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Reds1
07-26-2008, 09:41 PM
After the HR in the 4th was very upset at someone in the crowd and the camera came on him and he sounded like he dropped an F bomb. Not seem him that upset and after a HR. Just curious if anyone saw that and saw the same thing I did.

mth123
07-26-2008, 09:53 PM
After the HR in the 4th was very upset at someone in the crowd and the camera came on him and he sounded like he dropped an F bomb. Not seem him that upset and after a HR. Just curious if anyone saw that and saw the same thing I did.

I noticed it.

cincinnati chili
07-26-2008, 09:54 PM
I saw the throat-slashing motion Griffey made toward a fan after he hit the homer.

Matt700wlw
07-26-2008, 09:54 PM
I saw the throat-slashing motion Griffey made toward a fan after he hit the homer.

That's 15 yards in football...

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-26-2008, 10:27 PM
The atmosphere around this club is just so positive right now. Oh how I hope Walt does nothing so we can keep watching this fun

KronoRed
07-26-2008, 10:31 PM
I'm betting the receiver of said insult had said much worse.

TOBTTReds
07-26-2008, 10:33 PM
....to the cowboy

Edskin
07-26-2008, 10:56 PM
I think it's probably Junior's fatal flaw.

I don't think there is any doubt that KGJ is a good guy, and a someone that is very well liked by teammates and others that know him well. His behind the scenes acts of generosity have been well documented.

However, he has always been extremely sensitive. And I think that sensitivity has made him a bit wary of the media and fans....and in turn, it's been hard for many people to "get to know" KGJ.

Obviously, I have no clue what the fan said, but chances are it wasn't anything that lots of athletes don't hear, regardless of how rude (or even vulgar) it may have been.

With Junior, I've always felt that he could have an entire stadium standing and giving him an ovation, but if there was one guy in the front row ripping him, he would only be able to focus on that one guy.

durl
07-26-2008, 11:15 PM
However, he has always been extremely sensitive. And I think that sensitivity has made him a bit wary of the media and fans....and in turn, it's been hard for many people to "get to know" KGJ.

I've always thought that Griffey probably hears worse than the typical player. Big-time players are an easier target for fans that like to run their mouths. In Cincy, fans believe they know his innermost thoughts and that he's a cancer to the team. He received at least one confirmed death threat in Seattle before he left. If that's what people do in towns that he plays for, I can't imagine what he hears from opponent's fans.

MasonBuzz3
07-26-2008, 11:42 PM
....to the cowboy

i'm thinking we have a winner

WVRedsFan
07-26-2008, 11:54 PM
Doc Rogers just said that there are no radios in the dugout, so I would guess that the fan probably was on his case all night and he just lost it. I've seen Junior heckled many times and he usually laughs and gives it right back. This had to be bad.

Of course John Q Fann on the talk shows will condemn him and try to run him out of town on a rail. It will be Junior's fault, no doubt. Just like it's Dusty's fault that has no righthanded alternative to Votto at first, no shortstop, and a rookie CF'er who is struggling. It is his fault that he bats that CF'er leadoff and his non-major league SS second, but that's another thread.

johngalt
07-26-2008, 11:58 PM
Doc Rogers just said that there are no radios in the dugout, so I would guess that the fan probably was on his case all night and he just lost it. I've seen Junior heckled many times and he usually laughs and gives it right back. This had to be bad.

Of course John Q Fann on the talk shows will condemn him and try to run him out of town on a rail. It will be Junior's fault, no doubt. Just like it's Dusty's fault that has no righthanded alternative to Votto at first, no shortstop, and a rookie CF'er who is struggling. It is his fault that he bats that CF'er leadoff and his non-major league SS second, but that's another thread.

But there are radios in the clubhouse and both clubhouses always have the 700 feed going during games. Wouldn't surprise me if someone told Junior about the comment. Doesn't mean that's what he was responding to, but it's a definite possibility.

Reds1
07-27-2008, 12:07 AM
Funny thing. I'm sure he got dogged for not going after that ball then he comes up big and throws a guy out all the way in. Seems a little motivation goes a long way with KGJ these days. I hope so. This team needs a fire ........................ fill in yourself.

redsfan30
07-27-2008, 12:09 AM
What comment did Brantley make that would set Junior off like that?

Unassisted
07-27-2008, 12:10 AM
Give him the Danny Graves cure for f-bombs addressed at fans? The precedent is there.

cincinnati chili
07-27-2008, 02:05 AM
I think it's probably Junior's fatal flaw.

I don't think there is any doubt that KGJ is a good guy, and a someone that is very well liked by teammates and others that know him well. His behind the scenes acts of generosity have been well documented.

However, he has always been extremely sensitive. And I think that sensitivity has made him a bit wary of the media and fans....and in turn, it's been hard for many people to "get to know" KGJ.

I've heard secondhand accounts that the same is true of senior, perhaps more so. I assumed this was a fan that he directed this toward. I'd be very surprised if he made a public gesture like that toward Brantley.

Matt700wlw
07-27-2008, 02:38 AM
What comment did Brantley make that would set Junior off like that?

Nothing that wasn't deserved...

Jpup
07-27-2008, 04:27 AM
I was embarrassed to be a Reds fan when Jr. said FU to whoever it was. It was very unprofessional. When Danny Graves did much the same thing, he was ran out of town. It's time for Jr. to go. There are kids at the game and watching on TV. They look up to Jr. He should know better. I wonder if he talks like that around his children?

remdog
07-27-2008, 05:54 AM
Jr. is a classy guy and is usually very cool, even despite the uncalled for insults that he gets from the clueless hoards that light up their dreary and empty lives by braying stupid comments at him.

So, whatever was said to get that kind of reaction from him must have been particularly vulgar---I'm guessing something to do with his family.

For all of the crap Jr. has taken since he came 'home' I'm not going to vilify him. I'm more unhappy about the way the supposed 'fans' have treated him than anything that he said today.

Rem

mth123
07-27-2008, 07:30 AM
I was embarrassed to be a Reds fan when Jr. said FU to whoever it was. It was very unprofessional. When Danny Graves did much the same thing, he was ran out of town. It's time for Jr. to go. There are kids at the game and watching on TV. They look up to Jr. He should know better. I wonder if he talks like that around his children?

I've been a critic of Junior. Not so much because I dislike him but simply because its past time for this team to turn the page from its declining star. Griffey really hurt the team this year. His offense was below par in the first 2 and a half months while the team was digging a hole for itself and his defense is worse than terrible and has greatly contributed to the worn down pitching staff we're witnessing now. He has played better both offensively and defensively since the stint on the road against the AL clubs. I'm guessing that not having to play the field rejuvinated his legs a bit which has helped his pop at the plate and his mobility on defense. To me it just points out that he can't physically handle the rigors of the daily grind as a two way player and its only a matter of time until his legs are worn down again (though the All Star break probably helped him stay fresh for a while longer). Now we see the gesture and I wonder why he wants to stay. He could probably play a few more years as a DH. Why not remove the source of that pent-up resentment that we saw bubble over last night by agreeing to move on? He's not doing himself any favors by staying around IMO.

GAC
07-27-2008, 08:08 AM
I saw it. Don't know what that fan said; but when I saw it the first thing that came to mind was "what was this fan (or fans) saying that set Jr off?" Because in the 8 yrs I've watched Jr I've never seen him react such a way during a game in the dugout.

Sure - some can say that Jr is a professional and should have shrugged it off. Real easy for a fan to say; but you're not the one being heckled and taking the abuse. And more importantly... we don't know what this fan was saying.

What if it was something racial, or maybe about his family? We don't know do we? But I'm assuming it had to be pretty bad to cause Jr to react the way he did because it's not characteristic of him.

And it's not the same as what Graves did, because Graves made a highly visible gesture that was seen by everyone in the park.

You want Jr off the team, then fine. But find some other line of reasoning other then him making a comment from the dugout at an abusive fan. :rolleyes:

kaldaniels
07-27-2008, 08:10 AM
I saw it. Don't know what that fan said; but when I saw it the first thing that came to mind was "what was this fan (or fans) saying that set Jr off?" Because in the 8 yrs I've watched Jr I've never seen him react such a way during a game in the dugout.

Sure - some can say that Jr is a professional and should have shrugged it off. Real easy for a fan to say; but you're not the one being heckled and taking the abuse. And more importantly... we don't know what this fan was saying.

What if it was something racial, or maybe about his family? We don't know do we? But I'm assuming it had to be pretty bad to cause Jr to react the way he did because it's not characteristic of him.

And it's not the same as what Graves did, because Graves made a highly visible gesture that was seen by everyone in the park.

You want Jr off the team, then fine. But find some other line of reasoning other then him making a comment from the dugout at an abusive fan. :rolleyes:

I don't think Jr. should get any punishment at all for the record. But for arguments sake, what he did unfortunately was more visible than Graves thanks to the tv camera.

klw
07-27-2008, 08:20 AM
I think it's probably Junior's fatal flaw.

I don't think there is any doubt that KGJ is a good guy, and a someone that is very well liked by teammates and others that know him well. His behind the scenes acts of generosity have been well documented.

However, he has always been extremely sensitive. And I think that sensitivity has made him a bit wary of the media and fans....and in turn, it's been hard for many people to "get to know" KGJ.

Obviously, I have no clue what the fan said, but chances are it wasn't anything that lots of athletes don't hear, regardless of how rude (or even vulgar) it may have been.

With Junior, I've always felt that he could have an entire stadium standing and giving him an ovation, but if there was one guy in the front row ripping him, he would only be able to focus on that one guy.


Its odd that you feel you knew this, despite it being so hard to get to know him. If he was so sensitive we would be bombarded by promotion by his team about stories about him helping fans or taking kids to the hall of fame games. those stories never seem prommoted by him, if he was so sensitive to criticism he would have put those stories out himself or hired Willliam Morris to promote himself. Or even better he would have given the Danny Graves salute to the stadium as he was booed after getting hurt a couple of years ago. Most players would have sought a trade after putting up with a third of the nonsense he has put up with since the Trade. I am fine with him with his cussing out whoever he did. As that you tube video of the Dragons fight proves, this was not the first time a swear has been uttered near the stands. Go Jr.

