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View Full Version : No Cordero to start the 9th?



keeganbrick
07-13-2008, 06:04 PM
How in the world does a major league manager leave David Weathers out there to pitch the 9th? He pitched the last 2 nights and the 8th inning today for 3 innings in 4 days. You really want to run him out there again in the 9th.....wow. Hall, Cameron due up who both strikeout a lot, Cordero didnt pitch last night and wont pitch for a while with the break. I appreciate that Weathers has been good this series but as soon as we got out of the 8th inning alive Im bringing in Cordero for the 9th and 10th inning if it goes that far.

Blue
07-13-2008, 06:06 PM
He's not very smart and is a terrible manager. The worst.

dthomas24
07-13-2008, 06:08 PM
I can't agree more. Ridiculous!!!!!

Fon Duc Tow
07-13-2008, 06:11 PM
I too was baffled that he left Weathers out there to pitch the 9th.

Can anyone come to Dusty's defense on this? Because again, I was just baffled. Almost like Dusty bet against the Reds...

Mutaman
07-13-2008, 06:11 PM
Let me try to explain it to you- with Burton out that left the Reds a man short in the bullpen (two men short if you count the horrible Majewski). As a result Baker had to stretch those available-get an extra batter out of Bray and an extra inning out of Weathers. Under the circumstances, he didn't have a lot of options. Man, I hate second guessers.

Blue
07-13-2008, 06:15 PM
Let me try to explain it to you- with Burton out that left the Reds a man short in the bullpen (two men short if you count the horrible Majewski). As a result Baker had to stretch those available-get an extra batter out of Bray and an extra inning out of Weathers. Under the circumstances, he didn't have a lot of options. Man, I hate second guessers.

No. Cordero was in the bullpen and available. No reason for Weathers to pitch to a single batter in the ninth. He didn't need to use Bray in that situation at all or try to get an extra batter out of him because as we saw, Mike Lincoln was available. Try again.

Fon Duc Tow
07-13-2008, 06:15 PM
Let me try to explain it to you- with Burton out that left the Reds a man short in the bullpen (two men short if you count the horrible Majewski). As a result Baker had to stretch those available-get an extra batter out of Bray and an extra inning out of Weathers. Under the circumstances, he didn't have a lot of options. Man, I hate second guessers.

Hardly second guessing. I assumed Cordero would pitch the 9th. I would think most assumed the same. Cordero didn't even pitch last night. Perfect save/win situation. Thats why the Reds pay Cordero that kind of money. For those types of situations.

Then I see Weathers coming out for the 9th. And again, I was just baffled. Stunned. Pretty far from second guessing. :thumbdown

I don't even know what else to say after seeing that. Baffling. Wow.

keeganbrick
07-13-2008, 06:16 PM
Let me try to explain it to you- with Burton out that left the Reds a man short in the bullpen (two men short if you count the horrible Majewski). As a result Baker had to stretch those available-get an extra batter out of Bray and an extra inning out of Weathers. Under the circumstances, he didn't have a lot of options. Man, I hate second guessers.

I dont really agree with this. Affeldt had 3 days off before pitching an easy 9th inning last night and could easily give you 2 innings once you use Cordero. It's most lkely not going that far anyways considering that was already the 9th inning.

dthomas24
07-13-2008, 06:22 PM
Let me try to explain it to you- with Burton out that left the Reds a man short in the bullpen (two men short if you count the horrible Majewski). As a result Baker had to stretch those available-get an extra batter out of Bray and an extra inning out of Weathers. Under the circumstances, he didn't have a lot of options. Man, I hate second guessers.

Hasn't Weathers been stretched already over the past few days?

Mutaman
07-13-2008, 06:26 PM
Then I see Weathers coming out for the 9th. And again, I was just baffled. Stunned. Pretty far from second guessing. :thumbdown

.

Well the next time you're "baffled" and "stunned", why don't you post your feelings BEFORE the fact. Just because this is the Reds Board doesn't mean people should be free to redboard.

