PDA

View Full Version : Griffey is killing this team in the 3-hole



JayBruce4HOF
06-20-2008, 08:46 PM
HEY TOOTHPICK: Check out Junior's numbers this season. He might be the weakest 3-hitter in all of MLB right now. :rolleyes: :(

(And I'm a huge Junior fan, btw, but this is just absolutely ridiculous at this point)

zakthemack
06-20-2008, 09:09 PM
Hard to disagree with.

David Cubbedge
06-20-2008, 09:21 PM
What can we do about it other than complain? I mean, I totally agree, but fans can't influence a manager from making bad decisions whatsoever.

How many managers is this in a row that favors certain players?

JayBruce4HOF
06-20-2008, 09:26 PM
David, the last one I can remember is Davy Johnson.

muethibp
06-20-2008, 10:04 PM
Come on guys, he deserves this out of respect. (sarcasm x 1000000).

David Cubbedge
06-20-2008, 10:36 PM
per Redsland circa 2004:


Bud Light presents, “Real Reds of Genius.”

Real Reds of Genius.

Today we salute you, Mr. Criminally Insane Lineup Maker.

Mr. Criminally Insane Lineup Maker.

Every good manager makes the most of the weapons at his disposal. And then there’s you.

Paging Rich Aurilia.

You’ve posted so many head-scratchers on the clubhouse wall that beneath them there’s a pile of dandruff bigger than a rosin bag.

Head and shoulders above the rest, now.

Splitting up your contact hitters by batting them consecutively? Check. The league’s top double-play hitter? Third, of course. And the top slugger in the game? Fifth or sixth, obviously.

Sit him in Colorado.

Obviously you like some guys better than others. You’ve even mentioned giving a few of them a blow.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

So crack open an ice-cold Bud Light, Mr. Dojo of the Dugout. You may not be able to keep your players in line, but at least you can still put them wherever you want in the lineup.

Mr. Criminally Insane Lineup Maker.

Bud Light Beer. Anheuser-Busch, St. Louis, Missouri.

Sounds all too familiar. Switch Aurilia's name with Patterson and you are pretty set.

killuminati35
06-21-2008, 12:03 AM
It is rather frustrating to see Grif in the three hole, but I would imagine that Dusty isn't the only manager that would do this... My hunch is there are lots of managers in the league that would give it to him out of respect.

jmac
06-21-2008, 12:09 AM
It is rather frustrating to see Grif in the three hole, but I would imagine that Dusty isn't the only manager that would do this... My hunch is there are lots of managers in the league that would give it to him out of respect.

Yes, many would do the same.

David Cubbedge
06-21-2008, 12:11 AM
Griffey should respect himself and tell Dusty he needs to move down in the order.

bleedsred
06-21-2008, 12:12 AM
Would he hit 3rd for the Cubs? That would be interesting to find out with Lou being the manager and all....though I hate the Cubs and wouldn't want to see JR get his ring with them....

bleedsred
06-21-2008, 12:16 AM
Griffey should respect himself and tell Dusty he needs to move down in the order.


Many top athletes in all sports have trouble stepping aside when their time is about up....I don't think JR really believes he should move out of the 3 spot on this team( I think he should bat 6th or 7th depending on who is in the lineup)

Krawhitham
06-21-2008, 01:44 AM
Dusty moved him around early in the season, I do not get why he is not doing it now. Jr has no bat speed because he can not pivot on his bad knee. They should put him on DL to heal the knee but it seems they are afraid it would kill any chance of trading him.