GAC
07-27-2008, 08:41 AM
I've been a critic of Junior. Not so much because I dislike him but simply because its past time for this team to turn the page from its declining star. Griffey really hurt the team this year. His offense was below par in the first 2 and a half months while the team was digging a hole for itself and his defense is worse than terrible and has greatly contributed to the worn down pitching staff we're witnessing now. He has played better both offensively and defensively since the stint on the road against the AL clubs. I'm guessing that not having to play the field rejuvinated his legs a bit which has helped his pop at the plate and his mobility on defense. To me it just points out that he can't physically handle the rigors of the daily grind as a two way player and its only a matter of time until his legs are worn down again (though the All Star break probably helped him stay fresh for a while longer). Now we see the gesture and I wonder why he wants to stay. He could probably play a few more years as a DH. Why not remove the source of that pent-up resentment that we saw bubble over last night by agreeing to move on? He's not doing himself any favors by staying around IMO.

I normally respect most of what you say mth. And yes, it's obvious to all that his age and declining skills have contributed to his performance slide.

But COME ON! You're going to try and use this isolated incident and say it's a result of pent-up resentment, and is therefore further jusitification for this management to immediately remove him?

Is that what you are saying?

Thank you Dr Phil. ;)

So dump him tommorrow huh?

Be realistic. This FO is not going to do that to Jr. There is barely 2 months of basbeball left, and this team is going nowhere. And the problems are far, far deeper then a Ken Griffey Jr. Taking such a drastic (and unpopular) action against Jr would not vastly improve the team this year.

I could almost understand this position if Jr was holding back a younger player. But he's not. Who takes his place if we immediately dump him? Corey Patterson? There's a step up. Hairston? He's still DL'd, and is as volatile as a Freel.

Take Jr off this roster right now and guess what? This team still is very, very lacking.

And not only that but it would really cast a very pale shadow on this FO that would anger a lot of fans, as well as many in MLB.

And lets not forget that "animal" called the player's union either. They would immediately file a grievance. And you're going to have to pay him regardless.

Let Jr "fade into the sunset" as this season draws to a close. Don't try to create hard and bitter feelings between Jr and this organization just because we want him of this team and RIGHT NOW!

He's not coming back.

And he's another angle to consider.....

You treat Jr like that, and his good friend Adam Dunn may take offense at that and make Walt's decision a lot easier because Adam may say "Don't bother. Adios! If that's how you are going to treat your ballplayers"

GAC
07-27-2008, 08:45 AM
I don't think Jr. should get any punishment at all for the record. But for arguments sake, what he did unfortunately was more visible than Graves thanks to the tv camera.

Graves actions were seen by the fans in the stadium AND on national TV. Jr was "shielded" down inside the dugout, and his inaudible words were only seen for a brief moment by anyone who may have been watching on TV and happened to catch it. Not by anyone in the stands, other then the guilty culprit he was addressing.

The only way people are going to know about this situation is from someone starting a thread on it... and I'm sure this thread could easily turn into a 50 pager.... or if someone in the media (like a Fay), or some blogger, picks up on it and tries to makes something out of it.

StillFunkyB
07-27-2008, 08:52 AM
I was embarrassed to be a Reds fan when Jr. said FU to whoever it was. It was very unprofessional. When Danny Graves did much the same thing, he was ran out of town. It's time for Jr. to go. There are kids at the game and watching on TV. They look up to Jr. He should know better. I wonder if he talks like that around his children?

Man... your just as bad as the person who is heckling the guy.

One freakin wrong word and you want to run a guy out of town.

Just plain stupid.

GAC
07-27-2008, 09:07 AM
Man... your just as bad as the person who is heckling the guy.

One freakin wrong word and you want to run a guy out of town.

Just plain stupid.

Exactly. And why would anyone ask (or wonder) if he talks that way around his children? Of course he doesn't.

A majority of us adults, who are parents, don't talk that way around our children. I know I don't. But stick me outside alone where I'm working on a lawn mower or some other project, and things are going wrong, and I've been known, unfortunately, and in the emotional heat of the moment, to let a few verbs fly. Happened just yesterday.

I've also been known to slam doors too. That's a signal to wife and kids that things aren't going right with Dad and to stay clear. ;)

WVRed
07-27-2008, 09:22 AM
Give him the Danny Graves cure for f-bombs addressed at fans? The precedent is there.

I thought Danny Graves flipped somebody off. I think it was Jeff Wyler or somebody in the diamond seats.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-27-2008, 09:24 AM
Again, what did Brantley say?

mth123
07-27-2008, 10:20 AM
I normally respect most of what you say mth. And yes, it's obvious to all that his age and declining skills have contributed to his performance slide.

But COME ON! You're going to try and use this isolated incident and say it's a result of pent-up resentment, and is therefore further jusitification for this management to immediately remove him?

Is that what you are saying?

Thank you Dr Phil. ;)

So dump him tommorrow huh?

Be realistic. This FO is not going to do that to Jr. There is barely 2 months of basbeball left, and this team is going nowhere. And the problems are far, far deeper then a Ken Griffey Jr. Taking such a drastic (and unpopular) action against Jr would not vastly improve the team this year.

I could almost understand this position if Jr was holding back a younger player. But he's not. Who takes his place if we immediately dump him? Corey Patterson? There's a step up. Hairston? He's still DL'd, and is as volatile as a Freel.

Take Jr off this roster right now and guess what? This team still is very, very lacking.

And not only that but it would really cast a very pale shadow on this FO that would anger a lot of fans, as well as many in MLB.

And lets not forget that "animal" called the player's union either. They would immediately file a grievance. And you're going to have to pay him regardless.

Let Jr "fade into the sunset" as this season draws to a close. Don't try to create hard and bitter feelings between Jr and this organization just because we want him of this team and RIGHT NOW!

He's not coming back.

And he's another angle to consider.....

You treat Jr like that, and his good friend Adam Dunn may take offense at that and make Walt's decision a lot easier because Adam may say "Don't bother. Adios! If that's how you are going to treat your ballplayers"

Not saying that at all. But I keep hearing that Griffey is going nowhere because he won't approve a trade. I keep wondering why. He'd obviously benefit on the field if he'd go to the AL and if he's as unhappy here as it appeared last night, why does he want to stay around? To win a championship? That could also be more likely with a deal. Usually when a person acts like that it isn't an isolated incident but the culmination of a series of frustrations. I'm guessing that whatever that fan said last night wasn't the sole reason for Griffey's actions, but more the straw that broke the camel's back. I could be wrong, but if I'm right I can't figue why Griffey would want to stay. Its fairly obvious from a baseball standpoint that its better for all parties if he'd move on.

Unassisted
07-27-2008, 10:25 AM
I thought Danny Graves flipped somebody off. I think it was Jeff Wyler or somebody in the diamond seats.So it appears that the response from the club depends on which fan is drawing the profane reaction.

membengal
07-27-2008, 10:29 AM
Again, what did Brantley say?

+1.

What did Brantley say?

Team Clark
07-27-2008, 10:44 AM
But I keep hearing that Griffey is going nowhere because he won't approve a trade. I keep wondering why.

Ohhh he'll approve a trade.... to ONE team and they don't want him. So, it's not going to happen.

mth123
07-27-2008, 10:47 AM
Ohhh he'll approve a trade.... to ONE team and they don't want him. So, it's not going to happen.

Again. Why only one team? Is he so happy here that he can't stand it? Doesn't look like it.

BCubb2003
07-27-2008, 11:04 AM
+1.

What did Brantley say?

After a nice play by the Rockies leftfielder to end the top of the second:

"That's how you catch a ball."

In the bottom of the second, after the second time a ball dropped in front of Griffey:

"That is absolutely beyond anything I've ever seen in my life."

Noting the ball dropped within 20 feet of Griffey: "The fans are booing and they should boo louder than what they did. That's embarrassing."

After Jay Bruce's fine play:

"After watching the ball drop for the second time in front of Griffey, the right-hander Bailey deserved a little bit of luck and he got some there.'

Unassisted
07-27-2008, 11:11 AM
In the bottom of the second, after the second time a ball dropped in front of Griffey:

"That is absolutely beyond anything I've ever seen in my life."
I guess Brantley must be the only relief pitcher who never made a bad pitch or blew a save. Why isn't he in the HOF? ;) :D

RFS62
07-27-2008, 11:19 AM
I've never seen Junior dog it in the field. Trot to first on grounders, yeah. But not in the field.

He's just not fast anymore. At all. His first step is gone. He's not Junior anymore. He's an aging superstar slowed by time and years of injuries. And in spite of his years of experience in centerfield, he's playing a relatively new position and getting angles he didn't see before.

Did he misjudge the balls or was it lack of effort?

The kind of stuff Brantley spewed should be reserved for lack of effort.

jojo
07-27-2008, 11:26 AM
I've never seen Junior dog it in the field. Trot to first on grounders, yeah. But not in the field.

He's just not fast anymore. At all. His first step is gone. He's not Junior anymore. He's an aging superstar slowed by time and years of injuries. And in spite of his years of experience in centerfield, he's playing a relatively new position and getting angles he didn't see before.

Did he misjudge the balls or was it lack of effort?

The kind of stuff Brantley spewed should be reserved for lack of effort.

I don't think he dogs it in the field. However, I think his shrinking range has made him very conservative on the ones he takes "all out" chances on because in the back of his mind he's got to doubt whether he can get to a great many balls (and a single is better than a misplayed triple).

I hate watching Jr these days. I long for the days of "the kid".....

Team Clark
07-27-2008, 11:28 AM
Again. Why only one team? Is he so happy here that he can't stand it? Doesn't look like it.

I think he is smart enough to know that he can not handle the stress of a large market team. (i.e Yankees, Cubs, White Sox, Dodgers) He knows his skills are diminished and the embarrassment coupled with high expectations in a large market are too much to chance. The only team he is interested in going to is Tampa Bay and they both do not need or want him. He may be able to hide in TB even if they are still in the hunt.

membengal
07-27-2008, 11:53 AM
After a nice play by the Rockies leftfielder to end the top of the second:

"That's how you catch a ball."

In the bottom of the second, after the second time a ball dropped in front of Griffey:

"That is absolutely beyond anything I've ever seen in my life."

Noting the ball dropped within 20 feet of Griffey: "The fans are booing and they should boo louder than what they did. That's embarrassing."

After Jay Bruce's fine play:

"After watching the ball drop for the second time in front of Griffey, the right-hander Bailey deserved a little bit of luck and he got some there.'

Thanks for the 411 BCubb, much appreciated.

KoryMac5
07-27-2008, 12:07 PM
I think he is smart enough to know that he can not handle the stress of a large market team. (i.e Yankees, Cubs, White Sox, Dodgers) He knows his skills are diminished and the embarrassment coupled with high expectations in a large market are too much to chance. The only team he is interested in going to is Tampa Bay and they both do not need or want him. He may be able to hide in TB even if they are still in the hunt.

