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View Full Version : 7/8/08: Reds @ Marty's Favorite Fans--The Return of Dusty Act II



reds44
07-08-2008, 06:50 PM
Reds:
Hairston SS
Bruce CF
Griffey RF
Phillips 2B
Dunn LF
Keppinger 3B
Votto 1B
Bako C
Harang P

Red in Chicago
07-08-2008, 08:59 PM
dempster is 9 - 0 at wrigley...he's overdue for a loss...

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 08:59 PM
I can't believe Dempster is undefeated at home. That needs to change tonight.

RedsManRick
07-08-2008, 09:08 PM
Could be some rain in the next 30-60 minutes. The skies west of here don't look promising.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:11 PM
Edmonds makes a diving catch on Hairston's fly ball.

Red in Chicago
07-08-2008, 09:12 PM
Edmonds makes a diving catch on Hairston's fly ball.

thank goodness i didn't have to hear george say "he got it" ;)

Caseyfan21
07-08-2008, 09:12 PM
George provides the man love to Edmonds. "A Dandy!"

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:12 PM
Bruce hit by the pitch.

Hap
07-08-2008, 09:12 PM
Edmonds makes a diving catch on Hairston's fly ball.

and george grande is very happy

Big Klu
07-08-2008, 09:12 PM
Edmonds makes a diving catch on Hairston's fly ball.

George is happy.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:16 PM
Junior flies out to left. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:18 PM
Phillips grounds into a force out at 2nd. Reds did not score but did work deep into the count making Dempster throw a lot of pitches.

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 09:19 PM
At least Dempster had to throw a lot of pitches.

Dead Horse Alert - BP is not a clean up hitter against righties.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:19 PM
Dempster threw 20 pitches that inning.

RedsManRick
07-08-2008, 09:21 PM
Making Dempster throw 20 pitches is a nice sign. Reds hitters looked like they went up there planning to watch some pitches.

I'll take a swipe at that horse. Just plain old stupid.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:21 PM
Theriot grounds out to 2nd. Great play by Phillips.

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 09:21 PM
BP should win Gold Glove this year easily.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:23 PM
Fukodome walks.

RedsManRick
07-08-2008, 09:23 PM
As we've seen from him most of the year, Harang is uncharacteristically up in the zone. Something is wrong mechanically, no doubt.

Red in Chicago
07-08-2008, 09:25 PM
harang will give up a bomb this inning:(

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:25 PM
Bako easily throws out Fukodome. That pitch looked like strike 3 but the count is 2-2.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:26 PM
Lee strikes out swiging on a pitch in the dirt. 0-0 after 1.

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 09:26 PM
Harang recovers nicely. Scoreless thru 1.

Red in Chicago
07-08-2008, 09:26 PM
harang will give up a bomb this inning:(

glad i was wrong...i thought lee was going to tag one...

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 09:28 PM
An inning with solid (if not spectacular) defense from *gulp* the Reds. Now that's a change of pace I'd be happy to see more often.

This "could" be a long game with Aaron struggling with his control. 6 strikes, 9 balls. Very un-Harang-like.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:28 PM
Dunn half swings and grounds one just inches in front of the plate and is tagged out by the catcher.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 09:29 PM
Wow. Now Dunn has caught Corey-itis. :O)

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 09:29 PM
Country Kepp gets a knock.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:29 PM
Keppinger singles to left breaking a long hitless streak.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 09:30 PM
There we go. Snap out of it Kepp! Single to break the 0-22 slump.

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 09:30 PM
Votto rakes.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:31 PM
Votto singles to center. 1st and 2nd.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 09:31 PM
Is Dempster just trying to protect the plate and push hitters back or is his control THAT erratic?

And as I speak...Votto single!

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 09:32 PM
Okay, a player makes a good defensive play and then comes to the plate in the next at-bat. That's almost always a hit, right? :O) Come on Bako!

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:33 PM
Bako hits it hard but lines into a 4-6 DP. 0-0 mid 2nd.

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 09:33 PM
That was unlucky. :(

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 09:33 PM
Damn. Nice defense there and bad luck for Paul.

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2008, 09:34 PM
The Reds usually give away one or two outs a game on the basepaths.

RedsManRick
07-08-2008, 09:36 PM
Aramis Ramirez with a KG Jr triple....

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:36 PM
Ramirez bloops a triple to right past a diving Junior.

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 09:36 PM
It sure would be nice to have a rightfielder with range.

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2008, 09:36 PM
Griffey's defense is killing the Reds.

With Bruce in RF there is one out.

Red in Chicago
07-08-2008, 09:37 PM
junior much too slow to make that play...an unearned triple there

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:37 PM
Sac fly to center for Soto. 1-0 Cubs.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 09:37 PM
*sigh* Stand-up triple. Nice effort by Junior...but that was a bad decision AND it shows his lack of speed in the OF.

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2008, 09:37 PM
Chalk that run up to the defense.

