Ken Rosenthal piece on the Reds...Dusty would love this

[OnBaseMachine]

It's the time of the year to be creative, and one GM offers this trade concept: Outfielder Adam Dunn to the Dodgers for outfielder Juan Pierre and shortstop Chin-lung Hu, with the Dodgers contributing enough money to knock down Pierre's average salary through 2011 from $8.8 million to, say, $6 million.

The Dodgers would benefit from Dunn's power, the savings on Pierre's contract and the two draft picks they would receive if Dunn left as a free agent. The Reds would get Pierre — who played for Dusty Baker with the Cubs — at a more reasonable price. They could play Pierre in center and move Jay Bruce to right field, with Hu becoming their shortstop of the future.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8287934/Bullpen-management-proving-to-be-Girardi's-strength?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49\

Juan Pierre?!? Gosh no. Please keep Pierre away from Cincy and Dusty.

[OnBaseMachine]

No thanks on Pierre but Chin-Lung Hu is a guy I'd like to see the Reds acquire. He's not going to win any Silver Slugger awards but I think he could develop into a decent hitter but it's his defense I like. He's got the defensive tools to be a gold glove shortstop one day. Forget Juan Pierre and add in a pitch prospect like James McDonald or 3B Andy LaRoche + Hu and that's a deal I'd take.

[Cyclone792]

What'd be even better would be Corey Patterson in center field long-term with Juan Pierre in left field.

By the way, I wonder what the status is on the negotiations for Patterson's long-term deal?

[Homer Bailey]

Oh please no thank you on Juan. You know Dusty will have him in Left Field and CP in Center.

[RichRed]

What'd be even better would be Corey Patterson in center field long-term with Juan Pierre in left field.

By the way, I wonder what the status is on the negotiations for Patterson's long-term deal?

Are you trying to make me cry?

[IslandRed]

If Juan Pierre was a better player or if the salary obligation was smaller, maybe.

I'm not against the concept of taking on the tail end of a bad contract if it's the flip side of getting high-end talent, mind you. If the Dodgers were offering Hu + some albatross in his walk year to make the dollars even out, I could buy that, but not three years' worth of Juan Pierre. $6 million per year is still more than he's worth.

[flyer85]

... and we think the current offense was smelly.

[dougdirt]

Dunn for Andy LaRoche straight up would be fantastic.... never would happen, but it would be fantastic.

[corkedbat]

I would rather have Hu and Kemp for Dunn and pay the Dodgers $8M to keep Pierre :D

[dougdirt]

I would rather have Hu and Kemp for Dunn and pay the Dodgers $8M to keep Pierre :D

Dunn and 8 million for Kemp and Hu.... we should start calling the Dodgers on that one.

[Degenerate39]

Where does Jr. play?

[corkedbat]

Where does Jr. play?

LF if it were to happen and he were to play, but I want NO part of Pierre

[Spring~Fields]

It's the time of the year to be creative, and one GM offers this trade concept: Outfielder Adam Dunn to the Dodgers for outfielder Juan Pierre and shortstop Chin-lung Hu, with the Dodgers contributing enough money to knock down Pierre's average salary through 2011 from $8.8 million to, say, $6 million.



Billingsley and Kemp for Dunn and the Dodgers can keep the change.

[dougdirt]

Billingsley and Kemp for Dunn and the Dodgers can keep the change.

The Dodgers wouldn't do either guy by themselves for Dunn, much less both of them together.

[Spring~Fields]

The Dodgers wouldn't do either guy by themselves for Dunn, much less both of them together.

Maybe on a good day, what else do they need?

[dougdirt]

Maybe on a good day, what else do they need?

No, not even on a good day. The Reds tried offering Dunn for Kemp + a low level prospect and the Dodgers basically laughed at them and told them thanks but no thanks.

[Spring~Fields]

No, not even on a good day. The Reds tried offering Dunn for Kemp + a low level prospect and the Dodgers basically laughed at them and told them thanks but no thanks.

Ok, just our luck.

When I was watching the Dodgers and Reds I was thinking that if one could combine the two teams, one might have a great team, seems like each has a part of what is needed.

[Will M]

can Pierre play a good defensive CF? if the answer is yes then Dunn for Pierre plus some combination of cash plus prospects makes some sense if Walt doesn't think he can sign Dunn and the return seems better than the draft picks. in essence we all know Pierre stinks so we make the Dodgers throw in a TON of good young players/prospects. one advantage of this kind of deal is that we get talent closer to the bigs ( compared to taking draft picks ).

