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schmidty622
07-03-2008, 06:17 PM
Taken from Homer Bailey on ORG:

"Take this for what its worth, but my "inside source" tells me that there is some trade chatter going around at the dining table, and Jeff Piecoro is bouncing around everywhere. He just rushed into the dining room saying he had something substantive that he might have to report on.

Don't wanna get anyone's hopes up (or down), but this is the information I have been given. If I get any more I will let you know."

AND

"My source wanted me to check and see if I had seen anything substantial on the internet. There is something strange going on, he just doesn't know what. I'm guessing that he won't be the first to find out whatever it is, as we will probably all find out at the same time."

Probably nothing, but Adam Dunn is out of the lineup.

redhawk61
07-03-2008, 06:40 PM
Hopefully its, "Hey Dunn, go to the other dugout, your a National now"

schmidty622
07-03-2008, 06:41 PM
Matt700WLW says he knows who it is and we will too... soon. MAN this better be good

stfm965
07-03-2008, 06:43 PM
I can confirm. I know I don't post much and you have little reason to believe me or think I'm not just jumping on the bandwagon....


but Matt is right, the issue is timing. Matt knows what I'm talking about.

bgwilly31
07-03-2008, 06:47 PM
i hope its griffey but i doubt it.

Probably another stupid move by the reds. :thumbdown

redhawk61
07-03-2008, 06:48 PM
I can confirm. I know I don't post much and you have little reason to believe me or think I'm not just jumping on the bandwagon....


but Matt is right, the issue is timing. Matt knows what I'm talking about.
Why can't you confirm it...I won't tell...;)

stfm965
07-03-2008, 06:49 PM
My guess is that things will become clearer tonight but there are "issues" to be worked out....but no more than 24 hours (based on what I've been told)

redhawk61
07-03-2008, 06:50 PM
As someone said in the other thread..Bailey and Janish for Burnett?

redhawk61
07-03-2008, 06:52 PM
My guess is that things will become clearer tonight but there are "issues" to be worked out....but no more than 24 hours (based on what I've been told)
And just a side question, how do you even know, not trying to say you aren't telling the thruth, just wondering how you and a few others know

highheat11
07-03-2008, 07:00 PM
Just curious, but IF it ends up being Griffey that gets traded somewhere, who would he represent in the All-Star game assuming he plays in it? Would he wear the Reds gear since thats who he played for during the time of all the voting or does he wear the uniform of his new team? I'm trying to think of an instance where this has happened to see what a past trend has been, but nothing comes to mind.

GoReds33
07-03-2008, 07:03 PM
Just curious, but IF it ends up being Griffey that gets traded somewhere, who would he represent in the All-Star game assuming he plays in it? Would he wear the Reds gear since thats who he played for during the time of all the voting or does he wear the uniform of his new team? I'm trying to think of an instance where this has happened to see what a past trend has been, but nothing comes to mind.IIRC, Carlos Beltran was in a scenario like that. I don't remember the outcome though.

highheat11
07-03-2008, 07:09 PM
After looking at his Wikipedia page, it was a little more complicated because he was traded from the AL to the NL and they didn't initially give him a spot in the NL lineup, but Griffey dropped out due to going to the DL and then he got his roster spot. Could be a similar situation since if in fact Griffey is the big trade it is almost certain he'd be going back to the AL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Beltran

Lockdwn11
07-03-2008, 07:09 PM
If it was Griffey I don't think he would be in the lineup risking injury so I do think its him.

highheat11
07-03-2008, 07:12 PM
If it was Griffey I don't think he would be in the lineup risking injury so I do think its him.

Thats what I assumed too, but I thought maybe the "timing" issue may have been them wanting to give him a final at bat at GABP and announcing his trade so he can get a proper farewell.. Maybe a little cheesy and Hollywood-esque but something to consider.

nemesis
07-03-2008, 07:12 PM
Arroyo to Phillies...?

Definatly a move with someone on the MLB roster, all the HIGH END MILB guys are playing tonight...unless it's a pitcher

redhawk61
07-03-2008, 07:13 PM
Even though I know players like to stay in the clubhouse and all when they aren't playing, Dunn is not in the dugout when guys like Andy Phillips are.

Lockdwn11
07-03-2008, 07:14 PM
Arroyo to Phillies...?

That is a good guess

Lockdwn11
07-03-2008, 07:25 PM
It's not Dunn I'm guessing Arroyo

forfreelin04
07-03-2008, 07:26 PM
How do you know its not Dunn for those that are saying it?

Lockdwn11
07-03-2008, 07:29 PM
Well I have to site sources on this one .I have known it wasn't Dunn for about 1/2 an hour and I was told not to say anything so I didn't but I see it is now posted on the ORG so I was just passing it on.

Lockdwn11
07-03-2008, 07:31 PM
If I get any info I will pass it on as soon as I can.

Stephenk29
07-03-2008, 07:32 PM
supposedly the Jay are in need of a SS. Hairston, Keppinger?

Burnett?

Brutus
07-03-2008, 07:33 PM
Well I have to site sorces on this one .I have known it wasn't Dunn for about 1/2 an hour and I was told not to say anything so I didn't but I see it is now posted on the ORG so I was just passing it on.

I would guess Griffey or Arroyo anyhow. But being able to eliminate Dunn as a candidate makes it easier to figure out.

I admit though, I'm interested in where the Bailey & Janish for A.J. Burnett rumor came from. That seems to be coming from out of the blue, which is the type of trade that winds up happening when you least expect it.

redhawk61
07-03-2008, 07:37 PM
Even though you say it isn't Dunn, I find it interesting that when they showed the pow wow that Griff, Boone, Kearns, and Bowden were having Dunn was nowhere to be seen, and seeing that Griff and Kearns are his best friends, you would think he would there in that reunion of sorts

highheat11
07-03-2008, 07:39 PM
Even though you say it isn't Dunn, I find it interesting that when they showed the pow wow that Griff, Boone, Kearns, and Bowden were having Dunn was nowhere to be seen, and seeing that Griff and Kearns are his best friends, you would think he would there in that reunion of sorts

Maybe he was down in the clubhouse trying to get the first crack at the pre-game spread before Javy got to it :laugh:

Lockdwn11
07-03-2008, 07:44 PM
With the info I have been given I Think it is Arroyo or Arroyo and other minor parts and the hold up is the money is being worked out. Now, I have not been told who it is but putting two and two together I have a pretty good feeling it is him.

Stephenk29
07-03-2008, 07:45 PM
With the info I have been given I Think it is Arroyo or Arroyo and other minor parts and the hold up is the money is being worked out. Now, I have not been told who it is but putting two and two together I have a pretty good feeling it is him.

to whom?

CarolinaRedleg
07-03-2008, 07:49 PM
Well, if it is a deal for Burnett, safe to say Dunn's not involved ;)

Lockdwn11
07-03-2008, 07:51 PM
I'm working on that but the Phillies was a pretty good guess

TC81190
07-03-2008, 07:53 PM
It's not Burnett, that was just something thrown out by a poster on ORG.

CarolinaRedleg
07-03-2008, 07:54 PM
I'm working on that but the Phillies was a pretty good guess

I saw Victorino's in their lineup tonight.....

Stephenk29
07-03-2008, 07:59 PM
I'm going to make a guess of Arroyo to the Braves. Seems to make a lot of sense. The Phillies was only a 'good guess.' Braves have all sorts of pitchers with injuries.

tommycash
07-03-2008, 08:11 PM
I hope that something big wasn't Andy Phillips coming back and Thompson being sent down, cuz thats huge news to me.

Orodle
07-03-2008, 08:25 PM
When is Freel available to come off the DL? Could it be a deal involving him because you arnt allowed to trade players on the DL?

redsfanfalcon
07-03-2008, 08:35 PM
When is Freel available to come off the DL? Could it be a deal involving him because you arnt allowed to trade players on the DL?

He just suffered a setback...the hammy tore off the bone completely. Could be awhile?

