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dougdirt
07-16-2008, 01:37 AM
someone needs to just toss one up there and get it over with. Great game and all, but there is no reason to risk someone here.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 01:38 AM
I'm split on the outcome here:

An NL win and the Reds' league but the Cubs get home field if they make it to the WS

An AL win and the Reds' league loses but it makes it tougher for the Cubs to win the WS

Good point. A loss by the NL might mean one less game of Wrigely love in October.

I can live with that.

CTA513
07-16-2008, 01:38 AM
Kazmir is the only pitcher left for the AL.
The NL still has Lidge, Webb and Marmol left.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 01:39 AM
Carlos Guillen doubles off the top of the wall in LF, just missing a walk off homerun.

CTA513
07-16-2008, 01:39 AM
Cook is still pitching even though the NL has 3 pitchers available.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 01:41 AM
Sizemore grounds to Uggla who again bobbles the ball but still gets Sizemore by a step. Guillen advances to third with one out.

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 01:42 AM
I am really surprised Cook is still out there with Lidge and Marmol not being used.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 01:43 AM
Longoria K's. Can they escape it again?

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 01:43 AM
Longoria strikes out. 2 outs with a runner on 3rd.

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 01:43 AM
2 gone!

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 01:43 AM
Morneau intentionally walked with Kinsler coming up.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 01:44 AM
Was that ground ball foul? Looked fair on the replay.

dougdirt
07-16-2008, 01:45 AM
Was that ground ball foul? Looked fair on the replay.

It was foul by a foot or so.

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 01:45 AM
The Rangers have some bats

dougdirt
07-16-2008, 01:45 AM
This is getting funny.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 01:46 AM
The Rangers have some bats

And plenty more on the way in the minors.

Kinsler grounds out! On to the 13th inning. What a game!

dougdirt
07-16-2008, 01:46 AM
Bud Selig looking real interested in the game....

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 01:46 AM
Unbelievable. 2 more runners left on. 14 runners left on for the AL, 7 in the last 3 innings.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 01:46 AM
It was foul by a foot or so.

I must be blind. I think I'll go downstairs and check the DVR.

CTA513
07-16-2008, 01:46 AM
Cook has really pitched out of some jams tonight.

HumnHilghtFreel
07-16-2008, 01:46 AM
Aaron Cook is a regular escape artist out there

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 01:46 AM
We play on...

redsmetz
07-16-2008, 01:46 AM
And plenty more on the way in the minors.

Kinsler grounds out! On to the 13th inning. What a game!

Maybe we can get Tony Perez to pinch hit and hit another All Star Game extra-innings home run.

Bob Borkowski
07-16-2008, 01:47 AM
Maybe we can get Tony Perez to pinch hit and hit another All Star Game extra-innings home run.

1967

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 01:48 AM
The longest All-Star game in history was in 1967 when it went 15 innings...

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 01:49 AM
Shoot, the DVR stopped recording at midnight. It looked like the last bounce before Guzman picked it up was fair.

Must be the beers.

redsmetz
07-16-2008, 01:49 AM
1967

I was 12 years old and stayed up for the whole thing!

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 01:49 AM
Game has now been going over 4 hours. Wright leads off with a hit.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 01:50 AM
David Wright breaks his bat and singles to begin the 13th.

Bob Borkowski
07-16-2008, 01:50 AM
I was 12 years old and stayed up for the whole thing!

Pretty sure it was a day game

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 01:53 AM
Kazmir getting ready

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 01:54 AM
Kazmir getting ready

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 01:55 AM
Ludwick pops out to end the top half of the 13th inning.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 01:58 AM
Carlos Marmol comes on to pitch.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 01:58 AM
Navarro grounds out to second base.

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 01:58 AM
Marmol in for the 13th.

redsmetz
07-16-2008, 01:58 AM
Pretty sure it was a day game

I finally found a reference; it was the first game broadcast in Prime Time. I'd always pictured myself at my friends house and it was late. Speaking of which, I've got to go to bed!

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 01:59 AM
Another Cub

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:00 AM
Uggla just made another error. Goodness.

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 02:00 AM
Another ball off Uggla this one on a tough hop.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 02:01 AM
I wonder if Brandon Phillips makes that play?

LOL.

dougdirt
07-16-2008, 02:01 AM
just give up a tater, please.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 02:02 AM
I don't think anyone has EVER had a worse AS game than Dan Uggla.

blumj
07-16-2008, 02:02 AM
I'm starting to see why Dan Uggla doesn't have such a great defensive reputation.

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 02:02 AM
I finally found a reference; it was the first game broadcast in Prime Time. I'd always pictured myself at my friends house and it was late. Speaking of which, I've got to go to bed!

So do I but I hope to wait this out

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 02:02 AM
Those 3 errors are an All Star Game record.

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 02:03 AM
Drew steals 2nd. 2 outs on a strikeout.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:03 AM
Michael Young K's looking but Drew steals second base. Two outs.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 02:03 AM
Russell Martin is awesome.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:05 AM
Quentin K's. On to the 14th inning.

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 02:05 AM
Wow...14

reds44
07-16-2008, 02:05 AM
That was nasty.

mbgrayson
07-16-2008, 02:06 AM
How long till Bud calls the game? AL is down to Kazmir, and he just pitched and is supposed to not play today.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 02:06 AM
Francona is going to have to bring in Kazmir.

And then what?

dougdirt
07-16-2008, 02:07 AM
I say its time to go to a HR derby. Hamilton versus who for the NL?