Blue
07-13-2008, 06:29 PM
Yeah, next time you're watching a game and Dusty does something stupid, get on the computer and tell everyone about it. Of course, you'll never get to watch much of the game because there are so many mistakes, but at least we'll all know that you aren't second guessing this great manager. You simply must point out his obvious mistakes as he makes them, and not wait until after the game to share. How dare you.

dthomas24
07-13-2008, 06:30 PM
Yeah, next time you're watching a game and Dusty does something stupid, get on the computer and tell everyone about it. Of course, you'll never get to watch much of the game because there are so many mistakes, but at least we'll all know that you aren't second guessing this great manager. You simply must point out his obvious mistakes as he makes them, and not wait until after the game to share. How dare you.

I can't type that fast!

Fon Duc Tow
07-13-2008, 06:30 PM
Well the next time you're "baffled" and "stunned", why don't you post your feelings BEFORE the fact. Just because this is the Reds Board doesn't mean people should be free to redboard.


I would have. But I was frozen. Stunned. Baffled. Then before I could react, the quick base hit. Then the sinking feeling. "Maybe Dusty will pull Weathers now, before it is too late," I thought. Nope. Uh oh, bases loaded. What, NOW he brings Cordero in?! Sigh, lets just get this over with. Base hit. Game over.

Baffled. And I considered it for a second too... "Am I being too hard on Dusty?"

Nope. Not in this case. :thumbdown

FlightRick
07-13-2008, 06:37 PM
I think "one man short in the pen" is probably your answer, whether you personally like it or not... the "use your closer in a tie game" gambit feels like it's a better one to use at home than on the road in any case, and here, that sense is amplified by the fact that our bullpen options are more limited than usual. Short of actually putting one across in the 10th and holding on after Cordero was already spent, this could easily have spiraled into another San Diego Debacle, and then you'd still all be complaining (just about the opposite thing).

Plus, Weathers was staying in to face the bottom of the Brewers line-up (regardless of any superstitious notion you have of Bill Hall as a Reds Slayer, he's also, in factuality, a .234 hitter on the year and was backed up by a .231 hitter and a .258 hitter).

It was a roll of the dice. It failed to work out. Deep breath. Exhale. Now don't sweat it again until Thursday...

Mutaman
07-13-2008, 06:43 PM
I think "one man short in the pen" is probably your answer, whether you personally like it or not... the "use your closer in a tie game" gambit feels like it's a better one to use at home than on the road in any case, and here, that sense is amplified by the fact that our bullpen options are more limited than usual. Short of actually putting one across in the 10th and holding on after Cordero was already spent, this could easily have spiraled into another San Diego Debacle, and then you'd still all be complaining (just about the opposite thing).

Plus, Weathers was staying in to face the bottom of the Brewers line-up (regardless of any superstitious notion you have of Bill Hall as a Reds Slayer, he's also, in factuality, a .234 hitter on the year and was backed up by a .231 hitter and a .258 hitter).

It was a roll of the dice. It failed to work out. Deep breath. Exhale. Now don't sweat it again until Thursday...

I'm sorry but you're not allowed to use logic and reason here. And certainly you should not be allowed to support your argument with facts.

It's all Baker's fault. I mean he could only take 2 out of 3 against one of the best teams in baseball on the road. With his top starter and his best setup man unavailable. And when his hotest hitter gets hurt, he loses to the defending Cy Young winner. What a bum.

mroby85
07-13-2008, 06:48 PM
unbelievable

Blue
07-13-2008, 06:49 PM
If Cordero comes in and blows it in the 9th, or the Reds lose it in extra innings, I'd still have complaints about other garbage moves he made during the game, but bringing in Cordero wouldn't be one of those moves. That was like firing blanks in a shootout while keeping your last bullet in your pocket just in case you need it later.

Not sure I've ever heard of a manager saying "Well, lets just lose this one right here in nine innings. I wouldn't want to have to play another two or three innings and just have my last B-list reliever available." For crying out loud, you've got to give your team its best chance to win the game!

Blue
07-13-2008, 06:52 PM
I mean he could only take 2 out of 3 against one of the best teams in baseball on the road.

That's dumb. He screwed up. AGAIN! The team winning 2 of 3 in spite of him does not excuse that fact that they would have won all three if they had someone who knew what they were doing pulling the strings.

There are no "facts and logic" to support Dusty. Its all on our side!

757690
07-13-2008, 07:02 PM
Mutaman and FlightRick, don't you know that by even replying to threads like these you are only enabling them? After every game, whether the Reds win or lose, the same bunch will start threads second guessing any and every move that Dusty makes.
Move along, nothing to see here.