[Always Red]

What'd be even better would be Corey Patterson in center field long-term with Juan Pierre in left field.

By the way, I wonder what the status is on the negotiations for Patterson's long-term deal?

Hey, Sammy Sosa is still looking for work, too. Why don't we have a big ol' Cubs reunion in the OF?

I've always been afraid that one day Juan Pierre would be a Redleg. I still am. FWIW, his slugging average is BELOW his OBP this year. :beerme:

Wayne would've extended CPatt by now...;)

[RedsManRick]

You know the whole routine about a guy getting dumped by his GF, who then proceeds to lose a lot of weight, wins the lottery, and all that jazz? I feel like being a Reds fan is that in reverse.

I've never loved and despised the same thing simultaneously like this before.

[Joseph]

At least Pierre uses his speed to try to get on base. Patterson thinks he's a slugger.

Still no though, unless Kemp comes too.

[Always Red]

At least Pierre uses his speed to try to get on base. Patterson thinks he's a slugger.



I'd rather have Patterson swinging for the fences than using that crappy, choppy swing-like thing he uses when he's just trying to get on base. Obviously, the man's on base skills are awful- I'd rather he just try to hit everything out.

Personally, I'd like neither of them on my team, please!

[reds44]

I probably like Pierre more than most here, and I still wouldn't do that deal. Unless the Dodgers pay a chunk of his salary, which I doubt they will. I want salary relief when we trade Dunn.

[reds44]

I'd rather have Patterson swinging for the fences than using that crappy, choppy swing-like thing he uses when he's just trying to get on base. Obviously, the man's on base skills are awful- I'd rather he just try to hit everything out.

Personally, I'd like neither of them on my team, please!
At least Pierre has 32 steals this year and an OBP about 40 points above Patterson's career number.

There's no doubt Pierre is a better player, but he is also making way more money.

[GAC]

Anytime an organization is willing to part of a player's salary to get you to take him then beware.

[hebroncougar]

Maybe on a good day, what else do they need?

How about a former Dodger who's a manager? :D

[reds44]

can Pierre play a good defensive CF? if the answer is yes then Dunn for Pierre plus some combination of cash plus prospects makes some sense if Walt doesn't think he can sign Dunn and the return seems better than the draft picks. in essence we all know Pierre stinks so we make the Dodgers throw in a TON of good young players/prospects. one advantage of this kind of deal is that we get talent closer to the bigs ( compared to taking draft picks ).
Pierre can play a competent CF, but I wouldn't call him "good" out there. His speed gives him good range, but he has no throwing arm.

[jojo]

I've never loved and despised the same thing simultaneously like this before.

It's just a GM who didn't want to be named doing a little brainstorming....

Relax,

Twist cap,

:beerme:

[RedsManRick]

It's just a GM who didn't want to be named doing a little brainstorming....

Relax,

Twist cap,

:beerme:

This FO certainly makes you want to tip one back.

[KronoRed]

I would only want Pierre on this team if he were totally paid for by the Dodgers, oh and they can only get Patterson for him
:)

[Highlifeman21]

I would only want Pierre on this team if he were totally paid for by the Dodgers, oh and they can only get Patterson for him
:)

Defensively I prefer Patteson by a landslide.

Offensively I prefer neither, also by a landslide.

[*BaseClogger*]

The scary thing is this is exactly the kind of deal Jocketty's known for (the Dodgers paying for an expensive, expiring contract) except that Pierre is NOT an impact player...

[Falls City Beer]

The scary thing is this is exactly the kind of deal Jocketty's known for (the Dodgers paying for an expensive, expiring contract) except that Pierre is NOT an impact player...

Yeah, Jocketty's made a long list of clunkers like this one. So have we moved on to just making stuff up now....

[CrackerJack]

My God, if Pierre somehow came here, RedsZone would see a ten fold increase in post frequency, there may have to be a forum created just for him. I sense some posters are sweating it out now that Patterson's batting low in the order, and there's not as much to post about. So they're starting to concoct scenarios that would bring their golden boy home.

[Jpup]

Yeah, Jocketty's made a long list of clunkers like this one. So have we moved on to just making stuff up now....

He's known for not doing anything in Cincinnati thus far. Does he usually manage like this or did he just lose his cell phone? I just can't believe how inactive he has been.

