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View Full Version : Anyone who thinks Arroyo's arm isn't damaged is kidding themselves.



Kingspoint
06-24-2008, 07:33 PM
Arroyo's arm is worn out.

He has the "tired arm".

The only solution is for his arm to be shut down for the season. Shutting it down for last Winter wasn't enough time. He needs the rest of the season and next Winter.

Harang is in the same boat.

captainmorgan07
06-24-2008, 07:43 PM
Arroyo's mechanics are crap right about now. Way way way to many breaking balls to hitters. Not enough fastballs mixed in. His breaking stuff has no movement on it at all. I agree shut him down, put him on the DL for a broken belly button he needs rest.

bleedsred
06-24-2008, 07:50 PM
Shades of Jimmy Haynes and Eric Milton(Chris Welsh).......lol, oh well, I guess Bronson will be in Cincy next year.

CWRed
06-24-2008, 07:50 PM
He never pitches inside any more. So that breaking ball is not as effective because he uses it too much.

Jefferson24
06-24-2008, 07:53 PM
So much for trading him. We couldn't give him away at this point.

Griffey012
06-24-2008, 07:56 PM
he did have 1 solid start on 3 days rest this year. to me he seems like he just goes out and is on cruise control, kinda like he has lost his one pitch at a time focus

Kingspoint
06-24-2008, 07:56 PM
Put him on the 30-day DL, and give Fogg his next several starts, and then go from there.

There are still millions and millions of dollars left on Arroyo's contract, so putting him out there every day like they have been doing is asinine. Shut him down so that he possibly has some value in 2009.

Everyone here saw how long it took for Majewski's arm to get better. It took two years. That's normal for trying to fix a "tired arm".

Be smart Castellini and protect what's left of your investment of Arroyo and shut him down. He's worthless at the moment.

Eric Milton was never this bad, but the difference between Milton and Arroyo, is that if Arroyo can get his arm substantial enough rest, then he can become the pitcher he was back in 2006.

Kingspoint
06-24-2008, 07:59 PM
he did have 1 solid start on 3 days rest this year. to me he seems like he just goes out and is on cruise control, kinda like he has lost his one pitch at a time focus

It's not about one good start here or there, regardless of how many days rest....anyone can do it once in a while. It's about the fact that he's been getting POUNDED ALL YEAR, not just hit, but POUNDED. He is by far the worst starting pitcher in the National League when it comes to opposing OPS, but it's only because his arm is "tired". Shut him down before he trys to correct it and ends up blowing a labrum or something.

HeatherC1212
06-24-2008, 08:01 PM
Something is definitely wrong with Bronson. He couldn't find his fastball for anything tonight and that's what killed his breaking stuff. He looked way off and now Majewski is basically going to take the brunt of this game which is a shame for him (and the other guys) because the bullpen doesn't deserve to get taxed tonight because a starter can't get himself going early. :(

And I'm sorry but Toronto is NOT that good of a team to have ELEVEN runs before the third inning. :eek:

Kingspoint
06-24-2008, 08:02 PM
And they better start giving Harang some rest.

Harang, too, is getting POUNDED compared to what he has done in the past. His opposing OPS is normally around .700 with last year it being around .670, but this year it's ballooned up to the .840's......that's Miltonesque, not Harang. Again, it's only because he's led the league in innings pitched each of the last three years, and he's up there again this year. He needs some rest...a missed start would be nice...I don't care if they let Affeldt pitch and they lose because it's more important that Harang is healthy in 2009 when the REDS will have a legitimate shot at a playoff spot.

Griffey012
06-24-2008, 08:22 PM
It's not about one good start here or there, regardless of how many days rest....anyone can do it once in a while. It's about the fact that he's been getting POUNDED ALL YEAR, not just hit, but POUNDED. He is by far the worst starting pitcher in the National League when it comes to opposing OPS, but it's only because his arm is "tired". Shut him down before he trys to correct it and ends up blowing a labrum or something.

