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View Full Version : So why is Houston trading for Wolf?



LvJ
07-22-2008, 10:39 AM
Apparently, it's pretty close...

http://onbaseplusslugging.com/?p=12

Johnny Footstool
07-22-2008, 10:49 AM
Good. Good for the Reds.

LvJ
07-22-2008, 10:51 AM
Good. Good for the Reds. He owned us earlier this season. Remember, mediocre left handers vs. Reds = Hall of Famers.

Dave Williams anyone?

RedsManRick
07-22-2008, 11:14 AM
They're winning now. No... For reals. Within 3 years, the Astros will be the new Pirates.

Johnny Footstool
07-22-2008, 11:22 AM
He owned us earlier this season. Remember, mediocre left handers vs. Reds = Hall of Famers.

Dave Williams anyone?

Ah, but the rest of the league will continue to crush him, and the losses will mount for Houston. Thus, it's good for the Reds.

flyer85
07-22-2008, 11:24 AM
if you look at their farm system and lack of young talent on the major league roster ... win now looks like the only option they have.

Johnny Footstool
07-22-2008, 11:25 AM
How is that Jason Jennings deal looking now?

Joseph
07-22-2008, 11:51 AM
How is that Jason Jennings deal looking now?

They've dumped a LOT of young talent in the last couple years, and some solid veterans as well.

princeton
07-22-2008, 12:28 PM
Within 3 years, the Astros will be the new Pirates.

new Reds?

RedsManRick
07-22-2008, 12:31 PM
new Reds?

Well, the new late-Bowden era Reds. They've already got their Griffey Jr in Carlos Lee and their Larkin in Tejada. The cycling through broken down starters and mediocre prospects has already begun.

HotCorner
07-22-2008, 04:15 PM
Reds have a winning record against lefties this season, 19-18. As for Wolf, he's a completely different pitcher in Petco Park compared to when he pitches on the road.

danforsman
07-22-2008, 04:21 PM
if you look at their farm system and lack of young talent on the major league roster ... becoming the NL's version of the Royals looks like the only option they have.

Fixed.

HotCorner
07-22-2008, 04:22 PM
Click to see his splits

5344

_Sir_Charles_
07-22-2008, 05:10 PM
Put bluntly, Houston is out of options. They've got absolutely no help in the minors, and their paper-thin rotation is hitting the disabled list. I'd been telling all my co-workers this past off-season that these pickups they did would come back and bite them in the rear. They already had a weak farm system, and they drained it completely to pick up those off-season pickups. Bad, bad moves.

~Houston acquired pitcher Jose Valverde from the Arizona Diamondbacks for infielder Chris Burke and pitchers Juan Gutierrez and Chad Qualls.

~Houston acquired pitchers Jason Jennings and Miguel Asencio from the Colorado Rockies for outfielder Willy Taveras and pitchers Taylor Buchholz and Jason Hirsh.

~Traded pitcher Brad Lidge and infielder Eric Bruntlett to the Philadelphia Phillies for pitcher Geoff Geary, outfielder Michael Bourn and third baseman Mike Costanzo.

~Traded Dan Wheeler (P) to TB-A for Ty Wigginton (IF) and cash

~Traded Matt Albers (P), Troy Patton (P), Dennis Sarfate (P), Luke Scott (OF) and Mike Constanzo (IF) to Bal-A for Miguel Tejada (IF)

These are some deals in the past couple of years that have really hurt this team's future. Not that I'm complaining. :O) But that's a ton of young talent that they dealt away for very little in return IMO. Wigginton & Tejada have been fairly strong, but they simply dealt away players in positions they didn't have any depth in. Horrible farm system/roster management to say the least.

danforsman
07-22-2008, 05:41 PM
DisAstros get Wolf [/URL]for 26 y/o RHP Chad Reineke, who was very good in his last 25 IP in 2007 out of the pen and then inexplicably moved back to the rotation in 2008.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5901537.html

Spitball
07-22-2008, 05:54 PM
DisAstros get Wolf [/URL]for 26 y/o RHP Chad Reineke, who was very good in his last 25 IP in 2007 out of the pen and then inexplicably moved back to the rotation in 2008.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5901537.html

Losing a 26 year old minor leaguer won't hurt the Astros' future. Certainly they see this trade as getting a step up on signing Wolf for next year.

danforsman
07-22-2008, 05:57 PM
Losing a 26 year old minor leaguer won't hurt the Astros' future. Certainly they see this trade as getting a step up on signing Wolf for next year.