I always respect your insight on this board, but I have to say you are way off base on this one. Griffey is motivated these days by one thing and that is his family. Every move he makes is designed with his wife and kids in mind. The large market clubs may be a place he doesn't want his wife and kids exposed to. I for one enjoy living in a smaller community without all the hassle the big city has to offer. Griffey has had plenty of stress in his life I am sure the stress of large market media and fans pales in comparison to some of the things he has had to deal with publicly and privately.


In response to some of the negative comments by fans and posters, when JR leaves after this year people will be critical of other players with the Reds for not doing more with the community behind the scenes. The guy has been in a no win situation since he got here. I don't expect much to change after he leaves. Fans love a scapegoat, who's next on the list.

jojo
07-27-2008, 12:22 PM
I always respect your insight on this board, but I have to say you are way off base on this one. Griffey is motivated these days by one thing and that is his family. Every move he makes is designed with his wife and kids in mind. The large market clubs may be a place he doesn't want his wife and kids exposed to. I for one enjoy living in a smaller community without all the hassle the big city has to offer. Griffey has had plenty of stress in his life I am sure the stress of large market media and fans pales in comparison to some of the things he has had to deal with publicly and privately.


In response to some of the negative comments by fans and posters, when JR leaves after this year people will be critical of other players with the Reds for not doing more with the community behind the scenes. The guy has been in a no win situation since he got here. I don't expect much to change after he leaves. Fans love a scapegoat, who's next on the list.

I think the notion that Jr has aged into a weakness of the roster can be entertained without approaching scapegoat territory.

Matt700wlw
07-27-2008, 12:48 PM
Nobody was more excited than me in February of 2000....I was talking smack to my dormmates, who happened to be Indians fans, about how the Reds had just returned themselves to glory......well, sadly it hasn't worked out....AT ALL....it's been a pretty bitter reunion....both parties need to move on without each other. Having the priveledge of watching one of the greatest players in baseball history wear Red is something I will always cherish, though....even if it wasn't his greatest years. I've also been lucky enough to be part of history, although a very small part....I captured the radio calls of HR's 500 and 600, and countless in between. Running the Reds Radio Network full time for 4 and a half years allowed tthat to happen, and I'm thankful for that....it was a great opportunity for a 23 year old kid to get

KoryMac5
07-27-2008, 12:48 PM
I think the notion that Jr has aged into a weakness of the roster can be entertained without approaching scapegoat territory.

When teams lose the blame is going to go somewhere. In the land of Cincinnati baseball that blame is often passed around to Jr or Dunn. I often listen to some of the blame being tossed out their I call them "if responses". If only we hadn't traded for JR, If only we hadn't paid Jr. so much money, If only Jr were younger, If Jr would have gotten to that ball, If Jr.wouldn't be so sensitive, we would be winning more games. Sounds like scapegoating to me. When Jr. and Dunn leave town the spotlight will catch a new face, and fans can blame someone else for the inept performance of this team. Bruce better be ready for the pent up frustration 9 seasons of losing has brought.

jojo
07-27-2008, 12:55 PM
When teams lose the blame is going to go somewhere. In the land of Cincinnati baseball that blame is often passed around to Jr or Dunn. I often listen to some of the blame being tossed out their I call them "if responses". If only we hadn't traded for JR, If only we hadn't paid Jr. so much money, If only Jr were younger, If Jr would have gotten to that ball, If Jr.wouldn't be so sensitive, we would be winning more games. Sounds like scapegoating to me. When Jr. and Dunn leave town the spotlight will catch a new face, and fans can blame someone else for the inept performance of this team. Bruce better be ready for the pent up frustration 9 seasons of losing has brought.

I wasn't arguing that Cincy fans don't feed on their own at times. I'm just suggesting that it's possible to legitimately critique a player without him being a scapegoat (i.e. Jr has been part of the problem over the last few seasons).

corkedbat
07-27-2008, 12:55 PM
I always respect your insight on this board, but I have to say you are way off base on this one. Griffey is motivated these days by one thing and that is his family. Every move he makes is designed with his wife and kids in mind. The large market clubs may be a place he doesn't want his wife and kids exposed to. I for one enjoy living in a smaller community without all the hassle the big city has to offer. Griffey has had plenty of stress in his life I am sure the stress of large market media and fans pales in comparison to some of the things he has had to deal with publicly and privately.


In response to some of the negative comments by fans and posters, when JR leaves after this year people will be critical of other players with the Reds for not doing more with the community behind the scenes. The guy has been in a no win situation since he got here. I don't expect much to change after he leaves. Fans love a scapegoat, who's next on the list.

I don't see where TC is off in the least. I have always loved Junior, but facts is facts - he has no business playing the outfield more than one or two times a week for anyone (Reds included). He might be able to DH (or platoon @ DH) a couple of years for someone, but who's gonna deal anything of value for him with that contract?

I'd love to believe that he's just slumping or he's having an off year, but I can't. Fact is the years and the injuries have taken their toll. I don't think there's any left, other than what you see.

You can be "loyal" to KGJ and say people are being too harsh on him, but the brutally honesty of the situation is "the Kid" isn't any more.

With any other player, Cumberland or Henry could probably give you just as much at the plate with better D. Dickerson would give you less contact, but vastly improve the defense, Whn he returns, Hairston should be in CF and Bruce in Rf, but Junior is a HoFer and as such, deserves (and will receive) more defference.

The best result for everyone would probably be him playing two or three games a week in the 7-hole for the Reds until mid-September, then dealing him to the Mariners for something nomlnal (a $1) and let him retire a Mariner.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid it is going to be messier than that. I think he will stay in RF and the 3-spot in the lineup for the rest of the season, he'll hit the occasional mistake out once every week or two, but will mainly hit enough singles to stay in the .270/.280-range while his offensive defficiencies are apparent to even his biggest fans.

He'll hear more and more catcalls and boos from the home fans and become more and more bitter so he prolly won't make much of an issue out of a buyout (at least I hope not) and will try to find a taker for next season.

I hate to say it, but unless he makes some kind of miraculous resurgence, I don't think he'll find many takers. Sad to say, I don't see many (if any) American League clubs out there where Junior would be an upgrade @ DH and he helps no one as an OFer in the National League.

KronoRed
07-27-2008, 01:09 PM
After a nice play by the Rockies leftfielder to end the top of the second:

"That's how you catch a ball."

In the bottom of the second, after the second time a ball dropped in front of Griffey:

"That is absolutely beyond anything I've ever seen in my life."

Noting the ball dropped within 20 feet of Griffey: "The fans are booing and they should boo louder than what they did. That's embarrassing."

After Jay Bruce's fine play:

"After watching the ball drop for the second time in front of Griffey, the right-hander Bailey deserved a little bit of luck and he got some there.'

Nice, I'm sure when Brantley was stinking it up something awful the last 3 years of his career he would have applauded the radio guys taking pot shots at him.

WVRedsFan
07-27-2008, 01:28 PM
One last thing. Or maybe two...

Brantley was off base on his comments. He got personal and ran it into the ground the whole game. I realize that it gets frustrating watching this team, but does he go on and on at Encarnaction when he throws the ball over the first baseman's head about every four games? No. OTOH, I doubt Griffey knew anything about it.

Secondly, Junior Griffey at 38 is more productive than anyone else we could put out there on the roster or on the DL, if you catch my drift. No, he doesn't have the range in the outfield, but you can bet another player could have dived for those balls, miss it as has been done numerous times and given the batter a double. He couldn't get there and took the safest route.

membengal
07-27-2008, 01:36 PM
You think Brantley pulls punches on EE? The same Brantley who tried to drive EE to the city limits back in April?

OnBaseMachine
07-27-2008, 04:27 PM
Of Griffey’s gestures

By Hal McCoy | Sunday, July 27, 2008, 11:27 AM
Latest comment

As former President George Bush once said, “Read my lips.”

That’s pretty much what Ken Griffey Jr. was mouthing to the radio booth Saturday night after he hit a home run. And for those who can (or those who can’t) read lips, yes, that was an epithet Griffey uttered as he make a cut gesture across his throat at home plate.

It was aimed at radio broadcaster Jeff Brantley.

“Oh, you saw that?” said Griffey. Yes, and so did the television world.

Griffey said he was upset that Brantley said Griffey was pouting because the Reds haven’t picked up his $16 million option for next year.

“If I was worried about money, would I have even come here in the first place?” said Griffey.

Brantley denies ever saying that on the air and, in fact, said he didn’t say it until he and Griffey had an early-morning chat Sunday in the players dining room. Brantley believes Griffey was angry over comments he made about the defense of the corner outfielders (Griffey and Adam Dunn).

Anyway, that’s the genesis of Griffey’s gesture. And do you know how I found out about this?

I was nearly Josh Fogg-ed in the press box Saturday night. With my eyes on my laptop as I wrote, I heard Reds PR man Rob Butcher yell, “Hal, duck.” I dropped my head and covered it with both hands. I felt the ball graze the hairs on the back of my hands.

The ball was fouled by Griffey.

After the game, I said to him, “I thought you were my friend?”

Said Griffey, “That wasn’t meant for you. That was meant to boxes down.”

Griffey didn’t know his foul ball nearly maimed me. He thought I was referring to his gesture toward Brantley.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

mth123
07-27-2008, 04:30 PM
So how does Griffey know about anything Brantley said during the game while the game is going on?

Ron Madden
07-27-2008, 04:48 PM
I'd like to see someone swat a knot on Brantleys head. :D

SirFelixCat
07-27-2008, 05:24 PM
FWIW, he was (Jr.) pretty much a **** to me when I approached him during the series @ Chavez Ravine.

Really, REALLY soured me on the guy. My idol growing up too.

GAC
07-27-2008, 07:07 PM
You think Brantley pulls punches on EE? The same Brantley who tried to drive EE to the city limits back in April?

And lets don't forget his remarks about Todd Coffey. ;)

Spring~Fields
07-27-2008, 07:12 PM
So how does Griffey know about anything Brantley said during the game while the game is going on?

Maybe text or cell calls

WVRedsFan
07-27-2008, 07:28 PM
Maybe text or cell calls

Or maybe, like someone said, someone in the clubhouse had a radio on. Who knows?

When things are going bad (something like 7 years running), tempers are short in the broadcast booth and on the field. It's time to do something different. This sure isn't working...

Jpup
07-27-2008, 07:29 PM
Of Griffey’s gestures

By Hal McCoy | Sunday, July 27, 2008, 11:27 AM
Latest comment

As former President George Bush once said, “Read my lips.”