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:08 AM
McLouth flies out to the warning track.

KronoRed
07-16-2008, 02:08 AM
This is great, rotations all around the lague are getting nuked.

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 02:09 AM
How long will they let this go?

dougdirt
07-16-2008, 02:10 AM
How long will they let this go?

I hope this is the last inning. Seriously. There is no reason to bring in Scott Kazmir.

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 02:10 AM
They may have to get Lincecum out of the hospital to finish this.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:11 AM
NL goes down 1-2-3.

dougdirt
07-16-2008, 02:11 AM
Come on Longoria, put one out of here and end this crap.

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 02:11 AM
Hamilton vs Pujols HR derby to win it!

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 02:11 AM
On to the bottom of the 14th. NL still has Lidge they can bring in before they get to Webb who also was not supposed to be used today.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 02:12 AM
Don't you want to see what happens if it keeps going?

I do.

dougdirt
07-16-2008, 02:12 AM
Don't you want to see what happens if it keeps going?

I do.

Not if it means Scott Kazmir has to throw a single pitch.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:13 AM
I'd like to see it at least go 15 innings and tie the record. I'd bring in position players to pitch before calling it a tie.

blumj
07-16-2008, 02:13 AM
The DHs could pitch.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:13 AM
Webb now pitching.

dougdirt
07-16-2008, 02:14 AM
OK, Brandon Webb is pitching after throwing 108 on Sunday with Brad Lidge not in the game?!

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 02:14 AM
Not if it means Scott Kazmir has to throw a single pitch.

Why?

dougdirt
07-16-2008, 02:15 AM
Why?

Because he threw 104 pitches on Sunday and its stupid to risk pitching him. Just like its stupid to have Brandon Webb throwing right now.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:15 AM
Lineout to Tejada for the first out.

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 02:15 AM
Webb is in before Lidge. That makes no sense unless something is wrong with Lidge. Webb threw 108 pitches Sunday.

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 02:16 AM
Looks like all 3 pitchers who threw Sunday will pitch.

Dempster already pitched after throwing 118 pitches Sunday. Now Webb is in and Kazmir is next.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 02:16 AM
Because he threw 104 pitches on Sunday and its stupid to risk pitching him. Just like its stupid to have Brandon Webb throwing right now.

Which makes it all the more interesting.

The whole winner getting homefield in the WS is stupid and needs to be exposed.

KronoRed
07-16-2008, 02:16 AM
Guys who aren't "available" should be replaced, call them allstars but get guys in who can play.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:16 AM
Sizemore K's. Two outs.

Bob Borkowski
07-16-2008, 02:16 AM
I finally found a reference; it was the first game broadcast in Prime Time. I'd always pictured myself at my friends house and it was late. Speaking of which, I've got to go to bed!

But the game started at 1:15 California time and lasted 3 hrs. and 41 min. If the game was over at around 8 pm Cincy time you were really a believer in 'early to bed and early to rise.' ;)


Good night, metz. Pleasant dreams. :)

VR
07-16-2008, 02:16 AM
Looks like all these starters' careers will be over after having to pitch relief on short rest.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 02:17 AM
Guys who aren't "available" should be replaced, call them allstars but get guys in who can play.

Yep.

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 02:18 AM
On to the 15th. I don't see how this game goes beyond the 15th.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:18 AM
Longoria K's. Off to the 15th inning which will tie the record for innings in an All-Star game.

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 02:19 AM
Webb is filthy good

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 02:20 AM
Maybe they can call it a tie and winner next year gets 5 of the 7 at home in the 2009 WS. LOL.

RedsManRick
07-16-2008, 02:20 AM
It counts this time folks. They can't just call it a tie. HR Derby? Hamilton vs Pujols.

CTA513
07-16-2008, 02:20 AM
Webb is filthy good

Yep, all his pitches have good movement and sink.

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 02:20 AM
If no one scores they should just end it after 15. Give the team with the best overall record home field.

KronoRed
07-16-2008, 02:20 AM
Where have you gone Tony Perez our pitchers turn their lowly eyes to you..woowoowoo

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:21 AM
What a game. This has been a joy to watch.

Kazmir in to pitch.

Gainesville Red
07-16-2008, 02:21 AM
Anyone know what's up with Lidge? I'd throw him in there long before Webb.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:21 AM
Uggla K's. Rough night.

Gainesville Red
07-16-2008, 02:21 AM
Rough night for Uggla.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 02:22 AM
Uggla is uggla tonight.

I think he's created a new baseball term.

Juan Castro's OPS is uggla.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:22 AM
I feel sorry for Uggla tonight. He's a very good player who is just having an off night.

WVRedsFan
07-16-2008, 02:24 AM
I'm not watching (even in HD), but one thing I can't understand is why Uggla (or whoever you spell his name) is so bad. Three errors (ast last count) and he just struck out. I never understood why he was in the game anyway, and I keep looking for the stars on the NL side and wonder where they are (my prejudice)?

Whatever happend to the great players playing in the AS game? Maybe time has passed me by, I don't know, But what I see is a lot of guys who are wannabees. Or maybe not. It's late and it's getting tiring (even on radio).

dougdirt
07-16-2008, 02:25 AM
Kazmir has lost it.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:25 AM
Gonzalez flies out and David Wright walked on four pitches.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:26 AM
Guzman grounds out to Morneau. 3-3 after 14 1/2.

Gainesville Red
07-16-2008, 02:26 AM
Uggla absolutley deserves to be there.

