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OnBaseMachine
06-27-2008, 11:38 AM
Scouting Reports: The Other International Prospects
June 27th, 2008 · No Comments

By Kiley McDaniel

Something you can look for as an ongoing theme for these scouting reports is that I’ll mention a prospect that’s mostly projection, that would get $500,000 to $750,000 in most years, but this year will get that price pushed up by $250,000 to $500,000, due to demand. The supply is good this year, with a strong crop of talent, but the demand, especially at the top of the talent scale, is higher.

I suppose at some point, when every top player has their perceived value boosted that much, the effect may not be teams overpaying, but that we’re just seeing the new market.

That would be the market correction that competition brings to offset the bargains that the old July 2nd market had; the bargains that enticed all the teams to open up shop in Latin America in the first place.

For an economic look at this phenomenon, check this article, and stay tuned for another article about it here in the next few days.

As mentioned in the opening for the Michel Inoa report, the competition for second best July 2nd prospect is between power-hitting right fielder Rafael Rodriguez and dynamic five-tool center fielder Yorman Rodriguez, who has drawn Carlos Beltran comparisons. Most (including myself) prefer Yorman Rodriguez, and in lieu of a picture of him, we’ll run a Beltran picture.

Read on for a breakdown of the rest of the top 15 Latin American prospects, along with one sleeper, and subtitles that are the color of money, all after the jump…

The traditional powers, like the Yankees, Red Sox, Mariners, Mets, and Braves, seem to be in on all the big talents, while new major players I referenced in the last article include teams like the Padres, Royals, A’s, Reds, and Giants. There’s obviously still some teams just below the “major player” level that are doing good things and may make a splashy signing or two, but the focus in this article is on the top guys and major players.

So, Who Else Is Getting Paid?

2. Yorman Rodriguez, CF, Venezuela
Yorman Rodriguez has been touted as the top position player in this class for some time. His selling point is a rare combination plus-plus speed and plus-plus raw power. He’s a five-tool talent with an outstanding frame, athleticism, and defensive tools, but like most July 2nd hitting prospects, he gets a wide range of reviews on his ability to hit.

The common refrain on a raw bat are heard with Rodriguez: lunges at the ball, trouble identifying breaking pitches, trouble with high level stuff, questionable approach, and 5 o’clock power (batting practice only). Some players grow out of it, some never adjust, so the team that gets Rodriguez believes in his ability to make adjustments.

He has all the elements of a star centerfielder. He’s been compared to Miguel Cabrera for his powerful bat and Venezuelan bloodlines, but more athletic comparisons like Cesar Cedeno, Eric Davis, or a right-handed hitting Carlos Beltran seem more apt. That being said, Rodriguez, or any of the hitters below him, could go to the GCL and hit .180 for three seasons and make everyone look stupid, but those kind of comparisons let you know why teams will pay him and that the tools are for real.

There are rumors that since his agent has stopped shopping him around that a deal has been struck and the Reds are rumored to be that team—another team new to being a major player on the international scene, spending $2.0 million in March on 16 year old power-hitting OF Juan Duran, and have already spent $3-4 million this season on pre July 2nd prospects. The Yankees, Mariners, Red Sox, and Cardinals are all heavily interested and Rodriguez figures to get a bonus between $2.5 million and $3.0 million, which would top Miguel Cabrera’s $1.9 million bonus in 1999 as the highest in Venezuelan history.

3. Rafael Rodriguez, RF, Dominican Republic
The rumor that won’t die about Rodriguez is that the Giants have offered him a $2.5 million bonus and he’s stopped shopping himself with a deal already done. It does seem like $2.5 million is a little rich for Rodriguez versus industry perception (about $1.5 million), but there is a lot of competition for players at the top and if the Giants like him, giving a game-ending offer weeks before the deadline to lock him up is a sound strategy. He’ll be eligible to sign when he turns 16 on July 13th.

As for the tools, Rodriguez has a projectable 6′5, 200 lb frame that one international scouting director compared to Dave Winfield in BA’s breakdown of Rodriguez. His right-handed bat draws praise for it’s power to all fields and his raw strength but there are serious questions about hitability, approach, balance, loop in the swing, and ability to hit off-speed stuff. None of those things are abnormal for a 16 year old, but all of them in a package that will cost seven figures causes many to pause.

The bat speed, loft, big power, and athleticism are all there, so if you buy his makeup and ability to adjust, there’s a ton of raw ability to work with; it’s easy to see why the Giants would like him. It does sound like more teams than not think there’s a lot of Joel Guzman in there, too; none of the other stuff matters if he can’t hit, and that’s a legitimate question at this point.

4. Adis Portillo, RHP, Venezuela
Portillo is the consensus second-best pitcher in this year’s crop, and as mentioned in the July 2nd Notes article he is getting bid up due to the “didn’t get Inoa” effect. His profile is along the lines of most high-profile July 2nd pitchers: projectable body (6′3 with room for a lot of bulk), average now velocity (88-92), a feel for a curveball and changeup, a loose arm, and a workable delivery (though it has some effort). Like many other Latin prospects, scouts are sold on his frame due to big feet, hands, and fingers; a good indicator that a frame that will grow.

The downside was alluded to in the upside: he’s not polished and no one is really sure what his next 2-3 years of development will look like. Everything except his average velocity and projectable frame is below-average right now, including his control, which worries more than a few scouts. There also is an issue common with pitchers of Portillo’s profile: a disconnect between bullpen performance and game performance, similar to how young hitters having trouble converting BP power into games.

The team that likes Portillo the most will be banking (as usual) on his makeup and ability to improve as lots is needed before the upper levels of pro baseball. All those negatives said, Portillo is still an easy $500,000 prospect, and many would pay up to about $800,000, with a few likely willing to go to seven figures. The aforementioned affect could push Portillo as high as $2.0 million, the indicated asking price by some sources. The number that sounds more likely is $1.5 million, with teams like the Cubs, Mariners, Royals, Phillies, and Padres all in the mix, with San Diego the rumored landing spot—another new power on the Latin front.

5. Julio Morban, CF, Dominican Republic
Morban is more of a baseball player-type prospect than the above hitters, that are more star potential athletes. Morban swings a consistent bat from the left side and has above-average speed and solid athletic actions in center field packed into a compact 5′11, 178 pound frame.

Despite not owning a big, projectable frame, Morban has a bat that almost every Latin insider can buy, along with athleticism that brought projections of a million dollar bonus before the market jumped a few notches. Morban’s swing has some issues to be ironed out like any 16 year old’s swing would, but with advanced hitability, a sound approach, solid mechanics, and enough bat speed to create some power, he may own the safest bat in this class. He also sports an above-average arm and glove in center, and while some think he may add power and eventually move to right field, the profile is that of an everyday player either way.

The Mariners, Mets, Red Sox, and Yankees have been tied to Morban. Baseball America has a profile and a projection that jives with what I’ve heard: $1.1 to $1.2 million from the Mariners.

6. Luis Domoromo, OF, Venezuela
As mentioned above with Morban, Domoromo is a change of pace from the Rodriguez’s, as more of a baseball player, with a bat teams believe in to varying degrees, but projects for more of a solid-average everyday profile and will likely end up at a corner outfield position.

Some scouts say he’s a little mechanical and others think he has more of an average bat from the right side, but in comparison to the other bats on this list, being a little stiff and having a low-end projection of an average major league bat is a welcome relief for the risk averse. Domoromo has a solid frame that projects for plus power, and as you might expect, he is more of pull-oriented hitter that doesn’t always convert BP power into game situations. He has a smooth, fluid swing and emerging power, but won’t get big money due to the lack his lack of elite athleticism or star potential. He’s fine in the outfield given the profile and his arm seems good enough for right field to be a longterm fit.

Domoromo was described to me a few weeks ago as a low-upside player who would get about $700,000, and as you might expect, he’s heavily rumored, including in his BA profile, to sign for seven figures. BA suggests a deal is done with the Padres for $1.2 million, and that’s more conviction than I have about any of the rumors I’ve heard about Domoromo, so I’ll go with that.

The Borderline Millionaires

7. Yeicok Calderon, RF, Dominican Republic
The Skinny: This is the first spot where a million dollar pay day isn’t assured, where rankings will diverge, and where information is both harder to come by, and harder to trust as smokescreens and misinformation are common at this juncture in the process.