I wouldn't mind seeing Pierre on the Reds if he were used correctly. He is killing lefties this year and knows how to swipe a bag. If he were to bat 8th, I would be all for him if the price were right. Adam Dunn is a much more valuable guy. Rosenthal has lost it. Andre Either is a guy that the Reds should be targeting. I almost believe they could get him for Dunn.

[GAC]

He's known for not doing anything in Cincinnati thus far. Does he usually manage like this or did he just lose his cell phone? I just can't believe how inactive he has been.

Lets be fair here. Have you been seeing any other GMs around MLB making deals right now? You can't force other GMs to make deals that they aren't willing to make at this moment. You have to have willing partners.

It has become all about timing (the right moment).

GMs purposely wait till closer to the trading deadline, knowing the window is getting ready to close, and using other team's "desperation" hunt for that second half piece, in order to make the best deal they can. They use it to try and take advantage of the situation. It's a strategy.

[Larry Schuler]

Jocketty should ask Sean Casey for advice.

[Tony Cloninger]

What bothers me about WJ is he has no problems with still having 2 1/2 catchers.....Valentin is not Smokey Burgess....so please get someone else....do not tell me you cannot find a better more versatile bench/PH than him.`

[Always Red]

What bothers me about WJ is he has no problems with still having 2 1/2 catchers.....Valentin is not Smokey Burgess....so please get someone else....do not tell me you cannot find a better more versatile bench/PH than him.`

I think all of these needed changes will come in due time- there is simply no rush right now to do so. This season is obviously lost, and the Reds will be cautious (I hope) sellers. The players the Reds have to deal will be worth more at the trade deadline than they are right now.

Add to that the simple reality that some of these guys have no value to anyone other than the Reds. Does anyone out there have a spot for ANY of our three catchers? Maybe not. Does anyone want Arroyo and his contract? Maybe not. I read on this site yesterday that Dunn had supposedly been offered (in a package) for Kemp and the Dodgers laughed at it. We vilified Ricciardi, and rightly so, for his crassness, but some think he was speaking aloud what some baseball insiders really think about Adam.

We far over-value our own players here; many of us are guilty of that. Hatte was beloved by many of us, and yet is out of the game at this point. Deno...;)

So the guys who have little or no value (I do not need to name them!) are here because they are sunk costs, and there is no need to pay someone else (and increasing overhead) to fill their roster spots right now. They will be gone in due time, IMO. If they are cut loose right now, who fills their role? Not everyone in AAA is ready- we have seen that very clearly this year.

At this point, there is no need for any panicky moves to try to maneuver this team into better position. Patience is the key, again IMO. This team has a lot of bright spots, young guys who have shown flashes of excellence. Retain that core and build around them.

[Big Klu]

We far over-value our own players here; many of us are guilty of that. Hatte was beloved by many of us, and yet is out of the game at this point. Deno...;)

I was assured by several on this site that Chris Denorfia would be the starting CF in Oakland by this time (because Billy Beane knows more about him than Wayne did), and that then we would see why it was such a bad idea to trade him!

[Matt700wlw]

UPDATE from Rosenthal: So far, no interest in Adam Dunn

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8301638/Red-Sox-might-be-wise-to-wash-hands-of-Manny?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=3498

It's still early, but the Reds surely are surprised that no team is showing interest in Dunn, who boasts an .889 OPS and is just short of being on pace for his fifth straight 40-homer season. The problem is, none of the AL contenders has an obvious need at DH and most NL teams consider Dunn a defensive liability. Still, power hitters are difficult to find, particularly now that baseball is testing for performance-enhancing drugs . . .

[Will M]

UPDATE from Rosenthal: So far, no interest in Adam Dunn

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8301638/Red-Sox-might-be-wise-to-wash-hands-of-Manny?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=3498

It's still early, but the Reds surely are surprised that no team is showing interest in Dunn, who boasts an .889 OPS and is just short of being on pace for his fifth straight 40-homer season. The problem is, none of the AL contenders has an obvious need at DH and most NL teams consider Dunn a defensive liability. Still, power hitters are difficult to find, particularly now that baseball is testing for performance-enhancing drugs . . .

I saw this also. Maybe it means we keep him?

[NJReds]

I saw this also. Maybe it means we keep him?

... and maybe his price comes down.

[KronoRed]

... and maybe his price comes down.

Maybe, but more then likely he'll go FA and see what he can get then let the Reds get a discount.