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Benihana
07-12-2008, 10:30 PM
Do any Reds make the list?

Would someone mind PMing the list to me? Thanks in advance.

New Fever
07-12-2008, 10:32 PM
No Reds made the list, but Valakia and Thompson made the players who will be in consideration for the Postseason Top 100 list.

Grande Donkey
07-12-2008, 10:33 PM
Is Homer no longer eligible?

New Fever
07-12-2008, 10:34 PM
Homer is no longer eligible.

Benihana
07-12-2008, 10:35 PM
Valakia and Thompson made the players who will be in consideration for the Postseason Top 100 list.

but no Frazier? Hmmm...

New Fever
07-12-2008, 10:38 PM
but no Frazier? Hmmm...

Only 30 players on the list Valakia and Thompson made.

Benihana
07-12-2008, 10:52 PM
Only 30 players on the list Valakia and Thompson made.

Nevertheless, interesting Valaika makes it over Frazier, whom most on this board feel is a much better prospect.

Blitz Dorsey
07-12-2008, 11:19 PM
IMO it's probably because Valaika actually has a chance of playing SS in the Majors (especially for the Reds) while Frazier is a 3B/LF and is currently at a level lower than Valaika. I can see how Valaika looks like a better prospect in the eyes of a baseball journalist. Plus, they are probably giving the Futures Game a lot of weight.

gedred69
07-12-2008, 11:45 PM
It's always said that AA is the tape measure. If a player performs well enough to be AA, he's good enough to make the Majors, if he's got it upstairs. Valaika has done better than decent since being promoted to AA, and he is a credible SS at least. Frazier might be a better bat in the end, but he's looking for a position. How many has he played at Sarasota?

mth123
07-13-2008, 08:52 AM
A List (Core players - Front 3 in the rotation pitchers, Middle of the order hitters, Back of the bullpen inning guys)

1. Frazier
2. Alonso
3. Bailey
4. Roenicke
5. Lotzkar
6. Soto

B List (Role playing Regulars who lead-off or hit 7th or 8th, good bench players in the 4th OF or supersub mold, platoon assets, 4th Starters, Solid 7th inning Relief guys)

7. Thompson
8. Cumberland
9. Stewart
10. Mesoraco
11. Valaika
12. Maloney
13. Henry
14. Jukich
15. Lecure
16. Dorn
17. Stubbs (Moving up on my list. Could be in top 10 if he can .800 OPS at Chatt for half a season)

C List (5th Starters/swingmen, Utility IF, 11th or 12th man on the staff types, LOOGYs, 5th OF, Back-up catchers, PH with no position)

18. Wood
19. Hildenbrandt
20. Eymann
21. Ravin
22. Horst
23. Gutierrez
24. Geronimo
25. Manual
26. Waring
27. Fisher
28. Rosales
29. Herrera
30. Francisco
31. Cozart
32. Valiquette
33. Turner
34. Viola
35. J. Smith
36. Watson
37. Krebs
38. Smit
39. Young
40. Dickerson

Still a decent system. A few guys who didn't make the top 40 that may also qualify as "C" guys: Janish, McBeth, Ramirez, Lutz, Medina, Hanigan, Tatum, Pelland, Tabor, Heisey, Carroll, J. Reed, K. Jones, Castro, Montano, Klinker, Long.

I didn't consider other 2008 draftees or Juan Duran and the other international kids. Just not enough info for me.

crazyredfan40
07-13-2008, 09:45 AM
This is an interesting way of looking at it...

It also shows just how much depth we have in our system...


I would move Thompson up a level...


A List (Core players - Front 3 in the rotation pitchers, Middle of the order hitters, Back of the bullpen inning guys)

1. Frazier
2. Alonso
3. Bailey
4. Roenicke
5. Lotzkar
6. Soto

B List (Role playing Regulars who lead-off or hit 7th or 8th, good bench players in the 4th OF or supersub mold, platoon assets, 4th Starters, Solid 7th inning Relief guys)

7. Thompson
8. Cumberland
9. Stewart
10. Mesoraco
11. Valaika
12. Maloney
13. Henry
14. Jukich
15. Lecure
16. Dorn
17. Stubbs (Moving up on my list. Could be in top 10 if he can .800 OPS at Chatt for half a season)

C List (5th Starters/swingmen, Utility IF, 11th or 12th man on the staff types, LOOGYs, 5th OF, Back-up catchers, PH with no position)

18. Wood
19. Hildenbrandt
20. Eymann
21. Ravin
22. Horst
23. Gutierrez
24. Geronimo
25. Manual
26. Waring
27. Fisher
28. Rosales
29. Herrera
30. Francisco
31. Cozart
32. Valiquette
33. Turner
34. Viola
35. J. Smith
36. Watson
37. Krebs
38. Smit
39. Young
40. Dickerson

Still a decent system. A few guys who didn't make the top 40 that may also qualify as "C" guys: Janish, McBeth, Ramirez, Lutz, Medina, Hanigan, Tatum, Pelland, Tabor, Heisey, Carroll, J. Reed, K. Jones, Castro, Montano, Klinker, Long.

