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View Full Version : Bronson Arroyo wants to stay in Cincinnati



Matt700wlw
07-23-2008, 05:11 PM
http://www.thelotd.com/ctrent/blog/2008/07/23/arroyo_wants_to_stay_in_cincinnati

and video:

http://www.thelotd.com/ctrent/blog/2008/07/23/video_arroyo_wants_to_stay_in_cincinnati

jesusfan
07-23-2008, 05:24 PM
That's good to hear... Hopefully he keeps pitching like he has lately.. He could be a really good #4 pitcher for us...

cincinnati chili
07-23-2008, 06:04 PM
Yes, it's glad to hear he wants to stay. But I also think the guy is delusional to think that the Reds are necessarily quitting by trading him. He hasn't pitched well enough since '06 to make that claim. Here's the quote I'm talking about:

"I'd really be disappointed if they made a trade for me," Arroyo said. "I feel like honestly if you trade me, you're going ahead and saying we're not going to build a winning team here. Of the four starters who have been here all year, I think all of us have a chance to pitch here for a long time, health-wise and age-wise. If you go ahead and trade me out now, you're cashing in the money for a losing team."

fearofpopvol1
07-23-2008, 06:13 PM
What Arroyo doesn't really mention is that keeping him on as a pitcher for the amount of money he makes coupled with his performance this year makes him a luxury to most teams, especially when you have promising young pitchers in the pipeline.

I'm probably 1 of the few that wants to actually keep Arroyo (especially as a backend starter), but not for the kind of money he's due over the next couple years.

paulrichjr
07-23-2008, 07:07 PM
What Arroyo doesn't really mention is that keeping him on as a pitcher for the amount of money he makes coupled with his performance this year makes him a luxury to most teams, especially when you have promising young pitchers in the pipeline.

I'm probably 1 of the few that wants to actually keep Arroyo (especially as a backend starter), but not for the kind of money he's due over the next couple years.

Who do we get that is proven for next year that will be any cheaper. I certainly don't want to go the free agency route. I would like to win... I think this rotation has the potential to be very very good. I agree with him. Unless they trade him for something that helps big time next year I say pass. Seriously...who are we going to replace him with?

Spring~Fields
07-23-2008, 07:11 PM
Arroyo’s optimistic that he won’t be traded because of owner Bob Castellini.
"When I see Bob Castellini, I feel like it's a guy that wants to win here, I don't think he's ready to go ahead and say he's put in as much as he wants to put in and go ahead and start ripping pieces apart," Arroyo said. "I hope the vibe I get from him is for real. If it's not, then I'll have another surprise coming my way."

Castellini is in his third season as the Reds owner and already fired a general manager this season because "we're just not going to lose anymore."

Arroyo's not talked in depth with Castellini, but he’s seen how the Reds owner is around the players and even the staff, taking time out to encourage the training staff to make sure the players are healthy.

"He's serious about it, I can't see him saying 'that's it, let's go ahead and pack it in and save some money,'" Arroyo said.

Castellini ? I thought that Walt Jocketty was the general manager brought in to fix this for Bob Castellini, why is Arroyo focusing in on Castellini and not Walt Jocketty?

http://www.1530homer.com/cc-common/news/sections/sportsarticle.html?feed=265471&article=3996718


"He's serious about it, I can't see him saying 'that's it, let's go ahead and pack it in and save some money,'" Arroyo said.

What's the hold up on resigning Dunn?

red-in-la
07-23-2008, 07:15 PM
Who do we get that is proven for next year that will be any cheaper. I certainly don't want to go the free agency route. I would like to win... I think this rotation has the potential to be very very good. I agree with him. Unless they trade him for something that helps big time next year I say pass. Seriously...who are we going to replace him with?

I agree.....with Arroyo, just remember two things, he is not a #2 starter, no matter where he pitches, and he is extremely streaky.....more than any other pitcher I have ever seen.

He is in a good streak right now, but he will go back to a bad one before the end of NEXT year. So, keep him, but he ready for the end of this good streak before the 2009 playoffs and don't count on him to win the game that gets you into the playoffs next year.

jojo
07-23-2008, 07:22 PM
He want's to play for the Cincinnati Redsox?