CTA513
07-08-2008, 09:37 PM
A gift triple for Ramirez and a sac fly makes it 1-0 Cubs.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 09:38 PM
perfect fundamental ball there. DEEP FLY BALL with a man on third. I seem to remember saying something about that before. *grrrrrr*

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:39 PM
Edmonds walks.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:40 PM
You just knew that had to run the Edmonds highlight clips. It only took 2 innings. Those Edmonds highlights must be in George's contract.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:41 PM
DeRosa strikes out swinging. 2 Ks. 2 outs.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 09:42 PM
DeRosa K's. 2 k's for Harang...to go with 2 walks.

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 09:42 PM
I'm almost glad I have the Cubs broadcast rather than George tonight. I hate the Cubs but I need a Reds announcer that matches my contempt. George doesn't.

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2008, 09:43 PM
Harang can't throw strikes tonight.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:43 PM
Fontenot walks. The 3rd walk already. 1st and 2nd.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 09:43 PM
It's looking like Harang is far from getting the benefit of the doubt on the close pitches. 2 or 3 of those pitches looked like strikes.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:44 PM
Dempster strikes out looking. 3 Ks and 3 walks for Harang. 1-0 Cubs after 2.

Red in Chicago
07-08-2008, 09:46 PM
38 pitches for harang, of which only 18 were strikes...he's destined for a short outing at this pace...

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 09:46 PM
Coming into this game, Harang had 102 strikeouts with only 27 walks. Tonight, 3 and 3 so far. Not a formula for success for Aaron.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:47 PM
Harang lines out to 1st. 1 out.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 09:48 PM
Harang leads off the 3rd with a line out to 1st.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:48 PM
Hairston robbed again on a diving stop by Ramirez. 2 outs.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 09:48 PM
Hairston first pitch swinging...2 down. Nice stab by Ramirez.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:50 PM
Bruce strikes out swinging on a high fastball. 1-0 Cubs mid 3rd.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 09:51 PM
The Next Big Thing steps to the plate...and strikes out swinging. That was a quick inning.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:53 PM
Theriot lines a single to left center.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 09:57 PM
Fukodome walks but the 2-2 pitch again looked like strike 3. 1st and 2nd.

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2008, 09:57 PM
This looks like it will be a blowout because Harang has no idea of the strikezone tonight.

Red in Chicago
07-08-2008, 10:00 PM
he simply cannot afford to let lee on base with ramirez on deck...

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2008, 10:00 PM
And now he walks Lee.

Bases loaded and nobody out because Harang can't throw a strike.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:00 PM
Another walk. 5 walks and Harang has thrown a ton of pitches. Bases loaded no outs.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 10:01 PM
Wow. 5 walks for Harang in the 4th inning. Bases loaded no outs. This is NOT looking good.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:02 PM
Ramirez sac fly to center. That was not deep but the throw was no where near on target or the cut off man. 2-0 Cubs.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 10:03 PM
Cubs leading 2-0. Sac fly. Hmmm...another fly ball with a man on third. I wonder if Dusty has someone taking notes for him?

Red in Chicago
07-08-2008, 10:03 PM
a "phillips" sure would be nice here;)

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:05 PM
Soto strikes out swinging. 4 Ks. 2 outs.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 10:05 PM
Soto strikes out. 2 down. Men on 1st and 2nd.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 10:07 PM
Milwaukee up 4-0 on the Rockies (4th inning)
Astros up 1-0 over the Pirates (1st inning-delayed though)
Cards up 2-0 on the Phils (8th inning)

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2008, 10:08 PM
Nice job by Harang to limit the damage to just one run.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:08 PM
Edmonds flies out to right. Lucky to get out of that with only one run scoring. 2-0 Cubs after 3.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 10:08 PM
Got out of it with only 1 run across. *whew*

Edmonds pops out to right.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:09 PM
This is going to be a long bullpen night. Harang has thrown 74 pitches :eek: in 3 innings.

Red in Chicago
07-08-2008, 10:09 PM
74 pitches for harang...39 strikes...36 pitches that inning

Kc61
07-08-2008, 10:09 PM
Harang with control problems but seems to be throwing well. Really should have allowed only one run, that first one was strictly on the defense.

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 10:09 PM
These Cubs announcers are getting on my nerves. How many times is this guy going to say the Cubs have the best record in the NL?

We're fortunate just to be down two runs.

Screwball
07-08-2008, 10:09 PM
Edmonds flies out to right. Lucky to get out of that with only one run scoring. 2-0 Cubs after 3.

I prefer to call it excellent pitching when he needed it most.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 10:10 PM
Umm...maybe we should just pick one person to do the play-by-play. :O)

I'm gonna step out and just listen seeing as how OBM and RF seem to have it covered. *grin*

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:11 PM
Junior walks.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:13 PM
Phillips strikes out swinging. 1 out.

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 10:13 PM
BP looked horrible that AB.

Screwball
07-08-2008, 10:14 PM
Phillips seems like the type of hitter Dempster doesn't at all mind seeing in the batter's box.

Dunn, on the other hand, is a different story.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:15 PM
Dunn walks. 1st and 2nd.

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 10:15 PM
Great AB by Dunn.

Red in Chicago
07-08-2008, 10:16 PM
dempster showing some wildness..reds really need to capitalize here

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:17 PM
Bloop to right turns into a 9-6 FC as Dunn has to hold up thinking the ball would be caught. 1st and 3rd. 2 outs.