CarolinaRedleg
07-03-2008, 09:08 PM
Checked a couple of Phillies boards and haven't seen anything....

jballachino
07-03-2008, 10:04 PM
What about Dunn and Bailey to dodgers for Kemp,Either,Broxton

improbus
07-03-2008, 10:27 PM
Well, according to Jayson Stark's Grumblings, no one is biting on Dunn. However, he does state that the Reds are listening to offers on Harang.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings

thorn
07-03-2008, 10:30 PM
Well, according to Jayson Stark's Grumblings, no one is biting on Dunn. However, he does state that the Reds are listening to offers on Harang.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings

If that is true, it may take Dunn being paired with someone else, like Harang or Arroyo, to get something of quality back. Although if they trade Harang and Dunn together, they better get back studs to be or quality ML's under control for the next few years.

Stephenk29
07-03-2008, 10:31 PM
What about Dunn and Bailey to dodgers for Kemp,Either,Broxton

that will be the day

stfm965
07-03-2008, 10:37 PM
all I can say is that someone on here came pretty darn close....atleast based on what I've been hearing.

757690
07-03-2008, 10:45 PM
all I can say is that someone on here came pretty darn close....atleast based on what I've been hearing.

someone on the sun deck or the org?

Stephenk29
07-03-2008, 10:47 PM
:rolleyes:

BUTLER REDSFAN
07-03-2008, 10:47 PM
Can someone allegedly "in the know" at least tell us if its a decent trade..will we like it?!?! etc...

redhawk61
07-03-2008, 10:48 PM
all I can say is that someone on here came pretty darn close....atleast based on what I've been hearing.
So Arroyo to the Phils or Braves
or Janish and Bailey for Burrnett
or possibly, though not stated, Arroyo to the Yanks

David Cubbedge
07-03-2008, 10:48 PM
Yankees fans would hate Arroyo

stfm965
07-03-2008, 10:55 PM
Listen all I really know is that there is one player and one team that are being mentioned. Again, my hands are tied and I can't mention anymore than that. Nothing is official yet, this could very well dissapate which is one reason why I can say no more.

redhawk61
07-03-2008, 10:58 PM
Listen all I really know is that there is one player and one team that are being mentioned. Again, my hands are tied and I can't mention anymore than that. Nothing is official yet, this could very well dissapate which is one reason why I can say no more.
why can't you? if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out and life goes on

Ghosts of 1990
07-03-2008, 11:00 PM
Here is my call, and I've never been wrong.

Nothing is going to go down, not now, and not in the next two or three weeks. So there. All the sources, and whispers and all that. Nothing will happen. You watch.

stfm965
07-03-2008, 11:03 PM
thats a perfectly viable option. Nothing is official and I know there are countless "close" deals that never happen, and this one could turn out to be one of those. But I've been asked to remain quiet on details and I'm going to honor that request until I'm told otherwise. When I find out more and I'm given permission to go public I'll inform the best I can.

Stephenk29
07-03-2008, 11:03 PM
so many sources yet so many people who can't say anything. Like the Reds are hovering on these boards waiting to see which alias spills what.

maybe I'm just bitter cause I'm watching The Happening for some reason.

stfm965
07-03-2008, 11:08 PM
I understand the skepticism. I really do. Again as more happens I'll let you know.

redhawk61
07-03-2008, 11:09 PM
so many sources yet so many people who can't say anything. Like the Reds are hovering on these boards waiting to see which alias spills what.

maybe I'm just bitter cause I'm watching The Happening for some reason.
that movie is horrible. Last weekend when I was in NY, me and my buddies were walking around NY and were tired of walking and wanted to sit down for awhile. So we came across a movie theater in Manhattan, that we went into to see Get Smart, bet yet all movies in this place were like 2 months old except for the happening. So we go in and it cost 12 DOLLARS!!! AT 2PM!!! and the movie was horrid, to those who were thinking of seeing it, save your money.

o and somebody go ahead and spill the beans what is going on here, I don't see why all this stuff has to be secret. I respect that you are trying to be good to your "source" but come oooonnnnnn!!!! come oooonnnnn!!!!!:rolleyes:

realreds1
07-03-2008, 11:28 PM
"Timing," eh? Could "timing" refer to a certain long-haired crappy singer's rotation spot coming up tomorrow?

lidspinner
07-03-2008, 11:31 PM
I understand the skepticism. I really do. Again as more happens I'll let you know.

Do us all a favor....

Log out
re-register using a different name
give us the scoop
log out
log back in under your original user name
respond to your alias and say "I agree with ya pal"

stfm965
07-03-2008, 11:35 PM
not a bad idea...but don't hold your breath

David Cubbedge
07-03-2008, 11:48 PM
Sounds like the night is over and we won't hear anything until tomorrow if something does come of this. Tonight will be full of dreams who we could get in return from Atlanta for Arroyo...

redhawk61
07-03-2008, 11:54 PM
Sounds like the night is over and we won't hear anything until tomorrow if something does come of this. Tonight will be full of dreams who we could get in return from Atlanta for Arroyo...
Lets convince them that they don't need Jason Heyward...:thumbup:

David Cubbedge
07-04-2008, 12:08 AM
Or Jordan Schafer ;)

indyred
07-04-2008, 12:24 AM
I'm looking for it to be either Harang or Dunn. My guess is Harang to either the Yankees or Phillies.

indyred
07-04-2008, 12:27 AM
Arroyo to Phillies...?

Definatly a move with someone on the MLB roster, all the HIGH END MILB guys are playing tonight...unless it's a pitcher

I can't see them wanting any part of Arroyo. You realize they play in a park just like GABP. It's small and the ball flies out of there.

redhawk61
07-04-2008, 12:34 AM
not a bad idea...but don't hold your breath
were waiting....:D

TeamSelig
07-04-2008, 12:53 AM
I smell..... bs

yab1112
07-04-2008, 12:56 AM
i wish i wouldn't have logged on to redszone tonight, then i wouldnt be up all night thinking about it. oh well...sleeps over-rated

redsfan1966
07-04-2008, 07:00 AM
I smell bs as well, just something to generate thread posts---of course, of which I have contributed too....:D

Ghosts of 1990
07-04-2008, 08:16 AM
Its not Dunn. Dunn won't be traded. Its not Griffey. Griffey won't be traded.

If anything, it's arroyo. I think Arroyo is brutal. It would surprise me if he drew any interest or anything substantial in return. Therefore if its arroyo, then I really could care less. I'd be happy we don't have to pay him the next few years to throw like a AAA starter though.

I(heart)Freel
07-04-2008, 08:47 AM
Course all I'm doing is scouring the net for rumors/reports...

but this caught my eye in light of this thread.


Braves shifting focusd to left field

According to ESPN's Jayson Stark, the Atlanta Braves have shifted their focus from improving their starting rotation to finding a left fielder. Sources from other clubs have said that the Braves are only considering guys who would represent another "certified threat" in their lineup.

Raul Ibanez, Jason Bay and Xavier Nady are some names that Stark suggests could be potential targets. Matt Holliday appears to be too expensive for the Braves, especially considering how much they gave up last summer for Mark Teixeira.


Think we know someone who qualifies?

I(heart)Freel
07-04-2008, 08:55 AM
Then there's this...


Victorino could help Phils land starter

According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, Shane Victorino could be a key chip for the Phillies in their effort to acquire a front-of-the-rotation starting pitcher.
Victorino would be an attractive piece to teams looking to sell at the deadline because he is under control for three more seasons and will be arbitration eligible for the first time this winter.

Jayson Werth, Carlos Carrasco, Lou Marson, Greg Golson and Adrian Cardenas are some of the other players in the organization who could be used in a package for a starter. However, the decision to gut the farm system in an attempt to win the World Series this season is not an easy one, and only team officials know for sure what direction the club is leaning.

I'd be kool and the gang with Arroyo for the flying Hawaiian. Solves leadoff and centerfield for foreseeable future.

schmidty622
07-04-2008, 09:23 AM
Ugh, Victorino only has a career .336 OBP and a .733 Career OPS. Better than Patterson but not exactly the best lead off option in the world.

