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improbus
07-07-2008, 10:19 PM
Does anyone still care about this?
It doesn't seem to phase us because we love that Hairston is playing so well and he had one of the longer entries in the Mitchell Report.

I think baseball got exactly what it wanted. It wanted people to think that they were doing something during the off-season, and then once the games start, the steroids stories go away. Do we really think that the game is now clean?

improbus
07-07-2008, 10:20 PM
Oh, and sorry about misspelling Mitchell. I'm a tired new parent....

ChatterRed
07-07-2008, 11:07 PM
Yeah, Hairston propelled himself into the HOF with all those steroids he took. Yawn.

improbus
07-07-2008, 11:25 PM
Yeah, Hairston propelled himself into the HOF with all those steroids he took. Yawn.

But does that matter? Look, Bonds got killed, but is what he did any different than Hairston, or Pettitte, or Jeremy Giambi? Cheating is cheating. It is funny how fans get all upset when Bonds was breaking "sacred" records and yet when a proven steroid user makes our offense better we are fine with it. How is that any different than Giants fans who cheered Bonds? In a way, I am more upset with the lower level guys. Bonds didn't need the steroids to be great. He needed them to have the greatest offensive stretch since Babe Ruth. Hairston Jr. needed them to stay in baseball (he was making 200,000 before he took them). Those are the guys that fringe players look at. They see that steroids and HGH are the way to make it into or stay in baseball.

reds1869
07-07-2008, 11:36 PM
But does that matter? Look, Bonds got killed, but is what he did any different than Hairston, or Pettitte, or Jeremy Giambi? Cheating is cheating. It is funny how fans get all upset when Bonds was breaking "sacred" records and yet when a proven steroid user makes our offense better we are fine with it. How is that any different than Giants fans who cheered Bonds? In a way, I am more upset with the lower level guys. Bonds didn't need the steroids to be great. He needed them to have the greatest offensive stretch since Babe Ruth. Hairston Jr. needed them to stay in baseball (he was making 200,000 before he took them). Those are the guys that fringe players look at. They see that steroids and HGH are the way to make it into or stay in baseball.

:beerme:

Excellent post.

ChatterRed
07-08-2008, 08:11 AM
But does that matter? Look, Bonds got killed, but is what he did any different than Hairston, or Pettitte, or Jeremy Giambi? Cheating is cheating. It is funny how fans get all upset when Bonds was breaking "sacred" records and yet when a proven steroid user makes our offense better we are fine with it. How is that any different than Giants fans who cheered Bonds? In a way, I am more upset with the lower level guys. Bonds didn't need the steroids to be great. He needed them to have the greatest offensive stretch since Babe Ruth. Hairston Jr. needed them to stay in baseball (he was making 200,000 before he took them). Those are the guys that fringe players look at. They see that steroids and HGH are the way to make it into or stay in baseball.

Because Hairston obviously wasn't a career steroid abuser. Lots of guys, tons not named in that report, "tried" steroids. If you "lived" on them, the results were obvious. If you just "tried" them, it's obvious they did nothing to help your career. Heck, I know athletes who "tried" them.........I was shocked to find out that people I know "tried" steroids, but they explained to me that it's like trying alcohol, cigarettes, or pot for the first time...............that there is a huge difference in trying something for a "short" time rather than becoming an abuser/user for a long period of time.

Pretty common sense if you ask me.

improbus
07-08-2008, 08:49 AM
And yet Hairston purchased Genotropin (HGH), human Chorionoic Gonadotropin (which is used to maintain testicular size at the end of a steroid cycle), and clomiphene citrate (blocks estrogen production and is used at the end of a steroid cycle) in 2004, that sounds like a lot more than Andy Pettitte's "I tried it twice to recover from injury". Also keep in mind that this was all that he got caught for and it is not necessarily all he did.

Look, this isn't something that is comfortable to discuss and I can't believe I am defending Barry Bonds, but he is unfairly singled out because of his personal accomplishments and salty personality. Just because you used it to hit singles or recover from injury doesn't make it any different than using it for building massive muscles to hit 500 foot bombs. It makes you able to do something you previously weren't able to do. That is cheating, whether you are Hal Morris or Roger Clemens.

Griffey012
07-08-2008, 09:52 AM
There are so many players that most likely did steroids that have gone free and clean, there is no way of knowing, but I would hope we all know the players are clean now. Did we forgive Josh Hamilton for his drug addiction and nearly ruining himself until he was in his grave, yes we did. Why can't we forgive these players who used steroids and got caught up in the plague that was ruining baseball. And for some of these guys, they come from places in countries that are unimaginable, corruptness, crime, murders, severe severe poverty. I can't blame a guy for trying to take any means possible to get to the bigs and make that minimum wage check so he can support his entire extended povershed family. I don't condone it or believe it was right, but I can't blame them.

Hairston wasn't in that situation, but I'll forgive and forget what he did along with many others, unless they readily deny deny deny like a few people.

BTW have you seen the size of the head on Scott Hairston, Jerry's brother, it might be bigger than Bonds'

improbus
07-08-2008, 10:40 AM
I'm not saying that we can't forgive, but to assume that all players are clean is very naive. Remember that there is still no effective test for HGH, which seems to be the drug of choice. Having seen what I have in baseball, football, cycling, and the Olympics I am always going to be skeptical when an athlete does something great. While it may not seem fair to think that way, there have been WAY too many examples of dirty athletes lately.

The Hamilton thing is totally different. He was not trying to enhance his career, instead he was destroying it (ala Mickey Mantle, Darryl Strawberry, or Doc Gooden).

