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edabbs44
07-23-2008, 12:55 PM
This would be a horrific turn of events. I would lose faith in Jocketty immediately.


Briefly: Near-daily Huston Street trade rumor: The Reds apparently have some interest in the A's closer, according to sources, and the Mets also might make a run at trying to get him. ...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/23/SPVS11T4TF.DTL

flyer85
07-23-2008, 12:56 PM
only if they would take Cordero for him.

Matt700wlw
07-23-2008, 12:57 PM
Doesn't make any sense, given the current state of the Reds, but who wouldn't want Huston Street going into next year (and beyond)? Seriously!

Quality is important.

edabbs44
07-23-2008, 12:58 PM
Reds Interested In Huston Street?
By Tim Dierkes [July 23 at 11:50am CST]
Up until today, the list of known Huston Street suitors included the Mets, White Sox, Dodgers, and Brewers. The San Francisco Chronicle's Susan Slusser tosses a new club into the mix: the Reds.

It's an interesting development; the Reds are nine games out of the wild card. Of course, that didn't stop the Astros from making an acquisition. And unlike Randy Wolf, Street is under team control through 2010. On the other hand, Street could earn more than $5MM next year and the Reds are already paying Francisco Cordero $12MM in '09.

For discussion's sake...would a Street-Adam Dunn swap make any sense? We know that the A's are lingering around on Jason Bay discussions. Dunn isn't under contract for '09, but he should be good for two draft picks. Walt Jocketty and Billy Beane matched up once before, on the Mark Mulder-Dan Haren deal.


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Cincy Nation would implode if this were to happen. And for good reason.

RichRed
07-23-2008, 01:02 PM
For discussion's sake...would a Street-Adam Dunn swap make any sense?

In a word, no.

schroomytunes
07-23-2008, 01:12 PM
For us to land Huston Street it will take this type of package to land him:

1)Votto and Frazier
2)Votto and Thompson
3)Bailey and Stubbs
---too much to give up for the guy IMHO--and frankly he would make our pen resemble the nasty boys of 1990, but we need the above guys more than another luxury in the pen!

Highlifeman21
07-23-2008, 01:15 PM
Bailey and Stubbs for Street?

You betcha.

flyer85
07-23-2008, 01:17 PM
The Rauch trade set a rather low market. I'm sure it was the best the GM could do.

lollipopcurve
07-23-2008, 01:19 PM
Terrible, terrible idea -- unless they think they can flip him.

The guy's had arm problems off and on -- what could they be thinking?

edabbs44
07-23-2008, 01:21 PM
Bailey and Stubbs for Street?

You betcha.

Want nothing to do with Street. He has been getting pounded lately. Definite injury risk.

RedsManRick
07-23-2008, 01:22 PM
Gotta keep pace with the Astros...

Tom Servo
07-23-2008, 01:23 PM
This is odd.

LoganBuck
07-23-2008, 01:26 PM
And people complained about Krivsky collecting bullpen guys.

Falls City Beer
07-23-2008, 01:27 PM
If Street can be gotten for Bailey or Bailey plus one of the Reds' overrated bats (Soto?), you have to make this deal.

I can't believe all the pooh-poohing of acquiring a guy like Street. I'll guess it's because it's a potential Jocketty move as opposed to a Wayne move.

He'd be by far the best pitching pickup of this deadline if acquired.

Falls City Beer
07-23-2008, 01:27 PM
And people complained about Krivsky collecting (bad) bullpen guys.

RedsManRick
07-23-2008, 01:31 PM
Cot's Contracts


Huston Street rhp
1 year/$3.3M (2008)

* signed 1/17/08 (avoided arbitration)
* 1 year/$0.38M (2007), renewed 3/07
* 1 year/$339,625 (2006), renewed 3/06
* 1 year/$0.316M (2005), contract purchased 4/05
* drafted 2004 (1s-40), $0.8M signing bonus
* agent: Hendricks Sports
* ML service: 3.000

From Fangraphs


Age IP ERA FIP K/9 BB/9 HR/9 GB/FB FB(mph) SL CH
2005 21 78.1 1.72 2.75 8.27 2.99 0.34 1.10 91.2 84.7 83.4
2006 22 70.2 3.31 2.62 8.53 1.66 0.51 0.88 91.7 86.0 82.0
2007 23 50.0 2.88 2.74 11.34 2.16 0.90 0.89 90.4 84.9 80.9
2008 24 44.0 4.09 3.73 8.80 2.45 1.24 0.94 89.7 84.4 81.8


He's not likely to ever be more valuable than he is today. However, he is going to get significantly more expensive the next two years. Trading Street now would be a classic Beane move. He's lost a little velocity over the last few years and his HR/9 has gone up every year. Street would be a perfect fit for the Yankees or Mets, teams in the playoff hunt in desperate need for bullpen help and with cash to spare for a pricey, if effective, set up guy.