Hitting around .286. 23 HR's, .978 OPS.

Just a rough night.

RBA
07-16-2008, 02:26 AM
Kazmir got out of it somehow.

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 02:26 AM
Kaz does it with ease

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 02:26 AM
Why not let pitchers re-enter in AS games, if it gets to this?

Either that or guys like Kazmir (that just pitched) should not be on the active roster.

CTA513
07-16-2008, 02:27 AM
Heres Ugglas night so far: 0 for 4 with 3 Ks, 6 left on base and 3 errors

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:28 AM
I'm not watching (even in HD), but one thing I can't understand is why Uggla (or whoever you spell his name) is so bad. Three errors (ast last count) and he just struck out. I never understood why he was in the game anyway, and I keep looking for the stars on the NL side and wonder where they are (my prejudice)?

Whatever happend to the great players playing in the AS game? Maybe time has passed me by, I don't know, But what I see is a lot of guys who are wannabees. Or maybe not. It's late and it's getting tiring (even on radio).

Uggla is hitting .286/.374/.605 - .978 OPS with 23 homeruns and is playing his half game in a tough park to hit in. He definitely deserved to make the All-Star team. He's not very good with the glove but he can hit. He's just having a very rough night.

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 02:28 AM
great commercial :lol:

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 02:29 AM
Lidge is in and McCann is in so all players and pitchers have been used.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:29 AM
Brad Lidge now in to pitch.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:30 AM
Morneau singles to lead off the bottom of the 15th.

Gainesville Red
07-16-2008, 02:30 AM
Brad Lidge now in to pitch.

Wonder why it took so long?

I'd think he would have been in before Webb.

RedsManRick
07-16-2008, 02:30 AM
It's quite possible that 98% of the fans want this thing to keep going - just to see what happens.

KronoRed
07-16-2008, 02:31 AM
It ends here, orders to groove one have been issued.

Gainesville Red
07-16-2008, 02:31 AM
It's quite possible that 98% of the fans want this thing to keep going - just to see what happens.

You read my mind. I don't have to work tommorow, I can go all night.

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 02:31 AM
wow!

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:31 AM
I'd like to see it go 16 innings and position players brought in to pitch.

Ludwick makes a diving catch for the first out.

Reds Fanatic
07-16-2008, 02:32 AM
Great catch by Ludwick

Gainesville Red
07-16-2008, 02:32 AM
This is awesome.

WVRedsFan
07-16-2008, 02:32 AM
Uggla absolutley deserves to be there.

Hitting around .286. 23 HR's, .978 OPS.

Just a rough night.

OK...

Whatever happens, he's stunk up the joint tonight. Bad luck? Maybe. The longest AS game in history is happening before our eyes because of not hitting with RISP. Sound familiar?

Phillips hitting .280. 15 HR's, .799 OPS and a helluva fielder. One more indication where all those statistics are good, but don't wear well in a real game.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 02:33 AM
Ludwick looks like Cameron from Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:33 AM
Navarro singles, Morneau holds at 2nd.

dougdirt
07-16-2008, 02:33 AM
I still stand by what I said about an hour ago. JD Drew is hiting a walk off

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 02:34 AM
Heres Ugglas night so far: 0 for 4 with 3 Ks, 6 left on base and 3 errors

Didn't he have a GIDP too?

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 02:34 AM
You read my mind. I don't have to work tommorow, I can go all night.

I do after a week off but ill keep watching

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 02:35 AM
I still stand by what I said about an hour ago. JD Drew is hiting a walk off

I was in attendance for his 1st major league HR.

The night after Big Mac hit #62.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:36 AM
Drew walks. Bases loaded and only one out for Michael Young.

Gainesville Red
07-16-2008, 02:36 AM
Lidge is laboring out there.

Gainesville Red
07-16-2008, 02:37 AM
Man, game of inches.

What a game.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:37 AM
Michael Young sac fly. Morneau barely beats the throw.

AL wins 4-3.

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 02:38 AM
ballgame!

KronoRed
07-16-2008, 02:38 AM
Boooo!

RedsManRick
07-16-2008, 02:38 AM
A good throw would've had him.

CTA513
07-16-2008, 02:38 AM
Should have just went after Drew instead of losing it on a sac fly.

HumnHilghtFreel
07-16-2008, 02:38 AM
What a game. But it is time for me to finally go to sleep now LOL

WVRedsFan
07-16-2008, 02:39 AM
All Hail the American League.

Gainesville Red
07-16-2008, 02:39 AM
You know what else is nice. They look like they care.

Bob Borkowski
07-16-2008, 02:39 AM
Say goodnight, Dick.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-16-2008, 02:39 AM
A good throw would've had him.

Yep. Weak throw from a guy that shouldn't even be there.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:39 AM
Corey Hart bounced it two or three times. A slightly better throw nails him.

Time of game: 4:50

WVRedsFan
07-16-2008, 02:40 AM
Say goodnight, Dick.

Good night, Dick,er, Bob

reds44
07-16-2008, 02:40 AM
I can't believe Bud got let off the hook.

Matt700wlw
07-16-2008, 02:41 AM
goodnight!

reds44
07-16-2008, 02:41 AM
Dunn throws him out!!!!!1

Bob Borkowski
07-16-2008, 02:42 AM
goodnight!

Goodnight, Matt. Make us proud tomorrow on the Big One.

Tony Cloninger
07-16-2008, 02:43 AM
They do look like they care......which is good.

