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View Full Version : The hamilton Replacements struggling. (bruce&volquez)



bgwilly31
07-09-2008, 12:33 PM
BRUCE> And volquez.


Ok lets start with volquez.

Ive been saying it for the longest time. I think volquez has been pitching unbelievably well. And im rooting for him endlessly. But I think a lot of fans are jumping the gun a little bit with him acting as if hes already an established super star. Give the league a little time to scout him out. And then make your decisions.

Well his last 3 starts have been far from dominant. Especially his last one against the flipping nationals. Now facing the brewers next at the brew crews place, i think will be his most important game of his career to date. If he can come out of that game with flying colors that would be huge for him. But if not I would say it might be the start of a trend.

Im not passing judgement on the guy over 3 bad starts. Just discussing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOW FOR BRUCE>

Biggest dissapointment for me right now is bruce. I was never convinced of bruce from the start. His minor league numbers (strikeouts) had me scarred from the beginning. But then he came out on an act of god, as most redszone called it. And made me think twice. Well maybe this kid has made adjustments. He looked a lot like HAMILTON at the plate. Very patient. hit for contact and had power. Just all around studly.

But what in the world has happened to this kid. I think a lot of reds fans have been wearing beer goggles while watching this kid. Hes been looked terrible at the plate for a long while now. And seems to be getting worse.

It seems like every time hes up to the plate if the count even gets this far 3 pitches in its a 1-2 count. He's always hitting behind in the count. Because now he's all of the sudden swinging at everything. And usually missing or fouling it off. Somebody needs to grab this kid before this gets worse and Make him be patient at the plate at the very least. I dont care how big of a slump your in. The one thing you can change is how aggressive you are at the plate.



Dunn and griffey are bruces best friends on the team. This is my conspiracy theory for everyone to think about. Much like a new employee. A lot of the times they will work the hardest in the first few weeks. Until they start to realize after watching and befriending their co-workers. "Well hey i can get away with slacking on this, and this and that." Bruce came in a stud. Now he has completely done a 180 and looks like a completely opposite type player.

Imagine this.

Imagine for a second Bruce didnt come out into the league like "an act of god." Imagine bruce started and looked as he does right now. I think we all would be very worried right now if thats how the cookie crumbled. He looks god awful at the plate AB after AB after AB.

Bruce in the last 17 games. And it probably gets worse than this if you go back a little further.

12-65 AVG .185
27 strikeouts
only 3 yes 3walks

BLEEDS
07-09-2008, 03:22 PM
Um, that "flippin" Nationals game was 6 innnings, 5 hits, and 3 ER's - otherwise known as a "QUALITY START".

He's had like 13 QS's out of his 18 starts this year, and the ones he didn't have were 5 or 5 1/3 innings of 0, 1, 1, and 3 ER's, and the ONE bad game was the Toronto game where he gave up 5 ER's in 4 1/3rd. To me, that's ONE bad game out of 18. We've got WAY more worries than our All-Star Pitcher.

Bruce may be one of them now that the Honeymoon is over and he's playing his role of struggling rookie - and the pitchers are adjusting to him. He's going to have to cut down on the K's for sure, otherwise he's going to make Adam Dunn look like a contact hitter... His OBP and SLG are WAY WAY WAY down as well, which even when Dunn is struggling, he still hits for power when he hits, and he still draws walks.

June was a HORRIBLE month for our offense in general, let's hope they ALL snap out of it.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Jim Fazio
07-09-2008, 03:28 PM
Again let me say I would have never made the deal for Volquez who will get 30-35 starts a yr and not have his good stuff in at least 10 of the starts for a guy with the talent of Hamilton. This trade will probably haunt the reds for a long time. Hope to be wrong!!

