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View Full Version : Big fight breaks out in the Dragons game..



medford
07-24-2008, 11:47 PM
I know this is minors related, and all contained in the thread there, but I figure there are more than a few of you that don't read that forum much that might want to give tonight's thread a view. Some interesting pictures in the DDN website, and a Cubbies minor league pitcher has been arrested.

Caveat Emperor
07-25-2008, 01:41 AM
There's video of the fight here -- http://www.wrgt45.com/

Looks unreal. Watch at the very end, right before the camera goes dead - #32 Jeff Jeffords on the Dragons takes a huge windup and is about to knock someone out.

LvJ
07-25-2008, 01:51 AM
WTF?! That pitcher threw a ball in to the crowd and hit a fan. Ban him from the game.

Degenerate39
07-25-2008, 01:57 AM
WTF?! That pitcher threw a ball in to the crowd and hit a fan. Ban him from the game.

Didn't Dibble do that one year?

MasonBuzz3
07-25-2008, 02:11 AM
tomorrow's series finale should be an interesting game....not your typical baseball brawl

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-25-2008, 03:02 AM
Dragons = Reds
Peoria = cubs

Hmmm...

UKFlounder
07-25-2008, 03:16 AM
Didn't Dibble do that one year?

He threw a ball over the outfield wall, from the mound area, so it was not quite as up-close or dangerous, but did hit a fan with it.

KronoRed
07-25-2008, 03:19 AM
WTF?! That pitcher threw a ball in to the crowd and hit a fan. Ban him from the game.

Better yet, arrest him and charge him with assault.

MasonBuzz3
07-25-2008, 03:23 AM
Better yet, arrest him and charge him with assault.

thats what happened. charged with felonious assault, arraignment Friday

37red
07-25-2008, 04:05 AM
Dibble did it with clear intent and he had quite an arm. The only thing stronger than his arm was his temper

Caveat Emperor
07-25-2008, 04:27 AM
thats what happened. charged with felonious assault, arraignment Friday

Raises an interesting legal argument...

You can charge a felonious assault a couple ways in the state of Ohio, but the two main definitions are:

1. Did knowingly cause serious physical harm to another
and
2. Did knowingly cause physical harm to another by means of a deadly weapon

Is a baseball, in the hands of a professional athlete capable of throwing 90+ MPH, a deadly weapon? I think the State could make a very strong argument for that being the case.

Now...as to whether his conduct was "knowing" or merely "reckless", that's a much bigger issue (and one that could mean the difference between this guy picking up a felony charge v. a misdemeanor).

klw
07-25-2008, 09:04 AM
Oh man Walt was at the game but he didn't run onto the field. Does he not support his squad?
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/8377762/Fan-injured,-17-ejected-in-Ohio-baseball-brawl

Given the ever broadening definition of a deadly weapon, a baseball would easily qualify.

BCubb2003
07-25-2008, 09:10 AM
Baseball as a deadly weapon:

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/players/maysca01.php

hebroncougar
07-25-2008, 09:19 AM
So the pitcher injured a fan. He needs to be banned, and charged with assault.

UKFlounder
07-25-2008, 09:25 AM
If the ball he threw had hit another player in the dugout instead of going into the stands, would he have been arrested for assualt in that case as well?

I think hockey has had this issue a couple of times in the past - at what point does an on-field fight come under the jurisdiction of civil authority, for just whatever happens on the actual field? (Obviously, anything involving the stands/fans in the stands falls under that)

redsmetz
07-25-2008, 09:59 AM
This is a complicated situation and just watching the video without a narration of the events makes it hard to figure how it all got out of control. The two umpires keeping Donnie Scott and the Chiefs coach (they're managed by Ryne Sandberg and I couldn't identify who this was from their website) suddenly spun off, apparently to make some ejections and all hell broke loose.

If the pitcher was the guy who hurled something off to the screen's left, that did not appear to be to the outfield. It seemed directly into the 3rd base seats and thrown very hard. Whether that constitutes felonious assault, I can't say, but if it is and he's convicted, he's gone. His visa will be revoked and he'll be deported. A very stupid, and moreso, dangerous thing to have done.