Screwball
07-08-2008, 10:18 PM
Bloop to right turns into a 9-6 FC as Dunn has to hold up thinking the ball would be caught. 1st and 3rd. 2 outs.

Unreal. I'm convinced Dempster went and sold his soul to the devil in the offseason.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:19 PM
Votto walks. The 3rd walk of the inning. Bases loaded for Bako.

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 10:19 PM
It's been an inning of good at bats with nothing to show yet (except for BP's monstrosity).

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2008, 10:21 PM
3-0 on Bako. He needs to take a couple pitches.

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 10:21 PM
Good job Bakowicz.

Red in Chicago
07-08-2008, 10:21 PM
woo hoo...a run:beerme:

WVRedsFan
07-08-2008, 10:21 PM
i'd rather have hits, if you don't mind.

Iknow you don't. Reds have 2 as do the Cubs.

Walk forces in a run. Wow.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:22 PM
4 pitch walk to Bako. 2-1 Cubs. Harang should not swing at anything here. Dempster is so wild now make him throw 3 strikes.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 10:22 PM
Alright! 2-1 Cubs. Way to be patient there Bako!

Kc61
07-08-2008, 10:22 PM
Reds scored on four walks this inning. Time to blame Dusty, they don't swing the bat enough.

Red in Chicago
07-08-2008, 10:22 PM
four walks and only score one run...pitiful...just pitiful

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:23 PM
Harang strikes out swinging on a low and outside pitch. 2-1 Cubs mid 4th.

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2008, 10:23 PM
Of course Harang swings at a 0-1 pitch well down and away. And again. Awful atbat. Dempster walked four in the inning and Harang helps him out by swinging at two awful pitches.

VR
07-08-2008, 10:23 PM
Edmonds flies out to right. Lucky to get out of that with only one run scoring. 2-0 Cubs after 3.

Unforced errors (walks, triple, doubled off, force out at 2nd) continue to just annihilate the Reds chances this tonight, and all year.

I realize the last two weren't neccessarily mental errors, but they have a propensity as a team to have 'bad luck'.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:24 PM
Dempster is at 72 pitches through 4.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 10:24 PM
As bad as Harang has been so far...Dempster's not far behind. We need to take advantage of this (his wildness) while we can. The coaches better be screaming "be patient" as the hitters head out.

Screwball
07-08-2008, 10:24 PM
Of course Harang swings at a 0-1 pitch well down and away. And again. Awful atbat. Dempster walked four in the inning and Harang helps him out by swinging at two awful pitches.

I'm not sure whose AB was worse: Harang or Phillips.

Of course, one has an excuse...

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2008, 10:26 PM
Harang walks DeRosa on four pitches and wasn't even close to throwing a strike.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:26 PM
4 pitch walk to DeRosa. 6 walks by Harang.

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 10:26 PM
Harang looks awful. If it is mechanical, Dick Pole needs to earn his money now.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 10:26 PM
You've got to be kidding me. What in the world is going on with Harang?

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:27 PM
Fontenot homers to center. 4-1 Cubs.

CTA513
07-08-2008, 10:27 PM
Just pull Harang before he gives up anymore runs.

RedsManRick
07-08-2008, 10:27 PM
Harang to the DL after this start. Please. Fix it.

dougdirt
07-08-2008, 10:27 PM
Anyone who supported Dusty Baker at the beginning of the season still think it was a good idea to let that man run our team and pitching staff?

Screwball
07-08-2008, 10:27 PM
Man, I hate to say it, but Harang's become a liability recently.

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2008, 10:28 PM
Harang to the DL after this start. Please. Fix it.

Agreed. Who cares about this season, we need Harang healthy for next season.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 10:28 PM
Harang looks awful. If it is mechanical, Dick Pole needs to earn his money now.

If it's MENTAL, Dick Pole STILL needs to earn his money. I haven't seen this guy have any effect on any of our pitchers.

2 run shot by Fontenot. *shakes head sadly*

dougdirt
07-08-2008, 10:28 PM
You've got to be kidding me. What in the world is going on with Harang?

Dusty Baker.

hebroncougar
07-08-2008, 10:28 PM
You've got to be kidding me. What in the world is going on with Harang?

You sure have to wonder don't ya? Well, Dick Pole obviously has no answers. There is no way, no how that I let Harang start on Sunday. Call it a half a season, and let him have a couple of weeks off. If there is nothing wrong with his arm, Pole should be fired. Yesterday.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:28 PM
Dempster bloops a single to center.

CTA513
07-08-2008, 10:28 PM
Someone tell Dusty that Harang doesn't have to stay in for his usual 100+ pitches.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 10:29 PM
Dusty Baker.

How do you figure? His pitch counts haven't been bad. That one relief stint in that extra-inning game was NOT the beginning of his bad appearances. It's something else.

Kc61
07-08-2008, 10:29 PM
Anyone who supported Dusty Baker at the beginning of the season still think it was a good idea to let that man run our team and pitching staff?


Let me guess. This is about the San Diego outing.

Not buying it.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:30 PM
Theriot grounds into a 4-6-3 DP. 2 outs.