Feel bad for Uggla...but that one AB against the KC pitcher..... swings wildly at a ball...takes a strike down the pipe...and swings at a slow breaking ball...IT looked like a struggling Adam Dunn at bat. ;)

Seriously...expand the rosters so pitchers who pitched 2 days before the game do not have to be used.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:44 AM
Where does that rank among the greatest All-Star games?

WVRedsFan
07-16-2008, 02:45 AM
Dunn throws him out!!!!!1

Ha! Dunn apparently wasn't worthy in the eyes of the fans. Nor Phillips or even the historical Griffey. Not to mention that the Reds only had one all-star, a pitcher. Nothing like a pitcher's duel in an all star game. Wonder how many were still watching in overtime?

The HR derby was such a hit and the game became a fiasco of errors and no runs. Can't help, IMHO, but I'm an old fogey.

mbgrayson
07-16-2008, 02:45 AM
I bet we will learn that if they didn't score in the 15th, that Francona would forfeit, or the game would be called a tie. I don't think he was going to send Kazmir back out there.

Oh well, AL wins 4-3 in 15 on the Sac Fly from Michael Young, with Morneau scoring the winning run just ahead of McCanns tag.

SandyD
07-16-2008, 02:46 AM
Why not let pitchers re-enter in AS games, if it gets to this?

Either that or guys like Kazmir (that just pitched) should not be on the active roster.
.

I'd rather mandate position players pitch after the 12th inning.
And allow reentry of position players (but only as pitchers.)

If the game goes longer than 15, start each half inning with a base runner at second.

OR: simply do away with the home field advantage based upon the ASG winner, and call the game a tie after 12. Or something. Just set the limit ahead of time.

And let the WS home field advantage be determined by league-wide interleague record.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:46 AM
JD Drew wins the MVP award.

blumj
07-16-2008, 02:47 AM
JD Drew wins the MVP award.

He would have thrown him out, too.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 02:48 AM
He would have thrown him out, too.

By a mile. I thought Corey Hart had a stronger arm than that.

reds44
07-16-2008, 02:51 AM
Hurdle's postgame press conference was awesome.

Gainesville Red
07-16-2008, 02:57 AM
Hurdle's postgame press conference was awesome.


Yeah, it really was. He was holding court. I don't want to understate how great I think it is that everyone looked like they cared. I want the allstar game to be like it was when I was a kid. Maybe this is a step in the right direction.

Ron Madden
07-16-2008, 05:47 AM
But the game started at 1:15 California time and lasted 3 hrs. and 41 min. If the game was over at around 8 pm Cincy time you were really a believer in 'early to bed and early to rise


I remember it as a night game. (must be getting old)


:)

cincyinco
07-16-2008, 06:41 AM
I am shocked at how many have suggested to just let this game end in a tie again. This is baseball! Even hockey got rid of the tie game. Maybe its the purist in me showing through, but the first time was redicilous, if it ever happens again it will be beyond shameful. Expand the rosters. But never end in a tie. ever.

cumberlandreds
07-16-2008, 08:08 AM
The HOF on the field with the intros of the starting lineups is pretty cool. Sort of disappointing to see no Bench, no Morgan representing the Reds.

Very disappointing! Where was Morgan? He was there the night before with ESPN. Seaver wasn't there either. I wonder if there was some Yankee hatred among some of these guys?

redsmetz
07-16-2008, 08:22 AM
Very disappointing! Where was Morgan? He was there the night before with ESPN. Seaver wasn't there either. I wonder if there was some Yankee hatred among some of these guys?

Bench stuck out like a sore thumb, but Seaver and Morgan are mystifying too. Not to mention, where on earth was native New Yorker Sandy Koufax?

LoganBuck
07-16-2008, 08:28 AM
I am shocked at how many have suggested to just let this game end in a tie again. This is baseball! Even hockey got rid of the tie game. Maybe its the purist in me showing through, but the first time was redicilous, if it ever happens again it will be beyond shameful. Expand the rosters. But never end in a tie. ever.

But at what cost?

cumberlandreds
07-16-2008, 08:49 AM
Bench stuck out like a sore thumb, but Seaver and Morgan are mystifying too. Not to mention, where on earth was native New Yorker Sandy Koufax?

Also two Red Sox didn't attend,Fisk and Yaz. Stan the Man wasn't there either. But he's getting up there in age and maybe can't travel too well.
Steinbrenner didn't look well at all. I haven't heard anything about him but I guess they are keeping things quiet.

SandyD
07-16-2008, 09:01 AM
I am shocked at how many have suggested to just let this game end in a tie again. This is baseball! Even hockey got rid of the tie game. Maybe its the purist in me showing through, but the first time was redicilous, if it ever happens again it will be beyond shameful. Expand the rosters. But never end in a tie. ever.

I don't think anyone "wants" to see a tie, but expanding the rosters isn't the answer. How many players should you bring in, hold out ... just in case there's an extra inning game? What if the game went 25 innings?

Like others, I'd prefer to see position players pitch than a tie game, but neither manager is going to be the first to take that option.

cumberlandreds
07-16-2008, 09:20 AM
My thought on the extra innings would be to add a pitcher or two for each league and designate them as alternates. Basically to be used only for long extra inning games or other emergencies such as Lincecum getting "sick" and not being bale to attend the game or if an injury occurred during the game. You should be covered then. Or, you also could add a stipulation that game could go no longer than say 16 innings. That way everyone would know in advance that would be it.

redsmetz
07-16-2008, 09:43 AM
Once baseball decided everyone had to get in the game and you're yanking guys out after a couple of innings and then sending in replacements every few innings, you're always going to be at risk of this happening.

