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WVPacman
07-19-2008, 11:57 PM
Larkin's return to Cincinnati bitter and sweet for him

By Matt O'Donnell

Staff Writer

Sunday, July 20, 2008

CINCINNATI Barry Larkin had mixed emotions about returning to his hometown team, with which he played the entirety of his 19-year baseball career.

Larkin reluctantly left the Cincinnati Reds and retired from baseball at the end of the 2004 season after then-general manager Dan O'Brien did not offer him a contract.

Although he had the opportunity to play with the St. Louis Cardinals, Larkin took a job in the Washington Nationals' front office, where he has spent the past three seasons.

He made his first official post-retirement appearance in Great American Ball Park on Saturday, July 19, to be inducted into the Cincinnati Reds' Hall of Fame along with outfielder Cesar Geronimo, pitcher Joey Jay and front office executive Garry Herrmann.

Larkin received the loudest and longest ovation out of any of the current or former Reds' Hall of Fame inductees, which included Johnny Bench, Tony Perez and Davey Concepcion.

"It's bitter and it's sweet," Larkin said before the on-field ceremonies. "The hardest thing that I had to do was leave knowing that I wasn't coming back. It's been a great thrill for me to come back in this capacity."

Larkin was drafted by the Reds out of the University of Michigan in 1985 and made his Reds' debut in 1986. In his career Larkin hit .295 with 198 home runs, 960 RBIs and 379 stolen bases.

He won nine silver sluggers, three gold gloves and was named the National League's Most Valuable Player in 1995. He was also an integral part of the 1990 World Series championship team.

"I saw a lot of potential in him," Concepcion said. "He kept up the tradition of Dave Concepcion, Leo Cardenas and Roy McMillan."

Although he has switched organizations for the first time in his professional career, Larkin said he has stayed loyal to the Reds.

He has worn Washington National shirts, windbreakers and pants, but said the he has never worn another uniform.

When asked if he ever thought about returning the Reds, Larkin did not hesitate.

"There has been plenty of thought about coming back," Larkin said. "I never envisioned leaving Cincinnati at all, at any point.

"The opportunity just hasn't presented itself yet. I've been working with the Nationals for the last three years, but my contract is up at the end of the year, so I'll be a free agent."

Team owner Bob Castellini has been a strong advocate of bringing back former players in the past. And count second baseman Brandon Phillips as one of those hoping that Larkin returns.

"It'd be like a dream come true," Phillips said. "Just to ask him questions, pick his brain whenever I see him. It'd just be a beautiful thing."

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 12:06 AM
I really wish we had more players like Barry Larkin and I have been a big fan since he first came up to the big club, but tonight was just rediculous.

I've always known that Larkin had an ego, but it's enormous. He took a long time to thank everyone but the parking garage attendants. That's in stark contrast to Joey Jay (another of my childhood heroes) and Caesar Geronimo, who simply thanked the fans and the city of Cincinnati.

I have to believe he was lobbying for a job. His contract is up and he wants to come home. I'm sure Bob C will do just that and that would be good. Just don't give him the microphone again. It might take hours for him to announce a trade or a firing.

Chip R
07-20-2008, 12:08 AM
I really wish we had more players like Barry Larkin and I have been a big fan since he first came up to the big club, but tonight was just rediculous.

I've always known that Larkin had an ego, but it's enormous. He took a long time to thank everyone but the parking garage attendants. That's in stark contrast to Joey Jay (another of my childhood heroes) and Caesar Geronimo, who simply thanked the fans and the city of Cincinnati.

I have to believe he was lobbying for a job. His contract is up and he wants to come home. I'm sure Bob C will do just that and that would be good. Just don't give him the microphone again. It might take hours for him to announce a trade or a firing.


I was sitting out in RF and in the top of the 1st a fan yells at Jr., "Hey, Jr., when you get into the HOF, don't make your speech too ling." Jr. threw his head back and laughed and said, "Yeah, it won't be very long." :lol:

WVPacman
07-20-2008, 12:11 AM
Wow I hav'nt watched it yet and I did'nt know that he done that tonight.Im going to go check it out now and see how he acted but I really would like to see him in a reds uniform again along with alot more former reds players.