Red in Chicago
07-08-2008, 10:30 PM
maj warming up...it doesn't get any better

dougdirt
07-08-2008, 10:30 PM
Let me guess. This is about the San Diego outing.

Not buying it.

Look at Harang for the 3 years before that, then look at Harang after it. Still don't buy it?

flyer85
07-08-2008, 10:31 PM
Harang seems ready for a DL trip

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:32 PM
Fukodome strikes out looking. 4-1 Cubs after 4.

hebroncougar
07-08-2008, 10:34 PM
How do you figure? His pitch counts haven't been bad. That one relief stint in that extra-inning game was NOT the beginning of his bad appearances. It's something else.

His ERA was 3.32 after that appearance. It's 4.50+ now. I'd say that was the beginning.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 10:34 PM
Look at Harang for the 3 years before that, then look at Harang after it. Still don't buy it?

Look at him since spring training. If it's coaching...it's on Pole. If it's pitch-count...it's on Dusty. If it's mechanics/mental...it's on Pole. I sure haven't seen anything out of the ordinary in terms of Pitchcounts with Harang this year. If you're going to blame that San Diego game, look at his stuff BEFORE that game this year. Not much difference. He's been solidly poor all year (snake-bit a bit early on...but still). This is either on Pole...or Harang. Odds are, it's a confidence problem.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:34 PM
Hairston has been robbed 3 times tonight. Another diving stop by Ramirez. 1 out.

RedsManRick
07-08-2008, 10:34 PM
Welcome to the wonderful world of regression, Jerry.

guttle11
07-08-2008, 10:35 PM
Who did Hairston tick off? Goodness.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:35 PM
Bruce strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:37 PM
Junior grounds out to 2nd. 4-1 Cubs mid 5th.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:41 PM
Lee walks. 7 walks. Now 97 pitches.

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 10:41 PM
The beat goes on.....

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 10:41 PM
His ERA was 3.32 after that appearance. It's 4.50+ now. I'd say that was the beginning.

Nope. On the 22nd he went 5.1 and gave up 10 hits / 5 runs.
12th, 7 ip / 4 runs / 7 hits / 3 dingers

Up to that extra inning game he'd still given up 8 homers already. He's now at 19 dingers.

I'm not trying to defend Baker for using him in that SD game. Just saying he was already struggling BEFORE that outing. Since that outing it's just progressively gotten worse. There's something wrong and it's not pitch count or related to that SD game.

hebroncougar
07-08-2008, 10:41 PM
The beat goes on.....

Cubs fans chuckling under their breath, and mumbling, he STILL doesn't get it.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:44 PM
Ramirez strikes out swinging. Lee steals 2nd. 104 pitches.

flyer85
07-08-2008, 10:45 PM
There's something wrong and it's not pitch count or related to that SD game.we will never know ... the point is that going to starters was a risk not worth taking for the outcome of one game.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 10:46 PM
we will never know ... the point is that going to starters was a risk not worth taking for the outcome of one game.

Oh, no doubt. That was a horribly managed game. I'm certainly not trying to defend THAT travesty. I just saw problems with Aaron BEFORE that game.

NC Reds
07-08-2008, 10:47 PM
This is pathetic.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:47 PM
Soto homers to left. 6-1 Cubs.

CrackerJack
07-08-2008, 10:47 PM
wow what a meat ball, straight and hanging BB

OnBaseMachine
07-08-2008, 10:47 PM
Let's see. Your ace is coming off an injury. He's thrown over 100 pitches in 4+ innings and is struggling, so yeah let's leave him in to put the team behind even more.

Cyclone792
07-08-2008, 10:48 PM
I'm not trying to defend Baker for using him in that SD game. Just saying he was already struggling BEFORE that outing. Since that outing it's just progressively gotten worse. There's something wrong and it's not pitch count or related to that SD game.

Miley abuse

Narron abuse

Baker abuse

Third time's the charm. It wouldn't surprise me if Harang has a nasty injury that surfaces sometime soon.

dougdirt
07-08-2008, 10:48 PM
Nope. On the 22nd he went 5.1 and gave up 10 hits / 5 runs.
12th, 7 ip / 4 runs / 7 hits / 3 dingers

Up to that extra inning game he'd still given up 8 homers already. He's now at 19 dingers.

I'm not trying to defend Baker for using him in that SD game. Just saying he was already struggling BEFORE that outing. Since that outing it's just progressively gotten worse. There's something wrong and it's not pitch count or related to that SD game.

Harang Pre and post SD relief outing counting the beating he took today....



IP H BB K ER ERA WHIP H/9 BB/9 K/9
Pre SD 74.7 73 18 63 29 3.5 1.21 8.79 2.16 7.59
Post SD 44.3 63 15 36 36 7.30 1.75 12.78 3.37 7.30



So yeah, I think there is a major correlation to him being used in relief in San Diego on no rest what so ever.

Kc61
07-08-2008, 10:48 PM
Look at Harang for the 3 years before that, then look at Harang after it. Still don't buy it?

No.

Two days before the relief outing Harang allowed five runs on ten hits to the Padres. I've heard people say it was bad luck. But he allowed ten hits that Friday night.

Two outings before that, against Florida, he gave up four runs in 7 innings.

Were those outings in anticipation of the relief stint?