That’s pretty much what Ken Griffey Jr. was mouthing to the radio booth Saturday night after he hit a home run. And for those who can (or those who can’t) read lips, yes, that was an epithet Griffey uttered as he make a cut gesture across his throat at home plate.

It was aimed at radio broadcaster Jeff Brantley.

“Oh, you saw that?” said Griffey. Yes, and so did the television world.

Griffey said he was upset that Brantley said Griffey was pouting because the Reds haven’t picked up his $16 million option for next year.

“If I was worried about money, would I have even come here in the first place?” said Griffey.

Brantley denies ever saying that on the air and, in fact, said he didn’t say it until he and Griffey had an early-morning chat Sunday in the players dining room. Brantley believes Griffey was angry over comments he made about the defense of the corner outfielders (Griffey and Adam Dunn).

Anyway, that’s the genesis of Griffey’s gesture. And do you know how I found out about this?

I was nearly Josh Fogg-ed in the press box Saturday night. With my eyes on my laptop as I wrote, I heard Reds PR man Rob Butcher yell, “Hal, duck.” I dropped my head and covered it with both hands. I felt the ball graze the hairs on the back of my hands.

The ball was fouled by Griffey.

After the game, I said to him, “I thought you were my friend?”

Said Griffey, “That wasn’t meant for you. That was meant to boxes down.”

Griffey didn’t know his foul ball nearly maimed me. He thought I was referring to his gesture toward Brantley.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

I have always loved Griffey, but he has some thin skin. He should apologize. If he has a problem with Brantley, he should take care of it off the field. He seems very bitter.

Matt700wlw
07-27-2008, 07:40 PM
FWIW, he was (Jr.) pretty much a **** to me when I approached him during the series @ Chavez Ravine.

Really, REALLY soured me on the guy. My idol growing up too.
he's very sensative about himself....his ego can't handle critisism..worthy or not! I'm sure by saying this, ill be ripped.....KGJ is a whiner....period

Jpup
07-27-2008, 07:41 PM
he's very sensative about himself....his ego can't handle critisism..worthy or not! I'm sure by saying this, ill be ripped.......truth is truth

:clap:

Always Red
07-27-2008, 07:44 PM
I have always loved Griffey, but he has some thin skin. He should apologize. If he has a problem with Brantley, he should take care of it off the field. He seems very bitter.

Bad form on both sides.

This kind of crap makes a year like this even worse.

Brantley has been unprofessional at times ever since he has been in this job.

Very childish and completely unprofessional for Griffey to retaliate publicly.

Jpup
07-27-2008, 07:45 PM
Bad form on both sides.

This kind of crap makes a year like this even worse.

Brantley has been unprofessional at times ever since he has been in this job.

Very childish and completely unprofessional for Griffey to do this publicly.

absolutely agree.

Matt700wlw
07-27-2008, 07:59 PM
:clap:

at least u have my back....

KoryMac5
07-27-2008, 08:06 PM
he's very sensative about himself....his ego can't handle critisism..worthy or not! I'm sure by saying this, ill be ripped.......truth is truth He looks for this crap.....

No one doubts that Griffey is sensitive to certain comments, many superstars are. Suggesting his ego can't handle criticism is a little over the top. He hasn't played well this year and much of the criticism in regards to his play have been well deserved. But when you look at it, is the criticism amplified because he is Ken Griffey Jr.

I think that is where you get the sensitivity from.

I have to think it bothers him that some players on this team are often in the spotlight of criticism (Jr and Dunn) while others only spend a brief period of time dealing with it. It has hardened him over the years, and is really a shame that one of the best players of all time gets more criticism than some who have cheated and disgraced the game of baseball.

Matt700wlw
07-27-2008, 08:18 PM
No one doubts that Griffey is sensitive to certain comments, many superstars are. Suggesting his ego can't handle criticism is a little over the top. He hasn't played well this year and much of the criticism in regards to his play have been well deserved. But when you look at it, is the criticism amplified because he is Ken Griffey Jr.

I think that is where you get the sensitivity from.

I have to think it bothers him that some players on this team are often in the spotlight of criticism (Jr and Dunn) while others only spend a brief period of time dealing with it. It has hardened him over the years, and is really a shame that one of the best players of all time gets more criticism than some who have cheated and disgraced the game of baseball. I'm a Griffey guy all the way......but a lot of his critisism is self deserving

Always Red
07-27-2008, 08:19 PM
I have to think it bothers him that some players on this team are often in the spotlight of criticism (Jr and Dunn) while others only spend a brief period of time dealing with it. It has hardened him over the years, and is really a shame that one of the best players of all time gets more criticism than some who have cheated and disgraced the game of baseball.

Really?

I think the criticism of Junior here from the media is really extremely mild, as compared to how it would be if he were in NY, California or Chicago. Do you think any of the beat guys would be a little more vocal in those locales about asking Dusty why he insists on continuing to bat Junior 3rd? I think they'd be asking Dusty on a weekly basis why he continues to hit his best hitters 5th and 6th.

Yes, it's wonderful that Junior chose not to do illegal drugs. It doesn't give him a free pass for pulling a stunt like he did this weekend. It was bush; my opinion of him, as a man, is lower now than it was before. I'm sure that Junior doesn't care.

And Brantley is no better.

This is exactly the kind of stuff that keeps fans away in droves during losing seasons.

Matt700wlw
07-27-2008, 08:23 PM
Really?

I think the criticism of Junior here from the media is really extremely mild, as compared to how it would be if he were in NY, California or Chicago. Do you think any of the beat guys would be a little more vocal in those locales about asking Dusty why he insists on continuing to bat Junior 3rd? I think they'd be asking Dusty on a weekly basis why he continues to hit his best hitters 5th and 6th.

Yes, it's wonderful that Junior chose not to do illegal drugs. It doesn't give him a free pass for pulling a stunt like he did this weekend. It was bush; my opinion of him, as a man, is lower now than it was before. I'm sure that Junior doesn't care.

And Brantley is no better.

This is exactly the kind of stuff that keeps fans away in droves during losing seasons.

junior has it pretty good here

KoryMac5
07-27-2008, 08:40 PM
Really?

I think the criticism of Junior here from the media is really extremely mild, as compared to how it would be if he were in NY, California or Chicago. Do you think any of the beat guys would be a little more vocal in those locales about asking Dusty why he insists on continuing to bat Junior 3rd? I think they'd be asking Dusty on a weekly basis why he continues to hit his best hitters 5th and 6th.

Yes, it's wonderful that Junior chose not to do illegal drugs. It doesn't give him a free pass for pulling a stunt like he did this weekend. It was bush; my opinion of him, as a man, is lower now than it was before. I'm sure that Junior doesn't care.

And Brantley is no better.

This is exactly the kind of stuff that keeps fans away in droves during losing seasons.


Again, is all the criticism on Jr valid is my point. Dusty is the guy who makes out the lineup card not JR. So if you need someone to blame for that decision look no further than the man who rolls the dice.

The gesture towards Brantley was unprofessional and I am sure there is more to it than we know at this point. Bush league is a bit extreme I have seen players do a heck of a lot worse.

As far as your thoughts on Griffey the man, go ask Stenson's son what he thinks of Jr., ask the boy who Jr. sat with after his grandfather had a heart attack what he thinks of the man, ask all the kids from the make a wish foundation how they feel about Griffey the man. Unfortunately how we shape our opinions of men often is reflected by what we want to see.

Razor Shines
07-27-2008, 09:01 PM
he's very sensative about himself....his ego can't handle critisism..worthy or not! I'm sure by saying this, ill be ripped.....KGJ is a whiner....period

I see you went back and threw "whiner" in there after a few pages.

Anyway as far as him being thin skinned. He probably is, but so are other great athletes, it might be a requirement for being a great athlete.

I know I read somewhere (for the life of me I can't remember where) that at times Michael Jordan would almost invent reasons to feel disrespected, or something to that effect, by opposing players during games. He felt it gave him a little bit of an added advantage.

Tiger Woods seems to be somewhat thin skinned. The Stephen Ames incident of a few years ago is just one example of that. What Ames said wasn't really all that bad, but Tiger used the comment to motivate himself and thoroughly trounce Ames.

Reggie Miller is another. He's not in the class of the guys above but he was one of the greatest shooters in the history of the NBA. He got into several altercations throughout his career a lot of them with fans. He played some of his best games while opposing crowds chanted "Reggie Sucks!"

And back to Jr. How many times over the years have we seen him jaw with fans and hit a homer or two in that game? He seems to use it to motivate himself. I'm sure others can think of a lot of other great athletes who are/were thin-skinned.

I don't know whether it's right or wrong, but IMO it comes with the territory of being great. I don't think it means any of them are whiners. I have no problem with Jr giving Brantley or whoever a "throat slashing" gesture. Being caught on camera dropping the F-bomb was a bad thing and I'm sure he wishes he hadn't done it on camera.

Team Clark
07-27-2008, 09:03 PM
I always respect your insight on this board, but I have to say you are way off base on this one. Griffey is motivated these days by one thing and that is his family. Every move he makes is designed with his wife and kids in mind. The large market clubs may be a place he doesn't want his wife and kids exposed to. I for one enjoy living in a smaller community without all the hassle the big city has to offer. Griffey has had plenty of stress in his life I am sure the stress of large market media and fans pales in comparison to some of the things he has had to deal with publicly and privately.


In response to some of the negative comments by fans and posters, when JR leaves after this year people will be critical of other players with the Reds for not doing more with the community behind the scenes. The guy has been in a no win situation since he got here. I don't expect much to change after he leaves. Fans love a scapegoat, who's next on the list.

I respect your opinion but I have to tell you I really do not think I am way off base here. Maybe I am and you pointed out some reasons that I may be off my rocker but I really do not think that I am.

hebroncougar
07-27-2008, 09:07 PM
I'll just say it was extremely unprofessional of Griffey to do what he did. And some of the Reds radio guys need to learn they are calling a baseball game, not Andy Furman and try to make ripping of Reds players a daily occurance. They aren't a call in radio show trying to stir up controversy, it's a game. I understand that criticism is warranted in some instances, but really, enough is enough.

Team Clark
07-27-2008, 09:08 PM
FWIW, he was (Jr.) pretty much a **** to me when I approached him during the series @ Chavez Ravine.

Really, REALLY soured me on the guy. My idol growing up too.

Ran into that with Cal Ripken. Broke my heart. Oddly enough Eddie Murray and Albert Belle were as nice as could be. Must have been a full moon and half of hell froze over that day.