Calderon is a power prospect with a potent bat from the left side and right field tools that have drawn Cliff Floyd comparisons. One source even said his tools are on par with Rafael Rodriguez, but with a bat from the left side, and with better hitability. Calderon can turn on good fastballs in game situations, but is a bit rough around the edges with a rudimentary approach and power primarily to his pull side. He is athletic enough to play right field and has a strong arm that may get him a seven figure pay day from the right team.

The Yankees are known to have interest, but from this point on, you probably won’t see a correct bonus/team prediction, and you could put any of the big Latin spending teams on any of the listed players and probably be right.

8. Alvaro Aristy, SS, Dominican Republic
Latin shortstops are a successful group as a whole, and sought-after commodity every July 2nd. The top one looks this year looks to be a 6′0, 165 pound, defense-first prospect in Alvaro Aristy.

Aristy has the best chance to play shortstop in the bigs from this class, with sure hand and plus range, but scouts aren’t sure if his bat is enough to get him to the big leagues. With a thin build and lack of power, Aristy’s bat doesn’t stand out, but he’s elicited comparisons to Brewers SS Alcides Escobar, and may follow the same career path, with steady, incremental improvement at the plate. One insider likes his bat speed and projection and thinks he could be grow into his frame and become “Alfonso Soriano light.”

For the moment, he’s not a whole lot to get excited about, but neither was Escobar when I saw him in the Florida State League last year, and now he’s almost a big leaguer. That just might be enough to justify the $1 million price tag that’s he’s rumored to be getting, with a number of teams on him and San Diego, yet again, being the rumored front runner.

9. Giancarlo Arias, IF, Dominican Republic
Aristy, Arias, and the next prospect, Jose Osoria, have been lumped together as similar prospects that currently play shortstop and should get comparable bonuses, but Arias is a different sort of player than Aristy and Osoria.

Arias is a stocky six footer with a plus arm and impressive left-handed bat that many project to move off of shortstop in the near future. His hands are good but his foot speed is below-average prompting projections that he could stick at second base, although third base seems like a better profile, given his frame. Still, one source likes his footwork and hands and thinks Arias’ unusually-proportioned body may play at shortstop longer than expected, like Juan Uribe, especially given his plus arm.

Arias is talked about in the same $1 million neighborhood as Aristy, and BA reports he’s likely sign with the Yankees, for a bonus as high as $1.4 million. While that wouldn’t be shocking, that number is higher than anything I’ve heard on Arias.

10. Jose Osoria, SS, Dominican Republic
As mentioned above, Osoria has a similar profile to Aristy, as a glove-first shortstop with limited offensive upside. So, you can copy the words from Aristy’s report, adjust down a hundred thousand dollars or so and be pretty much on point with Osoria’s skills.

Beyond that, anything more than general information on Osoria has been tough to come by as he hasn’t been easy for scouts to get a look at. Considering that there were a number of teams showing interest in Osoria earlier in the process, it’s almost a lock that he’s got a deal already done, but trying to figure out which team is anyone’s guess.

The “Could Be” Millionaires

11. Miguel Flores, OF, Venezuela
Flores is an unheralded prospect that has shown an oustanding hitting ability for scouts, but due to questionable power, has an uncertain professional profile. If you follow the draft, you know that an uncertain profile as an outfield ‘tweener, without enough speed for center, or enough power to be a solid starter at a corner spot, leaves you in limbo and usually ends up costing the player a lot of money.

Flores shows an advanced hitability that some say could make him a .300 hitter someday. It goes without saying that not all project Flores’ bat so favorably, that he’s a little rough around the edges, he’s 16, blah, blah, blah, you get the idea. His power is more gap-to-gap and is based on hard, consistent contact moreso than freakish bat speed or strength, but most think it can be average, producing about 15 homers annually in the end. Flores has deceiving average speed that will play in a corner outfield spot and should be able to garner a bonus of $700,000 or more.

12. Gustavo Pierre, 3B, Dominican Republic
Pierre is another of the Dominican shortstops, but basically no one thinks he can stick there; third base and left field are the two most common positional projections. His bat shows flashes, but how good his bat has looked varies from one game, BP session, or workout to another. He has sound swing mechanics, but showing an inability to consistently perform in game situations has some teams worried about his long-term prospects.

At 6′2 and 175 pounds, Pierre has some projection left in his frame, quick feet, and some power potential. He has been connected to the Blue Jays for some time, and figures to get a bonus in the $600,000 to $700,000 range.

13. Ismael Guillon, LHP, Venezuela
Guillon is a big 6′3 lefthander that hasn’t been seen a whole lot, but has a good amount of polish for a 16 year old. He has a larger, more filled-out frame compared to fellow 6′3 Venezuelan hurler Portillo, and throws from the left side, but has a lower upside. Guillon works in the high 80s with his fastball and lacks bigtime projection, but has 3 workable pitches and some feel for pitching. He figures to get a bonus of about $700,000 as well.

14. George Drullal, 3B, Dominican Republic
Drullal is another under-the-radar prospect with some enticing upside. Drullal shows a solid swing, some power potential, and enough athleticism to profile as a pro third baseman. He is more raw than the hitting prospects listed above him, but not that many 16 year old hitters look much like they do at 25, so at this juncture of the rankings, you’re looking for elements you want to bet on. The Mets are heavily rumored to be the team that likes Drullal the best and his bonus could be as high as $700,000, which apparently is the buzz price for players of this ability.

15. Francisco Valdivia, RHP, Nicaragua
Not too many teams have seen Valdivia, the only Nicaraguan on this list, in game conditions, so there will be a lot of projecting to be made on a small sample of performance. But, as said above with Drullal, you can’t be too picky with the now-abilities of 16 year olds.

Valdivia has an extremely projectable frame at 6′3 and 180 pounds, and shows an average fastball with good sink from a three-quarters arm angle that has hit 92. He is raw, lacking high-level instruction and experience. Predictably, he lacks refinement in his secondary pitches and has mechanics that need to be reworked, but has a high risk/reward ratio.

The Sleeper

Christian Betancourt, C, Panama
Betancourt actually turned 17 before July 2nd, so he was eligible to sign before the rest of these prospects and inked a deal with the Braves in March for $600,000. Betancourt owns an underrated mix of tools that are solid across the boards and don’t jump out at first glance. More importantly, for such a young player, he also shows the kind of work ethic and attitude you like to see from young backstops—he just gets it done.

http://www.saberscouting.com/2008/06/27/july2ndothers/

OnBaseMachine
06-27-2008, 11:46 AM
Wow. I hope that is true about the Reds signing Yorman Rodriguez. It's also interesting to read the Reds have already spent 3-4 million dollars on Duran and others. Duran supposedly got two million...I wonder who got the next highest bonus?

RedsFanInBama
06-27-2008, 11:47 AM
That makes me happy. So much young talent to be had in Latin America. We need to keep being a player in that market.

Grande Donkey
06-27-2008, 11:50 AM
That would be amazing but would almost guarantee that there is no way the Reds will get Inoa.

OnBaseMachine
06-27-2008, 11:56 AM
While I would love to have Inoa, just give me one of Rodriguez and Inoa and I'll be happy. What's interesting is the articles states the Reds have spent an additional one to two million dollars on other international prospects not named Juan Duran. I'd like to know who they are. Usually BA reveals a list of International signings in July.

Redeye fly
06-27-2008, 11:58 AM
That same website seemed to almost guarantee that the A's were going to get Inoa. They've been on him the longest. I'd definitely take a kid who could come anywhere close to a Carlos Beltran or Eric Davis type CFer.

OnBaseMachine
06-27-2008, 12:00 PM
That same website seemed to almost guarantee that the A's were going to get Inoa. They've been on him the longest. I'd definitely take a kid who could come anywhere close to a Carlos Beltran or Eric Davis type CFer.

Yep. The A's have long been the favorite to land Inoa but the Reds have made a strong push for him lately.

RedsFanInBama
06-27-2008, 12:04 PM
How much is Inoa going to demand?

I would like to think we could use the Cueto/Volquez/Soto pitch to him in addition to the big bucks. Of course I'm just happy we're spending at all. Castellini seems pretty adamant about winning here. Money talks.

RedsManRick
06-27-2008, 12:05 PM
Rodriguez sounds an awful lot like Corey Patterson... Let's hope ED is the better comp.