GAC
07-23-2008, 07:37 PM
So do you sell high? Or figure his performance is going to be consistent enough to warrant paying him 11 mil/yr for the next 2 years?

Thank God I'm not the one getting to make that decision, because I know which one I woulod make. ;)

Unless Bob Castellini is willing, in the off-season, to make a serious splash in that market to acquire those players to make a run in '09/10, then why hang onto an Arroyo if a sound offer is made for him?

This again gets back to a discussion we were having on another thread of "which approach is this FO going to take with whatever "window of opportunity" presents itself?"

BCubb2003
07-23-2008, 07:38 PM
We'll always have his shampoo.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080723/capt.d411ebe4cb1e46b98c7c02c48b3548b4.bronson_arro yo_gillette_haircare__gillette101.jpg

Cincinnati Reds starting pitcher, Bronson Arroyo, shows fans how he cleans up before and after the game with new Gillette shampoo and conditioner. Bronson celebrated the launch of new Gillette Hair Care at the Kroger office in downtown Cincinnati, getting his hair washed, signing autographs and passing out product samples.

Spring~Fields
07-23-2008, 07:45 PM
So do you sell high? Or figure his performance is going to be consistent enough to warrant paying him 11 mil/yr for the next 2 years?

Thank God I'm not the one getting to make that decision, because I know which one I woulod make. ;)

Unless Bob Castellini is willing, in the off-season, to make a serious splash in that market to acquire those players to make a run in '09/10, then why hang onto an Arroyo if a sound offer is made for him?

This again gets back to a discussion we were having on another thread of "which approach is this FO going to take?"

Looks like they may let a couple outfielders go to continue to tread water. ;)


Unless Bob Castellini is willing, in the off-season, to make a serious splash in that market to acquire those players to make a run in '09/10,

:ughmamoru

Is it already up to 09/10 before the losing stops ? ;) :lastyear: 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010

KittyDuran
07-23-2008, 07:49 PM
We'll always have his shampoo.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080723/capt.d411ebe4cb1e46b98c7c02c48b3548b4.bronson_arro yo_gillette_haircare__gillette101.jpg

Cincinnati Reds starting pitcher, Bronson Arroyo, shows fans how he cleans up before and after the game with new Gillette shampoo and conditioner. Bronson celebrated the launch of new Gillette Hair Care at the Kroger office in downtown Cincinnati, getting his hair washed, signing autographs and passing out product samples.Seriously, the way BA looks and dresses in that pic - you could put him in my senior class in '77 and he'd fit right in... Of course, '77 was the year he was born.

paulrichjr
07-23-2008, 08:02 PM
So do you sell high? Or figure his performance is going to be consistent enough to warrant paying him 11 mil/yr for the next 2 years?

Thank God I'm not the one getting to make that decision, because I know which one I woulod make. ;)

Unless Bob Castellini is willing, in the off-season, to make a serious splash in that market to acquire those players to make a run in '09/10, then why hang onto an Arroyo if a sound offer is made for him?

This again gets back to a discussion we were having on another thread of "which approach is this FO going to take with whatever "window of opportunity" presents itself?"


I agree "If" a knockout offer is made then you do it. But it has to be something that MAKES the Reds BETTER next year. I am not intersted in an A ball player or the 10th best prospect in the Yanks farm system.

Chip R
07-23-2008, 08:10 PM
Seriously, the way BA looks and dresses in that pic - you could put him in my senior class in '77 and he'd fit right in... Of course, '77 was the year he was born.


That doesn't make you feel too old, does it? :D

It's not an easy solution IRT what to do with Bronson. If you are serious about dealing him, you have to look at what you are going to get in return. After this season his trade value is going to go down because very few clubs are going to want what he brings to the table at that cost. If all you are going to get for him is a couple AA players, you might as well keep him. Right now we seem pretty set for pitching. You have Volquez and Harang as your 1 & 2 starters, Cueto your 3rd starter, Arroyo the 4th and Homer/Maloney/Thompson as the 5th starter. But what happens if Harang can't be the Harang of old? If Volquez gets figured out? If Cueto doesn't improve? If Homer regresses or Maloney & Thompson aren't ready. If one or more get hurt? Who knows if you can even get a Fogg? Bronson gives you depth. Is he overpaid? You bet but you can't have him on the team at a lower salary. That ship has sailed. He wants to stay here. How many free agent ptchers are out there that can win you 12-15 games and wants to pitch here? Even if you get rid of his salary and try to go after some free agent bat or arm, there's no guarantee they will come here. And if they don't, not only did you lose Bronson, not only did you not get that free agent you had your eyes on but you have to fill Bronson's slot. Odds are the Reds aren't going to be able to do it from within so they are going to have to overpay to get someone else.

