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View Full Version : Blue Jays GM ripping Adam Dunn?



sammonator
06-19-2008, 11:16 AM
www.mlbtraderumors.com

Ohioballplayer
06-19-2008, 11:45 AM
Surprising, no, Dunner is not well respected.
But again if I say anything I will get a response of "You are just beating a dead horse"

Jack Burton
06-19-2008, 11:45 AM
Very interesting, I don't find it that hard to believe.

bounty37h
06-19-2008, 11:54 AM
Dont know why anyone is surprised, guess its the redrose glasses many wear. I have said many times many other teams and thier fans think that way, its just cause he is our guy right now that we think so much of him (for the record, I dont dislike him at all on our team, dont think we need to build the team around him or anything, but thats another story). I have yet to talk to a fan of any other team-that really knows baseball-that wants him at all, even if they could gt him in a steal. He just isn't desired, outside of Cincy.

HeatherC1212
06-19-2008, 12:16 PM
Hmmm, this could be fun if Adam gets into one of his hot streaks and hits several HRs and racks up quite a few RBIs during the Toronto series next week, LOL ;)

Old NDN
06-19-2008, 12:22 PM
Darn! I was hoping we could keep all those things about Dunn quiet until we could trade him.LOL. I guess we won't get much for him now (if we trade him) that the word is out.

JayBruce4HOF
06-19-2008, 12:25 PM
J.P. is a moron and a horrible General Manager.

Wonder if he knows how to spell OBP or, here's a crazy one: OPS. :lol:

Ghosts of 1990
06-19-2008, 12:25 PM
And honestly, in baseball circles, JP Ricciardi is a no one. What has he ever done in this game? Nothing.

Ricciardi will not be in baseball as long as Adam Dunn is or sustain the type of success.

Sorry but its the truth.

CarolinaRedleg
06-19-2008, 12:46 PM
Dunn's retort:

http://www.thelotd.com/ctrent/blog/2008/06/19/dunn_i_dont_know_the_clown


I don’t know the clown. I don’t know, and you can use the word ‘clown’ if you like.
I’ve seen it, I haven’t heard it. I really don’t care what one guy thinks, to be honest with you. If I’m a G.M., I don’t know that I’d go out of my way to discredit a player -- if I’m a player. He’s obviously won more than me, I guess. Or hasn’t. I know nothing about him.

The players didn’t say anything, it’s just some clown sitting in a front office pushing paper. I don’t play for any other reason than the guys here. I’ve said it all along, it doesn’t bother me what people say or think, especially someone outside of the organization who has no idea of anything that goes on here. He’s not even in our country. This guy’s in another country talking ****.

He felt like he needed to say it for some reason, I have no idea why and I don’t care. He could be in this clubhouse right now, I wouldn’t know. I couldn’t tell you his name, what he looks like – he’s got a big mouth, that’s all I know about him.

I read it, I just read it. I don’t care. He doesn’t have to use my name, use someone else’s name. I’m not taking up for him, because I don’t care about him. I don’t know who he is. I’m not going to sit here and defend someone who’s going to sit there and say I don’t care about baseball. It pisses me off, to be honest with you. He doesn’t even know me. If he knew me, fine. Say what you want. But this guy doesn’t know anything about me other than what he sees on whatever SportsCenter they have on up there. That’s it.

It pisses me off. It does. I just told you it pisses me off when people who have no idea what the **** goes on around here and then say – I don’t give a **** what people say in this clubhouse, I don’t care, besides what’s said in here. I don’t care about the perception people have of me, if anything happens, it looks like I ain’t going to Toronto. I can eliminate one team.

I’m not converting my dollars into looneys and twoneys just yet. They’re really good, actually.

NorrisHopper30
06-19-2008, 12:52 PM
LMAO, I love Dunn now.

Ahhhorsepoo
06-19-2008, 12:54 PM
I thought everyone outside of Cincy thought of Dunn as a huge threat, and big time power bat..

He's untradeable for what everyone wearing those glasses think we will get out of him..

PTI (pti)
06-19-2008, 02:33 PM
My thoughts:

1> LOVE Adam Dunn's response. Glad he didn't take the "high road."

2> JP Riccardi is clearly the foremost authority on baseball. I mean, he *IS* the same horse's anus that signed AJ Burnett and his 20 starts/year to a 5-year, $55 million contract....right??

3> Regardless, this does tell us something about Dunn's trade value. Don't hold your breath waiting on offers for Clayton Kershaw, Clay Buckholz, etc.