While looking up the info about the 1967 game, I found mention that Tony hit his homer in the 15th inning off Catfish Hunter who had been pitching five innings. Many of the players were in for a considerable amount of time (seven players had six AB's, two others five).

Back then, these guys played all out and were in the game much longer. I just looked at the famed 1970 Rose/Fosse game and you once again had several players with six AB's.

A further aside: In 1967, Hunter had pitched six innings on 7/7; then the five in the ASG on the 11th and came back and pitched eight innings on 7/16. You'd never see that today.

blumj
07-16-2008, 09:58 AM
Once baseball decided everyone had to get in the game and you're yanking guys out after a couple of innings and then sending in replacements every few innings, you're always going to be at risk of this happening.

While looking up the info about the 1967 game, I found mention that Tony hit his homer in the 15th inning off Catfish Hunter who had been pitching five innings. Many of the players were in for a considerable amount of time (seven players had six AB's, two others five).

Back then, these guys played all out and were in the game much longer. I just looked at the famed 1970 Rose/Fosse game and you once again had several players with six AB's.

A further aside: In 1967, Hunter had pitched six innings on 7/7; then the five in the ASG on the 11th and came back and pitched eight innings on 7/16. You'd never see that today.
It just seems like ALL the teams send their pitchers to the All Star Game with instructions that they can only pitch 1 inning, or throw X number of pitches, or they shouldn't pitch at all unless it's an emergency. I don't know if I should blame Francona for this, or if he came with the standard 1 inning only instructions, but when George Sherrill has to go 2+ innings in the same game that Roy "Complete Game" Halladay only threw 9 pitches, something's not right.

15fan
07-16-2008, 10:51 AM
Here's another thought on ensuring enough able-bodied pitchers:

Everyone plays a double-header during the year, allowing for an additional off-day in the calendar. Then play the ASG on a Wed night with Mon & Tues being off days. That way, even if your team plays the Sunday Night ESPN game, everyone has at least 2 full days off before the day of the game (which doesn't start until 9 EDT).

In reality, most guys would be done playing early afternoon on Sunday, and then not have to play/pitch until Wed night. That's over 72 hours off from the end of play on Sun afternoon to the start of play for the Wed ASG. If you didn't play/pitch on Sunday, that's 4 days off.

Take Thurs off for travel, and resume play on Friday evening.

Radical idea, isn't it?

westofyou
07-16-2008, 11:30 AM
Another meaningless AS game ends with less than stellar all stars on the field and the announcers getting ready to leave the booth before the game was over.

Exhibition baseball is all it is... so why does the winner get anything more than trip to the Dairy Barn?

NJReds
07-16-2008, 12:17 PM
Exhibition baseball is all it is... so why does the winner get anything more than trip to the Dairy Barn?

Home field in the World Series was alternated each year between the leagues, so it was never treated as being much of a big deal in the first place.

westofyou
07-16-2008, 12:25 PM
Home field in the World Series was alternated each year between the leagues, so it was never treated as being much of a big deal in the first place.

Yep.. and the game was founded as an exhibition game back in the 30's and somewhere they let the suits decide that it was something more.

Suits can be dumb as a bag of doorknobs if given an opportunity.

cumberlandreds
07-16-2008, 01:11 PM
Yep.. and the game was founded as an exhibition game back in the 30's and somewhere they let the suits decide that it was something more.

Suits can be dumb as a bag of doorknobs if given an opportunity.

On Baseball Golden Age show they said the ASG in 1933 was meant as a one time thing for the Worlds Fair. But it was such a hit the MLB owners decided to keep it.

_Sir_Charles_
07-16-2008, 01:16 PM
After seeing Uggla's wonderful night, I'm curious...how many HERE actually took the time and voted for Phillips? With him not even being in the top EIGHT in the NL voting, it really gets me thinking about the apathy of Reds fans out there. *shrugs*

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2008, 01:20 PM
After reading some quotes from Clint Hurdle, it sounds like David Wright would have pitched if the game had gone any longer. I was hoping it would go another inning so we could start seeing some position players on the mound.

Roy Tucker
07-16-2008, 01:25 PM
I think the players ought to be able to play in shorts and t-shirts and drink beer in the dugout.

Have a grill going with burgers and tofu dogs. Let the wives bat and kids run the bases.

blumj
07-16-2008, 01:33 PM
I'm listening to a Francona interview. After Dionner Navarro got thrown out at the plate, Francona told him, "You make Sean Casey look fast."

Chip R
07-16-2008, 01:35 PM
I'm listening to a Francona interview. After Dionner Navarro got thrown out at the plate, Francona told him, "You make Sean Casey look fast."


Now that's slow.

Highlifeman21
07-16-2008, 01:45 PM
A stealth fly by.

How could you see it if it was stealth?

blumj
07-16-2008, 01:52 PM
Now that's slow.

Sadly, it's not true. Maybe Frank Thomas at 40-something with 2 bad knees could make Casey look like something approaching quick.

KronoRed
07-16-2008, 08:39 PM
How could you see it if it was stealth?

Stealth not Cloaked :D

WVPacman
07-17-2008, 01:00 AM
Seeing Willie Mays stand there by himself and almost glare at everyone was really cool. Sorta had a look like "I could still play if I wanted."


