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View Full Version : Nady & Marte Traded To The Yankees



RedLegSuperStar
07-25-2008, 07:54 PM
The Trade (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=958)

I guess the Yankees won't be adding Adam Dunn then...

Buckeye33
07-25-2008, 08:09 PM
Update: Peter Abraham is reporting via his blog that Phil Coke, a pitcher at Double-A Trenton has been pulled from his game. It’s expected, but not confirmed, that he is one of the players headed to Pittsburgh. I’ve also just learned that Ross Ohlendorf and at least one other player, perhaps two, will be the cost of Nady and Marte.

So it sounds like the Pirates got a bunch of 2nd rate prospects for 2 pretty decent players. Not a good sign for the market right now.

LvJ
07-25-2008, 08:11 PM
WTF are the Pirates doing? That return is garbage.

Buckeye33
07-25-2008, 08:12 PM
Update: The final package from the Yankees is Ross Ohlendorf, Jose Tabata, Phil Coke, and George Kontos, according to multiple sources. Rotoworld is reporting a different set of prospects, including Austin Jackson, so I continue to follow this.

guttle11
07-25-2008, 08:16 PM
Please don't trade Dunn. Risk him walking...the draft picks might not become crappy prospects.

flyer85
07-25-2008, 08:21 PM
I still expect the Yanks to acquire a catcher as well.

KronoRed
07-25-2008, 08:57 PM
WTF are the Pirates doing? That return is garbage.

They are making sure we stay out of the basement.

Thanks Pirates!

_Sir_Charles_
07-25-2008, 09:03 PM
I wouldn't say it was "garbage" but they definitely should've gotten more. Tabata has been one of their top 3 prospects for the past few years. The problem is, the best Pirate prospect is also an OF'er. They need top-notch pitching prospects of the starter variety. And I don't see that in this deal. Poor job by the Pirates GM IMO.

flyer85
07-25-2008, 09:08 PM
it's a buyers market ... best to just hang on then

RedLegSuperStar
07-25-2008, 09:15 PM
Marte is solid.. maybe this lowers the price of Street and Sherrill

MasonBuzz3
07-25-2008, 09:35 PM
WTF are the Pirates doing? That return is garbage.

ummm.....being the pirates?

CrackerJack
07-25-2008, 10:07 PM
ummm.....being the pirates?

Yep. It's just what they do.

MasonBuzz3
07-25-2008, 10:26 PM
just thinking out loud, but maybe the Reds should inquire about Jason Bay as a possible Jr. replacement....perhaps

AmarilloRed
07-25-2008, 10:43 PM
just thinking out loud, but maybe the Reds should inquire about Jason Bay as a possible Jr. replacement....perhaps

I would think Bruce will be Jr's replacement in right field next year.

Tony Cloninger
07-25-2008, 11:06 PM
Another team helps the Yankees....what a putrid organization the Pirates have become...they might as well be the Kansas City A's of the middle to late 50's...a farm team for people like the Yankees. Of all the teams i did not want this to happen for...Yankees are the ones. Don't just give them players!

HokieRed
07-25-2008, 11:23 PM
I wonder if we could have gotten these guys. I'd have been very happy to have both Nady and Marte.

Highlifeman21
07-26-2008, 10:01 AM
All I know is my soon-to-be brother-in-law (HUGE Yankees fan) called me @ 8:40 last night all kinda excited about this deal. He was talkin' crazy stuff like this move make the Yankees able to go after the division, rather than the Wild Card.

I like Xavier Nady and all, but I still think the Yankees' only post season hopes are via the WC.

Raisor
07-26-2008, 10:15 AM
All I know is my soon-to-be brother-in-law (HUGE Yankees fan) .

Sounds like your sister could do better.

:thumbup:

Screwball
07-26-2008, 10:54 AM
He was talkin' crazy stuff like this move make the Yankees able to go after the division, rather than the Wild Card.


Well, the Yanks are only 3 GB of the Rays for 1st in the AL East. With 2 months to go, a division title for them is a very realistic possibility.