BCubb2003
07-20-2008, 12:13 AM
How about as broadcaster?

Cyclone792
07-20-2008, 12:19 AM
The length of the speech didn't bother me too much; he could have talked for 45 minutes and I wouldn't have cared much. I also really liked what he mentioned about the Stowe family, especially having Bernie Stowe come on out and be recognized. After all, Bernie Stowe has been making sure that no other player has been handed #11 even though Larkin's number isn't officially retired.

I did think it was odd that he mentioned a guy from Nike and Wilson, for whatever reason.

By the way, how about that national anthem tonight? That guy gave Roseanne a run for her money.

Spring~Fields
07-20-2008, 12:29 AM
The length of the speech didn't bother me too much; he could have talked for 45 minutes and I wouldn't have cared much. I also really liked what he mentioned about the Stowe family, especially having Bernie Stowe come on out and be recognized. After all, Bernie Stowe has been making sure that no other player has been handed #11 even though Larkin's number isn't officially retired.

I did think it was odd that he mentioned a guy from Nike and Wilson, for whatever reason.

By the way, how about that national anthem tonight? That guy gave Roseanne a run for her money.

I agree, the rest I just dismissed as being nervous with public speaking, which can be tough for any of us.

macro
07-20-2008, 01:19 AM
I didn't see the point of thanking the Nationals front office, especially naming them individually. What exactly did that have to do with tonight?

KronoRed
07-20-2008, 01:24 AM
I didn't see the point of thanking the Nationals front office, especially naming them individually. What exactly did that have to do with tonight?

Being nice to his current bosses, raise anyone? :D

Spring~Fields
07-20-2008, 01:26 AM
Being nice to his current bosses, raise anyone? :D

:thumbup: Job security.

Politics, trying to be diplomatic.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 01:27 AM
I didn't see the point of thanking the Nationals front office, especially naming them individually. What exactly did that have to do with tonight?
If you remember how he left, going into the stands and taking his bows there with half his uniform on. There is some bitterness there at the Reds at the time. He didn't want to leave. I have to respect him for wanting to be a Red and not wearing another uniform. His career was over and he took the job because he was lured by Leatherpants to "shove it" to the Reds. I think he regrets that now, but not enough lelt it go. He'll be back in some capacity someday, but that was not necessary.

Spring~Fields
07-20-2008, 01:31 AM
I didn't see the point of thanking the Nationals front office, especially naming them individually. What exactly did that have to do with tonight?

Yes,
That was an awkward part in his transition in the speech, he could have omitted that. Plus I think I heard him thank, GM, John Allen, :), That is why I chalked it up to being nervous with the public speaking.

Caveat Emperor
07-20-2008, 02:52 AM
I did think it was odd that he mentioned a guy from Nike and Wilson, for whatever reason.

Yeah, the mention of Nike & Wilson was odd -- especially the bit about taking his family on exotic trips. Not exactly what I'd call worthy of mention in a Hall of Fame speech, but it IS his speech and he should get to do whatever he wants.

I also wasn't a big fan of taking a shot at Reds management in the speech by thanking the Nationals and Jim Bowden for giving him a job after his playing days had ended; the implication being that the Reds hadn't done that, so Thank You Washington for stepping up to the plate in their stead.

icehole3
07-20-2008, 05:44 AM
Not that he cares what I think, not sure anyone cares what I think, I didnt agree with some of the things he did towards the end of his career (leaving early at the end of the last game of Trader Jack's tenure even though youre the captain of the team comes to mind) but his overall tenure with the Reds was classy and he represents Cincinnati very very well and he's a class act who deserves to be in the MLB hall of fame.

Chip R
07-20-2008, 08:49 AM
Not that he cares what I think, not sure anyone cares what I think, I didnt agree with some of the things he did towards the end of his career (leaving early at the end of the last game of Trader Jack's tenure even though youre the captain of the team comes to mind) but his overall tenure with the Reds was classy and he represents Cincinnati very very well and he's a class act who deserves to be in the MLB hall of fame.


Well said. :thumbup:

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 11:05 AM
I'm sure Bob Castellini was paying attention....