Grande Donkey
06-27-2008, 12:05 PM
What kind of budget did Cast give the Scouts? 3-4 already with another 2.5-3 rumored to Rodriguez. That is 7 million already (If Yorman is indeed a future Red). Sounds like Cast gave them a 10 million dollar budget. That is some dedication right there.

Joseph
06-27-2008, 12:06 PM
There is at least light at the end of the tunnel based on youth and willingness to sign talent by BCast and co.

OnBaseMachine
06-27-2008, 12:07 PM
How much is Inoa going to demand?

I would like to think we could use the Cueto/Volquez/Soto pitch to him in addition to the big bucks. Of course I'm just happy we're spending at all. Castellini seems pretty adamant about winning here. Money talks.

Probably anywhere from 4.25 to 5 million for Inoa. Maybe more if the Reds/A's/Rangers get into a bidding war for him.

Grande Donkey
06-27-2008, 12:07 PM
Rodriguez sounds an awful lot like Corey Patterson... Let's hope ED is the better comp.Hearing Miguel Cabrera's bat in CF with plus-plus speed does not make me think of Corey Patterson at all.

OnBaseMachine
06-27-2008, 12:10 PM
Baseball America says Rodriguez's raw power and speed rate as a 70 on the 20-80 scale.

lollipopcurve
06-27-2008, 12:13 PM
wow

For as much as the Krivsky firing disillusioned me with the ownership group, if the Reds start reeling in multiple top-rated kids in the Latin American market, I'll be back on board.

RedsManRick
06-27-2008, 12:13 PM
Hearing Miguel Cabrera's bat in CF with plus-plus speed does not make me think of Corey Patterson at all.

The common refrain on a raw bat are heard with Rodriguez: lunges at the ball, trouble identifying breaking pitches, trouble with high level stuff, questionable approach, and 5 o’clock power (batting practice only). Some players grow out of it, some never adjust, so the team that gets Rodriguez believes in his ability to make adjustments.

That's what I'm referring to. That does not sound like Miggy to me. Obviously it's a question of his ability to develop a more refined approach. Though I remember those same conversations about Wily Mo Pena, for example, having 50 HR potential if he could learn to hit breaking stuff and lay off the crap outside of the zone -- he never did.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be thrilled to have the kid in the organization. I just don't get too excited over super raw talents. There are more guys out there with massive speed and/or power than there are guys who can put the baseball bat on major league pitching with any regularity.

OnBaseMachine
06-27-2008, 12:17 PM
He sounds a lot like Carlos Gomez right now but with the ability to develop into much more.

lollipopcurve
06-27-2008, 12:17 PM
That's what I'm referring to. That does not sound like Miggy to me. Obviously it's a question of his ability to develop a more refined approach. Though I remember those same conversations about Wily Mo Pena, for example, having 50 HR potential if he could learn to hit breaking stuff and lay off the crap outside of the zone -- he never did.

Very common assessment of 16 year old hitters from Latin America, as the author points out. You're signing tools -- it's an inexact science.

Grande Donkey
06-27-2008, 12:18 PM
Very common assessment of 16 year old hitters from Latin America, as the author points out. You're signing tools -- it's an inexact science.exactly.

OnBaseMachine
06-27-2008, 12:31 PM
Even if the Reds don't sign Inoa, adding two 16-year old outfielders like Juan Duran and Yorman Rodriguez would be an incredible haul for the organization. Add in the other kids that were signed for one or two million dollars plus Yonder Alonso and Zach Stewart and other draftees and overall it would be a major haul of young talent into the organization.

HBP
06-27-2008, 01:54 PM
Great news. While my enthusiasm is curbed because they've never seen top notch pitching, you have to admit that the front office is making some big statements by giving out these bonuses (if the Rodriguez signing is indeed true).

redsmetz
06-27-2008, 02:04 PM
Yonder and Yorman! Yikes!

Steve4192
06-27-2008, 02:56 PM
Hearing Miguel Cabrera's bat in CF with plus-plus speed does not make me think of Corey Patterson at all.

That's because you are thinking of Corey Patterson the major leaguer, not Corey Patterson the teenage prospect.

I remember reading a whole lot of Eric Davis and Andruw Jones comparisons for Corey back in 1998-1999. He went 3rd overall for the same reason people are talking up Yorman ... ridiculous athletic tools. Unfortunately, like a lot toolsy prospects, Corey never developed the skills needed to channel those physical tools into production on the field. Yorman poses the same kind of risk.

Grande Donkey
06-27-2008, 03:01 PM
That's because you are thinking of Corey Patterson the major leaguer, not Corey Patterson the teenage prospect. I remember reading a whole lot of Eric Davis and Andruw Jones comparisons for Corey back in 1998-1999. He went 3rd overall for the same reason people are talking up Yorman ... ridiculous athletic tools.He was never supposed to have Cabrera like power though. If I remember correctly it was more like 20-25 home run power. Yorman has better defensive tools also.

lollipopcurve
06-27-2008, 03:10 PM
Yorman poses the same kind of risk.

Folks have to remember that these kids are classic high-risk high-reward. Some will flame out quickly and spectacularly. Price of doing business.

SunDeck
06-27-2008, 03:21 PM
He’s a five-tool talent

Oh, no.

Grande Donkey
06-27-2008, 03:30 PM
Oh, no.
I know what you are saying but 5 tool talent is usually a complement.

OnBaseMachine
06-27-2008, 03:41 PM
Trent has added it to his blog:

Report: Reds have a deal with 16-year old CF
Friday, June 27, 2008, 02:40 PM EST

Saberscouting.com is reporting there's a rumor the Reds have a deal with Venezuelan CF Yorman Rodriguez, the top positiong player available in this year's crop of 16-year old in Latin America.

Rodriguez, as well as pitcher Michel Inoa, and other Latin American players can be signed on July 2.

Rodriguez is said to be generating talks of a signing bonus of $3 million. Add that to the $2 million give to Juan Duran this spring and the Reds are one of the biggest boons to the economies of Latin America since Keith Hernandez and Willie Wilson were buying produts from South America in the early 80s.

http://www.thelotd.com/ctrent/blog/2008/06/27/report_reds_have_a_deal_with_16year_old_cf

Grande Donkey
06-27-2008, 04:44 PM
That would be amazing but would almost guarantee that there is no way the Reds will get Inoa.Wait a minute. Didn't the Rodriguez rumors about already having a team start a while before the Inoa and Reds talk start? If the Reds struck a deal with Yorman a while ago and the Inoa talks started recently then maybe they are still going after Inoa also.

SunDeck
06-27-2008, 04:46 PM
I know what you are saying but 5 tool talent is usually a complement.

Really? So many things I don't know.

Redeye fly
06-27-2008, 05:21 PM
Wait a minute. Didn't the Rodriguez rumors about already having a team start a while before the Inoa and Reds talk start? If the Reds struck a deal with Yorman a while ago and the Inoa talks started recently then maybe they are still going after Inoa also.

I imagine they are still going after him, but all indications seem to be pointing to Inoa going to the A's. Hopefully they can pull something out of their hat though.

SMcGavin
06-27-2008, 05:24 PM
That's because you are thinking of Corey Patterson the major leaguer, not Corey Patterson the teenage prospect.

I remember reading a whole lot of Eric Davis and Andruw Jones comparisons for Corey back in 1998-1999. He went 3rd overall for the same reason people are talking up Yorman ... ridiculous athletic tools. Unfortunately, like a lot toolsy prospects, Corey never developed the skills needed to channel those physical tools into production on the field. Yorman poses the same kind of risk.

All true, but the risk involved in signing a kid like Yorman is just cash. The risk with drafting a player like him high in the first round is much higher, the price might be similar but the opportunity cost is way higher. I like what the Reds have done this year, taking some "sure things" (Alonso, Zach Stewart) in the draft while also picking up some toolsy potential stars like Duran and Rodriguez. I LOVE the new plan of sliding some money into the minor league system.

OnBaseMachine
06-27-2008, 05:30 PM
Wait a minute. Didn't the Rodriguez rumors about already having a team start a while before the Inoa and Reds talk start? If the Reds struck a deal with Yorman a while ago and the Inoa talks started recently then maybe they are still going after Inoa also.

Yep. The reports of the Reds gaining ground on Michel Inoa came out after the reports of Rodriguez reaching an agreement with a team. My guess is the Reds are still in the race for Inoa but the A's seem to be the favorite at this point.