Caveat Emperor
07-23-2008, 01:31 PM
I can't believe all the pooh-poohing of acquiring a guy like Street. I'll guess it's because it's a potential Jocketty move as opposed to a Wayne move.

It's a very Jocketty move, and I like it (provided whats given up isn't obscene).

I seem to recall another closer with past arm troubles doing very well for a Jocketty-run franchise.

LoganBuck
07-23-2008, 01:31 PM
Thanks for the fix!

OnBaseMachine
07-23-2008, 01:31 PM
If Street can be gotten for Bailey or Bailey plus one of the Reds' overrated bats (Soto?), you have to make this deal.

I can't believe all the pooh-poohing of acquiring a guy like Street. I'll guess it's because it's a potential Jocketty move as opposed to a Wayne move.

He'd be by far the best pitching pickup of this deadline if acquired.

Soto overrated huh?

LoganBuck
07-23-2008, 01:33 PM
I haven't seen Street pitch for since he was a rookie. Can someone give me a thumbnail scouting report, and details on his arm issues?

lollipopcurve
07-23-2008, 01:37 PM
Bailey and Stubbs for Street?

You betcha.

You lose-a.

Team Clark
07-23-2008, 01:38 PM
If Street can be gotten for Bailey or Bailey plus one of the Reds' overrated bats (Soto?), you have to make this deal.

I can't believe all the pooh-poohing of acquiring a guy like Street. I'll guess it's because it's a potential Jocketty move as opposed to a Wayne move.

He'd be by far the best pitching pickup of this deadline if acquired.

I have to agree 100% here. Burton and Street in the 7th. This could signal the end of Weathers which I am all for. When CoCo needs a break Street steps in and throws down the hammer. I see no downside at all.

CTA513
07-23-2008, 01:41 PM
Didn't he have a problem with his elbow last season?

Highlifeman21
07-23-2008, 01:42 PM
Want nothing to do with Street. He has been getting pounded lately. Definite injury risk.

Like I said, if it costs us Bailey and Stubbs, it's a steal.

Although I can't imagine Beane wanting Bailey, and Stubbs' defense can only mean so much to Beane.

Street > Weathers, and I don't see Weathers being with the Reds after this season.

I fail to see the reason people are up in arms in adding arguably what would be our 2nd best bullpen arm behind Cordero. :confused:

RichRed
07-23-2008, 01:44 PM
If I were Beane, I'd want to deal with Jocketty again too. Let's hope this one works out more in Jock's favor (if a deal does indeed go down).

Falls City Beer
07-23-2008, 01:44 PM
Like I said, if it costs us Bailey and Stubbs, it's a steal.

Although I can't imagine Beane wanting Bailey, and Stubbs' defense can only mean so much to Beane.

Street > Weathers, and I don't see Weathers being with the Reds after this season.

I fail to see the reason people are up in arms in adding arguably what would be our 2nd best bullpen arm behind Cordero. :confused:

I think Beane's one Achilles' heel is his general overvaluation of defense. Stubbs IMO would be right up his alley.

Highlifeman21
07-23-2008, 01:48 PM
I think Beane's one Achilles' heel is his general overvaluation of defense. Stubbs IMO would be right up his alley.

I hope you're right.

I'd love to see Street as a Red.

RedsManRick
07-23-2008, 01:48 PM
It's a very Jocketty move, and I like it (provided whats given up isn't obscene).

I seem to recall another closer with past arm troubles doing very well for a Jocketty-run franchise.

Of course, they could afford to pay Isringhausen because they had a Cy Young making peanuts and didn't have another closer making $10M already.

I've got no problem with the talent Huston street, but for $5-6M next year and $8-10M in 2010, it just doesn't make sense fiscally.

edabbs44
07-23-2008, 01:55 PM
Like I said, if it costs us Bailey and Stubbs, it's a steal.

Although I can't imagine Beane wanting Bailey, and Stubbs' defense can only mean so much to Beane.

Street > Weathers, and I don't see Weathers being with the Reds after this season.

I fail to see the reason people are up in arms in adding arguably what would be our 2nd best bullpen arm behind Cordero. :confused:

Because unless this team is prepping to make a run at a $100MM payroll, they can't afford to acquire Street after paying Cordero what they did last winter.

