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757690
07-26-2008, 06:08 PM
MLBtraderumors has this report.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/might-sox-try-t.html


Not sure how to make it work, but if I were the Reds FO, I would rather have Manny for two years at $20M a season, that Dunn at $15+ for 3-5 years.

Dunn, Affeldt and Weathers for Manny? The Red Sox seemed to be willing to just let him go after the season, so I doubt they would want much back for him.

Blue
07-26-2008, 06:14 PM
They're pretty much the same with their .930 OPS, but done plays better defense and is 7 1/2 years younger.

757690
07-26-2008, 06:31 PM
They're pretty much the same with their .930 OPS, but done plays better defense and is 7 1/2 years younger.

First, Manny is a better Left fielder than Dunn. Hands down. He is usually in the top 5 every year in assists, and he is dealing with one of the toughest leftfields in the history of baseball. Funny, I would think that if you thought that Dunn was under-rated as a left fielder, then you you think the same as Manny. Both look slower than they really are.

Second, I will give you the younger part, but Manny's career OPS is nearly 100 points higher than Dunn's. But even if they are the same, Manny's is BA driven and Dunn's is walk driven. Even the biggest stat guru's understand that the same OPS with a higher BA produces more runs.

But stats aside, Dunn will never be the hitter that Manny is. Manny is one of the greatest pure hitters of all time. Even Dunn will tell you that he is not in Manny's league.

Again, I think you point about age is a good one, and one to think hard about. But I still want Manny, even at age 36-38.

CarolinaRedleg
07-26-2008, 11:32 PM
If he can't stay motivated enough to play every day in Boston, where he's got a legit chance for a ring, imagine him in this situation.........

realreds1
07-26-2008, 11:45 PM
If he can't stay motivated enough to play every day in Boston, where he's got a legit chance for a ring, imagine him in this situation.........

Unfortunately true. He'd be riding Gapper's four-wheeler around the outfield during the game.

Blue
07-26-2008, 11:50 PM
Unfortunately true. He'd be riding Gapper's four-wheeler around the outfield during the game.

You can bet your bottom dollar Marty would never utter the words "Man, Manny being Manny, man.".

TeamSelig
07-27-2008, 12:15 AM
horrible idea

Mutaman
07-27-2008, 12:17 AM
They're pretty much the same with their .930 OPS, but done plays better defense and is 7 1/2 years younger.


If you think "done" with seven sub .500 seasons in 7 years in the bigs is "pretty much the same" as Ramirez with his 2 rings, well, what can I say. That's the sound of thousands of Yankee fans laughing hysterically.

HeatherC1212
07-27-2008, 12:42 AM
If he can't stay motivated enough to play every day in Boston, where he's got a legit chance for a ring, imagine him in this situation.........

I'm with you there. He all ready has TWO rings with a chance for a third and he's still pulling crap with Boston. Let some other team deal with him. I don't particularly want to see him in Cincy.

NorrisHopper30
07-27-2008, 12:44 AM
No No No No No No No

I wonder if Jason Bay could be had, though.

Blue
07-27-2008, 03:53 AM
If you think "done" with seven sub .500 seasons in 7 years in the bigs is "pretty much the same" as Ramirez with his 2 rings, well, what can I say. That's the sound of thousands of Yankee fans laughing hysterically.

Speaking of laughing hysterically, this has me rolling.

Here are a few players you may have heard of who never played in a World Series, let along win one:

Rafael Palmeiro
Andre Dawson
Ernie Banks
Billy Williams
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Sammy Sosa

Here's the name of a guy who did win one:

Tony Womack

That's a Jeff Brantley-worthy crap of an argument, this notion that teams win the World Series because they're made up of "winners". Actually, Jeff, they're winners because they won the World Series, and many of the players who win the World Series, like Womack, are in fact, losers. Apparently Barry Bonds was inferior to Manny Ramirez in 2004 when Bonds had a 1.421 OPS, because as we know, Manny won a ring that year, along with 24 other Red Sox players, such as Kevin Millar, Mark Bellhorn, Pokey Reese, Orlando Cabrerra, Gabe Kapler, Bill Mueller, and Trot Nixon.

So yes, they are basically the same guy at this point although as someone indicated above, Manny's AVG makes him slightly more valuable as a hitter, and I like Dunn's chances of repeating his current performance when he is age 29-30 better than Manny repeating his current performance when he is 36-37.

Please think before posting your next argument. If you do, and its anything like the one quoted above, there is no hope for you.

I'm "Dunn".

Ahhhorsepoo
07-28-2008, 12:35 PM
sorry but this is hilarious that people actually think dunn is a better player than manny... HAHAHAHAHA..

they might be somewhat close in some catagories.. but everything else wise.. and total career wise.. NOT EVEN CLOSE..

