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View Full Version : How would you rate the Cordero investment so far?



LouisvilleCARDS
07-03-2008, 09:45 PM
I give it a B+ ... a lot of people were complaining after he blew a couple saves, but man is he effective IMO. Just got his 16th save, and its nice not to have to worry about that closer spot. Could maybe Burton have held that role and did a good job? It's possible, but with this bullpen, we need as many good arms as we can get and I'm glad ownership put the money out there to get a very good closer. This year is down the crapper so I just hope he can keep it up in the future and be a guy who rises up the all times save list and becomes an All Star closer. He sure won't be worked too hard this year with opportunities I don't think.

Krawhitham
07-03-2008, 09:50 PM
He is doing a job that Burton can do a lot cheaper

Redeye fly
07-03-2008, 10:24 PM
With any team in a small or mid size market like the Reds, any contract that big is going to be scrutinized pretty heavily. That said, other than the occasional bout of wildness and a couple of times where he couldn't keep Cody Ross in the park, Cordero has been pretty solid. And, he's the type of pitcher that can overcome his own wildness and still get out of an inning by overmatching most hitters. If a guy like David Weathers loses the strike zone, he's screwed, unless he gets a double play ball. If Cordero loses the strike zone, he still might be able to bounce back and get out of it because guys aren't going to hit him very hard, for the most part.

Sure Burton could do the job cheaper, but could he do it as well? I doubt it. I still like him better as a set up guy at this point.

Add to the fact that Cordero has taken on the role of secondary mentor and confidante to Volquez and Cueto, and yeah, I'll at least say I'm thrilled to death he's here.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-03-2008, 10:56 PM
Also the fact that if Cordero wasn't here and Burton was closer, we would have someone else in the bullpen in his spot that would probably be horrible. Stanton would likely still been here.

mroby85
07-04-2008, 01:22 AM
Cordero has been great, and i'm glad to have him. Do you people remember the 8th inning last year? That's where you'd be moving Jared Burton from to the 9th. We need to be thankful we finally have a slam the door type of closer. I love feeling confident going into the 9th with a lead for a change, and i think it's be a very solid investment!

Krawhitham
07-04-2008, 03:00 AM
Cordero had more blown saves last season than Weathers, this team did not need a closer. Yes they needed bullpen help and pushing everyone back a slot did that, but so would have picking up a legit setup man for 1/3 of the price.

Cordero was signed to make a splash in the press so the average fan would think the Reds were moving the right direction and were contenders so they would go out to the ball park

Ghosts of 1990
07-04-2008, 08:32 AM
He's pitched well, no doubt about it. But we overpaid, and for the right offer Cordero could be had... no doubts about it. The fact that Burton has done so well only cements it.

schmidty622
07-04-2008, 09:09 AM
He's worth the investment because of the mentoring he provides Volquez and Cueto on a day to day basis. Its got to be nice for those guys to have a veteran presence to help them out.

Plus hes a damn good pitcher.

He got it!
07-04-2008, 09:17 AM
B + sounds about right. Some good analysis on here. I think we are all in agreement that Burton could do a bang up job in the 9th for cheaper, but shuttter at the notion of D.Weathers coming in with a 1 run lead in the 8th. I think you need that 1-2 combo at the end of your pen to truely have a great pen. Do you know how many steak dinners and Rolex watches that K-Rod has probably bought Shields down in Anaheim.

Jack Burton
07-04-2008, 09:28 AM
I'd give it a C, we just haven't got our money's worth so far.

Ghosts of 1990
07-04-2008, 10:19 AM
I'd give it a C, we just haven't got our money's worth so far.

haha ?

Well he can't hit and field

Griffey012
07-04-2008, 10:25 AM
He is doing a job that Burton can do a lot cheaper

Says who? There are a lot of really good bullpen pitchers that can't make it as a closer, closers have to have a mental edge, we really don't know that Burton has it or not. Burton could possibly be a good closer, but could also not be able to cut it as a closer.