Highlifeman21
07-26-2008, 11:12 AM
Sounds like your sister could do better.

:thumbup:

Actually, it's my fiancee's brother.

So, I guess I could do better?

I'm just happy we took 2 outta 3 from them earlier this year at their place, and when they were with me @ Thompson/Giese Battle of the Titans game, we won.

So I got that goin' for me...

blumj
07-26-2008, 11:16 AM
All I know is my soon-to-be brother-in-law (HUGE Yankees fan) called me @ 8:40 last night all kinda excited about this deal. He was talkin' crazy stuff like this move make the Yankees able to go after the division, rather than the Wild Card.

I like Xavier Nady and all, but I still think the Yankees' only post season hopes are via the WC.
The Yankees are already right there in the division race, with or without Nady and Marte. This was a good deal for them, because, unless Tabata becomes a star, they're never going to feel it. But, they were going to add another bat regardless, with both Matsui and Posada hurt, and, while Nady is a good fit, he seems like less of a difference-maker than some guys they could have gotten. And their bullpen has been terrific already, adding Marte isn't going to hurt unless he falls apart, but it's not like LHHs had been killing them.

cincinnati chili
07-26-2008, 11:27 AM
I'd guess that the pirates believe that Nady is having a fluky half season.

The guy was 29 years old entering the season with a below-average career on base percentage (.327) and a below average slugging percentage for a corner outfielder (.441) in almost 1700 career at-bats.

Those are the numbers of waiver-wire material, or at-best a fourth outfielder.

If they're right, then he's no big loss for the Pirates. If Nady turns out to be the rare animal who has put it all together, despite 1700 major league at bats and despite getting every possible opportunity and bit of coaching attention that you'd expect from a high draft pick and bonus baby, then the Yankees made a good trade. If not, then they've effectively turned over 4 players - 2 of which are likely to be GOOD major league players, and one which could be outstanding (19 year old at Double A, having a bad year but lots of promise) for a 33-year-old good middle reliever.

I expect Marte's walk rate to increase about 50% in the AL East, and I'd say the over/under on his ERA will be about 3.60.

This trade could go either way.

NJReds
07-26-2008, 11:38 AM
The Yankees are already right there in the division race, with or without Nady and Marte. This was a good deal for them, because, unless Tabata becomes a star, they're never going to feel it.

Even if Tabata becomes a star, this is the kind of move that winning teams make. The Yankees, Mets, Red Sox and teams that routinely spend $120M+ on payroll will always be able to put stars on their teams. If Tabata becomes a star with the Pirates, the Yankees will probably sign him as a free agent when the Pirates can no longer afford him.

blumj
07-26-2008, 12:18 PM
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2008/07/mccutchen_karst.html

The NY Post is reporting that the Yankees traded Daniel McCutchen and Jeff Karstens, along with Tabata and Ohlendorf, not Coke and Kontos.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-26-2008, 12:58 PM
If Tabata becomes a star with the Pirates, the Yankees will probably sign him as a free agent when the Pirates can no longer afford him.

And thus the cruel cycle of modern Major League Baseball continues :thumbdown

Degenerate39
07-26-2008, 01:08 PM
Maybe the Reds can actually win a game against the Pirates now.

Unassisted
07-26-2008, 01:09 PM
I went to the Pirates game last night and there was no announcement of this move. It surprised me when I saw it on the news.

*BaseClogger*
07-26-2008, 01:27 PM
I trust Neal Huntington for some reason. He seems like he knows what he is doing, and I think he knew Nady was having a career season and that Marte was leaving after this year for FA...

RedsManRick
07-26-2008, 02:03 PM
Imagine that. Trading a guy during his career year when you're a losing team instead of holding on to him out of fear that it will upset your fanbase. Huh. It's almost like the Pirates are more worried about collecting talent and upside for the sake of making the playoffsin the future rather than on winning a few more meaningless games this season. Where are their priorities?

cincinnati chili
07-26-2008, 02:51 PM
I trust Neal Huntington for some reason.

And Frank Coonelly, Pirates' president. After presiding over every single arbitration case in major league baseball for the past 10 years or so, I think he's able to spot the type of player who's perceived value in arbitration will exceed his actual value to a club (Nady).

That doesn't mean you dump him in trade. But it means you certainly shop him.

This trade will very much come down to the factors of luck and also how well the Pirates scouted the minor league players. I hear Tabata is a problem child, but so were Hanley Ramirez and Miguel Cabrera.

Big Klu
07-26-2008, 02:57 PM
Imagine that. Trading a guy during his career year when you're a losing team instead of holding on to him out of fear that it will upset your fanbase. Huh. It's almost like the Pirates are more worried about collecting talent and upside for the sake of making the playoffsin the future rather than on winning a few more meaningless games this season. Where are their priorities?

I don't mean for this to sound antagonistic, but which Red having a career year do you suggest Walt trade?

Jerry Hairston, Jr.? OK, except he's injured (at a rather inopportune time).
Adam Dunn? I'm sure Walt is trying, but the fish aren't biting.
Edinson Volquez?
Edwin Encarnacion?
Brandon Phillips?

HokieRed
07-26-2008, 03:23 PM
Pirates' official site has it that at first it was Coke and Kontos but then later was switched to Karstens and McCutchen.

jojo
07-26-2008, 05:37 PM
Looks like the Yanks just traded for Jarrod Washburn too... It's sent to the league office apparently but the specifics haven't been leaked.... rumors seem to suggest Washburn/catcher/Vidro to the Yanks for Melky Cabrera and possibly Igawa (so there is salary jockeying as part of the trade).

Spitball
07-26-2008, 07:29 PM
Imagine that. Trading a guy during his career year when you're a losing team instead of holding on to him out of fear that it will upset your fanbase. Huh. It's almost like the Pirates are more worried about collecting talent and upside for the sake of making the playoffsin the future rather than on winning a few more meaningless games this season. Where are their priorities?

The Pirates' take in that trade was such a way over the top poor return for two trading chips, the Nady-Marte trade might just be the symbolic evidence of what an incredible buyers' market we are seeing out there. If the Reds can not get better return for their players than the Yankees sent to the Pirates, I'd rather stay with the prospects the Reds already have now.


.... rumors seem to suggest Washburn/catcher/Vidro to the Yanks for Melky Cabrera and possibly Igawa

I don't know, Cabrera was not removed from the Yankee-Red Sox game that just ended with Cabrera catching the last out.

jojo
07-26-2008, 07:54 PM
I don't know, Cabrera was not removed from the Yankee-Red Sox game that just ended with Cabrera catching the last out.

Just getting NY to take his contract is a good thing for the Ms.

RedsManRick
07-26-2008, 07:56 PM
The Pirates' take in that trade was such a way over the top poor return for two trading chips, the Nady-Marte trade might just be the symbolic evidence of what an incredible buyers' market we are seeing out there. If the Reds can not get better return for their players than the Yankees sent to the Pirates, I'd rather stay with the prospects the Reds already have now.

Better to get 50 cents on the dollar than 0.

Spitball
07-26-2008, 08:30 PM
Just getting NY to take his contract is a good thing for the Ms.

I'd be surprised if the Yankees would include Cabrera and take Washburn's contract.


Better to get 50 cents on the dollar than 0.

Except it looks like the market is paying 10 cents on the dollar. A major league starting outfielder hitting almost a hundred points higher than the best prospect is hitting in the minors and a tough lefthanded reliever should bring much more.

blumj
07-26-2008, 09:35 PM
Just getting NY to take his contract is a good thing for the Ms.
Just be prepared, because Cashman sometimes manages to turn salary dumps into surprises.

jojo
07-26-2008, 09:51 PM
Just be prepared, because Cashman sometimes manages to turn salary dumps into surprises.

I'm pretty comfortable with what Washburn is... If he went 10-0 while pitching a no-hitter in game 7 of the world series for the Yanks, dumping him still would've been a good move for the Ms.

blumj
07-26-2008, 10:23 PM
I'm pretty comfortable with what Washburn is... If he went 10-0 while pitching a no-hitter in game 7 of the world series for the Yanks, dumping him still would've been a good move for the Ms.
Sure. I wasn't talking about Washburn, or Vidro, or anyone else the M's would be better off (or about the same) without.

OnBaseMachine
07-28-2008, 02:16 PM
Bay still on the radar

The Braves scored 27 runs during this past weekend's series in Philadelphia and won just once. Things certainly might have been different had they had Chipper Jones and Jason Bay in their lineup.

Jones was sidelined by a strained left hamstring and Bay was stuck in Pittsburgh because Pirates ownership was reluctant to move him.

Before the start of Friday's game, many of the Braves players were asking about Bay. Some were under the impression that they were going to walk into the clubhouse that day and find him to be their newest teammate.

But a proposed deal, which would have brought Bay to Atlanta in exchange for four Minor Leaguers, was killed when presented to the Pirates owners for approval.

Still as the week progresses, the Braves will continue to pursue Bay, who is set to earn $7.5 million during the final year of his contract next year.

The Pirates would have a definite interest in shortstop Brent Lillibridge, who they developed before trading him to the Braves in exchange for Adam LaRoche last year.

In addition, they'd likely ask for Brandon Jones, who would be considered a Major League-ready outfielder. He hit .278 (15-for-54) with seven extra-base hits, including a homer, in 16 games with Atlanta earlier this year.

To complete the deal the Braves would likely also have to include one of their talented young pitchers from the Class A level and another marginal position player.

-- Mark Bowman

http://trades.mlblogs.com/

OnBaseMachine
07-28-2008, 02:24 PM
Unless Julio Teheran or Tommy Hanson were one of the four minor leaguers involved then this would be yet another bad deal for the Pirates along with the Nady/Marte deal. Neal Huntington's trades haven't looked too good for the Pirates yet. With great trade pieces such as Damaso Marte, Xavier Nady, Jason Bay, and John Grabow the Pirates could really rack up some good prospects but have failed to so so far. If I were the Pirates I would hang on to Bay unless I got an offer that knocked me over, and from the looks of it that Braves offer wasn't much. I'd demand Jason Heyward or at least Freddie Freeman and a pitching prospect like Teheran or Colt Morton.

jojo
07-28-2008, 03:24 PM
Unless Julio Teheran or Tommy Hanson were one of the four minor leaguers involved then this would be yet another bad deal for the Pirates along with the Nady/Marte deal. Neal Huntington's trades haven't looked too good for the Pirates yet. With great trade pieces such as Damaso Marte, Xavier Nady, Jason Bay, and John Grabow the Pirates could really rack up some good prospects but have failed to so so far. If I were the Pirates I would hang on to Bay unless I got an offer that knocked me over, and from the looks of it that Braves offer wasn't much. I'd demand Jason Heyward or at least Freddie Freeman and a pitching prospect like Teheran or Colt Morton.

The thing about the Yankee trade though, Marte is basically a rental and Nady is about as average as you can get true-skill-wise his career first half notwithstanding.

I doubt the Pirates could've had a haul with those two guys. The Pirates basically flipped them for a high upside/high risk gamble and some fodder. If it pays off, they'll be considered geniuses and if it doesn't, well, their outlook for this year and next really hasn't taken a big hit.

OnBaseMachine
07-28-2008, 05:41 PM
BTW I was reading a report a little while ago that said the Tigers offered Jair Jurrjens to the Pirates last year for Jack Wilson and the Pirates turned it down. Now Jurrjens is with the Braves and is one of the front runners for the NL rookie of the year. Turning that deal down was just another in a long line of bad moves by former Pirate GM Dave Littlefield.

Raisor
07-28-2008, 05:46 PM
BTW I was reading a report a little while ago that said the Tigers offered Jair Jurrjens to the Pirates last year for Jack Wilson and the Pirates turned it down. Now Jurrjens is with the Braves and is one of the front runners for the NL rookie of the year. Turning that deal down was just another in a long line of bad moves by former Pirate GM Dave Littlefield.