Barry Larkin will be back...and he should be. Like icehole said, some of the stuff he did toward the end was a bit irratable, but he is and always will be one of my favorite players ever.

Unassisted
07-20-2008, 11:23 AM
Since I despise toadying, I'm glad I missed this.

Caseyfan21
07-20-2008, 11:29 AM
Yeah, the mention of Nike & Wilson was odd -- especially the bit about taking his family on exotic trips. Not exactly what I'd call worthy of mention in a Hall of Fame speech, but it IS his speech and he should get to do whatever he wants.

I also wasn't a big fan of taking a shot at Reds management in the speech by thanking the Nationals and Jim Bowden for giving him a job after his playing days had ended; the implication being that the Reds hadn't done that, so Thank You Washington for stepping up to the plate in their stead.

I guess I can understand where he was coming from with the Nike and Wilson stuff. By all accounts, Larkin is an incredibly loyal guy. It just makes sense to me that Larkin would highly value someone who is incredibly loyal to him. Wasn't Barry the guy who would have a game glove and another BP glove? And he would work in another glove during BP for an entire year before he would even use it in a game? Maybe I'm confusing him with another player but I thought I always heard he was incredibly careful and attached to his gloves. If his glove was that big of a deal to him you can bet the men providing that glove and the maintenance on the glove would be incredibly important to him.

I actually enjoyed the thanking of the Nationals. By all accounts everyone wants Larkin in Cincinnati including himself. The Reds management messed up and didn't bring him back instead letting him walk to Washington. I thought that shot was great because the Reds management (at the time in 2004) had no one to blame but themselves for letting him leave. The average fan probably doesn't realize that and maybe Larkin thanking the Nationals for giving him a chance might clear that up. Who really knows though.

icehole3
07-20-2008, 11:46 AM
IMO he should at least be working with infielders in the minors like Browning and Soto are with the young pitching, its wasting a guy who is a walking talking professor on baseball, just like Pete.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 11:49 AM
He speaks Spanish too...which can always help

fearofpopvol1
07-20-2008, 01:11 PM
Anyone know if there is a link to watch this somewhere?

Jpup
07-20-2008, 01:18 PM
Why hasn't Barry Larkin's number been retired? I thought they might surprise us with that this weekend.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 01:23 PM
Doc:

This is a no-brainer. His contract with the Nationals ends after this year. His influence is needed here. Larkin, to me, embodied Team. I had the privilege of watching 16 of his 18 seasons here. Guy did everything he was called upon to do. When the Reds had meat in the middle of the order, he batted leadoff. When they needed him to play power ball, he hit 3rd and had 33 homers, in 1996. He was an artist with the glove -- B. Phillips' forefather. When they needed a grounder to the right side, Larkin did it. Sacrifice? Ditto.

When things needed to be said regarding the club's commitment to winning, Larkin said them, but only rarely and never loudly.

There were blemishes: He could be very political. He and Greg Vaughn led the campaign to get Jack McKeon fired, and he shouldnt have left the last game of the 2000 season before it ended. But these were blips on a Hall of Fame career that was marked by routine, low-key excellence.

The Reds could use his example now.

Time to bring Barry home.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 02:07 PM
Time to bring Barry home.

And they will. Put it in the bank.

MartyFan
07-20-2008, 02:30 PM
Not that he cares what I think, not sure anyone cares what I think, I didnt agree with some of the things he did towards the end of his career (leaving early at the end of the last game of Trader Jack's tenure even though youre the captain of the team comes to mind) but his overall tenure with the Reds was classy and he represents Cincinnati very very well and he's a class act who deserves to be in the MLB hall of fame.

I agree...Judged on the entirety of his career to this day he has been great for the Reds...the few incidents of him taking the off the field political BS on the field can be looked over though they did bother me at the time they were going on.

cincinnati chili
07-20-2008, 04:25 PM
I didn't see the point of thanking the Nationals front office, especially naming them individually. What exactly did that have to do with tonight?

I'm a huge Larkin proponent, but this mention was both irrelevant and low class. It's a clear dig at the Reds organization, on a night where they were honoring him. It's also symptomatic of the sense of entitlement and arrested social development that a lot big time sports stars exude, after being worshiped as heroes throughout their adult life.