I didn't consider other 2008 draftees or Juan Duran and the other international kids. Just not enough info for me.

dougdirt
07-13-2008, 12:20 PM
mth....
1. Bailey isn't a prospect anymore, thus shouldn't qualify for any prospect lists. Travis Wood at 18, really? Valaika and Stubbs outside of the top 10.... what?

camisadelgolf
07-13-2008, 12:55 PM
Sam LeCure (possibly not a top-25 prospect in the Reds organization) ahead of Drew Stubbs (#100 prospect in all of baseball according to Baseball America)?

But hey, that's what's great thing about these things--we all have our different opinions.

mth123
07-13-2008, 02:01 PM
mth....
1. Bailey isn't a prospect anymore, thus shouldn't qualify for any prospect lists. Travis Wood at 18, really? Valaika and Stubbs outside of the top 10.... what?

Not sure why Bailey isn't a prospect anymore. He certainly isn't an established player and is a guy for the future as opposed to the present (like Bruce, Votto and Cueto) or the past (like Belisle or Coffey). If not, then move everyone below 3 up a notch.

Valaika is a tweener IMO. I don't think he has the bat for the spots where his glove will play and I see him as a supersub type in the big leagues. His glove would get exposed day-in, day-out in the middle of the diamond and his bat would be exposed if he tried to hold down a corner spot each day.

As I said, Stubbs needs an .800+ OPS the rest of the way at Chatt and I'd probably move him up behind Soto. I want to see it first. I'm pretty sure that Dorn could be a platoon guy and that Cumberland and Henry have enough combination of offense and defense to be a fourth OF. Right now, I only have certainty of Stubbs as a 5th OF type who can run and play good defense. I moved him to the B group because of his promise, but he needs to do it first to pass the others IMO.

Wood is a faded prospect that has gotten rocked at AA. His slight build and small frame make me think he's a swingman at best or possibly a loogy. Jukich, Maloney, Lecure and Thompson have had more success and Lotzkar has the high ceiling.

dougdirt
07-13-2008, 02:12 PM
Not sure why Bailey isn't a prospect anymore. He certainly isn't an established player and is a guy for the future as opposed to the present (like Bruce, Votto and Cueto) or the past (like Belisle or Coffey). If not, then move everyone below 3 up a notch. If you have 50ip or 150 AB's in the majors, you are no longer considered a 'prospect'. Bailey has more than 50 ip.



Valaika is a tweener IMO. I don't think he has the bat for the spots where his glove will play and I see him as a supersub type in the big leagues. His glove would get exposed day-in, day-out in the middle of the diamond and his bat would be exposed if he tried to hold down a corner spot each day.
You don't think Valaika's bat will play at 2B or 3B? His glove is plenty fine for 2B.



As I said, Stubbs needs an .800+ OPS the rest of the way at Chatt and I'd probably move him up behind Soto. I want to see it first. I'm pretty sure that Dorn could be a platoon guy and that Cumberland and Henry have enough combination of offense and defense to be a fourth OF. Right now, I only have certainty of Stubbs as a 5th OF type who can run and play good defense. I moved him to the B group because of his promise, but he needs to do it first to pass the others IMO.
His defense alone makes him a 4th outfielder. I dunno, I just think its strange that if he boosts his OPS a whopping 25 points he somehow jumps 10 spots up the list.



Wood is a faded prospect that has gotten rocked at AA. His slight build and small frame make me think he's a swingman at best or possibly a loogy. Jukich, Maloney, Lecure and Thompson have had more success and Lotzkar has the high ceiling.

Wood is far from a 'faded prospect'. He has been pretty inconsistent in AA to this point (5 starts with 2 or fewer runs allowed, 4 starts with 5 or more runs) but faded prospect? He has good stuff and is a lefty. Yeah, his build is of some concern, but I think its pushing it to say he is a faded prospect. As for Jukich.... I really don't see him as being anything more than a Tom Shearn type of guy. I hope he does better, but thats who he reminds me of.

mth123
07-13-2008, 02:32 PM
If you have 50ip or 150 AB's in the majors, you are no longer considered a 'prospect'. Bailey has more than 50 ip..

OK if we're sticking to those rules, but in terms of adding talent to the major league team from the minor league system, he's still a very valuable prospect in my book.



You don't think Valaika's bat will play at 2B or 3B? His glove is plenty fine for 2B. I think his bat will play at 2B but not his glove. I think his glove could play at 3B, but his bat will be a little light.



His defense alone makes him a 4th outfielder. I dunno, I just think its strange that if he boosts his OPS a whopping 25 points he somehow jumps 10 spots up the list. HIs defense alone makes him Reggie Taylor, Corey Patterson or DeWayne Wise. He needs to hit with some frequency and a little pop or his abilty to walk will be useless to him. The fact that the improvement comes at AA in comparison to what he had been doing at lower levels jumps him that many spots.




Wood is far from a 'faded prospect'. He has been pretty inconsistent in AA to this point (5 starts with 2 or fewer runs allowed, 4 starts with 5 or more runs) but faded prospect? He has good stuff and is a lefty. Yeah, his build is of some concern, but I think its pushing it to say he is a faded prospect. As for Jukich.... I really don't see him as being anything more than a Tom Shearn type of guy. I hope he does better, but thats who he reminds me of.