Always Red
07-27-2008, 09:16 PM
Unfortunately how we shape our opinions of men often is reflected by what we want to see.

Yes, but unfortunately, I didn't want to see Junior do what he did.

But he did it.

I am aware of a lot of the good stuff Junior has done- I am not now and have never been a Junior basher. And what does Stenson's son have to do with this incident? Nothing at all. Junior doesn't get a free pass for this because he's a good guy to a dead ex-teammates son, or because he chose not to do steroids. And yes, my opinion of Junior remains diminished a bit because of this incident. My opinion of men (since you brought it up) is of their total character and actions; this is certainly a negative- I admit a mild one. I guess I could say that I'm surprised to find that some will rationalize any kind of behavior from their heroes?

Aren't you surprised this kind of pettiness would be coming from a legend- a sure fire first ballot Hall of Famer? Junior wants to be known as, and in my mind is, a family man. Many, many kids who look up to him saw him directing an F-bomb and a throat slash on TV.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'll stick with "bush league." Because it was. More to it than this? Yes, maybe Jeff Brantley is a jerkwad in private towards Junior; he certainly doesn't hold back much on the air, and it wouldn't surprise me if they had words privately before this. Brantley is as much to blame for this as Junior is- and certainly instigated this.

Virginia Beach Reds
07-27-2008, 09:36 PM
I'm afraid this comment was directed in our direction. We were at the game last night, and the guy I was with (who was wearing a Griffey jersey) was riding Griffey like a pony. We were sitting in row 3 down the right field line and when he dogged that fly, my buddy was really getting into him. After then next half inning, Griffey was obviously very upset by his comments, he took his glove off and held up 10 (I presume for Gold Gloves) and then pretended to hand him his glove. As much as we were being loud and obnoxious, I felt it was pretty lame for a professional athlete to do that. In fact, my friend is a big Griffey fan who travelled a very far distance to see this game.

After he hit the homer, he gestured up to us when we were chearing for him. He wouldn't look our way the rest of the game, but you could tell that we were under his skin. It was pretty sad.

Looking up at the scoreboard, the Rockies had 15 hits and 1 run in the 4th, it was very embarrassing to everyone.

jojo
07-27-2008, 09:38 PM
I'm afraid this comment was directed in our direction. We were at the game last night, and the guy I was with (who was wearing a Griffey jersey) was riding Griffey like a pony. We were sitting in row 3 down the right field line and when he dogged that fly, my buddy was really getting into him. After then next half inning, Griffey was obviously very upset by his comments, he took his glove off and held up 10 (I presume for Gold Gloves) and then pretended to hand him his glove. As much as we were being loud and obnoxious, I felt it was pretty lame for a professional athlete to do that. In fact, my friend is a big Griffey fan who travelled a very far distance to see this game.

After he hit the homer, he gestured up to us when we were chearing for him. He wouldn't look our way the rest of the game, but you could tell that we were under his skin. It was pretty sad.

Looking up at the scoreboard, the Rockies had 15 hits and 1 run in the 4th, it was very embarrassing to everyone.


Ya. I find it difficult to believe that Jr was reacting to a comment that Brantley had made during the game....

Always Red
07-27-2008, 09:49 PM
Ya. I find it difficult to believe that Jr was reacting to a comment that Brantley had made during the game....


Of Griffey’s gestures

By Hal McCoy | Sunday, July 27, 2008, 11:27 AM
Latest comment

As former President George Bush once said, “Read my lips.”

That’s pretty much what Ken Griffey Jr. was mouthing to the radio booth Saturday night after he hit a home run. And for those who can (or those who can’t) read lips, yes, that was an epithet Griffey uttered as he make a cut gesture across his throat at home plate.

It was aimed at radio broadcaster Jeff Brantley.

“Oh, you saw that?” said Griffey. Yes, and so did the television world.

Griffey said he was upset that Brantley said Griffey was pouting because the Reds haven’t picked up his $16 million option for next year.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

KittyDuran
07-27-2008, 09:56 PM
http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/I think we have two different incidents from the same game... I was at the game but didn't see the dropping of the F-bomb or the throat slashing gesture - BUT I did see Junior get a little agitated out in RF (didn't know why) before the HR.

KittyDuran
07-27-2008, 09:59 PM
http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/This from the Sun Deck...


Ok guys I went to the game and I have some insight on this situation. When the first ball was hit to Griffey tonight dropped in front of him, a guy in front of us yelled at Griff. After that Griff wouldn't throw or anything for the rest of the game ( between innings). The next inning Griffey hit the home run. He then comes back out and the guy is still yelling at Griff (although he kept mixing it up between hatin on Griff and lovin on Griff). I mean the guy actually liked Griffey (he was wearing a Griff jersey) but at times if he didn't like what Griff was doin he would throw some off the wall comments to Griff. Then the next ball that was hit to Griff in the air was caught, Griffey looked at the guy and grabbed his crotch ( a heres what I think of you by Griffey). Griff was obviously pissed off for most of this game. I think it was because of this guy, but I don't know if his homerun gesture was to him since the guy was sitting out near right field. Take it for what it is worth.

Razor Shines
07-27-2008, 10:03 PM
I'm afraid this comment was directed in our direction. We were at the game last night, and the guy I was with (who was wearing a Griffey jersey) was riding Griffey like a pony. We were sitting in row 3 down the right field line and when he dogged that fly, my buddy was really getting into him. After then next half inning, Griffey was obviously very upset by his comments, he took his glove off and held up 10 (I presume for Gold Gloves) and then pretended to hand him his glove. As much as we were being loud and obnoxious, I felt it was pretty lame for a professional athlete to do that. In fact, my friend is a big Griffey fan who travelled a very far distance to see this game.

After he hit the homer, he gestured up to us when we were chearing for him. He wouldn't look our way the rest of the game, but you could tell that we were under his skin. It was pretty sad.

Looking up at the scoreboard, the Rockies had 15 hits and 1 run in the 4th, it was very embarrassing to everyone.
I was sitting in the family section in the second row just to the foul side of the RF foul pole. I was in the Machine Room during the first two innings so I didn't hear what you guys said to him, but I did notice that everyone in our section gave him a standing O after the homer and the throw he made and I thought it was odd that he ignored all of us. Now I know why.

Someone threw a AD bobble head into RF during the top of the 9th. I don't know if it was thrown at JR or not, I didn't see it thrown, I just saw it on the field.

Virginia Beach Reds
07-27-2008, 10:18 PM
This from the Sun Deck...

Yep, that was it! My good friend, who was in my wedding, was in rare form. He wasn't using profanity, just being really loud, and several people in our section were upset that he was voicing his opinion. Griffey was very agitated, grabbing his crotch, gesturing up our way. It was unprofessional. To be fair though, my buddy was riding him hard and his voice does pronounce! It was pretty funny, to say the least. I thought it was all in good fun.

He clearly should have had that ball to right, IMO, which set off the entire siutation.

Reds1
07-27-2008, 10:56 PM
Yep, that was it! My good friend, who was in my wedding, was in rare form. He wasn't using profanity, just being really loud, and several people in our section were upset that he was voicing his opinion. Griffey was very agitated, grabbing his crotch, gesturing up our way. It was unprofessional. To be fair though, my buddy was riding him hard and his voice does pronounce! It was pretty funny, to say the least. I thought it was all in good fun.

He clearly should have had that ball to right, IMO, which set off the entire siutation.

The thing is guys he dropped the F bomb to someone behind the dugout not even close to RF. Sounds like griffey has a bad game from a fan perspective. How sad at home with all the cool stuff Griffey does and plays everday and people jump him. It's hard for fans because they know he won 10 gold gloves and he's not there, but it doesn't IMO give the people the right. He made a fantastic throw and he still gets good reads. I mean Bruce makes terrible reads sometimes and he's loved. That has to hurt Griffey some. I think that's some of the same feelings Phillips had towards Hamilton.

What I find interesting though is Griffey did respond with a HR and a fantastic through. As a fan you see that and I'm like why doesn't he do this all the time. I guess we all need motivated from time to time. Just a crazy event. I mean somethign happened. This was a little post and it has over 3000 views and tons of replies. Thanks for the insight though.

KoryMac5
07-27-2008, 11:12 PM
Yes, but unfortunately, I didn't want to see Junior do what he did.

But he did it.

I am aware of a lot of the good stuff Junior has done- I am not now and have never been a Junior basher. And what does Stenson's son have to do with this incident? Nothing at all. Junior doesn't get a free pass for this because he's a good guy to a dead ex-teammates son, or because he chose not to do steroids. And yes, my opinion of Junior remains diminished a bit because of this incident. My opinion of men (since you brought it up) is of their total character and actions; this is certainly a negative- I admit a mild one. I guess I could say that I'm surprised to find that some will rationalize any kind of behavior from their heroes?

Aren't you surprised this kind of pettiness would be coming from a legend- a sure fire first ballot Hall of Famer? Junior wants to be known as, and in my mind is, a family man. Many, many kids who look up to him saw him directing an F-bomb and a throat slash on TV.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'll stick with "bush league." Because it was. More to it than this? Yes, maybe Jeff Brantley is a jerkwad in private towards Junior; he certainly doesn't hold back much on the air, and it wouldn't surprise me if they had words privately before this. Brantley is as much to blame for this as Junior is- and certainly instigated this.

I don't think anyone on this thread is rationalizing Jr's behavior, many of us including myself have been critical of Jr's involvement in all of this. Things happen in the heat of the moment and we often do things that we regret. He is a professional baseball player and a role model, but he is also human and has the right to make mistakes "Bush League" or not. Unfortunately public opinion of Jr. has been shaped by years of what he hasn't done for the Reds which makes him a big lightning rod for criticism.


I guess my biggest problem with this situation is that their seems to be a lot of "piling on".

WVRedsFan
07-27-2008, 11:21 PM
You know what I'm having trouble understanding? How these so called "Griff Lovers" are giving the guy a hard time and messing with him. I really don't understand how anyone can do that at a baseball game. Maybe I'm too polite, I don't know. But I think it's rude behavior and not "all in good fun."

OnBaseMachine
07-28-2008, 12:03 AM
You know what I'm having trouble understanding? How these so called "Griff Lovers" are giving the guy a hard time and messing with him. I really don't understand how anyone can do that at a baseball game. Maybe I'm too polite, I don't know. But I think it's rude behavior and not "all in good fun."

I agree. I've grown frustrated with Griffey's defense but I still love the guy and would never boo him or scream nasty things at him. Or any player for that matter. I don't mind people booing a stupid play or something like that but screaming vulgar jabs at players is out of line IMO.