Look at it like this, the way he is playing right now is killing any chance they could trade him

Javy Pornstache
06-21-2008, 01:57 AM
Dude, Griffey is a hall of famer, dude, and I know what it's like to play with a hall of famer, dude; I played with Hank Aaron. Hank Aaron once told me, dude, "Dude, you better protect me well in the lineup, dude, I'm Hank Aaron", and you know what? He was Hank Aaron, dude. Hank Aaron told ME that, dude. I played with Hank Aaron. And Hank Aaron told me hall of famers are three-hitters, dude. So if Griffey needs to be wheeled out to right field to take his position, and he needs wheeled to the batter's box, dude, then that's fine with me, dude. He'll be wheeled out there, and he'll be hitting three, just cause he's one of the guys that's played this game that will be a first ballot hall of famer, just like Hank Aaron, dude. He's got 600 home runs, one of only five guys not named Hank Aaron to hit at least 600, dude, and one of six guys including guys named Hank Aaron that's hit 600, dude. So I think he hits third, dude. I played with Hank Aaron.

JayBruce4HOF
06-21-2008, 02:03 AM
Dude, Griffey is a hall of famer, dude, and I know what it's like to play with a hall of famer, dude; I played with Hank Aaron. Hank Aaron once told me, dude, "Dude, you better protect me well in the lineup, dude, I'm Hank Aaron", and you know what? He was Hank Aaron, dude. Hank Aaron told ME that, dude. I played with Hank Aaron. And Hank Aaron told me hall of famers are three-hitters, dude. So if Griffey needs to be wheeled out to right field to take his position, and he needs wheeled to the batter's box, dude, then that's fine with me, dude. He'll be wheeled out there, and he'll be hitting three, just cause he's one of the guys that's played this game that will be a first ballot hall of famer, just like Hank Aaron, dude. He's got 600 home runs, one of only five guys not named Hank Aaron to hit at least 600, dude, and one of six guys including guys named Hank Aaron that's hit 600, dude. So I think he hits third, dude. I played with Hank Aaron.

:lol:

Fon Duc Tow
06-21-2008, 11:47 AM
Dude, Griffey is a hall of famer, dude, and I know what it's like to play with a hall of famer, dude; I played with Hank Aaron. Hank Aaron once told me, dude, "Dude, you better protect me well in the lineup, dude, I'm Hank Aaron", and you know what? He was Hank Aaron, dude. Hank Aaron told ME that, dude. I played with Hank Aaron. And Hank Aaron told me hall of famers are three-hitters, dude. So if Griffey needs to be wheeled out to right field to take his position, and he needs wheeled to the batter's box, dude, then that's fine with me, dude. He'll be wheeled out there, and he'll be hitting three, just cause he's one of the guys that's played this game that will be a first ballot hall of famer, just like Hank Aaron, dude. He's got 600 home runs, one of only five guys not named Hank Aaron to hit at least 600, dude, and one of six guys including guys named Hank Aaron that's hit 600, dude. So I think he hits third, dude. I played with Hank Aaron.

:D

Jr's Boy
06-21-2008, 12:56 PM
Really irrelevant now where he bats at this point.Thread should have read ''Most of the players are killing this team in the lineup''.

Orenda
06-21-2008, 01:06 PM
Not too bring up the Hamilton trade, but the other day I was thinking about this. Even if Josh Hamilton was still with the reds, there would be no way he would have been leading the league in RBI's because he would have to hit ahead or behind of the Griffey, Phillips, Dunn combo for probably the better half of the season. I've tried to remain neutral with Dusty but he's pretty much giving away outs by putting Patterson, and Janish anywhere near the top of the lineup. I'm seriously considering bumping the Rays or the Angels over the Reds, for my rooting interests, because at some point I have to relize that my favorite team is going nowhere and is being run by fools.

Slyder
06-21-2008, 01:34 PM
Duhhhsty continues to show why he was a bad fit and one of the worst managers to begin with. I have said all year he continues to misuse about everyone. Using Cordero with 4+ run leads, Weathers, Griffey, and his favorite man love Corey Patterson.

