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adampad
07-20-2008, 01:46 PM
Barry's speech pissed me off. The thanking of the Nationals was clearly shot at the Reds. Sure the Reds management has been awful in the past but seem to finally be moving the right direction, but you don't make a comment like that just because your bitter. Especially if you want to come back like you say you do. And why honor the Wilson and Nike guys? I don't think Barry understands marketing and business at all (unless Nike and Wilson are still giving him some kinda cut). The end of Barry's career was also a little shaky, with the McKeon thing and all. Raise your hand if you wish Barry hadn't ran off McKeon. Remember who the Reds could have gotten in a trade for a near retirement Barry Larkin? Now, what would you as the Reds fan rather have; A: A good young exciting shortstop for years to come or B: Loyal Barry Larking who wants to play a little longer for the Reds and finish his career with his one and only. But Barry used his no trade clause, probably because "he is so loyal". Blah. Loyality isn't what I think about when I think Barry Larkin. I think of a guy who's afraid of change and misunderstands a professional relationship with friendship. Also, if he loves Cincy so much, why does has he been living in Florida during the off-season?

Anyway, I'm just annoyed. Did anyone see Bench's reaction to Barry's speech going overtime? I was excited to see Bench toss out a first pitch against the Red Sox a while back, until I realized he had a book to promote. But anyway...they where both great players.

lidspinner
07-20-2008, 02:06 PM
this is how the whole Barry Larking Saga breaks down:

if you dont follow the "behind the scenes" part of baseball then you love Barry Larkin.

If you do follow everything from the minor leagues to whhere the owner eats lunch, then you have some sort of hatred built up for BL.

there is clearly a divided line of Reds fans that LOVE this guy more than any past reds player. My mom is one of them, she loves Barry Larking more than she loves my dad...BUT...she also has no idea who and what andwhy anything behind the scenes that goes on, she thinks Joe Nuxhall is still broadcasting. I personally feel BL is a true Red at heart but he is no differnt than any other primadonna baseball player, he thinks he is bigger than the game. I will never forget him telling the media that he dont care who he plays for or how much he makes as long as he is playing for a winner, then he goes and handcuffs the organization with a 9 mill contract. To me that just showed why he is no difference from Barry Larking to Barry Bonds.

TC81190
07-20-2008, 02:45 PM
this is how the whole Barry Larking Saga breaks down:

if you dont follow the "behind the scenes" part of baseball then you love Barry Larkin.

If you do follow everything from the minor leagues to whhere the owner eats lunch, then you have some sort of hatred built up for BL.

there is clearly a divided line of Reds fans that LOVE this guy more than any past reds player. My mom is one of them, she loves Barry Larking more than she loves my dad...BUT...she also has no idea who and what andwhy anything behind the scenes that goes on, she thinks Joe Nuxhall is still broadcasting. I personally feel BL is a true Red at heart but he is no differnt than any other primadonna baseball player, he thinks he is bigger than the game. I will never forget him telling the media that he dont care who he plays for or how much he makes as long as he is playing for a winner, then he goes and handcuffs the organization with a 9 mill contract. To me that just showed why he is no difference from Barry Larking to Barry Bonds.
The irony of this post, you claim to follow behind the scenes in baseball so much, and yet you refer to Barry Larkin as "Larking" several times. If you follow so closely, I would think you would know the name of the best Reds player in the past 20 years.

I would address your post further, but you clearly hold some kind of bias against him that isn't worth arguing against, which is shown by the preposterous Bonds comparison.

tsj017
07-20-2008, 02:49 PM
"First and most of all, I'd like to thank Jim Bowden for enabling my front office career, even while I was still playing."

ChatterRed
07-20-2008, 03:59 PM
"First and most of all, I'd like to thank Jim Bowden for enabling my front office career, even while I was still playing."

Mentioning/thanking Jim Bowden in any situation just makes the speaker look stupid.

I've learned more than I wanted to know about Barry Larkin in the last year.

1. Heard from a reliable source that Carl Lindner's biggest regret was signing BL to that $9 million contract. Thought he was doing what the fans wanted, but found out later it was a big mistake.

2. Heard from reliable sources that BL was a huge cancer in the clubhouse in his later years.

3. Heard that BL and KGJ had alot of animosity toward Sean Casey. Apparently didn't like how good Sean was to the fans and resented him for it. They tried to rule the clubhouse and certain young players, including Casey, did their own thing (the right thing).

4. Heard from reliable source that BL had a huge negative impact on the attitudes of Dunn and Kearns when they first came up.