LoganBuck
07-23-2008, 01:56 PM
I wouldn't trade Homer Bailey for a bullpen arm anyway. Some of you are too anxious to get rid of him (and Drew Stubbs). If the Reds trade Homer Bailey they have to pray that Aaron Harang's arm will continue to function, while continuing to lean on Josh Fogg. Like it or not Homer Bailey is the best #5 starter the Reds have.

kaldaniels
07-23-2008, 01:57 PM
Because unless this team is prepping to make a run at a $100MM payroll, they can't afford to acquire Street after paying Cordero what they did last winter.

Exactly. If Cordero gets back on track and performs, I'm ok with spending that percent of payroll on him. However with a payroll in the 75 million or so range, 20 million invested in the back of the pen is too high.

Spitball
07-23-2008, 02:06 PM
Want nothing to do with Street. He has been getting pounded lately. Definite injury risk.

In his last six innings over five games, he has given up nine hits while striking out one and walking one.

If the A's can prove his health, I wouldn't mind a deal if he is a bargain. The market doesn't seem to favor sellers at this point so I'd offer no more than Maloney and Stubbs.

Spitball
07-23-2008, 02:10 PM
Exactly. If Cordero gets back on track and performs, I'm ok with spending that percent of payroll on him. However with a payroll in the 75 million or so range, 20 million invested in the back of the pen is too high.

Maybe, but when you have three youngsters hitting the 100 pitch mark half way through the fifth inning and two veterans who were over used in the Narron era, a deep and talented pen is a good investment.

MasonBuzz3
07-23-2008, 02:18 PM
a back end of Affeldt from the left and Burton, Street and Coco would be nasty..especially with our starters struggling to get through six innings the majority of the time

Rojo
07-23-2008, 02:18 PM
Jocketty extrapolation -- what they've done tells you what they're going to do. True, often enough, but usually pricey.

Red Heeler
07-23-2008, 02:18 PM
Of course, they could afford to pay Isringhausen because they had a Cy Young making peanuts and didn't have another closer making $10M already.

I've got no problem with the talent Huston street, but for $5-6M next year and $8-10M in 2010, it just doesn't make sense fiscally.

The Reds are paying Corey Patterson and Mike Stanton $6.5 million this year. Let that sink in before saying it doesn't make sense to pay Street the same amount.

edabbs44
07-23-2008, 02:20 PM
The Reds are paying Corey Patterson and Mike Stanton $6.5 million this year. Let that sink in before saying it doesn't make sense to pay Street the same amount.

Just because Wayne spent money like a fool doesn't mean it's ok for Walt to do the same.

REDREAD
07-23-2008, 02:21 PM
Of course, they could afford to pay Isringhausen because they had a Cy Young making peanuts and didn't have another closer making $10M already.

I've got no problem with the talent Huston street, but for $5-6M next year and $8-10M in 2010, it just doesn't make sense fiscally.

On the other hand, isn't Weathers making around 4 million this year?
We're also paying Stanton between 3-4 million not to pitch.

I know there's a lot of people up for big raises next season, but with Dunn and Jr leaving, this might not be a bad move if we can get Street without giving up a whole lot.

It also opens the door to possibly trade Burton or Cordero for other needs.

It doesn't hurt to inquire about Street. He'd definitely be an asset. Spend that payflex :)

kaldaniels
07-23-2008, 02:24 PM
The Reds are paying Corey Patterson and Mike Stanton $6.5 million this year. Let that sink in before saying it doesn't make sense to pay Street the same amount.

I would agree, but I would also argue that on just about every MLB team you could easy find 6.5 million of dead payroll. Except the Marlins, who live in another universe.

Kc61
07-23-2008, 02:25 PM
Street's given up 6 homers this year, which translates to a higher number at GABP. That's the minus. The plus is that he hardly ever gives up much else. His WHIP numbers are superb and he seems like a very high quality reliever.

If the Reds' offer is sensible, it would be great to add him.

MrCinatit
07-23-2008, 02:29 PM
a back end of Affeldt from the left and Burton, Street and Coco would be nasty..especially with our starters struggling to get through six innings the majority of the time

So, we could have a bunch of boys who could be nasty in the pen....
if only we could think of a cool nickname...

RedsManRick
07-23-2008, 02:31 PM
The Reds are paying Corey Patterson and Mike Stanton $6.5 million this year. Let that sink in before saying it doesn't make sense to pay Street the same amount.

Two wrongs don't make a right. That payroll waste is going directly in to the pockets of Aaron Harang, Brandon Phillips, Alex Gonzalez, Edwin Encarnacion, and Bronson Arroyo -- all of whom are going to get pay raises next year.

That said, I'd certainly rather pay $6M for very effective pitching than anything for below replacement production.

Dan
07-23-2008, 02:48 PM
Soto overrated huh?

