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View Full Version : So ... will THIS finally be the time we get momentum?



LouisvilleCARDS
07-06-2008, 05:37 PM
Or are we gonig to go back in the crapper on Tuesday and lose a series against the Cubs or get swept? 4 games is the second longest winning streak we've had, as sad as that is.

- This week we take three in a row versus Cleveland and Pittsburgh, then blow an 11 inning game against Pittsburgh enroute to losing the series

- Win 7 of 9 against SD, Atlanta, and Pitt at the end of May, then go 5-12 up until the Yankees series.

This team can't seem to handle any sort of prosperity. At this point I'm pretty much expecting to lose 4 or 5 of the next 6, maybe all 6.

Aces Wild
07-06-2008, 06:31 PM
I don't expect this team to contend anyway, but it would be nice to see them at least get to .500 this season..........the talent is there to do that. I personally think the Cubs are just alot better than anyone else in the division (as the Cards are finding out), but maybe we can catch them with there pants down following two emotional series with the White Sox and Cards.........who knows maybe we can steal 2 out of 3. However, losing a series to this Cubs team is in no means going to shock or disappoint me (unlike the Pirate series).

Nuxhall41
07-06-2008, 07:58 PM
After careful consideration, I'll bet crapper.

It's great when you put together a 4 game sweep and are still 4 games under .500. :beerme:

I predict this team will oscillate between 3 and 8 games under the rest of the way.

reds1869
07-07-2008, 12:24 AM
I honestly believe this team is hitting their stride. I think we will peek above .500 and stay there by season's end.

TheBigLebowski
07-07-2008, 11:48 AM
I don't think this team is going to hit any "stride" at all. I gave up on this season some time ago and a 4 game sweep of, perhaps, the worst team in baseball on our home field is not going to change my mind. We faced, with the exception of John Lannan, AAA pitching this weekend and we never once blew them out or scored an abundance of runs. Don't get me wrong - I was thrilled with the sweep, regardless of the competition - 4 game sweeps are rare.

The weird thing is, a sustained winning streak may actually be bad for us. This team is simply not going to win anything this year. Not going to happen. However, if we string together a few more wins and end up in striking distance of the WC, Cast & Co. may decide to become buyers rather than sellers and cause the same problems 2005 did for the franchise. This is a very imperfect team with many holes that need to be fixed.

reds1869
07-07-2008, 12:23 PM
The weird thing is, a sustained winning streak may actually be bad for us. This team is simply not going to win anything this year. Not going to happen. However, if we string together a few more wins and end up in striking distance of the WC, Cast & Co. may decide to become buyers rather than sellers and cause the same problems 2005 did for the franchise. This is a very imperfect team with many holes that need to be fixed.

If they keep those bought pieces and add to them in the off-season, the club will not be hurt in the least. Holes are made to be filled. It all comes down to how much they are willing to spend. BCast has some seriously deep pockets. The question is will he open them up?

Bumstead
07-07-2008, 01:53 PM
Wow....my first post. Maybe I will have something reasonable to add from time to time.

I believe this team has the ability to compete for a .500 finish but not much better than that. They need to resolve where they stand with Dunn and Griffey and get what they can for Weathers. I just don't see how the Reds can contend with the Cubs and Brewers for the next couple of years, unless something changes and they decide to spend some money?

Anyway, there's my first post. I've been a Reds fan for 30+ years and now live up by Chicago...Cub fans...pfft...

Bumstead

Redus
07-07-2008, 02:24 PM
Wow....my first post. Maybe I will have something reasonable to add from time to time.

I believe this team has the ability to compete for a .500 finish but not much better than that. They need to resolve where they stand with Dunn and Griffey and get what they can for Weathers. I just don't see how the Reds can contend with the Cubs and Brewers for the next couple of years, unless something changes and they decide to spend some money?

Anyway, there's my first post. I've been a Reds fan for 30+ years and now live up by Chicago...Cub fans...pfft...

Bumstead
Bravo and welcome!

Strider
07-07-2008, 02:36 PM
Fools Gold...the Reds always seem to get hot before the trade deadline and then cool off again once the deadline is past. Either they are an early July team or ...you fill in the blank

Root Down
07-07-2008, 03:09 PM
Fools Gold...the Reds always seem to get hot before the trade deadline and then cool off again once the deadline is past. Either they are an early July team or ...you fill in the blank

That is why Jockety is here.. to stop the rut.

mrherd05
07-07-2008, 04:32 PM
Wow...sometimes it seems like people want us to lose, so we can trade good players, only to get unproven prospects back, so we can maybe win in three years.