5. Heard that the Reds don't want anything to do with Barry Larkin and his primadonna attitude.

Ghosts of 1990
07-20-2008, 05:00 PM
I hope Lark enjoyed yesterday's Reds Hall induction ceremony. It's the only Hall of Fame he'll ever be part of.

redsfan1966
07-20-2008, 07:54 PM
I was in attendance on Saturday and found Barry's speech to be at the very least, weird. It almost was as if Barry was campaigning to be a part of the Reds front office or heck, maybe even the President of the US....overall, though, the Hall of Fame festivities were fun...

redsfanmia
07-20-2008, 08:30 PM
I hope Lark enjoyed yesterday's Reds Hall induction ceremony. It's the only Hall of Fame he'll ever be part of.

I am not so sure about that. Why hate on Larkin?

blark11
07-20-2008, 09:42 PM
while the speech was a little long, it was definitely heartfelt, cut the guy some slack

ChatterRed
07-21-2008, 01:09 AM
Yeah, he sure cut the Reds some slack when he whined for his $9 mill contract when he clearly was on the downside of his career.

The Reds and Bengals need to quit with these "loyalty" contracts. It just kills the team with nonquality payroll. Big Willie on the Bengals was a loyalty signing that has not panned out.

lidspinner
07-21-2008, 08:20 AM
The irony of this post, you claim to follow behind the scenes in baseball so much, and yet you refer to Barry Larkin as "Larking" several times. If you follow so closely, I would think you would know the name of the best Reds player in the past 20 years.

I would address your post further, but you clearly hold some kind of bias against him that isn't worth arguing against, which is shown by the preposterous Bonds comparison.

first of all my fellow red fan, when you post from a at&t Tilt, the phone puts letters where they think they should be, if I hit the space bar to quick then I often times mispell words without knowing. It also does not spell check for me without me telling it to. I have broke bread with Barrie Larking pal, I know his name. I also know that he is arrogant to the average fan. I also know he has no respect for the reds organization and if you talk to ANYONE in baseball, they will tell you that Berry Larkeing has NO RESPECT for the reds. With that said........Bare Lrkain is one of my favorite PLAYERS, not player/persons, PLAYERS that has ever doned the Reds uniform. I will wear my BL jersey with a smile on my face each and every time I wear it. I do however, have a small bone to pick with him but that does not stop me form enjoying his on the diamond accomplishments.

bounty37h
07-21-2008, 01:01 PM
[QUOTE=ChatterRed;1698482]Mentioning/thanking Jim Bowden in any situation just makes the speaker look stupid.

Irony that you mentioned his name in your first sentance then; after all, you did say ANY situation makes the speaker look stupid...

Redskinalum02
07-21-2008, 02:22 PM
Yeah, he sure cut the Reds some slack when he whined for his $9 mill contract when he clearly was on the downside of his career.

The Reds and Bengals need to quit with these "loyalty" contracts. It just kills the team with nonquality payroll. Big Willie on the Bengals was a loyalty signing that has not panned out.

Say what you want about the 3yr/9m contract, but he also took a hometown discount in the years preceding that contract.

HUHUH
07-21-2008, 03:21 PM
I loved Larkin as a SS, but have always had serious problems with his off-the-field behavior. The McKeown thing being the biggest example. I have another memory of a Larkin-ism, but cannot find anyone to substantiate it. Do any of you remember this?

It was the late 80's (87?) when Larkin was vying with Kurt Stillwell during spring training for the SS position. There was talk of moving one of them to 2nd. Larkin was quoted as saying "I won't play second base", or something to that effect. I remember this because I thought "what is this rookie doing telling people where he will and won't play"?

It should have been a warning sign. Turns out Larkin showed that kind of attitude/leadership throughout his career.

ChatterRed
07-21-2008, 04:30 PM
[QUOTE=ChatterRed;1698482]Mentioning/thanking Jim Bowden in any situation just makes the speaker look stupid.

Irony that you mentioned his name in your first sentance then; after all, you did say ANY situation makes the speaker look stupid...