Jim Fazio
07-09-2008, 03:32 PM
I bet Jacoby has gotten to Bruce and that is why he is slumpnig. Who is the batting coach at Louville?

mroby85
07-09-2008, 03:47 PM
Again let me say I would have never made the deal for Volquez who will get 30-35 starts a yr and not have his good stuff in at least 10 of the starts for a guy with the talent of Hamilton. This trade will probably haunt the reds for a long time. Hope to be wrong!!

you can't look at it like him only getting 30-35 starts, because once you get to the postseason pitching is what wins. you have a shortened series with 3 pitchers, and the best offense seldom wins, it's usually the team with the best pitching. See AZ when they had johnson and schilling.

I didn't like the trade when they made it, but now that volquez has proven to be a stud, i think it was a good trade. I'd always trade a position player for a good pitcher, even though i absolutely love hamilton.

To be honest, i'm not worried about bruce, he's only 21 years old, and he's going to have his struggles, you can tell he's a good hitter, just from watching him play. I think he'll be fine.

this is just all my opinion, so take it for what it's worth, but thats how i feel about it.

keeganbrick
07-09-2008, 04:23 PM
wtf......end this thread plz

bgwilly31
07-09-2008, 04:31 PM
Um, that "flippin" Nationals game was 6 innnings, 5 hits, and 3 ER's - otherwise known as a "QUALITY START".

He's had like 13 QS's out of his 18 starts this year, and the ones he didn't have were 5 or 5 1/3 innings of 0, 1, 1, and 3 ER's, and the ONE bad game was the Toronto game where he gave up 5 ER's in 4 1/3rd. To me, that's ONE bad game out of 18. We've got WAY more worries than our All-Star Pitcher.
-BLEEDS

Okay i agree with you on bruce.

But trying to say EV was himself VS the nationals is just BLIND Mr. bleeds.

EV's normal self according to earlier games he should have had a 1-2 hitter going into 6 innings and at least 8 SO's after 6IP VS a team like the nationals.

But instead we got
6IP
3 walks
And only 3 SO's against the nationals.

If you actually watched the game instead of looking at the headlines you would have noticed EV didnt have his stuff. It was obvious.

So for his 3rd start in a row. Even against arguably the worst team in the league. Next to us. ;) He still couldnt dominate.


All-Star Edinson Volquez was not his usual solid self in the early going on Sunday, as he struggled with his control during a three-run Nats third.

As a matter of fact heres the opening sentence to games summary on reds.com



I didn't like the trade when they made it, but now that volquez has proven to be a stud, i think it was a good trade. I'd always trade a position player for a good pitcher, even though i absolutely love hamilton.

To be honest, i'm not worried about bruce, he's only 21 years old, and he's going to have his struggles, you can tell he's a good hitter, just from watching him play. I think he'll be fine.

this is just all my opinion, so take it for what it's worth, but thats how i feel about it.

2 parts of your opinion stuck out at me.


First I have to dissagree with you when you say EV is a PROVEN stud.

I think he is a full year away from being a proven stud in my books. Hes got stuff no doubt about it. But you must give the league sometime to "break" him. Some guys dont break. Some do. I dont think its been long enough yet to decide. Especially considering his last three starts.


2nd Thats exactly my point that Worries me so much about bruce. YOU CANT tell he can hit just by watching him.


Imagine this.

Imagine for a second Bruce didnt come out into the league like "an act of god." Imagine bruce started and looked as he does right now. I think we all would be very worried right now if thats how the cookie crumbled. He looks god awful at the plate AB after AB after AB.

CMON bruce.

keeganbrick
07-09-2008, 04:39 PM
What is the point of this? If EV is taking 1 hitters into the 6th inning every game he would go down as the best pitcher in the history of the MLB. EV is not going to have an ERA below 2 for his career. He is still a great pitcher if he maintain a ERA of around 3. As for Bruce, he didnt just become a major league player becuase people thought he was good....He has been doing it his whole life on every level. Everyone goes through slumps, bad ABs, etc. He is 21 years old, playing at the highest level, still getting adjusted.

bgwilly31
07-09-2008, 04:44 PM
wtf......end this thread plz

right. :rolleyes:

Perfect example of a blind reds fan that obviously doesnt know the game.

