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improbus
07-15-2008, 09:22 PM
Does anything the Reds do make sense?

We are starting a youth movement, so what do we do?
-Hire Dusty, who love vets...
-Hire Jocketty, who loves vets and FA reclamation projects...
-Sign Arroyo (31) to an expensive four year deal
-Sign Cordero (33) to an expensive four year deal

Those all sound like the Reds classic "We are one player away" philosophy.

One final question:
I don't follow the minor leagues very closely, so do the Reds have any top notch talent to follow Votto, Bruce, and Cueto?

Blue
07-15-2008, 09:39 PM
I wonder who he might try to bring in as a free agent reclamation project this offseason? Maybe Rocco Baldelli? A option-declined Carl Crawford? Could be a cheap way to find a centerfielder.

Griffey012
07-15-2008, 09:47 PM
Every good team has a good closer. Rivera, KRod, Jenks, Lidge, Wood, etc...and we have one. Dusty has done very well IMO playing the young guns and not wearing out our pitchers, Bruce has been left in to fight through his bumps. The Arroyo signing at the time seemed like a pretty solid deal, especially with pitchers like Meche and Silva commanding 10+. As far as Jocketty, his FA reclamation projects will be a great attribute to fill in the holes between our young talent. In this day and age you have to have a good mix of Vets and Young guns if you are a small market team, look at the Twins. After this year we get a lot younger and fill a few holes with some young guys and some FA veterans.

But no, not everything this organization does makes sense, but I finally think we are heading in the right direction as compared "we are 1 piece away because we significantly overachieved with a less than talented roster the year before"

improbus
07-15-2008, 10:00 PM
The Arroyo signing at the time seemed like a pretty solid deal, especially with pitchers like Meche and Silva commanding 10+.
Just because other teams sign pitchers to stupid contract doesn't mean we need to. We made Bronson the 14th highest paid starting pitcher in the game. That means he should not only be an ace, but also better than 15 other aces. How are the Reds going to compete by making those kinds of decisions?

Griffey012
07-15-2008, 10:44 PM
Hampton, Tim Hudson, John Smoltz, Randy Johnson, Beckett, Zambrano, Buehrle, Vazquez, Contreras, Sabathia, Westbrook, Oswalt, Meche, Garland, Schmidt, Lowe, Sheets, Santana, Pedro, Pettite, Mussina, Pavano, Matt Morris, Greg Maddux, Zito, Carpenter, Padilla, Millwood, Burnett, and Halladay all make over 10 million dollars. Bronson makes slightly under 5 this season. I believe there are 30 pitchers right there who makes more than 10 million, and probably 75% of starting pitches who still aren't under arbitration rules make more than 5 million. Granted his salary escalates to 10 or 12 million next season, we basically were able to get a contract to where we left him underpaid for 2 years and get him well under market value for the final 2 extension years if he continues his all star type performance or even above average performance. Not to mention last year he did put up a 4.23 e.r.a. in a little league sized ball park, not great but still pretty darn good.

757690
07-15-2008, 10:46 PM
The Reds gave extensions to Arroyo and Harang at the same time at the beginning of the Cast ownership. Basically it was a way to show the fans that he was serious about and committed to winning.

Remember that the Linder ownership let every good player walk as soon as they started making big salaries. Signing Arroyo and Harang at that time was Cast's way of saying,
"I want to keep the good players on this team." Harang's contract seems like a good investment, Arroyo's not so much, but as a Reds fan who suffered through everyone of the miserable Linder years, I would not complain about them at all.

Eric Davis
07-15-2008, 11:00 PM
The Arroyo deal wasn't bad at all at the time. He had earned it with his performance and no he's not paid as one of the top starters in baseball.... not even close. He's obviously regressed since then but that wasn't necessarly something we could see coming. He may still turn it back around.

Same deal with Harang he hasn't performed up to his level this year but I have faith he will in the future. They also got a very club friendly deal on him.

Both moves were wise at the time. At this point it'd be good to move Arroyo as he doesn't seem to be improving but if they're forced to keep him he still has some value.

Blue
07-15-2008, 11:13 PM
The Arroyo resigning was totally unnecessary. They had a lot of time to further evaluate him.

ChatterRed
07-16-2008, 12:48 AM
I will admit that I liked both signings at the time.

Blue
07-16-2008, 12:58 AM
I will admit that I liked both signings at the time.

I don't remember how I felt at the time, haha.

improbus
07-16-2008, 08:07 AM
Here is my problem with the deal. We out-bid ourselves. Someone mentioned Silva and Meche above, they were both lured away from their former teams with big cash. We already had Arroyo, and we then we blew everyone else out of the water. That was a dumb contract.