Sorry for bringing this thread back up but I have to ask did anybody else think Willie Mays gave Josh Hamilton the cold shoulder?? Josh ran up to the guy dying to shake his hand but Mays had his head turned and never looked at him.Hamilton just padded him on the back.All the other old all stars shook hands with the all stars of today but not Mays.He might not of even shook hands with the Cubs player I don't know but it seemed like he just did'nt want nothing to do with Hamilton.I hope im wrong!!!!

Falls City Beer
07-17-2008, 10:52 AM
The ball, or JD Drew?

Yeah, I know his rep as a slacker. Just imagine all the slack the Reds would have if they had Dunn and Drew in the lineup: two .950 OPSers. Man that would suck.

The slack that kills.

You should appreciate one of the greatest most unheralded seasons from a guy in the last 20 years: Drew's monster season in one of the biggest parks in baseball: Atlanta 2004. His numbers were mind-blowing in that park.

blumj
07-17-2008, 12:59 PM
Yeah, I know his rep as a slacker. Just imagine all the slack the Reds would have if they had Dunn and Drew in the lineup: two .950 OPSers. Man that would suck.

The slack that kills.

You should appreciate one of the greatest most unheralded seasons from a guy in the last 20 years: Drew's monster season in one of the biggest parks in baseball: Atlanta 2004. His numbers were mind-blowing in that park.
You know, JD Drew could actually be a pretty decent ballplayer if he cared. Too bad he doesn't. ;)

KronoRed
07-17-2008, 02:18 PM
You know, JD Drew could actually be a pretty decent ballplayer if he cared. Too bad he doesn't. ;)

Plays too much Mario Kart

hebroncougar
07-17-2008, 04:16 PM
Sorry for bringing this thread back up but I have to ask did anybody else think Willie Mays gave Josh Hamilton the cold shoulder?? Josh ran up to the guy dying to shake his hand but Mays had his head turned and never looked at him.Hamilton just padded him on the back.All the other old all stars shook hands with the all stars of today but not Mays.He might not of even shook hands with the Cubs player I don't know but it seemed like he just did'nt want nothing to do with Hamilton.I hope im wrong!!!!

I thought Mays gave everyone the cold shoulder, the players, and the crowd when they cheered when he was announced. Ticked off because his godson has been "banished"?

Jpup
07-17-2008, 04:25 PM
I thought Mays gave everyone the cold shoulder, the players, and the crowd when they cheered when he was announced. Ticked off because his godson has been "banished"?

That's exactly what I thought.

WebScorpion
07-17-2008, 05:10 PM
I thought Mays gave everyone the cold shoulder, the players, and the crowd when they cheered when he was announced. Ticked off because his godson has been "banished"?
Huh. At first I thought he looked angry, but then as I saw some of the other older guys limping around, I noticed Willie never moved a muscle, he just stood there with that scowl on his face. I realized I had seen that look before on my Dad, when he would stand up after his knees were shot, (before his knee replacement surgery,) and he was in so much pain all he could manage was to stand in one spot and use anger at his own body for not obeying him as a driving force to remain standing. I think they had Willie standing too long. If he was upset about his Godson, he would have never showed up. I think he was in pain. Did you see McCovey force himself to stand up from his wheelchair? The same heart that made them great players, makes them proud, stubborn old men. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/char124.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

westofyou
07-17-2008, 05:22 PM
Huh. At first I thought he looked angry, but then as I saw some of the other older guys limping around, I noticed Willie never moved a muscle, he just stood there with that scowl on his face. I realized I had seen that look before on my Dad, when he would stand up after his knees were shot, (before his knee replacement surgery,) and he was in so much pain all he could manage was to stand in one spot and use anger at his own body for not obeying him as a driving force to remain standing. I think they had Willie standing too long. If he was upset about his Godson, he would have never showed up. I think he was in pain. Did you see McCovey force himself to stand up from his wheelchair? The same heart that made them great players, makes them proud, stubborn old men. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/char124.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Willie Mays is 77 years old, chances are he's a lot frailer then we'd think he is, and the man was never angry in his whole life (the reverse, he was a joy) so I'm certainly not gonna be thinking he is now.

WVPacman
07-18-2008, 12:44 AM
Thanks guys for telling me what you seen and I agree he acted very disrespecful and my dad echoed the same thing about him being mad b/c of Bonds was'nt there and not getting to play this year.Mays could at least took his hat off and waved to the crowd then shake both players hands.

RedsManRick
07-18-2008, 01:36 AM
I thought Mays gave everyone the cold shoulder, the players, and the crowd when they cheered when he was announced. Ticked off because his godson has been "banished"?

Joe Posnanski had an article which toched on the Mays/Hamilton interaction, or lack thereof. on his blog today. Very insightful I thought and gave me pause about judging Mays too harsly. Maybe he really did intentionally snub Josh, but I can't help but consider Joe's point of view.

http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/



When I was still a kid in this crazy sportswriting racket, I drove several hours with a friend to see Mickey Mantle sign autographs at a baseball card show. My friend actually wanted to buy Mantleís autograph ó he was a photographer and as I recall he really wanted some photo he took signed. I just wanted to see what kind of person (other than desperate photographers) would spend fifty bucks to get something scribbled on by Mickey Mantle.