Jack Burton
07-04-2008, 09:24 AM
This was stupid.

Lockdwn11
07-04-2008, 09:44 AM
Ok, A few things Nothing is final but I have talk to others on this board by way of PM and didn't give them much of what I have been told to see if this was real and they told me pretty much the same info I have received so a deal is being worked out and all I can say is we have some pretty smart posters here at the Redszone.

All the info you need to know to find out whats going on is right here in this thread. Could the deal fall through and not happen? Sure it could but A DEAL IS BEING WORKED OUT you can believe it or you can think this is all BS as some have already said I could care less this info is for the people who want it not you. So if its all BS don't waist your time in reading this thread.

stfm965
07-04-2008, 09:58 AM
Just to add on to Lockdwn11:

I'm not telling you anything new when I say that these trade discussions are all very tentative and ALL gm's are very fickle and for no apparent reason one of the gm's involved can pull out.

Here's the caveat, most of the basic package has been agreed upon which I know that other posters on here can confirm. There are some outlying issues that are being worked out.

I know how annoying it is that I sound so vague and I'm sorry that AT THIS TIME it's all I can give you.

Ghosts of 1990
07-04-2008, 10:17 AM
Victorino would be a nice #2 hitter behind hairston...... he can handle the bat and would set the table nicely. Those two can cause a lot of problems at the top of our order.

Lockdwn11
07-04-2008, 10:45 AM
Here is a link to the BS.I don't know anything about this site or the writer so take it for what its worth.


http://ohiosportsnews.blogspot.com/

redhawk61
07-04-2008, 10:52 AM
Here is a link to the BS.I don't know much about this site or the writer so take it for what its worth.


http://ohiosportsnews.blogspot.com/
"OSN has learned that the Cincinnati Reds are in the process of completing a deal with the Philadelphia Phillies.

The Reds will send Bronson Arroyo and a utility player to Philadelphia for CF Shane Victorino and a prospect."


so is that what you guys have been hearing abou

Lockdwn11
07-04-2008, 11:00 AM
We can neither confirm or deny this story.

stfm965
07-04-2008, 11:06 AM
I'm going to hold off on commenting for now. Give me some time

FlyingPig
07-04-2008, 11:08 AM
So Bronson's going to pitch today..last his usual 4 2/3 innings and pack up for Philly.

See..I figured it out. :cool:

Orodle
07-04-2008, 11:16 AM
so Arroyo gets his brains beat in today and the Phillies back off......

redsfanfalcon
07-04-2008, 11:41 AM
Here we are about an hour and a half from gametime, and still no lineups on any site? Is John Fay off for the 4th? If so, his fill in would have it in by now.

highheat11
07-04-2008, 11:44 AM
I just saw on MLBTradeRumors.com that the Marlins are interested in David Ross.

Trace's Daddy
07-04-2008, 11:50 AM
If they get Victorino, does he rotate at CF with Bruce? That would suck.

redsfanfalcon
07-04-2008, 11:52 AM
Arroyo is in today's lineup as posted per Fay. Also posted, Hopper to the DL, Harang skipped tomorrow with tightness in his forearm, and Fogg up to make the start.

captainmorgan07
07-04-2008, 11:55 AM
Saw on the ORG that the proposed deal is Arroyo and either Patterson or Hairston for Victorino and a propsect. The phillies are trieng to get us to add a reliever into the mix.

stfm965
07-04-2008, 11:56 AM
Ok here's an update...

The major pieces are in place

the haggling is over the pieces that fill out the trade

From both sides

Arroyo will start...may not go long....not because of his performance though

Anything can still happen....TIFWIW...it could potentially fall through

Very few trades get this far along only to die...but its happened before

Newman4
07-04-2008, 11:57 AM
Update from OhioSportsNews:

Prospect included in Arroyo deal
A catching prospect has been rumored to be included in the possible Arroyo deal.

Lou Marson and Jason Jaramillo are the two catchers that could possible be dealt.

Marson is the #1 ranked catcher in the organization and 8th overall according to Baseball America. He is hitting .331 with a staggering .452 OBP as a 21 year old in AA.

Jaramillo is right behind Marson on the catching depth chart and is 10th overall according to Baseball America. The 25 year old is hitting .254 with 5 home runs and 27 RBIs, but is thought to have more advanced defensive skills then the younger Marson.

We'll keep you posted

stfm965
07-04-2008, 12:03 PM
To be completely honest, I don't know much about this site....


but to put it mildly....I'm refreshing pretty often today LOL

dsmith421
07-04-2008, 12:13 PM
Victorino would be a great addition. My only worry is that the utility guy from our end is Keppy rather than Hairston (SELL HIGH!) or Patterson.

Newman4
07-04-2008, 12:13 PM
Update again:

EDIT 11:57AM: Keep your eye on SS Jason Donald. It's a long shot for Reds fans at this point, but if the deal becomes bigger, he's a key that could be added to the mix.

scuba17
07-04-2008, 12:28 PM
Why would Philly want Arroryo? He's been awful this year and would be heading to an even bigger hitter paradise.

wojo1025
07-04-2008, 12:45 PM
Would Victorino and a prospect make everyone happy when the Reds are giving up Arroyo and possibly Hariston? I know Hariston is seemingly playing over his head and Arroyo has been hit or miss, so I am just curious if you guys feel like this would be a fair trade?

NeilHamburger
07-04-2008, 12:46 PM
There is a rumor floating about that the Reds and Phillies are working on a Bronson Arroyo for Shane Victorino swap. However, the Cincinnati Enquirer ran the report by a Reds official who said there's nothing to it. Many thanks to Reds beat writer John Fay, who keeps a blog here.

from mlbtraderumors

stfm965
07-04-2008, 12:54 PM
Im working on something right now. Don't hold your breath.

aerontg
07-04-2008, 01:15 PM
I'm working on something, too. Just popped my meds. Lunch is just about ready. Wait, I was supposed to take my meds *after* lunch. ;)

ChatterRed
07-04-2008, 01:16 PM
What a bunch of BS. People should be ashamed coming on here saying "I know something you don't know".

mole44
07-04-2008, 01:25 PM
Arroyo for Victorino would be a steal and half. Walt should be arrested if he pulled that off. And I'd bale him out personally!

FlyerFanatic
07-04-2008, 01:28 PM
What a bunch of BS. People should be ashamed coming on here saying "I know something you don't know".

agreed..its nice to hear something even if it is from someone who is in the know..but whats the point of going..look at me, i know you dont. if you cant post it..why even post? why not go heres my prediction: then boom insert what you heard

LouisvilleCARDS
07-04-2008, 01:35 PM
agreed..its nice to hear something even if it is from someone who is in the know..but whats the point of going..look at me, i know you dont. if you cant post it..why even post? why not go heres my prediction: then boom insert what you heard

I agree, really, if you're not even going to give a hint they should just shut up. It's arrogant and its being a jerk.

Brutus
07-04-2008, 01:43 PM
I'm not pointing fingers, nor do I want anyone to take this personally...

But as someone that's "enlightened" in other fields, I've always been able to spot people that I deem credible when it comes to information. And typically, the ones you can trust most (unless they've an established track record) are the ones that don't make a big deal about the fact they "know" something.

The ones that are purposely vague and not seeking attention when they post something are more times than not the most credible. Again, that's not an indictment of anyone in particular, but being in a profession that I deal with sensitive information myself, I know how to handle it and it gives you the ability to weed out the bad info from others.

Another thing that happens when people step up to the plate and claim insider status is that often it's regurgitated stuff that originated from one or two individuals, and they play private message and e-mail tag, and then run to the public forum to say they have info... which of course they can't even share because they were told in confidence (via another poster that did the same thing, usually).

Again, not pointing fingers, but in reality, this encompasses 90 percent of the self-proclaimed insiders. Sad, but true.

To those on this thread claiming knowledge, I do not want you to take offense. That's not a jab at anyone... merely me explaining my own skeptical, cynical motto.

stfm965
07-04-2008, 01:57 PM
Brutus that all makes total sense and I know where you're coming from.