Wood is on this list based on his 2006 season at Dayton. 2007 was bad and 2008 has been iffy. That is becoming fairly far removed from the present day. Combine that with the physical questions and its fairly iffy for me. If he gets it together I'll move him up. I think all the starters on the "B" list are flawed. Performance at AA or above trumps scouting reports and non-performance at those levels IMO.

dougdirt
07-13-2008, 02:48 PM
2007 he was injured for the most part. 2008 has been fine overall for Wood.

edabbs44
07-13-2008, 05:30 PM
Cincy seems to have passed over a bunch of those guys in the last 2 years.

dougdirt
07-13-2008, 05:43 PM
Cincy seems to have passed over a bunch of those guys in the last 2 years.

So has every other team.

edabbs44
07-13-2008, 05:53 PM
So has every other team.

Doesn't make me feel any better.

Other teams who passed on Porcello in the first round of 2007 got guys like Alderson or Laporta.

Teams who passed on Snider in the first rd of 2006 got guys like Lincecum or Scherzer.

Teams who passed on Brett Anderson in the 2nd rd of 2006 got guys like Tillman.

There are just so many guys who fall in these drafts that the Reds just flat out ignore. The Watson pick still boggles my mind to this day. Instead of chasing idiotic FAs like Corey Patterson, they need to just draft the BPA in every round. Guys like LaPorta, Fowler and Lars Anderson. Too many top rated players drop rounds because of bonus demands and the like. Boston took Laporta and Anderson in the 14th and 18th rounds in 2006. They aren't dumb.

Blitz Dorsey
07-13-2008, 10:37 PM
As for Jukich.... I really don't see him as being anything more than a Tom Shearn type of guy. I hope he does better, but thats who he reminds me of.

I disagree. For one, Jukich is a lefty. Two, Jukich is only 25 and will surely make the majors before he's 29. Jukich is currently 8-4 with a 3.60 ERA, 92 Ks in 116 IP at AA. That is considerably better than anything Shearn ever did in the minors, especially at that age. I see what you are saying that Jukich isn't a top prospect, more like a journeyman, but he's definitely way better than Tom Shearn IMO. Especially Tom Shearn five years ago.

kaldaniels
07-13-2008, 11:58 PM
Doug...

Don't get me wrong...I'm with you, but you generally seem to give guys the benefit of the doubt, i.e. you look at their glass as half full. I do as well, but you are much more schooled than I.

So, what Reds "prospects" if any, does the forum still pimp, but you may have "given up" on. Hope this question makes sense.

dougdirt
07-14-2008, 12:12 AM
I disagree. For one, Jukich is a lefty. Two, Jukich is only 25 and will surely make the majors before he's 29. Jukich is currently 8-4 with a 3.60 ERA, 92 Ks in 116 IP at AA. That is considerably better than anything Shearn ever did in the minors, especially at that age. I see what you are saying that Jukich isn't a top prospect, more like a journeyman, but he's definitely way better than Tom Shearn IMO. Especially Tom Shearn five years ago.

While I understand where you are coming from, I just see him as a type of guy who would have similar results as Shearn.

dougdirt
07-14-2008, 12:14 AM
Doug...

Don't get me wrong...I'm with you, but you generally seem to give guys the benefit of the doubt, i.e. you look at their glass as half full. I do as well, but you are much more schooled than I.

So, what Reds "prospects" if any, does the forum still pimp, but you may have "given up" on. Hope this question makes sense.

I don't think there is anyone that I have really given up on. I do think some guys get overrated by some posters (as I assume a lot think I overrated some guys).

New Fever
07-15-2008, 12:55 AM
Callis ranked the top prospect for each team, the #1 prospect for Cincinnati: TBA Todd Frazier.
Graduations have thinned out the Reds system; first-round 1B Yonder Alonso will rank No. 1 upon his signing.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...08/266517.html

crazyredfan40
07-15-2008, 09:21 AM
Callis ranked the top prospect for each team, the #1 prospect for Cincinnati: TBA Todd Frazier.
Graduations have thinned out the Reds system; first-round 1B Yonder Alonso will rank No. 1 upon his signing.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...08/266517.html

They might of thinned out the top-tier prospects, but there is probably even more depth this year then last year...

We graduated Homer, Votto, Bruce, Thompson...

But have guys from this draft, and others stepping up big like soto, Lotzkar, etc...

Not many have fallen off the map either...

dougdirt
07-15-2008, 01:54 PM
They might of thinned out the top-tier prospects, but there is probably even more depth this year then last year...

We graduated Homer, Votto, Bruce, Thompson...

But have guys from this draft, and others stepping up big like soto, Lotzkar, etc...

Not many have fallen off the map either...

Thompson hasn't graduated. WE have graduated Homer, Votto, Bruce and Cueto though.

crazyredfan40
07-15-2008, 06:56 PM
Thompson hasn't graduated. WE have graduated Homer, Votto, Bruce and Cueto though.

Meant to type Cueto, not Thompson...;)