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View Full Version : Did the Reds buy themselves more time?



redsfaninbsg
07-13-2008, 12:37 AM
3-3 at worst on the road against in my opinion the two best teams in the NL. I wouldn't give up yet, give them through the home stand after the break and see where they stand. If your somehow within 3-4 games of the wc I play it out.

WVRedsFan
07-13-2008, 12:50 AM
3-3 at worst on the road against in my opinion the two best teams in the NL. I wouldn't give up yet, give them through the home stand after the break and see where they stand. If your somehow within 3-4 games of the wc I play it out.

As much as I believe, down deep in my heart, that it's a pipe dream to believe we have any chance at the wild card, I think this makes sense.

fearofpopvol1
07-13-2008, 12:52 AM
Regardless of what ultimately ends up happening, it's great the Reds are playing better. It should (in theory) mean that for the Reds to sell, they should expect better offers since they are close(r) to contention.

Outside of that series with the Mets after the break, the Reds play a lot of mediocre teams to follow. I would definitely say there is no need to rush into being buyers or sellers just yet. See where the Reds (and the rest of the division) are in 2 weeks and make a decision then.

MasonBuzz3
07-13-2008, 12:56 AM
I know that I am probably drinking the annual Reds in contention kool aid, but if Harang can somehow come back to be what we expect....things could be very interesting for the Reds in the second half

flyer85
07-13-2008, 01:00 AM
From what we have seen/heard from RCast, I would say yes.

WVRedsFan
07-13-2008, 01:04 AM
The Reds are now 37-37 since Krivsky was let go.

*BaseClogger*
07-13-2008, 01:05 AM
This looks like a second half team to me... :)

toledodan
07-13-2008, 01:25 AM
Regardless of what ultimately ends up happening, it's great the Reds are playing better. It should (in theory) mean that for the Reds to sell, they should expect better offers since they are close(r) to contention.

Outside of that series with the Mets after the break, the Reds play a lot of mediocre teams to follow. I would definitely say there is no need to rush into being buyers or sellers just yet. See where the Reds (and the rest of the division) are in 2 weeks and make a decision then.



i agree 100% in not rushing to sell. we will know for sure in the next 2 weeks if this team has any chance at all. if they can win 3 or sweep the mets they may become buyers real quick. it looks like they could be no worse than 7 back in the WC at the break. a win on sunday and we have a shot at only being 5 out. considering we have gotten nothing out of harang this year its amazing to think we are that close.

Danny Serafini
07-13-2008, 01:27 AM
As odd as it sounds, the best thing that could've happened to this team was to get beat down during this road trip. Then they wouldn't have been deluded into thinking this team had a real shot to compete. Now I'm worried that they may actually think they're buyers instead of sellers, which could lead to the wrong sort of moves to help this club contend in the future.

redsfaninbsg
07-13-2008, 01:30 AM
Regardless of what happens tomorrow if the Reds go 7-3 on the 10 game home stand and don't try to make the WC I'll be one pissed off Reds fan.

toledodan
07-13-2008, 01:53 AM
Regardless of what happens tomorrow if the Reds go 7-3 on the 10 game home stand and don't try to make the WC I'll be one pissed off Reds fan.



you and me both. i'm tired of trying to build everything for a future that never gets here. if their in striking distance go for it. its been a long time since we had this much good pitching. i'm all about making the right moves but we must try if in the position to go for it.

Edskin
07-13-2008, 02:00 AM
As odd as it sounds, the best thing that could've happened to this team was to get beat down during this road trip. Then they wouldn't have been deluded into thinking this team had a real shot to compete. Now I'm worried that they may actually think they're buyers instead of sellers, which could lead to the wrong sort of moves to help this club contend in the future.

Nah. There is a youthful core already on this team and I'd prefer they get exposed to winning rather than "beatdowns."

Of course, I do NOT want us selling the farm to try to get help to make a run this year, but on the other hand, I see no real reason to rush into being "sellers" at this point either.

Let's just be totally honest here-- we aren't going to get franchise altering/impact prospects for guys like Weathers and Ross. Whatever we can get for them now, we'll still be able to get at the deadline. And it only makes sense to wait it out with the other guys.

And it's not JUST about THIS year. If the team shows signs that they could compete NEXT year at a fairly high level, then it would certainly sway my decision-making process on who we trade right now. If the Reds look like a team that can make a nice run in 2009, I'll be in much less of a hurry to trade a guy like Arroyo.

Wait it out...see what happens over the next few weeks. No harm in that.

redsfaninbsg
07-13-2008, 02:14 AM
Geez, the Reds play two series against teams with winning records from July 17 to August 15th. Including playing some just terrible teams.

3 against the Padres
3 against the Rockies
7 against the Astros
3 against the Nationals
3 against the Pirates
4 against the Mets
3 against the Brewers

The next 26 games give the Reds a chance to make a move. A reds loss tomorrow puts them 4 under, if they go 16-10 in those games (which is very reasonable) they are 2 over with a month and a half to go.