Grande Donkey
06-27-2008, 05:35 PM
Yep. The reports of the Reds gaining ground on Michel Inoa came out after the reports of Rodriguez reaching an agreement with a team. My guess is the Reds are still in the race for Inoa but the A's seem to be the favorite at this point.That's what I was figuring as well.

RedsManRick
06-27-2008, 05:45 PM
Perhaps the money being spent on Rodriguez is coming out of the budget allocated to pursuing Inoa. Once we capped out, we turned our attention to the next guy on the list.

Superdude
06-27-2008, 05:59 PM
Where would Duran have ranked on this list?

OnBaseMachine
06-27-2008, 06:10 PM
Where would Duran have ranked on this list?

Scouts said he was like having the number one overall pick. However Inoa has been described as being a once-in-a-decade type pitcher so my guess is Duran would have been number two behind Inoa.

RedsManRick
06-27-2008, 06:17 PM
Scouts said he was like having the number one overall pick. However Inoa has been described as being a once-in-a-decade type pitcher so my guess is Duran would have been number two behind Inoa.

"Once-in-XXXX" is probably my biggest sports pet peeve. (I know it's not your quote OBM) It seems like there's a once in a decade player every single year.

Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz. 6 HOF pitchers who all pitched in the same 2 decade time frame. Now we've Johan Santana, CC Sabathia, Brandon Webb, Felix Hernandez, etc.

It is almost always a gross overstatement.

OnBaseMachine
06-27-2008, 06:18 PM
One other thing. I remember a quote from Mario Soto saying that Duran was expected to get around five millions dollar in July but the Reds were able to get him for two million since they found a loophole in the rules and were able to sign him earlier. That huge money figure alone tells you how highly thought of Duran was.

GoReds33
06-27-2008, 06:41 PM
That's a great move. It gives us another top 10 prospect, and a guy who would have been a first round pick. If the Reds get Iona too, which is a very big longshot, they would establish themselves as the new, and very rich kid in town down there.

redhawk61
06-27-2008, 07:48 PM
How do you even create a top 10 prospect list with Yorman, if true, and Duran along with the other guys.

in no order:
Alonso(if signed)
Fraizer
Yorman
Duran
Mez
Stubbs
Valaika
Stewart
Roenicke
Lotzkar
Cumberland
Wood
Fransisco
Waring
Rosales
Maloney
etc...

it goes on and on and on with prospects any team would LOVE to have....and maybe even Iona!!!!:eek:

Blue
06-27-2008, 07:56 PM
How long before this guy can suit up for the DSL or VSL Reds?

edabbs44
06-27-2008, 09:38 PM
One other thing. I remember a quote from Mario Soto saying that Duran was expected to get around five millions dollar in July but the Reds were able to get him for two million since they found a loophole in the rules and were able to sign him earlier. That huge money figure alone tells you how highly thought of Duran was.

Why would he have signed for $2MM then? There's something wrong with that story.

OnBaseMachine
06-27-2008, 09:39 PM
Why would he have signed for $2MM then? There's something wrong with that story.

He may have wanted to sign quicker. I don't know. Maybe Soto was exaggerating but I remember him saying something like that. I'll try to look for the exact quote later.

Sea Ray
06-28-2008, 08:57 AM
Sure a wildly swinging 16 yr old is a big risk but I think the greater risk is the 93 MPH throwing 16 yr old (Inoa) .

OnBaseMachine
06-28-2008, 11:49 AM
Here's the quote from Soto. I was off a little but he still says Duran was looking for five million.

From Fay's blog:

Volquez on Duran

Edinson Volquez has seen Juan Duran play. He watched the 16-year-old outfielder the Reds signed in a tournament the Dominican.

"I saw him hit two two home runs in two at-bats," Volquez said. "I saw him throw from the outfield. Unbelievable. I've never seen someone like that. He's a little skinny right now. But he's going to be really good."

Duran is 6-foot-6, 190 pounds.

Mario Soto has not seen Duran play but he heard all about him.

"In my country, they said he was asking for $5 million," Soto said.

The Reds reportedly got him for $2 million. For their sake, hopefully it will work out better than their last splurge on a Latin American player. They paid Alejandro Diaz $1.6 million in 1999. He never made it above Double-A. What's worse spending all that money on Diaz busted the budget and kept the Reds from signing a guy named Miguel Cabrera.

http://beta.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=blog07

_Sir_Charles_
06-28-2008, 01:31 PM
I'm just simply stunned by the job the Reds are doing in the dominican and other latin areas. If the Reds can continue this they can drastically improve thier farm system VERY quickly. Not that it was in a bad state already. *grin*

Lockdwn11
06-28-2008, 01:37 PM
Sure a wildly swinging 16 yr old is a big risk but I think the greater risk is the 93 MPH throwing 16 yr old (Inoa) .

Is it really that much more of a risk than drafting a high school arm or bat in the first round? I mean those kids are 17-18 year old .

dougdirt
06-28-2008, 01:44 PM
Is it really that much more of a risk than drafting a high school arm or bat in the first round? I mean those kids are 17-18 year old .

Yeah, a little bit. High school arms in the first round aren't the risk they once were. They are being protected quite a bit more now than they used to be. As for high school bats in the first round, they aren't generally that unsafe. Now when we get to a 16 year old pitcher and paying them Top 3 money, its a much bigger issue. It would be like drafting a high school junior for starters. How many times is the best HS arm in the country coming into the senior season still the best HS arm in the country at the end of the senior season? Its been a while since its happened.

OnBaseMachine
06-28-2008, 01:45 PM
Doug, have you heard anything else? I saw where you said you were going to send out some emails.

lollipopcurve
06-28-2008, 01:47 PM
How many times is the best HS arm in the country coming into the senior season still the best HS arm in the country at the end of the senior season? Its been a while since its happened.

Yeah, so far as I can remember Beckett was the last HS junior to have very big buzz like that.

dougdirt
06-28-2008, 01:50 PM
Doug, have you heard anything else? I saw where you said you were going to send out some emails.

Surprisingly I have yet to get an email back from anyone I sent it to yet. Usually two of the guys I emailed get back to me within a few hours, tops.... so maybe they are just busy lately.

OnBaseMachine
06-28-2008, 02:13 PM
I'm searching for some more stuff on Yorman Rodriguez and so far have found this older tidbit on him:

Outfielder Yorman Rodriguez has a lot of buzz in advance of July 2, and several international scouting directors have predicted he could receive the highest bonus in Venezuelan history. Rodriguez’ two best tools are his power and speed, as both grade as 70s on the 20-80 scouting scale.

Rodriguez’ body is different than Dominican outfielder Ezdra Abreu’s (also a July 2 candidate), and he projects to hit for more power. Rodriguez is stocky, strong and athletic where Abreu is taller and wiry strong. Both are certainly names to watch in advance of this summer.

HumnHilghtFreel
06-28-2008, 03:41 PM
I must say this is awesome. The front office is stepping up big time and I can't help but appreciate the effort and money being put into the scouting dept. under Cast.

Hopefully these signing are a big step in developing a pipeline of sorts.

NorrisHopper30
06-28-2008, 04:10 PM
The only bad thing is we have to wait ~5 years + to see these kids play.

GoReds33
06-28-2008, 04:43 PM
The only bad thing is we have to wait ~5 years + to see these kids play.Or we could go in two years and see them in Dayton.:)

NorrisHopper30
06-28-2008, 04:45 PM
Or we could go in two years and see them in Dayton.:)

I might not be able to afford the gas to drive to Dayton in 2 years :D

GoReds33
06-28-2008, 07:20 PM
I might not be able to afford the gas to drive to Dayton in 2 years :DGood point.:)

klw
06-28-2008, 07:23 PM
Is it really that much more of a risk than drafting a high school arm or bat in the first round? I mean those kids are 17-18 year old .

And a lot cheaper than Matsuzaka's posting fee.

AmarilloRed
06-30-2008, 01:36 AM
It will be even more important to land Rodriguez now that Inoa has signed with the A's. I hope it is true we turned our attention to him after losing out on Inoa.

TRF
06-30-2008, 08:55 AM
It will be even more important to land Rodriguez now that Inoa has signed with the A's. I hope it is true we turned our attention to him after losing out on Inoa.