Against Boston on June 13, after the SD relief outing, Harang allowed one run on four hits in seven innings, with seven strikeouts. Against the best team in baseball. After the relief outing.

Harang isn't right, he hasn't pitched well most times, maybe he's hurt, maybe he's tipping his pitches, maybe his arm is shot from pitching too many innings, who knows. But I think it is a major stretch to pin in on that relief outing.

flyer85
07-08-2008, 10:48 PM
I will never understand Dusty and his reluctance to replace obviously struggling pitchers

hebroncougar
07-08-2008, 10:48 PM
I just don't get it. Baker just let our #1 starter (arguably) embarass himself, after clearly, and I mean clearly having something wrong tonight.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:48 PM
As usual Dusty leaves the pitchers in to long to give up extra runs.

CTA513
07-08-2008, 10:49 PM
Only only took 108 pitches and giving up 6 runs in 4.1 innings before he was pulled.

CTA513
07-08-2008, 10:50 PM
I just don't get it. Baker just let our #1 starter (arguably) embarass himself, after clearly, and I mean clearly having something wrong tonight.

He let Harang do the same thing against the Marlins.

guttle11
07-08-2008, 10:50 PM
Even if he's healthy, I don't want to see Harang again until August. If he's hurt at all, shut him down for the year.

Please.

dougdirt
07-08-2008, 10:50 PM
No.

Two days before the relief outing Harang allowed five runs on ten hits to the Padres. I've heard people say it was bad luck. But he allowed ten hits that Friday night.

Two outings before that, against Florida, he gave up four runs in 7 innings.

Were those outings in anticipation of the relief stint?

Against Boston on June 13, after the SD relief outing, Harang allowed one run on four hits in seven innings, with seven strikeouts. Against the best team in baseball. After the relief outing.

Harang isn't right, he hasn't pitched well most times, maybe he's hurt, maybe he's tipping his pitches, maybe his arm is shot from pitching too many innings, who knows. But I think it is a major stretch to pin in on that relief outing.

Harang allowed 2 starts in which he allowed more than 3 earned runs in his 11 starts before the relief outing. He has allowed 3 earned runs or more in 5 of 8 since then.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:51 PM
Affeldt in to pitch.

Edmonds pops out to short. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:52 PM
DeRosa strikes out swinging. 6-1 Cubs after 5.

hebroncougar
07-08-2008, 10:54 PM
He let Harang do the same thing against the Marlins.

It's one thing to have your horse take some abuse when you need innings eaten. Here, we are coming off of an off day, granted it's the beginning or a road trip and you don't want to eat your pen on the first day, but this is what Affeldt is for, not the guy you've got $40 million invested in over the next 3 years.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:56 PM
Phillips grounds out to short. 1 out.

_Sir_Charles_
07-08-2008, 10:57 PM
No.

Two days before the relief outing Harang allowed five runs on ten hits to the Padres. I've heard people say it was bad luck. But he allowed ten hits that Friday night.

Two outings before that, against Florida, he gave up four runs in 7 innings.

Were those outings in anticipation of the relief stint?

Against Boston on June 13, after the SD relief outing, Harang allowed one run on four hits in seven innings, with seven strikeouts. Against the best team in baseball. After the relief outing.

Harang isn't right, he hasn't pitched well most times, maybe he's hurt, maybe he's tipping his pitches, maybe his arm is shot from pitching too many innings, who knows. But I think it is a major stretch to pin in on that relief outing.

Spot on. Maybe it IS his innings pitched over the past few years. But it had never bothered him before? Why now? If it's an injury, he needs to be DL'd without a doubt. But it's been snowballing lately, that leads me to believe it's mental. That he's simply lost his confidence, it can even happen to vets. Obviously, missing one start wasn't enough though. Mental or physical, he needs a rather long break.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:57 PM
Dunn flies out to center. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 10:58 PM
Keppinger grounds out to short. 6-1 Cubs mid 6th.

MikeS21
07-08-2008, 11:00 PM
I do not see ANY link between the relief outing and the numbers since, for two obvious reasons:

1) Harang's numbers were not "Aaron Harang good" BEFORE the relief stint in SD. He has had games here and there that were OK, but he has not really been himself since Opening Day.

2) On the day of the relief stint, Harang VOLUNTEERED to pitch. Dusty originally refused, but Harang told him, it was his regular day to throw on the side anyway, and he might as well get his work in, in an actual game situation as opposed to a bullpen session. It just so happened that Harang cruised through those relief innings, barely breaking a sweat.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:01 PM
Fontenot lines a double to right.

flyer85
07-08-2008, 11:02 PM
But I think it is a major stretch to pin in on that relief outing.not the point ... the point is why take the risk with a front of the rotation starter for the outcome of one game

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:03 PM
Now a 4 pitch walk to Dempster.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:04 PM
And a wild pitch moves the runners to 2nd and 3rd. This game is turning into a bad joke.

dougdirt
07-08-2008, 11:04 PM
I do not see ANY link between the relief outing and the numbers since, for two obvious reasons:

1) Harang's numbers were not "Aaron Harang good" BEFORE the relief stint in SD. He has had games here and there that were OK, but he has not really been himself since Opening Day.