PTI (pti)
07-04-2008, 10:52 AM
Spending $46 million on a closer is a bad investment for any team, ESPECIALLY the Cincinnati Reds. I think Cordero is great, but Burton has had a better year - and could be closing games for a whole helluva lot less money.

RedsFanInBama
07-04-2008, 11:02 AM
When you look at it simply from a perspective of "Burton could do it cheaper," the investment doesn't look good. But lets be honest. Dusty loves his older players. Burton wouldn't be closing right now if Cordero wasn't here. Weathers would be. And although Cody Ross has gotten him twice, other than that Cordero has been awesome.

You also have to consider how much adding this piece as positively impacted the bullpen as a whole. I think it definitely has had a big impact on the other pitchers stepping up their games. I'm not a fan of spending that much money on a closer not named K-Rod, but I've been very happy with the bullpen this season, so I'm not complaining.

akron3344
07-04-2008, 11:11 AM
grant balfour and burton could do it more economically efficiently, when you are a miasma of a club spending on a closer that you get to use once a week is a luxury, especially when the "manaer" opts to not bring him in a tie games

RedsFanInBama
07-04-2008, 11:20 AM
grant balfour and burton could do it more economically efficiently, when you are a miasma of a club spending on a closer that you get to use once a week is a luxury, especially when the "manaer" opts to not bring him in a tie games

He's pitched in plenty of tie games this year.

kpresidente
07-04-2008, 10:33 PM
He is doing a job that Burton can do a lot cheaper

Then who'd do Burton's job?

mroby85
07-05-2008, 12:13 AM
Cordero had more blown saves last season than Weathers, this team did not need a closer. Yes they needed bullpen help and pushing everyone back a slot did that, but so would have picking up a legit setup man for 1/3 of the price.

Cordero was signed to make a splash in the press so the average fan would think the Reds were moving the right direction and were contenders so they would go out to the ball park

First of all, I don't really appreciate being considered an average fan. I'm a season ticket holder that watches every single game, so that wasn't an accurate assessment by you. I think Cordero was a very nice signing that solidifies the back end. You know as well as I do that David Weathers wasn't as good as Cordero, and that was with him pitching over his head. He certainly wouldn't be as good this year with his .370 Opponent Batting Average.

ChatterRed
07-05-2008, 12:21 AM
I thought it was a good pickup at the time and still do. Look around the major leagues at all the contenders and they all have good closers. I have checked while looking for a contender that might be interested in trading for CoCo. No takers because they all have solid closers.

When the Reds contend, they will need a solid closer and bullpen. How much weaker would the bullpen be if Cordero were not in it? Alot.

Having said that, I would be willing to trade Cordero if I were overwhelmed by some team with a trade offer. Same as Harang. There are certain players on this team that are "untouchable" with the right return in a trade.

gedred69
07-05-2008, 12:53 PM
While I thought his price tag a little steep, The 7th-9th inning catastrohies are rare compared to last season. Barring the rash of in-opportune injuries, this team would be at least .500 increasing the importance of a Cordero down the stretch.

Kingspoint
07-05-2008, 09:58 PM
17 for 21 is not a save percentage of an above average closer. It's pretty mediocre or average at best. But, given the state of the REDS' bullpens over the last few years, it was probably a risk worth taking in order to try to establish some type of consistency there allowing other pitchers to perform less stress-inducing roles for themselves.

Overall, it was probably worth it for the team.

Kingspoint
07-06-2008, 04:10 PM
Let's go Cordero!

Griffey012
07-06-2008, 04:17 PM
Didn't get to watch the game on tv today, I had to follow on gamecast. How did Cordero do in the last inning from anyone that watched, 2 quick outs and then an error and an infield single. Did he look shaky or did the defense let him down? Any insights would be great.