Itís not exactly that Iím opposed to autographs. Iím not. I have my autograph stories. Iíve told my Jim Kern story here before ó I was 8 years old, I think, and I was waiting patiently before a game at Cleveland Municipal Stadium for Kernís autograph, there were probably five or six kids around. Of course, I stood meekly in the back. And then when I was the only one left, Jim noticed that the game was about to begin. ďIĒm sorry,ď he said to me, ĒIíve got to get with the team.ď And I must have had started crying ó not the wailing kind either, more like the pitifiul ĒIím trying not to cry but I canít help it,ď whimper ó and he looked back at the plate, back at me, dropped his shoulders and said, ĒOh, itís OK, come on, Iíll sign it real quick.ď And he signed my piece of paper. I was SO happy. I mean, along with getting my first microscope set (which I played with for at least seven minutes before getting bored), along with winning my fourth grade spelling bee (losing in the school-wide bee to the two sixth graders!), along with making three three diving plays at shortstop in a Little League game, along with finally getting that 1976 Boog Powell baseball card ó along with those and a few other big moments, getting Jim Kernís autograph was one of the thrills of my childhood.

Trouble is, then I went back to my seat and tried to show my Dad Ö and I couldnít find the autograph. It was gone. I had, of course, had Jim sign the paper in pencil (hey, I was 8, I had No. 2 pencils*). And as Iíve also mentioned, many years later, after I wrote this story for the first time, I got a baseball signed by Jim Kern. It read: ďJoe, hereís your autograph. Stop whining. Jim Kern.Ē It has a prominent place on my bar mantle, next to my Bill James bobblehead doll and a very large and unopened bottle of vodka that someone once gave me ó I donít drink vodka. That bottle will outlast us all.

*Iíve often thought about the No. 1 pencil. What a sad failure. There it was, first out of the gate, all the advantages in the world, and no, it couldnít hold on to the job, the Wally Pipp of pencils.

I also remember as a kid writing letters to my favorite players and also letter to every team in the big leagues. I think all kids should be forced to do something like that. It doesnít have to be baseball, but they should all be encouraged to write letters asking for stuff. Iím going to have my oldest daughter do that Ö sheís six and doesnít have much interest in baseball, but I donít care, she can write to the cast of High School Musical if she wants. Iím being slightly serious for a moment: I would say that writing those letters back then was just about as valuable a lesson as I ever learned as a child. It taught me stuff.

1. It taught me the proper and respectful way to make a request. This is pretty big. Thereís no doubt in my mind that kids today are much smarter, more savvy, more plugged in, better prepared for this crazy world that I was. BUT I am constantly surprised how often I will get a letter like this (and I promise you Iím not exaggerating):

Dear Joe,

I have to do this assignment in class where, like, I have to write about someone who has a job I would like to have. And even though I really donít agree with you much, and I donít really like your writing, you have a pretty cool job, so I need to ask you a few questions. Give me a call at this number or email me back.

That really is a pretty fair representation. Some letters/emails are slightly more pleasant ó most are more pleasant ó but some are actually worse, and a stunning number of them have that attitude. Hey, I donít MIND some 13 year old kid thinking he or she could do my job better than me, thatís great, thatís part of BEING 13, but you probably donít need to include that bit of info in letters requesting an actual FAVOR from somebody. I think this is a direct consequence of these people never writing autograph letters as kids.

2. It taught me that, with the right words and a little effort, people often WILL respond. Thatís an important lesson too Ö people (and companies) are approachable. I can remember getting packets of stickers from teams like the Blue Jays, and I remember getting a letter from Dale Murphy, and so on. Every mailbox day was a new adventure, and I think every kid should experience that (and also the disappointment of NOT getting back an autograph or letter ó thats part of life too). Years later, when I hit the crossroads of college and had no idea what to do with my life, I wrote bunches of letters to bunches of different people asking for professional advice. Iím convinced that is directly connected to writing those autograph letters as a kid. I got letters back from great people, from Bob Costas, from the people who ran Bill Mazeroski Baseball, from Joe Falls, from the good people at the baseball card magazine Beckett Monthly (my first sportswriting job!), a little later from my hero Leigh Montville. One of the letters I got back was from Frank Barrows, then the Sports Editor of The Charlotte Observer. Thatís how I got into this goofy business.

It all really comes back to my childhood autograph seeking. So, yes, Iím all for autographs.

That said, I did have it wired in my mind that autographs, like Trix, are for kids. Iím not passing judgment here Ö to be perfectly blunt, I have no problem with athletes, especially retired athletes, charging for their autograph. It gets tiresome signing your name again and again, and itís time consuming, and itís clear that autographs are worth some money in the free market. I think they deserve to get paid. And I also have no problem with adults spending as much as they want on autographs ó itís their money, and if collecting autographs is their thing, hey, there are worse hobbies. Iíve seen ďSilence of the Lambs.Ē But I will say I donít really get the thrill of paying for an autograph.

OK, so back to the original story. We drove down to get the Mickís autograph and see what this stuff was all about. This had to be around 1988 or Ď89 ó the Mick showed up, and he looked terrible. At least that was my impression. He was limping around, his shoulders were slumped, his eyes looked bloodshot. I had seen him up close once before, at the event where Costas crushed me, and he looked pretty beat up then. He looked even worse now.

And I watched him closely. I watched his response ó or lack of response ó when people got close to them. These were middle-aged men, for the most part, and they were almost in tears. Some could not even speak, they were so nervous. Some wanted to introduce Mantle to their sons (a couple who were named Mickey, if Iím not mistaken). Some went into long soliloquies about the real Yankee Stadium and watching the Mick hit home runs from both sides of the plate and how he was the most important person in their whole, entire lives.