*looks up at post again*

Yup, that's what he said.

corkedbat
07-23-2008, 02:57 PM
Could it be in addition to a deal for Cordero? I know he has a no-trade, but there are ways around it. Is there a contender out there who would give up two or three talented younger guys for Coco (Milwaukee?) :evil:

NC Reds
07-23-2008, 03:15 PM
I'll pass on Street.

Nugget
07-23-2008, 03:16 PM
The guys were talking about it on the radio. There opinion (which seems to gel with the much known slogan "The World Misleader in Sports") is that the guys at espn get paid on a per rumour basis and their job is to slap as much mud out there as possible and see which one sticks. They also indicated that it may have come from a veteran columnist at The World Misleader (even went so far as linking the original poster of the rumour with that columnist's alma mater).

Matt700wlw
07-23-2008, 03:19 PM
I'll pass on Street.

Use left lane.

Mario-Rijo
07-23-2008, 03:43 PM
Sounds to me like Beane trying to jack up the interest and value of one Mr. Street. It doesn't make a lot of sense for us to be acquiring another reliever at this juncture. I would certainly not mind if we acquired him the money to me is a non-issue if BobC wants to spend it but who we would give up might be bothersome. I could see Beane trying to snatch some underrated guys from us. Maybe some guys like Turner, Henry, Wood something along those lines.

red-in-la
07-23-2008, 03:53 PM
Bailey and Stubbs for Street?

You betcha.

Not that the A's are going to do this dumb rumor.....but you would rather part with Homer Bailey and Stubbs? Why?

Unless the Reds were intending to re-sign Dunn, he is about as useful to them as Corey Patterson.

If you could acquire a guy that other teams might want, or that might greatly increase your bullpen depth, for a guy that nobody wants....do....do it NOW!

I guess I can see suggesting that it is a dumb rumor (not even a rumor, just a suggestion by who knows who) but to suggest changing the Reds price from no value to some value I cannot go along with.

MasonBuzz3
07-23-2008, 03:59 PM
I'd do a deal similar to the Rauch to Arizona deal. But dealing with Beane is a little different than Leatherpants

nate
07-23-2008, 04:02 PM
Unless the Reds were intending to re-sign Dunn, he is about as useful to them as Corey Patterson.

In this sentence, who is "he" and who is "them?"

red-in-la
07-23-2008, 04:05 PM
Adam Dunn, for 13 million dollars (about 1/3 of that left to be paid I guess), is pretty useless to the 2008 Reds. They are 50-53 with him. Nowhere near any post-season possibility.

Not a team that could get themselves close, as they more than proved on this homestand (and the roadtrip before).

So what does he mean to this team?

reds44
07-23-2008, 04:09 PM
A Burton/Street/Cordero back 3 would be interesting.

If the Reds have no interest in re-signing Dunn, would you rather have Street or two 1st round picks?

red-in-la
07-23-2008, 04:15 PM
A Burton/Street/Cordero back 3 would be interesting.

If the Reds have no interest in re-signing Dunn, would you rather have Street or two 1st round picks?

Did anybody ever answer the arbitration/draft pick question?

I would rather have Street.

flyer85
07-23-2008, 04:16 PM
why would the A's want a player they'll have for two months.

klw
07-23-2008, 04:28 PM
Did anybody ever answer the arbitration/draft pick question?

I would rather have Street.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70461

red-in-la
07-23-2008, 04:34 PM
Forget the "draft picks" argument.

RedsManRick
07-23-2008, 04:36 PM
Beane is fishing for young, cheap players -- likely ones ready to contribute soon. See the trades of Mulder, Hudson, Haren, Swisher, and Harden for reference.

Dunn wouldn't make any sense at all.

Highlifeman21
07-23-2008, 04:48 PM
Because unless this team is prepping to make a run at a $100MM payroll, they can't afford to acquire Street after paying Cordero what they did last winter.

Why not?

Griffey's coming off the books, and possibly (even though it would be criminally stupid) Dunn too.

We can definitely afford Huston Street with the money we won't be paying Junior.

RedsManRick
07-23-2008, 04:55 PM
Why not?

Griffey's coming off the books, and possibly (even though it would be criminally stupid) Dunn too.

We can definitely afford Huston Street with the money we won't be paying Junior.

Not to say that we can't afford him necessarily, but over $13M will be going to Harang, Arroyo, Freel, Phillips, Gonzalez and Cordero in the form of pay raises. EE is also likely to get a raise of a few million bucks through arbitration.

Junior's money is already spent, as is much of the money saved by jettisoning Patterson and Weathers.

The only way he fits in to the budget if the Reds keep it around the 2008 number is if Dunn is gone or somebody is traded.