I wouldnt be anywhere near as hard on Duhhhsty if he were showing ANY signs of improving but it took him 2.5 months of craptastic play from Corey to "realize" something many here have known since CP was signed.... he doesnt do anything with the bat besides make outs. Granted Cabrera and Hairston have at least saved some shred of dignity at SS by actually hitting but when those two and Kepp have been out he's ran Paul Janish out there in the 2 hole which has been better than Patterson but thats not saying much.

Griffey continues to hit 3rd as he is having the worst year of his career on a bum knee, slowing/stopped bat, sick, and pressing for 600 out of "respect". While people with decent production capabilities like Dunn, Edwin, Votto are stuck low in the order even during hot stretches. That is no way to handle a lineup. Not to mention major in game gaffs like the 18 inning debacle that might have pushed Harang over the edge, wasting Harang's excellent start of the season as Duhhsty's lineups didnt produce anything than a quick game.

His ingame gaffs are well known. Your job as manager is to maximize the oppertunities for runs, Duhhhsty all year continues to show that he is the exact opposite. Would we be leading the division at this point with a competant manager with this team? Probably not, but we certainly wouldnt be looking up at the freaking Pittsburgh Pirates and the Houston Astros.

The Roster was far from ideal left by Krivsky but you magnify the flaws by giving Duhhsty Baker the keys to the car with his boy being given undeserved oppertunity after oppertunity to try and save some face that he isnt completely worthless in the box.

Griffey012
06-21-2008, 07:31 PM
Really irrelevant now where he bats at this point.Thread should have read ''Most of the players are killing this team in the lineup''.

Agreed, who else are we gonna put in the 3 hole? It's pretty much pick your poison lately.

NeilHamburger
06-21-2008, 07:53 PM
One interesting name to consider for the middle of the order next year (especially if Dunn and Griffey walk giving the reds tons of cash) is Milton Bradley. I know he's not exactly personable, but he'd give the reds a good switch hitter, would improve defense in left, and in this park would hit 25 home runs if healthy.

Next year:

Hairston Cf
Kepp SS
Bradley Lf
Votto 1st
Bruce rf
Phillips 2nd
EE third
catcher

I think would be a pretty good lineup, and probably less expensive then the one we have now.

44Magnum
06-23-2008, 01:31 PM
Jr. has been killing the Reds for years now! Dunn too!

757690
06-25-2008, 11:02 PM
From C. Trent

"You think about lineups -- a lot. Trust me, you do. I hear it all the time.

Me? Well, not so much. It's a part, but I don't believe a huge part of the game, really, for the most part, even a maximized lineup (statistically speaking) wouldn't be that much different from the real outcome.

Thanks to the lineup analysis on Baseball Musings, I've been able to do a little work with the Reds lineups. I did this with the DH, because, I was doing last night's lineup first. Basically, the difference between the absolute best lineup, statistically speaking (based on on-base percentage and slugging) is about half-a-run better than the absolute worst. Over the course of a season, that's about 81 runs and conventional wisdom is that 10 runs equal one more win -- so that's eight wins a season. That is a huge difference, but that's counting the absolute worst, the real run differential is much less.

So, anyway, I plugged in last night's lineup here -- and the best lineup, according to the math (with 4.875 runs per game), is: Bruce, Dunn, Griffey, Votto, Keppinger, Phillips, Bako, Janish and Hopper. The biggest difference between that and the real lineup is Bruce leading off instead of Hopper, Dunn, Griffey and Janish were in the same spot, Votto was up one, Phillips was down two, Keppinger up one and Bako up two.

What's interesting is the complaint I hear the second most (behind Corey Patterson leading off, which even Baker has realized is ridiculous) is Griffey batting third. According to this tool, the 10 most productive lineups all have Griffey batting third. 24 of the top 30 most productive lineups have Griffey batting third -- the other six have Keppinger there."


Keep complaining about Griffey hitting third. No need to let facts get in the way of a good rant. :rolleyes:

durl
06-26-2008, 12:03 AM
Good info. C. Trent's stuff sounds really interesting. I'm sure it won't change the doubter's minds, however.