Larkin's last contract with the Reds was for $27 million. Given the way he performed, the Reds don't owe him a penny more.

Put him in the hall of fame (the real one, not just the Reds one) on the first ballot. Remember him as a tremendous, and vastly UNDER-rated player, but don't think about giving him a job within the organization until he shows better judgment.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 05:35 PM
Don't be mad at Larkin for the contract...anybody would have signed it...

Lindner didn't have to give it to him, and he did it because there was an uproar from the fans to keep him in Cincinnati

cincinnati chili
07-20-2008, 05:53 PM
Don't be mad at Larkin for the contract...anybody would have signed it...


Oh, not mad at all. I just think he has a lot of nerve taking passive aggressive digs at the Reds, and implying that the Reds owe him something.

They don't.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 05:54 PM
Fair point.

I'd still love to see him back here in some role - player development perhaps...

Reds4Life
07-20-2008, 06:02 PM
I'm a huge Larkin proponent, but this mention was both irrelevant and low class. It's a clear dig at the Reds organization, on a night where they were honoring him. It's also symptomatic of the sense of entitlement and arrested social development that a lot big time sports stars exude, after being worshiped as heroes throughout their adult life.

Larkin's last contract with the Reds was for $27 million. Given the way he performed, the Reds don't owe him a penny more.

Put him in the hall of fame (the real one, not just the Reds one) on the first ballot. Remember him as a tremendous, and vastly UNDER-rated player, but don't think about giving him a job within the organization until he shows better judgment.

I agree 100%. I'm not convinced that Larkin's attitude is a good fit for this organization.

Unassisted
07-20-2008, 06:21 PM
I'm a huge Larkin proponent, but this mention was both irrelevant and low class. It's a clear dig at the Reds organization, on a night where they were honoring him.
I'm the opposite of a huge Larkin proponent, but I was figuring that the mention of Nats personnel was an attempt to show gratitude to the first origanization to hire him after his playing career ended. Throwing them a bone, so that their fans don't react as Reds fans do every time Bronson Arroyo mentions Boston, probably seemed like good politics.

I doubt it was a dig at the Reds. To me it sounded like toadying.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 06:35 PM
I'm the opposite of a huge Larkin proponent, but I was figuring that the mention of Nats personnel was an attempt to show gratitude to the first origanization to hire him after his playing career ended. Throwing them a bone, so that their fans don't react as Reds fans do every time Bronson Arroyo mentions Boston, probably seemed like good politics.

I doubt it was a dig at the Reds. To me it sounded like toadying.The only problem I had was the length and the mention of the Nationals. That was a dig at the former organization, which was inappropiate at the time. But it's over and who cares. He was a great player and if he wants to come back, so be it, but I see bitterness that I hope goes away when he does work for the Reds.

Caveat Emperor
07-20-2008, 06:36 PM
I'm the opposite of a huge Larkin proponent, but I was figuring that the mention of Nats personnel was an attempt to show gratitude to the first organization to hire him after his playing career ended.

Not a chance.

The context in which it was given was a clear shot at the Reds former front office and ownership -- thanking the Nationals and Jim Bowden for giving him the "flexibility" to continue being involved in the game after his playing days had ended.

Put it this way -- he didn't thank anyone from Moeller or the University of Michigan (places he actually played), but found a way to name-drop the Nationals ownership group and one of the more reviled former GMs in Reds history. He had a message to send, and he sent it on a day that should've been a "let the past be the past" type of celebration.

George Anderson
07-20-2008, 06:44 PM
He had a message to send, and he sent it on a day that should've been a "let the past be the past" type of celebration.

Not suprising about Barry.

If people remember he never got over replacement player Rick Reed.

Reds4Life
07-20-2008, 06:44 PM
Not a chance.

The context in which it was given was a clear shot at the Reds former front office and ownership -- thanking the Nationals and Jim Bowden for giving him the "flexibility" to continue being involved in the game after his playing days had ended.

Put it this way -- he didn't thank anyone from Moeller or the University of Michigan (places he actually played), but found a way to name-drop the Nationals ownership group and one of the more reviled former GMs in Reds history. He had a message to send, and he sent it on a day that should've been a "let the past be the past" type of celebration.