In terms of "the rumor" I guess the only thing for me to say is that it's not over til the fat lady sings

757690
07-04-2008, 02:04 PM
If the Arroyo for Victorino trade happens, it is a trade aimed at next year and beyond.

The Reds need outfielders for next year, especially a CF. Removing Arroyo's contract off the books puts the Reds in a great financial situation next year. They can spend that on a catcher and or a end of the rotation starter.

I know Saber guys will hate this, but Victorino may only have so-so offensive stats, but I two friends who are Phillies fans, and even with all the All-Stars on the team, they say Victorino is a team MVP. He basically is the type of player that does something to help the team win every game. He is a real baseball player who knows how to play the game, who always hustles, and has outstanding fundamentals. I think it is obvious that the Reds need more players like him.

I think the fact that the Reds are targeting guys like him means that Jocketty understands the need to change the personality and culture of the team. I am all for that.

Lockdwn11
07-04-2008, 02:08 PM
The only thing I have said I KNOW for sure is it isn't DUNN. Everything else I was speculating right along with the rest of you go back and read my posts.It's all speculation until it happens anyways

Brutus
07-04-2008, 02:08 PM
If the Arroyo for Victorino trade happens, it is a trade aimed at next year and beyond.

The Reds need outfielders for next year, especially a CF. Removing Arroyo's contract off the books puts the Reds in a great financial situation next year. They can spend that on a catcher and or a end of the rotation starter.

I know Saber guys will hate this, but Victorino may only have so-so offensive stats, but I two friends who are Phillies fans, and even with all the All-Stars on the team, they say Victorino is a team MVP. He basically is the type of player that does something to help the team win every game. He is a real baseball player who knows how to play the game, who always hustles, and has outstanding fundamentals. I think it is obvious that the Reds need more players like him.

I think the fact that the Reds are targeting guys like him means that Jocketty understands the need to change the personality and culture of the team. I am all for that.

I know someone from Philadelphia too, and he's a big Phils fan and he says the exact same thing. He loves Victorino.

I don't think anyone claims Victorino will turn the Reds around, but he is the exact kind of player I think they need for next year.

yab1112
07-04-2008, 02:18 PM
I would love to see Victorino here, especially if it means getting BA's salary off the books. But if another move isnt made with Griffey or Dunn, (like other ppl mentioned b4) where does he play this yr?

pitcher7
07-04-2008, 02:19 PM
Believe it or not, the demand for starting pitching is always high. Though victorino's speed and defense will be missed, the Phillies have several players who could replace him, not to mention a top prospect in AA waiting in the wings. Arroyo may not be pitching well now, but a change of scenery onto a team with a winning record and one looking to go to the post season may just be the push and motivation he needs to do better. It worked in Boston

ChatterRed
07-04-2008, 02:32 PM
Can you imagine if the Reds traded Arroyo, Griffey, Dunn, Cordero and Harang? Talk about low payroll. Even at th end of the season, Griffey and Dunn will walk.

Jack Burton
07-04-2008, 02:49 PM
The phillies aren't stupid enough to trade Victorino for Arroyo, ain't gonna happen.

ChatterRed
07-04-2008, 02:53 PM
Sometimes losing begats a losing mentality. Maybe they think a pennant chase will energize Arroyo and he will regain his form. He has had some good starts. He's just spotty, with a few really bad outings tainting his era.

Anyway, if the Reds can make that deal, I'd jump all over it. Not that I think Victorino is anything special...........but mostly a solid defensive outfielder who would add more speed on the bases. He turns 28 in November. The key is unloading Arroyo's salary.

FlyerFanatic
07-04-2008, 02:57 PM
there is no way...i mean no way the phils are trading victorino for arroyo. that talk should just stop.

757690
07-04-2008, 02:58 PM
The phillies aren't stupid enough to trade Victorino for Arroyo, ain't gonna happen.

Teams in contention for the playoffs with smarter GM's have made dumber moves in order to acquire enough pitching to stay in contention.

And the rumored deal is Arroyo plus Hairston for Victorino, which makes more sense.

Not saying it will happen, but it is a plausible rumor.

stfm965
07-04-2008, 03:33 PM
I would NEVER underestimate the desire to acquire starting pitching...especially from a team like Philadelphia.

There's also something to be said for a little luxury known as "run support" that Arroyo would have in Philly that he has not been so lucky with in Cincinnati.

redhawk61
07-04-2008, 05:12 PM
at mlbtraderumors in the comments part for the news calling the trade bogus a person left this:

"on an unrelated note i work for the reds and we have a closed circuit feed for fox sports net and they were running graphics for Pat Burrell with Reds logos. i dont know if they do that normally or what but just an interesting note."

This I believe was made before OSN posted their story that was similar. It could be something or could be the same person trying to get attention....

redhawk61
07-04-2008, 05:15 PM
OSN:

The Reds have given OSN an official response regarding the trade rumors surrounding Bronson Arroyo.

When asked if the team had a comment on the situation, Reds PR man Rob Butcher responded "we do not"

More reaction from the Reds is expected after any roster transaction
-------------
I really would like to know if OSN is legit

stfm965
07-04-2008, 05:19 PM
I was in the office when I saw exactly what the commenter on mlbtr saw and what the OSN source saw....I can say this: many people saw it and it's not outside the realm of possibility that a different source fed it to OSN

redhawk61
07-04-2008, 05:20 PM
I was in the office when I saw exactly what the commenter on mlbtr saw and what the OSN source saw....I can say this: many people saw it and it's not outside the realm of possibility that a different source fed it to OSN
wait, you work for the reds

realreds1
07-04-2008, 05:23 PM
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a311/lennonsong/GreatPumpkin.jpg

David Cubbedge
07-04-2008, 05:24 PM
stfm965,

Is this rumor dead?

stfm965
07-04-2008, 05:29 PM
I know this is a weak answer, but nothing is dead until 12:00 (or whenever this year's tims is) on Jul 31.

There are still talks. Is it as likely as it was 24 hours ago? I'm not sure, only Walt and Mr. Gillick know that. But I wouldn't rule anything out by any means.

While I'm here, I want to say that I'm not really a fan of blogs or anything like that, but I guess I'm just old school. That said, I have found myself checking ohiosportsnews today not because I'm a rumor junky just because of their info.

David Cubbedge
07-04-2008, 05:32 PM
So the chatter has decreased quite a bit...

Brutus
07-04-2008, 05:42 PM
I was in the office when I saw exactly what the commenter on mlbtr saw and what the OSN source saw....I can say this: many people saw it and it's not outside the realm of possibility that a different source fed it to OSN

Certainly it's not out of the realm of possibility to see something like Adam Dunn Jerry Hairston and Bronson Arroyo for Pat Burrell, Shane Victorino and a prospect.

I just don't think that's far-fetched. I know Philadelphia is in the middle of a pennant run, so people wonder why they would trade Burrell, but if they feel they're going to lose him (and the Reds feel the same about Dunn), perhaps a change of scenery for both could prompt either to sign an extension and get some new blood. And for the Phillies, they improve their club in the interim.

I'd also keep my eyes on Aaron Harang. Having his start pushed back because of "lingering soreness" could be a red herring. Perhaps he's about to be moved?

I think there's some smoke for legitimate reasons. Whether anything comes to fruition is another story.

TC81190
07-04-2008, 05:49 PM
Wow, I'd really like to get Burrell back in a deal with the Phils. I assume it's not true, but if it is, I doubt Homer Bailey is a Red any longer.

Brutus
07-04-2008, 05:53 PM
Wow, I'd really like to get Burrell back in a deal with the Phils. I assume it's not true, but if it is, I doubt Homer Bailey is a Red any longer.

Yeah I think Homer will be traded too, though not necessarily in this deal.

By the way, I should have added that I don't necessarily believe Burrell will be traded. In fact, I still do not. But my point is that I actually do not at all discredit there's a possibility, and do not rule out the idea. It very much seems plausible to me.