WVRedsFan
07-28-2008, 01:11 AM
I agree. I've grown frustrated with Griffey's defense but I still love the guy and would never boo him or scream nasty things at him. Or any player for that matter. I don't mind people booing a stupid play or something like that but screaming vulgar jabs at players is out of line IMO.

so true, OBM. There was a time, long, long ago, when players got respect from fans for their accomplishments. I know this is old fashioned, but can you imagine Cardinal fans booing Stan Musial or Yankee fans booing Mickey Mantle? It might have happened, but I don't remember it. So many fans think just because the guy on the field is a major league player that they are fair game for any harrassment they want to put out. It's like the high school football game where the parent yells to kill the opponent and cheers when the opposing player gets hurt. Always drives me crazy.

Junior, despite what everyone wants to think and believe, has been productive offensively in a Reds uniform. Sure, his defensive skills are pretty much gone because of his legs. He still has uncanny sight and can see the ball very well, but sometimes he knows he can't get to a ball and does the next best thing and uses his head to pay the ball the best he can. He's slow and that's part of getting older. It happens to all of us. Even with all of that, Griff is 3rd on the team wiht 50 RBI's, 3rd om Hr's, and has better plate discipline than any of the newcomers to this team everyone loves. Yep, he's nearly 39 years old, but his legacy will always be the guy who did it the right way. Maybe he should be elsewhere and maybe he's getting long in tooth, but name one player who could be playing rightfield who is better at this point in time. Many would say Freel or Hopper (and I pray for them daily). I don't understand.

I have to say that I've never booed a player in my life. I might be disgusted when Fogg or Graves stunk up the show, but to boo or to harrass a player is just not what I do and never will. And I won't yell for the team I prefer to kill the other opponent either. It's just not in my makeup.

Jpup
07-28-2008, 05:45 AM
sname one player who could be playing rightfield who is better at this point in time.

Jay Bruce.

icehole3
07-28-2008, 06:49 AM
Jay Bruce.

OK name 2 players

:p:

cumberlandreds
07-28-2008, 08:07 AM
Nobody was more excited than me in February of 2000....I was talking smack to my dormmates, who happened to be Indians fans, about how the Reds had just returned themselves to glory......well, sadly it hasn't worked out....AT ALL....it's been a pretty bitter reunion....both parties need to move on without each other. Having the priveledge of watching one of the greatest players in baseball history wear Red is something I will always cherish, though....even if it wasn't his greatest years. I've also been lucky enough to be part of history, although a very small part....I captured the radio calls of HR's 500 and 600, and countless in between. Running the Reds Radio Network full time for 4 and a half years allowed tthat to happen, and I'm thankful for that....it was a great opportunity for a 23 year old kid to get

Well said Matt. It past time for the Reds and Griffey to move. It just hasn't worked here. A player never get in a "dust up" with the fans. That's a no win situation. A professional ballplayer has to ignore anything said by a fan. If the fan throws something at you. Then you walk off the field for your own safety. If an announcer says something about you that you don't like. You talk privately to him about about it and settle your differences in private not out in the open. Griffey has had "sensitivity" issues much of career. IIRC he had some kind of flare up with Sparky Anderson over something he said about Junior very early in his career. That sensitivity may go a long way in explaining why he isn't a leader and why he has never been on more winning teams.

SirFelixCat
07-28-2008, 09:41 AM
he's very sensative about himself....his ego can't handle critisism..worthy or not! I'm sure by saying this, ill be ripped.....KGJ is a whiner....period

No, I'm saying I approached him for an autograph and he was a total **** to me. All I did was let him know I've followed him since I was a kid in Portland and even had a box of his candy bars and all I wanted was a single autograph and he was a total **** to me.

Really lost a lot of respect for him that day.

WVRedsFan
07-28-2008, 09:50 AM
Jay Bruce.:)

I guess that means Patterson in center???

Matt700wlw
07-28-2008, 09:50 AM
I wonder if FSN will be fined...I would hope not.

If so, Griffey should pay it...

15fan
07-28-2008, 10:07 AM
Solution to all of this is simple:

Brantley should sack up, take the mound, and pitch to Junior.

a la Roy Hobbs v. The Whammer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_q9TKrZyQQ)

Proceeds going to charity, of course.

(If I had a wager, I'd put it on the Whammer in this matchup...)

BCubb2003
07-28-2008, 10:19 AM
"It' just Griffey being Griffey."

Unassisted
07-28-2008, 05:32 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Ken-Griffey-throws-a-throat-slash-toward-Jeff-Br?urn=mlb,96385




Monday, Jul 28, 2008 10:50 am EDT
Ken Griffey throws a throat slash toward Jeff Brantley's booth

By 'Duk

For having played 20 seasons during a baseball era filled with controversy over steroids and escalating salaries, Ken Griffey Jr. has kept his reputation remarkably clean. Off the top of my head, I can't think of one situation where Griffey drew a lot of fire for something he did or said, unless it was some codger like Buck Showalter complaining about how Griffey used to wear his hat backwards in batting practice. (I also seem to remember Griffey being mad at ESPN for something, but the exact details are not ringing a bell and Internet searchin' is proving fruitless.)

Anyway, there apparently is a first time for everything because Griffey is sure to draw plenty of fire for his actions on Saturday night, when he puzzled fans by making a throat slash gesture after he hit his 607th career homer and crossed home plate.

Initial speculation was that Griffey was making the gesture toward someone in the stands, but legendary beat writer Hal McCoy later clarified that it was meant for Reds announcer Jeff Brantley.

From the Dayton Daily News:


Griffey is angry over different comments Brantley made and said one of them was, "He said I'm pouting because the Reds haven't picked up my option ($16 million) for next year. If I was that concerned about money I wouldn't have come here in the first place."

Brantley said he never said that and the subject wasn't broached until Brantley and Griffey sat down in the players dining room early Sunday, "And I think he's upset that I said something about the defense of the corner outfielders (Adam Dunn, Griffey)," said Brantley.

As much as Brantley might be baseball's leading purveyor of hot air (http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2008/04/03/jeff-brantley-stands-awkwardly-corrected-on-edwin-encarnacion/), that still doesn't excuse Griffey making an on-field motion even more distasteful than Brantley's mullet. Considering that both Griffey and Brantley are theoretically on the same team, it'll be interesting to see how this one plays out. Pretending to slash someone's throat isn't something that's just easily explained away.

UPDATE: Awful Announcing has the video (http://awfulannouncing.blogspot.com/2008/07/griffey-throws-throat-slash-gesture-at.html), though it's a little hard to make out.

Blitz Dorsey
07-28-2008, 08:26 PM
I just want to know if a cheetah stretches before it gives the throat-slash gesture to its prey.

GAC
07-28-2008, 08:54 PM
Going into this season I carried an open mind with Brantley as an announcer. The guy is very knowledgable IMO, and especially on pitching.

But as the season progressed I've come to realize that this guy loves to hear himself talk. He is not only long-winded, but has an ego that is as big as Marty's.

On one end you got a George Grande who never says a critical thing during the broadcast, and is the perpetual optimist, a "company man" who tows the PR line.

Then you have Marty and Jeff.

I have no problem at all, during a game, when someone makes an error or flubs up, it being mentioned by the announcer. But Marty and Jeff carry it way, way past that any more. They go off on these diatribes and really pile on various players, calling these individuals out on the air. And they can't let it go either. It's like they have a vendetta. Three innings later, and even in the post game, they'll bring it back up again and pile on a specific player.

They can't let it go. When is enough enough?

Brantley has had numerous situations now where he has really ragged on various players. From Coffey to Encarnacion. Marty has his biases too.

Some say Jr should act like a professional in these situations. And throughout his career, and we're talking about during the game, he always has.

But so shouldn't announcers like Marty and Jeff?

When is someone going to hold them accountable for their unprofessionalism?

I'll tell ya what - if I was a ballplayer on this team, and I was having to listen to these two bozos ragging on either me or my teammates on a daily basis from that broadcast booth, I'd probably do far more then making a throat slashing gesture.

No, that doesn't excuse what Jr did. But he's human. He can be taunted by a fan in the stands, while also catching it from the broadcast booth - and he should always ignore that and be the professional? And when he's not, he can expect to catch it from that side too. He can't win.

And from what I have read, Brantley is not well liked in that clubhouse anymore. It might behoove the Reds (WLW) to cut ties with this guy after the season.

remdog
07-28-2008, 09:40 PM
If this was between Jr. and Brantley then it's no to different from what has gone on between players and the media for generations. Johnny Temple didn't stop at a simple @#$#$%, he punched Earl Lawson's lights out! Jr.'s only mistake was that it got caught for a fleeting moment on TV.

Rem

Blitz Dorsey
07-28-2008, 10:10 PM
Johnny Temple was an idiot if he was upset that the official scorer/sportswriter (those were the days) gave him an error for a ball that went through his legs.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,809611,00.html

Always Red
07-28-2008, 10:17 PM
Ill will over Griffey gesture lingers

By John Fay
jfay@enquirer.com

HOUSTON – Ken Griffey Jr. and Jeff Brantley spoke.

So is everything good between them?

“No,” Brantley said. “How can it be when someone gives you a death signal from the dugout?”

Said Griffey: “I’m not going to talk about it.”

Griffey made the gesture after hitting a home run in Saturday’s game. He ran his finger along his throat.

“You can’t do that in the NFL or the NBA,” Brantley said.

Griffey was upset about Brantley saying Griffey has been pouting because the Reds have not pick up his option for the next year.

Brantley denied saying that.

“The only thing I said is the ball in right field should have been caught,” Brantley said.

A fly ball fell in front of Griffey in the first inning of Saturday’s game.

Brantley – and all broadcasters – have been asked to stay out of the players lounge and dining room.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080728/SPT04/80728009&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

Big Klu
07-28-2008, 11:02 PM
I wonder what Nux would think about this.... :(

Blitz Dorsey
07-28-2008, 11:25 PM
Griffey is coming across like, well, pretty much like I expected. Brantley is coming across like a man. He owns up to what he said, tries to talk to Griffey in person (without being a jerk and trying to start a fistfight) and is just generally honest about everything. Brantley rubs people the wrong way, but he's one of the few announcers who is honest all of the time (which won't last for long since everyone gets on his butt for being too honest). Griffey just comes across as aloof and removed as usual. Griffey is beyond criticism in Griffey's mind.

Patrick Bateman
07-29-2008, 12:29 AM
Griffey seems to have been taking his defensive slide very poorly. Based on what Brantley says, this is just another reason. In his mind, he's still that gold glove CF out there.