Bruce in the last 17 games. And it probably gets worse than this if you go back a little further.

12-65 AVG .185
27 strikeouts
only 3 yes 3walks

bgwilly31
07-09-2008, 04:55 PM
What is the point of this? If EV is taking 1 hitters into the 6th inning every game he would go down as the best pitcher in the history of the MLB. EV is not going to have an ERA below 2 for his career. He is still a great pitcher if he maintain a ERA of around 3. As for Bruce, he didnt just become a major league player becuase people thought he was good....He has been doing it his whole life on every level. Everyone goes through slumps, bad ABs, etc. He is 21 years old, playing at the highest level, still getting adjusted.

If your a proven stud. Im pretty sure AGAINST the nationals you should be able to have a good chance of a 1-2 hitter and 8k's against the worst team and worst scoring team in the entire MLB.

But nice way of twisting someones words.
Nobody said his era should be under 2 for his career either.My point is from these last 3 starts. He might be on the same path as Bruce right now. Falling from the clouds. Lets hope not.


As for bruce. Your right. Looking at his stats with AAA one might expect to see the kind of player were seeing right now. Maybe not this bad but close.

He was tied with A.DUNN in k's this year right before he came out of AAA> Difference was he was in AAA dunn was facing MLB pitchers. Not todd coffey.

keeganbrick
07-09-2008, 04:55 PM
Do you know what slumps are....well they can get even worse for 21 yr old rookies who are trying to adjust. Dont start critisizing others when you are creating threads like this.

bgwilly31
07-09-2008, 05:08 PM
Do you know what slumps are....well they can get even worse for 21 yr old rookies who are trying to adjust. Dont start critisizing others when you are creating threads like this.

i dont understand your post. dont critiCize when creating threads like this?
Whats that supposed to mean?

I know baseball so yes i no what slumps are.

If you actually watched the games and understood what you were watching you would understand that Bruce is not just going through a slump.

He's completely changed his style and approach to the game. He's gone from very patient to wanting to swing at the first pitch he thinks he can hit. Even if it bounces to him.

And from actually watching him he doesnt seem to be even trying to make adjustments.

Thats a little different from slumping.

thatcoolguy_22
07-09-2008, 06:56 PM
wtf......end this thread plz


minus the wtf I concur.

Chalk it up to incredibly young players going through growing pains.

RedsIn07
07-09-2008, 07:39 PM
Bruce in the last 17 games. And it probably gets worse than this if you go back a little further.

12-65 AVG .185
27 strikeouts
only 3 yes 3walks

B. Phillips in his last 19 Games has 3 walks.
J. Hairston in his last 19 has 5 walks.
E. Encarnacion in his last 19 has 6 walks.
J. Votto in his last 19 has 8 walks.

No one on this team aside from Dunn is both getting on base and producing power numbers at a good rate, and we're complaining about the 21 year old in his rookie season who only has 166 PA's? He'll learn, there will be hick ups and probably enough of them for us to doubt his talent/potential, but he'll learn.

JWP
07-09-2008, 07:56 PM
If your a proven stud. Im pretty sure AGAINST the nationals you should be able to have a good chance of a 1-2 hitter and 8k's against the worst team and worst scoring team in the entire MLB.

This is honestly some of the most ridiculous stuff that I've ever read on this board.

Edinson Volquez is "struggling" because he is not routinely carrying 1-2 hitters through 7 innings against Major League offenses?

Seriously?

Just because he didn't completely obliterate the Nationals doesn't mean that he's "slumping." If 6 IP and 3 ER is your definition of "slumping," thank God Edinson Volquez is a Red. The Nationals offense is bad, yes, but it is still comprised of Major League hitters. Major League hitters, believe it or not, can swing the bat. Your expectations of what Volquez "should" be doing are ludicrous. Absolutely insane.