Phhhl
07-13-2008, 02:28 AM
I hope the Mets win tomorrow so they come in here with a 9 game winnings streak. That, in addition to the three day break, should increase the law of averages that we might post a good series against those guys.

*BaseClogger*
07-13-2008, 02:35 AM
I hope the Mets win tomorrow so they come in here with a 9 game winnings streak. That, in addition to the three day break, should increase the law of averages that we might post a good series against those guys.

Sarcasm? That's not how the "law of averages" (or logic, for that matter) works...

SMcGavin
07-13-2008, 03:02 AM
And it's not JUST about THIS year. If the team shows signs that they could compete NEXT year at a fairly high level, then it would certainly sway my decision-making process on who we trade right now. If the Reds look like a team that can make a nice run in 2009, I'll be in much less of a hurry to trade a guy like Arroyo.


Completely agree. I'm really glad the Reds have gone on this hot streak, so hopefully management realizes this team is not that far away. We aren't making the playoffs this year, but 2009 could happen. I would not be giving away guys like Arroyo. Or Ross for that matter.

CrackerJack
07-13-2008, 03:51 AM
I'm just not a fan of trading Arroyo, Ross, or Dunn, given the Reds' inability to replace any of them, if nothing else.

mth123
07-13-2008, 04:08 AM
I know playing it both ways is not a popular startegy, but this team is clearly in position to do a little selling without throwing up the white flag on 2008. Griffey, Ross, Freel if he can get back on the field, and maybe Weathers could be "sold" and the team may be better off with a Dunn, Hairston, Bruce OF the rest of the way, Roenicke in Weathers spot, maybe a youngish catcher who is some team's back-up back for Weathers (include a minor leaguer or two if need be), and with a vastly improved OF defense helping the entire pitching staff.

The issue is still another starting pitcher IMO. Going for it or not, the team should look to sell off Fogg now that he's pitched a couple decent outings in a row, but I'm not comfortable with any of the internal candidiates for the 5th spot in the rotation. Bailey and Thompson need more time, Maloney might be the man, but I don't think he's likely to be successful and I was never high on Bobby Livingston before he got hurt. Maybe they can get by riding the hot hand as long as they are quick enough to remove one from the rotation in favor of another as the worm starts to turn.

Caveat Emperor
07-13-2008, 06:53 AM
As odd as it sounds, the best thing that could've happened to this team was to get beat down during this road trip. Then they wouldn't have been deluded into thinking this team had a real shot to compete. Now I'm worried that they may actually think they're buyers instead of sellers, which could lead to the wrong sort of moves to help this club contend in the future.

OTOH -- as long as they're not rent-a-player shopping, I'm cool with Jocketty building this team with the idea of helping out next year as well.

redsmetz
07-13-2008, 08:32 AM
I'm not sure I've ever understood the all or nothing line of thought on buying or selling. I think the PTB have always intended to improve the club (and the organization) while trying to put a competitive club on the field at the ML level. I haven't read Fay's column this a.m. yet, but it's about the "Big Four" and their struggles. I assume he's talking about Griffey, Dunn, Harang, and Arroyo. If we can get improvement (and Dunn's showing it now) from those four, this could be an exciting season yet.

GAC
07-13-2008, 08:34 AM
3-3 at worst on the road against in my opinion the two best teams in the NL. I wouldn't give up yet, give them through the home stand after the break and see where they stand. If your somehow within 3-4 games of the wc I play it out.

I don't think this FO's attitude in possibly wanting to deal some players here in '08 is one of giving up. Nor should it be perceived that way by the fans.

It's about continually trying to improve this team that has some needs.


As odd as it sounds, the best thing that could've happened to this team was to get beat down during this road trip. Then they wouldn't have been deluded into thinking this team had a real shot to compete. Now I'm worried that they may actually think they're buyers instead of sellers, which could lead to the wrong sort of moves to help this club contend in the future.

Bingo Danny! Lets remember the "fools gold" of '06 when we finished around .500. And this is what worries me about Castellini.



The Reds are now 37-37 since Krivsky was let go.

So? I don't understand what your point is here because the roster/team we are seeing out on that field was still constructed by Wayne. We were continually reminded of that for over the last two months when we were playing miserably and flurting with being 10 games under .500. ;)

So it still Krivsky's team now that they have improved somewhat and playing .500 ball?

IMHO, we've only seen marginal improvement, and that is due to certain players performing better (Arroyo, Dunn, Cueto, EE),and also getting guys back from the DL, like Hairston and then Kepp.

joshnky
07-13-2008, 09:11 AM
3-3 at worst on the road against in my opinion the two best teams in the NL. I wouldn't give up yet, give them through the home stand after the break and see where they stand. If your somehow within 3-4 games of the wc I play it out.

I really feel like this team could be sellers and still finish the season strong. Of the potential trades (Weathers, Hairston, Griffey, Arroyo, Ross) the only one that will really hurt will be Hairston. Otherwise their are several prospects that should be able to fill those roles capably. However, if things change on the Dunn front and they deal him that would kill the season.