I thought Inoa can't be signed until July 2nd.

edit: just read the Inoa thread. nevermind.

OnBaseMachine
06-30-2008, 03:40 PM
I've got a bad feeling about Yorman Rodriguez. Saber scouting reported the Reds are rumored to have agreement in place with Rodriguez but Baseball America or no one else has reported it yet. I hope the Reds do get him but I don't know right now.

dougdirt
06-30-2008, 03:47 PM
I've got a bad feeling about Yorman Rodriguez. Saber scouting reported the Reds are rumored to have agreement in place with Rodriguez but Baseball America or no one else has reported it yet. I hope the Reds do get him but I don't know right now.

Well its because its all speculation. The Reds have been rumored to be the front runners on him for a while and recently his buscone stopped shopping him around saying they had an agreement in place with a team.

Grande Donkey
06-30-2008, 03:48 PM
Doug, do you think the Reds get him?

dougdirt
06-30-2008, 03:54 PM
Doug, do you think the Reds get him?

Yeah I do. No one has been linked with him even half as much as we have and he has stopped being shopped around. That generally seals the deal.

Grande Donkey
06-30-2008, 03:59 PM
Good deal.

Sea Ray
07-01-2008, 09:36 AM
Doug, do you think the Reds get him?

When will we hear for sure, July 2nd?

15fan
07-01-2008, 09:46 AM
Baseball America says Rodriguez's raw power and speed rate as a 70 on the 20-80 scale.

So he's a fast Wily Mo Pena then?

princeton
07-01-2008, 10:21 AM
So he's a fast Wily Mo Pena then?


Fast Wily and the Big Juan. Wasn't that a Bronson/Eastwood movie?

let me ask everyone: if Bowden had signed Juan Duran, would he not have been in Cincinnati already? at least for batting practice, some good quotes from Baker and some good press from the locals, that's a given... but we'd also be debating whether he'd get Reds time this year or next.

things are much quieter without JimBo

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2008, 11:25 AM
Fast Wily and the Big Juan. Wasn't that a Bronson/Eastwood movie?

let me ask everyone: if Bowden had signed Juan Duran, would he not have been in Cincinnati already? at least for batting practice, some good quotes from Baker and some good press from the locals, that's a given... but we'd also be debating whether he'd get Reds time this year or next.

things are much quieter without JimBo

Absolutely. And my guess is Duran would be in Billings or Dayton.

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2008, 11:26 AM
BTW, a poster on Saber Scouting said Yorman can't sign until August. That's the first time I've heard that.

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2008, 12:02 PM
After reading a new Baseball America update I feel better about the Reds chances of getting Rodriguez. The Mariners seemed to be the main competition for him but BA says the Mariners are no longer serious contenders. BA also says that people are hiding a bunch of players so there will be plenty of other players who sign for big bonuses that we probably have never heard of before.

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2008, 01:09 PM
It's been increased substantially this season - by about $500,000, according to the same industry sources - but still falls in the bottom third. And that's not enough to allow them to get in on the bidding for players like Portillo . . . or Dominican righthander Michael Inoa (expected to get at least $4 million from the Athletics), Venezuelan outfielder Yorman Rodriguez (who has been compared to Miguel Cabrera) or Dominican outfielder Rafael Rodriguez (who is likened to Vladimir Guerrero).

By contrast, Seattle spent $4.2 million last year. Cincinnati is poised to give $4 million to just two players this year. The Yankees, Mets and Red Sox seemingly spend whatever it takes. The average per team layout is pegged at around $1.8 million . . . and going up every year. "It's really exploding," one scout says.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/20080701_High-end_Latin_prospects_not_in_Phillies__budget.html

princeton
07-01-2008, 01:17 PM
The Yankees, Mets and Red Sox seemingly spend whatever it takes. [/url]

if that statement is true, then three teams disagree strongly with our valuation of these players.

I remember when we outbid the Yankees for Alejandro Diaz. The Yankee guy thought that we were crazy. We were.

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2008, 03:18 PM
In the Baseball America chat they mentioned the A's, Giants, Padres and Reds as the most likely biggest spenders in this years signing period.

Grande Donkey
07-01-2008, 03:31 PM
It's been increased substantially this season - by about $500,000, according to the same industry sources - but still falls in the bottom third. And that's not enough to allow them to get in on the bidding for players like Portillo . . . or Dominican righthander Michael Inoa (expected to get at least $4 million from the Athletics), Venezuelan outfielder Yorman Rodriguez (who has been compared to Miguel Cabrera) or Dominican outfielder Rafael Rodriguez (who is likened to Vladimir Guerrero).

By contrast, Seattle spent $4.2 million last year. Cincinnati is poised to give $4 million to just two players this year. The Yankees, Mets and Red Sox seemingly spend whatever it takes. The average per team layout is pegged at around $1.8 million . . . and going up every year. "It's really exploding," one scout says.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/20080701_High-end_Latin_prospects_not_in_Phillies__budget.htmlTh is is what I was talking about the other day. Getting 2 of the very top talents in Latin America for the price of one. 16 year old position players aren't the same risk as 16 year old pitchers (although they are still a big risk). It is smart money management.

bucksfan2
07-01-2008, 03:49 PM
This is what I was talking about the other day. Getting 2 of the very top talents in Latin America for the price of one. 16 year old position players aren't the same risk as 16 year old pitchers (although they are still a big risk). It is smart money management.

Or one might say it is slightly crazy to spend a total of $4M on two 16 year old Latin Americans. I hope this didn't sound wrong but it is a huge huge risk whether they pan out then you have to take into consideration cultural differences and language barriers. It isn't necessarily a bad thing but when you consider Wily Mo Pena broke the original latin american record and Johnny Cueto signed for $2500 you have to have done a very very good job of scouting.

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2008, 03:57 PM
Baseball America also says the Reds and Padres are among the most active teams. BA said they'll probably reveal a list of signings tomorrow so we should get a pretty good idea of who the Reds get. It does look like Yorman Rodriguez can't sign until August though...

Grande Donkey
07-01-2008, 04:01 PM
Baseball America also says the Reds and Padres are among the most active teams. BA said they'll probably reveal a list of signings tomorrow so we should get a pretty good idea of who the Reds get. It does look like Yorman Rodriguez can't sign until August though...Why won't he be able to sign? To young?

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2008, 05:29 PM
Why won't he be able to sign? To young?

Yep. He probably doesn't turn 16 until August.

Homer Bailey
07-01-2008, 05:41 PM
Yep. He probably doesn't turn 16 until August.


Doesn't turn 16?

I thought he was 16 going on 17?

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2008, 05:45 PM
Doesn't turn 16?

I thought he was 16 going on 17?

Nope. He's 15 going on 16.

Homer Bailey
07-01-2008, 05:48 PM
Nope. He's 15 going on 16.

Geez. That's some serious youth.

Grande Donkey
07-01-2008, 05:51 PM
Nope. He's 15 going on 16.Do you know this for a fact or are you just assuming? I haven't seen his DOB in any articles.

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2008, 05:58 PM
Do you know this for a fact or are you just assuming? I haven't seen his DOB in any articles.

The reason he can't sign until August is because of his age. He's got to be 16 years old to sign which is why the Reds can't sign him right away. Once he turns 16 in August he can sign on that day.

Grande Donkey
07-01-2008, 06:22 PM
The reason he can't sign until August is because of his age. He's got to be 16 years old to sign which is why the Reds can't sign him right away. Once he turns 16 in August he can sign on that day.Not that I'm doubting you but is his DOB anywhere out there?

Grande Donkey
07-01-2008, 06:22 PM
From Baseball America

Who are the Yankees targeting?

Ben Badler:Giancarlo Arias, a thick-bodied shortstop from the Domincan. He's going to move off shortstop, probably to third base. I talked to a scout yesterday who wasn't that high on him, but who said he'd try Arias out at catcher because he thought his best tool right now was his arm. They might go after Yorman Rodriguez, but I'm not convinced of that. They'll probably be in on a bunch of other mid- to high-six figure guys, like Yeico Calderone and Flores.

Lets hope that they don't go after Yorman.

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2008, 06:40 PM
Not that I'm doubting you but is his DOB anywhere out there?

I don't know where you can find it. His age would be the only reason he can't sign until August.