Interesting.

superred
07-07-2008, 04:44 PM
Wow...sometimes it seems like people want us to lose, so we can trade good players, only to get unproven prospects back, so we can maybe win in three years.

Interesting.

yeah ive noticed that 2

ChatterRed
07-07-2008, 05:00 PM
I don't want them to make a run, because I don't think it will be enough, and then we will be stuck with the same old same old, and have not made any changes. If we're going to make a run, I want it to be in August and September as a preview of what could be next year.

Other teams have dumped big names and then gone on a run. It doesn't always have to do with getting prospects or new players. Sometimes it's simply remixing the guys already here that remain, a change here or there in the lineup, new guys getting a chance and responding with passion unlike the deadweight that was clogging the lineup. There are lots of reasons to think change could be for the better. Mainly because NO CHANGE has resulted in the same thing for the past 8+ years.

reds1869
07-07-2008, 05:22 PM
I don't want them to make a run, because I don't think it will be enough, and then we will be stuck with the same old same old, and have not made any changes. If we're going to make a run, I want it to be in August and September as a preview of what could be next year.

Other teams have dumped big names and then gone on a run. It doesn't always have to do with getting prospects or new players. Sometimes it's simply remixing the guys already here that remain, a change here or there in the lineup, new guys getting a chance and responding with passion unlike the deadweight that was clogging the lineup. There are lots of reasons to think change could be for the better. Mainly because NO CHANGE has resulted in the same thing for the past 8+ years.

We certainly need change. But a lot of people think dumping Dunn and Jr. is the magic bullet. Like it or not, those two provide a lot of production that has to be replaced. No one in our system (that is not already on the big league roster) is anywhere close to being ready for that. We need to trade those two guys and get quality in return OR let them walk at the end of their contracts and pick up the sandwich picks. Then we need to spend on some quality FA talent to mix in with our young studs. Waving the white flag and praying that the young guys will come through is not the answer.

ChatterRed
07-07-2008, 05:41 PM
We certainly need change. But a lot of people think dumping Dunn and Jr. is the magic bullet. Like it or not, those two provide a lot of production that has to be replaced. No one in our system (that is not already on the big league roster) is anywhere close to being ready for that. We need to trade those two guys and get quality in return OR let them walk at the end of their contracts and pick up the sandwich picks. Then we need to spend on some quality FA talent to mix in with our young studs. Waving the white flag and praying that the young guys will come through is not the answer.


......and just how many playoff appearances have Junior and Dunn been involved in as Reds players?

I rest my case.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

reds1869
07-07-2008, 05:51 PM
......and just how many playoff appearances have Junior and Dunn been involved in as Reds players?

I rest my case.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

And what kind of talent has surrounded them? You could have put Babe Ruth batting cleanup here during their tenure and the results would be no different. Dunn and Jr. are every bit as good as most of the FAs who will be available. Blaming two players for losing is insane, it's like the football fans who blame the QB of a tea with bad defense.

ChatterRed
07-07-2008, 07:02 PM
They are losers and bring a losing mentality. Junior had great talent around him Seattle and same results.

Brutus
07-07-2008, 07:11 PM
I always want a team to try to contend, when it's reasonably feasible to do so. If a team has a legitimate chance, I'd rather see them make a run for it. And along those lines, I hate seeing the Reds tease the fans year after year, only to have to fold the tents every July.

But I want them to do it one more time (this season).

This year, I do believe if the Reds made a move or two, they could compete down the stretch. They'd probably make things interesting, but I believe they'd still fall behind Chicago, Milwaukee and probably even St. Louis. I think this team is a solid team, but not quite playoff caliber.

However, by unloading Dunn, Griffey, Freel and Arroyo, I believe the Reds could make an attempt to go all out in the offseason and really improve. I think the core of this particular team is as such that only a few key moves could make them a legitimate playoff (if not World Series) contender. Re-signing Dunn wouldn't be a bad move either, though I just feel like it's time for a new look.