missionhockey21
07-23-2008, 08:10 PM
Arroyo is such a tough case. The contract is scary, but when he is going right, it's hard to want to let that go when you consider the other pieces we have in the rotation that could add up to success. I really see Arroyo as someone the Reds could regret letting go if it's to the right organization, with the right pitching coach, who can ensure that he is delivering in a consistent fashion.

I agree with Paul. Keep him unless you get an offer that will make the Reds better sooner than later, and not to just dump him for any return.

Caveat Emperor
07-23-2008, 08:46 PM
What Arroyo doesn't really mention is that keeping him on as a pitcher for the amount of money he makes coupled with his performance this year makes him a luxury to most teams, especially when you have promising young pitchers in the pipeline.


It's hard for me to label any pitcher who leads his team in quality starts for a season and throws 200+ IP of league average baseball as a "luxury."

The minute you start counting nickels for stuff like that is the minute you need to consider buying a professional soccer franchise.

GAC
07-23-2008, 09:07 PM
Arroyo has won his last 5 starts, with an ERA of 3.19.

Trivia question..... who was the last Red's pitcher to win 5 consecutive starts?

Overall, as a Red, he posts a 32-33 W-L record (.499 winning %), and a 4.37 ERA.

It's great that he has been pitching pretty solid as of late. Has posted an ERA of 2.2 in his last 5 starts.

But the opposition's offensive numbers vs Bronson in '08..... .316 BA .376 OB% .542 SLG% .911 OPS

BCubb2003
07-23-2008, 09:11 PM
It's a little like fixing the roof. When the sun is shining, you don't need to fix it, and when it's raining, you can't fix it.

But I think Chip's right. If you trade him, you'll just struggle to replace him, and might end up paying as much or more.

klw
07-23-2008, 09:19 PM
Arroyo has won his last 5 starts, with an ERA of 3.19.

Trivia question..... who was the last Red's pitcher to win 5 consecutive starts?



Steve Parris

fearofpopvol1
07-23-2008, 10:20 PM
Who do we get that is proven for next year that will be any cheaper. I certainly don't want to go the free agency route. I would like to win... I think this rotation has the potential to be very very good. I agree with him. Unless they trade him for something that helps big time next year I say pass. Seriously...who are we going to replace him with?

That's where Jocketty needs to get creative. You do have Thompson, Bailey and Maloney as potential options. Then of course, you would think/hope that Arroyo would bring back a good pitching prospect in return. Maybe you can trade Dunn in the next week if you're not going to resign him. You may be able to pickup a free agent pitcher that's decent. Jocketty has been pretty good with that (Wellemyer, Looper). Bronson's season ERA this year should not be hard to match.


It's hard for me to label any pitcher who leads his team in quality starts for a season and throws 200+ IP of league average baseball as a "luxury."

The minute you start counting nickels for stuff like that is the minute you need to consider buying a professional soccer franchise.

This season, it's not a luxury. Next year and beyond, based on salary and his performance THIS SEASON, it's a luxury for a team that has many holes to fill with limited resources.

Spring~Fields
07-23-2008, 11:42 PM
Some things from Fays Blog

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a6a638b48-9065-4e46-97a0-10413ffd5b02&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com


But he would say that trimming salary will not be reason behind any trade.

"I have not been instructed to dump salary," Jocketty said. "What we'll do is try to improve the club for this year and next."

That is not to say contract aren't a factor.

"Money is always a factor because you've got budget's to deal with," Jocketty said. "But when we sit down and project, a lot of things are taken into consideration."

Arroyo's comments were directed to CEO Bob Castillini. Castellini is hands-on owner, but he's not in on preliminary trade talks.