Grande Donkey
07-01-2008, 06:42 PM
I don't know where you can find it. His age would be the only reason he can't sign until August.Is the guy on Saber Scouting the only one to mention it? I don't know how much I would trust him. Guess we will find out tomorrow though!

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2008, 06:53 PM
Is the guy on Saber Scouting the only one to mention it? I don't know how much I would trust him. Guess we will find out tomorrow though!

Baseball America mentioned it too.

Steve4192
07-01-2008, 07:28 PM
Getting Rodriguez & Duran is nice and all, but what I'd really like to see is the Reds get some solid quantity to go with the quality that those two guys bring to the table. When it comes to 16 year old prospects, getting a bunch of good ones is more important than landing one or two big ticket guys.

Even the studliest of 16 year old prospects are unlikely to ever become major league contributors, so you have to buttress their signings with some quality depth.

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2008, 07:34 PM
Getting Rodriguez & Duran is nice and all, but what I'd really like to see is the Reds get some solid quantity to go with the quality that those two guys bring to the table. When it comes to 16 year old prospects, getting a bunch of good ones is more important than landing one or two big ticket guys.

Even the studliest of 16 year old prospects are unlikely to ever become major league contributors, so you have to buttress their signings with some quality depth.

It's been reported that the Reds spent an additional 1-2 million on prospects other than Duran. They could sign plenty of prospects with that amount of money.

cincyinco
07-01-2008, 09:22 PM
If the reds sign both these guys that's an influx of top talent. Add to that yonder and its like the reds had 3 first round picks. That's a steady addition of potential elite prospects who could end up in Bruce territory as far as status when its all said and done. Given that our system has graduated some of the talent it already has, its nice to know that we are going to continue to stockpile the farm with fantastic talents. It may not materialize' its a risk, sure. But if you've done your homework, its a risk you should take every time.

15fan
07-01-2008, 10:18 PM
things are much quieter without JimBo

yet not nearly as quiet as they were under his successor.

RedlegJake
07-01-2008, 11:15 PM
Getting Rodriguez & Duran is nice and all, but what I'd really like to see is the Reds get some solid quantity to go with the quality that those two guys bring to the table. When it comes to 16 year old prospects, getting a bunch of good ones is more important than landing one or two big ticket guys.

Even the studliest of 16 year old prospects are unlikely to ever become major league contributors, so you have to buttress their signings with some quality depth.

The Reds are doing just what you want. Look at the DSL roster. Lots of players have been signed and are getting their chance. Duran and Rodriguez just signal a new higher level of involvement.

OnBaseMachine
07-02-2008, 12:06 PM
SaberScouting says the Reds/Yorman Rodriguez rumors won't go away and the rumor is he can't sign for a few more weeks when he turns 16, but no one knows his exact date of birth.

NorrisHopper30
07-02-2008, 12:21 PM
SaberScouting says the Reds/Yorman Rodriguez rumors won't go away and the rumor is he can't sign for a few more weeks when he turns 16, but no one knows his exact date of birth.

No one at all? :D

OnBaseMachine
07-02-2008, 12:28 PM
No one at all? :D

I'm sure his parents do. :D

The only known fact is he's 15 years old and will turn 16 in either late July or sometime in August.

Grande Donkey
07-02-2008, 01:31 PM
Hopefully the Yankees dont throw any big bucks at him in the coming weeks.

OnBaseMachine
07-02-2008, 02:09 PM
The way Kiley of SaberScouting is talking, we might have some news of some Reds signings later.

OnBaseMachine
07-03-2008, 07:27 AM
It looks like Yorman Rodriguez turns 16 on August 15th according to a poster on SaberScouting.

In related news, the Reds sign a SS from a Bani, DR yesterday for $300,000 dollars. That's all the info we have right now.

OnBaseMachine
07-03-2008, 07:29 AM
And the Cincy Enquirer confirms thats:

Next on the Reds' radar is Yorman Rodriguez, an outfielder from Venezuela. He can't sign until he turns 16 in August.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080703/SPT04/807030370/1071

OnBaseMachine
07-03-2008, 05:04 PM
“Tomorrow,” Buckley said, “we’ll start looking for some new (players).”

August should be a good test. A 15-year-old named Yorman Rodriguez, from Venezuela, celebrates his birthday that month. He’s supposed to be the next Miguel Cabrera. And two executives said they believe he has already agreed to a deal with Cincinnati. The Yankees keep pushing, though, sweetening their offer, doing anything to change the trend that could so affect them.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-inoa070308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

According to a Yankees website, they have dropped out of the Yorman Rodriguez sweepstakes.

cincyinco
07-03-2008, 05:14 PM
Sounds more and more like we got this kid. Keep your fingers crossed, but that's great news. I'm impressed.

Brutus
07-03-2008, 05:19 PM
“Tomorrow,” Buckley said, “we’ll start looking for some new (players).”

August should be a good test. A 15-year-old named Yorman Rodriguez, from Venezuela, celebrates his birthday that month. He’s supposed to be the next Miguel Cabrera. And two executives said they believe he has already agreed to a deal with Cincinnati. The Yankees keep pushing, though, sweetening their offer, doing anything to change the trend that could so affect them.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-inoa070308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

According to a Yankees website, they have dropped out of the Yorman Rodriguez sweepstakes.

Regardless of whether or not Yorman Rodriguez lives up to his billing, the bigger story here, as you've mentioned in this thread, is the changing mentality we're seeing by the Reds to be aggressive in these types of markets. The fact they're willing to spend the money on this kid and threw $5 mil at Inoa is a trend we can't help but love.

RedsManRick
07-03-2008, 05:35 PM
Regardless of whether or not Yorman Rodriguez lives up to his billing, the bigger story here, as you've mentioned in this thread, is the changing mentality we're seeing by the Reds to be aggressive in these types of markets. The fact they're willing to spend the money on this kid and threw $5 mil at Inoa is a trend we can't help but love.

It's interesting to me that teams are finally starting to realize that $5M on huge potential prospects is money better spent than on replacement level relief pitching and no-bat up the middle defenders.

OnBaseMachine
07-03-2008, 08:41 PM
The Reds signed Dominican shortstop Junior Arias, a strong, high-waisted athlete.

"He's a good-looking kid," one scout said last week. "He's got good hands, he's a good athlete and he's got good body control. He's a line-drive hitter—it's a short stroke to the ball."

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/international-affairs/2008/266438.html

Blitz Dorsey
07-03-2008, 10:46 PM
It's interesting to me that teams are finally starting to realize that $5M on huge potential prospects is money better spent than on replacement level relief pitching and no-bat up the middle defenders.

Or even $3 mil spent on a no-hit CF who no one else wanted.

Superdude
07-03-2008, 11:23 PM
You've gotta love that Arias has a high waist. That certainly bodes well for his future.

OnBaseMachine
07-12-2008, 10:54 AM
ON RODRIGUEZ: There are reports that the Reds have reached an agreement with Yorman Rodriguez, a 15-year-old outfielder from Venezuela.

Jocketty says the Reds are in talks with Rodriguez, who can't sign until he turns 16.

"A lot of clubs are talking to him," Jocketty said. "The Yankees have a pretty strong interest in him."

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080712/SPT04/807120351/1071/SPT04

Brutus
07-12-2008, 11:11 AM
ON RODRIGUEZ: There are reports that the Reds have reached an agreement with Yorman Rodriguez, a 15-year-old outfielder from Venezuela.

Jocketty says the Reds are in talks with Rodriguez, who can't sign until he turns 16.

"A lot of clubs are talking to him," Jocketty said. "The Yankees have a pretty strong interest in him."

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080712/SPT04/807120351/1071/SPT04

Sounds to me like Jocketty has a deal in place but is playing coy about it.

Screwball
07-12-2008, 11:49 AM
Sounds to me like Jocketty has a deal in place but is playing coy about it.

Yep. Just like he said he had no idea when the Super 2 date for Jay Bruce was, and then called him up about a day after the date had passed. I hate to count chickens before they hatch, but from all indications it's quite clear that once Yorman turns 16 he'll be a part of the Reds' minor league system.

And I don't think it can be stated enough: you really gotta give credit to Castellini for opening up the checkbook on these international signings. He truly is putting his money where his mouth is when he talks about bringing a winner to Cincinnati.

redsmetz
07-12-2008, 07:33 PM
Sounds to me like Jocketty has a deal in place but is playing coy about it.