MartyFan
07-23-2008, 05:13 PM
Terrible, terrible idea -- unless they think they can flip him.

The guy's had arm problems off and on -- what could they be thinking?

Could they be thinking about dealing Weathers and putting Street in the set up role?

Mario-Rijo
07-23-2008, 06:36 PM
Not to say that we can't afford him necessarily, but over $13M will be going to Harang, Arroyo, Freel, Phillips, Gonzalez and Cordero in the form of pay raises. EE is also likely to get a raise of a few million bucks through arbitration.

Junior's money is already spent, as is much of the money saved by jettisoning Patterson and Weathers.

The only way he fits in to the budget if the Reds keep it around the 2008 number is if Dunn is gone or somebody is traded.

Who knows if this is the case, I could honestly see BobC opening up the wallet this coming offseason assuming there's someone worth acquiring that makes sense for us.

One other thing that crossed my mind, is Burton worse off than they are willing to admit? Why else would you have interest in Street at this juncture, he almost seems like a luxury at this point.

Raisor
07-23-2008, 06:38 PM
Who knows if this is the case, I could honestly see BobC opening up the wallet this coming offseason assuming there's someone worth acquiring that makes sense for us.

One other thing that crossed my mind, is Burton worse off than they are willing to admit? Why else would you have interest in Street at this juncture, he almost seems like a luxury at this point.

If there is an "opening" of the wallet, then they need to get Dunn signed PDQ, while they have solo negotation rights.

*BaseClogger*
07-23-2008, 07:01 PM
Of course, they could afford to pay Isringhausen because they had a Cy Young making peanuts

Edinson Volquez

*BaseClogger*
07-23-2008, 07:02 PM
Because unless this team is prepping to make a run at a $100MM payroll, they can't afford to acquire Street after paying Cordero what they did last winter.

You have been championing the idea that Jocketty knows what to do with Dunn's money. Well, here ya go... :)

Spring~Fields
07-23-2008, 07:27 PM
Not to say that we can't afford him necessarily, but over $13M will be going to Harang, Arroyo, Freel, Phillips, Gonzalez and Cordero in the form of pay raises. EE is also likely to get a raise of a few million bucks through arbitration.

Junior's money is already spent, as is much of the money saved by jettisoning Patterson and Weathers.

The only way he fits in to the budget if the Reds keep it around the 2008 number is if Dunn is gone or somebody is traded.

Sounds like the payroll will be going up without actually improving the team quality. So that leaves them filling the roster with more fodder and filler doesn't it ? Unless the owners/investors increase capital investment to increase the payroll to get those players closer to league average, how will they ever get out of the cycle of not having enough talent on this team, to do what Castellini wants, "the losing stops" ? How does the losing stop without changing the outcome of the RS RA to the favor of the Reds over that of their primary competitors?

Spring~Fields
07-23-2008, 07:38 PM
This would be a horrific turn of events. I would lose faith in Jocketty immediately.


Don't you think that Jocketty should be sending a message of moving forward, and don't you think that Jocketty should be resigning Dunn now?

Instead of doing what previous general managers did, trading off outfielders for pitching?

dougdirt
07-23-2008, 07:42 PM
Here is a question for you.

Pretend that the Reds have it made up in their mind they aren't bringing Dunn back for whatever reason (disregard whether you feel its a dumb/smart move to do so). Do you trade him for Street or let him walk at the end of the year and take the picks?

KronoRed
07-23-2008, 07:45 PM
Get the picks.

_Sir_Charles_
07-23-2008, 07:48 PM
Why in the world would we want Street?!? We've got Cordero & Burton. Yes, Fransisco is struggling. But his track record says that it won't last. He'll come back to his norm. No, stay FAR away from Street or any other closer. We don't need 'em.

edabbs44
07-23-2008, 07:56 PM
Don't you think that Jocketty should be sending a message of moving forward, and don't you think that Jocketty should be resigning Dunn now?

Instead of doing what previous general managers did, trading off outfielders for pitching?

I think Jocketty should be formulating a plan. The same plan that I was crying for in the days of Krivsky.

If the plan is to build around Dunn, then let's do it. If it is to try and win 3-4 years from now when the youngsters are all getting into their prime, then I see no need for Dunn. Get a few guys who will be ready to help 3-4 years from now.

Non large mkt teams can't just add talent when they can and hope it works out. They need to write up a blueprint and gun for a time period. The Yankees, for example, can just state "We need x, let's get him." They'll always have the money next year if they need y. Cincy isn't in the same boat. So they have to ask themselves "Is getting Huston Street in the best interest for the short and long term goals of this franchise?" If Walt thinks the answer is yes, then he needs to get him. If Walt thinks that Street just accomplishes the short term and still wants him, then I would disagree with him. But it's on him since it is his job. I'm just a fan.