If the Reds play their cards right, they can get some Major League-ready talent for next season and put together a playoff contender on the field for opening day 2009. If they make a run for it this season, they could still do the same and who knows, maybe defy odds and make it, but I think it's a slim chance... and could possibly ruin the chance to get a few solid parts in a trade (whether that be a Shane Victorino, Matt Kemp or someone else).

reds1869
07-07-2008, 07:33 PM
They are losers and bring a losing mentality. Junior had great talent around him Seattle and same results.

Sure, I bet they love losing. They go to work every day and say "man, we're just gonna lose anyway so why try?" :rolleyes:

Seriously, have you ever seen the passion with which Griffey works on his game? The man works harder than most any player in the bigs. Dunn looks absolutely disgusted when the Reds lose. But hey, because you and a bunch of other Debbie Downers say it it must be so. I've known several major league players and not a single one of them has had a "losing attitude," despite always playing on losing teams.

gedred69
07-07-2008, 08:19 PM
I remain the eternal optimist, but this road trip is their chance to rise from sub par to a credible team. 4-2 would be great, 3-3 acceptable,----barely. Anything less and whatever happens the rest of the season barring a miracle, would be moot.

ChatterRed
07-07-2008, 10:25 PM
Seriously, have you ever seen the passion with which Griffey works on his game? The man works harder than most any player in the bigs. Dunn looks absolutely disgusted when the Reds lose. But hey, because you and a bunch of other Debbie Downers say it it must be so. I've known several major league players and not a single one of them has had a "losing attitude," despite always playing on losing teams.

Now I know you have no clue. Did you hear Jim Rome last week talking about how Griffey has never taken care of his body or worked hard in the offseason? How he has taken his ability for granted for all these years? Did you hear the quote last week about the Reds clubhouse having no fire or leadership.......(and it being directed at Griffey and Dunn)?

I swear you must be living under a rock. Seriously. If I wanted to spend 15 minutes, I could probably dig up two dozen stories/instances/quotes negative about Dunn and Griffey from people who work near the situation.

I spoke to a guy I know who is affiliated with the Reds and he was talking about the old Barry Larkin days and how people don't realize how much of a cancer Larkin became. He said Dunn and Griffey are about the same........and that the team needs to get rid of them to keep the young guys hungry and from getting complacent like those two are.

Did you even listen to what the Toronto GM said????? He said what we all know is true about Dunn. He doesn't even like playing baseball.

Wake up dude. You need to see the truth.

reds1869
07-07-2008, 11:57 PM
Now I know you have no clue. Did you hear Jim Rome last week talking about how Griffey has never taken care of his body or worked hard in the offseason? How he has taken his ability for granted for all these years? Did you hear the quote last week about the Reds clubhouse having no fire or leadership.......(and it being directed at Griffey and Dunn)?

I swear you must be living under a rock. Seriously. If I wanted to spend 15 minutes, I could probably dig up two dozen stories/instances/quotes negative about Dunn and Griffey from people who work near the situation.

I spoke to a guy I know who is affiliated with the Reds and he was talking about the old Barry Larkin days and how people don't realize how much of a cancer Larkin became. He said Dunn and Griffey are about the same........and that the team needs to get rid of them to keep the young guys hungry and from getting complacent like those two are.

Did you even listen to what the Toronto GM said????? He said what we all know is true about Dunn. He doesn't even like playing baseball.

Wake up dude. You need to see the truth.

You just quoted Jim Rome, Toronto's loud mouth GM, and the ever popular "guy I know in the organization." That tells me all I need to know about your "credentials." Perhaps you missed Dunn's reaction to the Toronto GM's comments? That didn't seem like the reaction of a man with no passion to me.

ChatterRed
07-08-2008, 12:05 AM
You just quoted Jim Rome, Toronto's loud mouth GM, and the ever popular "guy I know in the organization." That tells me all I need to know about your "credentials." Perhaps you missed Dunn's reaction to the Toronto GM's comments? That didn't seem like the reaction of a man with no passion to me.

Dude, you haven't given any examples except your own opinion which holds no water.

Toronto's loudmouthed GM said they had done their research on Dunn (unlike you), which gives him far more credit than you'll ever have, and their research turned up exactly what he said. He may have gone about it the wrong way (which I think he did), but everything he said was the truth.