The Pirates should rehire Littlefield just to fire him again if that's true.

OnBaseMachine
07-28-2008, 05:55 PM
Around this time last year, the Tigers were prepared to include Jair Jurrjens in a trade offer for Pittsburgh Pirates shortstop Jack Wilson.

Jurrjens was pitching well at Double-A Erie then, but the Pirates had reservations about dealing an everyday shortstop for someone who might not contribute in the majors right away. So the talks fell apart.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080706/SPORTS02/807060561

Unassisted
07-30-2008, 12:24 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3510031&type=story


Nice job, Pirates ... you just helped the Yankees
By Jeff Pearlman
Special to Page 2

He was supposed to be a new kind of thinker.

Smarter.

Deeper.

More focused on development, with the skills and insight to match.

At least that's what I was told repeatedly five months ago, when members of the Pittsburgh Pirates organization were downright giddy over the hiring of the team's new general manager, a 38-year-old from the Cleveland Indians organization named Neal Huntington. After the bleakness and doom that signified the Cam Bonifay and Dave Littlefield eras, when one bad transaction followed another followed another followed another, Huntington was a wonderful breath of fresh air. With his boyish good looks and perfectly placed hair, he would revitalize scouting; place more money and emphasis on character and minor league development; make decisions based on the long-term benefit of the franchise. This is, after all, an organization that has used its first-round draft choices in recent years to select, among others, J.J. Davis, Clint Johnston, Bobby Bradley, John Van Benschoten, Sean Burnett, Bryan Bullington, Paul Maholm and Brad Lincoln. This is an organization that hasn't drafted a legitimate star since Barry Bonds, egad, 23 years ago. "We want to construct something special here," Huntington told me. "Something meaningful that can last."

Xavier Nady
Did the Pirates sell low in trading Xavier Nady to the Yankees?

Well, uh, yeah, uh, hmmm …

It has been three days since the Pirates traded Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte to the New York Yankees, and I have yet to stop scratching my head (admittedly, it's probably lice).

Please, someone, tell me what I'm missing here:

• Step 1: In the midst of yet another gloomy season, Pittsburgh is itching to unload its veterans in exchange for young, top-level talent.

• Step 2: The two most covered Pirates players, outfielder/first baseman Nady and left-handed reliever Marte, are irresistible additions for myriad contending teams. Neither man has an outlandishly unmanageable contract (Nady is making $3.35 million this year and isn't a free agent until after the 2009 season, Marte is making $2.15 million). Both are enjoying the best seasons of their careers. Both are good character guys in their primes. Both would be thrilled to leave Pittsburgh to join a pennant race.

• Step 3: After six years of Littlefield's incompetence (he will never live down rejecting the Phillies' offer of Ryan Howard for Kip Wells in 2005), Pittsburgh desperately needs to replenish its farm system. Having lived through the flameouts of the Neil Walkers and J.R. Houses and Chad Hermansens, the Pirates crave young, high-ceiling studs.

• Step 4: The Yankees, Red Sox, Angels and Dodgers all have young, high-ceiling studs in their minor league systems.

• Step 5: The Pirates relinquish Nady and Marte to the Yankees in exchange for two Cosi Signature Salads, a book of matches, Brian Cashman's eyeglasses and the rights to negotiate with Kevin Maas and Hensley Meulens.

• Step 6: The Evil Empire reaches the postseason … again. The Laughingstocks at Three Rivers lose 90-plus games … again.

In Huntington's defense, the jury is still out on the four players obtained from New York: pitchers Ross Ohlendorf, Jeff Karstens and Daniel McCutchen and outfielder Jose Tabata. But here's the immediate issue: When you're the Pittsburgh Pirates, and your farm system is as barren as Phil Gramm's public speaking calendar, you don't simply require good, solid prospects who could -- just maybe -- turn into something. You need Grade-A beef: an Ian Kennedy (Yankees), a Michael Almanzar (Red Sox), an Ivan DeJesus Jr. (Dodgers). You need at least one guy to make up for past misdeeds; one guy who shoots you up the Baseball America rankings.