ChatterRed
07-08-2008, 10:40 AM
There are so many players that most likely did steroids that have gone free and clean, there is no way of knowing, but I would hope we all know the players are clean now. Did we forgive Josh Hamilton for his drug addiction and nearly ruining himself until he was in his grave, yes we did. Why can't we forgive these players who used steroids and got caught up in the plague that was ruining baseball. And for some of these guys, they come from places in countries that are unimaginable, corruptness, crime, murders, severe severe poverty. I can't blame a guy for trying to take any means possible to get to the bigs and make that minimum wage check so he can support his entire extended povershed family. I don't condone it or believe it was right, but I can't blame them.

Hairston wasn't in that situation, but I'll forgive and forget what he did along with many others, unless they readily deny deny deny like a few people.

BTW have you seen the size of the head on Scott Hairston, Jerry's brother, it might be bigger than Bonds'


Good post.

Ghosts of 1990
07-08-2008, 11:01 AM
Interesting debate and I don't know where I stand exactly.

I don't think you can compare Hamilton to Hairston/Bonds/etc. No way shape or form.

I also don't categorize Bonds with Hairston, not even close. Although I'd agree, they're all cheaters. There were so many who baseball covered up for though. Pujols and A-Rod to name a few.

Griffey012
07-08-2008, 12:37 PM
Interesting debate and I don't know where I stand exactly.

I don't think you can compare Hamilton to Hairston/Bonds/etc. No way shape or form.

I also don't categorize Bonds with Hairston, not even close. Although I'd agree, they're all cheaters. There were so many who baseball covered up for though. Pujols and A-Rod to name a few.

I would say you can compare it on the platform that many of the steroid users began to use as a result of the situation they were put in. The situation being that they were falling behind because others were using and passing them, or some of them were trying to get themselves and family out of their lifestyle situations. Hamilton was thrown in a different situation and chose to turn to drugs and alcohol. Now granted the steroid and hgh users are clean now, I am fine with forgiving them all if they admit it was a mistake.

Hairston hasn't really spoken at all about it, but at least he isn't blowing his life savings trying to fight it (Clemens).

improbus
07-08-2008, 12:46 PM
Hairston hasn't really spoken at all about it, but at least he isn't blowing his life savings trying to fight it (Clemens).
Mostly because he doesn't have the legacy that Clemens does. Clemens stands to lose everything he built for 20+ years. What does Hairston lose? A card show signing at the local Denny's?

Griffey012
07-08-2008, 06:03 PM
Mostly because he doesn't have the legacy that Clemens does. Clemens stands to lose everything he built for 20+ years. What does Hairston lose? A card show signing at the local Denny's?

Well if Clemens were smart he would have admitted to using them for a short period of time, cite an injury he was trying to help heal, just say he was trying to help his teammates win. Then apologize and explain how it was wrong and was a mistake. He could have went on to say he wasn't an avid user and it was a one time thing. Most likely it would all be passed him now and he could be on living life, but look where he is now.

improbus
07-08-2008, 09:25 PM
I guess my problem with the whole situation is this. The Mitchell Report seems to be a sham. I don't get the feeling that baseball really cares whether the game is clean or not. To me, they found Roger and Barry, made them scapegoats and tried to steer the public's attention to something else. It seems like a massive PR ploy. They threw some names at the ravenous public, fed the beast, and then moved on. Why would they change anything? They are still making their money. In fact, they are making more money than ever, and until that changes, they have no real incentive to change. However, if Mastercard, Pepsi, Budweiser, and other major sponsors would put pressure on baseball, they would listen.

In the end, they know we are sheep, and they will continue to treat us as such.

Ghosts of 1990
07-09-2008, 11:17 AM
I guess my problem with the whole situation is this. The Mitchell Report seems to be a sham. I don't get the feeling that baseball really cares whether the game is clean or not. To me, they found Roger and Barry, made them scapegoats and tried to steer the public's attention to something else. It seems like a massive PR ploy. They threw some names at the ravenous public, fed the beast, and then moved on. Why would they change anything? They are still making their money. In fact, they are making more money than ever, and until that changes, they have no real incentive to change. However, if Mastercard, Pepsi, Budweiser, and other major sponsors would put pressure on baseball, they would listen.

In the end, they know we are sheep, and they will continue to treat us as such.

Yup.

They fingered some big names, and they overlooked. It was a total faux.

PTI (pti)
07-09-2008, 01:16 PM
But does that matter? Look, Bonds got killed, but is what he did any different than Hairston, or Pettitte, or Jeremy Giambi? Cheating is cheating. It is funny how fans get all upset when Bonds was breaking "sacred" records and yet when a proven steroid user makes our offense better we are fine with it. How is that any different than Giants fans who cheered Bonds? In a way, I am more upset with the lower level guys. Bonds didn't need the steroids to be great. He needed them to have the greatest offensive stretch since Babe Ruth. Hairston Jr. needed them to stay in baseball (he was making 200,000 before he took them). Those are the guys that fringe players look at. They see that steroids and HGH are the way to make it into or stay in baseball.



If Jerry Hairston was a pompous a-hole who singlehandedly destroyed the history and integrity of the game, continually lied his arrogant tail off to federal authorities about his drug usage, was the center of the most visible performance-enhancing drug scandal in our nation's history - all told in a bestselling novel, and generally give a big middle finger to anyone and everyone associated with baseball --> then he'd get killed, too.


Big difference, hoss.