I'm not sure how handing millions of dollars to a guy with an ERA approaching 7.00 outside of Petco Park will help the Astros this year or any other. Reineke appears to be a guy who could have been an asset if used properly, which he wasn't, not so surprisingly.

LvJ
07-22-2008, 06:14 PM
Losing a 26 year old minor leaguer won't hurt the Astros' future. Certainly they see this trade as getting a step up on signing Wolf for next year. Exactly what I thought. I guess it's a nothing to lose type of deal. Most likely he'll be very bad, but if somehow he succeeds, then they get him for nothing. But I do believe he will be quite terrible in Houston, so that is good for us.

Spitball
07-22-2008, 06:24 PM
I'm not sure how handing millions of dollars to a guy with an ERA approaching 7.00 outside of Petco Park will help the Astros this year or any other. Reineke appears to be a guy who could have been an asset if used properly, which he wasn't, not so surprisingly.

Millions sounds like a lot, but it's really about two million for the rest of the season. Now they get to see firsthand what he can do in an Astro uniform and show the their fans that the team hasn't totally given up on the season.

He might not help but they really haven't paid too much to audition him for next year and possibly help out this year.

sonny
07-22-2008, 11:56 PM
Kind of reminds me of the Pirates Trading for Matt Morris. Weird.

Falls City Beer
07-22-2008, 11:59 PM
Honestly, the Astros probably need arms to finish the season (injuries, cutting Chacon). A band-aid fix.

Reds could use something like this.

hebroncougar
07-23-2008, 09:07 AM
Honestly, the Astros probably need arms to finish the season (injuries, cutting Chacon). A band-aid fix.

Reds could use something like this.

Where? To replace who? I have no use for Wolf, and especially not in a park like GABP, or Financial Crash Field in Houston.

Strikes Out Looking
07-23-2008, 09:09 AM
Ed Wade is the Texas version of Jim Bowden.

REDREAD
07-23-2008, 09:58 AM
Where? To replace who? I have no use for Wolf, and especially not in a park like GABP, or Financial Crash Field in Houston.

The Reds could probably benefit from picking up a veteran bullpen arm. Even a sub mediocre one. Either that or a starter that could eat innings. The bullpen is seriously gassed now. They've got Maj and Coffey in the pen, and Baker seems to have so little confidence in them that Coffey hasn't been used at all (unless he came in last night after I went to bed).. Maj has only been used as a last resort for the most part (he's certainly Dusty's last option in a close game).

So I agree with FCB, picking up a mediocre vet to eat innings in the rotation or bullpen for nothing wouldn't be a bad move. Really, at this point of the season, the Fogg signing is really looking good, because it keeps Thompson and Malony in the minors. If Wayne hadn't signed Fogg, the lack of depth would really have bitten us.

Wheelhouse
07-23-2008, 10:35 AM
They have a hard nosed team that has shown the ability to finish strong in recent years. The reds on the other hand have a weak makeup and tend to fold a little bit.

princeton
07-23-2008, 10:43 AM
They have a hard nosed team that has shown the ability to finish strong in recent years. The reds on the other hand have a weak makeup and tend to fold a little bit.

agreed.

also, even if rebuilding, Astros don't have anyone that they have to trade off by year's end. so if it's a buyer's market, why not buy? you can sell later, in the offseason

Reds are in a very different situation. they have players that they have to deal with immediately.

Falls City Beer
07-23-2008, 10:50 AM
Where? To replace who? I have no use for Wolf, and especially not in a park like GABP, or Financial Crash Field in Houston.

When's the last time Harang had a good start for the Reds? And how good of an idea is it to try to force two rookies (one who is only 22 years old) to throw 200 MLB innings this season?

MartyFan
07-23-2008, 10:57 AM
They have a hard nosed team that has shown the ability to finish strong in recent years. The reds on the other hand have a weak makeup and tend to fold a little bit.