From many accounts, his attitude the last few years was more of a problem in the clubhouse than an asset. Ask Jack McKeon how much of a team player Barry was. Personally, I would not bring him back in any capacity. Barry seems to believe that he is bigger than the organization, that is not what we need.

Big Klu
07-20-2008, 07:00 PM
Not a chance.

The context in which it was given was a clear shot at the Reds former front office and ownership -- thanking the Nationals and Jim Bowden for giving him the "flexibility" to continue being involved in the game after his playing days had ended.

Put it this way -- he didn't thank anyone from Moeller or the University of Michigan (places he actually played), but found a way to name-drop the Nationals ownership group and one of the more reviled former GMs in Reds history. He had a message to send, and he sent it on a day that should've been a "let the past be the past" type of celebration.

He also admonished the crowd, telling them that they couldn't boo Jim Bowden.

Personally, I think it was tasteless to boo the mention of Bowden in the context of the ceremonial atmosphere at the ballpark--neither Larkin, Geronimo, Jay, nor Herrmann's family should have had to hear any booing during their big moment. But it was just as tasteless to mention Jimbo in the first place, knowing that his name would likely garner such a response.

Chip R
07-20-2008, 07:16 PM
From many accounts, his attitude the last few years was more of a problem in the clubhouse than an asset. Ask Jack McKeon how much of a team player Barry was. Personally, I would not bring him back in any capacity. Barry seems to believe that he is bigger than the organization, that is not what we need.


I think Barry is intelligent enough to know that his influence as a front office type would be much less than it was as a player. We don't see Bench or Senior or any other former player dictating policy and I don't think Barry would be any different. I don't think he wants to be a coach or a manager since he enjoys spending time with his family and he doesn't seem to want the aggrevation of that kind of a job. But there's nothing horrible about him being around ST, helping the kids out, etc.

I think it was unfortunate that the Reds didn't keep Larkin around but I think it was necessary at the time and I'm a big Larkin fan. At the time Barry still thought he could play every day despite the evidence to the contrary. Usually the player is the last to know when they are ready to retire - much like Brett Favre and Roger Clemens. Unfortunately it's the organization that usually has to make that call. Sometimes, as in the case of Favre, the organization is doing it to show the player, other players and other organizations that even though they have lost a lot of power over the last 30-some years, they still have some muscle left and will use it when they can. I hoped that the Reds could have sat down with Barry and told him that they would not bring him back as a player but they would love to have him with the organization in some capacity. Perhaps that's what happened and Barry wasn't willing to give up the ghost yet. Perhaps the Reds were just as pig-headed and wouldn't deign to meet with a player - even a player of Barry's stature - to discuss their future.

The past is past and if the Reds are as serious as they say they are about having former players help them out, they will bring him back.

Phhhl
07-20-2008, 10:00 PM
I think Barry used the opportunity to give the retirement speech he never had an opportunity to give when his last contract ran out. His ego played a huge part in that, but so what? Most of these guys are like that. I think it showed that his feelings for the city and the organization ran deep, despite the cool demeanor he often displayed in front of the camera during his career. He wants to be remembered as one of the greats ever to wear the Reds uniform, and justifiably so because he is. I don't begrudge him at all for speaking from his heart.

He would be an asset to the Reds if he rejoins us in the future.

cumberlandreds
07-21-2008, 07:29 AM
He also admonished the crowd, telling them that they couldn't boo Jim Bowden.

Personally, I think it was tasteless to boo the mention of Bowden in the context of the ceremonial atmosphere at the ballpark--neither Larkin, Geronimo, Jay, nor Herrmann's family should have had to hear any booing during their big moment. But it was just as tasteless to mention Jimbo in the first place, knowing that his name would likely garner such a response.


I agree with you. It was tastless thing for Larkin to bring up at this moment. IMO,he has burned every bridge to ever come back to the Reds. But I'd rather nor have him around if he has this much animosity anyway. He can stay here in DC and rot away with Bowden.

Redsfaithful
07-21-2008, 01:17 PM
He also admonished the crowd, telling them that they couldn't boo Jim Bowden.

He was clearly kidding, and was half laughing when he said this.