It might be that they're prohibited from saying, or also just as likely, it may do them well to sit on it and not rile up the competition for his services.

dougdirt
07-12-2008, 10:07 PM
Someone just left a comment saying that they have a reliable source that says the Cardinals and Rodriguez have agreed to a 3.3 million dollar deal. Take it for what its worth though.....

OnBaseMachine
07-12-2008, 10:09 PM
Someone just left a comment saying that they have a reliable source that says the Cardinals and Rodriguez have agreed to a 3.3 million dollar deal. Take it for what its worth though.....

I'll believe it when I see it.

OnBaseMachine
07-12-2008, 10:14 PM
I just read the comment. Sure smells like pure BS to me. Probably a Cardinal fan.

dougdirt
07-12-2008, 10:15 PM
I'll believe it when I see it.

Thats what I thought too, but its out there now so we will wait and see. For what its worth, the guy was posting from Brooklyn...

Blitz Dorsey
07-12-2008, 10:18 PM
Crap, I bet it's true.

OnBaseMachine
07-12-2008, 10:20 PM
Two or three different solid sources have said the Reds have reach an agreement with him. Sounds like a Cardinal fan making up junk IMO.

Blitz Dorsey
07-12-2008, 11:23 PM
I hope so.

GoReds33
07-13-2008, 12:42 AM
If true, it's because the Reds let their guard down.

toledodan
07-13-2008, 12:49 AM
yo-rod would have a nice catch if we indeed landed him.:D

GoReds33
07-13-2008, 12:50 AM
The newest post has something about a rumor floating around that the Cardinals offered Rafael Rodriguez 3.3 million, which could mean that this was the guy they meant to say.

CrackerJack
07-13-2008, 02:00 AM
Jocketty wants his Cincinnati Pujols.

HBP
07-13-2008, 02:10 AM
Jocketty wants his Cincinnati Pujols.

Pujos was different though, he was a 9th round draft pick or something like that. Would definitely take a Pujos though.

dougdirt
07-13-2008, 02:21 AM
Pujos was different though, he was a 9th round draft pick or something like that. Would definitely take a Pujos though.

13th and yeah, lets get us a Pujols please.

OnBaseMachine
07-13-2008, 03:29 AM
The newest post has something about a rumor floating around that the Cardinals offered Rafael Rodriguez 3.3 million, which could mean that this was the guy they meant to say.

Now that makes more sense.

camisadelgolf
07-13-2008, 05:02 AM
Thank you very much for posting the videos, Doug. That was great.

redhawk61
07-13-2008, 11:37 AM
Jocketty wants his Cincinnati Pujols.
I think he already has that guy, if he signs, in Alonso. Their abilities are eerily similar. lots of BB's low K's, high average, high OBP, plenty of power, and very similar builds with their thick legs. Only difference between the two is which side of to plate they hit from

redhawk61
07-13-2008, 03:31 PM
The newest post has something about a rumor floating around that the Cardinals offered Rafael Rodriguez 3.3 million, which could mean that this was the guy they meant to say.
Giants just signed him for 2.55 according to MLBTR

GoReds33
07-13-2008, 08:06 PM
Giants just signed him for 2.55 according to MLBTRI know, and that was mentioned aswell. Here are some quotes:

I’m told the Giants have signed highly sought after 16 year old Dominican OF Rafael Rodriguez for $2.55 million. I’m told that the Cardinals were one of the teams that were strongly vying for his services, and they were right in the mix up until the end...

Update: Now there is also a rumor floating out there that the Cardinals surpassed that offer, and are giving him $3.3 M. I’m still waiting on my source to confirm that.

2nd update: Nope, Rafael will be a Giant.Seems to me like the Cards offered 3.3 million, but to Rafael, not Yorman. Though it could be the exact opposite...

Kc61
07-13-2008, 08:34 PM
I think he already has that guy, if he signs, in Alonso. Their abilities are eerily similar. lots of BB's low K's, high average, high OBP, plenty of power, and very similar builds with their thick legs. Only difference between the two is which side of to plate they hit from

I think this is exactly why Alonso was drafted by the Reds. Jocketty trying to find the Reds' Pujois.

SoTxRedsFan
07-15-2008, 01:03 PM
So, Yorman Rodriguez is still rumored to sign with the Reds?

Who is ranked the better prospect, Yorman or Rafael?

OnBaseMachine
07-15-2008, 01:05 PM
So, Yorman Rodriguez is still rumored to sign with the Reds?

Who is ranked the better prospect, Yorman or Rafael?

Yorman.

jt4prez
08-05-2008, 11:53 AM
There isnt any news anywhere on Yorman, so I was just wondering if anybody here knows when he turns 16 and if anybody had heard anything else regarding where he is going to sign?

camisadelgolf
08-05-2008, 11:55 AM
There isnt any news anywhere on Yorman, so I was just wondering if anybody here knows when he turns 16 and if anybody had heard anything else regarding where he is going to sign?

I believe he turns 16 on the 15th.

OnBaseMachine
08-05-2008, 12:33 PM
There isnt any news anywhere on Yorman, so I was just wondering if anybody here knows when he turns 16 and if anybody had heard anything else regarding where he is going to sign?

Like camis said, I believe Rodriguez can sign on August 15th which is his 16th birthday. To answer your second question, no, I haven't heard anything else on Yorman in weeks. The last I remember reading was the update from Jocketty where he confirmed the Reds were after Yorman but he also mentioned the Yankees as being interested. Of course he couldn't admit the Reds have signed him yet because that would be against the rules.

jt4prez
08-05-2008, 01:28 PM
Thanks a lot guys. I guess I'll be looking forward to the 15th.

Homer Bailey
08-08-2008, 12:32 AM
I'm quite confident we have this guy, and for good reason ;).

jt4prez
08-09-2008, 10:46 PM
I'm quite confident we have this guy, and for good reason ;).


Care to divulge?

jesusfan
08-10-2008, 09:13 AM
yeah... divulge a little..

RedEye
08-10-2008, 12:52 PM
I'm quite confident we have this guy, and for good reason ;).

Because you are the real Homer Bailey and you saw Yorman the other day?

Homer Bailey
08-10-2008, 07:41 PM
I can't really say why, but it comes from an inside source.

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 03:42 PM
This seems to be good news...:)

Jocketty was on his way to the Dominican Republic immediately after the trade and could not be reached for comment.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

Hmmm...Yorman can sign on Friday, Walt is going to the DR...hmmmm

HotCorner
08-11-2008, 03:47 PM
This seems to be good news...:)

Jocketty was on his way to the Dominican Republic immediately after the trade and could not be reached for comment.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

Hmmm...Yorman can sign on Friday, Walt is going to the DR...hmmmm

But isn't Rodriguez from Venezuela?

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 03:49 PM
But isn't Rodriguez from Venezuela?

Yes, I'm an idiot.

princeton
08-11-2008, 03:49 PM
But isn't Rodriguez from Venezuela?

don't interrupt with details -- he's on a roll.

Grande Donkey
08-15-2008, 12:47 PM
Any news on the Y-Rod front?

redsmetz
08-15-2008, 12:50 PM
Happy Birthday, Yorman! Come see us some time.

http://www.hotbreadsmddc.com/images/cakes/boys_birthday_cakes/18-BASEBALL%20(5%20PLAYERS%20PER%20CAKE).jpg

HBP
08-15-2008, 12:55 PM
Let's hope the first basemen gets out of the way before he swings ;)

11larkin11
08-15-2008, 01:01 PM
Let's hope the first basemen gets out of the way before he swings ;)

Thats actually Norris Hopper batting therefore the first baseman knows either its a bunt or if he actually does hit it it wont get past him.

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2008, 05:03 PM
Still no news on Yorman. I guess we'll probably have to wait until Monday for Baseball America to announce something because we know the Reds don't have any writers who even have a clue about Yorman turning 16 today.

Degenerate39
08-15-2008, 05:09 PM
Still no news on Yorman. I guess we'll probably have to wait until Monday for Baseball America to announce something because we know the Reds don't have any writers who even have a clue about Yorman turning 16 today.

Faye is probably trying to find out all he can about Yrmon.

GoReds33
08-15-2008, 11:45 PM
I'm getting concerned that there has been no news. I hope we see something tomorrow.