But it would blow my mind if this team is going to give up major value for Street. They would have to be nearing the record for most talent/money thrown at a bullpen in a three year span. If they were to do something like this, then Cincy better have one of the best bullpens in recent times for this to be a smart move.

Plus, I wonder how Street or Cordero would react to not being a full time closer.

Spring~Fields
07-23-2008, 07:57 PM
Here is a question for you.

Pretend that the Reds have it made up in their mind they aren't bringing Dunn back for whatever reason (disregard whether you feel its a dumb/smart move to do so). Do you trade him for Street or let him walk at the end of the year and take the picks?

If I am an investor and I am concerned with more important things than winning baseball games, for example, good sound business practices etc.

I for good PR and future marketing reasons, give the appearance of negotiating with Dunn, then issue a statement later that we just could not come to a mutual agreement with Dunn, and take the picks, if I could not trade him and Griffey off during this season.

I use part of the savings/liquidity to pay off Griffey’s buyout, then I instruct my GM to acquire us a name or two to help with marketing to the diamond club and season ticket holders for next year and then fill with fodder and fillers around them, until the minor leagues can actually provide enough talent to make the team winners.

Spring~Fields
07-23-2008, 08:09 PM
I think Jocketty should be formulating a plan. The same plan that I was crying for in the days of Krivsky.

If the plan is to build around Dunn, then let's do it. If it is to try and win 3-4 years from now when the youngsters are all getting into their prime, then I see no need for Dunn. Get a few guys who will be ready to help 3-4 years from now.
Now that's a solid and good answer, I completely agree, have a plan, goal/objective and pursue it.

If they are going to build around Dunn fine, and make sure that they have and plan to afford the necessary supporting cast of quality players to go along with Dunn, to make winning happen.

Or continue to build with "youngsters" by moving all the questionable talent and the expense burden contracts in a manner of a Beane or others to hasten the timeline of having "youngsters" that are truly major league talent.


Non large mkt teams can't just add talent when they can and hope it works out. They need to write up a blueprint and gun for a time period. The Yankees, for example, can just state "We need x, let's get him." They'll always have the money next year if they need y. Cincy isn't in the same boat. So they have to ask themselves "Is getting Huston Street in the best interest for the short and long term goals of this franchise?" If Walt thinks the answer is yes, then he needs to get him. If Walt thinks that Street just accomplishes the short term and still wants him, then I would disagree with him. But it's on him since it is his job. I'm just a fan.

Clear as a bell, I agree.


But it would blow my mind if this team is going to give up major value for Street. They would have to be nearing the record for most talent/money thrown at a bullpen in a three year span. If they were to do something like this, then Cincy better have one of the best bullpens in recent times for this to be a smart move.

Plus, I wonder how Street or Cordero would react to not being a full time closer.

If this move had any truth to it, then it would like a salary dump or an attempt to move an expensive outfielder for pitching, which we have seen since the interim general managers took over after the Bowden firing, ie the Guillen trade forward. I want to have faith that Jocketty will do a better job than the previous guys, if given the tools and free rein to do so.

Mario-Rijo
07-23-2008, 08:17 PM
Here is a question for you.

Pretend that the Reds have it made up in their mind they aren't bringing Dunn back for whatever reason (disregard whether you feel its a dumb/smart move to do so). Do you trade him for Street or let him walk at the end of the year and take the picks?

Beane would have to sweeten it up a bit, but I would highly consider it. Here's why:

Potential '09 Staff
Harang
Volquez
Cueto
Arroyo
Bailey

Cordero
Street
Burton
Bray
Affeldt
Lincoln
Roenicke

And here's the kicker, re-sign Dunn in FA.

C - ?
1B - Votto
2B - BP
3B - EE
SS - ?
LF - Dunn
CF - ?
RF - Bruce

Bench
Keppinger IF
Hairston UT
Cumberland OF
Bako C
Rosales IF

Find a way to dump Freel and Gonzo and fill those 3 holes with above average overall players and you are set for a good season. I don't see any glaring weaknesses, although you probably wouldn't mind having a LHH off the bench and you can't necc. count on everybody having a good season especially guys like Lincoln and Affeldt. But I think that depending on who you can find to fill those 3 starters holes it's a really good start.

Caveat Emperor
07-23-2008, 08:48 PM
Why in the world would we want Street?!? We've got Cordero & Burton. Yes, Fransisco is struggling. But his track record says that it won't last. He'll come back to his norm. No, stay FAR away from Street or any other closer. We don't need 'em.

I'd rather have Cordero, Burton and Street than Cordero, Burton, and nothing.