(oh - and cross the jays off the list of potential suitors)

Ahhhorsepoo
06-19-2008, 03:07 PM
sad thing is.. frank thomas is still better than dunn when he is healthy.. and he is making 13 mil at 40 years old.. so they have had better than dunn and still got rid of him.. dunn will command far too much for it to be beneficial for the reds to keep him.. and then he will realize that his value is somewhere around 7 or 8.. but in an overinflated market some AL team might offer 14-18 mil..

just saying the love for dunn is not where it should be.. and he is making far too much for what we get on the field.

LouisvilleCARDS
06-19-2008, 03:35 PM
At least Dunn told the prick off. Really, even if people don't like Dunn, why are you going to go off on someone you don't even know? Dunn could make a good amount of money as a platoon DH/LF player in the AL. You forget, what is a boatload of money to us, is money out of the couch for a Boston or New York.

Nuxhall41
06-19-2008, 03:46 PM
What a shock. Unlike fantasy baseball fans, the experts actually look beyond OBP and OPS, especially in a case like Adam Dunn where those metrics are completely misleading. Fantasy baseball fans continually attempt to convince us that Dunn is a star while not one other team in the league wants the guy.

ChatterRed
06-19-2008, 03:49 PM
Can't wait to play Toronto now.

demas863
06-19-2008, 03:56 PM
Dunn says he doesn' care what the Toronto GM says but then says "It pisses me off" - and then he states "he's not even from this country" and that makes a difference? His blathering response indicates to me that there may be an element of truth in what "the clown" said.

Ahhhorsepoo
06-19-2008, 04:19 PM
and Bleeds still wont admit that he isn't tradeable.. for anything over 75 cents on the dollar..

Jack Burton
06-19-2008, 04:31 PM
Immature response by Dunn.

Ahhhorsepoo
06-19-2008, 04:38 PM
dunn was trying to be funny.. instead he came off to some as a whiny baby..

BurgervilleBuck
06-19-2008, 04:45 PM
So did he read it?

bleedsred
06-19-2008, 04:49 PM
If I was a GM I would try to bring in a guy like Jose Guillen...rather than a no defense, weak arm, strike out prone Adam Dunn and I sure would't want sickly JR....our outfielders have VERY little trade value.

Blue
06-19-2008, 05:45 PM
Wow! Damning!*

Transitive property**: J.P. Riccardi belongs to the group "Baseball People". J.P. Riccardi does not like Adam Dunn. Ergo, "Baseball People" do not like Adam Dunn.

Finally Dunn Haters have facts and use logic to back up their opinions!***

* not actually damning
** not transitive property
*** they still do not

JayBruce4HOF
06-19-2008, 05:46 PM
If I was a GM I would try to bring in a guy like Jose Guillen...rather than a no defense, weak arm, strike out prone Adam Dunn and I sure would't want sickly JR....our outfielders have VERY little trade value.

hahahaahahahahhahaah

JayBruce4HOF
06-19-2008, 05:47 PM
Wow! Damning!*

Transitive property**: J.P. Riccardi belongs to the group "Baseball People". J.P. Riccardi does not like Adam Dunn. Ergo, "Baseball People" do not like Adam Dunn.

Finally Dunn Haters have facts and use logic to back up their opinions!***

* not actually damning
** not transitive property
*** they still do not

Exactly.

Wow this board is in bad shape. Wish we could get some ORG members sent over to act as tutors for this place. :laugh: ;)

JayBruce4HOF
06-19-2008, 05:53 PM
BTW: Dunn's current .OPS of .909 is higher than any current member of the Blue Jays. But, then again, OPS is just for "stat geeks." The Blue Jays obviously couldn't use that kind of production. If only we had Jose Guillen around... and I bet he'd pee on Dusty's desk for free... actually, maybe we should give the Royals a call after all! :evil:

Stephenk29
06-19-2008, 06:02 PM
Good to see he got fired up about something. J.P. has never been the sharpest knife in the drawer.

bleedsred
06-19-2008, 06:23 PM
Dunn is hitting .228. 13 million dollars for a guy who hits .228 and strikes out 37% of the time....plus plays a horrible LF with a candy arm. How many extra bases do Dunn and JR give up due to their weak arms....how many hits do they give up due to their terrible defense? He is not an answer to a contender, the Reds will get nothing of value for him in a contract year. Yes, Dunn hits HRs and walks a great deal...ops of .908 and SLG is .511...but he just has too many bad qualities to go with the good.

Nuxhall41
06-19-2008, 07:29 PM
The guy has been on the block for several seasons and no one wants him. Yet, in listening to the OBP fanatics, you would think teams should be beating down our door attempting to acquire the guy's services. But, they're not. And, you would think the Reds would never consider trading such a player. But, we know this is false as well.