Nobody said his era should be under 2 for his career either.My point is from these last 3 starts. He might be on the same path as Bruce right now. Falling from the clouds. Lets hope not.

Volquez has been a league average pitcher over his last three starts. I don't think many people expected Volquez to be a league-average pitcher over the course of the entire season. He's not exactly "falling from the clouds" because his ERA has soared to the 2.40 range.

I do agree with you on Bruce, though.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-09-2008, 08:04 PM
This is honestly some of the most ridiculous stuff that I've ever read on this board.

Edinson Volquez is "struggling" because he is not routinely carrying 1-2 hitters through 7 innings against Major League offenses?

Seriously?

Just because he didn't completely obliterate the Nationals doesn't mean that he's "slumping." If 6 IP and 3 ER is your definition of "slumping," thank God Edinson Volquez is a Red. The Nationals offense is bad, yes, but it is still comprised of Major League hitters. Major League hitters, believe it or not, can swing the bat. Your expectations of what Volquez "should" be doing are ludicrous. Absolutely insane.




Volquez has been a league average pitcher over his last three starts. I don't think many people expected Volquez to be a league-average pitcher over the course of the entire season. He's not exactly "falling from the clouds" because his ERA has soared to the 2.40 range.

I do agree with you on Bruce, though.


I agree. Stupidity has hit new levels in this thread. It's up there with like "hmm, I wonder how close I can put my hand near the fan blade" and "wow, thats odd, this girl im taking home has an adam's apple."

Ghosts of 1990
07-10-2008, 08:36 AM
right. :rolleyes:

Perfect example of a blind reds fan that obviously doesnt know the game.

Bruce in the last 17 games. And it probably gets worse than this if you go back a little further.

12-65 AVG .185
27 strikeouts
only 3 yes 3walks


I know the game Willy. I played it. You're way out of line here.

I think the game we're talking about is baseball, no? Well guess what.... slumps occur. Did you expect him to hit .400 all season? If you know the game you're smarter than that. A season is comprised of highs and lows, thus giving us what we call an average for the final compilation... where batting 'average' is derived from.

If Bruce finished the year above .280, and I've said it all along, its a success. He'll be fine. The ability is there. It hasn't been long since he had a two homer game.

If you are SCOUTING him and not STATTING him (which you have done), you'd realize he's made a TON of hard outs. That indicates, despite the K's that his average is a 'tendency to rise average'.

Bottom line is all players, especially 21 year olds, go through slumps. This isn't his first slump and it won't be his last. Get over it. You're wrong Willy.

laxtonto
07-10-2008, 10:31 AM
Ive always been in the boat of tapping the breaks with Volquez a little. EV has pitch very wel, but he has also pitched aginst a semi weak schedual...

Each of his starts and their league OPS ranking
Phil-tied 4th
Pitt-16th
Cubs- tied 2nd
Dodgers- 26th
SF Giants- 23rd
Braves- 14th
Cubs- tied 2nd
Mil- 8th
Indians-22nd
Padres-27th
Padres-27th
Braves-14th
Pirates-16th
Mil- 8th
Red Sox- 1st
Yankess- 10th
Blue Jays-21st
Pirates-16th
Nationales-30th

4 games aginst top 10, 7 gameg aginst the bottom 10. 6 games aginst the top 15 and 13 aginst the bottom 15. Let him pitch a full year first before annioting him the savior fo the frachise. He is a great pitcher, i would like to reserve judgement till he starts facing average to above average lineups on a regular basis.

bgwilly31
07-10-2008, 11:20 AM
B. Phillips in his last 19 Games has 3 walks.
J. Hairston in his last 19 has 5 walks.
E. Encarnacion in his last 19 has 6 walks.
J. Votto in his last 19 has 8 walks.

No one on this team aside from Dunn is both getting on base and producing power numbers at a good rate, and we're complaining about the 21 year old in his rookie season who only has 166 PA's? He'll learn, there will be hick ups and probably enough of them for us to doubt his talent/potential, but he'll learn.