2) On the day of the relief stint, Harang VOLUNTEERED to pitch. Dusty originally refused, but Harang told him, it was his regular day to throw on the side anyway, and he might as well get his work in, in an actual game situation as opposed to a bullpen session. It just so happened that Harang cruised through those relief innings, barely breaking a sweat.

I don't really care if Harang offered to pitch it or not, it was absolutely the worst managerial decision of the year in all of major league baseball. It was followed likely by Baker throwing Volquez in the 18th of that same game.

As for your #1.... Harang allowed more than 3 earned runs twice in 11 starts before that game. He has now allowed 3 or more in 5 of 8 and in all of those 5 or more earned runs.

flyer85
07-08-2008, 11:05 PM
looks like this week is a good bet to end the charade of the 2008 Reds

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:06 PM
And another wild pitch/passed ball? makes it 7-1 Cubs.

Kc61
07-08-2008, 11:06 PM
Harang allowed 2 starts in which he allowed more than 3 earned runs in his 11 starts before the relief outing. He has allowed 3 earned runs or more in 5 of 8 since then.

Actually, Harang allowed five at Chicago, four against Florida, and five against SD, all before the relief outing.

Perhaps more importantly, two of these three outings were just before the relief outing. Including a disaster two days before the relief outing.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:06 PM
Theriot flies out to center.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:08 PM
Fukodome strikes out swinging.

dougdirt
07-08-2008, 11:11 PM
Actually, Harang allowed five at Chicago, four against Florida, and five against SD all before the relief outing.

Perhaps more importantly, two of these three outings were just before the relief outing. Including a disaster two days before the relief outing.

Missed the Florida start. You are right. Still, 3 of 11 and 5 of 8.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:11 PM
Lee lines out to 1st. 7-1 Cubs after 6.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:13 PM
Votto grounds out to 2nd.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:15 PM
Bako grounds out to 2nd. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:18 PM
A. Phillips strikes out looking. 10 in a row retired by Dempster. Reds have managed 2 hits all night.

CrackerJack
07-08-2008, 11:18 PM
A. Phillips strikes out looking. 10 in a row retired by Dempster. Reds have managed 2 hits all night.

Sounds...familiar....

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:21 PM
Majewski in to pitch

Infield hit for Ramirez

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:23 PM
Great play by Hairston starts a 6-4-3 DP.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:24 PM
Edmonds strikes out swinging. 7-1 Cubs after 7.

Kc61
07-08-2008, 11:25 PM
Missed the Florida start. You are right. Still, 3 of 11 and 5 of 8.

It was very uncharacteristic of Harang to be bombed that Friday night by San Diego. Ten hits in 5.1 inning against a weak hitting team.

I wish he hadn't pitched in relief. I also wish Harang had been babied more by the last several managers, including Baker. He's pitched a ton of innings over the last few years.

But even so, it is simply speculation why Harang's season has gone south.

reds44
07-08-2008, 11:25 PM
keppinger plays 3rd base worse than he does shortstop.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:27 PM
Neal Cotts in to pitch.

4 pitch walk to Hairston.

Kc61
07-08-2008, 11:29 PM
Welcome to the wonderful world of regression, Jerry.

Walk to Hairston, recovering from the wonderful world of regression.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:29 PM
Bruce strikes out swinging for the 3rd time tonight. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:30 PM
4 pitch walk to Junior. 1st and 2nd.

edabbs44
07-08-2008, 11:34 PM
It was very uncharacteristic of Harang to be bombed that Friday night by San Diego. Ten hits in 5.1 inning against a weak hitting team.

I wish he hadn't pitched in relief. I also wish Harang had been babied more by the last several managers, including Baker. He's pitched a ton of innings over the last few years.

But even so, it is simply speculation why Harang's season has gone south.

Absolutely right. The relief appearance is just a convenient excuse for the Dusty bashers.

Dusty's a fool, but this probably has nothing to do with the relief appearance.

Then again, if this is truly the beginning of the downfall of Harang, then I am really looking forward to having two Miltons on the roster starting next year. Yippee.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:34 PM
Marmol in to pitch.

Phillips pops out to 3rd. 2 outs.

Wheelhouse
07-08-2008, 11:34 PM
"Big home run swing, and Aaron Boone pops out."

Wheelhouse
07-08-2008, 11:36 PM
Whiff... that hurt my feelings.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:36 PM
Dunn strikes out swinging. 7-1 Cubs mid 8th.

CTA513
07-08-2008, 11:37 PM
He had a 1st pitch slider to hammer and watched it for strike 1.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:39 PM
DeRosa grounds out to short. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:40 PM
Fontenot grounds out to short. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:42 PM
Ward grounds out to 3rd. 7-1 Cubs after 8.

Wheelhouse
07-08-2008, 11:42 PM
Terrific play by Keppinger that will show up in no other statistic but a PO

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:45 PM
Howry in to pitch.

Keppinger singles to center.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:47 PM
Votto flies out to left. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:49 PM
Bako singles to right. 1st and 2nd.

Red in Chicago
07-08-2008, 11:50 PM
nm

Tony Cloninger
07-08-2008, 11:51 PM
The book on Dunn is that he takes the first pitch almost all the time.....so it figures that would have been the best pitch to hit the whole AB.