SoTxRedsFan
07-04-2008, 06:37 PM
Love all the speculation. It makes watching a bad team more fun, but I'm doubting anything happens. I think we're being taken for a ride.

NorrisHopper30
07-04-2008, 06:40 PM
Wow, I'd really like to get Burrell back in a deal with the Phils. I assume it's not true, but if it is, I doubt Homer Bailey is a Red any longer.

Burrell? He's worse defensively than Dunn and has less pop.

MrBrownPink
07-04-2008, 06:43 PM
The phillies aren't stupid enough to trade Victorino for Arroyo, ain't gonna happen.

I'm a Phillies fan and I'd go for the trade. We're in dire need of another decent starting pitcher and have other options in outfield.

ChatterRed
07-04-2008, 06:46 PM
How'd you like to be the Phillies regular who gets traded to the last place Reds? From contention to detention. Hahaha.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-04-2008, 06:48 PM
Why trade Homer? The dude is still ridiculously young, and he's probably as low as he's going to get in trade value. You guys would sell stocks as soon as they dropped a buck out of panic I think.

TC81190
07-04-2008, 06:49 PM
Why trade Homer? The dude is still ridiculously young, and he's probably as low as he's going to get in trade value. You guys would sell stocks as soon as they dropped a buck out of panic I think.

I don't think Homer is a lost cause by any means, but if trading him got us Pat Burrell, I'd do it in a second.

ChatterRed
07-04-2008, 06:50 PM
I want more than Burrell if Homer is traded.

I'd like to package Homer with someone else and get some good return.

TC81190
07-04-2008, 06:55 PM
I want more than Burrell if Homer is traded.

I'd like to package Homer with someone else and get some good return.
Burrell is currently 4th in the NL in OPS, and would lead our team in OPS, and tie for lead in HR. Sounds like an OK return to me.

TheBigLebowski
07-04-2008, 07:02 PM
I think we're being taken for a ride as well. Obviously, at some point, a trade will happen. However, it is painfully obvious that whatever "went down" or was "going down" did not materialize.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-04-2008, 07:15 PM
If Homer is being traded, I would do it for that catcher that is supposedly untouchable. I just don't get trading Homer, a prospect, for Burrell. We need to get younger and get guys who are the future, not trade for higher priced guys when we aren't going to compete anyway.

stfm965
07-04-2008, 08:09 PM
Does anyone know who is behind that blog? As I keep hearing things, it becomes more congruent with the info on the blog.

I would be skeptical of the burrell thing too, but I saw what he/she is reporting with my own eyes. Also I can confirm that what he/she is reporting about Butcher.


I'm pretty weary of this internet crapola but if anyone knows who this person is, we should talk to them, their info seems solid.

I'm still weary though. How can I not be?

redhawk61
07-04-2008, 08:12 PM
Does anyone know who is behind that blog? As I keep hearing things, it becomes more congruent with the info on the blog.

I would be skeptical of the burrell thing too, but I saw what he/she is reporting with my own eyes. Also I can confirm that what he/she is reporting about Butcher.


I'm pretty weary of this internet crapola but if anyone knows who this person is, we should talk to them, their info seems solid.

I'm still weary though. How can I not be?
Is it you?;):rolleyes:

757690
07-04-2008, 08:16 PM
Does anyone know who is behind that blog? As I keep hearing things, it becomes more congruent with the info on the blog.

I would be skeptical of the burrell thing too, but I saw what he/she is reporting with my own eyes. Also I can confirm that what he/she is reporting about Butcher.


I'm pretty weary of this internet crapola but if anyone knows who this person is, we should talk to them, their info seems solid.

I'm still weary though. How can I not be?

The ORG is ridiculing the OSN guy because he is just a blogger. Well, C. Trent is just a blogger too. And this guy at OSN is a blogger who is able to talk on the record to Rob Butcher about the rumor, or at least is able to hear what Rob Butcher has to say on the record about the rumor. That make him much more than "just a blogger" And he has gotten everything else right.

I am very interested in finding out who this guy is too.

stfm965
07-04-2008, 08:19 PM
To be honest, I kind of wish it were me hahaha but some stuff with my work prevents me from blog-ing (is that the verb of the action of blog? LOL) and chronicling stuff publically.

TheBigLebowski
07-04-2008, 08:19 PM
The ORG is ridiculing the OSN guy because he is just a blogger. Well, C. Trent is just a blogger too. And this guy at OSN is a blogger who is able to talk on the record to Rob Butcher about the rumor, or at least is able to hear what Rob Butcher has to say on the record about the rumor. That make him much more than "just a blogger" And he has gotten everything else right.

I am very interested in finding out who this guy is too.

DB Cooper?

David Cubbedge
07-04-2008, 08:47 PM
Lockdwn11 introduced us to that blog. Start from there...

David Cubbedge
07-04-2008, 08:52 PM
Anyone know of a Phillies message board or blog that has anything in regard to this "rumor?"

David Cubbedge
07-04-2008, 09:04 PM
Also, Victorino and Happ started tonight. Perhaps the wanted to have one of them going tonight as the Reds needed Arroyo to do the same. One last game before the trade? It would be a bit tough to trade a pitcher the day before his scheduled start. Then you would have to find a pitcher to take his spot in the rotation. With Harang going down, perhaps they didn't want to have to call up two pitchers? Maybe this has something to do with sftm's words on "timing."

757690
07-04-2008, 09:42 PM
Victorino just got the game winning hit with two outs in the 9th against the Mets. I guess the Phillies are glad they didn't make the trade today.

NeilHamburger
07-04-2008, 10:11 PM
I was in the bathroom today, I looked down in the toilet and was shocked at what I saw. Arranged in the bowl was the answer, not a answer, no THE answer. With my fecal matter arranged in perfect grammatical form I now know the secret. I can't say it right now, I'm afraid my fecal matter would find out and it would compromise their position in the sewage system, but lets just say some of your guesses are close.

I'll post more when I think it's safe

TeamSelig
07-04-2008, 11:16 PM
This thread is a pretty good joke. I bet these "insiders" are laughing hysterically.... I would be, wish I thought of it.

lidspinner
07-05-2008, 12:38 AM
This thread is a pretty good joke. I bet these "insiders" are laughing hysterically.... I would be, wish I thought of it.

exactly....anyone with enugh "inside credibilty" wouldn't be on here tellign us squat. I do agree with stfm's rumnors, I am sure he has heard something but from "who" is the big question......Hell, my dad's partner in condo reall estate is a scout for the Reds and he dont know squat, all he knows is who the reds tell him to scout. I love hearing all the stories that people hear, such as teh thread starter, stfm, but you have to take it all with a grain of salt. unless someone has Castelini bloodlines, I will look at all rumors with a blind eye.

ChatterRed
07-05-2008, 01:50 AM
Heck, I was sitting at a bar the other night next to a guy in a nice suit who said his firm (which he owns) works for the Reds and he's friends with Bob Castellini. He gave me alot of good info as to who Bob likes and dislikes and what he wants to do, but I'm not going to spill it all on here............it's hearsay and the guy could have been pulling my chain, although he was in his mid-50's, looked very professional, and came across as very believable.

stfm965
07-05-2008, 01:51 AM
And you absolutely should and of course I have no objection with that. Until this thing actually happens (or doesn't happen) I won't be certain of its credibility either. Thats just the nature of the beast.

stfm965
07-05-2008, 02:00 AM
Also just noticed this from OSN...

A Happy Fourth and an Explanation
First of all we know that it has been a hectic 24 hours at OSN and around RedlegNation. However, from all of us at the OhioSportsNews family, we want to wish each and everyone of you a happy Fourth of July and hope that your day was one befitting the celebration of the birth of our great country.

We are aware that over the preceding day we have come under the spotlight because of our reporting of the Arroyo-Victorino rumors.

Despite our brevity of existence and our anonymity, we are very confident in our sources and are grateful for their generous sharing of information. In our Mission Statement, we outline that our foremost goal is to make sure that you, the reader, is given information with expediency and integrity.