Difference is B.phillips has been hot. So has hairston, and votto has more than double the walks.

Out of those guys bruce is the worst. He's supposed to be bruce almighty right?


This is honestly some of the most ridiculous stuff that I've ever read on this board.

Edinson Volquez is "struggling" because he is not routinely carrying 1-2 hitters through 7 innings against Major League offenses?

Seriously?

Just because he didn't completely obliterate the Nationals doesn't mean that he's "slumping." If 6 IP and 3 ER is your definition of "slumping," thank God Edinson Volquez is a Red.

I do agree with you on Bruce, though.

Than you havent read much on this board.

You obviously cant comprehend very well either. I never said i expect 2 hitters and sub 2era out of him for the season. But against a team like the nationals i would expect something close. Sure everybody has bad games. But this one happen to be his third in a row. How many in a row does it take for everybody to start thinking something different?
5?
10?
He had an avg. game. But his first 3 innings were terrible. He pitched avg his last 3 which was good enough to shut out the nationals after that. I dont chalk that up as a good game. Neither does the people that get paid to follow the game.




I agree. Stupidity has hit new levels in this thread. It's up there with like "hmm, I wonder how close I can put my hand near the fan blade" and "wow, thats odd, this girl im taking home has an adam's apple."

Nice comment. Im sure it took a very high IQ to think up a meaningful response like that.


I know the game Willy. I played it. You're way out of line here.

I think the game we're talking about is baseball, no? Well guess what.... slumps occur. Did you expect him to hit .400 all season? If you know the game you're smarter than that. A season is comprised of highs and lows, thus giving us what we call an average for the final compilation... where batting 'average' is derived from.

If Bruce finished the year above .280, and I've said it all along, its a success. He'll be fine. The ability is there. It hasn't been long since he had a two homer game.

If you are SCOUTING him and not STATTING him (which you have done), you'd realize he's made a TON of hard outs. That indicates, despite the K's that his average is a 'tendency to rise average'.

Bottom line is all players, especially 21 year olds, go through slumps. This isn't his first slump and it won't be his last. Get over it. You're wrong Willy.

I do know the game. I also know how to read and comprehend what people are saying.

Go quote me where you thought i said i expect him to bat over .400. Or where i said batting .280 isnt good enough.

Go ahead.

While your doing that i also say this. Im not so much stating him. My main point that makes me so ticked off watching the guy is the fact that he does the stupidest things at the plate. Complete 180 from what he did when he was hitting great. Basically comes down to being more patient. And hes the complete opposite up there right now. Patience is something you decide before you ever get up to the plate. It has nothing to do with a slump. Its how your being coached and your own mindset. I would rather see him strike out looking then swinging at balls bouncing off the ground and at your eyes.
He needs to make adjustments but hes not.



IM NOT BLAMING BRUCE OR VOLQUEZ FOR THE REDS LOSING WAYS> they are only a very small part of the problem.
But they are very important pieces of this team.


Ive always been in the boat of tapping the breaks with Volquez a little. EV has pitch very wel, but he has also pitched aginst a semi weak schedual...

Each of his starts and their league OPS ranking
Phil-tied 4th
Pitt-16th
Cubs- tied 2nd
Dodgers- 26th
SF Giants- 23rd
Braves- 14th
Cubs- tied 2nd
Mil- 8th
Indians-22nd
Padres-27th
Padres-27th
Braves-14th
Pirates-16th
Mil- 8th
Red Sox- 1st
Yankess- 10th
Blue Jays-21st
Pirates-16th
Nationales-30th

4 games aginst top 10, 7 gameg aginst the bottom 10. 6 games aginst the top 15 and 13 aginst the bottom 15. Let him pitch a full year first before annioting him the savior fo the frachise. He is a great pitcher, i would like to reserve judgement till he starts facing average to above average lineups on a regular basis.