I'll go with the apparent general consensus from GMs around the league and choose not to ignore the massive holes in Dunn's game in favor of simplistic and flawed metrics which ignore so many of the situational aspects and subtelties of the game.

TC81190
06-19-2008, 07:48 PM
The guy has been on the block for several seasons and no one wants him. Yet, in listening to the OBP fanatics, you would think teams should be beating down our door attempting to acquire the guy's services. But, they're not. And, you would think the Reds would never consider trading such a player. But, we know this is false as well.

I'll go with the apparent general consensus from GMs around the league and choose not to ignore the massive holes in Dunn's game in favor of simplistic and flawed metrics which ignore so many of the situational aspects and subtelties of the game.
Or it could be, yknow, because of the fact that Dunn has only a handful of months left on his contract, and no one is going to blow you away with an offer for a rent-a-player.

Blue
06-19-2008, 08:22 PM
The guy has been on the block for several seasons and no one wants him. Yet, in listening to the OBP fanatics, you would think teams should be beating down our door attempting to acquire the guy's services. But, they're not. And, you would think the Reds would never consider trading such a player. But, we know this is false as well.

I'll go with the apparent general consensus from GMs around the league and choose not to ignore the massive holes in Dunn's game in favor of simplistic and flawed metrics which ignore so many of the situational aspects and subtelties of the game.

This is so stupid. How did you become privy to the general consensus of GMs around the league? See my reference to the transitive property above.

Nuxhall41
06-19-2008, 09:42 PM
This is so stupid. How did you become privy to the general consensus of GMs around the league? See my reference to the transitive property above.

You left out several major truths from your transitive property equation:

1. The guy has been on the block for much of the past 2 & 1/2 years and has yet to be traded. A significant inference can be made from this fact.
2. You can add the opinion of the Reds front office to that of Toronto's. If they had as high of an opinion of Dunn as you, they would never consider trading him.

You could also use common sense, open your eyes and speak to a non-Reds fan on occasion. You will find that Riccardi's opinion is the pervasive one.


Finally Dunn Haters have facts and use logic to back up their opinions!***

Allow me to quote you: This is so stupid. So, you honestly believe people have no reason to be critical of Dunn's game? Are you kidding us? Do you actually watch the guy play?

fadetoblack2880
06-19-2008, 10:04 PM
dunn was trying to be funny.. instead he came off to some as a whiny baby..

Like some of the people on here whine when Dunn strikes out.

Blue
06-19-2008, 10:07 PM
1. The guy has been on the block for much of the past 2 & 1/2 years and has yet to be traded. A significant inference can be made from this fact.

No, it can't.


2. You can add the opinion of the Reds front office to that of Toronto's. If they had as high of an opinion of Dunn as you, they would never consider trading him.

He's still here.


Allow me to quote you: This is so stupid.

You can't just quote someone to make your point. It actually has to be applicable.


So, you honestly believe people have no reason to be critical of Dunn's game?

No, but I don't think its too much to think people should be able to see that he's not part of the problem with this team.


Are you kidding us?

No.


Do you actually watch the guy play?

With a jeweler's eye.

Stephenk29
06-19-2008, 10:15 PM
Is it possible the Reds feel the same way? If not then why have we heard nothing about contract talks?

Blue
06-19-2008, 10:23 PM
Is it possible the Reds feel the same way? If not then why have we heard nothing about contract talks?

I think its possible, perhaps probable, that they do not believe Dunn is a good candidate for the type of deal he is going to receive. I don't necessarily disagree with their assessment. I do think he'll get a really big deal from someone, though.

improbus
06-19-2008, 10:31 PM
Or it could be, yknow, because of the fact that Dunn has only a handful of months left on his contract, and no one is going to blow you away with an offer for a rent-a-player.

Bingo!

Nuxhall41
06-19-2008, 10:39 PM
No, it can't.

How cerebral.


He's still here.

Right, he's still playing for a terrible team which has been looking to unload the guy for 2 & 1/2 years.


You can't just quote someone to make your point. It actually has to be applicable.

It was perfectly applicable. It was stupid for you to insinuate that Adam Dunn detractors have no ammunition for their criticisms.


With a jeweler's eye.

Either that or a walk-inflated OBP distorted prism.

Blue
06-19-2008, 10:49 PM
Let me get this straight. If they want to trade him, then they don't think he's very good. If they don't trade him, then nobody wants him.