I was just throwing that out there because it is comical. The fact he has got hit hard almost all year after being abused the previous two years, and then one of his few good starts was on three days rest. I wasnt trying to refute every else's point.

Kingspoint
06-24-2008, 08:26 PM
I was just throwing that out there because it is comical. The fact he has got hit hard almost all year after being abused the previous two years, and then one of his few good starts was on three days rest. I wasnt trying to refute every else's point.

It was odd that he had a good outing on 3 day's rest.

It's too bad that this happened to Arroyo and Harang because if it hadn't we'd be challenging for a playoff spot in 2008 not 2009.

Now though, because of Arroyo and Harang, I'm not so sure now if the REDS can contend even in 2009 unless they are able to trade Dunn and/or Junior for a #3 starter.

Fullboat
06-24-2008, 08:58 PM
Who caught for Arroyo in his last three starts? Maybe he is more comfortable with Ross.

redlegs7089
06-24-2008, 09:26 PM
we should of traded him last year for yunel and jo jo reyes last year

George Foster
06-24-2008, 09:33 PM
It is being reported on the ticker by ESPN that it is the most earned runs by a starting pitcher in one inning since 1900....that is 108 years dude....

Griffey012
06-24-2008, 09:37 PM
It was odd that he had a good outing on 3 day's rest.

It's too bad that this happened to Arroyo and Harang because if it hadn't we'd be challenging for a playoff spot in 2008 not 2009.

Now though, because of Arroyo and Harang, I'm not so sure now if the REDS can contend even in 2009 unless they are able to trade Dunn and/or Junior for a #3 starter.

It's not time to count them both out for this year and 2009, it may take a 15 day dl sting for Arroyo, maybe the entire season, but as for Harang. The dude is a hoss who throws efforlessly, he is a front of the rotation tank that can handle that type of workload. He also hasn't typically been pushed ahead and started on short rest, he may possibly just need a start skipped or a short dl (rest) trip. Also, I have read where Harangs mechanics have been off since the relief appearance so hopefully it is not so much a tired arm, but something mechanically. Which could also be because of a tired arm, but I'm hoping for the better

Layney
06-24-2008, 10:11 PM
Arroyo is done...he just seems to be drowning.

ChatterRed
06-24-2008, 10:47 PM
Bronson is sucking so he won't be traded. ;)

NarrowStairs
06-25-2008, 04:07 AM
It is being reported on the ticker by ESPN that it is the most earned runs by a starting pitcher in one inning since 1900....that is 108 years dude....


I think that says more about Dusty than Bronson. Starting pitchers get shellacked to the tune of 5+ runs in one inning all the time. Every other manager in the past century was smart enough to see they didn't have their stuff and got their guy out of there.

Moosie52
06-25-2008, 07:39 AM
It is being reported on the ticker by ESPN that it is the most earned runs by a starting pitcher in one inning since 1900....that is 108 years dude....

:yikes: The Cubs have won the Series since then.

durl
06-25-2008, 08:48 AM
At least we weren't playing Toronto in a "hitter's park."

Jack Burton
06-25-2008, 11:49 AM
He's not injured, he just isn't any good. Serves up meatballs.

Kingspoint
06-25-2008, 08:07 PM
And don't blame Harang's problems on the 6-inning stint he had in San Diego.

Harang was getting pounded before that game. He's a heck of a pitcher and sometimes can put together a few innings, but he also has a tired arm.


Today is yet another in a season-long example of Harang and Arroyo's arms being tired. They both need a DL stint...Arroyo for 30 Days and Harang for 15 days.

Bring up Maloney and Fogg and let them have some starts while they get their arms some rest.

Root Down
06-25-2008, 08:51 PM
Bring up Maloney and Fogg and let them have some starts while they get their arms some rest.

Fogg... Now there is a scary thought.