KC....people are waiting with bated breath for JH to regress.....I am sure even if he walks it will not be deemed as good as Dunn walking. ;)

When he was not hurt in 2005.....were his numbers bad? They looked okay to me.....either way...he is healthy now but he still will struggle eventually....and people are going to beat that into the ground, just like they did about a month ago when he went through a down cycle.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:51 PM
Valentin doubles off the wall in center. 7-2 Cubs. 2nd and 3rd.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:53 PM
Hairston grounds out to short. 7-3 Cubs. 2 outs. Runner on 2nd.

Reds Fanatic
07-08-2008, 11:55 PM
Bruce strikes out swinging for the 4th time tonight. Reds lose 7-3.

Wheelhouse
07-08-2008, 11:56 PM
Bruce strikes out on a--you guessed it--low pitch.

Tony Cloninger
07-09-2008, 12:00 AM
Bruce missed his fastball....and the Cubs announcers...really Bob? Inside is his problem area.....I say I know better than you. It's called low...low and away soft stuff that turns Bruce into Patterson.

Spring~Fields
07-09-2008, 12:00 AM
Cincinnati
IP H R ER BB K HR Season ERA
A. Harang 4.1 5 6 6 7 6 2 4.76
J. Affeldt 1.2 1 1 0 1 2 0 4.00
G. Majewski 2.0 1 0 0 0 1 0 4.41

Chi Cubs
IP H R ER BB K HR Season ERA
R. Dempster 7.0 2 1 1 4 5 0 3.13
N. Cotts 0.1 0 0 0 2 1 0 2.51
C. Marmol 0.2 0 0 0 0 1 0 3.55
B. Howry 1.0 3 0 0 0 1 0 4.26


WP - J Affeldt.

HBP - J Bruce (by R Dempster).

Pitches-strikes - A Harang 108-58; J Affeldt 30-18; G Majewski 24-14; R Dempster 103-59; N Cotts 13-3; C Marmol 9-5.

Ground balls-fly balls - A Harang 3-3; J Affeldt 0-3; G Majewski 5-0; R Dempster 10-5; N Cotts 0-0; C Marmol 0-1.

Batters faced - A Harang 23; J Affeldt 7; G Majewski 6; R Dempster 27; N Cotts 3; C Marmol 2.



Scoring Summary
Bot 2nd: Chi Cubs
- G. Soto hit sacrifice fly to deep center, A. Ramirez scored


Bot 3rd: Chi Cubs
- A. Ramirez hit sacrifice fly to center, R. Theriot scored


Top 4th: Cincinnati
- P. Bako walked, K. Griffey Jr. scored, J. Keppinger to third, J. Votto to second


Bot 4th: Chi Cubs
- M. Fontenot homered to deep center, M. DeRosa scored


Bot 5th: Chi Cubs
- G. Soto homered to deep left center, D. Lee scored


Bot 6th: Chi Cubs
- M. Fontenot scored, R. Dempster to third on wild pitch


Top 9th: Cincinnati
- J. Valentin doubled to deep center, J. Keppinger scored, P. Bako to third

- J. Hairston Jr. grounded out to shortstop, P. Bako scored

Batting
RBI - P Bako (26).

2-out RBI - P Bako.

Runners left in scoring position, 2 out - A Dunn 1, A Harang 2.

Team LOB - 7.


Fielding
PB - P Bako.

DP - 2 (B Phillips-J Hairston Jr-J Votto, J Hairston Jr-B Phillips-J Votto).


Batting
2B - M Fontenot (11, J Affeldt).

3B - A Ramirez (1, A Harang).

HR - M Fontenot (6, 4th inning off A Harang 1 on, 0 Out), G Soto (16, 5th inning off A Harang 1 on, 1 Out).

SF - A Ramirez , G Soto.

RBI - G Soto 3 (55), A Ramirez (61), M Fontenot 2 (18).

Runners left in scoring position, 2 out - J Edmonds 1, D Lee 1, R Dempster 1.

GIDP - R Theriot, G Soto.

Team LOB - 5.
Base Running
SB - D Lee (5, 2nd base off A Harang/P Bako).

CS - K Fukudome (4, 2nd base by A Harang/P Bako).
Fielding
Outfield assists - K Fukudome (A Dunn at 2nd base).

DP - 1 (M Fontenot-R Theriot).

Spring~Fields
07-09-2008, 12:11 AM
Fay on Harang

Aaron Harang went 4 1/3 innings and gave up six runs in five hits. He walked a career-high seven.

He's 3-11 with a 4.61 ERA. Last year at the break, he was 10-3 with 3.70 ERA. He's given up five or more runs in six of his last nine starts.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a7579a3b8-3800-45a5-9b82-dbe33c670945&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Big Klu
07-09-2008, 12:34 AM
I think I would consider skipping Harang on Sunday, and going with a bullpen day at Milwaukee. (Maybe Affeldt could get the start.) Everybody will be available, anyway.

Wheelhouse
07-09-2008, 12:42 AM
The book on Dunn is that he takes the first pitch almost all the time.....so it figures that would have been the best pitch to hit the whole AB.