Blue
07-13-2008, 07:25 PM
Mutaman and FlightRick, don't you know that by even replying to threads like these you are only enabling them? After every game, whether the Reds win or lose, the same bunch will start threads second guessing any and every move that Dusty makes.
Move along, nothing to see here.

Dusty provides all of the enabling. Game after game after game.

texasdave
07-13-2008, 07:33 PM
I think "one man short in the pen" is probably your answer, whether you personally like it or not... the "use your closer in a tie game" gambit feels like it's a better one to use at home than on the road in any case, and here, that sense is amplified by the fact that our bullpen options are more limited than usual. Short of actually putting one across in the 10th and holding on after Cordero was already spent, this could easily have spiraled into another San Diego Debacle, and then you'd still all be complaining (just about the opposite thing).

Plus, Weathers was staying in to face the bottom of the Brewers line-up (regardless of any superstitious notion you have of Bill Hall as a Reds Slayer, he's also, in factuality, a .234 hitter on the year and was backed up by a .231 hitter and a .258 hitter).

It was a roll of the dice. It failed to work out. Deep breath. Exhale. Now don't sweat it again until Thursday...


If they were in a stretch of 20 games in 21 days, or something along those lines, I would tend to agree. But with three days off because of the All-Star break I don't think that "one man short in the pen" line of thought flies. If push comes to shove couldn't Cueto and Arroyo have given the Reds an inning apiece? This game was important and this was one of those rare occasions were just about everyone should have been available. Just about being the key words here.

Mutaman
07-13-2008, 07:59 PM
Mutaman and FlightRick, don't you know that by even replying to threads like these you are only enabling them? After every game, whether the Reds win or lose, the same bunch will start threads second guessing any and every move that Dusty makes.
Move along, nothing to see here.

I can't help it, I'm "dumb". And I hate second guessers. I guess it wouldn't be so bad if just one of this bunch could write a grammatically correct sentence.

keeganbrick
07-13-2008, 08:05 PM
Please guys, Im not the biggest Dusty fan but I dont disagree with every thing he does. I was fine with bringing in Bray in that situation earlier. I just see no reason why Weathers should be left out there to pitch the 9th as explained in my previous post. This is not the usual ragging on Dusty after every game, there was actually some terrible managing at the end of the game unless Dusty has a real good excuse.

Fon Duc Tow
07-13-2008, 10:52 PM
Please guys, Im not the biggest Dusty fan but I dont disagree with every thing he does. I was fine with bringing in Bray in that situation earlier. I just see no reason why Weathers should be left out there to pitch the 9th as explained in my previous post. This is not the usual ragging on Dusty after every game, there was actually some terrible managing at the end of the game unless Dusty has a real good excuse.


Exactly. I am not among the Dusty bashers. But this one really threw me for a loop.

superred
07-14-2008, 01:22 AM
i really dont think dusty has done as bad of a job as pretty much everyone here thinks with the roster he was given, he may play patterson too much but the guy does have 2 play and bruce does need a day off. in the first few innings the reds were getting 2 sabathia but then hairston got hurt and they went quietly the rest of the night. how would u have rather dusty put in exept for weathers, magic sucks, burton was hurt lincoln is alright , and dusty was trying 2 save cordero 4 when he was really going 2 be needed in a save situiation. u really cant be surprised that the brewers won this game when they did bill hall always does something 2 the reds in the clutch so everybody just calm down

Newman4
07-14-2008, 01:32 AM
Ah, my .02....I was thinking the exact same thing as almost everyone here. Why use Weathers for three straight days and more than one inning on the third day with Cordero more than rested in the pen? Weathers isn't even that good anyways. Dusty blew this one.

dougflynn23
07-14-2008, 02:09 AM
The only reason that Gabe Kapler has an MLB job is because he crushes LHP. He has a .960+ OPS against them. I would have left Bailey to face Fielder because 1) Bailey needs to learn how to finish against tough hitters and 2) Fielder had not hit Bailey in his earlier AB;s (the hit was against a shift that shouldn't have happened - you don't shift when your pitcher throws 95+).

Leaving Bray in to face Kapler was what lost the game.

Jack Burton
07-14-2008, 05:22 PM
Very stupid move to not bring Cordero in, even more stupid is starting CP. Reds would be 10 games over .500 now with a competent manager.