That way, you're right no matter what happens. Brilliant! I guess you can draw an inference from the fact they haven't traded him. You can draw whatever inference you want!

Nuxhall41
06-19-2008, 10:52 PM
Let me get this straight. If they want to trade him, then they don't think he's very good. If they can't trade him, then nobody wants him.


Fixed it for you.

Eric Davis
06-19-2008, 10:56 PM
Let me get this straight. If they want to trade him, then they don't think he's very good. If they don't trade him, then nobody wants him.

That way, you're right no matter what happens. Brilliant! I guess you can draw an inference from the fact they haven't traded him. You can draw whatever inference you want!


I think your assessment is somewhere in the middle here. The Reds know he's a square peg in a round hole on this team. In a perfect world they'd have a different type of player in over Dunn but they can't get just simply give him away while he's on short term contracts. He'll put up some strong slugging numbers that pretty much ties him to the Reds unless they were to get a top prospect in return for him. On the other hand no team in baseball is willing to give that up unless they get seriously desperate. Everyone else in the free world knows he can't play defense and he has no ability to hit for contact. He's a beer league softball player that has his moments but in the end he's just a bad fit for any small to mid size market team that doesnt use a DH.

OUReds
06-19-2008, 11:11 PM
Fixed it for you.

How tiresome. You simply cannot know how aggressively the Reds have shopped Dunn or what other teams have offered for him.

Blue
06-19-2008, 11:16 PM
Fixed it for you.

I forgot that you're privy to all this inside information.

TC81190
06-19-2008, 11:54 PM
Either that or a walk-inflated OBP distorted prism.
Yep. Those god-forsaken walks, bringing the team down.

Newman4
06-20-2008, 02:55 AM
Sounds like ol JP hit the Molson a little too much and then shot off his mouth or he's just ignorant. Very unprofessional regardless. Dunn then goes and rants and disrespects an entire country ("whatever Sportscenter they have on up there"). They should just fight on American Gladiators or the CBS Mixed Martial Arts thing. Either would be more exciting than the Reds/Jays series.

BurgervilleBuck
06-20-2008, 11:22 AM
I say so long as Dunn continues to be a liability in left field and runs like he's carrying a piano on his back that he's guilty until proven innocent.

bounty37h
06-20-2008, 11:27 AM
Or it could be, yknow, because of the fact that Dunn has only a handful of months left on his contract, and no one is going to blow you away with an offer for a rent-a-player.

Has he had only a few months left on his contrct for the last couple seasons now, cause the Reds have entertained offers over the years (not saying they tried to push him, but its ignorant to think they havent even been curious over the years, there has been reported no interest, at least for whatever the Reds thought they wanted to get for him). It is a catch 22 really; he is a good player, a value to our team, not worth as high as he will likely go after in the offseason, not as low as trade value to let him go too cheap, a case of stuck in the middle with you.....

Blue
06-20-2008, 05:40 PM
The biggest news here is that this may become the inspiration for a Canadian Bacon sequel.

JayBruce4HOF
06-20-2008, 05:42 PM
I say so long as Dunn continues to be a liability in left field and runs like he's carrying a piano on his back that he's guilty until proven innocent.

Newsflash: Dunn has been above-average defensively compared to the average left-fielder this season.

His defense has been fine this season.

Trace's Daddy
06-20-2008, 09:30 PM
I would like to see the Reds re-sign him.
Do you all think that Dunn could go to first base and Votto to left field? This may improve the defense a little.

bigred97
06-20-2008, 09:47 PM
Why does people always say Dunn has a bad arm? Wasn't he a college QB. I'm sure he grades out to at least an above average arm for a left fielder.

fadetoblack2880
06-20-2008, 09:51 PM
Why does people always say Dunn has a bad arm? Wasn't he a college QB. I'm sure he grades out to at least an above average arm for a left fielder.

Because they look for anything to cry and complain about when it comes to Dunn. Crybabies...

George Foster
06-20-2008, 11:20 PM
Newsflash: Dunn has been above-average defensively compared to the average left-fielder this season.

His defense has been fine this season.

defensive stats do not take into account balls that should of been caught. They fall in has hits, not errors. If you can't get to a ball you should of caught, they can't give you an error.

Blue
06-21-2008, 01:35 AM
defensive stats do not take into account balls that should of been caught. They fall in has hits, not errors. If you can't get to a ball you should of caught, they can't give you an error.

I'd say he's been average out there.

redsfanmia
06-21-2008, 08:19 PM
On ESPN.com (I would post the link if I knew how) Buster Olney wrote that what Ricardi said about Dunn has been echoed to him by many scouts from many different teams. I think reality of Dunn will come next season when he signs a one year deal with some team for 6 or 8 million.