I swear sometimes, Cincinnati fans will find a reason to hate anyone. Some of the worst fans in sports, right up there with Philadelphia's. I was there on Saturday night, and Larkin could have talked as long as he wanted. That's who most of the fans were there to see, so what does it matter?

And yeah the Reds should have hired Larkin in some capacity. Its an ignorant organization that doesn't want to utilize past talent, but that was the Dan O'Brien Reds for you. Thank god those days are over.

cincinnati chili
07-21-2008, 02:27 PM
He was clearly kidding, and was half laughing when he said this.


This is the first I've heard that his tongue was in cheek. Anyone have a link to the video?

Gotta say I'm skeptical that he was kidding, but realize that sometimes what's on the page doesn't do justice to what was said.

GAC
07-21-2008, 05:11 PM
Barry Larkin was one heck of a ballplayer, and one of the best SSs to ever wear a Reds uni. Even Bill James has stated such. ;)

But lets separate the ballplayer from a guy who is now seeking some sort of gainful employment (advancement) somewhere within an organization's FO.

Is simply being a ballplayer, and a good one at that, all of a sudden qualify one to step into a FO job at some sort of capacity?

Barry has stated he'd like to be a coach, yet then states that he didn't want to do it at the farm system level because of the low pay.

Is Barry hurting for money? Is the money such a big issue for him that it interferes with his passion... or for that matter, keeps a "door" from opening for him... of possibly coaching or working somewhere in the coaching ranks? Shouldn't he be expected to pay his dues in that particular area, and work his way up?

There are a lot of guys, espcially former ballplayers, who are doing just that. They wanted to stay (work) within the game in some sort of fashion since their playing days are over, and they didn't seem to have any qualms about the "sacrifice" needed, on their part, in order to fulfill that goal.

He has also said he'd like to be a GM some day.

I don't think Barry Larkin knows what Barry Larkin wants. He keeps sending mixed signals of what he wants to do. He has also said he'd like to work with the younger players.

If Barry Larkin wants to work within the Red's organization somewhere, whether it's at the coaching or FO capacity, then why not offer him a job at Louisville or Dayton? He'd still be very close to home.

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong, because I could really care less what happens with Barry Larkin. People act like it's some sort of great injustice, that he is really being wronged, because he's not working within the Red's structure somewhere. The same can be said of a lot of former Red greats. It just seems to me that Barry wants a position, and it somehow should be awarded based on the fact he is Barry Larkin.

But I'd love to see the Red's brass offer him a position at Louisville or Dayton and see how he responds to it.

Redsfaithful
07-21-2008, 08:35 PM
This is the first I've heard that his tongue was in cheek. Anyone have a link to the video?

Gotta say I'm skeptical that he was kidding, but realize that sometimes what's on the page doesn't do justice to what was said.

I was there, and that's how I interpreted it I guess. The thanks to Bowden was genuine, I just mean the "now now you can't boo" thing was kidding around. I'm pretty sure he anticipated the reaction. He certainly wasn't stern or upset sounding when he said it.

REDREAD
07-21-2008, 09:52 PM
I also wasn't a big fan of taking a shot at Reds management in the speech by thanking the Nationals and Jim Bowden for giving him a job after his playing days had ended; the implication being that the Reds hadn't done that, so Thank You Washington for stepping up to the plate in their stead.

I didn't hear the speech, but how is that a shot at the Reds?

If Jr thanks someone in the Mariners organization, is that a shot at the Reds?

If Pete mentioned Philly or Montreal, would that be considered a shot?

Not directed at you Caveat, but I think Cincy fans have an inferiority complex. All the writers are out to get them, everyone is trying to slam them.
Perhaps Larkin was genuinely thankful for getting the chance to get a front office job, and it coincidently had nothing to do with the Reds.

If he did thank John Allen as another poster said, then surely he was simply trying to be diplomatic and thank everyone in his speech. That's probably why he thanked the manufacturers as well. He was probably trying very hard not to slight anyone, because he's a nice guy.

REDREAD
07-21-2008, 09:54 PM
Why hasn't Barry Larkin's number been retired? I thought they might surprise us with that this weekend.