But, I'm greedy like that -- I have this crazy notion that you can never have too many talented pitchers on a roster.

Kc61
07-23-2008, 09:03 PM
I'd rather have Cordero, Burton and Street than Cordero, Burton, and nothing.

But, I'm greedy like that -- I have this crazy notion that you can never have too many talented pitchers on a roster.

Simple analysis, yet pretty good one. Maybe Walt sees the opportunity to have a great bullpen and wants to take it.

red-in-la
07-23-2008, 09:03 PM
Get the picks.

There are NO picks...period.

The Reds would have to be NUTS to offer Dunn arbitration......may as well head for Vegas.

dougdirt
07-23-2008, 09:04 PM
There are NO picks...period.

The Reds would have to be NUTS to offer Dunn arbitration......may as well head for Vegas.

Nah, Dunn won't take a 1 year deal when he will have offers for multiple years on the table for comparable money.

Patrick Bateman
07-23-2008, 09:07 PM
Street is a fabulous reliever, but he isn't what we need right now. Our bullpen is actually pretty good, and has a nice future core.

Trading chips should be put towards fixing the holes of the team, rather than making a fairly slight upgrade to a good area.

red-in-la
07-23-2008, 09:13 PM
Nah, Dunn won't take a 1 year deal when he will have offers for multiple years on the table for comparable money.

Let's project this a bit.

Dunn has a few weeks before he has to accept arbitration (after FA startts) right? I am not really sure about the date, but it seems as though arbitration is a December thing while FA begins a week after the end of the WS.....right?

If Dunn gets a knockout offer right out of the FA chute then he is gone right? No arb, no piks, right?

Joseph
07-23-2008, 09:35 PM
Dunn whom we can't seem to trade for Street who if healthy we might be able to trade for younger prospects next year....

Not the way I'd do it, but why not.

CTA513
07-23-2008, 09:39 PM
If Street is healthy and the Reds don't plan on re-signing Dunn, then yeah I would do that trade.

lollipopcurve
07-23-2008, 09:41 PM
Street is a fabulous reliever

No, he isn't. Take a look at his 08 numbers. ERA over 4, 6 HRs in 40 innings. All his numbers are down from previous years. He's never thrown over 75 innings, and he's coming off a year in which he threw 50 innings. His arm is fragile, and he's only going to get more expensive in a reliever market that's exploding. Jared Burton's numbers over the last year are much better -- if you're looking at Street as a setup guy.

My guess is that Beane cannot wait to dump Street on someone -- I can't believe Jocketty would be so gullible.

KronoRed
07-23-2008, 09:41 PM
They would have to be nuts to NOT offer him arbitration, get nothing? that is what foolishly bad teams would do.

RedsManRick
07-23-2008, 09:43 PM
Let's project this a bit.

Dunn has a few weeks before he has to accept arbitration (after FA startts) right? I am not really sure about the date, but it seems as though arbitration is a December thing while FA begins a week after the end of the WS.....right?

If Dunn gets a knockout offer right out of the FA chute then he is gone right? No arb, no piks, right?

IIRC, any signing which takes place before the arbitration deadline is automatically subject to compensation.

KronoRed
07-23-2008, 09:48 PM
IIRC, any signing which takes place before the arbitration deadline is automatically subject to compensation.

Indeed.

If the Reds fail to offer arbitration they should pack up shop and move down to the Mid-West league.

PuffyPig
07-23-2008, 09:49 PM
If Dunn gets a knockout offer right out of the FA chute then he is gone right? No arb, no piks, right?

It's the opposite.

If he signs before the arbitration deadline, picks are automatic.

And the Reds would be crazy not to offer him arbitation.

The wrost that happens is we get him for 1 year.

Which is likely the best thing to happen to us.

red-in-la
07-23-2008, 09:49 PM
They would have to be nuts to NOT offer him arbitration, get nothing? that is what foolishly bad teams would do.

Dunn could get a HEALTHY raise in arbitration.......what would the Reds offer? What would Dunn ask for?

It is just too mind-boggling to contempate.

HokieRed
07-23-2008, 09:50 PM
Could getting Street be the first part of another move? Would the Dodgers be interested, perhaps with Dunn?

red-in-la
07-23-2008, 09:51 PM
It's the opposite.

If he signs before the arbitration deadline, picks are automatic.

And the Reds would be crazy not to offer him arbitation.

The wrost that happens is we get him for 1 year.

Which is likely the best thing to happen to us.

If that is the rules, let's hope he get s a nice contract offer from a Texas team right out of the chute.

Offering him arbitration is still nuts IMHO.