We feel strongly that the media outlet should never be the story, rather that the news should be the story. It is more than fair to question our validity or the legitimacy of our sources, however we will never stop working every angle of a story in order to provide you with the most information possible until the story is dead.

We welcome any comments. Please send them to ohiosportsnews@gmail.com


We are committed to our cause and will continue with gathering information on the Arroyo Rumors, the Sabathia Rumors, and any other news in the Buckeye State.

We just wanted to take this time to step back and offer, however brief, a look into what we strive to do here at OSN, and to, of course, wish everyone a happy and safe Indepence Day.


Thank you very much for your continued readership,


OhioSportsNews Staff
---------------------------------------------------------


Already shot them an email haha

ChatterRed
07-05-2008, 02:56 AM
In other words, they are covering their butts.

stfm965
07-05-2008, 10:16 AM
Got a response back, figured it was worth sharing.

------------------------------------------------

From: stfm965@yahoo.com
To: ohiosportsnews@gmail.com
OSN,

Because of the lack of accountability and credibility from blog-ing and your website's short lifetime, I, along with many of my fellow Reds fans, have no reason to believe what your site reports. I hope you don't take offense to this, as this is just the (reasonable) view expressed by many of us fans.

Thank you,

stfm965


From: ohiosportsnews@gmail.com
To: stfm965@yahoo.com

Dear stfm965,

We would like to thank you for your email and it is in-line with many of the emails we have received from readers. We expect everything we report/speculate to be taken at face value. We know that we must build trust with our readers.

The top level of our staff are all people who are not new to the media scene in Ohio and most have extensive relationships with many of the teams around the state. We are aware that by saying this we do not automatically warrant credibility.

We ask for this: give us the benefit of the doubt. If there is anything that you or any of the other fans about whom you speak would like to hear from us about, we would be more than happy to oblige.


Thank you again for your comment,

the OSN Staff

Stephenk29
07-05-2008, 10:54 AM
this should put this to rest.


Arroyo For Victorino Rumor Is Bogus

Posted: 04 Jul 2008 11:40 AM CDT

There is a rumor floating about that the Reds and Phillies are working on a Bronson Arroyo for Shane Victorino swap. However, the Cincinnati Enquirer ran the report by a Reds official who said there's nothing to it. Many thanks to Reds beat writer John Fay, who keeps a blog here.

-mlbtraderumors

texasdave
07-05-2008, 11:09 AM
I was in the bathroom today, I looked down in the toilet and was shocked at what I saw. Arranged in the bowl was the answer, not a answer, no THE answer. With my fecal matter arranged in perfect grammatical form I now know the secret. I can't say it right now, I'm afraid my fecal matter would find out and it would compromise their position in the sewage system, but lets just say some of your guesses are close.

I'll post more when I think it's safe

You mean we're making a trade with the Cubs???? :)

stfm965
07-05-2008, 11:34 AM
I don't think the MLBTR thing puts anything to rest. TIFWIW but there has been movement since that was posted which was 24 hours ago....an eternity in the world of trades

757690
07-05-2008, 12:48 PM
this should put this to rest.


Arroyo For Victorino Rumor Is Bogus

Posted: 04 Jul 2008 11:40 AM CDT

There is a rumor floating about that the Reds and Phillies are working on a Bronson Arroyo for Shane Victorino swap. However, the Cincinnati Enquirer ran the report by a Reds official who said there's nothing to it. Many thanks to Reds beat writer John Fay, who keeps a blog here.

-mlbtraderumors


This history of baseball is littered with team officials issuing denials right before what they are denying happens. I believe the same thing happened with the Reds when they signed Fogg. An official denied it, and he was in camp a few hours later.

Not saying the rumor is true, just that a team official offering a denial to a beat writers is about as reliable as the rumor itself.

stfm965
07-05-2008, 01:47 PM
LOL That's most certainly true. I forgot about the Fogg story.

Lockdwn11
07-05-2008, 03:50 PM
Lockdwn11 introduced us to that blog. Start from there...

If you want to start here I can tell you I had that link forwarded to me in a PM I'm not going to tell you who it was. If he/she wants you to know they can tell you. I said when I posted the link "I don't know anything about this site or the writer so take it for what its worth."

stfm965
07-05-2008, 04:10 PM
I can confirm what Lockdwn is saying. It was forwarded to me too from a poster on here and I have spoken with them and they know nothing either about the blog.

David Cubbedge
07-05-2008, 04:21 PM
So I take it one of the teams had a "change of heart." I enjoyed this all day/night yesterday and even tinkered with the thought while lying in bed the last few nights. But this trade is dead regardless of whether it was real or not. Obviously it is no longer an issue.

Next...

Lockdwn11
07-05-2008, 04:31 PM
nm

David Cubbedge
07-05-2008, 05:09 PM
OSN:


OhioSportNews.com has learned that the much-rumored deal between the Reds and Phillies is currently on hold.

While there are conflicting reports as to why the deal may be "on life support" (direct quote), the most common being told to OhioSportNews.com is one that may surprise Reds fans.

The main pieces were and are in place, however the problems arise from the "bit players or prospects to be thrown in."

It seems the Reds are insisting on a player who is regarded as a top prospect while the Phillies are angling for "two B-Level prospects as opposed to one A-Level prospect."

stfm965
07-05-2008, 05:18 PM
Interesting.

I haven't heard that yet but I'll ask around.

757690
07-05-2008, 05:22 PM
OSN:

If this is true, then I think there is good chance the trade will happen, just not as soon as everyone was expecting.

It seems the Reds are playing a waiting game, because they can. They are waiting for the Phillies to become even more desperate than they currently are. If the Reds make this trade today or July 31, it doesn't matter. They know they can always accept the current Phillies offer, and hold out to see if the Phillies buckle and give them a better one. The only risk is if Arroyo gets injured.

I am betting it goes down in some form before July 31.

David Cubbedge
07-05-2008, 05:26 PM
I think its a bigger risk to sit on it and lose the potential to trade Arroyo for anything we can get. Arroyo's contract has to go. If he holds off, Gillick may come to his senses.

stfm965
07-05-2008, 05:31 PM
Just made some phone calls...

There isn't much to report that OSN hasn't just reported already.

I guess I just got scooped by blog LOL :)

But the info is pretty much spot on

Newman4
07-05-2008, 05:33 PM
I was in the bathroom today, I looked down in the toilet and was shocked at what I saw. Arranged in the bowl was the answer, not a answer, no THE answer. With my fecal matter arranged in perfect grammatical form I now know the secret. I can't say it right now, I'm afraid my fecal matter would find out and it would compromise their position in the sewage system, but lets just say some of your guesses are close.

I'll post more when I think it's safe

Neil, I think OhioSportNews.com and your toilet are very similar. :)

Sabathia could be traded "as soon as tonight" and the Reds are interested in Pat Burrell. :rolleyes:

This blog is only 4 days old also.

stfm965
07-05-2008, 05:36 PM
haha in fairness to whoever these people are, I was in the office when the Burrell incident happened and I dont think the blog or whoever is insinuating that the Reds are interested in Burrell but more that there was some weird occurence where his name was thrown around.

ChatterRed
07-05-2008, 05:37 PM
I heard the Braves have entered the picture, trying to block this trade. Just what I heard.

Newman4
07-05-2008, 05:37 PM
haha in fairness to whoever these people are, I was in the office when the Burrell incident happened and I dont think the blog or whoever is insinuating that the Reds are interested in Burrell but more that there was some weird occurence where his name was thrown around.

So you work in the Reds front office?

David Cubbedge
07-05-2008, 05:43 PM
I think he works in the back office

David Cubbedge
07-05-2008, 05:44 PM
I heard the Braves have entered the picture, trying to block this trade. Just what I heard.

Another person is hearing something now? How many of you guys have ears?

757690
07-05-2008, 06:01 PM
I heard the Braves have entered the picture, trying to block this trade. Just what I heard.

If this is true, it means a bidding war for Arroyo. Who woulda thunk it?

Newman4
07-05-2008, 06:16 PM
Another person is hearing something now? How many of you guys have ears?