ChatterRed
07-28-2008, 12:41 PM
I think the only issue here is age.

I do think a 36 year old Manny is better than a 29 year old Dunn.

What concerns me is Manny has approached his declining years.

Nasty_Boy
07-28-2008, 12:56 PM
Manny is and has been the better hitter, but do not say that he is better defensively! He is a terrible terrible outfielder that continually gets worse. This junk about assists is a joke... He plays 81 games about 230 feet from home plate. And that wall makes it easier on a defender because you play shallow and all you have to is catch the ball after it falls off the wall. The Manny as a hitter argument isn't even close, but he's such a side show and he's so freaking aloof. Dunn shows up and plays everyday, whether he's healthy or not... Manny not so much. There is something to be said about a player that plays everyday.

ChatterRed
07-28-2008, 01:10 PM
There is something to be said about a player that plays everyday.

Yeah, it gives Dunn the opportunity to strike out more. :D

chettt
07-28-2008, 01:20 PM
Who would you rather have playing left field for the rest of this year? Manny or Dunner? I believe that is the real question! Neither will be here after this season. I just hope something or someone puts some excitement in this team.

Ahhhorsepoo
07-28-2008, 01:36 PM
manny.. while he might be getting up there in age.. he is still better than dunn, and he will be leaving baseball in less years than Dunn so younger players can go back to their better positions (votto to LF, when alonso comes up)..

757690
07-28-2008, 02:24 PM
Manny is and has been the better hitter, but do not say that he is better defensively! He is a terrible terrible outfielder that continually gets worse. This junk about assists is a joke... He plays 81 games about 230 feet from home plate. And that wall makes it easier on a defender because you play shallow and all you have to is catch the ball after it falls off the wall. The Manny as a hitter argument isn't even close, but he's such a side show and he's so freaking aloof. Dunn shows up and plays everyday, whether he's healthy or not... Manny not so much. There is something to be said about a player that plays everyday.

If that is true, then why do so all the other outfielders look so clueless when playing it? Just look at Nady last night. Manny defensively is a lot like Dunn, they both look worse than they really are, due to their approach, only Manny has a better arm.
Regardless of why he gets so many assists, he gets them, and if he was as bad as you are saying, then he wouldn't get them. It takes a good, smart defender to play the Green Monster. It is considered the hardest left field in the majors to play defensively, and he plays it better than anyone else. Of course he has more experience there, but if he was terrible, it wouldn't matter how long he has played there. The fact that he has mastered it, shows that is not terrible.

I do agree that Dunn has a better attitude, hands down.

Nasty_Boy
07-28-2008, 02:53 PM
Manny is used to playing the wall. He plays a much better outfield with a 35 foot wall behind him that he does with green grass and an 8 foot wall.

As far as Dunn's defense, I don't know how anyone that watches the Reds can't see that he is healthy and playing a darn good LF. We could argue until we are blue in face about who's better defensively, but my point is that right now at ages 36 and 28 I would want Adam Dunn more than Manny being Manny.

Ahhhorsepoo
07-28-2008, 03:32 PM
Adam Dunn has a 15 foot wall behind him and he still hasn't figured out how to play a ball off it.. imagine him with 20 more feet up.. OHH MY..

TeamSelig
07-29-2008, 01:40 PM
horrible idea

lol I got a warning for this message.

I guess I'll apologize for being 'snotty'

AFalcon10
07-29-2008, 02:18 PM
Yeah I agree that Mannys glove in left is far superior to Dunn's , but part of that is he doesnt have that much area to cover with the green monster. Mannys a better all around hitter, not quite the power of Dunn but sprays the ball much better. Nevertheless, Manny is nearing the end of his career in the next 5 years and Dunn is entering his prime so there is no argument as to who we would rather have, in my opinion.

757690
07-29-2008, 03:09 PM
lol I got a warning for this message.

I guess I'll apologize for being 'snotty'

Just so you know, even though your comment was directed at me and my idea, I was not offended by it, and I did not say anything about it. If we can't say "horrible idea" on this board, then what can we say?

No need to apologize to me.

TeamSelig
07-29-2008, 03:49 PM
Yeah, I thought it was a little bizarre too. I just thought it wouldn't be a good idea to trade for Manny. Maybe they wanted me to explain myself instead of giving my short opinion of it. I dunno, I've seen worse. I thought it was kinda humorous.

CWRed
07-29-2008, 04:34 PM
MLBtraderumors has this report.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/might-sox-try-t.html


Not sure how to make it work, but if I were the Reds FO, I would rather have Manny for two years at $20M a season, that Dunn at $15+ for 3-5 years.

Dunn, Affeldt and Weathers for Manny? The Red Sox seemed to be willing to just let him go after the season, so I doubt they would want much back for him.

dreadful idea. simply bloody dreadful.