OUReds
06-21-2008, 10:48 PM
I think reality of Dunn will come next season when he signs a one year deal with some team for 6 or 8 million.

The amusing thing is that I think you really believe this, and are not just trolling.

redsfanmia
06-22-2008, 08:59 AM
The amusing thing is that I think you really believe this, and are not just trolling.

I do believe it and will be shocked if he gets a long term deal with a team other than the Reds. The Reds have tried to trade and have found no takers. Doesnt that sent up a red flag to you?

OUReds
06-22-2008, 09:17 AM
No. Disregarding the fact that we have no idea how agressively Dunn has been shopped over the years, a vast number of players are discussed in trade talks every year that don't get traded. There are lots and lots of different reasons for this that have nothing to do a players overall production or their overall free agent value.

redsfanmia
06-22-2008, 09:31 AM
No. Disregarding the fact that we have no idea how agressively Dunn has been shopped over the years, a vast number of players are discussed in trade talks every year that don't get traded. There are lots and lots of different reasons for this that have nothing to do a players overall production or their overall free agent value.

Look I hope the guy gets a big contract I just hope its not with the Reds. He seems like a likable guy so good luck to him. I just dont think there is much of a market for him.

JayBruce4HOF
06-22-2008, 10:21 AM
Look I hope the guy gets a big contract I just hope its not with the Reds. He seems like a likable guy so good luck to him. I just dont think there is much of a market for him.

Dunn and Pat Burrell are going to EASILY be the best FA bats available this off-season (assuming neither re-ups before then with their respective clubs).

Dunn is entering his age-prime years and he will have NUMEROUS clubs vying for his services. You really have no idea whatsoever why Dunn has not been traded. Most likely it is because the Reds refuse to give up their best player unless they receive a boatload of cheap ML-ready talent in return and teams just aren't into making those types of trades these days.

Dunn will get a contract at a MINIMUM of 15-17 million per for AT LEAST 4 years. Guaranteed. As in, there is ZERO doubt. And he'll probably get a 5 year deal by leveraging teams against one another.

The Reds are really screwing up not signing this guy while they have the exclusive rights to him, because there will definitely be a bidding war once he hits the market.

redsfanmia
06-22-2008, 10:47 AM
Dunn will get a contract at a MINIMUM of 15-17 million per for AT LEAST 4 years. Guaranteed. As in, there is ZERO doubt. And he'll probably get a 5 year deal by leveraging teams against one another.

The Reds are really screwing up not signing this guy while they have the exclusive rights to him, because there will definitely be a bidding war once he hits the market.



Thankyou Grace I think your wrong. I just do not believe that Dunn will command that type of money but if another team want to pay him that then good luck to them and him but if its the Reds that contract will cripple this team.

Eric Davis
06-22-2008, 11:52 AM
Dunn and Pat Burrell are going to EASILY be the best FA bats available this off-season (assuming neither re-ups before then with their respective clubs).

Dunn is entering his age-prime years and he will have NUMEROUS clubs vying for his services. You really have no idea whatsoever why Dunn has not been traded. Most likely it is because the Reds refuse to give up their best player unless they receive a boatload of cheap ML-ready talent in return and teams just aren't into making those types of trades these days.

Dunn will get a contract at a MINIMUM of 15-17 million per for AT LEAST 4 years. Guaranteed. As in, there is ZERO doubt. And he'll probably get a 5 year deal by leveraging teams against one another.

The Reds are really screwing up not signing this guy while they have the exclusive rights to him, because there will definitely be a bidding war once he hits the market.


When a guy is currently hitting .220 I have a hard time believing they are screwing up when they aren't trying to actively sign him right now. But that's just my opinion.

Orodle
06-22-2008, 09:05 PM
When a guy is currently hitting .220 I have a hard time believing they are screwing up when they aren't trying to actively sign him right now. But that's just my opinion.

Yes but he does have a .384 OBP

Eric Davis
06-22-2008, 09:49 PM
Yes but he does have a .384 OBP

Yep he can clog a base with the best of them.

44Magnum
06-23-2008, 01:20 PM
Newsflash: Dunn has been above-average defensively compared to the average left-fielder this season.

His defense has been fine this season.

Defensive stats are misleading. They only track the balls you actually get to. Not the numerous ones you can't get to. Ryne Sandberg made a gold-glove career out of not gettting to balls.

Jack Burton
06-27-2008, 02:28 PM
Dunn served that Riccardi fellow a steaming plate of crow. Awesome series big fella.