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View Full Version : Resting Burton or Showcasing Weathers?



Griffey012
07-12-2008, 10:43 PM
It seems funny that Burton is resting again in a close game that is also a big game if we are going to make some sort of playoff push. I get the feeling they are showcasing Weathers against a team that definitely needs some bullpen help. Or maybe they are just giving Burton extra rest.

captainmorgan07
07-12-2008, 10:50 PM
I'd say it's alil bit of both. Burton needs the rest after how much he's been used as of late. Also with the 2 good innings Weathers has had the last 2 nights he's become very valuable trade bait.

Mutaman
07-12-2008, 10:57 PM
After using Burton as his setup man all year with great results, it makes absolutely no sense that all of a sudden Dusty would go to Weathers. And the speculation of Thom Brenneman and Welsch that Dusty was resting Burton was just that, speculation. Of course these two clowns are too busy talking about college football and food to actually do a little work and find out what's really going on.

HeatherC1212
07-12-2008, 11:00 PM
I agree. I think it's a little of both. Stormy does seem to pitch better on the road though so I have no problem with him coming in two nights in a row this weekend. Stormy seems to go through rough patches anytime he pitches at GABP for whatever reason. Burton getting some time off before the AS break isn't the worst thing in the world to keep him fresh for the second half of the season.

And can I just say thank goodness we don't have a Gagne in the pen this year. Holy cow! :eek:

Griffey012
07-12-2008, 11:03 PM
After watching Gagne give up 2 jacks and a few more hits, and Mota come in a give up a hit it is all clear now. The Brewers are probably going to be begging for Stormy.

Griffey012
07-12-2008, 11:06 PM
After using Burton as his setup man all year with great results, it makes absolutely no sense that all of a sudden Dusty would go to Weathers. And the speculation of Thom Brenneman and Welsch that Dusty was resting Burton was just that, speculation. Of course these two clowns are too busy talking about college football and food to actually do a little work and find out what's really going on.

Is there anything these 2 can't turn negative goodness. They are now harping about how Weathers gets some unnecessary slack from Reds' fans. I think most of the came because of his performance before he went on the DL for a bit. Afterwards he has been his same old self with the exception of 1 or 2 outings.

My question is what would these two find negative if we made the playoffs somehow?

RedsFanInBama
07-12-2008, 11:25 PM
I don't know what the purpose was, but it worked out great tonight. I do think that getting Burton some rest heading into the break is a good thing. He's thrown a good bit lately (meaning through the last home stand). This time off will be good for him finishing out the year.

Plus Weathers is doing a good job recently. Anything that increases his value to other teams is good with me.

gedred69
07-12-2008, 11:58 PM
For a team desperate for bull pen help, putting Weathers on the market at this juncture would be a really smart move on the Reds part. This is probably his last year here anyway, and if some other team in the hunt panics and gives up some bona fide prospect for him, I'd say to WJ, "well done".

All things considered, over the last few years, the Reds would have been a lot worse off without Weathers. He has given it everything and willingly morphed into whatever role he was needed to fill, long relief, set-up, closer, back to set-up.

Jack Burton
07-13-2008, 12:02 AM
To get anything for Stormy would be gold, move him asap.

dthomas24
07-13-2008, 12:15 AM
I don't know if you noticed Chris Welch during last night's game (the 1st against the Brew Crew). He was questioning Dusty's move to not put in Burton. They put up Burton's pitches throughout the past week and Welch said he's been used but didn't think it was overdone at all and could of come into the game.

Then tonight Thom B. made the comment that Burton has been used a ton over the past week and it was a good idea to let him rest.

My first thought last night was Weathers was being showcased. And I'm pretty sure Burton is going to get 3 days in a row off (I think they call it an All-Star break?!?!?!?;)

Griffey012
07-13-2008, 12:39 AM
I personally was fine with Burton getting last night off, there 20+ pitches the game before, but felt it was fine using him tonight. However at this point I could care less, because when you win everything is good.

