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Newman4
07-19-2008, 01:37 PM
Keppinger SS OBP .351
Bruce CF
Phillips 2B SLG .470
Dunn LF SLG .542
EE 3B SLG .493
Votto 1B SLG .456
Griffey RF SLG .401
Ross C SLG .410

bgwilly31
07-19-2008, 01:44 PM
why dunn in the 4 spot?

He either needs to be 2 spot or further down the lineup.

But once again any convo's about lineups in which griffey in not third is a complete waste of time. As long as griffey is on the team. He will be in the 2 spot.


One things for sure. BRUCE CAN NOT LEAD OFF>

Blue
07-19-2008, 02:35 PM
No problem with Keppinger at leadoff until we find a better player.

Dunn should hit second or third.

Edwin should hit third or fourth.

Phillips should hit sixth.

Griffey should hit seventh or eighth.

AFalcon10
07-19-2008, 03:14 PM
Phillips should hit sixth.



Phillips has definitely earned his stripes as our 3 or 4 hitter. Theres no way he should be batting down in the lineup. He hits for average and power.. yeah his OBP is a lil lower than we would like but then again aren't most cleanup hitters'?

Blue
07-19-2008, 05:31 PM
Phillips has definitely earned his stripes as our 3 or 4 hitter. Theres no way he should be batting down in the lineup. He hits for average and power.. yeah his OBP is a lil lower than we would like but then again aren't most cleanup hitters'?

You don't earn your stripes as a cleanup hitter by having an OPS below .800 . His SLG is 4th among Reds regulars this season, and his OBP is 8th. Plus, he hits into a lot of DPs.

He's a fine player. Even if his defense were just average, his bat would make him an above average player at his position. As it is, he is a well above average player at is position, but he still shouldn't hit high in the order. However, if he ever becomes a more selective hitter he can be the perfect 3 hitter.

Newman4
07-19-2008, 05:51 PM
This is kind of an experiment to see how Dunn's numbers change surrounded by arguably the best hitters the Reds have in Bruce, Phillips,EE and Votto. I tried to balance the LH/RH too. Blue, you can't possibly hit BP 6th against LHP....1.094 OPS. I could see EE and BP flipped even in the everyday lineup.

Blue
07-19-2008, 06:19 PM
Blue, you can't possibly hit BP 6th against LHP....1.094 OPS.

You're right. However, I assumed that you were posting your lineup as the one that should be used all the time. Most of the time you face RHPs, and Phillips shouldn't hit high in the order against those guys.

mound_patrol
07-19-2008, 06:51 PM
Phillips would never hit above 5th in my lineup. He's too much of a free swinger. Let him go up and hack after other guys have gotten on base.

keeganbrick
07-19-2008, 06:54 PM
Phillips would never hit above 5th in my lineup. He's too much of a free swinger. Let him go up and hack after other guys have gotten on base.

Bruce and Griffey are just as bad.

mound_patrol
07-19-2008, 07:01 PM
Bruce and Griffey are just as bad.

Jr wouldn't hit higher than 7th in my lineup if he even played at all. With Bruce it's to early in his career to know where to hit him. Doesn't help that Dusty wants him up there hacking.

Griffey012
07-19-2008, 07:34 PM
Phillips would never hit above 5th in my lineup. He's too much of a free swinger. Let him go up and hack after other guys have gotten on base.

Would Vlad Guerrero never hit above 5th in your lineup either?

mound_patrol
07-19-2008, 07:41 PM
Vlad almost has a .400 OBP in his career vs Phillips and his .320 OBP. Vlad is an obvious choice to hit 3rd.

Griffey012
07-19-2008, 07:52 PM
So its more so than about BPhills OBP and not as much him being a free swinger, cuz Vlad is about as free swinging as they come.

Blue
07-19-2008, 07:56 PM
So its more so than about BPhills OBP and not as much him being a free swinger, cuz Vlad is about as free swinging as they come.