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2008, 11:54 PM
I'm guessing the Reds won't get Yorman now. It's probably going to take 2+ million to sign him and they've already spent a bunch on Alonso and others. I hope I'm wrong but I have a bad feeling.

Mario-Rijo
08-16-2008, 12:07 AM
I'm guessing the Reds won't get Yorman now. It's probably going to take 2+ million to sign him and they've already spent a bunch on Alonso and others. I hope I'm wrong but I have a bad feeling.

Nah, it's an unlimited supply of cash, right! :D But seriously my gut says one has nothing to do with the other.

johngalt
08-16-2008, 12:13 AM
Not only did the Reds get a Yonder.....but they got a Yorman also :)

REDS SIGN PRIZED VENEZUELAN OUTFIELDER

The Reds have announced the signing of premier Venezuelan CF Yorman Rodriguez. The high profile, 5-tool player turned 16 years old today.

"Yorman is one of the premier position players in Latin America," said Reds Senior Director of Scouting Chris Buckley. "In Rodriguez and Juan Duran, we've signed 2 of the top players available in that market and consider both to be first-round draft picks. This organization has made great progress in international scouting."

Duran, a highly-touted Dominican outfielder also 16 years old, was signed February 27.

The Reds signed 34 of this year's 50 June draft picks, including 30th rounder RHP Juan Sulbaran and 35th rounder LHP Matthew Fairel, both of whom were signed today.

AccordinglyReds
08-16-2008, 12:14 AM
Great news!

redhawk61
08-16-2008, 12:17 AM
considered the system restocked

11larkin11
08-16-2008, 12:20 AM
...Wow. Instead of Reds games I wish my cable company would just play the games of the minor league teams. Will Yorman go to the DSL or just workout in Sarasota?

AmarilloRed
08-16-2008, 12:20 AM
Not only did the Reds get a Yonder.....but they got a Yorman also :)

REDS SIGN PRIZED VENEZUELAN OUTFIELDER

The Reds have announced the signing of premier Venezuelan CF Yorman Rodriguez. The high profile, 5-tool player turned 16 years old today.

"Yorman is one of the premier position players in Latin America," said Reds Senior Director of Scouting Chris Buckley. "In Rodriguez and Juan Duran, we've signed 2 of the top players available in that market and consider both to be first-round draft picks. This organization has made great progress in international scouting."

Duran, a highly-touted Dominican outfielder also 16 years old, was signed February 27.

The Reds signed 34 of this year's 50 June draft picks, including 30th rounder RHP Juan Sulbaran and 35th rounder LHP Matthew Fairel, both of whom were signed today.

Can you provide a link to this article?

AccordinglyReds
08-16-2008, 12:25 AM
Can you provide a link to this article?

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20080816&content_id=3317054&vkey=pr_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

gefootball10
08-16-2008, 12:27 AM
...Wow. Instead of Reds games I wish my cable company would just play the games of the minor league teams. Will Yorman go to the DSL or just workout in Sarasota?

most latin american players signed internationally start out in the dsl. if shipped to sarasota he would be playing against men 3-5 years older than he. just my take could be wrong however.

11larkin11
08-16-2008, 12:30 AM
most latin american players signed internationally start out in the dsl. if shipped to sarasota he would be playing against men 3-5 years older than he. just my take could be wrong however.

I meant just be in Sarasota at the training facility working out, not playing for the GCL or SaraReds.

GoReds33
08-16-2008, 12:37 AM
considered the system restockedI think that about sums it up. The minors are now reloaded with young talent, and hopefully the pipeline will continue to produce.

LoganBuck
08-16-2008, 12:37 AM
What is next? Bigfoot is really hanging out in Georgia?

camisadelgolf
08-16-2008, 12:47 AM
...Wow. Instead of Reds games I wish my cable company would just play the games of the minor league teams. Will Yorman go to the DSL or just workout in Sarasota?

The advantage that Juan Duran had was that he was signed a while ago. If Rodriguez goes to the DSL, he'd have very limited time there. The Reds signed Junior Arias to a fairly big contract, and he has yet to play in a game with the Reds, so it's certainly no lock that Rodriguez will play this year.

Mario-Rijo
08-16-2008, 01:07 AM
The advantage that Juan Duran had was that he was signed a while ago. If Rodriguez goes to the DSL, he'd have very limited time there. The Reds signed Junior Arias to a fairly big contract, and he has yet to play in a game with the Reds, so it's certainly no lock that Rodriguez will play this year.

I don't believe he can play until next season if I'm not mistaken.

OnBaseMachine
08-16-2008, 02:22 AM
Awesome, awesome news. I was fairly confident all along that the Reds were going to sign him and then a few hours ago I began to get nervous due to the lack of news. It turned out no news was good news. This signing thrills me. Yorman supposedly has the tools to be a great center fielder and has been compared to the likes of Miguel Cabrera and Carlos Beltran. His power and speed have been rated as 70's on the 20-80 scouting scale. This just further proves the Reds are becoming major players in the International scene. Juan Duran and Yorman Rodriguez were the big signings but Junior Arias was also a fairly big signing. This is awesome. The Reds have added a lot of talent to the organization lately.

OnBaseMachine
08-16-2008, 02:51 AM
Reds ink highly touted Venezuelan
Rodriguez, 16, considered five-tool center fielder
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

CINCINNATI -- While the Reds finalized their deal with first-round Draft pick Yonder Alonso, they also made another move on Friday night that was significant for their developmental system.

Center fielder Yorman Rodriguez, a 16-year-old from Venezuela, was signed to a contract. Considered a five-tool player, his birthday was on Friday. The youngest a foreign player can sign a contract is 16.

"He might be the top position prospect in all of Latin America," Reds scouting director Chris Buckley said.

Terms of the deal were not revealed.

Rodriguez is the second highly touted young Latin player to enter the Reds system this year. On Feb. 27, Dominican outfielder Juan Duran was signed.

"We've signed two of the top players available in that market and consider both to be first-round Draft picks," Buckley said. "This organization has made great progress in international scouting."

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080816&content_id=3317379&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Homer Bailey
08-16-2008, 03:02 AM
Safe to say I told you so?

Homer Bailey
08-16-2008, 03:08 AM
I'm quite confident we have this guy, and for good reason ;).

Yeah its safe.

OnBaseMachine
08-16-2008, 03:16 AM
Good call.

Homer Bailey
08-16-2008, 03:23 AM
Good call.

I'm not gloating. Actually I am, but this is one of the first times my inside info has actually panned out. I get all the rumors first hand, but this was the one guarantee that I had. Now I've gotta work on the free agents!

Matt700wlw
08-16-2008, 03:27 AM
I'm not the biggest follower of the reds minor league systems (but this site has been an awesome resource for me...which I greatly appreciate), but I'm under the impression that these are 'splash like' moves for this system....a system, that until recentely, was pretty dried up

Topcat
08-16-2008, 03:32 AM
Safe to say I told you so?

Serious Props to you:thumbup::beerme:

Matt700wlw
08-16-2008, 03:43 AM
Safe to say I told you so?

Being the breaker of news kicks ass.....I was responsible for getting the Dunn trade on the air before any source (i found it out on this board)......I told Channel 5 about it too!!! Kearns-Lopez trade....Larue trade. I'm proud of those scoops....gives me credibility......which I still hope I have....

icehole3
08-16-2008, 06:09 AM
Awesome, awesome news. I was fairly confident all along that the Reds were going to sign him and then a few hours ago I began to get nervous due to the lack of news. It turned out no news was good news. This signing thrills me. Yorman supposedly has the tools to be a great center fielder and has been compared to the likes of Miguel Cabrera and Carlos Beltran. His power and speed have been rated as 70's on the 20-80 scouting scale. This just further proves the Reds are becoming major players in the International scene. Juan Duran and Yorman Rodriguez were the big signings but Junior Arias was also a fairly big signing. This is awesome. The Reds have added a lot of talent to the organization lately.

Who is Junior Arias OBM???

camisadelgolf
08-16-2008, 07:49 AM
Who is Junior Arias OBM???

There isn't much info on Arias, but here's what's available:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/international-affairs/2008/266438.html

The Reds signed Dominican shortstop Junior Arias, a strong, high-waisted athlete.

"He's a good-looking kid," one scout said last week. "He's got good hands, he's a good athlete and he's got good body control. He's a line-drive hitter—it's a short stroke to the ball."