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View Full Version : Reds vs. Mets 7/20/2008



Boss-Hog
07-20-2008, 03:07 PM
Better late than never? :)

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 03:07 PM
Castro homers...and no, it wasn't Juan

Falls City Beer
07-20-2008, 03:08 PM
Volquez's control problems have come home to roost. Let's hope his stay here in poor control land is short.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 03:09 PM
It was bound to happen eventually....

Kc61
07-20-2008, 03:09 PM
That throw Phillips just made was unbelievable.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 03:10 PM
Anyone but me seeing the GT's deteriorate? Usually 25-30 people present during this series and the recent success. It's been civil and interesting at times, but no one participates. Maybe it has run its course?

Tony Cloninger
07-20-2008, 03:10 PM
The home plate umpires zone must be driving OBM to madness....and the 1st base umpire is another bad one.

Even the Mets announcer (sounded like hernandez but he also sounds like Ron Darling)....said Laz Diaz should stick to umpiring 1st base. A complete waste of time during that pelfrey AB....what Diaz did...followed by a perfect outside strike call...which was not called.

Hernandez said you can thank Richie Phillips.....for these umpires? I thought that union was put in it's place a few years back.

Kc61
07-20-2008, 03:11 PM
The home plate umpires zone must be driving OBM to madness....and the 1st base umpire is another bad one.

Even the Mets announcer (sounded like hernandez but he also sounds like Ron Darling)....said Laz Diaz should stick to umpiring 1st base. A complete waste of time during that pelfrey AB....what Diaz did...followed by a perfect outside strike call...which was not called.

Hernandez said you can thank Richie Phillips.....for these umpires? I thought that union was put in it's place a few years back.


There was a ridiculous call negating a strikeout of Pelfrey by Volquez.

Still the umps didn't cause that home run Volquez allowed.

Falls City Beer
07-20-2008, 03:12 PM
Anyone but me seeing the GT's deteriorate? Usually 25-30 people present during this series and the recent success. It's been civil and interesting at times, but no one participates. Maybe it has run its course?

I don't know. It's summer. Sunday early. Another losing season despite the slight pulse we're feeling of late.

Tony Cloninger
07-20-2008, 03:13 PM
I know that....still does not change the fact that it made Volquez have to throw more pitches.

Do umps get graded at all? Yes i know they do....but they got rid of the bad ones in gary darling and Charlie Williams....what is stopping them from doing the same to some of these putzes.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 03:16 PM
I don't think it's much different that it always has been as far as umpires go. I used to scream when they would give Glavine and Maddux that pitch 6 inches off the plate as a strike and not do the same for our pitchers. The excuse that those two had earned it was just BS. Same here.

Still, today's performance from Volquez is similar to his performance in the AS game, which confuses me somewhat. What is he doing different to cause this?

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 03:19 PM
I don't know. It's summer. Sunday early. Another losing season despite the slight pulse we're feeling of late.

It's more like a fart

CTA513
07-20-2008, 03:21 PM
This is a day that Baker should pull Volquez early.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 03:22 PM
Now he hits a guy

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 03:22 PM
Still, today's performance from Volquez is similar to his performance in the AS game, which confuses me somewhat. What is he doing different to cause this?

I don't know the cause per se', but he seems to be up in the zone a bit more than usual. And it seems the higher the ball gets, the more he misses side-to-side.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 03:22 PM
Affeldt warming

CTA513
07-20-2008, 03:23 PM
Now he hits a guy

Trying to either setup a double play or a 3 run homer.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 03:25 PM
Nice catch.

dougdirt
07-20-2008, 03:31 PM
I really hope he lost that ball in the sun....

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 03:33 PM
Phillips drives in Griffey

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 03:34 PM
Anybody got a 3rd on the Aflac question? Rose and Frank Robinson are 2. Morgan and Larkin did not.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 03:35 PM
What was the question?

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 03:36 PM
Holy Crapsticks, Dunn hits a sac fly...

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 03:37 PM
What was the question?

130+ Runs in a season.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 03:37 PM
Has Dunn scored 130 in a season?

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 03:38 PM
:jump:

CrackerJack
07-20-2008, 03:38 PM
Nice, BP helps score 2, Dunn sac fly, EE nails one out to tie the game.

Falls City Beer
07-20-2008, 03:38 PM
EdE is white-hot, folks.

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 03:39 PM
EE goes yard big time. Really turned his season around. OPS over .850 now.

Falls City Beer
07-20-2008, 03:40 PM
Votto seems headed in the other direction, though.

CTA513
07-20-2008, 03:41 PM
I really hope he lost that ball in the sun....

I don't know if he did or not, but it helped start a Reds rally.

:D

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 03:42 PM
Has Dunn scored 130 in a season?

Nope. Maxed out at 107 in 2005. 3rd guy was Vada Pinson in '59.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 03:42 PM
I like Jim Kelch

Kc61
07-20-2008, 03:43 PM
Votto seems headed in the other direction, though.


When you have enough good players that's what happens. One picks up the other.

Reds are starting to resemble a competitive major league team. Good to see.

Hope V can hold them down here.

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 03:43 PM
EE came in the game hitting .364/.431/.682 in July.

Votto hitting .269/.356/.385 - just missing the power. That line looks awfully similar to the one we're getting from our #3 hitter all year...

dougdirt
07-20-2008, 03:44 PM
I like Jim Kelch

Me too. I have heard some complains about him, but the guy calls a real good game.

CTA513
07-20-2008, 03:46 PM
The Reds tie it up and Volquez gives a free pass to the first hitter he faces in the 5th.

CTA513
07-20-2008, 03:47 PM
A walk and a single to start the 5th for the Mets hitters.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 03:47 PM
Here come the Bratwursts again...

Kc61
07-20-2008, 03:48 PM
Mets with two quick baserunners in the fifth. Bad 0-2 pitch to Marlon Anderson after walking Delgado. Didn't mind the walk, but you can't have a lapse on an 0-2 pitch to a weak hitter like that.

Volquez is all over the place today. About time for him to depart from this ballgame.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 03:48 PM
Volquez at 101 pitches....now 102

NC Reds
07-20-2008, 03:51 PM
Bako should have held that strike three. Dunn makes a catch on Castro. Volquez should be pulled soon.

CTA513
07-20-2008, 03:51 PM
Volquez did a good job getting Castro to fly out after getting behind 3-0 to him.

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 03:51 PM
Volquez at 101 pitches....now 102

1 out. 8th and 9th hitters coming up. Volquez really needs to get through this inning without the lineup turning over and under 115 pitches. Another base runner and you've got to pull him.

CrackerJack
07-20-2008, 03:53 PM
Phew! Didn't think EV would make it out of that inning, let alone not give up a run.

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 03:53 PM
Broken bat liner to 2B and the flip to Keppinger at second for the double play. Huge play right there.

Kc61
07-20-2008, 03:54 PM
Line drive double play. Soft liner to Phillips. So Volquez gets out of it.

V has to learn to be careful with 0-2 pitches. That one was hit right at Phillps but a lot of damage on 0-2 pitches for V and for Cueto this year. All through baseball I've seen terrible 0-2 pitches this year, not only the Reds.

I'm sure Volquez will depart now. Didn't pitch great but hung in there. He's over 100 pitches, enough.

BCubb2003
07-20-2008, 03:58 PM
What label can we give a start that's not a quality start but an adequate, bend-but-not-break, kept-his-team-in-the-game start?

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 04:02 PM
Adequate start

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 04:03 PM
Amazing. Affeldt's got a full count on the pitcher - but he gets him

Hoosier Red
07-20-2008, 04:05 PM
The magic of the single run innings.
He gives up a run in 3 of the 5 innings, gives up a ton of base runners, but aside from the two run oppo field homer, he didn't have a whole lot of damaging hits.

Due to the three run outburst, he's off the hook.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 04:08 PM
Nice inning by Affeldt.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 04:13 PM
:phillips:

:jump:

CrackerJack
07-20-2008, 04:13 PM
THAT was a HR

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 04:13 PM
Boom! BP goes upper deck!

Nice to see him having a good day against the righty. He sure loves that inside stuff.

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 04:22 PM
Affeldt has some really filthy stuff. Unfortunately, his control isn't too good and he grooves a fastball for an RBI single.

CTA513
07-20-2008, 04:25 PM
Affeldt has some really filthy stuff. Unfortunately, his control isn't too good and he grooves a fastball for an RBI single.

He made Delgado look bad on a curveball and the next pitch was a fastball knee high and down the middle.

Raisor
07-20-2008, 04:27 PM
so does that make it 5-5?

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 04:29 PM
so does that make it 5-5?

Yeah, 5-5. Lincoln is in now and walks Tatis.

Castro just misses a 2 run double foul down the RF line. Could really use a grounder here.

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 04:31 PM
Great 2-seamer comes back over the low outside corner to get Castro. Just a great pitch by Lincoln to get the 2nd out.

First pitch pop up to Dunn to end the inning. 5-5 at the 7th inning stretch.

nate
07-20-2008, 04:33 PM
Lincoln's curveball is a bad shut yo mouth.

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 04:36 PM
Nationals are up 14-5 in the 5th against the Braves. As much as I dislike leatherpants, seeing the Braves get clobbered is always heart-warming.

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 04:37 PM
Bako with a routine grounder to SS and Reyes little leagues it through 5 hole in to LF.

Tom Servo
07-20-2008, 04:40 PM
Splitting this series would be frustrating given all the runs the offense has scored in these games.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 04:41 PM
Weathers in

VR
07-20-2008, 04:41 PM
EE came in the game hitting .364/.431/.682 in July.
.

EE has been torrid, although his OPS is .100 lower than David Ross for the month. You know, the guy that's getting less PT than the guy w/ a .450 OPS over the last 2+ months. (nearly .300 over the last 30 games.....300 OPS, not batting average)
Many he had a good first few weeks though...

Hoosier Red
07-20-2008, 04:44 PM
I know Bako's been awful with the bat, but I have no problem having him catch Volquez and Cueto. Those two have developed a comfort level with him behind the dish.

For the other three pitchers, I want Ross though regardless of pitchers' handedness.

CrackerJack
07-20-2008, 04:47 PM
Splitting this series would be frustrating given all the runs the offense has scored in these games.

Yep, ecspecially since they should've taken the first one with a 2 run lead in the ninth.

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 04:48 PM
Bruce doesn't look fast, but he sure has a big stride and covers a lot of ground quickly.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 04:48 PM
Hopefully this nice streak is enough to get Weathers traded...teams in the race have to like what they're seeing right now.

VR
07-20-2008, 04:50 PM
Mike Lincoln over the last 30 days.


11 games

13.1 IP
15K's
8 hits
3 bb
0 runs


He has become an absolute door closer, what a very pleasant surprise.

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 04:51 PM
EE has been torrid, although his OPS is .100 lower than David Ross for the month. You know, the guy that's getting less PT than the guy w/ a .450 OPS over the last 2+ months. (nearly .300 over the last 30 games.....300 OPS, not batting average)
Many he had a good first few weeks though...

Suffice it to say that Dusty is slow on the uptake. Any shred of evidence that confirms his existing ideas will be virtually impossible to undo.

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 04:53 PM
Perfect time for Junior to bunt for a single and PR Patterson.

Raisor
07-20-2008, 04:53 PM
Eddie and Phillips really should be swapped in the lineup, assuming that Junior and Dunn HAVE to hit 3, 5.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 04:56 PM
Coco in already

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 04:56 PM
Eddie and Phillips really should be swapped in the lineup, assuming that Junior and Dunn HAVE to hit 3, 5.

Flip Junior and Dunn as well and you'd really have a nice lineup going.

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 04:57 PM
Good to see Dusty going to Coco here. This is the right move.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 04:57 PM
He promply gives up a hit

lollipopcurve
07-20-2008, 04:57 PM
I don't like Cordero here.

Kc61
07-20-2008, 04:57 PM
Bloop hit for Beltran. I do not like Coco against Delgado here.

VR
07-20-2008, 04:58 PM
Eddie and Phillips really should be swapped in the lineup, assuming that Junior and Dunn HAVE to hit 3, 5.

Certainly against righties. Phillips crushes lefties....but a good case has been made for EE cleaning up against righties.
Vs. lefties I'd love to see Kepp/ Bruce/ BP/ EE/ Dunn/ Griff

Kc61
07-20-2008, 05:01 PM
One out on blooper to Keppinger.

Kc61
07-20-2008, 05:02 PM
Tatis walks. Two on, one out.

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 05:04 PM
Beltran CS at 3B! Castro then singles. Beltran would have been the go-ahead run.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 05:04 PM
Thankfully, Carlos Beltran cost the Mets a run.

Griffey still has an arm

Kc61
07-20-2008, 05:04 PM
Beltran thrown out trying to steal third. Close play. Good throw by Bako.

Then a single to Griffey who comes close to throwing out Tatis at third.

So two outs, first and third.

VR
07-20-2008, 05:04 PM
Will it be Cordero's turn for some rest when Burton gets back, or can it wait that long? He's putting baserunners on at an alarming rate this summer.

Kc61
07-20-2008, 05:05 PM
Coco has been pretty ordinary of late. Hope he gets Chavez here. Strike one.

Kc61
07-20-2008, 05:05 PM
Nice play by Votto on hard smash to end the inning. Whew.

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 05:05 PM
Great play by Votto at 1B to get out of the inning!

dougdirt
07-20-2008, 05:05 PM
Joey Votto may have just saved the game with that play.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 05:05 PM
Votto's been working on his defense.

CTA513
07-20-2008, 05:06 PM
Beltran has really helped the Reds this series.

RedFanAlways1966
07-20-2008, 05:08 PM
Out of all pitchers this year that have at least 20 save opportunities (24 guys)...

Cordero is 15th in ERA.
Cordero is 20th in save %.

Average? Less than average? :confused:

Kc61
07-20-2008, 05:09 PM
Beltran has really helped the Reds this series.


I'll take him.

Ltlabner
07-20-2008, 05:09 PM
Words that should be banned from all future TV broadcasts: Brilliant

That is all.

VR
07-20-2008, 05:09 PM
Reds have a great shot to do something here with BP/ AD/ EE/ JV

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 05:13 PM
Odds Dunn gets lifted for Patterson? Looks like he's staying in for once... Maybe not. Sigh. Let's hope Patterson scores the winning run.

VR
07-20-2008, 05:13 PM
Out of all pitchers this year that have at least 20 save opportunities (24 guys)...

Cordero is 15th in ERA.
Cordero is 20th in save %.

Average? Less than average? :confused:

It's been a tough July...he was very very good the first 3 months of the year. Hopefully he gets it turned around quickly

dougdirt
07-20-2008, 05:14 PM
Odds Dunn gets lifted for Patterson? Looks like he's staying in for once...

Wait until he gets to second base.....

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 05:15 PM
Patterson now pinch running for Dunn - Dusty realized he hadn't used him yet ;)

dougdirt
07-20-2008, 05:15 PM
Spoke to soon. Patterson in for Dunn after 3 pitches?

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 05:15 PM
It's been a tough July...he was very very good the first 3 months of the year. Hopefully he gets it turned around quickly

Marty pointed out that only 9 times this year has he had a 1-2-3 inning.

Patterson PR's for Dunn. Stupid. IMHO, of course

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 05:16 PM
Spoke to soon. Patterson in for Dunn after 3 pitches?

Dusty's screwing with us. Hey dudes, I might be smart. HA! Fooled ya!

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 05:16 PM
Extras, anyone?

Eddie just not thinking.

Raisor
07-20-2008, 05:17 PM
Spoke to soon. Patterson in for Dunn after 3 pitches?

wait, what?

Tony Cloninger
07-20-2008, 05:18 PM
Good grief...what was the point of PR for Dunn there...unless he is hurt??

NC Reds
07-20-2008, 05:18 PM
It's a good thing Dusty pitch ran Corey. :rolleyes: Dusty is clueless.

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:18 PM
wonderful... not Patterson is batting 5th...

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 05:19 PM
His man-love for CP has got to stop...which means CP has to go.

Kc61
07-20-2008, 05:19 PM
Good grief...what was the point of PR for Dunn there...unless he is hurt??


Patterson was trying to steal when Votto popped up to end the inning.

Bray is on the hill.

LoganBuck
07-20-2008, 05:20 PM
Patterson will come up in a leverage spot now. This game is over. I would like to know what the record is for the Reds when Patterson comes in as a defensive replacement for Adam Dunn.

Tony Cloninger
07-20-2008, 05:20 PM
As soon as Patterson PR...it's like all sanity went out the window....EE swings at pitches that were not even close....even half way there they were balls.....than CP just sitting there at 1st..Dunn could have done that?

I defend Dusty a lot for boderline moves...but this is a plain out stupid move ..made with no sense and yet Grande and brantley barely bother to say anything about it. Thom would have at least said something.

Raisor
07-20-2008, 05:21 PM
I'm not watching the game, did Dusty remove Dunn in the middle of his AB or what?

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:21 PM
great start...

LoganBuck
07-20-2008, 05:21 PM
In retrospect it would have been better if Encarnacion had swung at the first pitch and ground into a Keppinger/Phillips special, and kept Dunn in the lineup.

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:21 PM
wow... bunt single... 1st and 3rd

Tony Cloninger
07-20-2008, 05:21 PM
If he was running then Votto should have taken the pitch......his point being out there is to steal...not HOPE that Votto and then Bako? will drive him in.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 05:21 PM
I'm not watching the game, did Dusty remove Dunn in the middle of his AB or what?

He pinch ran CP for Dunn, who was at first, 3 pitches into an at bat.

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:22 PM
how we gonna get out of this?

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 05:22 PM
Bray's second game in a row and the usual result happens. 1st and 3rd no one out and we're in trouble. Why? Everyone knows you do not pitch Bray two days in a row.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 05:22 PM
how we gonna get out of this?

They're not.

RedFanAlways1966
07-20-2008, 05:22 PM
I'm not watching the game, did Dusty remove Dunn in the middle of his AB or what?


Dunn walked on a full-count pitch and Corey pinch-ran for him at 1st base in the middle of EE's at-bat.

Raisor
07-20-2008, 05:22 PM
He pinch ran CP for Dunn, who was at first, 3 pitches into an at bat.

ok.. I was confused

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:23 PM
that is reds baseball folks... they tease you and then show you this...

CrackerJack
07-20-2008, 05:23 PM
Did EE's brain fall out before this inning? Geesh.

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:23 PM
why throw sidearm... I mean why???

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 05:23 PM
Good grief. We need to move Eddie somewhere because his bat usually does not makeup for his boneheaded throws. Pitiful.

LoganBuck
07-20-2008, 05:23 PM
poop

dougdirt
07-20-2008, 05:24 PM
why throw sidearm... I mean why???

Because thats how he throws?

CTA513
07-20-2008, 05:24 PM
This inning is Reds baseball.

dougdirt
07-20-2008, 05:24 PM
Why didn't BP cover second on that play?

Tony Cloninger
07-20-2008, 05:25 PM
Bray is useless than if he cannot pitch 2 days in a row......to add to that...HOW many people say that about just every reliever on this team?

Seems like about more than half of them cannot go 2 in a row.....so while Dusty is a moron when it comes to PR for no reason....you would expect he has a reasonable expectations...that his relievers can go 2 days in a row.....I mean is Bray...Joe Hoerner or something?