I like passion in a team, but I abhor violence and I've always found fights to be silly (and for the most part, look very stupid).

In an even stranger twist, the MWL reversed the ejections (15 in all) so neither team was forced to use pitchers in the outfield (at the behest of both the Reds and the Cubs organization). Obviously the powers that be of the Midwest League will have to sort through this whole mess and suspend folks according to what further investigation shows. I would hope the umpires will review how this situation got so out of hand too.

And then one of the Chiefs players broke his leg colliding with a teammate, Cozart left the game after being beaned and the fan was taken to the hospital. Just a horrible night at the ball yard, IMO.

Chip R
07-25-2008, 10:11 AM
This is a complicated situation and just watching the video without a narration of the events makes it hard to figure how it all got out of control. The two umpires keeping Donnie Scott and the Chiefs coach (they're managed by Ryne Sandberg and I couldn't identify who this was from their website) suddenly spun off, apparently to make some ejections and all hell broke loose.


The AP story said Carmelo Martinez was acting manager cause Sandberg was in Cooperstown for HOF induction weekend.

Reds Fanatic
07-25-2008, 10:13 AM
If the ball he threw had hit another player in the dugout instead of going into the stands, would he have been arrested for assualt in that case as well?

I think hockey has had this issue a couple of times in the past - at what point does an on-field fight come under the jurisdiction of civil authority, for just whatever happens on the actual field? (Obviously, anything involving the stands/fans in the stands falls under that)

He should be arrested charged whether it went in the stands or the dugout. A person throwing a ball the hard at close range can seriously hurt or kill someone. I was there in seats 5 rows behind that dugout the night before last night with my 3 and 6 year old nieces. There are little kids around there all the time and I hate to think how bad this could be if a kid was hit by a ball thrown that hard at close range.

RedLegSuperStar
07-25-2008, 10:18 AM
this from Rotoworld.com:


Low Single-A Peoria's Julio Castillo was arrested on felony assault charges after throwing a baseball into the stands and sending a fan to the hospital on Thursday.

Castillo was one of 15 or 17 players (depending on the report) ejected in a game against Dayton that included two beanings and a broken leg sustained by the fielder on a hard slide into second. With the managers already arguing, Castillo got the brawl started by firing a ball towards the Dayton dugout, apparently with the intention of drilling a player, not a fan. The 20-year-old Dominican is expected to be arraigned on Friday. It seems highly unlikely that he'll be back on a minor league mound this season, and if he's convicted of a felony, he'll probably have his visa revoked. To top it off, we imagine he's going to face a lawsuit as well.

NJReds
07-25-2008, 10:21 AM
Didn't Mario Soto once throw a ball at a Braves player from very close range? I thought he did ... but I don't recall if he hit the player (Claudell Washington?) or how long he was suspended.

mbgrayson
07-25-2008, 10:22 AM
There is a more detailed discussion of what happened and links to photos and videos in last night's minor league game thread (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70500&page=2). FYI.

smith288
07-25-2008, 10:25 AM
Send him to Gitmo. What trash.

redsmetz
07-25-2008, 10:54 AM
Just another thought, given the way things seemed to have gone, I think had the umpires had issued warnings after Cozart was hit, this might have been adverted. Remember one Chiefs' player was hit in the 1st inning (the fourth in the series) and then Cozart was hit. It sounds like things got heated after Cozart's replacement slid hard into one of the Chiefs and there was another brush back pitch. Had warnings been issued, ejection would have been immediate and perhaps this absurd dangerous situation would have been avoided.

The Youtube video from a fan gives a different perspective, although it's grainy at time and filled with profanity from fans in the stands.

cincinnati chili
07-25-2008, 11:54 AM
Didn't Mario Soto once throw a ball at a Braves player from very close range? I thought he did ... but I don't recall if he hit the player (Claudell Washington?) or how long he was suspended.