A lot of people have ears, they just can't hear with their head up their rear ends. :D

stfm965
07-05-2008, 06:32 PM
The braves stuff is news to me.

David Cubbedge
07-05-2008, 06:40 PM
The braves stuff is news to me.


Let me guess, that is what will will be expecting on the blog next? I figured the Braves were sellers. Teixeira and Hudson should be on their block. They shouldn't be shopping for Arroyo right now.

David Cubbedge
07-05-2008, 06:54 PM
I still wonder why we haven't heard a peep of this coming from the Phillies side...

Not one message board, newspaper, blog, website or anything of the kind has any Phillies discussion on this matter whatsoever.

stfm965
07-05-2008, 07:00 PM
there was something on philliesphans.com I think

Redsndyt
07-05-2008, 10:27 PM
From OSN


All-Star Roster leaked...Tough draw for Ohio baseball teams
According to a report from SI, the New York Post has announced the starting lineups for the All Star game at Yankee Stadium.

For the Reds, Ken Griffey Jr. has been announced as one of the outfield starters joining division rival Kosuke Fukodome and injured Alfonso Soriano of the Chicago Cubs. Despite his impressive numbers, prospective Reds all star Edinson Volquez was not named the All Star starter with that nod going to the Diamondbacks' Brandon Webb.

On the other hand, one Indian was announced as part of the All Star starting nine, as Cliff Lee has been given the honor to start for the AL squad due to his break out season this first half.

Root Down
07-05-2008, 10:30 PM
I wouldn't believe anything coming from OSN, the more of their crap I read the less credible they (probably singular, he) seems.

pitcher7
07-05-2008, 10:36 PM
Just saw this update from OSN...a link from SI


EDIT 10:36: Link to http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/05/all.star.starters.ap/index.html

Kingspoint
07-05-2008, 10:57 PM
Its not Dunn. Dunn won't be traded. Its not Griffey. Griffey won't be traded.

If anything, it's arroyo. I think Arroyo is brutal. It would surprise me if he drew any interest or anything substantial in return. Therefore if its arroyo, then I really could care less. I'd be happy we don't have to pay him the next few years to throw like a AAA starter though.

Dunn needs to be traded....badly. The REDS have many, many players to replace him at 1/20th the cost. Scouts around the league already believe Dunn's batspeed is slowing down in his career.

He's a clog in the way of many other REDS players who will hit decently in the Majors and play solid defense.

Dunn's been great and fun, but his career would be better spent somewhere else, not in Cincinnati.

OUReds
07-05-2008, 11:21 PM
Not really the right thread for this, and I understand the arguements against re-signing Dunn, but to think that any in house replacement next year will come within 100 points of OPS of Dunn is a pipe dream.

Kingspoint
07-05-2008, 11:30 PM
Not really the right thread for this, and I understand the arguements against re-signing Dunn, but to think that any in house replacement next year will come within 100 points of OPS of Dunn is a pipe dream.

Not next year, but the year after. There will be a one year gap where someone else can play Leftfield. But, if they sign Dunn to anything longer than a 1 year contract, then Alonzo and a trio of Outfielders with OPS' around .850 at AA right now who are all 22-23 years old will be blocked from getting to the Majors. Dickerson should be in the Majors next year. He's been OPS-ing around .900-950 ever since Bruce was called up along with a bucket full of Stolen Bases. Dickerson has turned on a light and stepped up to another level in his game.

Signing Dunn would be equivalent to trading for Junior many years ago or resigning Larkin with that huge 3-year contract.

OUReds
07-05-2008, 11:44 PM
Not next year, but the year after. There will be a one year gap where someone else can play Leftfield. But, if they sign Dunn to anything longer than a 1 year contract, then Alonzo and a trio of Outfielders with OPS' around .850 at AA right now who are all 22-23 years old will be blocked from getting to the Majors. Dickerson should be in the Majors next year. He's been OPS-ing around .900-950 ever since Bruce was called up along with a bucket full of Stolen Bases. Dickerson has turned on a light and stepped up to another level in his game.

Signing Dunn would be equivalent to trading for Junior many years ago or resigning Larkin with that huge 3-year contract.

As a 22 year old Dunn was busy OPSing .850 also... in the major leagues. Obviously I hope you are right, but I think you are being overly optimistic.

TeamSelig
07-06-2008, 12:59 AM
I can't believe the mods let unfamiliar posters pretend to be insiders. They are usually no non-sense kinda guys... where you at?

stfm965
07-06-2008, 10:06 AM
just because some of us don't post very often doesn't mean we're unfamiliar to the moderators.

levydl
07-06-2008, 11:48 AM
Not next year, but the year after. There will be a one year gap where someone else can play Leftfield. But, if they sign Dunn to anything longer than a 1 year contract, then Alonzo and a trio of Outfielders with OPS' around .850 at AA right now who are all 22-23 years old will be blocked from getting to the Majors. Dickerson should be in the Majors next year. He's been OPS-ing around .900-950 ever since Bruce was called up along with a bucket full of Stolen Bases. Dickerson has turned on a light and stepped up to another level in his game.

Signing Dunn would be equivalent to trading for Junior many years ago or resigning Larkin with that huge 3-year contract.



Come on. I can accept the argument (though I don't agree with it) that Dunn will just be too expensive and we have some prospects who could be major league ready in another year, but Dunn will turn 29 at the end of this year. Barry Larkin was 37 years old when the Reds resigned him. How is that at all similar?

Redsndyt
07-06-2008, 12:27 PM
But anonymity doesn't always mean a site isn't legitimate, and the point is not to trash OSN.



This comment from Fay just has me puzzled. Why would he say this? Do you think he knows something about them?

TeamSelig
07-06-2008, 12:30 PM
What I mean is that you guys have no credibility to be on here teasing about trade rumors. If you supposedly CAN'T say anything, you wouldn't be here trying to stir everything up again and again.

The made up "rumors" are obviously dead. So why can't you tell us what the deal is? Is it because there never was a deal?

stfm965
07-06-2008, 04:13 PM
Like I and many others have said, deals are never dead til Jul 31.

NeilHamburger
07-06-2008, 04:15 PM
Exactly, stfm965 I think you're full of it and have no sources. There I wrote what countless others (including tons who I've talked to on here) think. At least that's what my sources say.

river2109
07-06-2008, 04:46 PM
Have OSN's reports not been pretty accurate thus far? Anonymity aside, these people seem to be pretty legit.

NeilHamburger
07-06-2008, 04:50 PM
How have they been accurate? They've given no names, and no trades have been made. It's July, so of course there are trade discussions. I can do what they do watch.


I have a source working for the Reds, according to him the reds are very close, he used the words "almost a done deal", to making a big trade. I can't give any names right now, but some of your guesses are close. I have to check on a few things and I'll get back to you.


Pretty easy, and my sources float around in my toilet.

David Cubbedge
07-06-2008, 04:51 PM
Surely the mods have the hack that share which of you brand new posters are sharing the same IP address. Any help? Sounds like too many brand new posters on here are defending OSN.

No soup for who, and who, and who?

stfm965
07-06-2008, 04:56 PM
Firstly, I am not defending OSN, I'm not even talking about OSN. I don't like blogs, I don't read blogs, and I don't know anyone who reads blogs.

Has their info been solid, I guess I'd have to say yes despite how vague they are and how cryptic they may be. Please don't chalk me up as a supporter of theirs.

I think this thread has probably run its course so I'm going to let cooler heads prevail and step aside from this thread now. If I hear anything else, I'm more than happy to share what I can and those who want can take it, those who don't, don't have too.

Have a lovely afternoon.

river2109
07-06-2008, 04:57 PM
Now now there's no need for such harsh words. I actually know stfm965, and he does in fact have sources with legit info, in addition to doing some work for the club itself.

And no, this is not the same person on another account.

thorn
07-06-2008, 05:00 PM
Look, there could be some truth to this, maybe this is a Plan B type thing for the Phillies depending on who and when CC gets moved, however I personally did not buy into this too much, but thats me, normally I don't get worked up for trades till they are confirmed by the Media, but that does not indicate they are wrong.