I didn't speak it. I typed it. Big difference. :p::D:beerme:

44Magnum
07-21-2008, 04:57 PM
Yeah, Larkin was a cancer in the clubhouse. He did hang out with Jr. didn't he?
Look who hangs out with Jr. now. Enough said!

gilpdawg
07-21-2008, 05:04 PM
Yeah, Larkin was a cancer in the clubhouse. He did hang out with Jr. didn't he?
Look who hangs out with Jr. now. Enough said!
Your repeated attempts to blame Adam Dunn for everything wrong with the world including gas prices doesn't hold water. Neither you or I knows what goes on inside that clubhouse or who's a bad influence on whom. Keep the shtick up, and we'll keep getting a chuckle out of it.

gilpdawg
07-21-2008, 05:07 PM
Barry's speech pissed me off. The thanking of the Nationals was clearly shot at the Reds. Sure the Reds management has been awful in the past but seem to finally be moving the right direction, but you don't make a comment like that just because your bitter. Especially if you want to come back like you say you do. And why honor the Wilson and Nike guys? I don't think Barry understands marketing and business at all (unless Nike and Wilson are still giving him some kinda cut). The end of Barry's career was also a little shaky, with the McKeon thing and all. Raise your hand if you wish Barry hadn't ran off McKeon. Remember who the Reds could have gotten in a trade for a near retirement Barry Larkin? Now, what would you as the Reds fan rather have; A: A good young exciting shortstop for years to come or B: Loyal Barry Larking who wants to play a little longer for the Reds and finish his career with his one and only. But Barry used his no trade clause, probably because "he is so loyal". Blah. Loyality isn't what I think about when I think Barry Larkin. I think of a guy who's afraid of change and misunderstands a professional relationship with friendship. Also, if he loves Cincy so much, why does has he been living in Florida during the off-season?

Anyway, I'm just annoyed. Did anyone see Bench's reaction to Barry's speech going overtime? I was excited to see Bench toss out a first pitch against the Red Sox a while back, until I realized he had a book to promote. But anyway...they where both great players.
I don't understand the big deal behind thanking his CURRENT EMPLOYERS no matter who they are, or whether or not Leatherpants is involved. If he was working for the Pittsburgh Pirates, nobody would say a word about it. WTH cares?

bounty37h
07-21-2008, 05:15 PM
[QUOTE=bounty37h;1698998]


I didn't speak it. I typed it. Big difference. :p::D:beerme:

Touche! :beerme:

dsmith421
07-21-2008, 05:36 PM
Wow. I love the Reds, but sometimes I think our fanbase gets exactly what it deserves. Larkin is a hometown kid who did things the right way, played the game exactly as it was meant to be played, has been beyond reproach in his family and off-the-field conduct, and maintains a great respect for the history of this franchise.

The fact that some of you would defend Pete Rose and crap on Larkin is pathetic.

dsmith421
07-21-2008, 05:39 PM
I hope Lark enjoyed yesterday's Reds Hall induction ceremony. It's the only Hall of Fame he'll ever be part of.

Yep, best fans in baseball, right here in Cincinnati.

texasdave
07-21-2008, 05:56 PM
Larkin may have had his not-so-stellar moments, but the good he did for this franchise far outweighs the couple of controversial incidents in his career. I'd gladly go into any season with a lineup full of Barry Larkins - one through eight. As far as the Hall of Fame goes, Barry might not get in but he is darn sure knocking on the door.

stfm965
07-21-2008, 05:57 PM
I don't think Mr. Larkin meant anything by the his thanking of the Nats staff. He was being classy in my opinion for thanking them for furthering his career and I think many people saw it as such.

gilpdawg
07-21-2008, 06:02 PM
Yep, best fans in baseball, right here in Cincinnati.

Same fans that ran Eric Davis out of town the minute his kidney blew up. Same fans who are doing the same thing to Adam Dunn right now. Same fans who can't get enough of Ryan Freel because he's white, gets his uniform dirty, and reminds them of a degenerate pathological lier with a gambling problem, only he was a good player. Freel is merely average.

C. Trent gave the fans a little slam yesterday too, for them booing Volquez.

big boy
07-21-2008, 06:19 PM
Same fans that ran Eric Davis out of town the minute his kidney blew up.

I think that is a misnomer. People loved Davis and Larkin. I recall Davis was traded because his skills were gone. Feel free to look at his stats. Also, they received 2 pretty good pitchers in return from Los Angeles Dodgers (Tim Belcher and John Wetteland). If you can turn .235/.353/.386 (Davis) into a 15 game winner (Belcher) and a future All-Star closer (Wetteland), it is a pretty good deal. It isn't like he got cut because the fans hated him.

gilpdawg
07-21-2008, 06:42 PM
I think that is a misnomer. People loved Davis and Larkin. I recall Davis was traded because his skills were gone. Feel free to look at his stats. Also, they received 2 pretty good pitchers in return from Los Angeles Dodgers (Tim Belcher and John Wetteland). If you can turn .235/.353/.386 (Davis) into a 15 game winner (Belcher) and a future All-Star closer (Wetteland), it is a pretty good deal. It isn't like he got cut because the fans hated him.