If I recall he threw a ball into a pile of people, but it may have been intended for Claudell. I don't recall.

OnBaseMachine
07-25-2008, 12:04 PM
Check out the video in this post:

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1702070&postcount=93

MartyFan
07-25-2008, 12:39 PM
Who was the player whose leg got broken?

This is sickening.

BTW, this is how the entire thing was described on the Dragons website.

http://www.daytondragons.com/pressbox/pressrelease/index.html?article_id=637


The game was delayed by one hour and nine minutes in the first inning when a fight broke out between the teams. Peoria acting manager Carmelo Martinez walked out of the first base dugout toward Dragons manager Donnie Scott and the two became involved in a heated argument between home plate and third base. Both benches emptied and Peoria pitcher Julio Castillo fired the baseball at full speed into the Dragons dugout, leading to a melee that took several minutes to wind down.

If it would have gone into the dugout it would have been an entirely different story but it went into the stands.

TOBTTReds
07-25-2008, 01:03 PM
Who was the player whose leg got broken?

This is sickening.

BTW, this is how the entire thing was described on the Dragons website.

http://www.daytondragons.com/pressbox/pressrelease/index.html?article_id=637



If it would have gone into the dugout it would have been an entirely different story but it went into the stands.

The broken leg occured on a grounder up the middle when the SS and 2B collided. It was completely unrelated to everything else. The dirty slide happened later.

hebroncougar
07-25-2008, 01:45 PM
I heard on the Fox News National Broadcast the pitcher is going to be facing felony assault charges.

Degenerate39
07-25-2008, 02:08 PM
I wish the Reds and Cubs would get in a fight like this. Have Freel drop kick someone like he did Janish.

SunDeck
07-25-2008, 02:44 PM
If I recall he threw a ball into a pile of people, but it may have been intended for Claudell. I don't recall.





On June 16, the Reds were playing the Atlanta Braves in Atlanta. Soto threw several brushback pitches at Braves slugger Claudell Washington. Washington tossed his bat in the direction of Soto, appeared to go out to retrieve it, but instead walked toward the mound. Umpire Lanny Harris attempted to restrain Washington. Harris was thrown to the ground. Soto used the distraction to punch Washington. Several of Washington's teammates attempted to hold Washington to the ground. While they were doing that, Soto fired the baseball into the crowd of players, striking Braves coach Joe Pignatano. He was suspended three games for this incident; Washington received a five-game suspension for shoving Lanny Harris.

BCubb2003
07-25-2008, 02:48 PM
Braves slugger Claudell Washington

slugger?

*BaseClogger*
07-25-2008, 02:53 PM
Is Castillo much of a prospect? :dunno:

flyer85
07-25-2008, 02:58 PM
Is Castillo much of a prospect? :dunno:I'd say he's more of a suspect at the moment. :D

Matt700wlw
07-25-2008, 04:09 PM
They play again tonight....that's a good idea

klw
07-25-2008, 04:28 PM
I have always wondered when players would start to get arrested for fights on the field. For instance, when Delmon Young threw the bat at the umpire in Pawtucket he was not charged yet the evidence for that was far stronger than most of the assault cases I was representing defendants on in Pawtucket at the time. He was taped by a number of cameras doing it and their were 5000 people or so watching. Hard to have a stronger case than that. The fact that it happens at a sporting event should be no excuse. Obviously there is a tradition of not charging people in this instance but why should there be one. In many respects it set a horrendous example. Now with most sports there is a consent to physical contact- ex. checking in hockey, slide tackles in soccer, elbowing in soccer, basketball, slides in baseball, running over th catcher, boxing out and picks in basketball, and everything in rugby and football. Yet fighting is outside the realm of consented to or priviledged physical contact. The fact it happens in front of a crowd should not make a fight different than a fight at home, the street or elsewhere. Most in the crowd or mob should not claim to be offended by the fight as based on the video earlier in the thread the crowd was ugly, applauding and enjoying the mayhem.

gonelong
07-25-2008, 04:47 PM
They play again tonight....that's a good idea

I'll be at the game ...

flyer85
07-25-2008, 04:48 PM
I'll be at the game ...bring your riot gear. :D

gonelong
07-25-2008, 05:03 PM
bring your riot gear. :D

This will be the closet I have been to a riot since about 1990 (give or take a year), Halloween, Ohio U. (!*@# Sarah! - I believe Sarah was OUs president?)