_Sir_Charles_
07-29-2008, 12:34 AM
I agree. I've grown frustrated with Griffey's defense but I still love the guy and would never boo him or scream nasty things at him. Or any player for that matter. I don't mind people booing a stupid play or something like that but screaming vulgar jabs at players is out of line IMO.

I agree completely. And I get disgusted when I hear Junior getting booed in Cincy. When Junior was announced here in Houston tonight, he got a VERY nice ovation. It seems he's appreciated MORE outside of Cincy...and that's beyond being just a shame. He's pure class and he deserves respect IMO.

remdog
07-29-2008, 12:57 AM
Griffey is coming across like, well, pretty much like I expected. Brantley is coming across like a man. He owns up to what he said, tries to talk to Griffey in person (without being a jerk and trying to start a fistfight) and is just generally honest about everything. Brantley rubs people the wrong way, but he's one of the few announcers who is honest all of the time (which won't last for long since everyone gets on his butt for being too honest). Griffey just comes across as aloof and removed as usual. Griffey is beyond criticism in Griffey's mind.


But you know all of these things to be true. Sorry, (well I'm really not) but you come across as aloof and removed as usual. You state things as though it were fact yet you weren't there.

As far as Brantly owning up to what he said, I don't get the radio feed so I don't know what he said nor when he might have said it. Maybe it wasn't said on air. Maybe it was something that Brantley was spreading among other employees. Those things happen, ya' know?

Rem

penantboundreds
07-29-2008, 12:58 AM
on a lighter side, and to rip someone who hasn't been ripped in this thread i will say this: whoever wrote that initial blog post or article about the ball almost hitting them, is AN AWFUL writer.....I had to read it like three times to make any sense of it.




Griffey said he was upset that Brantley said Griffey was pouting because the Reds haven’t picked up his $16 million option for next year.

Brantley denies ever saying that on the air and, in fact, said he didn’t say it until he and Griffey had an early-morning chat Sunday in the players dining room. Brantley believes Griffey was angry over comments he made about the defense of the corner outfielders (Griffey and Adam Dunn).



those are terrrrrrrrrrrrrrribly written?

remdog
07-29-2008, 12:59 AM
I agree completely. And I get disgusted when I hear Junior getting booed in Cincy. When Junior was announced here in Houston tonight, he got a VERY nice ovation. It seems he's appreciated MORE outside of Cincy...and that's beyond being just a shame. He's pure class and he deserves respect IMO.


The way Jr. has been treated in his time in Cincinnati lays waste to the idea that Cincinnati fans are among the best. They are not.

Rem

Ron Madden
07-29-2008, 03:57 AM
I believe Brantley has every right to be objective and to call the game as he sees it, nothing wrong with that. IMHO he often steps over the line by questioning a players intelligence or manhood.

Baseball is not an easy game, Players need a lot of talent and a lil'bit of luck. On every play one player succeeds and another fails, intestinal fortitude has very little to do with it.

Jeff Brantley was absolutely right when he said KGJ should have caught that ball hit in front of him.

Jeff Brantley was dead wrong when he said more fans should have booed KGJ.

Give me Steve Stewart any day.

Wheelhouse
07-29-2008, 06:31 AM
This is all just the beginning of graceless exit for Griffey. He's clearly suffering from bitterness that his ability is leaving him, and his sensitivity is at an all-time high. His moniker "the kid" applies to not only his having fun at the game, but in that he's never really grown up in how he deals with what people say. When Senior was asked the biggest challenge Jr. faced in coming to Cincinnati, he said, "growing up." On another level, the job Brantley has to do as the color guy is three fold: 1) provide professional insights into the game 2) honestly call plays as he sees them and 3) entertain listeners. He does his job exceedingly well on all counts. Griffey, on the other hand, has not been doing his job that well and is starting to "act out." I don't think this is the ugliest moment in Jr's exit from Cincinnati--sadly, more to come...

Wheelhouse
07-29-2008, 06:35 AM
This picture BTW perfectly illustates Griffey's infancy -- look how the crowd is cheering him after the HR... he chooses to ignore the ovation and stew in his bitterness by making an ugly gesture to the booth.
http://cmsimg.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=AB&Dato=20080729&Kategori=SPT04&Lopenr=807290320&Ref=TS&NewTbl=1&MaxW=390&Border=0

icehole3
07-29-2008, 06:44 AM
I agree, he basically disrespects the people of Cincy in that photo and if you took a poll of Reds fans the majority of fans still wouldnt care how Jr acts. He lost a ton of respect in my book and right now... he's zooming past the level rudeness Larkin exhibited on his way out, cant wait for this season to end at this point.

Blimpie
07-29-2008, 07:29 AM
I've never seen Junior dog it in the field. Trot to first on grounders, yeah. But not in the field.

He's just not fast anymore. At all. His first step is gone. He's not Junior anymore. He's an aging superstar slowed by time and years of injuries. And in spite of his years of experience in centerfield, he's playing a relatively new position and getting angles he didn't see before.

Did he misjudge the balls or was it lack of effort?

The kind of stuff Brantley spewed should be reserved for lack of effort.Ditto. The guy is pushing 40 and has bionic hamstrings for crying out loud.

Until they start allowing Baker to pencil in Jr. at the DH, where the hell else are you going to play him?

icehole3
07-29-2008, 07:52 AM
When guys hit 40 that are Hall of Famers they go to the infield some where right now he's looks bad in the OF.

nate
07-29-2008, 08:15 AM
This picture BTW perfectly illustates Griffey's infancy -- look how the crowd is cheering him after the HR... he chooses to ignore the ovation and stew in his bitterness by making an ugly gesture to the booth.
http://cmsimg.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=AB&Dato=20080729&Kategori=SPT04&Lopenr=807290320&Ref=TS&NewTbl=1&MaxW=390&Border=0

There was no chance to not ignore the ovation before or after the picture?

BuckeyeRedleg
07-29-2008, 08:27 AM
This picture BTW perfectly illustates Griffey's infancy -- look how the crowd is cheering him after the HR... he chooses to ignore the ovation and stew in his bitterness by making an ugly gesture to the booth.
http://cmsimg.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=AB&Dato=20080729&Kategori=SPT04&Lopenr=807290320&Ref=TS&NewTbl=1&MaxW=390&Border=0

I agree. This is uncalled for.

Whether it's Ken Griffey, Jr. or Milton Bradley, I don't think there is an excuse for this kind of behavior.

I love KGJ. He's always been a favorite of mine, but the time has come and I think they should do everything in their power to move him this week.

BCubb2003
07-29-2008, 08:48 AM
I'm a little surprised that the throat gesture is such an outrage. We've all done it as kids, and yes, it's OK to tell Griffey to not act childish. Same with Brantley. But I think it's way down on the list compared to Danny Graves' gesture, for instance.

Unassisted
07-29-2008, 08:54 AM
on a lighter side, and to rip someone who hasn't been ripped in this thread i will say this: whoever wrote that initial blog post or article about the ball almost hitting them, is AN AWFUL writer.....I had to read it like three times to make any sense of it.

those are terrrrrrrrrrrrrrribly written?

You're correct, but sadly this is not new or unusual. John Fay's butchery of the English language is a frequent topic of discussion here.

Always Red
07-29-2008, 08:59 AM
You're correct, but sadly this is not new or unusual. John Fay's butchery of the English language is a frequent topic of discussion here.

Not to end a good Fay-bashing, but the blog in question was written by the Hall of Famer (for baseball writing) Hal McCoy.

Roy Tucker
07-29-2008, 09:00 AM
I'm a little surprised that the throat gesture is such an outrage. We've all done it as kids, and yes, it's OK to tell Griffey to not act childish. Same with Brantley. But I think it's way down on the list compared to Danny Graves' gesture, for instance.

I think that the throat slash thing has gang overtones makes it all get a little more dicey. The NFL and NBA summarily banned it all.

I think it was poor judgment what Griffey did, but I'm not going to get all bent out of shape about it. Players and journalists (of varying types) have regularly gotten a case of the goo over each other. This is no different.

RFS62
07-29-2008, 09:04 AM
Second team in a row of Dusty's having a lot of trouble with announcers criticisms.

First Steve Stone, now Brantley.

NJReds
07-29-2008, 09:14 AM
The players shouldn't be that concerned with what the announcers are saying. If so, they should take it up in private. I'm a fan of Jr.'s, but what he did there was classless.

If management thinks what Jr. did was wrong, they should suspend him for a game. If not, then everyone should move on.

Unassisted
07-29-2008, 09:17 AM
Second team in a row of Dusty's having a lot of trouble with announcers criticisms.

First Steve Stone, now Brantley.Maybe Dusty's tipping off the players what's being said about them?

Chip R
07-29-2008, 09:18 AM
on a lighter side, and to rip someone who hasn't been ripped in this thread i will say this: whoever wrote that initial blog post or article about the ball almost hitting them, is AN AWFUL writer.....I had to read it like three times to make any sense of it.



And then there's this:


Said Griffey, “That wasn’t meant for you. That was meant to boxes down.”


I know it's a blog but, my goodness. That's something I'd expect from John Fay.

REDREAD
07-29-2008, 10:32 AM
For all of the crap Jr. has taken since he came 'home' I'm not going to vilify him. I'm more unhappy about the way the supposed 'fans' have treated him than anything that he said today.

Rem

That's my take too. Jr could've potentially gotten twice as much money to go somewhere other than Cincy. Jr was promised they'd build a winner around him if he "took less".

Ownership lied to him. He's been a target of constant abuse. When he gets hurt, people say he gets injured because he's too lazy to work out.. It goes on and on.

I'm sure Jr will look back and see that engineering the trade to Cincy was one of the biggest mistakes of his life. He's probably counting down the days until he can leave town.

REDREAD
07-29-2008, 10:38 AM
Not saying that at all. But I keep hearing that Griffey is going nowhere because he won't approve a trade. I keep wondering why. He'd obviously benefit on the field if he'd go to the AL and if he's as unhappy here as it appeared last night, why does he want to stay around? To win a championship? That could also be more likely with a deal. Usually when a person acts like that it isn't an isolated incident but the culmination of a series of frustrations. I'm guessing that whatever that fan said last night wasn't the sole reason for Griffey's actions, but more the straw that broke the camel's back. I could be wrong, but if I'm right I can't figue why Griffey would want to stay. Its fairly obvious from a baseball standpoint that its better for all parties if he'd move on.