NeilHamburger
07-06-2008, 05:07 PM
You guys are so full of it your eyes are brown.

The good thing is though you've created a scenario where you can't be wrong.

You see they've given no names and only vague info on teams. Since it's july a trade will invariably occur at some point and they can say "see we do have sources we are right" or if a trade doesn't happen they can say "well, talks broke down over a few players".

And I'd just be heartbroken not to hear anymore from your sources.

FlyerFanatic
07-06-2008, 05:08 PM
Firstly, I am not defending OSN, I'm not even talking about OSN. I don't like blogs, I don't read blogs, and I don't know anyone who reads blogs.

Has their info been solid, I guess I'd have to say yes despite how vague they are and how cryptic they may be. Please don't chalk me up as a supporter of theirs.

I think this thread has probably run its course so I'm going to let cooler heads prevail and step aside from this thread now. If I hear anything else, I'm more than happy to share what I can and those who want can take it, those who don't, don't have too.

Have a lovely afternoon.

again..what is it you know? dumb..why post if you arent going to tell?

David Cubbedge
07-06-2008, 05:09 PM
The Phillies are rumored to be scouting Bedard and CC heavily. I know the Brewers have a leg up on Sabathia, but obviously the Phillies would rather have one of those two. They have also said that Victorino and Marson are not going anywhere. But OSN seems to think this is still a possibility and that they are just working on the minor parts of the trade. I can't buy that for a second. I have no clue where he/they got info on that. And that is the last post they have on the situation.

Perhaps some taks were going on. At best, Gillick talked to Jocketty in hopes of a Plan B deal like thorn said. Maybe he is trying to see what Jocketty would want in return for Arroyo. But no way Victorino's name could be in that deal and should not have made it this far into a rumor. Gillick would have to laugh at him considering Arroyo's contract and also considering Gillick's words on Victorino's unavailability.

redsfan1966
07-06-2008, 05:18 PM
I have a source who states the amount of Arroyo / JTM commercials aired this week has been less than the amount aired last week, therefore it can be concluded a trade involving Arroyo is imminent......

NeilHamburger
07-06-2008, 05:25 PM
I have a source who states JTM products blow...my stomach.

redsfan1966
07-06-2008, 05:27 PM
Pepto Bismol and JTM...."theyre together again...."

NeilHamburger
07-06-2008, 05:37 PM
Excuse me stfm and river2109 I have to give a quick message to one of my MULTIPLE high level sources in the Reds organization:

When the sparrow flys, pick the walnuts and go to momma birds nest. I repeat, When the sparrow flys, pick the walnuts and go to momma birds nest.

There, back to your normal posting

Redsndyt
07-06-2008, 05:41 PM
jeez didnt they say they wuld leave the topic. just let it go brutha your just being nasty now

David Cubbedge
07-06-2008, 05:44 PM
Redsndyt, are you a part of the OSN blog?

Redsndyt
07-06-2008, 05:57 PM
im not but i will fess up to indirectly starting this fiasco. im kind of a blog and forum junky and i happened to find this one and i sent the link on pm to some of the insiders on here

i thought that they would like to see it and that everyone here would to

David Cubbedge
07-06-2008, 05:59 PM
How were you introduced to the link to the blog?

Redsndyt
07-06-2008, 06:02 PM
happened to find this one

if you really want to know, i checked on blogger who the blogs were with "cincinnati" "ohio" "reds" and "baseball" were and osn happened to pop up.

David Cubbedge
07-06-2008, 06:17 PM
Oh thanks for the research then. Your hard work definitely entertained all kind of interest.

It is just funny how they just start a blog and that same day you stumbled on it just by doing a simple little search. Strange? Yes, but stranger things have happened.

So why would you send "insiders" the blog page and not just post it on the site for everyone to make their own judgement on it?

Redsndyt
07-06-2008, 06:26 PM
i dunno why we r going 20 questions but i guess ill play along. in case you notice i dont post much and i didnt post it myself because i dont like the crap that yall have given the insiders here and i didnt want to be the subject of it myself and for good reason oviously. in fact i was only a guest until recently.

since you have already gone all spanish inquistiion on me, is there anything else i can answer for u?

David Cubbedge
07-06-2008, 06:36 PM
Yes, can you log off please so I can talk to stfm again? That version of you is better.

Redsndyt
07-06-2008, 06:41 PM
im sorry? i dunno stfm or lockdwn or whoever but im really getting sick of this and id really be appreciative if you wuld stop your interrogations.

if you think im the same person as stfm your just paranoid.

my name is derek h.

I live in beavercreek, ohio which is a suburb of dayton

i graduated from centerville hs in 1984, i graduated from ohio state four years later with a degree in business

i currently work in sales and marketing for a company in dayton

if there is anything else you would like just ask. i am many things, a husband a son a brother a father an employee and a reds fan, i am not sftm965 or lockdwn11

David Cubbedge
07-06-2008, 06:43 PM
who said anything about you being lockdwn11?

ChatterRed
07-06-2008, 06:45 PM
I have new information that something big is going to happen. But I can't tell you until it happens. When it happens, it will be exactly what I knew would happen. ;)

Redsndyt
07-06-2008, 06:50 PM
no one did, but he first linked the blog to here so i wanted to guard against any future accusations

im going to go take my kids to dinner and take a walk with my wife. i have better things to do than to be berated by some computer nerd who thinks he's a tough guy. i hope that youll stop what your doing and just do what we r all here to do and thats to talk about our favorite team.

David Cubbedge
07-06-2008, 06:59 PM
Dude, I don't mean to harass you, but your story doesn't add up at all. I know you apparently sent the PM to stfm about the blog (if in fact you two are different people). Then stfm sent it to lockdwn11.

So what difference does it make that he is the guy that gave all of us the link? It still shouldn't make you "paranoid" to the point where we start thinking you are lockdwn11 as well.

Here is my take:

You and stfm are one and the same. You are the one behind the OSN blog. I get that because I don't buy the story on your stumbling on a blog that has breaking news and you are the first one to see or hear about it. Then you stumble on this site and decide to PM someone with the link to the blog. Perhaps I have no choice but to feel like the creator of that blog needed attention. He has something important to get out, so naturally he goes to a place that houses the most Reds fans on the internet.

He who introduces the site is he who creates it or has an affiliation with it. My sig has a link to a site that I am an admin of. But I don't go making up BS to try and garner attention to my site. That OSN site had its two days of fame. It will die with this rumor.

Redsndyt
07-06-2008, 07:33 PM
im sorry you dont "buy" the "story" im not asking you to. thats the truth. if you know anything about me which you dont you know that i do like to skim through and find blogs

im sorry if you dont like the timing but thats just the way it is. im not a fan of you trying to take nothing and make it into something. i found a blog that was reporting something and i passed it along to one of the people who said he knew something.

thats not suspicious or sketchy or anything. i think youd like to see a story and be the one who found out about it. and your prosecutorial tone is irritating me. posters like you are the reason i passed it along in the first place instead of posting it myslef


for the final time, i have no affiliation with this stupid blog, i have no interest in being in the limelight.

so please drop it because thats the truth with no other facts to it. posters like you ruin what is suppose to be a free exchange of discussion about THE REDS

757690
07-06-2008, 07:40 PM
Just so everyone knows all the facts, This trade rumor was started by ORG poster Homer Bailey, who everyone knows has a friend who works for the Reds, and ORG poster Matt700WLW who works for WLW, confirmed what he was saying was true.

The guys everyone is picking on did not start this, they just entered after the conversation started to confirm that they heard the same things. Everything that these guys on the Sun Deck have said has been backed up by both ORG poster Homer Bailey and Matt700WLW.

OSN was not the one who started this rumor, two guys who everyone knows have connections to the Reds did, right here on the Redszone.

Stop blaming these guys, they were just trying to confirm what others in the ORG who we know, were saying.

Joseph
07-06-2008, 07:41 PM
Ok, looks like this thread has run its course and before it goes further, I'm calling it a day for you all.