GL

Matt700wlw
07-25-2008, 05:06 PM
bring your riot gear. :D

http://www.moreaboutjesus.org/maj/images/07boxing.gif

Matt700wlw
07-25-2008, 05:07 PM
This will be the closet I have been to a riot since about 1990 (give or take a year), Halloween, Ohio U. (!*@# Sarah! - I believe Sarah was OUs president?)

GL

I was almost in the riot downtown back in the mid 90s when Seven Mary Three was playing Pepsi Jammin' on Main...

My dad and I got out of there before all hell broke loose....I know somebody who got gassed though by cops.

BCubb2003
07-25-2008, 05:19 PM
This will be the closet I have been to a riot since about 1990 (give or take a year), Halloween, Ohio U. (!*@# Sarah! - I believe Sarah was OUs president?)

GL

I was a townie in Athens. It gets old.

CTA513
07-25-2008, 05:23 PM
bring your riot gear. :D

and video camera.

Matt700wlw
07-25-2008, 05:25 PM
and video camera.

Absolutely. We need documentation.

gonelong
07-25-2008, 05:47 PM
I was a townie in Athens. It gets old.

I bet. I was 20 or 21, I had a ball. :)

GL

Reds Fanatic
07-25-2008, 05:53 PM
Castillo had his bail set at $50,000 this afternoon.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/dragons/2008/07/25/ddn072508pitcherweb.html


DAYTON — A judge on Friday set a $50,000 cash bond for Peoria Chiefs pitcher Julio Castillo on a felonious assault charge stemming from his beaning of a fan Thursday during a brawl between his team and the Dayton Dragons at Fifth Third Field.

Castillo appeared via video Friday afternoon, July 25, before Dayton Municipal Judge Carl S. Henderson. Castillo, speaking through an interpreter, told the judge his passport is with his teammates in Peoria, and Henderson ordered that the passport be surrendered.

Preliminary hearing set for 9 a.m. Aug. 1

Castillo's attorney, Kevin Braig, said Castillo has no prior offenses and the team takes the charge very seriously.

Castillo is being held in the Montgomery County Jail.

Dayton police arrested and charged Castillo after his errant pitch hit 44-year-old Middletown resident Chris McCarthy. Castillo, a resident of the Dominican Republic, told Dayton police he intended to hit someone in the Dragons' dugout, according to a police report

McCarthy could not be reached for comment Friday. He was interviewed by two Middletown detectives on Friday who said McCarthy plans to avoid all contact with the news media.

According to the Peoria Chiefs Web site, Castillo was drafted into the Chicago Cubs organization in 2004. He has played for the Chiefs since the beginning of the season and also played for them for a while at the start of the 2007 season.

Matt700wlw
07-25-2008, 05:57 PM
"I went to a fight and a baseball game broke out"

RFS62
07-26-2008, 11:05 AM
I have always wondered when players would start to get arrested for fights on the field. For instance, when Delmon Young threw the bat at the umpire in Pawtucket he was not charged yet the evidence for that was far stronger than most of the assault cases I was representing defendants on in Pawtucket at the time. He was taped by a number of cameras doing it and their were 5000 people or so watching. Hard to have a stronger case than that. The fact that it happens at a sporting event should be no excuse. Obviously there is a tradition of not charging people in this instance but why should there be one. In many respects it set a horrendous example. Now with most sports there is a consent to physical contact- ex. checking in hockey, slide tackles in soccer, elbowing in soccer, basketball, slides in baseball, running over th catcher, boxing out and picks in basketball, and everything in rugby and football. Yet fighting is outside the realm of consented to or priviledged physical contact. The fact it happens in front of a crowd should not make a fight different than a fight at home, the street or elsewhere. Most in the crowd or mob should not claim to be offended by the fight as based on the video earlier in the thread the crowd was ugly, applauding and enjoying the mayhem.



Nice post.

I think athletes should get a little more leeway than normal citizens. If a couple of players trade punches after a hard play and it stops there, I can't see charging them. But when you have time to think and you still go after someone with bad intent, that's different.

BCubb2003
07-26-2008, 11:15 AM
Implied consent is an interesting idea. It might apply to knowing that sometimes the pitcher's going to throw at you, or the batter's going to charge the mound, or the runner's going to come him spikes high, or the catcher's going to block the plate, or get knocked over. But it shouldn't apply to firing a ball at an unsuspecting player, or Juan Marichal pounding on John Roseboro with a bat.

RFS62
07-26-2008, 11:44 AM
Implied consent is an interesting idea. It might apply to knowing that sometimes the pitcher's going to throw at you, or the batter's going to charge the mound, or the runner's going to come him spikes high, or the catcher's going to block the plate, or get knocked over. But it shouldn't apply to firing a ball at an unsuspecting player, or Juan Marichal pounding on John Roseboro with a bat.


Yeah, I think each sport has its threshold for acceptable levels of fighting and rough play. Marichal went totally nutty that day with Roseboro. If that happened today, there might be the same kind of charges filed.

Unassisted
07-26-2008, 02:40 PM
You can tell this is a slow time for sports news. I have heard or seen stories about this brawl on no less than 6 different national sports and news TV and radio outlets... as well as the local news here in Pittsburgh. Every time I see the footage of the fight, I read the names on the back of the jerseys to see if I recognize them from discussions here.

Chip R
10-29-2008, 10:30 PM
Of course the Cubs didn't release this scum.

http://sports.espn.go.com/minorlbb/news/story?id=3671591

Cubs prospect indicted on assault counts in fan injury in Ohio
Associated Press

Updated: October 29, 2008, 6:52 PM ET

DAYTON, Ohio -- A minor league pitcher accused of throwing a ball that hit a fan in the forehead was indicted Wednesday on two counts of felonious assault.

Julio Castillo, 21, who was pitching for the Peoria Chiefs of the Midwest League, is accused of throwing into the stands during a July 24 game at Dayton that featured a 10-minute, benches-clearing brawl. The fan was treated for a concussion at a hospital and released.

A Montgomery County grand jury indicted Castillo on one count of felonious assault with a deadly weapon and one count of felonious assault causing serious physical harm.

Castillo was attempting to hit a Dayton player in the dugout, but instead struck the fan in the head, according to the Montgomery County prosecutor's office.

Prosecutor Mathias Heck Jr. said Castillo threw the baseball to purposely hurt someone, putting spectators that included children in danger.

"There is no excuse for this type of behavior, whether it's in a ball park or a back alley," Heck said. "Fans should not be subjected to violence because a player is unable to control his temper."

Defense attorney Dennis Lieberman said Castillo, who is from the Dominican Republic, will plead not guilty. Lieberman said the charges aren't justified by the circumstances and his client has a good defense.

"In my research, I have found this to be an unprecedented indictment in American baseball," Lieberman said. "These are very serious charges that could destroy this kid's chance of ever playing baseball in the United States again."

If convicted on both counts, Castillo could face up to 16 years in prison. He is scheduled to be arraigned Nov. 13.

The Chiefs are an affiliate of the Chicago Cubs, and Castillo remains in the Cubs' organization.

WMR
10-29-2008, 10:34 PM
"These are very serious charges that could destroy this kid's chance of ever playing baseball in the United States again."

Hmm, well, maybe the punk SHOULDN'T be playing baseball in the United States ever again. :rolleyes:

Highlifeman21
10-29-2008, 10:44 PM
Well, he's young (21), so the Cubs probably didn't release him b/c they felt that he's still a work in progress and they can harness his control so that the next time he's trying to throw a ball into the opponent's dugout, he hits the dugout, and not a fan.

Now if the kid was say 24, 25 or older, they probably would have concluded that his control was more fully developed, and that he would have no future hope of hitting the dugout if the dugout were to be his target.

klw
10-29-2008, 11:23 PM
If the Cubs released him they probably would have been on the hook for some money. Now that he has indicted it would be easier to invoke a morals clause in his contract. If he is convicted as charged he will be most likely be unable to get a visa to reenter the US and the contract will be an easy void.

Caveat Emperor
10-30-2008, 12:16 AM
I'm kinda curious as to how this case will turn out. I don't think the "serious physical harm" charge carries weight for the state -- being treated and released for a concussion usually probably won't be enough to get a guilty (although there is case law out there that says any injury that requires hospitalization can be classified as "serious physical harm").

The deadly weapon charge is interesting; a deadly weapon is "any object capable of inflicting death" -- bludgeoning objects such as baseball bats can be deadly weapons, and other heavy weapons (such as a B.B. Gun, when used as a bludgeon) have been held to be deadly weapons as well. Certainly a baseball is capable of inflicting death if thrown with sufficient velocity, so I think there's technically an argument to be made here. What helps the state here is that the baseball was thrown in the exact manner that would be required for it to inflict death in other circumstances.

It'll be interesting to see how this gets resolved. The defendant here has a gigantic incentive to fight the charge, not only to avoid jail time but also to ensure he keeps getting a visa to play ball in the United States.

hebroncougar
10-30-2008, 09:19 AM
Hey, he could be an important cog in the wheel for the next Cubs world series drive. Oh wait............;)

Chip R
07-21-2009, 05:57 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/minorlbb/news/story?id=4344929

Caveat Emperor
07-21-2009, 08:19 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/minorlbb/news/story?id=4344929

Frankly, I'm shocked the case got indicted as a felony. Seemed to me to be more of a reckless assault (m1) than a felonious assault (f2)

The State will struggle to prove this requisite mental state for culpability on this one, IMO -- but I've been known to be wrong in the past about these sorts of things.

WMR
07-21-2009, 08:22 PM
Seems like grandstanding by the DA to me, CE.

I must say that a year after making my initial post, some reason needs to come into play as to how this incident should conclude. He did a stupid thing and should be punished but he obviously wasn't trying to hit a fan and, in the final analysis, everyone involved survived the incident. The player's entire career should not be ended because of this unfortunate incident which resulted from a split-second boneheaded decision. Just thank God that no one was killed or permanently injured.

You would think that the Judge would highly encourage them to reach some sort of settlement/plea.

acredsfan
07-22-2009, 12:05 AM
If you fire a gun towards a crowd not trying to kill anybody, but just to scare people and end up striking someone you will be charged with felonious assault. I don't care that the odds of killing someone with a baseball is much less than will a gun, it's the same principle. If he would have struck an infant the result could have been much worse. I would allow him back in baseball....eventually. Make him sit out the rest of this year while getting help for anger management. He just needs to feel very fortunate that he didn't injure someone much worse. I don't know the answer for the criminal trial, but I would feel the need for justice if I was in the fan's position.

reds44
07-22-2009, 12:48 AM
If you fire a gun towards a crowd not trying to kill anybody, but just to scare people and end up striking someone you will be charged with felonious assault. I don't care that the odds of killing someone with a baseball is much less than will a gun, it's the same principle. If he would have struck an infant the result could have been much worse. I would allow him back in baseball....eventually. Make him sit out the rest of this year while getting help for anger management. He just needs to feel very fortunate that he didn't injure someone much worse. I don't know the answer for the criminal trial, but I would feel the need for justice if I was in the fan's position.
So everytime a pitcher throws at a hitter in baseball, should they be charged with felonious assault?

dougdirt
07-22-2009, 02:28 AM
So everytime a pitcher throws at a hitter in baseball, should they be charged with felonious assault?

In theory, yes. However in sports there is more 'wiggle room'. Hockey fights don't have charges pressed, but if it happened between two people in the crowd they will be heading to jail.