"i keep him up to date," Jocketty said. "If we have a deal, i'd take to him. That hasn't happened yet."

Caveat Emperor
07-24-2008, 12:43 AM
This season, it's not a luxury. Next year and beyond, based on salary and his performance THIS SEASON, it's a luxury for a team that has many holes to fill with limited resources.

The resources of this team are only limited by this team.

This "we must cut X player to have money to sign Y player" is small market thinking and counterproductive. I highly doubt Jocketty is as worried about costs as many of the people on here are.

AmarilloRed
07-24-2008, 01:03 AM
I like the fact that Arroyo wants to stay in Cincinnati. We traditionally have had a hard time getting SP free agents to stay in Cincinnati, so I think it is good to have him in our rotation. I think you should keep him unless you you get a very good trade offer.

RedLegSuperStar
07-24-2008, 08:36 AM
I like the fact that Arroyo wants to stay in Cincinnati. We traditionally have had a hard time getting SP free agents to stay in Cincinnati, so I think it is good to have him in our rotation. I think you should keep him unless you you get a very good trade offer.

I agree. Arroyo has been 5-0 in his last 5 starts. He's turned it around since the Toronto game. If we can get Harang back at full strength and pair that with the 3 young guns of Volquez, Cueto, and Bailey.. I think we may surprise some teams down the stretch. Not saying take the Wild Card or Division.. but I think we could finish above .500 and take that step towards building winning baseball in Cincinnati.

In order for Jocketty to deal Arroyo.. I think he would have to be overwelmed with the offer. If the Yankees want Arroyo the price should be high and would have to include someone who can help us this year and beyond.

redsmetz
07-24-2008, 08:51 AM
The resources of this team are only limited by this team.

This "we must cut X player to have money to sign Y player" is small market thinking and counterproductive. I highly doubt Jocketty is as worried about costs as many of the people on here are.

I think you're probably right. If we're counting pennies, then we can't be playing in this league. We should finally swap places with Louisville or Indy and accept our status as a minor league town. Now obviously that's hyperbole, but if we can't cut it, then we here need to free up some bandwidth and live with our reality.

Bravo for Bronson. If he makes another JTM commercial, thought, he needs to be out of here.

princeton
07-24-2008, 09:48 AM
boohoo, Wayne ruined this team with his Arroyo contract, gnash, gnash.

all in fun, gentlemen. The game turns quickly. I've no doubt that it'll turn once more.

if it's such a bad contract, then now is the time to trade Bronson, but that's up to another (better?) GM.

fearofpopvol1
07-24-2008, 09:53 AM
The resources of this team are only limited by this team.

This "we must cut X player to have money to sign Y player" is small market thinking and counterproductive. I highly doubt Jocketty is as worried about costs as many of the people on here are.

I'm on record as saying I want to keep Bronson. But to think the Reds have suddenly turned into the Yankees or even a team like the Tigers is unrealistic. Expensive contracts (and yes, Bronson's will be expensive starting next year) will factor into Jocketty's decision to keep or deal Bronson.

Falls City Beer
07-24-2008, 10:00 AM
Now is the time to trade Bronson. The time has never been better.

princeton
07-24-2008, 10:02 AM
Now is the time to trade Bronson. The time has never been better.

yup.

this week we'll discover whether Jocketty is patient, or dead.

REDREAD
07-24-2008, 11:11 AM
Now is the time to trade Bronson. The time has never been better.

That is a good point. He's more marketable than ever.

At the same time though, if we only get a Blanton like return for him.. forget it..

It seems like an interesting market this year. There's a lot more trades going on, but it seems as though it's still largely a buyer's market. Sellers are pouncing on reasonable (but not great) deals quickly before they evaporate.

Arroyo is going to be tough (if not impossible) to replace. Thompson, Malony, etc are a huge step down, even when you consider Bronson's inconsistency.

nate
07-24-2008, 11:33 AM
Get your salt ready for this chestnut (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/rockies-interes.html) from MLBTR:


Rockies Interested In Arroyo
By Tim Dierkes [July 24, 2008 at 10:19am CST]

According to Pat Rooney of the Rocky Mountain News, the Rockies are interested in starting pitcher Bronson Arroyo. Rooney says the Reds might be willing to pick up some of the $22.5MM owed to Arroyo for 2009-10.

Arroyo spoke out yesterday, saying he'd be disappointed if traded. If Walt Jocketty moves him, it won't be just a salary dump. The Yankees are said to be another possible suitor.

Reds Fanatic
07-24-2008, 01:31 PM
This is from Hal McCoy today about Arroyo wanting to stay:


Remember when Bronson Arroyo’s favorite song had the words, “Please Come to Boston” in them. No more. He wants to stay right in Cincinnati and if he has to eat five-way chili over New England clam chowder, so be it.

Arroyo, hearing the rumors of possible trades by the Reds, including dumping him and his salary, made an impassioned plea to stay after he won his fifth straight game Wednesday, beating the Sad (Yes, Sad, not San) Padres, 9-5.

Arroyo pleaded his case strongly and, yes, friends in New York tell him his name is mentioned loud and often about Yankee pin-stripes.

“Honestly, if they trade me, they’re saying, ‘That’s it, we’re not going to build a winning team here,’” he said. “The starters we have have a chance to pitch here a long time, health-wise and age-wise.

“If they go ahead and trade me out now because of the salary I’ll make next year ($25 million in 2009 and 2010), then I feel they’re just cashing in the money for a losing team,” Arroyo added.

“When I see Bob Castellini I feel like he’s a guy who wants to win and I don’t think he is ready to say, ‘That’s it. I’ve put in as much as I want to put in, then go ahead and start tearing the pieces apart. I hope the vibes I get from him are for real. If it’s not, I’ll have another surprise coming my way.”

Arroyo sees Edinson Volquez, Johnny Cueto, Aaron Harang, Homer Bailey and Daryl Thompson and sees a glossy future, with him in the middle.

There are no thoughts now of returning to Boston and he says, “Definitely, the last two years we have not had the pitching we have now. Everyone around here feels like things are starting to roll and there is no reason to panic.”

My thoughts. Keep him. I’ve already forgotten about the 10 runs he gave up in one inning in Toronto. If he pitches most of the time the way he is pitching now he is worth. What say ye?

Caveat Emperor
07-24-2008, 01:45 PM
Now is the time to trade Bronson. The time has never been better.

Serious question -- what do you think is fair value for a pitcher like Arroyo, given his past performance, recent performance, and contract?

macro
07-24-2008, 01:48 PM
Is it already up to 09/10 before the losing stops ? ;) :lastyear: 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010

Do you have no patience? The Reds are building for 2003 and the opening of the new Great American Ballpark. The increased revenues from the new facility will ensure that the Reds will field a contending team each season. These streaks of two playoff appearances in thirty years happen every now and then. You just have to ride them out.

:evil:

Spitball
07-24-2008, 02:59 PM
Rooney says the Reds might be willing to pick up some of the $22.5MM owed to Arroyo for 2009-10.

I wonder where Rooney gets this tidbit? Does he have some concrete evidence of this, or is he conjecturing up a scenario in order to add some "validity" to his story.

Unless the Reds are trying to pry away some real value from the Rockies, I can't imagine why they would pay any of Arroyo's salary.

RedEye
07-24-2008, 03:14 PM
Did someone already mention Clint Barmes? He might be part of a good return for Arroyo...

RedEye
07-24-2008, 03:15 PM
Or Garrett Atkins? Perhaps EdE could move to the outfield?

Falls City Beer
07-24-2008, 03:17 PM
Serious question -- what do you think is fair value for a pitcher like Arroyo, given his past performance, recent performance, and contract?

I think he could bring back a line-up-changing bat.

Chip R
07-24-2008, 03:28 PM
I think he could bring back a line-up-changing bat.


Really? I'm a little skeptical about that. I think that Bronson has value but if you're talking about someone like Kemp, I think the Reds would have to add a little extra to the deal and take on some of his salary.

Spitball
07-24-2008, 03:29 PM
I think he could bring back a line-up-changing bat.

Yeah, but that is exactly what Theo Epstein thought...;)

Falls City Beer
07-24-2008, 03:29 PM
Really? I'm a little skeptical about that. I think that Bronson has value but if you're talking about someone like Kemp, I think the Reds would have to add a little extra to the deal and take on some of his salary.

Well, they are talking about picking up some of the salary. And a close race can make folks do some strange things.

klw
07-24-2008, 04:24 PM
I doubt you get him but Chris Ianetta would be a nice target with the Rockies.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=28561

Falls City Beer
07-24-2008, 05:24 PM
I doubt you get him but Chris Ianetta would be a nice target with the Rockies.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=28561

I bet you could get Ianetta. And I bet that's who's being discussed, from Jocketty's end of things.

OnBaseMachine
07-24-2008, 06:59 PM
Arroyo plus Affeldt for Dexter Fowler. I'd do it.

Spring~Fields
07-24-2008, 07:10 PM
Do you have no patience? The Reds are building for 2003 and the opening of the new Great American Ballpark. The increased revenues from the new facility will ensure that the Reds will field a contending team each season. These streaks of two playoff appearances in thirty years happen every now and then. You just have to ride them out.

:evil:

Iíve already turned into an old fossil being patient, if I wait any longer it will take archeologist with metal detectors to find me. :)

OldXOhio
07-24-2008, 07:57 PM
Or Garrett Atkins? Perhaps EdE could move to the outfield?

Atkins might just be the odd man out if the Rox decide Stewart is their everyday 3B.

SMcGavin
07-24-2008, 07:58 PM
I bet you could get Ianetta. And I bet that's who's being discussed, from Jocketty's end of things.

If Arroyo gets traded, that's the kind of return it needs to be for. Major league talent that can fill a projected weakness over the next few seasons.

HokieRed
07-24-2008, 08:05 PM
Arroyo and Huston Street for Kemp?

OldXOhio
07-24-2008, 08:05 PM
I bet you could get Ianetta. And I bet that's who's being discussed, from Jocketty's end of things.

Saw the Rox play earlier in the week - Ianetta is good looking kid with the bat. Can't really comment on him defensively although on this night, he didn't have a very good game behind the plate.

GAC
07-24-2008, 08:32 PM
Arroyo is going to be tough (if not impossible) to replace.

I don't see how it wil be tough (or even impossible) to replace a pitcher who has been 32-33 in his tenure with the Reds, and shown such inconsistency.

A month ago the guy's value was in the tank. You couldn't have traded him for a saltine cracker. Now he's gotten hot over the last 2-3 weeks and we're talking about how he would be impossible to replace? The guy's been a yo-yo (up and down) since he's been a Red.

9.5 mil in '09, 11 mil in 2010, and a team option for 11 mil in 2011. And the 2011 option goes to 13 mil if he gets the IPs.

I'm not saying dump him; but if they can get a sound return on him, then I'd tell the guy to pack that guitar and JTMs. ;)


Thompson, Malony, etc are a huge step down, even when you consider Bronson's inconsistency.

Lets not forget Bailey. But these are all young pitchers. I'm not going to even try to predict/project what kind of major league careers these guys will have. It took Arroyo 5 years before he started to register any type of an impact (age 27).

Arroyo is replaceable IMO. And that is Walt's job if he decides to do so. ;)

Spitball
07-24-2008, 08:37 PM
I can't imagine why the Rockies would even consider trading Iannetta . He is beyond being a promising prospect and basically their starting catcher. He has performed much better than Torrealba, who is much more likely to be moved than Iannetta.

jojo
07-24-2008, 08:57 PM
I can't imagine why the Rockies would even consider trading Iannetta . He is beyond being a promising prospect and basically their starting catcher. He has performed much better than Torrealba, who is much more likely to be moved than Iannetta.


Ya, I would be surprised if the Rockies traded Iannetta.

Falls City Beer
07-24-2008, 09:29 PM
I can't imagine why the Rockies would even consider trading Iannetta . He is beyond being a promising prospect and basically their starting catcher. He has performed much better than Torrealba, who is much more likely to be moved than Iannetta.

Then they can do without a starter, a much more valuable commodity (albeit at a higher price).

Reds aren't really going to lose this thing if they don't get Ianetta. But frankly, there's not much else on the Rockies I'd want. Outside of Ianetta, they're a bad matchup.

Spring~Fields
07-24-2008, 09:34 PM
A month ago the guy's value was in the tank. You couldn't have traded him for a saltine cracker.

:lol:

Spring~Fields
07-24-2008, 09:36 PM
Arroyo and Huston Street for Kemp?

Can you get us a side dish of Billingsley with that Kemp ? :)

HokieRed
07-24-2008, 09:52 PM
Springfields,
Don't think we can get Billingsley too. But I'm surprised nobody's taken up my suggestions that looking at Street and/or Sherrill may be the first step of a package with somebody. Dodgers need relievers and starters. (and power hitting outfielders)

Spring~Fields
07-24-2008, 09:58 PM
Springfields,
Don't think we can get Billingsley too. But I'm surprised nobody's taken up my suggestions that looking at Street and/or Sherrill may be the first step of a package with somebody. Dodgers need relievers and starters. (and power hitting outfielders)

Seems like there would be a win-win in there somewhere between the three teams. Like they could actually help each other out.

You're right about Billingsley, I just like to dream, as I have been hung up on that of a Billingsley and Kemp most of the summer. Once the Reds got some pitching, I started getting greedy and want it all now. ;)

jojo
07-25-2008, 07:01 AM
Then they can do without a starter, a much more valuable commodity (albeit at a higher price).

Two years of control for a starter that looks like he'll be something close to league average (NL average no less) while being paid market rates is more valuable than controlling 5 cheap years of a starting catcher who plays credible major league defense while sporting a plus bat?

I'll take the catcher.

Falls City Beer
07-25-2008, 09:05 AM
Two years of control for a starter that looks like he'll be something close to league average (NL average no less) while being paid market rates is more valuable than controlling 5 cheap years of a starting catcher who plays credible major league defense while sporting a plus bat?

I'll take the catcher.

I guess it depends on whether you believe you can contend in the next two years. If you believe you can, then I take the pitcher every time.

jojo
07-25-2008, 09:08 AM
I guess it depends on whether you believe you can contend in the next two years. If you believe you can, then I take the pitcher every time.

But it's a lot easier to pick up a league average innings eater than a solid starting catcher with a plus bat....and that's the point, trading away the catcher makes it harder to contend.

Falls City Beer
07-25-2008, 09:10 AM
....and that's the point, trading away the catcher makes it harder to contend.

How do you know? A catcher gets, what, 250-300 ABs in a season?

And I'd say with the questions now surrounding Francis, the Rox need some starting pitching. From a defensive standpoint, they already have the excellent Torrealba. The Reds conversely have zilch behind the dish.

The trade does make some sense.

jojo
07-25-2008, 09:44 AM
How do you know? A catcher gets, what, 250-300 ABs in a season?

And I'd say with the questions now surrounding Francis, the Rox need some starting pitching. From a defensive standpoint, they already have the excellent Torrealba. The Reds conversely have zilch behind the dish.

The trade does make some sense.

A good catcher? You're talking 500 to 550 PAs and somewhere around 1000+ defensive innings.

I think your argument is ignoring an important point....Iannetta can play credible defense AND hit. That's a rare commodity for a catcher.

I think the trade makes a ton of sense for the Reds and not a lot of sense for the Rockies.

Falls City Beer
07-25-2008, 09:52 AM
A good catcher? You're talking 500 to 550 PAs and somewhere around 1000+ defensive innings.

I think your argument is ignoring an important point....Iannetta can play credible defense AND hit. That's a rare commodity for a catcher.

I think the trade makes a ton of sense for the Reds and not a lot of sense for the Rockies.

What percentage of MLB catchers see over 500 PAs in a season? I'm not sure Ianetta quite falls in the McCann/Posada class.

jojo
07-25-2008, 09:59 AM
What percentage of MLB catchers see over 500 PAs in a season? I'm not sure Ianetta quite falls in the McCann/Posada class.

Maybe about 10 a year will get 500 PAs.

klw
07-25-2008, 03:31 PM
I doubt you get him but Chris Ianetta would be a nice target with the Rockies.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=28561

Actually Chris Iannetta would be an even better target. Doh stupid!