Im not so sure all that matters to me. But great post.

As dominating as he has been, aside from these last 3 games, it doesnt matter so much who he has faced.

But i definitely agree with what your saying.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-10-2008, 02:22 PM
Out of those guys bruce is the worst. He's supposed to be bruce almighty right?



He had an avg. game. But his first 3 innings were terrible. He pitched avg his last 3 which was good enough to shut out the nationals after that. I dont chalk that up as a good game. Neither does the people that get paid to follow the game.


Nice comment. Im sure it took a very high IQ to think up a meaningful response like that.





I'm sure it takes a high IQ to bash a guy who's only 21 and one of the top prospects in baseball, because he's not batting over .300 anymore; and also nitpicking about the league leader in ERA having a "bad" game of 6 IP and 3ER's or whatever, just because he played the Nationals. Last I checked, Cliff Lee got rocked by us, and he's still kicking the AL's ass, and we're horrible.

Complaining about A GAME is ridiculous. Ok bub, you go ahead and find the career Ron Villone guy who might have a great all time record versus Washington/Montreal or a certain team, and a career 5 ERA and praise him for his work versus the Nats. I'll take the guy with the league leading ERA who is likely going to be the All Star starting pitcher.

bgwilly31
07-10-2008, 05:29 PM
I'm sure it takes a high IQ to bash a guy who's only 21 and one of the top prospects in baseball, because he's not batting over .300 anymore; and also nitpicking about the league leader in ERA having a "bad" game of 6 IP and 3ER's or whatever, just because he played the Nationals. Last I checked, Cliff Lee got rocked by us, and he's still kicking the AL's ass, and we're horrible.

Complaining about A GAME is ridiculous. Ok bub, you go ahead and find the career Ron Villone guy who might have a great all time record versus Washington/Montreal or a certain team, and a career 5 ERA and praise him for his work versus the Nats. I'll take the guy with the league leading ERA who is likely going to be the All Star starting pitcher.

OK bub.? hahah get real.

Once again comprehend peoples posts.

Im tired of repeating myself and as a matter of fact im not going to.

Not complaining about bruce batting under .300. Go back and read please.

Not complaining about just ONE game with volquez. Go back and read. :rolleyes:

Lockdwn11
07-10-2008, 05:41 PM
Josh Hamilton's stats over the last month.

G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS

27 119 103 14 28 4 0 3 21 13 1 20 1 0 2 2 2 0 .272 .353 .398 .751

keeganbrick
07-10-2008, 05:41 PM
:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse

Lockdwn11
07-10-2008, 05:48 PM
Volquez's stats over the last month that includes his game in 5 runs in 4 1/3 at Tor.

W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA BF HBP WP BK Pit Str GmSc BA OBP SLG OPS IR IS 2B 3B SB CS

4 1 7 7 0 0 0 0 42.2 37 21 18 18 33 1 3.80 184 4 5 1 704 413 53 .233 .324 .308 .632 7 1 3 3

As you can see he was still 4-1 on a bad team

Lockdwn11
07-10-2008, 06:09 PM
But nice way of twisting someones words.
Nobody said his era should be under 2 for his career either.My point is from these last 3 starts. He might be on the same path as Bruce right now. Falling from the clouds. Lets hope not.


Ok here is some stats from a three game stretch of another MLB pitcher see if you can guess who it is.

W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA BF HBP WP BK Pit Str GmSc BA OBP SLG OPS IR IS 2B 3B SB CS

1 2 3 3 0 0 0 0 16.1 22 14 13 9 15 2 7.16 78 2 2 0 293 182 39 .344 .429 .531 .960 6 0 3 1


If you guessed the National league STARTER in the ALL-STAR game Brandon Webb you are a WINNER!!!!

bgwilly31
07-10-2008, 06:40 PM
All three of your posts dont mean a thing to me.

Were not so much talking about stats but reading a player.