That's his rep, but I'm not sure its well earned. Anyone who walks as much as he does shouldn't be labeled a free swinger. Its probably a matter of being the best player is baseball at driving a pitch on the outside corner.

kpresidente
07-19-2008, 09:07 PM
That's his rep, but I'm not sure its well earned. Anyone who walks as much as he does shouldn't be labeled a free swinger. Its probably a matter of being the best player is baseball at driving a pitch on the outside corner.

Vlad is a free-swinger. His OBP is a result of him getting pitched around so much. Plus he hits for high average. That's the thing, you can be a free-swinger as long as you get a lot of hits (see Ichiro).

When you're a .270-.280 hitter like BP, you need to be more selective.

mound_patrol
07-19-2008, 10:17 PM
Vlad is a free-swinger. His OBP is a result of him getting pitched around so much. Plus he hits for high average. That's the thing, you can be a free-swinger as long as you get a lot of hits (see Ichiro).

When you're a .270-.280 hitter like BP, you need to be more selective.

You need to be able to recognize and lay off a slider off the plate. Right now that's something he can't do and right now he should be hitting down in the lineup.

BLEEDS
07-20-2008, 10:59 AM
Keppinger SS OBP .351
Bruce CF
Phillips 2B SLG .470
Dunn LF SLG .542
EE 3B SLG .493
Votto 1B SLG .456
Griffey RF SLG .401
Ross C SLG .410

Looks good against lefties.

BP just CANNOT be handed the 3/4 spot, with his numbers against RHP. It's PATHETIC!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
07-21-2008, 11:50 AM
Brandon Phillips' splits through yesterday:



G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
vL 57 120 20 42 6 3 9 27 9 10 8 1 0.35 0.397 0.675 1.072
vR 96 268 36 66 12 2 7 35 16 56 12 3 0.246 0.287 0.384 0.672



This is AFTER he went 2-4 with a homer and 2 RBI's.

PATHETIC .384 Slugging percentage, and a .672 OPS versus Righties.
Better than Keppinger and Patterson, but that's about it.

THIS is the guy you want to pencil in for your cleanup guy!?!??!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Nasty_Boy
07-21-2008, 02:43 PM
You can't talk about BP that way!

Cowboy and Doc are gonna be knocking at your door real quick!

swaisuc
07-21-2008, 03:40 PM
That's his rep, but I'm not sure its well earned. Anyone who walks as much as he does shouldn't be labeled a free swinger. Its probably a matter of being the best player is baseball at driving a pitch on the outside corner.

A few clicks over at fangraphs will show you that Vlad Guerrero swings at 60% of pitches and over 45% of pitches outside of the strike zone. Those numbers both lead the majors. Believe me that his rep is well-earned.

For reference, Phillips swings at 54% of pitches and 33% of pitches outside of the strike zone.

Also, I'm not sure where you're coming from on "who walks as much as he does". Vlad has 19 non-intentional walks this year from what I can see. Phillips has 22. Both are pathetically low.

UC_Ken
07-21-2008, 04:08 PM
I love BP's defense and think we got a pretty good deal when we signed him. I'm amazed at the amount of people who think that he is a great offensive player, he's not. His offense is above average for the position he plays but 1/2 hitters should be guys with high OBP and 3/4 hitters are guys with high OPS. Phillips does neither. He does have a high slugging percentage so I do like him behind some power hitters who get on base in front of him. I'd bat him 5th against LHP and 7th against RHP.

Blue
07-21-2008, 04:58 PM
A few clicks over at fangraphs will show you that Vlad Guerrero swings at 60% of pitches and over 45% of pitches outside of the strike zone. Those numbers both lead the majors. Believe me that his rep is well-earned.

For reference, Phillips swings at 54% of pitches and 33% of pitches outside of the strike zone.

Also, I'm not sure where you're coming from on "who walks as much as he does". Vlad has 19 non-intentional walks this year from what I can see. Phillips has 22. Both are pathetically low.

Okay, then. That's good enough for me!

BLEEDS
07-22-2008, 12:14 AM
A nice O-fer-4 tonight for Brandon!

Guess what side of the plate the starting pitcher threw from, and win a Kewpie Doll!

PEACE

-BLEEDS