ChatterRed
07-13-2008, 02:32 AM
I have not been a Weathers fan. But I have to admit that his ability to get people out with a sub-90's fastball absolutely amazes me at times. I don't know how he does it. I guess it's veteran smarts.

Honestly at this point, I'd love to re-sign all of our bullpen. They are money for the most part. I'd love to have Affeldt back. Anyone see him hitting 97 on the radar gun tonight? Unreal.

I actually see this team starting to turn a corner. The next two weeks will be berry, berry interesting.

RedsFanInBama
07-13-2008, 10:56 AM
Chatter, I agree with you on our bullpen (for the most part). I would like to see Cordero, Burton, Bray, Lincoln and Affeldt all come back.

Weathers is simply old. I can go either way on him but with his role diminished for the most part, I'm ok with him being on the team. If you can get something for him, I think you do it. Majewski needs to go. He's just sorry. You can replace his arm with Roenicke.

ChatterRed
07-13-2008, 11:06 AM
Chatter, I agree with you on our bullpen (for the most part). I would like to see Cordero, Burton, Bray, Lincoln and Affeldt all come back.

Weathers is simply old. I can go either way on him but with his role diminished for the most part, I'm ok with him being on the team. If you can get something for him, I think you do it. Majewski needs to go. He's just sorry. You can replace his arm with Roenicke.

Yeah, I agree. Majewski needs to go.

Cordero, Burton, Bray, Lincoln, and Affeldt would be a very solid bullpen, considering the way those guys have pitched of late. I think Lincoln is finally starting to put it together. Bray and Burton, for the most part, have been money (sub 3.00 e.r.a.'s). Cordero has been solid. Affeldt is needed against lefties. Plus that 97 mph fastball he has is tough. I wish we could keep those 5 guys, let Weathers walk, bring up Herrera and Roenicke to see what they got.

Then you have Fogg giving two good straight outings. It's kinda weird right now. Things are happening the opposite of what you would think.

I wish it would continue today and CC would have a bad outing and Homer would surprise!

FlightRick
07-13-2008, 12:18 PM
After watching Gagne give up 2 jacks and a few more hits, and Mota come in a give up a hit it is all clear now. The Brewers are probably going to be begging for Stormy.

We should be so lucky, but even with getting an up close and personal look at the magic of Dave Weathers the past two nights, I can't imagine the Brewers being that desperate.

It's too bad, too; I'll probably get lambasted for this, but taking Mike Cameron off their hands (corresponding roster move: DFA Patterson) would go a long way to helping out the Redlegs, especially against LHP. And the fact that he has an option for 2009 would go a long way towards giving us a little insurance or a "bridge" as we try to figure out what to do post-Griffey-and-Dunn (or post-Griffey-still-with-Dunn, but-after Hairston-comes-back-to-earth-and-becomes-a-bench-player).

I wonder: would Weathers/Freel/PitchingProspect get our foot in the door, talking about Cameron? Freel's getting healthy, and should be back before the deadline; I bet Milwaukee fans would love his scrappiness, too (and I bet the Miller Brewery would love Freel and Farney's Heroic Consumption). Bill Hall's played plenty of CF in the past (and the Brewers also would have more ABs for Branyan and Kapler, who are both OPSing over .850 this year), too. Money-wise Weathers and Freel vs. Cameron is a push for this year (and for 2009, Freel's due $4m vs. I think $9m for Cameron, which is a difference I'm willing to pay, and a difference the Brewers might look at as useful).

Eh, never happen. Still: with all the prosyltizing going on about "buying vs. selling" and "the fools gold of 2006 leading to institutional mediocrity" and "win now vs. blow it up," I view the Reds assets (Weathers, et al) as being the type that can only be a part of deals like this, that don't really have a whole lot of impact, either way. We're not dumb enough to compromise our young core for true "win now" players, and our aging, pricey vets will only net us other teams' aging, pricey vets (not top tier prospects who'll be All Stars in 2011). And I'm open to those deals if they make sense, and open to front office lethargy if they don't; I just don't get all the arguing over the NEED TO TRADE NOW~!, when the truth is that the types of trades the two sides are arguing about have nothing to do with any sort of trade that might actually occur.