Anybody can sit down and read stats and feel smart. To understand what im talking about you have to sit down and be able to comprehend a baseball game.


Josh Hamilton's stats over the last month.

G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS

27 119 103 14 28 4 0 3 21 13 1 20 1 0 2 2 2 0 .272 .353 .398 .751


Volquez's stats over the last month that includes his game in 5 runs in 4 1/3 at Tor.

W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA BF HBP WP BK Pit Str GmSc BA OBP SLG OPS IR IS 2B 3B SB CS

4 1 7 7 0 0 0 0 42.2 37 21 18 18 33 1 3.80 184 4 5 1 704 413 53 .233 .324 .308 .632 7 1 3 3

As you can see he was still 4-1 on a bad team


Ok here is some stats from a three game stretch of another MLB pitcher see if you can guess who it is.

W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA BF HBP WP BK Pit Str GmSc BA OBP SLG OPS IR IS 2B 3B SB CS

1 2 3 3 0 0 0 0 16.1 22 14 13 9 15 2 7.16 78 2 2 0 293 182 39 .344 .429 .531 .960 6 0 3 1

If you guessed the National league STARTER in the ALL-STAR game Brandon Webb you are a WINNER!!!!


:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse

r u the horse?

Lockdwn11
07-10-2008, 06:45 PM
WOW!!!!! Whatever you say buddy.

schmidty622
07-10-2008, 06:51 PM
All three of your posts dont mean a thing to me.

Were not so much talking about stats but reading a player.

Anybody can sit down and read stats and feel smart. To understand what im talking about you have to sit down and be able to comprehend a baseball game.

r u the horse?


Man somebody really wants to get promoted to the ORG. Thats about as condescending as it gets, which is pretty much par for the course up there.

Lockdwn11
07-10-2008, 08:07 PM
BG,I was unaware you was a pro scout who doesn't need or understand stats but without stats there is no way to know who is or isn't struggling. So if your not using stats what are you going off of to say Volquez and Bruce are struggling ? Performance/watching games?

At the end of each game/performance (we all watch) we are left with these things called "stats" so we can determine things like who pitched well,who hit well and who won or lost the game. (Crazy I Know but bare with me)I think if you looked into this wonderful thing some in the baseball world call "stats" (wins/losses ect.) you may better understand the game of baseball I mean come on man its not like I got all saber-metric on you. I am well aware that stats don't tell the whole story but it is the best/easy way to tell a thing as simple as if someone is hitting or pitching well. You can watch every Reds game you want( as do I) but if thier not keeping stats ...the games mean NOTHING. The stats I put up only says three things.

1. Hamilton hasn't been that great over the last month
2. As bad as you seem to think Volquez has been he is 4-1 on a bad team over the last month.
3. You talked about Volquez last three start so I went and looked up a three game stretch of the starting NL pitcher in this years All-Star game and he had one worse than Volquez but the all-star coaches don't seem to worried about it.

Whats that tell you?

Blue
07-10-2008, 08:46 PM
Hamilton's RBI total is incredible right now. His OPS, however, is .911, closer to Adam Dunn (.905 OPS, on pace for 94 RBIs) than Albert Pujols (1.079 OPS, on pace for 85 RBIs, missed a few games with injury). I don't think Hamilton will be able to maintain anything close to that RBI level going forward if his OPS remains around .911 .

Volquez has a .606 OPSA, which compares favorably to Tim Lincecum (.652), Carlos Zambrano (.655), and Brandon Webb (.634). Some might call his first half a flash in the pan, and it may be, but if he puts up the same OPSA numbers in the second half, he's more likely to maintain his 2.36 ERA than Hamilton is his 157 RBI pace.

Basically, Hamilton's bat this season is not as good as his RBI total indicates, but Volquez's arm has been as good as his ERA indicates.

dsmith421
07-10-2008, 10:07 PM
Anybody can sit down and read stats and feel smart. To understand what im talking about you have to sit down and be able to comprehend a baseball game.