Oh, in hindsight the trade worked, but it was the previous 8 months of being grilled on WLW and booed at Riverfront that I remember. Not the trade itself.

ChatterRed
07-21-2008, 09:50 PM
I was a huge ED fan for years, but I had no problem with that trade. His hitting ability had declined.

You live in Cincinnati. If you lived in any other city, you'd hear the same crap on the radio and on message boards. Fans are never happy. You should know that.

Nice try, trying to bring race into it as an issue. Is your name Glen from Mason?

gilpdawg
07-21-2008, 11:43 PM
I was a huge ED fan for years, but I had no problem with that trade. His hitting ability had declined.

You live in Cincinnati. If you lived in any other city, you'd hear the same crap on the radio and on message boards. Fans are never happy. You should know that.

Nice try, trying to bring race into it as an issue. Is your name Glen from Mason?
I didn't bring race into it. I mentioned Freel's whiteness and if you don't think that's not a factor as to Freel's popularity, you're crazy. It was more of an off-topic observation. I did not mean there was any racial factors to the Eric Davis thing.

ChatterRed
07-22-2008, 10:10 AM
Well, I'm NOT a Ryan Freel fan, and I'm White. I wish we would trade him. I was an Eric Davis fan. I also loved Gary Redus when he was a Red. Weird, I know.

Not so sure you should have mentioned Freel's "whiteness".

Newman4
07-22-2008, 11:23 PM
Barry's stats are great, but I always thought he was never a leader, much less "captain" I always heard the excuse he "led by example" and was a "non-vocal" leader. Nah, he just was selfish. The excuse about the big contract being his "reward" is just as pathetic as the decision to give it to him. If someone offered you twice your salary to do the same job, would you do it? Don't blame Barry or justify it for Barry. It was a poor business decision. As far as Barry in the Reds HOF, it was nice to see him honored for what he did as a baseball player, but I could really care less if I ever see his bitter, conceited attitude on a baseball field in Cincinnati again.

tsj017
07-23-2008, 12:01 AM
Barry's stats are great, but I always thought he was never a leader, much less "captain" I always heard the excuse he "led by example" and was a "non-vocal" leader. Nah, he just was selfish. The excuse about the big contract being his "reward" is just as pathetic as the decision to give it to him. If someone offered you twice your salary to do the same job, would you do it? Don't blame Barry or justify it for Barry. It was a poor business decision. As far as Barry in the Reds HOF, it was nice to see him honored for what he did as a baseball player, but I could really care less if I ever see his bitter, conceited attitude on a baseball field in Cincinnati again.

Total agreement.

So Larkin allegedly took the "hometown discount" (never proven, by the way) and was therefore entitled to a huge contract when his skills were clearly in decline? A misguided contract that became an albatross around the team's neck?

Way to put the the team first, captain.

Larkin and Bowden deserve each other.

levydl
07-23-2008, 01:25 AM
Larkin is one of my all time favorite players, but he absolutely did not take a hometown discount. When he signed before the 1992 season, when he was not yet 28, his contract was the 5th largest in baseball (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE6DC1F3EF933A15752C0A9649582 60) - 5 years, $25.6 mil (behind Bonilla, Clemens, Jack Morris, and Doc Gooden).

dsmith421
07-23-2008, 10:38 PM
Larkin is one of my all time favorite players, but he absolutely did not take a hometown discount. When he signed before the 1992 season, when he was not yet 28, his contract was the 5th largest in baseball (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE6DC1F3EF933A15752C0A9649582 60) - 5 years, $25.6 mil (behind Bonilla, Clemens, Jack Morris, and Doc Gooden).

And he deserved every cent, for an arb guy at the time.

levydl
07-24-2008, 01:03 AM
And he deserved every cent, for an arb guy at the time.

I agree he deserved the money, I was just responding to the poster who said Larkin took a hometown discount before he got the $27 mil. contract at the end. He didn't. He got paid like one of the best players in the league, and he played like it (when he was healthy).

CWRed
07-24-2008, 01:54 PM
Your repeated attempts to blame Adam Dunn for everything wrong with the world including gas prices doesn't hold water. Neither you or I knows what goes on inside that clubhouse or who's a bad influence on whom. Keep the shtick up, and we'll keep getting a chuckle out of it.

Thank you. Thank you.

But I did hear that Adam Dunn has a penchant for routinely killiing crickets. Jerk.