Take a poll on here and you would lose. 90% would agree with me.

BWAHAAAAAA!!!! :D:beerme:

reds1869
07-08-2008, 12:10 AM
Edited; I'm not going to get into a shouting war with you.

ChatterRed
07-08-2008, 08:58 AM
Edited; I'm not going to get into a shouting war with you.


:thumbup:

reds1869
07-08-2008, 09:35 AM
:thumbup:

Yeah, I got a little hot under the collar last night. Sorry about that.

ChatterRed
07-08-2008, 09:42 AM
Me too. Peace.

Bumstead
07-08-2008, 10:58 AM
Well, I certainly don't want the Reds to lose; I check the scores everyday and cheer for them when I get a chance to see them play. I just think realistically they don't have a shot to make the playoffs this season and maybe not the next couple of years. And, being a Griffey and Dunn fan, I am not saying they should get rid of them but they do need to make a decision one way or the other regarding their futures with the team. Unless the Reds are willing to spend a lot of money correctly in the offseason, I just don't see how this is going to be a quick fix. Unfortunately, it may be better to start from scratch (retaining the young, quality players) than it is to start in the middle...

And if I ever quote something Jim Rome says please shoot me.... :p:

Bumstead

Carolina Red
07-08-2008, 11:43 AM
It's gut check time for this team. Maybe they need a closed door meeting where someone decides to step up and be the leader on this team. Maybe Baker needs to call a meeting and get in there rear ends. I don't know. I do think these guys can contend for this division if they all stay healthy. The Cubs and Cardinals are smoke and mirrors, they will fold during the last half. Ryan Dempster and Kyle Lohse? You've got to be kidding me. The Brewers will be the team to beat. Cincy can do it, they have to believe and they have to play every pitch and every at bat like it was the last out of the 7th game of the World Series. Bottom line is someone in that clubhouse needs to be a leader and make these guys hate losing.

killuminati35
07-08-2008, 11:21 PM
Only the Reds could come off a 4 game sweep with their ace on the hill and then play as bad as they did tonight. This team is such a joke.

Billy_Bearcat
07-08-2008, 11:49 PM
Hey, they're all looking to a well earned All-Star break. :rolleyes:

Nuxhall41
07-09-2008, 12:11 AM
Only 2 & 1/2 weeks until training camp. :beerme: Three weeks 'til the Hall of Fame game.

reds1869
07-09-2008, 01:11 PM
Only the Reds could come off a 4 game sweep with their ace on the hill and then play as bad as they did tonight. This team is such a joke.

Harang long ago stopped being the ace of this staff.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-09-2008, 03:40 PM
I figured as much, no way we were going to win last night - and in typical Reds style, it wasn't even close. Made it worse I watched it with a friend who's a Cubs fan. Knew we didn't have a shot really.

Jack Burton
07-09-2008, 05:08 PM
Only the Reds could come off a 4 game sweep with their ace on the hill and then play as bad as they did tonight. This team is such a joke.

Agreed, I guess last night's game answered this thread's question.

Fullboat
07-09-2008, 06:10 PM
So the light at the end of the tunnel was.....An Oncoming Train.:D

texasdave
07-10-2008, 12:00 AM
You have to love the heart the Reds have shown so far in this series. Pathetic.

Strider
07-10-2008, 12:57 AM
Clearly it is time to cash in what we can and remake the roster.

There is no point in continuing down this road unless we're doing a Thelma and Louise.

Sell...Sell...Sell...

ChatterRed
07-10-2008, 01:27 AM
I'm really impressed...................
























































.........with the Cubs.

reds1869
07-10-2008, 02:06 PM
Clearly it is time to cash in what we can and remake the roster.

There is no point in continuing down this road unless we're doing a Thelma and Louise.

Sell...Sell...Sell...

I agree. I was optimistic going into this series, but now I say blow it up! Blow it up real good! :(

Strider
08-10-2008, 11:00 PM
Fools Gold...the Reds always seem to get hot before the trade deadline and then cool off again once the deadline is past. Either they are an early July team or ...you fill in the blank

I really hate it that I'm right about this but we won enough before the deadline to convince management to sit tight and then we get what we've gotten the last 2 weeks.

Momentum...was obviously...Fools Gold again in 2008...or for Yogi fans...Deja Vu all over again.

:D