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 05:25 PM
EE just can't throw the ball without dropping his elbow to his hip, can he?

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:25 PM
is George blaming it on Phillips... okay...

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:25 PM
Why didn't BP cover second on that play?

he did...

RedFanAlways1966
07-20-2008, 05:25 PM
REDS have now committed 17 more errors than their opponents. That one by EE hurt as much as any other this year.

LoganBuck
07-20-2008, 05:25 PM
looking at the replay Phillips wasn't in position. It probably affected EE throw.

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:25 PM
Bray K's Beltran.. need a dp..

VR
07-20-2008, 05:26 PM
REDS have now committed 17 more errors than their opponents. That one by EE hurt as much as any other this year.

Physical errors, yes. Mental errors? Maybe 1 a game advantage for the opponent?

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 05:26 PM
After Pic's explanation of why they put Patterson in, Spier needs to go along with Pole and Jacoby. Just stupid game management.

dougdirt
07-20-2008, 05:27 PM
is George blaming it on Phillips... okay...

I agree to an extent. Groundball to the 3B with a runner on first and Edwin turns to throw to second and Phillips was standing 5 feet from the bag. Standing. Once he saw that Edwin was going to go to second he started moving and at that point the ball was on its way to where Phillips was standing, but not now that he started moving. Phillips goes toward the bag like he should have to begin with, Edwin doesn't hesitate his throw and probably makes a good throw.

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:27 PM
Bako is wonderful...

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 05:27 PM
Sigh

LoganBuck
07-20-2008, 05:28 PM
The explanation for pinch running Corey Baker, was just on by Peicoro he was put in because they were waiting to time Sanchez to home plate.

Stats and Scouting new fangled crap. ----- The book of Dusty Baker

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:28 PM
I agree to an extent. Groundball to the 3B with a runner on first and Edwin turns to throw to second and Phillips was standing 5 feet from the bag. Standing. Once he saw that Edwin was going to go to second he started moving and at that point the ball was on its way to where Phillips was standing, but not now that he started moving. Phillips goes toward the bag like he should have to begin with, Edwin doesn't hesitate his throw and probably makes a good throw.

you always throw the ball to the bag... always....

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 05:28 PM
Do we have a catcher who can catch the ball?

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 05:28 PM
Double switch time...must get one of those in per game.

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 05:28 PM
Bako pulls a Ross and forgets to pick up the ball before applying the tag.

Falls City Beer
07-20-2008, 05:28 PM
Bill Bray does *everything* humanly possible to counteract the positives that his Ks might bring.

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:29 PM
I figured someone would find a way to make this Bray's fault... we've already gave them 3 outs...

Raisor
07-20-2008, 05:29 PM
The explanation for pinch running Corey Baker, was just on by Peicoro he was put in because they were waiting to time Sanchez to home plate.

Stats and Scouting new fangled crap. ----- The book of Dusty Baker

Did the PR guy text that to him?

RedsManRick
07-20-2008, 05:30 PM
The explanation for pinch running Corey Baker, was just on by Peicoro he was put in because they were waiting to time Sanchez to home plate.

You'd think they could've timed him in the first inning he pitched.

Falls City Beer
07-20-2008, 05:30 PM
Here comes his right-handed mop-up counterpart.

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 05:30 PM
Majik time...or something

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 05:31 PM
Opponents batting a whopping .353 against Majewski

Falls City Beer
07-20-2008, 05:31 PM
I figured someone would find a way to make this Bray's fault... we've already gave them 3 outs...

Leadoff double, single--errorless.

I'd say Bray did a bangup job of contributing to this mess.

dougdirt
07-20-2008, 05:31 PM
you always throw the ball to the bag... always....

So Edwin throws it to the bag where no one is covering and people still lose their minds and the ball still goes into the outfield. Phillips should have been moving toward the bag on the ball being put in play. He was walking toward third base rather than covering 2B like he should have been. By the time he realized what he should have been doing it was too late and he got caught in the middle of nothing and the right thing and it led to a hesitation from Edwin to throwing the ball and him throwing it away.

Kc61
07-20-2008, 05:31 PM
After Pic's explanation of why they put Patterson in, Spier needs to go along with Pole and Jacoby. Just stupid game management.

EE would never have made that bad throw if Dunn was in the game.

That last sac fly to Griffey would have been a double play, but Patterson being out there messed it up.

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:31 PM
Majewski K's Tatis... 7-5 mid 10

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 05:32 PM
Bray goes 2/3 inning, allows a double, a single, a walk and 2 runs (even with the error), and departs for Majewski.

Tatis strikes out and we need two.

Tony Cloninger
07-20-2008, 05:32 PM
Maybe they had a gun to his head when he read it, like in the movie Airplane! when the Russian reporter had a gun to his head when he read the news.....after all this is the Reds...and Red stands for commie. :D

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:32 PM
So Edwin throws it to the bag where no one is covering and people still lose their minds and the ball still goes into the outfield. Phillips should have been moving toward the bag on the ball being put in play. He was walking toward third base rather than covering 2B like he should have been. By the time he realized what he should have been doing it was too late and he got caught in the middle of nothing and the right thing and it led to a hesitation from Edwin to throwing the ball and him throwing it away.

ok... it was BP's fault...

Cedric
07-20-2008, 05:33 PM
It might be cliche, but the difference in winning and losing in professional sports is incredibly small. It's going to take time for some of our youth like Votto, Edwin, and whoever we find at C. The Reds certainly don't have enough talent to overcome the mental mistakes and management mistakes we see frequently. This series should have been a sweep and a springboard to something possibly big. Instead it's another "what if" moment. This team is just not there yet.

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:33 PM
okay.. we're still going to win this...

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 05:34 PM
Leadoff double, single--errorless.

I'd say Bray did a bangup job of contributing to this mess.
Bray apologists are everywhere. He's the future according to Castellini, former manager Narron and most of redszone. He can strike you out, but he can't pitch two days in a row. He'll be the loser today and you cannot deny that.

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:34 PM
Bako vs Wagner... please hit him...

CTA513
07-20-2008, 05:34 PM
okay.. we're still going to win this...

Not likely unless Wagner decides to pitch like Cordero did on friday.

RedFanAlways1966
07-20-2008, 05:35 PM
The REDS have won 3 times this year when the opponent scored 7 or more runs.

(1) April 26. 10-9 @ SF Giants.
(2) May 31. 8-7 vs. Braves.
(3) July 10. 12-7 @ Cubs.

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:35 PM
what was that???

dougdirt
07-20-2008, 05:35 PM
ok... it was BP's fault...

It was both of their faults. Both messed up.

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:36 PM
Bako looks at strike 3...

Falls City Beer
07-20-2008, 05:36 PM
It might be cliche, but the difference in winning and losing in professional sports is incredibly small. It's going to take time for some of our youth like Votto, Edwin, and whoever we find at C. The Reds certainly don't have enough talent to overcome the mental mistakes and management mistakes we see frequently. This series should have been a sweep and a springboard to something possibly big. Instead it's another "what if" moment. This team is just not there yet.

A lot of it's just the ebb and flow, though. Volquez was bound for some struggles--if he doesn't struggle today, the Reds likely win this one. But that's what happens when you have no pitching depth--your team simply can't rely on perfection from a bunch of rookies for an entire season.

Harang and Arroyo should have been the depth, but alas, they too, choked it.

CTA513
07-20-2008, 05:37 PM
Maybe Ross is being saved so he can pinch hit for Bruce?

Cedric
07-20-2008, 05:37 PM
How about this? Majewski has made 12 appearances this season before today and had allowed a hit in EVERY appearance.

Today will most likely change that. How about that for good karma? Majewski will now turn into Scott Williamson circa 1999.

Kc61
07-20-2008, 05:38 PM
It might be cliche, but the difference in winning and losing in professional sports is incredibly small. It's going to take time for some of our youth like Votto, Edwin, and whoever we find at C. The Reds certainly don't have enough talent to overcome the mental mistakes and management mistakes we see frequently. This series should have been a sweep and a springboard to something possibly big. Instead it's another "what if" moment. This team is just not there yet.

You are discounting the Mets. They are not just some patsy out there.

They staged a good comeback on Friday. This game has been back and forth and the Mets have hung tough.

Tough series against a good opponent.

I don't see the mismanagement this series. Nor do I see such big mental mistakes.

The Mets had won nine in a row coming into Cincy. A split is a good outcome for the Reds.

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:38 PM
Javy K's... 2 down

Cedric
07-20-2008, 05:39 PM
A lot of it's just the ebb and flow, though. Volquez was bound for some struggles--if he doesn't struggle today, the Reds likely win this one. But that's what happens when you have no pitching depth--your team simply can't rely on perfection from a bunch of rookies for an entire season.

Harang and Arroyo should have been the depth, but alas, they too, choked it.
Yep. My point was pretty much common sense. This team just doesn't have the depth (talent) to compete yet.

I like the direction though. By direction I mean just gathering good young talent. Still a ways to go though.

jesusfan
07-20-2008, 05:40 PM
Brewers just picked up Ray Durham...

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 05:40 PM
Ballgame

Kc61
07-20-2008, 05:40 PM
Bray apologists are everywhere. He's the future according to Castellini, former manager Narron and most of redszone. He can strike you out, but he can't pitch two days in a row. He'll be the loser today and you cannot deny that.


Bray's a good young arm. He's not lights out.

Other Reds have apologists around here. I've read in the last two minutes how EE didn't really make a bad throw.

CTA513
07-20-2008, 05:42 PM
Easy inning for Wagner.

Falls City Beer
07-20-2008, 05:42 PM
You are discounting the Mets. They are not just some patsy out there.

They staged a good comeback on Friday. This game has been back and forth and the Mets have hung tough.

Tough series against a good opponent.

I don't see the mismanagement this series. Nor do I see such big mental mistakes.

The Mets had won nine in a row coming into Cincy. A split is a good outcome for the Reds.

I guess in the "we'll get 'em tomorrow" Hall of Fame, this series has been pretty good, but it's still not a gain in ground, and it's still cold comfort when it *certainly* should have been a 3 out of 4 victory.

Same old Reds. Day late dollar short.

oneupper
07-20-2008, 05:42 PM
What's this "body bump" that some Mets are doing after the win.
Does that look stupid or what?

Cedric
07-20-2008, 05:43 PM
You are discounting the Mets. They are not just some patsy out there.

They staged a good comeback on Friday. This game has been back and forth and the Mets have hung tough.

Tough series against a good opponent.

I don't see the mismanagement this series. Nor do I see such big mental mistakes.

The Mets had won nine in a row coming into Cincy. A split is a good outcome for the Reds.

I see a lack of talent. It's fine and expected considering the mess O'brien brought in. It's gonna take more time and I hope people are ok with that. I'm just as sick of eight losing seasons as anyone. I'm still quite happy with the overall talent in the organization and Jocketty at the helm.

And the Mets had nothing to do with Edwin and Brandon botching a game changing play. I wasn't trying to talk in absolutes with my post. Just giving my opinion on why I'm not surprised by what happened today or Thursday.

CTA513
07-20-2008, 05:43 PM
Could have won 3 of 4, but the Reds have to settle for 2 of 4.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 05:44 PM
Reds should have swept this series and had a chance. Friday night, Cordero pitched batting practice and today, Bray was not fooling anyone. Couple that with a really bad play by Phillips and Encarnacion, as well as a dropped ball by Bako, and a promising sereis ends up a tie.

Cedric
07-20-2008, 05:45 PM
I guess in the "we'll get 'em tomorrow" Hall of Fame, this series has been pretty good, but it's still not a gain in ground, and it's still cold comfort when it *certainly* should have been a 3 out of 4 victory.

Same old Reds. Day late dollar short.

Agreed, but for the first time in awhile I'm OK with that. Again, I see real talent and a GM that actually has a track record of bringing in talent. It becomes a simple game when you have someone like Walt Jocketty leading your organization.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 05:49 PM
Bray's a good young arm. He's not lights out.

Other Reds have apologists around here. I've read in the last two minutes how EE didn't really make a bad throw.

I'll give you that. He hopefully will become more durable and make better decisions (he always seems to go for the strikeout on the high stuff and gets burned often). It's almost like some are always justifying his greatness to justify The Trade. I know it's not that, but if he becomes anything better than a dependable reliever, I'll be surprised.

As for Ecarnacion, you are correct. I think we need to be shopping for a third baseman and move EdE to someplace he doesn't have to throw or make snap decisions. That's brutal, but holding my breath every time he starts to throw the ball is making me turn blue.

Falls City Beer
07-20-2008, 05:52 PM
Well, at least now that the Cardinals have softened up the Pads for us, we can expect a Reds' sweep, right?

Right? *gulp*

Matt700wlw
07-20-2008, 05:56 PM
They play worse against crappy teams not named the Nationals...

Cedric
07-20-2008, 05:57 PM
Well, at least now that the Cardinals have softened up the Pads for us, we can expect a Reds' sweep, right?

Right? *gulp*

With Burton out the Reds better hope they mash the ball for awhile. When you have exactly one dominant arm in the bullpen you need him healthy. Today was a perfect example of what little depth this organization has. With Burton pitching you probably hold a 5-4 lead and take 3 out of 4 from a smoking hot ball club. I don't like the type of injury Burton has though. I'm not expecting him to contribute much the rest of this season. I'd be EXTREMELY cautious with him at this point. Abdominal injuries are something that can contribute to shoulder problems in the future if they aren't watched properly.

Does anyone trust this medical staff to not risk Jared Burton? I'm not sure if I do.

Falls City Beer
07-20-2008, 05:57 PM
They play worse against crappy teams not named the Nationals...

Of course they do. If the Reds salvage one game in this series I'll be dumbstruck.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 06:02 PM
Well, at least now that the Cardinals have softened up the Pads for us, we can expect a Reds' sweep, right?

Right? *gulp*

Let's see...

Monday - Banks vs. Bailey. Banks' 3.20 ERA against Homer's 7.00?

Tuesday - Peavy vs. Cueto. No.

Wednesday - Maddux vs. Arroyo. Uh, maybe.

Of course, if the Reds get more than 5 or 6 hits, it's possible. But against Banks, Peavy, and Maddux, that's going to be tough.

Falls City Beer
07-20-2008, 06:03 PM
Let's see...

Monday - Banks vs. Bailey. Banks' 3.20 ERA against Homer's 7.00?

Tuesday - Peavy vs. Cueto. No.

Wednesday - Maddux vs. Arroyo. Uh, maybe.

Of course, if the Reds get more than 5 or 6 hits, it's possible. But against Banks, Peavy, and Maddux, that's going to be tough.

The Reds should be able to mash both Banks and Maddux (other teams have). But they won't.

VR
07-20-2008, 06:10 PM
Reds should have swept this series and had a chance. Friday night, Cordero pitched batting practice and today, Bray was not fooling anyone. Couple that with a really bad play by Phillips and Encarnacion, as well as a dropped ball by Bako, and a promising sereis ends up a tie.

They were able to snatch a split from the jaws of a sweep.


They just keep teasing with getting on the verge of being winners, and then slip back to mediocrity.


If the Reds could somehow unacquire Bako and Patterson, this offense might just stand a chance.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 06:13 PM
Maddux BAA .273, ERA 4.21 vs. Arroyo BAA .302, ERA near 6.

Peavy BAA .231 2.66 ERA vs. Cueto BAA .262, ERA near 5

Banks BAA .266, 3.20 ERA vs. Bailey BAA .292, ERA 7.00

It's a recipe for disaster unless the Reds can hit, which they have trouble with sometimes. And field.

Add to that the problem of not having Burton in the bullpen, and you see messes like today. I don't know. A four game sweep would have put them at .500 and things would be looking up, but that didn't happen and the team finds itself at a crossroads of a series with a poor team that happens to pitch well.

Tony Cloninger
07-20-2008, 06:56 PM
They have been hitting better......but since they have little patience and struggle against good off speed pitchers....I could see them reverting back to the April-May offense.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 07:30 PM
They have been hitting better......but since they have little patience and struggle against good off speed pitchers....I could see them reverting back to the April-May offense.

Over the last ten games (where they have compiled a record of 5-5, btw), the Reds have hit .252, which is a couple of points better than their season average, but that's inflated by three games, July 10th (12-8 win), July 17th (8 run loss) and July 19th (win). Take those three games out and we hit .180 and averaged a little over 4 runs a game.

This team is hitting challenged. Today Bruce, Keppinger, Griffey, Votto, and Bako were a combineed 2-20. That's your leadoff, number 2, number 3, number 7, and number 8 hitters.

Big Klu
07-20-2008, 07:51 PM
I disagreed with using Patterson as a PR for Dunn in the ninth inning of a tie game, but in retrospect it didn't matter. Bray has his moments, but is inconsistent, and he definitely made a strong contribution to today's loss.


Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Adam Dunn - 266
5. Ted Kluszewski - 251
6. George Foster - 244
7. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 207
8. Eric Davis - 203
9. Barry Larkin - 198
10. Vada Pinson - 186
11. Wally Post - 172
12. Gus Bell - 160
13. Joe Morgan - 152
13. Pete Rose - 152
15. Lee May - 147
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96

edabbs44
07-20-2008, 08:16 PM
Saint Joseph Torre just double switched his clean-up hitter out of the game. Lord have mercy.

Cedric
07-20-2008, 08:55 PM
Over the last ten games (where they have compiled a record of 5-5, btw), the Reds have hit .252, which is a couple of points better than their season average, but that's inflated by three games, July 10th (12-8 win), July 17th (8 run loss) and July 19th (win). Take those three games out and we hit .180 and averaged a little over 4 runs a game.

This team is hitting challenged. Today Bruce, Keppinger, Griffey, Votto, and Bako were a combineed 2-20. That's your leadoff, number 2, number 3, number 7, and number 8 hitters.

So take a 10 game sample and then throw out the 3 best games? I'm stunned the numbers aren't pretty. Why not throw out the three worst games then? Again, I'm confused by the data here.

And I figured this board would be the last to worry about BA. That's considering our best player hits .230.

WVRedsFan
07-20-2008, 09:17 PM
So take a 10 game sample and then throw out the 3 best games? I'm stunned the numbers aren't pretty. Why not throw out the three worst games then? Again, I'm confused by the data here.

And I figured this board would be the last to worry about BA. That's considering our best player hits .230.

You're misreading what I was saying. What I was trying to point out was the average of ten game statistics masks that 7 out of 10 times, we do not score any runs or hit the ball. Dunn is a statisical freak. In those three games I threw out (which the Reds were 1-2), we so different from the usual 5-7 hit games. That is all. What I was trying to show is that, no, the hitting hasn't improved. It had nothing to do with OBP or anything because I believe (and always will) that you cannot win games and score many runs without hits.

Tony Cloninger
07-21-2008, 12:42 PM
Fair enough....how about these last 4 games......best over all hitting I have seen from this team in a while. Hopefully this bodes well for rest of 2nd half.

WVRedsFan
07-21-2008, 07:28 PM
Fair enough....how about these last 4 games......best over all hitting I have seen from this team in a while. Hopefully this bodes well for rest of 2nd half.
:thumbup:

That's my hope too.