A little bit?

hebroncougar
07-23-2008, 11:42 AM
When's the last time Harang had a good start for the Reds? And how good of an idea is it to try to force two rookies (one who is only 22 years old) to throw 200 MLB innings this season?


For that yeah, but it's hard to fathom that he can actually finish the season w/o getting hurt himself. And what would we give up to get an innings eater at this point? I'm all for keeping the young guys innings down, but Wolf's an expensive option there, and he's averaging less than 6 innings a start, so I'm not sure if he'd be a ton of help. I'd try a less expensive option if I could find one.

flyer85
07-23-2008, 12:58 PM
Kahrl is on a roll today


I brought up Coronado earlier, but what is it about the Astros that brings Cervantes' mad knight to mind? Tilting and windmills can be admirable in the abstract, and like Don Quixote, this Houston team doesn't have a whole lot of tomorrows, however bold their ambitions in the present. The real problem is that unlike Quixote, Ed Wade operates in a world where the windmills don't sit still, they beat you about the head until you run and hide in a basement, and instead of the lonely dusty fields of La Mancha, you've got thousands of witnesses and hundreds of tut-tutting pundits talking about how a well-constructed windmill's going to take a man who's outlasted his usefulness 10 out of 10 times, and make him sorry for it as well.

There's really little reasonable explanation for what Ed Wade's done here, beyond drink way too much of his own Kool-Aid in his... inspired bid for win-now relevance in Houston. It isn't the price paid to get a starting pitcher that's so terrible—the Astros have so very little to offer, yet they nevertheless gave up one of their best mediocre prospects. They did so to acquire a starting pitcher, something they desperately need, and you can admire that in its ambition. It's in the details where this desperate proposition fails so badly, because the Astros didn't go out and get just any pitcher, they had to get a Petco Park illusion. A left-handed park illusion. To pitch for them. In front of the Crawford Boxes. And did I neglect to mention that his arm's made out of stale macaroons?

REDREAD
07-23-2008, 02:36 PM
Another point is that it's hard to say in some of these deals. Was it the Cards or Astros that picked up Woody Williams when he looked like toast, and then Williams rebounded to give them 1 or 2 good years?

Wolf has had an erratic career, but has been good at times. Not a whole lot different than rolling the dice on a marginal prospect (if you've got the cash)

Jpup
07-24-2008, 11:50 AM
Ed Wade lives in another world. Nothing has changed.

RedsManRick
07-24-2008, 01:05 PM
Another point is that it's hard to say in some of these deals. Was it the Cards or Astros that picked up Woody Williams when he looked like toast, and then Williams rebounded to give them 1 or 2 good years?

The Cards traded for Williams (somehow dumping Ray Lankford in the process) and got 3 solid years out of him. Williams then went back to San Diego and put up a few decent years. I think he may have gotten injuried his 2nd season back in SD. Then the Astros threw 2 years at him, he stunk it up in year 1 and then retired.

REDREAD
07-24-2008, 02:01 PM
The Cards traded for Williams (somehow dumping Ray Lankford in the process) and got 3 solid years out of him. Williams then went back to San Diego and put up a few decent years. I think he may have gotten injuried his 2nd season back in SD. Then the Astros threw 2 years at him, he stunk it up in year 1 and then retired.

Ok thanks.. So it was the Cards that got the good bounce out of him.

IIRC, at the time of the Lankford trade, Williams looked finished. It looked like a junk for junk trade.

That's not to say Wolf will rebound, but if the Astros have the money (they do), it's not a horrible gamble to audition him the rest of the year, considering he didn't cost much in a trade.

Strikes Out Looking
07-24-2008, 03:10 PM
Richard Justice of the Houston Chronicle was on XM175 today talking about this deal and the Astros. Basically, he said the team's ownership is delusional. He also said they had a deal to draft and sign Drew Stubbs, but reneged on it at the time.

He said Astros officials point to their good start and say they are a good team while ignoring their recent play.

princeton
07-24-2008, 03:29 PM
He also said they had a deal to draft and sign Drew Stubbs, but reneged on it at the time.

there's always tomorrow...