KC....people are waiting with bated breath for JH to regress.....I am sure even if he walks it will not be deemed as good as Dunn walking. ;)

When he was not hurt in 2005.....were his numbers bad? They looked okay to me.....either way...he is healthy now but he still will struggle eventually....and people are going to beat that into the ground, just like they did about a month ago when he went through a down cycle.

Here, here. Hairston is a good ballplayer in all areas.

WVRedsFan
07-09-2008, 12:49 AM
Once again, Harang's pitching and Griffey's gift triple made no difference in this game. The Reds got 5 hits tonight. Not hardly enough to even get them in most games. If we don't get lights out pitching we lose. It's that simple.

Jay Bruce struck out 4 times and Reds castoff Ryan Dempster, an All Star, held the Reds to 2 hits over 7 innings. Give me a break. More alarming is the first 5 batters in the batting order did not get a hit. None. All five hits came from positions 6-9.

My opinion is that Harang has a problem he's hiding. Time will tell, but we can ill afford to not have him around next year, so he'd better get fixed this year.

Wheelhouse
07-09-2008, 12:53 AM
Bruce missed his fastball....and the Cubs announcers...really Bob? Inside is his problem area.....I say I know better than you. It's called low...low and away soft stuff that turns Bruce into Patterson.

Yep. Will he be coached through it? Doubtful. I'm sure some of the veterans on this club have made it clear it's showing up a player to take him aside.

penantboundreds
07-09-2008, 01:59 AM
This team kind of makes me sick?

This is not a knock on Votto, please, don't go off on me.......but I'd like him to get in Bruce's head a little and find out what's going on, then try to see how he can help make the kids adjustments a little easier.

Can you help me out here guys, How was the ball Ramirez hit an absolute out? I didn't exactly see it, I was kind of doing something and the part of the replay I saw was Griffey diving for the ball and coming up a hair short, but I'm not sure why it was a gift triple, once again, some help please.

WVRedsFan
07-09-2008, 02:30 AM
This team kind of makes me sick?

This is not a knock on Votto, please, don't go off on me.......but I'd like him to get in Bruce's head a little and find out what's going on, then try to see how he can help make the kids adjustments a little easier.

Can you help me out here guys, How was the ball Ramirez hit an absolute out? I didn't exactly see it, I was kind of doing something and the part of the replay I saw was Griffey diving for the ball and coming up a hair short, but I'm not sure why it was a gift triple, once again, some help please.

Here's the deal pbr. Any ball, no matter the effort, hit toward Griffey is a sure out if Bruce in in right field. Bank on it. Any ball that Bruce misplays in center is because he's playing out of position--he should be in right and Griffey should be in the retirement home. Bank on it. Any base running error made by Bruce is OK because he is the golden child. Any lack of effort shown by Griffey, even with legs held together with screws, is simply a lack of effort. Any move that doesn't work is the total fault of Dusty Baker. Case closed. Any bad pitching performance is becaue Baker abuses his pitchers. You got all that down?

If you've digested that, there are a couple more. This team would be a contender if only we had a competent right fielder. I can't name who that would be, but that's the company line. Oh, yeah, that's Bruce Magnificent. I forgot. Center field should be manned by...I don't know who. Do you? Maybe someone on the farm who is a great prospect? Maybe. Bray is the next coming of Norm Charlton and Weathers is just too old. Volquez is king while Arroyo is junk. Harang will get over his slump (he's not injured) while Darryl Thompson should be our fifth starter because of a shaky 5 inning stint against the dreaded Yankees.

It's RedsZone at its finest. Ignore the fact that we have a roster that is the worst in the last 10 years flooded with left handed batters who can't hit left handed pitching and a cleanup hitter who isn't really a cleanup hitter.

If only we had Freel and Hopper to anchor the lineup.

nate
07-09-2008, 08:46 AM
Here's the deal pbr. Any ball, no matter the effort, hit toward Griffey is a sure out if Bruce in in right field. Bank on it. Any ball that Bruce misplays in center is because he's playing out of position--he should be in right and Griffey should be in the retirement home. Bank on it. Any base running error made by Bruce is OK because he is the golden child. Any lack of effort shown by Griffey, even with legs held together with screws, is simply a lack of effort. Any move that doesn't work is the total fault of Dusty Baker. Case closed. Any bad pitching performance is becaue Baker abuses his pitchers. You got all that down?

If you've digested that, there are a couple more. This team would be a contender if only we had a competent right fielder. I can't name who that would be, but that's the company line. Oh, yeah, that's Bruce Magnificent. I forgot. Center field should be manned by...I don't know who. Do you? Maybe someone on the farm who is a great prospect? Maybe. Bray is the next coming of Norm Charlton and Weathers is just too old. Volquez is king while Arroyo is junk. Harang will get over his slump (he's not injured) while Darryl Thompson should be our fifth starter because of a shaky 5 inning stint against the dreaded Yankees.

It's RedsZone at its finest. Ignore the fact that we have a roster that is the worst in the last 10 years flooded with left handed batters who can't hit left handed pitching and a cleanup hitter who isn't really a cleanup hitter.

If only we had Freel and Hopper to anchor the lineup.

:rolleyes: