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edabbs44
07-24-2008, 12:10 PM
Make it stop. Who is this team fooling that they are buyers? I really hope that they were there for another reason.


Trade winds
Scouts from the St. Louis Cardinals and the Milwaukee Brewers, the two most aggressive suitors for Orioles closer George Sherrill, attended last night's game. The Los Angeles Dodgers, Chicago Cubs, Cincinnati Reds, Philadelphia Phillies, Florida Marlins and Detroit Tigers were also among the teams represented.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.osnotes24jul24,0,1048863.story

Matt700wlw
07-24-2008, 12:12 PM
Nothing wrong with exploring all options available...even if they end up turning into nothing

edabbs44
07-24-2008, 12:13 PM
Nothing wrong with exploring all options available...even if they end up turning into nothing

Just a waste of time looking at a pitcher who is going to be in demand, if you ask me.

Matt700wlw
07-24-2008, 12:16 PM
It's hard to say unless we know exactly what Jocketty's plan is....which I don't.

Maybe he's looking to put a dominate bullpen together, to put less pressure on the young pitchers, who are sometimes going to struggle to get out of the 5th or 6th inning...

Maybe he's just getting a feel at what is out there...

Maybe these reports are inaccurate...

cumberlandreds
07-24-2008, 12:26 PM
The article just says the Reds were represented. It doesn't say who, if anyone, they were looking at. Could have been looking at Blue Jays?

jojo
07-24-2008, 12:27 PM
Sherrill is exactly the type of arm I was hoping the Reds would target-last off season.

He was almost exclusively used as a LOOGY by the Ms (he's lefty death) but clearly could have been leveraged much greater as the Os are now doing by using him as a closer. He also had very little service time and thus is cheaply controlled.

While I think Sherrill is really more of a stop gap closer (he doesn't have a super effective out pitch against righties and he has flyball tendencies), now Sherrill is an "established" closer so he's going to be harder to acquire because perception of his value has changed.

Closers and effective relievers in general, just aren't that hard to find.

blumj
07-24-2008, 12:38 PM
Closers and effective relievers in general, just aren't that hard to find.
I wonder why some teams always seem to manage to make it look hard, and other teams always manage to make it look easy.

RedsManRick
07-24-2008, 01:00 PM
Sherill is the perfect example of a guy with the golden "C". He's a 31 year old reliever with one above average season under his belt -- a season in which he was incredibly BABIP lucky. If he was a middle reliever, chances are most of us would never have heard of the guy. Unless you're in the heart of a playoff race and need to shore up your staff ASAP, it's just stupid to trade for a guy like this.

klw
07-24-2008, 01:05 PM
Article also says that St. Louis and the Brewers were there and have interest. if nothing else the trip would be helpful as advance scouting in case one of the other NL Central teams picks him up.

sonny
07-24-2008, 01:06 PM
he doesnt bend his bill. I don't want to see that. Its just tacky.

Matt700wlw
07-24-2008, 01:06 PM
he doesnt bend his bill. I don't want to see that. Its just tacky.

I guess CC's out in the offseason, then :)

jojo
07-24-2008, 01:20 PM
Sherill is the perfect example of a guy with the golden "C". He's a 31 year old reliever with one above average season under his belt -- a season in which he was incredibly BABIP lucky. If he was a middle reliever, chances are most of us would never have heard of the guy. Unless you're in the heart of a playoff race and need to shore up your staff ASAP, it's just stupid to trade for a guy like this.

While I wouldn't advocate the Reds pay in trade like theyre getting a Mariano Rivera, you're really underestimating the usefulness of Sherrill.

RedsManRick
07-24-2008, 01:23 PM
While I wouldn't advocate the Reds pay in trade like theyre getting a Mariano Rivera, you're really underestimating the usefulness of Sherrill.

I wouldn't mind having him around, don't get me wrong. But I don't think I'd want to give up a top prospect or two for him. With that many suitors and the way Angelos tends to micromanage, I can't imagine he'll be had for some mid-level prospects.

He's the sort of guy who goes from undervalued to overvalued in a heartbeat. The kind of guy Beane would acquire cheap, slap on the Golden C, and then flip for 3x what he got him for.

edabbs44
07-24-2008, 01:33 PM
While I wouldn't advocate the Reds pay in trade like theyre getting a Mariano Rivera, you're really underestimating the usefulness of Sherrill.

How far would he get this team? I wouldn't mind the Reds getting him, but at what cost?

jojo
07-24-2008, 02:00 PM
How far would he get this team? I wouldn't mind the Reds getting him, but at what cost?

Actually I think the chicken has flown the coup concerning trading for him. I'm not sure what the O's would want.

Concerning next season, Sherrill would be an upgrade over Affeldt/Bray as a lefty in the pen but probably not enough of one to justify what the O's might ask for.

mbgrayson
07-24-2008, 03:34 PM
Article also says that St. Louis and the Brewers were there and have interest. if nothing else the trip would be helpful as advance scouting in case one of the other NL Central teams picks him up.

I wonder if we aren't getting invloved just to drive up the price the O's get from the Cardinals or Brewers. We could make a solid, although low, offer just to keep our division rivals honest, and not let them get Sherrill for next to nothing.

princeton
07-24-2008, 03:39 PM
I wonder if we aren't getting invloved just to drive up the price the O's get from the Cardinals or Brewers. We could make a solid, although low, offer just to keep our division rivals honest, and not let them get Sherrill for next to nothing.

maybe.

or maybe we don't want to face him.

or maybe it's the fact that lefty hitters are killing us

Jpup
07-24-2008, 03:56 PM
The Reds don't need Sherill, but he would be nice to have I guess. I wouldn't give much for him because someone will overpay greatly and it will probably be Milwaukee.

The Reds need to be shopping Mike Lincoln and Jeremy Affeldt for a good return. I would like to keep Lincoln, but if someone is going to overpay, let him go.

Heath
07-24-2008, 03:59 PM
Don't we have a younger version of George Sherrill named Bill Bray?

:dunno:

Jpup
07-24-2008, 04:01 PM
Don't we have a younger version of George Sherrill named Bill Bray?

:dunno:

That was my first thought too.

jojo
07-24-2008, 04:07 PM
To be fair, lefties have no chance against Sherrill while Bray hasn't been all that impressive against hitters from either side.

danforsman
07-24-2008, 04:12 PM
I am continually amazed that Reds' fans who have endured the annual firesale each of the last 7-8 years are insistent that the Reds trade guys like Weathers, Affeldt and Lincoln, who are effectively getting batters out on a pretty regular basis. Do you really want to see more Coffey, Belisle and/or Majewski? Is it that pressing for you to keep a guy on the roster who is capable of doing his job, albeit for a higher salary than the major-league minimum?

I'm in favor of adding effective pitchers like Street or Sherrill at any time, assuming the price is reasonable (which admittedly is a significant assumption). Why would you not want to add a talented arm to your pen if the owner is willing to up the payroll to absorb his salary?

MasonBuzz3
07-24-2008, 04:12 PM
Don't we have a younger version of George Sherrill named Bill Bray?

:dunno:

too much curve in the brim of Bray's bill...sherrill blows away volquez, cueto, cc or anyone else with the ironed bill

Heath
07-24-2008, 04:34 PM
To be fair, lefties have no chance against Sherrill while Bray hasn't been all that impressive against hitters from either side.

True - but hasn't it been established that Sherrill is BABIP-lucky.

puca
07-24-2008, 04:38 PM
I am continually amazed that Reds' fans who have endured the annual firesale each of the last 7-8 years are insistent that the Reds trade guys like Weathers, Affeldt and Lincoln, who are effectively getting batters out on a pretty regular basis. Do you really want to see more Coffey, Belisle and/or Majewski? Is it that pressing for you to keep a guy on the roster who is capable of doing his job, albeit for a higher salary than the major-league minimum?

I'm in favor of adding effective pitchers like Street or Sherrill at any time, assuming the price is reasonable (which admittedly is a significant assumption). Why would you not want to add a talented arm to your pen if the owner is willing to up the payroll to absorb his salary?

Just two years ago Majewski and Coffey were every bit as "effective" as Sherrill has been this year. Is Sherrill really an effective releiver or is he a product of small sample size and/or limited exposure?

Houston Street has more of a track record, unfortunately that track record and arbitration status means he will be paid as a closer next year regardless of his role. Can the Reds carry two closers on their payroll next year? Should they?

*BaseClogger*
07-24-2008, 04:38 PM
How far would he get this team? I wouldn't mind the Reds getting him, but at what cost?

Exxxactly! :)

*BaseClogger*
07-24-2008, 04:41 PM
I am continually amazed that Reds' fans who have endured the annual firesale each of the last 7-8 years are insistent that the Reds trade guys like Weathers, Affeldt and Lincoln, who are effectively getting batters out on a pretty regular basis. Do you really want to see more Coffey, Belisle and/or Majewski? Is it that pressing for you to keep a guy on the roster who is capable of doing his job, albeit for a higher salary than the major-league minimum?

They've been effective in the past, but will they be effective in the future? It's 2009 and beyond I'm worried about. 2008 well... it's gone IMO...

jojo
07-24-2008, 05:13 PM
True - but hasn't it been established that Sherrill is BABIP-lucky.

I don't agree with the notion than his BABIP necessarily means he's been lucky. First, for his career, he's struck out 37% of the lefties he's faced. Second, this season his BABIP against lefties is actually .302-and he's still killing them. So looking at his career, I think you get pretty much what you see.

He does have a low career BABIP but it is driven by a minuscule BABIP against lefties (.236 for his career vs the more expected BABIP of .298 vs righties). In other words, like Blanton and his consistent posting of lower than expected HR/FB%, Sherrill may be an exception to the rule regarding his BABIP against lefties.

That said, I do agree with RMR's suggestion that luck played a part in Sherrill's career year of '07. During that season, Sherrill had a BABIP of .260 against righties while "dominating" them like he's never done before. As a point of reference, this season, righties are OPS' .771 against him despite another low BABIP of .274 against righties. That said, '07 also saw him cut his walk% in half as he showed greatly improved command against all hitters that season. So it was a combination of luck, command and relatively few innings that conflated in his favor IMHO.

PuffyPig
07-24-2008, 05:33 PM
I am continually amazed that Reds' fans who have endured the annual firesale each of the last 7-8 years are insistent that the Reds trade guys like Weathers, Affeldt and Lincoln, who are effectively getting batters out on a pretty regular basis.

I think the reason to trade Weathers, Linciln and Affeldt is because they are FA's after the season. We can always resign them if we want.

Kc61
07-24-2008, 06:33 PM
I think the reason to trade Weathers, Linciln and Affeldt is because they are FA's after the season. We can always resign them if we want.

I don't think the Reds can count on re-signing someone they trade away at the deadline. Doesn't happen that often.

Sherrill makes some sense for the Reds because he is a lefty. I'm not at all sure Affeldt will be back. A late inning lefty reliever would come in handy for next year.

The Reds interest in a reliever is not so far fetched if it is someone they can control for '09 and maybe 2010. The pen has been good this year, but a few of the guys aren't controlled beyond this season. Adding a quality signed reliever would be good for this year and beyond.

Red Heeler
07-24-2008, 09:49 PM
I don't think the Reds can count on re-signing someone they trade away at the deadline. Doesn't happen that often.

Sherrill makes some sense for the Reds because he is a lefty. I'm not at all sure Affeldt will be back. A late inning lefty reliever would come in handy for next year.

The Reds interest in a reliever is not so far fetched if it is someone they can control for '09 and maybe 2010. The pen has been good this year, but a few of the guys aren't controlled beyond this season. Adding a quality signed reliever would be good for this year and beyond.

A good trader could probably add Sherrill and flip Affeldt for similar prospects to those given up.

Ltlabner
07-24-2008, 10:44 PM
Just a waste of time looking at a pitcher who is going to be in demand, if you ask me.

Yea, I mean picking up the phone and making a phone call. That could wreck a GM's entire week.

Patrick Bateman
07-24-2008, 11:15 PM
A good trader could probably add Sherrill and flip Affeldt for similar prospects to those given up.

I disagree. The fact that Sherrill is closing right now changes his value. As wrong as that really is, it changes how the market perceives him. It's the reason that closers get a ton more money than set-up man due in arbitration and other avenues.

Because of it, Sherrill will have a lot more value than Affeldt, especially to teams that value the specific ability to close out games, and because of the platoon splits. I don't really think it's likely to come out even there starting with Affeldt.

Spring~Fields
07-24-2008, 11:56 PM
Make it stop. Who is this team fooling that they are buyers? I really hope that they were there for another reason.


They are probably just out there shaking the bushes to see what they might find.

Kc61
07-25-2008, 12:08 AM
I read someplace that the O's want a shortstop for Sherrill. Keppinger? AGon plus cash? Janish? Valaika?

Topcat
07-25-2008, 07:33 AM
Just a waste of time looking at a pitcher who is going to be in demand, if you ask me.

Um as Winnipeg Gold Eyes fan and local fan this guy has serious skills and ability's. if the price tag was Travis wood , Dickerson and Matt Maloney . Respectfully sir you jump that deal and improve the MLB teams roster incredibly.