KronoRed
07-23-2008, 09:54 PM
The Reds aren't pawning stuff to get by, they have plenty of money.

Falls City Beer
07-23-2008, 10:12 PM
The Reds have two high leverage relievers and one is getting old. Street would be exactly what the doctor ordered. This would be a deal on a par with the Phillies' acquisition of Lidge. Well, maybe not that good, but very good all the same.

red-in-la
07-23-2008, 10:13 PM
The Reds aren't pawning stuff to get by, they have plenty of money.

Guys...guys....I just found Castellini's CFO. :D

klw
07-23-2008, 10:14 PM
Provided they don't overpay, this could be the sort of move I referenced in the buyer/seller thread where a team buys at the deadline but not necessarily for this year.

KronoRed
07-23-2008, 10:18 PM
Guys...guys....I just found Castellini's CFO. :D

If they can't afford Dunn then Phillips needs to go as well, Harang, Arroyo and definitely Cordero.

25 guys making the minimum, the way to do it.

edabbs44
07-23-2008, 10:44 PM
The Reds have two high leverage relievers and one is getting old. Street would be exactly what the doctor ordered. This would be a deal on a par with the Phillies' acquisition of Lidge. Well, maybe not that good, but very good all the same.

Except the Phillies didn't already have the highest paid FA reliever in the history of baseball on the roster.

Street, if healthy, would obviously make the bullpen better. But at what cost?

Falls City Beer
07-23-2008, 10:45 PM
But at what cost?

Money. Which is a fairly minor difficulty.

edabbs44
07-23-2008, 10:50 PM
Money. Which is a fairly minor difficulty.

So they are going to just buy Street from Oakland? He'll cost more than cash.

Falls City Beer
07-23-2008, 10:53 PM
So they are going to just buy Street from Oakland? He'll cost more than cash.

Not much more, if the market is any indication.

edabbs44
07-23-2008, 10:55 PM
Not much more, if the market is any indication.

I would disagree with that.

Patrick Bateman
07-23-2008, 11:16 PM
No, he isn't. Take a look at his 08 numbers. ERA over 4, 6 HRs in 40 innings. All his numbers are down from previous years. He's never thrown over 75 innings, and he's coming off a year in which he threw 50 innings. His arm is fragile, and he's only going to get more expensive in a reliever market that's exploding. Jared Burton's numbers over the last year are much better -- if you're looking at Street as a setup guy.

My guess is that Beane cannot wait to dump Street on someone -- I can't believe Jocketty would be so gullible.

I don't think it's at all wise to disect 40 innings of any pitcher to make an accurate assessment. He's a young man, and I agree that fragility is an issue at hand, his career numbers to date are pretty telling.

243 IP
2.85 ERA
9.07 K/9
3.89 K/BB
0.96 GB/FB
0.67 HR/9
2.89 FIP

Overall, I see a reliever in Cordero's class. Not an elite reliever, but a fringy top 10 guy. A very good pitcher. I think the current injury concerns are overblown, and other than general fragility, I don't see it as a major problem.

I think he will be costly. IMO, Beane will only move him if he gets some pieces he really likes. Now if his trade value is closer to what FCB is suggesting, than you grab him without restraint and laugh all the way to the bank. Dude is good, and signed to sub market rates. Personally, I think the price is going to be more than that. Otherwise, Beane may as well wait.

buckeyenut
07-24-2008, 06:28 AM
There are NO picks...period.

The Reds would have to be NUTS to offer Dunn arbitration......may as well head for Vegas.

They would have to be nuts NOT to offer Dunn arbitration.

The only concern with Dunn might be length of contract he might demand at the top end dollars. If you can pay him 18M/yr for 1 year IN HIS PRIME, with no restrictions on trading him, you do that in a heartbeat. And there is no way he makes 18M in arb.

buckeyenut
07-24-2008, 06:34 AM
and since I took the thread off topic on a post that is a repeat of someone else's, let me go back on topic.

I would be willing to trade for Huston Street and pay him for the next few years. I would do so assuming the goal is 09/10, so I'd push to deal only guys that wouldn't help me in that window, which takes Homer out of the picture, but leaves Stubbs in. If Beane is OK with that, I think we have some pieces that could work. Maybe we send back a near ready reliever prospect in the deal (probably not Roenicke, but am willing to do just about any others we have) with stubbs and one other kid like say Sean Henry.

lollipopcurve
07-24-2008, 06:44 AM
Dude is good, and signed to sub market rates.

He's not signed beyond this year. So he goes to arbitration with lots of saves on his resume. You want to be paying 2 relievers at closer rates? And come 2010, Burton will be eligible for arbitration, too.

Like I said, terrible idea -- unless you can turn right around and trade him.