Hereís what I remember most: There was something dead in Mantleís eyes. Maybe he was hung over. Maybe he was uninterested in being in Atlanta (or Richmond or Raleigh Ö I canít remember where we saw him ó which tells you something, heck, even I canít remember). Maybe, maybe, maybe Ö I just remember feeling so sad for Mickey Mantle. I suspected that he could not hear them anymore. He had heard too much. He was loved too much. The guy who was telling how Mantle had changed his life, well, he was about the 12 millionth person to say that to Mantle. The ones who had named his kid Mickey, well, lots of people had named their kid after the Mick. The people who saw Mantle and were taken back to a few childhood days from 1956, well, it seemed to me that Mantle could not hear them anymore. There was nothing left, nothing inspiring, nothing surprising, nothing new under the son.

You know when I thought about the Mick? Strange. I thought about him on my wedding day. We didnít have an especially big wedding, certainly by most standards, but we had a hundred people or so. And you know this if youíve been married: For that one day everyone wants to talk to you, everyone wants to know you, everyone wants to ask how you feel, everyone gathers around you ó itís numbing and confusing and you have to go here for a picture, go there for a dance, go back for a picture, hang out with the guys, check out how the parents are doing, talk to some relative you didnít know, tell a few stories, shake more hands, take another picture. Meanwhile everybodyís saying more or less the same thing to you, everyone is telling you some story about your childhood, and itís great, and itís exhausting, and itís numbing, and after a while I found that I simply couldnít see anymore, couldnít hear anymore, and I thought, ďthis in the smallest way must be what Mickey Mantle has felt every single day since 1955.Ē Imagine that ó having it be your wedding day. Forever.

I thought about the Mick at that card show one more time this week. I thought about it when Josh Hamilton ran out of the dugout for the beginning of the All-Star Game, ran out to Willie Mays, and was entirely unable to get his attention. Numerous people have wondered if Mays snubbed Hamilton, and maybe he did, I obviously donít know. In the first chapter of my book (still only $5.99!), I write about Willie Mays. Heís a tough character to sum up. Heís in pain, he has trouble seeing, he has some of the old Say Hey kid freshness, but he also seems to have a lot of bitterness that he canít quite let go.

Still, if I had to guess, I donít think he was snubbing Hamilton at all. I just think that he, like Mantle (though perhaps to a slightly lesser extent), has been living a perpetual wedding day. To quote the Boss, there were the same ghosts in his eyes. He seemed disoriented in the moment ó like a computer that simply powers itself off when there are too many things going on. The manís 77 years old. There were so many people surrounding him who were just honored to meet him, who wanted to tell him what a great man he is, who wanted to get his autograph. If you look at the video you see that Mays seems to be talking to someone else, and over the years I think heís learned in these sorts of moments to block out everything around him, to make himself deaf to the constant, ďThatís Willie Mays!Ē chatter that surrounds him, to turn off to the hero worship that can deaden you inside. I really do just think he shut down. And Hamilton, who was obviously dying to meet him, could not get him started up again, at least while the camera was on.

The day after the All-Star game, I heard a great story about Mays that more or less confirmed what I was thinking. It seems that sometimes during All-Star week, Kenny Rogers (of all people) ran up to Mays and asked for a couple of autographs. I donít know why Rogers was there, but this is the way I heard the story. Rogers introduced himself, Mays nodded, grumbled a hello, rather brusquely signed the autographs and started walking away. He was in the mode. If you had seen that scene, you might not have thought much of Willie Mays. But after he had taken a few steps, Mays suddenly stopped. He turned to someone and said, ďWait a minute! I know who that is. I just wish I could be younger, grab a bat, and take a few swings at the junk that guy throws.Ē

SandyD
07-18-2008, 08:42 AM
I'm not going to make a judgement based upon the few seconds while the camera was on them. Do we know what happened later?

hebroncougar
07-18-2008, 10:15 AM
Huh. At first I thought he looked angry, but then as I saw some of the other older guys limping around, I noticed Willie never moved a muscle, he just stood there with that scowl on his face. I realized I had seen that look before on my Dad, when he would stand up after his knees were shot, (before his knee replacement surgery,) and he was in so much pain all he could manage was to stand in one spot and use anger at his own body for not obeying him as a driving force to remain standing. I think they had Willie standing too long. If he was upset about his Godson, he would have never showed up. I think he was in pain. Did you see McCovey force himself to stand up from his wheelchair? The same heart that made them great players, makes them proud, stubborn old men. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/char124.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

That's kind of what I thought, angry. I don't know, I've never read a biography, etc. on Mays to know if he's mad about anything, and some other people are making points about him being in a "wedding day" type of stupor I suppose you could refer to it as. I just thought it was strange that you have McCovey trying to stand up out of a wheelchair, and Mays didn't look like he wanted to be there. Weird is all I was saying, and wondered if he was mad, because I know Bonds and Mays are close.

westofyou
07-18-2008, 11:13 AM
Mays nodded, grumbled a hello, rather brusquely signed the autographs and started walking away. He was in the mode. If you had seen that scene, you might not have thought much of Willie Mays. But after he had taken a few steps, Mays suddenly stopped. He turned to someone and said, “Wait a minute! I know who that is. I just wish I could be younger, grab a bat, and take a few swings at the junk that guy throws.”

And out of the fog our youth rises to meet our current state of mind.

If you have older folks in your family then you'll know that life is not always turned on to high. When you can't see that you might see it as something else, anger, arrogance, even fear.

What we don't know from one minute of video is what Mays was feeling or if he even knows who Josh Hamilton is.

So why pretend we do?