Ah, fair enough.

Please educate us further.

Ghosts of 1990
07-10-2008, 10:14 PM
Jay is 2 for his last 2. He's back

bgwilly31
07-11-2008, 12:00 PM
BG,I was unaware you was a pro scout who doesn't need or understand stats but without stats there is no way to know who is or isn't struggling. So if your not using stats what are you going off of to say Volquez and Bruce are struggling ? Performance/watching games?

At the end of each game/performance (we all watch) we are left with these things called "stats" so we can determine things like who pitched well,who hit well and who won or lost the game. (Crazy I Know but bare with me)I think if you looked into this wonderful thing some in the baseball world call "stats" (wins/losses ect.) you may better understand the game of baseball I mean come on man its not like I got all saber-metric on you. I am well aware that stats don't tell the whole story but it is the best/easy way to tell a thing as simple as if someone is hitting or pitching well. You can watch every Reds game you want( as do I) but if thier not keeping stats ...the games mean NOTHING. The stats I put up only says three things.

1. Hamilton hasn't been that great over the last month
2. As bad as you seem to think Volquez has been he is 4-1 on a bad team over the last month.
3. You talked about Volquez last three start so I went and looked up a three game stretch of the starting NL pitcher in this years All-Star game and he had one worse than Volquez but the all-star coaches don't seem to worried about it.

Whats that tell you?

Once again.

Nobody cares about how hamilton is doing. Not once hve i mentioned him so you bringing him up makes no sense.

Nobody cares about volquez LAST MONTH stats. I commented on his LAST 3 STARTS.
In which, since you must talk so much about stats, because apparently you are unable to just watch a game and be able to tell if a player did well or not. Apparently you need stats or you have no idea what the heck is going on.
Volquez went 1-1
IP-15.2
18 Hits
11 ER
9 walks
1hr
only 6 strike outs


yeah sounds pretty avg.:rolleyes:

Sounds like over his last three starts his been throwing pretty well ehhh. :rolleyes:

See you understand now. That was the first time i went and looked up those stats. I didnt need those stats to tell you he's been struggling over his last three starts. I knew because i understand how to watch a baseball game. Something you should try to learn sometime from somebody who also knows how to watch a baseball game.

Ghosts of 1990
07-11-2008, 12:30 PM
bgwilly. relax man.

bruce and volquez are going to be very good major leaguers at worst.

bgwilly31
07-11-2008, 04:03 PM
bgwilly. relax man.

bruce and volquez are going to be very good major leaguers at worst.


Im always relaxed:)

Lets hope so. Because its what were stuck with regardless.

Lockdwn11
07-11-2008, 06:45 PM
Once again.

Nobody cares about how hamilton is doing. Not once hve i mentioned him so you bringing him up makes no sense.

Nobody cares about volquez LAST MONTH stats. I commented on his LAST 3 STARTS.
In which, since you must talk so much about stats, because apparently you are unable to just watch a game and be able to tell if a player did well or not. Apparently you need stats or you have no idea what the heck is going on.
Volquez went 1-1
IP-15.2
18 Hits
11 ER
9 walks
1hr
only 6 strike outs


yeah sounds pretty avg.:rolleyes:

Sounds like over his last three starts his been throwing pretty well ehhh. :rolleyes:

See you understand now. That was the first time i went and looked up those stats. I didnt need those stats to tell you he's been struggling over his last three starts. I knew because i understand how to watch a baseball game. Something you should try to learn sometime from somebody who also knows how to watch a baseball game.

I watch every Reds game and if you knew anything about me you would already know that.You speak about Volquez and his last three starts and how bad they were but his start against the nationals was pretty good save one inning.The ump had a very small strike zone in that game. Did you watch that game BG? I bet you didn't because if you did you should have known that. I just think you are overstating his struggles. As far as not mentioning Hamilton see your thread title and your first post.