I guess they want to milk another big attendence day out of it in another season...

Unassisted
07-21-2008, 09:57 PM
Why hasn't Barry Larkin's number been retired? I thought they might surprise us with that this weekend.Don't Reds number retirements usually wait until after the player is inducted into the HOF?

REDREAD
07-21-2008, 10:10 PM
But lets separate the ballplayer from a guy who is now seeking some sort of gainful employment (advancement) somewhere within an organization's FO.

Barry can't win though. If the press asked him if he wanted to come back to Cincy and he said "No, I'm perfectly happy in Washington", he'd be hated too.
Like you say later, Barry doesn't need a job from anyone. He's set financially for life. He's only still in the game because he enjoys it. He has other business ventures to keep himself busy if there's no FO opportunities.
Maybe the guy just genuinely wants to come back because he thinks he can help rebuld the club?






Barry has stated he'd like to be a coach, yet then states that he didn't want to do it at the farm system level because of the low pay.


Isn't that being honest though? If you were independently wealthy, would you accept a full time job that paid $1/hour, had a big time commitment, a lot of travel, and kept you away from your family? Probably not. If Barry isn't interested in working in the minors, why do you hold that against him.
Likewise, if the Reds don't want to give Barry a FO job, I'm not going to complain. I really don't care one way or another.






He has also said he'd like to be a GM some day.


I don't think Barry Larkin knows what Barry Larkin wants. He keeps sending mixed signals of what he wants to do. He has also said he'd like to work with the younger players.


IIRC, after he was hired by Washington, a reporter asked him if he wanted to be a GM someday... Again, he can't win. If he says "No", people will complain that he shouldn't be taking up a FO job or that his heart isn't in it. If he says "Yes", people say he's arrogant to expect that job someday...

Many players have begun their coaching/managing career at the ML level.
No one complained when Rose and Perez were given manager jobs without any minor league experience. I'm not sure if coaches like Marino Duncan and Billy Hatcher worked their way through the minors or not.. I think Oester did.. Some do, some don't...





If I'm wrong then I'm wrong, because I could really care less what happens with Barry Larkin. People act like it's some sort of great injustice, that he is really being wronged, because he's not working within the Red's structure somewhere.


I do agree that after his playing career was over, the Reds really didn't owe him anything. Although I'd like to see him in the Reds FO because I feel he's very bright and has a lot to offer, it doesn't matter hugely to me one way or another.




The same can be said of a lot of former Red greats. It just seems to me that Barry wants a position, and it somehow should be awarded based on the fact he is Barry Larkin.

Some fans may have that attitude, but I don't think Larkin does. When has Larkin ever complained about it? When asked, he says "Sure, I'd like to come to Cincy someday".. when has he ever said that he's entitled to anything..

It's not as if he seeks out the beat writers and gets them to write stories lobbying for a job for him...




But I'd love to see the Red's brass offer him a position at Louisville or Dayton and see how he responds to it.

See, when you say that, it seems like you do care. You want to see Barry humbled or humilated or whatever. You want proof of your opinion..

Krusty
07-22-2008, 10:39 AM
Does anyone think that old Leather Pants in Washington could be getting the axe as GM after the season and Larkin is looking for his next job?

WVRed
07-22-2008, 01:04 PM
Does anyone think that old Leather Pants in Washington could be getting the axe as GM after the season and Larkin is looking for his next job?

Larkin's contract runs out anyways.

I have a feeling the Nats will be trying to get somebody with Braves influence, since Stan Kasten is the President for the Nationals.

GAC
07-23-2008, 08:17 PM
Barry can't win though. If the press asked him if he wanted to come back to Cincy and he said "No, I'm perfectly happy in Washington", he'd be hated too.

He has had no problem using that media to his advantage in the past. ;)


Like you say later, Barry doesn't need a job from anyone. He's set financially for life. He's only still in the game because he enjoys it.... Maybe the guy just genuinely wants to come back because he thinks he can help rebuild the club?

The he needs to make up his mind then as to what aspect of the game he wants to work in?.... upper managment or coaching.