GAC
07-13-2008, 09:11 AM
Geez, the Reds play two series against teams with winning records from July 17 to August 15th. Including playing some just terrible teams.

Then we need to be worried because it's those "terrible" teams that are killing (and exposing) us...

we are....

3-6 vs Pirates
0-2 vs Astros
1-7 vs Dodgers
3-3 vs Braves
2-2 vs Padres

We've had our way with the Nats (4-0) and won our only series with the Giants (2-1). And we are 5-1 vs the AL Indians.

But overall, against sub .500 teams, we are 20-22.

mth123
07-13-2008, 10:00 AM
sorry

Highlifeman21
07-13-2008, 10:04 AM
The Reds need to jetison bad contracts (Arroyo, Freel immediately come to mind), and spend their money a little more wisely.

I'm of the opinion that you can be buyers and sellers at this point in the season. Get rid of the entities that are bad investments and acquire more sound investments for the future.

As for entertaining a run at the Wild Card for this year, well.... I think the Reds' chances of that are slim to none, and slim left town awhile ago....

KronoRed
07-13-2008, 01:26 PM
Bingo Danny! Lets remember the "fools gold" of '06 when we finished around .500. And this is what worries me about Castellini.


Yep, is the goal a team that wins 82 games or a team that can win it all?

redsfaninbsg
07-13-2008, 01:40 PM
When you've not made the playoffs in 13 seasons just making the playoffs would at least get the average baseball fan back interested in your franchise. I'm 21 years old and follow the Reds daily, the last time they made the playoffs I was 8 years old, maybe I'm just selfish but damn it I'd like to see them be competitive every once in a while.

RedlegJake
07-13-2008, 02:02 PM
Yep, is the goal a team that wins 82 games or a team that can win it all?

Dominant front line starting wins the whole shebang and the Reds have a 1-2 in Volquez and Cueto that can get there. Harang needs to be healthy because he is the third horse. The pen is getting better almost daily and the Reds have a stash of young bullpen arms that are the real bright spot of their minor league system - the pen should be able to keep pace. I look at it realistically as a 2010 project, maybe 2011. Anyone who doesn't fit in that timeline should be considered expendable for guys who fit that schedule. Freel, Patterson, Weathers, Lincoln, Hairston, Arroyo, Belisle, Bako, Valentin, Junior, AGon, Ross, Affeldt. I'm not saying dump them all outright but these are the guys that need to be moved between now and then. Some may be placeholders for another year or two (like Hairston in CF until Stubbs/Cumberland/Henry or Heisey arrive) but by 2010-2011 Volquez and Cueto should be dominating and entering prime years and that's when the Reds need to be ready.

That's not saying to just blow off 08 and 09 but become incrementally stronger each passing winter and each trade deadline until those prime years are reached. Any move the Reds make now should reflect that target - a World Series Title, not just competing.

RedsManRick
07-13-2008, 03:42 PM
All I can say is that I'm thrilled the Cubs and Brewers made big moves. We cannot afford a reprise of 2006. Nobody cares (well, should care) whether we win 76 or 86 games this year. Neither puts us in the playoffs. If being decent all year allows Jocketty to be more patient in making good moves for the future, that's great, but this year is gone.

mth123
07-13-2008, 04:39 PM
All I can say is that I'm thrilled the Cubs and Brewers made big moves. We cannot afford a reprise of 2006. Nobody cares (well, should care) whether we win 76 or 86 games this year. Neither puts us in the playoffs. If being decent all year allows Jocketty to be more patient in making good moves for the future, that's great, but this year is gone.

I care how many they win. Winning 86 games with a bunch of Aurilia, Clayton Hatteberg, Freel, Schoenweiss, Cormier vets is meaningless, but a winning season from a bunch of kids like Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Burton and Volquez is a critical step in the growing up process. Since Phillips, EdE, Kepp and even Dunn and Harang (still both just entering their prime years) haven't really experienced that, they should probably be included as well.

*BaseClogger*
07-13-2008, 05:10 PM
I know playing it both ways is not a popular startegy, but this team is clearly in position to do a little selling without throwing up the white flag on 2008. Griffey, Ross, Freel if he can get back on the field, and maybe Weathers could be "sold" and the team may be better off with a Dunn, Hairston, Bruce OF the rest of the way, Roenicke in Weathers spot, maybe a youngish catcher who is some team's back-up back for Weathers (include a minor leaguer or two if need be), and with a vastly improved OF defense helping the entire pitching staff.

this is what I'm thinking...

WebScorpion
07-15-2008, 12:12 PM
I think the only thing they've demonstrated is that they can beat the second place team. If you're aim is for second place, then I'd say stick with them. If you're aiming for the top, now is a good time to shuffle out saleable players who will not make a difference in the future and bring some more young developing talent into the system. Just my two cents. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/forum/2c.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Phhhl
07-20-2008, 10:50 PM
Sarcasm? That's not how the "law of averages" (or logic, for that matter) works...

But, it was a good series against those guys. I will take it. I don't invest much in the law of averages either, btw. But, I am thankful to emerge from this series with a split.