Instead, what the Yankees surrendered were four young men who had iffy futures in New York. Ohlendorf, already 25 years old, was 1-1 with a 6.53 ERA in the majors this season; Karstens, 25 and an immediate addition to the Pittsburgh rotation, was 6-4 with a 3.80 ERA at Triple-A. McCutchen, also 25, serves up a mediocre 92 mph fastball and, two years ago, was suspended 50 games for steroids. And Tabata, compared by Pirates first baseman Doug Mientkiewicz to a young Manny Ramirez, offers as much risk as reward. Yes, he's 19 years old with oodles of talent. But he's been terrible at Double-A (.248, three home runs in 79 games), turning off Yankees brass with his attitude as much as his inability. Put simply, Tabata is as likely to be the next Mark Quinn as he is the next Manny.

Judging the Pirates' luck, he'll be Quinn.

Over the past decade, we have seen our share of dreadful trades -- the Mets shipping Scott Kazmir to Tampa Bay for Victor Zambrano and Bartolomé Fortunato; the Giants sending Joe Nathan, Francisco Liriano and Boof Bonser to the Twins for A.J. Pierzynski; the Cardinals trading Danny Haren, Kiko Calero, and Daric Barton to Oakland for Mark Mulder.

Yet franchises like New York, San Francisco and St. Louis can afford to make mistakes. They can blow a trade, admit the error, then dip into the free agency pool and afford some Band-Aids. Pittsburgh, on the other hand, cannot.

The Pirates needed to turn Nady and Marte into an evening at Per Se, with the cappuccino of forest mushrooms, oysters and pearls, chaud-froid and boeuf grillee.

Instead, they got a lunch at a fast-food joint -- lots of calories, no cows.

Tony Cloninger
07-30-2008, 03:38 PM
Agree completely with this guy and said so as soon as I saw this thread.

Yeah...patting myself in the back until those 4 players turn out to be great..I guess. :D

NJReds
07-30-2008, 04:00 PM
After six years of Littlefield's incompetence (he will never live down rejecting the Phillies' offer of Ryan Howard for Kip Wells in 2005). :eek:

Really ... I never heard that.

OnBaseMachine
07-30-2008, 04:37 PM
:eek:

Really ... I never heard that.

Yep. Dave Littlefield was a real "gem."

He turned down Jair Jurrjens for Jack Wilson.

He turned down Ryan Howard for Kip Wells.

He traded Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Loften for Jose Hernandez and a couple other scrub prospects.

He traded Jason Schmidt and John Vander Wal for Ryan Vogelsong and Armando Rios.

He traded Chris Young for nothing.

He drafted Bryan Bullington No.1 overall over BJ Upton and even admitted that Bullington projected as a #3 starter at best.

Last year he drafted a college reliever with the #4 overall pick over much better talent.

Dude was a train wreck. He's gotta be the worst GM in my lifetime.

Chip R
07-30-2008, 04:39 PM
Yep. Dave Littlefield was a real "gem."

He turned down Jair Jurrjens for Jack Wilson.

He turned down Ryan Howard for Kip Wells.

He traded Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Loften for Jose Hernandez and a couple other scrub prospects.

He traded Jason Schmidt and John Vander Wal for Ryan Vogelsong and Armando Rios.

He traded Chris Young for nothing.

He drafted Bryan Bullington No.1 overall over BJ Upton and even admitted that Bullington projected as a #3 starter at best.

Last year he drafted a college reliever with the #4 overall pick over much better talent.

Dude was a train wreck. He's gotta be the worst GM in my lifetime.


:obrien:

OnBaseMachine
07-30-2008, 04:42 PM
:obrien:

O'Brien was awful but I still give Littlefield the slight advantage. At least O'Brien drafted Jay Bruce, and signed Johnny Cueto.

Chip R
07-30-2008, 04:47 PM
O'Brien was awful but I still give Littlefield the slight advantage. At least O'Brien drafted Jay Bruce, and signed Johnny Cueto.


Yeah. I just wanted an excuse to put that on there. :D