But either way, if he really enjoys it (and I'm not questioning that), then he shouldn't be afraid to have to pay his dues... and that may mean taking a position/ starting at the bottom tier, whether it's in coaching or the FO, and work his way up. Not be expected to be given a position simply because he's Barry Larkin, or that certain criteria must be met to accomodate him before he'll take the position.

Sure - he can make those demands. But the employer doesn't have to hire him either.



Isn't that being honest though? If you were independently wealthy, would you accept a full time job that paid $1/hour, had a big time commitment, a lot of travel, and kept you away from your family? Probably not. If Barry isn't interested in working in the minors, why do you hold that against him.

#1.... he is the one who said he'd like to work with the younger players. You find those in the farm system for the most part. ;)

And as you stated - he is financially set, so money shouldn't be an issue if that is really his passion, to work with the youngtsers. Yet he said money was an issue as to why he doesn't do it.

#2.... If he was offered a position in Louisville or Dayton, whether in coaching or the FO in some capacity, then he could be home every night with his family.

Likewise, if the Reds don't want to give Barry a FO job, I'm not going to complain. I really don't care one way or another.



See, when you say that, it seems like you do care. You want to see Barry humbled or humilated or whatever. You want proof of your opinion..

No. I still could care less. I made that statement because I'd love to see what Barry's response would be to the offer. If he took the position, whatever it would be, then it's getting him "in the door" and could provide him an opportunity for advancement within the organization, as well as bringing him back to his home here in Cincy.

But if he says no... and it would depend on the reasoning for the refusal too.... it may also confirm what a lot already believe (think) about Larkin... sure, I want to come back. But it will only be on my terms.

When you're seeking a job position, the perspective hiree doesn't set the demands IF he wants to get hired.

Chip R
07-23-2008, 08:55 PM
#2.... If he was offered a position in Louisville or Dayton, whether in coaching or the FO in some capacity, then he could be home every night with his family.


Not really since he lives in Florida.

WebScorpion
07-24-2008, 09:13 AM
Not really since he lives in Florida.
Yea, he'd need a job in Sarasota and who knows how long we'll have a team there with the ST move to Arizona coming. Of course, he'd probably be good for a couple seasons and then move up to something higher. What I'm guessing will actually happen will be that he gets one of those 'special adviser' jobs and hangs around with the Major Leaguers who know him so well.

GAC
07-24-2008, 08:54 PM
Not really since he lives in Florida.

That's a good point.

And the last I looked - the Washington Nat's job as a special consultant to ol' leatherpants ain't exactly located anywhere near Florida either. Unless he's running up one heck of a long distance phone bill. ;)

I'm just assuming, since Barry is the one saying he'd like to come back to Cincy in some shape or fashion, and that he does have ties there, that his family would have a residency of some sort there since being close to family is important to him. And Louisville and/or Dayton are easily within that locale.

Chip R
07-25-2008, 11:16 AM
That's a good point.

And the last I looked - the Washington Nat's job as a special consultant to ol' leatherpants ain't exactly located anywhere near Florida either. Unless he's running up one heck of a long distance phone bill. ;)

I'm just assuming, since Barry is the one saying he'd like to come back to Cincy in some shape or fashion, and that he does have ties there, that his family would have a residency of some sort there since being close to family is important to him. And Louisville and/or Dayton are easily within that locale.


It's a helluva lot closer to Florida than Cincinnati is. Besides, we don't know how much time he spends in D.C. He may be like Soto and spend most of his time at home and every once in awhile he joins the big club. That's not to say he can't do that here but it's not like he's going to move back in with Mom and Dad.

GAC
07-25-2008, 07:43 PM
It's a helluva lot closer to Florida than Cincinnati is.

Washington, D.C.? No it's not. It's 755 miles from Cincy to Orlando. 758 miles from D.C. to Orlando. ;)

KronoRed
07-25-2008, 08:56 PM
Another thing to consider is, the Nats spring train in Florida and appear to be staying there, the Reds are headed out west in a few years.

GAC
07-25-2008, 09:13 PM
Another thing to consider is, the Nats spring train in Florida and appear to be staying there, the Reds are headed out west in a few years.

It's not like Barry would be the only one expected to travel. A lot of guys involved in the game in many different aspects miss their families because of having to be on the road. It's the nature of the beast. ;)