Griffey012
06-25-2008, 09:38 PM
It all doesn't matter. Tonight win or lose has put a magnifying glass on why were are under .500 and not a good team.

1. We get on the early and get a 5-0 lead.
2. We immediately let them back in.
3. We can't score anymore.
4. We can't make the big play on a nice play by Dunn to conserve the lead
5. We can't get a clutch hit for the life of us.
6. 3 pitches, 3 singles....

And I missed a 4 inning chunk in the middle of the game

Kingspoint
07-04-2008, 03:30 PM
And they better start giving Harang some rest.

Harang, too, is getting POUNDED compared to what he has done in the past. His opposing OPS is normally around .700 with last year it being around .670, but this year it's ballooned up to the .840's......that's Miltonesque, not Harang. Again, it's only because he's led the league in innings pitched each of the last three years, and he's up there again this year. He needs some rest...a missed start would be nice...I don't care if they let Affeldt pitch and they lose because it's more important that Harang is healthy in 2009 when the REDS will have a legitimate shot at a playoff spot.

It's refreshing to see Castellini/Jockety make the decisions to not only correct their mistake of bringing up Thompson and sending him down, but to also recognize that Harang needs to skip a start or two, also, and thus preserve him for 2009. With the missed start (or two) Harang will be back to having an Opposing OPS around 7.00 the rest of the year.

I'm guessing that since Arroyo hasn't been given a rest, that he's about to be traded. Giving him a rest might hint to other teams that the REDS believe something is wrong, when in reality, I'm certain that they know that his arm is extremely tired and that they can't afford to give him a rest. The rest he needs (30 days or more) would put him past the trading deadline, and if they just skipped a start or two for him, and after the missed start(s) he still pitched poorly, it's unlikely they could get anything for him then. So, right now (as soon as possible) is the best time to trade him.

I haven't read any of the posts or seen any rumors about a REDS deal in the works, but I do think Arroyo will be gone within 2 weeks.

RedsFanInBama
07-04-2008, 05:10 PM
Bronson now at 12 consecutive scoreless innings. I don't know what the deal is with him physically. It's been a very weird season. Atrocious outings and then very good outings. Worst outing of his career in Toronto, now two consecutive very good outings. And yes, the Indians and Nationals aren't very good hitting teams, but neither are the Blue Jays.

Excuse me - he allowed one earned against Cleveland. So 12 innings with one earned run rather than 12 scoreless.

ChatterRed
07-04-2008, 06:43 PM
Whoever started this thread appears to be kidding themself. LOL.

lidspinner
07-05-2008, 10:52 AM
Bronson has never been very consistent. He has never been this bad imo, but he also has never been this good as he has been in times. When he's on, he is on.....I would love to keep him as a #4 or 5.....I hate to trade him for squat. If we can land a catcher for him I would call it a deal and move on. Bronson is one of my favorite all time reds for 1 reason......the man has never met a stranger, if you see him anywhere, I dont care if its at wal mart, he will talk your ear off about baseball, life, and everythign in between. he is 1 of the easiest people I have ever talked to and that includes my own freinds. But that dont win championships.

Kingspoint
07-05-2008, 09:10 PM
Bronson now at 12 consecutive scoreless innings. I don't know what the deal is with him physically. It's been a very weird season. Atrocious outings and then very good outings. Worst outing of his career in Toronto, now two consecutive very good outings. And yes, the Indians and Nationals aren't very good hitting teams, but neither are the Blue Jays.

Excuse me - he allowed one earned against Cleveland. So 12 innings with one earned run rather than 12 scoreless.


Bronson said himself, and Baker agreed, that Bronson pitched poorly against Cleveland, that he hung numerous pitches over the plate, and the he "got lucky". So, with that as a "known entity", all that you say about him sometimes pitching well just isn't true. But, if it's good enough to fool some people then now is the time to trade him, as it's more likely that in his next start he gives up at least 1 run per inning pitched.