That said: I'm not suggesting Milwaukee is dumb enough to do as I propose with this deal, I'm just saying that this would be a deal within the realm of what the Reds could hope to get with the players they'd be willing to move. Weathers can be a part of a deal where we'd get an older, expensive RH bat (which we need), or otherwise will net the proverbial "bag of balls" (be it Pile O. Cash or other D-grade prospect). Same with most of our other rumored-to-be-expendable parts, except maybe Dunn (who I'd be inclined to keep unless somebody really blew me away with an offer).



Rick

ChatterRed
07-13-2008, 12:28 PM
We should be so lucky, but even with getting an up close and personal look at the magic of Dave Weathers the past two nights, I can't imagine the Brewers being that desperate.

It's too bad, too; I'll probably get lambasted for this, but taking Mike Cameron off their hands (corresponding roster move: DFA Patterson) would go a long way to helping out the Redlegs, especially against LHP. And the fact that he has an option for 2009 would go a long way towards giving us a little insurance or a "bridge" as we try to figure out what to do post-Griffey-and-Dunn (or post-Griffey-still-with-Dunn, but-after Hairston-comes-back-to-earth-and-becomes-a-bench-player).

I wonder: would Weathers/Freel/PitchingProspect get our foot in the door, talking about Cameron? Freel's getting healthy, and should be back before the deadline; I bet Milwaukee fans would love his scrappiness, too (and I bet the Miller Brewery would love Freel and Farney's Heroic Consumption). Bill Hall's played plenty of CF in the past (and the Brewers also would have more ABs for Branyan and Kapler, who are both OPSing over .850 this year), too. Money-wise Weathers and Freel vs. Cameron is a push for this year (and for 2009, Freel's due $4m vs. I think $9m for Cameron, which is a difference I'm willing to pay, and a difference the Brewers might look at as useful).

Eh, never happen. Still: with all the prosyltizing going on about "buying vs. selling" and "the fools gold of 2006 leading to institutional mediocrity" and "win now vs. blow it up," I view the Reds assets (Weathers, et al) as being the type that can only be a part of deals like this, that don't really have a whole lot of impact, either way. We're not dumb enough to compromise our young core for true "win now" players, and our aging, pricey vets will only net us other teams' aging, pricey vets (not top tier prospects who'll be All Stars in 2011). And I'm open to those deals if they make sense, and open to front office lethargy if they don't; I just don't get all the arguing over the NEED TO TRADE NOW~!, when the truth is that the types of trades the two sides are arguing about have nothing to do with any sort of trade that might actually occur.

That said: I'm not suggesting Milwaukee is dumb enough to do as I propose with this deal, I'm just saying that this would be a deal within the realm of what the Reds could hope to get with the players they'd be willing to move. Weathers can be a part of a deal where we'd get an older, expensive RH bat (which we need), or otherwise will net the proverbial "bag of balls" (be it Pile O. Cash or other D-grade prospect). Same with most of our other rumored-to-be-expendable parts, except maybe Dunn (who I'd be inclined to keep unless somebody really blew me away with an offer).



Rick

Good post. Good thoughts.

Griffey012
07-13-2008, 12:37 PM
I actually see this team starting to turn a corner. The next two weeks will be berry, berry interesting.

Don't say that. Everytime we thing that they lose a couple games in a row.

schmidty622
07-13-2008, 01:42 PM
I have no problem what so ever in trading away, Weathers, Lincoln, Affeldt, or Majewski. The Reds have a bunch of quality relievers that are just sitting there in the minors. If they can get something for Weathers and that sparks a Roenicke call up I'd be all for it. Roenicke, Herrera, Stewart, Manuel, Fisher, Geronimo, and all of the other plus arms that we have in the minors make these older guys expendable. We could even use the bullpen as a staging area for some of our starters, although they have been against doing this in the past.

I say get what they can for the old guys and go young, especially in the pen.

akron3344
07-13-2008, 02:06 PM
I hope they can find somebody to take weathers