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View Full Version : Treatment of Bartman is reason the Cubs are losers...



Wheelhouse
07-25-2008, 10:08 AM
...not the goat. I'm bringing this up because of the $25,000 offer that's been in the press. People basically tried to wreck this guy's life, for what, trying to catch a ball in the stands? Let me ask you guys this, when a ball is hit during a game, do you watch the ball, or check for players pursuing it? I happen to watch the ball. And even if, at the crack of bat you immediately scan the field to see who's taking a route on the ball, wouldn't you at least try to make sure a ball heading right for you doesn't hit you? Those things are hard you know. And what about all the other fans next to Bartman who were all trying to catch the ball too, why weren't they hounded, since their evil intent was the same. Marty is right, the Cubs are cursed because of the low quality of their fans. I hope the Cubs win the division so they may suffer in the playoffs again.

Chip R
07-25-2008, 10:10 AM
As seen by the Dayton game last night, even their minor league players are scum.

Cyclone792
07-25-2008, 10:30 AM
Let me ask you guys this, when a ball is hit during a game, do you watch the ball, or check for players pursuing it?

If I'm sitting in an area where a player can legitimately reach into the seats to catch a ball, then I watch both.

If it's a Reds fielder pursuing the ball, then I get the heck out of the way and yell at others to do the same so as to give the Reds fielder his best opportunity to reach into the stands and make the catch. If it's an opposing fielder, then I'll do what I can to prevent that player from catching the ball (provided it's going to land in foul territory; if it's going to land in fair territory then just hold your ground in the stands but leave the ball alone).

Johnny Footstool
07-25-2008, 10:37 AM
Remember Moises Alou dancing around like a 2 year-old having a temper tantrum?

Chip R
07-25-2008, 10:42 AM
If I'm sitting in an area where a player can legitimately reach into the seats to catch a ball, then I watch both.

If it's a Reds fielder pursuing the ball, then I get the heck out of the way and yell at others to do the same so as to give the Reds fielder his best opportunity to reach into the stands and make the catch. If it's an opposing fielder, then I'll do what I can to prevent that player from catching the ball (provided it's going to land in foul territory; if it's going to land in fair territory then just hold your ground in the stands but leave the ball alone).


Since that stadium was packed and Bartman wasn't the only one going for that ball, it would have been difficult, if not impossible to just get out of the way. At a Reds game that probably wouldn't be a problem. You also have to protect yourself. You don't want to just stand there idly and let the ball conk you on the cabesa. If it wasn't Bartman, it was gonna be someone else cause the other Cubs fans weren't exactly shrinking violets there.

Cyclone792
07-25-2008, 10:54 AM
Since that stadium was packed and Bartman wasn't the only one going for that ball, it would have been difficult, if not impossible to just get out of the way. At a Reds game that probably wouldn't be a problem. You also have to protect yourself. You don't want to just stand there idly and let the ball conk you on the cabesa. If it wasn't Bartman, it was gonna be someone else cause the other Cubs fans weren't exactly shrinking violets there.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/04l09Z0aN9bW9/340x.jpg

Bartman and the clown in the gray should have left the ball alone. Look at the dude in the blue hat between Bartman and the clown in the gray shirt. That guy is leaning back away from the railing and giving Alou space to make the grab. He was probably trying to avoid getting hit with the ball more than anything, but the idea was still correct ... get out of the way and let your team's fielder try to make a play.

Protecting yourself from a ball isn't difficult. Read the ball, figure out where it's going to land, and then do what's necessary. If it's your team's defender, take a step out of the way or lean out of the way, much like the guy between Bartman and the clown in the gray.

Chip R
07-25-2008, 11:10 AM
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/04l09Z0aN9bW9/340x.jpg

Bartman and the clown in the gray should have left the ball alone. Look at the dude in the blue hat between Bartman and the clown in the gray shirt. That guy is leaning back away from the railing and giving Alou space to make the grab. He was probably trying to avoid getting hit with the ball more than anything, but the idea was still correct ... get out of the way and let your team's fielder try to make a play.

Protecting yourself from a ball isn't difficult. Read the ball, figure out where it's going to land, and then do what's necessary. If it's your team's defender, take a step out of the way or lean out of the way, much like the guy between Bartman and the clown in the gray.


The only reason that dude in the blue hat wasn't going after the ball was cause the guy in the gray jacket and Bartman were blocking him.

Cyclone792
07-25-2008, 11:20 AM
The only reason that dude in the blue hat wasn't going after the ball was cause the guy in the gray jacket and Bartman were blocking him.

Possibly, but the point remains the same: get out of the way if your team's defender has a chance to make a play.

But unfortunately a great deal of baseball fans are idiots, and that's why we see game after game fans screwing up a play for their team's players. Or we see fans reaching out and grabbing fair balls hit down the line, or reaching over the fence trying to catch "home run" balls that won't even clear the fence.

jojo
07-25-2008, 11:26 AM
I'm pretty sure that the woman with the red scarf wanted no part of the ball.

Just my opinion too, but I think the guy in the blue hat thinks it's a grenade.

Chip R
07-25-2008, 11:26 AM
Possibly, but the point remains the same: get out of the way if your team's defender has a chance to make a play.

But unfortunately a great deal of baseball fans are idiots, and that's why we see game after game fans screwing up a play for their team's players. Or we see fans reaching out and grabbing fair balls hit down the line, or reaching over the fence trying to catch "home run" balls that won't even clear the fence.


Yeah but a lot of it is instinct. They are thinking, "Oh, I could get a foul ball!" and they forget about who's on the field or what the situation is. They're so crazy-go nuts over a foul ball or any kind of ball that they aren't thinking straight.

jojo
07-25-2008, 11:28 AM
Possibly, but the point remains the same: get out of the way if your team's defender has a chance to make a play.

But unfortunately a great deal of baseball fans are idiots, and that's why we see game after game fans screwing up a play for their team's players. Or we see fans reaching out and grabbing fair balls hit down the line, or reaching over the fence trying to catch "home run" balls that won't even clear the fence.

Real Cubs fans would've been stuffing their "drop" ball into MA's glove though he would've had a tough time explaining how he caught 3-4 balls......

Strikes Out Looking
07-25-2008, 11:37 AM
Shouldn't the title of this thread be "Treatment of Bartman is only one of the reasons the Cubs are losers"?

I'm glad to see the Reds minor leaguers going up against the Cubs minor leaguers. Now if we could just get the guys in the big leagues to get that fire going against the Cubs (and Cards and Brewers) we'd have something.

traderumor
07-25-2008, 11:40 AM
The guy in the blue shirt looks like he was screaming like a girl who saw a mouse.

Degenerate39
07-25-2008, 11:42 AM
It's funny that Bartman isn't the only one reaching for the ball but he gets all the crap for it.

VR
07-25-2008, 12:56 PM
So, cyclone, are you saying the fans continued persecution is called for? (just checking to see if you are perhaps a Cubs fan apologist) :)

Cyclone792
07-25-2008, 01:03 PM
So, cyclone, are you saying the fans continued persecution is called for? (just checking to see if you are perhaps a Cubs fan apologist) :)

Nah, but he was an idiot for reaching out for that ball ... same as that other guy near him. Of course he can't undo it so people should just let him move on as well. But it is beautiful irony in a way, because they're all Cubs fans ... and ultimately it was one of their own who was an idiot and cost their team a possible out in a crucial LCS game.

KronoRed
07-25-2008, 01:15 PM
Remember Moises Alou dancing around like a 2 year-old having a temper tantrum?

I remember the current manager of the Reds basically giving cub fans the green light on blaming it all on Bartman.

cincrazy
07-25-2008, 01:29 PM
Nah, but he was an idiot for reaching out for that ball ... same as that other guy near him. Of course he can't undo it so people should just let him move on as well. But it is beautiful irony in a way, because they're all Cubs fans ... and ultimately it was one of their own who was an idiot and cost their team a possible out in a crucial LCS game.

Bartman certainly should have not reached for the ball, I agree there. But I find it comical that the Cubs and their fans blame him for that loss. Their young stud pitcher melted down late in game 6, their sure handed shortstop booted a routine groundball, their LF lost his composure like a 5 year old who was told he couldn't have a sucker, AND it was only game 6!!! They had the lead in game 7, and their other stud young pitcher blew yet ANOTHER lead late in the game. Much like Buckner in 86, Bartman has caught way too much heat over the years.

RedsManRick
07-25-2008, 01:31 PM
The fact that there's more hatred for Bartman rather than towards the player's who blew the lead through crappy play is ridiculous. If their SS had fielded a ball properly, the Cubs could have won. Where's the vitriol for him?

Wheelhouse
07-25-2008, 01:38 PM
If I'm sitting in an area where a player can legitimately reach into the seats to catch a ball, then I watch both.

If it's a Reds fielder pursuing the ball, then I get the heck out of the way and yell at others to do the same so as to give the Reds fielder his best opportunity to reach into the stands and make the catch. If it's an opposing fielder, then I'll do what I can to prevent that player from catching the ball (provided it's going to land in foul territory; if it's going to land in fair territory then just hold your ground in the stands but leave the ball alone).

The difference for Bartman being that people were packed around him. At GABP there's always plenty of room to roam in the empty stands. Crucifying a guy for a momentary judgement at a ballgame is utterly ridiculous.

Cyclone792
07-25-2008, 01:45 PM
The difference for Bartman being that people were packed around him.

Actually all he had to do to stay out of the way is not stand up. Or if he wants to stand up, to not lean over the railing.

It's kind of like understanding that Adam Dunn is a productive hitter; it's not difficult to do.


Crucifying a guy for a momentary judgement at a ballgame is utterly ridiculous.

Indicating that Bartman shouldn't have reached after that ball and "crucifying" him are hardly the same.

Wheelhouse
07-25-2008, 01:46 PM
Possibly, but the point remains the same: get out of the way if your team's defender has a chance to make a play.

But unfortunately a great deal of baseball fans are idiots, and that's why we see game after game fans screwing up a play for their team's players. Or we see fans reaching out and grabbing fair balls hit down the line, or reaching over the fence trying to catch "home run" balls that won't even clear the fence.

Yeah, you're right. They go over and over that play from the start of fan Spring Training. C'mon dude. This is a split second thing. The Cubs fans are idiots. Do you think that might happen in Cincinnati? I don't, though it might on Redszone!

Wheelhouse
07-25-2008, 01:48 PM
Actually all he had to do to stay out of the way is not stand up. Or if he wants to stand up, to not lean over the railing.

It's kind of like understanding that Adam Dunn is a productive hitter; it's not difficult to do.



Indicating that Bartman shouldn't have reached after that ball and "crucifying" him are hardly the same.

NOTE: Cyclone has brought up the subject of Adam Dunn, not me. Response: Seems like a good many GM's are having that very difficulty.

Cyclone792
07-25-2008, 01:50 PM
NOTE: Cyclone has brought up the subject of Adam Dunn, not me. Response: Seems like a good many GM's are having that very difficulty.

It's called a simile.

Wheelhouse
07-25-2008, 01:51 PM
It's called a simile.

Nay, it's called baiting.

Chip R
07-25-2008, 02:01 PM
All right, get this thread back on topic or I'll close it.

Highlifeman21
07-25-2008, 02:59 PM
The fact that there's more hatred for Bartman rather than towards the player's who blew the lead through crappy play is ridiculous. If their SS had fielded a ball properly, the Cubs could have won. Where's the vitriol for him?

Wasn't that our current SS on the 60 Day DL?

Or was that Alex S. Gonzalez?

Highlifeman21
07-25-2008, 03:02 PM
I know at some ballparks they instruct you in the program, and typically with an announcement on the JumboTron not to interfere with play. If you're within the 1st 5 rows of the field, you're in play in my book.

Get outta the way when your team's trying to make a play, subtly interfere with the other team while they're trying to make a play.

It's not rocket science, and we're certainly not trying to reinvent the wheel here people...

Jpup
07-25-2008, 03:13 PM
I guess they can blame CC Sabathia this year.

Chip R
07-25-2008, 03:15 PM
Wasn't that our current SS on the 60 Day DL?

Or was that Alex S. Gonzalez?


Alex S.


I know at some ballparks they instruct you in the program, and typically with an announcement on the JumboTron not to interfere with play. If you're within the 1st 5 rows of the field, you're in play in my book.

Get outta the way when your team's trying to make a play, subtly interfere with the other team while they're trying to make a play.

It's not rocket science, and we're certainly not trying to reinvent the wheel here people...

In my book, if it's in the stands, it's fair game. If it's over the playing field, don't interfere.

Wheelhouse
07-25-2008, 04:21 PM
Alex S.



In my book, if it's in the stands, it's fair game. If it's over the playing field, don't interfere.

Actually, that's MLB's rule. A fan who interferes with a play on the field is removed from the stadium. When it's in the stands all is OK.

REDREAD
07-25-2008, 05:34 PM
All right, get this thread back on topic or I'll close it.

Ok.. Bartman is an idiot.. no he's not..

:)

Actually, I agree that the Cubs blew game 6 and 7 on their own, and it's very childish to blame a fan.

GAC
07-25-2008, 09:29 PM
All I care is that it was a CUB fan unknowingly screwing his own team. :lol:

There isn't a person on here, if in that same situation, who won't have reached out and tried to catch that ball. I know I would have because I know Adam Dunn wouldn't even be anywhere near there anyway. :p:

Was Bartman at fault for what happened afterwards?....

Following the incident the Marlins scored eight runs, six of them unearned:

Castillo, given new life, drew a walk. Ball four was a wild pitch from Cubs starter Mark Prior, which allowed Pierre to advance to third base.

Iván Rodríguez singled to drive in the first run of the inning, making the score 3-1.

Miguel Cabrera hit a ground ball to Alex S. Gonzalez, who misfielded the ball. Had Gonzalez fielded the ball properly, the Cubs could possibly have ended the half-inning with a double play. Instead all runners were safe and the bases were loaded.

Derrek Lee doubled, tying the score and chasing Prior from the game.

Relief pitcher Kyle Farnsworth issued an intentional walk, then gave up a sacrifice fly to give Florida a 4-3 lead. Another intentional walk again loaded the bases.

A bases-clearing double from Mike Mordecai broke the game open, making the score 7-3.

Pierre singled to put Florida ahead 8-3.

Finally Luis Castillo, whose foul popup initiated the controversy, popped out to second to end the inning.

In total, the Marlins had sent twelve batters to the plate and scored eight runs. Florida won the game 8-3.

oneupper
07-25-2008, 09:58 PM
Actually, that's MLB's rule. A fan who interferes with a play on the field is removed from the stadium. When it's in the stands all is OK.

IIRC, Bartman was removed from the stands. Was that because it was deemed the ball was in play or for his own safety?

Chip R
07-25-2008, 10:55 PM
IIRC, Bartman was removed from the stands. Was that because it was deemed the ball was in play or for his own safety?


The latter, I believe.

919191
07-26-2008, 01:47 AM
All I care is that it was a CUB fan unknowingly screwing his own team. :lol:

There isn't a person on here, if in that same situation, who won't have reached out and tried to catch that ball. I know I would have because I know Adam Dunn wouldn't even be anywhere near there anyway. :p:

Was Bartman at fault for what happened afterwards?....

Following the incident the Marlins scored eight runs, six of them unearned:

Castillo, given new life, drew a walk. Ball four was a wild pitch from Cubs starter Mark Prior, which allowed Pierre to advance to third base.

Iván Rodríguez singled to drive in the first run of the inning, making the score 3-1.

Miguel Cabrera hit a ground ball to Alex S. Gonzalez, who misfielded the ball. Had Gonzalez fielded the ball properly, the Cubs could possibly have ended the half-inning with a double play. Instead all runners were safe and the bases were loaded.

Derrek Lee doubled, tying the score and chasing Prior from the game.

Relief pitcher Kyle Farnsworth issued an intentional walk, then gave up a sacrifice fly to give Florida a 4-3 lead. Another intentional walk again loaded the bases.

A bases-clearing double from Mike Mordecai broke the game open, making the score 7-3.

Pierre singled to put Florida ahead 8-3.

Finally Luis Castillo, whose foul popup initiated the controversy, popped out to second to end the inning.

In total, the Marlins had sent twelve batters to the plate and scored eight runs. Florida won the game 8-3.

Is that from memory?:)

919191
07-26-2008, 01:49 AM
Wasn't that our current SS on the 60 Day DL?

Or was that Alex S. Gonzalez?

Was it one of the Gonzalez's a few years back blew the last game of some Winter League World Series game when a ball bounced off his head as he ran after it into short left field?