NeilHamburger
07-06-2008, 04:19 PM
Cordero looked good, Votto Bill Bucknered the 3rd out. Then Country Kepp gave a weak throw leading to another hit. But, he realized the d was so bad that he K'd the last guy

RedsFanInBama
07-06-2008, 04:36 PM
The only real mistake I saw Cordero make in that last inning today was the 0-2 pitch to Kearns. That was way too fat for that situation. But Votto made a lazy play that almost came back to haunt the Reds. He could have moved in front of that ball but he stayed to the side and tried to backhand it. The game should have been over at 6-3 at that point. He's gotten better defensively as the year has moved on, but that play has to be made 10 out of 10 times.

Marge'sMullet
07-06-2008, 06:53 PM
I can tell you what, I'm not scared anymore when they have to goto the bullpen. I couldn't say that last year or the past 5 years.

I give Cordero a B+.

The facts are you need more than one shut down man in the bullpen. Burton and Cordero are just fine.

reds1869
07-07-2008, 11:08 AM
Cordero was the best free agent closer we could get and he has done a fine job. Yes, Burton is capable of closing. But then who is your setup guy, Stormy? You need mroe than one finishing reliever, just like you need more than Jay Bruce in the outfield and Brandon Phillips in the infield. People in this town always think small. Why not dream big?

I honestly get tired of people in this market always wanting to say "maybe this guy could do it cheaper." Forget cheaper...let's do better. Listening to Sunday Morning Sports Talk is like listening to people who've been beaten down their whole lives admit defeat to a psychologist. Before we can win we need a winning attitude, from Ownership to management to players to the fans who help pay the bills.

PTI (pti)
07-07-2008, 12:51 PM
The more I've thought about it, the more I've realized that this is in fact a bad INVESTMENT, which is what the original poster asked. This isn't a knee-jerk reaction to some of Cordero's recent struggles, b/c every time he enters the game I honestly feel like he's capable of striking out the side. BUT, from an INVESTMENT standpoint, it just doesn't make sense to pay someone $46 million to only get 3 outs at a time.

And yes, I *do* understand the value of a great closer, but I think everyone overestimates the difficulty in finding one. I've been a Reds fan since the mid-80s, and even though I've seen a bunch of really bad baseball, the Reds have never really had a tough time solidifying the closer role - with the exception of a few years here and there.

John Franco --> the Nasty Boys --> Jeff Brantley --> Jeff Shaw --> Scott Williamson --> Danny Graves --> David Weathers --> etc


Cordero has had a decent year, but not great - and if you're paying a guy nearly $12 million/year to close ballgames, then he'd damn well better be one of the very best in the business. We aren't getting that from CoCo, and I don't know that we ever will. So, from an INVESTMENT standpoint, I think it's a bad move. Use your resources elsewhere, and find another closer (as we've seen in the last two decades, it isn't really THAT tough).

mroby85
07-07-2008, 12:55 PM
Cordero was the best free agent closer we could get and he has done a fine job. Yes, Burton is capable of closing. But then who is your setup guy, Stormy? You need mroe than one finishing reliever, just like you need more than Jay Bruce in the outfield and Brandon Phillips in the infield. People in this town always think small. Why not dream big?

I honestly get tired of people in this market always wanting to say "maybe this guy could do it cheaper." Forget cheaper...let's do better. Listening to Sunday Morning Sports Talk is like listening to people who've been beaten down their whole lives admit defeat to a psychologist. Before we can win we need a winning attitude, from Ownership to management to players to the fans who help pay the bills.

Absolutely, that is right on, the losing mentality sucks, and it needs to change! great post!!

Betterread
07-07-2008, 01:20 PM
His performance has been fine - about what was expected. So I would rate that as a B
His presence has improved the bullpen, which was a major need, so I would rate his fulfillment of an important role as an A.
He is on track to notch only 30-35 saves because of lack of opportunities, which for the size of the contract he agreed to is a miscalculation and a misapplication of money. For that, the organization gets a C.
Overall average grade would be a B. Good, but rather expensive, acquisition.

shredda2000
07-07-2008, 10:51 PM
B+

He has solidified a shaky bullpen and has been a "father figure" to the young pitchers Cueto and Volquez.