Well, in your other post, you said Jr was an overpaid, declining star that was a drag on the team (basically). So, why would anyone want Jr?

Jr also has teammates that are friends. That may be why he wants to stick around. I wouldn't be too keen on moving to a new city for 2 months and then have to find another job.. In other words, I believe most players dislke being traded midseason. It's a huge pain (I imagine) to be called into the office and be told you have to move. Sure, it's part of the business and the players accept it, but I doubt anyone really likes it.

OnBaseMachine
07-29-2008, 10:53 AM
Brantley: Ill will lingers

By John Fay • jfay@enquirer.com • July 29, 2008

HOUSTON - Ken Griffey Jr. and Jeff Brantley spoke.

So is everything good between them?

"No," Brantley said. "How can it be when someone gives you a death signal from the dugout?"

Said Griffey: "I'm not going to talk about it."

Griffey made the gesture after hitting a home run in Saturday's game. He ran his finger along his throat.

"You can't do that in the NFL or the NBA," Brantley said.

Griffey was upset about Brantley saying Griffey has been pouting because the Reds have not picked up his option for next year.

Brantley denied saying that.

"The only thing I said is the ball in right field should have been caught," Brantley said.

A fly ball fell in front of Griffey in the first inning of Saturday's game.

Brantley - and all broadcasters - have been asked to stay out of the players lounge and dining room.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080729/SPT04/807290320/1071

top6
07-29-2008, 11:10 AM
Second team in a row of Dusty's having a lot of trouble with announcers criticisms.

First Steve Stone, now Brantley.

I came on here to post the exact same thing.

We all criticize Dusty's complete failure to understand statistics, and his inept strategic decisions and lineups, but there is always this vague sense that he is a good clubhouse guy and inspires his team to play hard. In reality, during games, his players are listening to the radio and whining about what the announcers say.

I also can't believe there are people on this thread who are defending Griffey, or are putting this in the context of his perceived unfair treatment from the fans. Even if that's true, what he did was absolutely classless and unprofessional. It would be one thing, maybe even a good thing, if he made that gesture in the heat of the moment and then apologized. But he didn't. He thinks he was right.

If he did the cyber-equivilent on this board, he would be warned or suspended or possibly banned, and rightfully so. (Just imagine if a poster said - in jest - "your posts on Dunn's strikeouts make me want to cut your throat.") If I were a business owner, and one of my employees made that gesture in front of and arguably to my customers, I would demand an apology, and if I didn't get it I would sever my ties with that employee. The fact that the Reds just let it go shows what a sad, weak and pathetic organization they are.

Unassisted
07-29-2008, 11:44 AM
He's probably counting down the days until he can leave town.He doesn't need to count. He could lengthen the list of teams to which he'd accept a trade to be longer than 1. After that, he'd be in someone else's clubhouse by the end of the month.

If it hurts so much to feel the stinging criticism in Cincinnati, he could also retire.

KoryMac5
07-29-2008, 12:01 PM
Criticism of Jr has been warranted this year, he hasn't played up to his salary and embarrassed himself with the gesture. I do think though that when Dunn and Jr. are the focus of criticism it tends to be more intense than criticism of Bruce, Votto, and Phillips. I'd like to say it is due to salary, but unfortunately I think it is more than that.

OnBaseMachine
07-29-2008, 04:39 PM
My take on Griffey v. Brantley
Posted by JohnFay at 7/29/2008 4:25 PM EDT on Cincinnati.com

Here's my quick take on the Ken Griffey Jr. versus Jeff Brantley deal or ordeal:

Griffey was wrong to make the gesture.

Brantley has every right to say Griffey should have caught the ball, but encouraging the fans to boo is going to tick off any player. Still, that doesn't give the player the right to react like Griffey did.

What puzzles me is why Griffey still gets worked up about what a broadcaster says or a writer writes about him.

One thing I want to clarify: Broadcasters were not banned from the lounge and dining room in response to this incident. That's an ongoing policy. Broadcasters were reminded of it after the Griffey-Brantley thing. And that policy is pretty standard around baseball from what I understand.

I think fans are fairly split on how heavily Brantley, Marty Brennaman and Thom Brennaman criticize player. I get emails and posts complaining about it from time to time.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a17ee6293-59a2-41f3-8871-5f54456812b4&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Matt700wlw
07-29-2008, 04:44 PM
It may not mean a thing (I'm guessing it doesn't)...but Griffey is not in tonight's lineup. CP is leading off though, which should excite everyone.

Dunn's batting 3rd...

Raisor
07-29-2008, 04:48 PM
Dunn's batting 3rd...

Everyone should start saying goodbye to loved ones, the end of the world is here.

Always Red
07-29-2008, 04:52 PM
Dunn's batting 3rd...

Yeah but he's hamstrung by those OBP's in front of him of .220 and .326.

BRM
07-29-2008, 04:57 PM
Yeah but he's hamstrung by those OBP's in front of him of .220 and .326.

Yeah, but Corey's OBP when batting leadoff is all the way up at .225. Those 19 at-bats in the 8 hole have really drug his overall OBP down.

Always Red
07-29-2008, 04:59 PM
Yeah, but Corey's OBP when batting leadoff is all the way up at .225. Those 19 at-bats in the 8 hole have really drug his overall OBP down.

You're right, I didn't consider that. :D

Watch, CP will go 4-5 now tonight...

Nugget
07-29-2008, 05:48 PM
It may not mean a thing (I'm guessing it doesn't)...but Griffey is not in tonight's lineup. CP is leading off though, which should excite everyone.

Dunn's batting 3rd...

And EE is out of the lineup too - what does that mean...

Matt700wlw
07-29-2008, 05:55 PM
And EE is out of the lineup too - what does that mean...

I'm guessing nothing as well...until proven otherwise, of course :)

GAC
07-29-2008, 06:22 PM
And EE is out of the lineup too - what does that mean...

I'm not much when it comes to math; but if your factor in Patterson's .186 BA, along with his .220 OB%, minus EE's blistering pace in July (.288 BA, .972 OPS), and it looks like I'll watch the Family Guy marathon. :p:

Always Red
07-29-2008, 06:32 PM
I'm not much when it comes to math; but if your factor in Patterson's .186 BA, along with his .220 OB%, minus EE's blistering pace in July (.288 BA, .972 OPS), and it looks like I'll watch the Family Guy marathon. :p:

Well, on the heels of a 4 game losing streak, you really want to get your best hitters out of the lineup. ;)

I see this game (and day) as the white flag of surrender. Dusty has thrown in the towel, and realizes the pennant race for the Reds is over. So, heck, he might as well hit Dunn 3rd tonight, right?

Carry on.

Blitz Dorsey
07-29-2008, 06:36 PM
The truth hurts, Griffey.

OnBaseMachine
07-29-2008, 07:31 PM
CASTELLINI was asked about the Ken Griffey Jr.-Jeff Brantley affair - Brantley’s criticism of Griffey and Griffey’s response with a slash-throat gesture at the broadcast booth and some f-bombs after he hit a home run.

“It will be handled internally,” said Castellini. “It should stay internal.”

Asked if he thought his broadcasters were too critical, he said, “They’re still working for us. Sometimes all of us can get overcritical. I don’t think our five keys guys (broadcasters) are negative and I don’t think you beat writers are too negative - not from what I’ve seen in other citiies.”

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

Blitz Dorsey
07-29-2008, 07:39 PM
These guys walk on eggshells when it comes to Griffey. As soon as someone calls a spade a spade, it's big news. (OK, well only when Junior reacts with a throat-slash gesture when said spade is called.)

mth123
07-29-2008, 09:07 PM
Well, in your other post, you said Jr was an overpaid, declining star that was a drag on the team (basically). So, why would anyone want Jr?

Jr also has teammates that are friends. That may be why he wants to stick around. I wouldn't be too keen on moving to a new city for 2 months and then have to find another job.. In other words, I believe most players dislke being traded midseason. It's a huge pain (I imagine) to be called into the office and be told you have to move. Sure, it's part of the business and the players accept it, but I doubt anyone really likes it.

Because in the AL as a DH he wouldn't be the awful statue standing in RF tearing his pitching staff to shreds by playing balls on the bounce that nearly every other player in baseball would catch routinely. If you can't figure out why Griffey is such a drag on the team, look at this pitching staff that has hit the wall at the all star break from having to get thirty some outs every night to compensate for the team's lack of defense. Griffey isn't the only culprit. Dunn's not very good, Ross is the league's worst catcher, Keppinger has no range, EdE can't throw, Votto can't pick it and when Bruce plays CF he's only about average. I'd guess that Griffey has cost this staff more outs than all the others -maybe combined. He plays deeper than the average RF by at least a couple of steps and rarely catches anything that is more than two steps in front of him. That means that balls hit to where a normal RF would be standing in the first place usually fall in front of Griffey for a single. I've never seen anything like it in 40+ years of watching baseball. The Reds just concede a huge portion of the field to the opposing offense willingly by playing JR in RF.

If he goes to a team that needs left handed pop as a DH, he could avoid his huge weakness and be an asset and possibly play in the post season and he wouldn't cost all that much for as third of season. Instead he wants to stay and do what he no longer can while seemingly being bitter at the world about it. Makes sense to me.

For the record, my only mention of his dollars was within the context of his buy-out and that removing that from the 2009 budget would be a decent return for him. Adding that bit of payflex would probably be more valuable than any grade c prospect that Griffey could garner. Basically offering Griffey to a team for nothing except the need to pay the $4 Million buy-out (the Reds should probably even pay the rest of the 08 salary - its 09 that matters now.) No talent required.

Unassisted
07-29-2008, 09:10 PM
CASTELLINI was asked about the Ken Griffey Jr.-Jeff Brantley affair - Brantley’s criticism of Griffey and Griffey’s response with a slash-throat gesture at the broadcast booth and some f-bombs after he hit a home run.

“It will be handled internally,” said Castellini. “It should stay internal.”Wonder if handling this internally is something he plans to do during his visit to Houston?

I appreciate that this Reds owner seems to have a realistic view of the level of criticism that the team receives in the media. I'm not sure that the last one even paid attention to what was being said in the media.

OnBaseMachine
07-30-2008, 06:12 PM
Griffey’s off day not punishment

By Hal McCoy | Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 05:32 PM
What do you think?

For the conspiracy theorists, Ken Griffey Jr. was NOT bench Tuesday as punishment or suspension for his gesture aimed at Jeff Brantley in the broadcast booth.

When the suggestion was made to manager Dusty Baker, he said, “That’s the biggest lie I ever heard.”

Some wondered why Griffey would not be in the lineup against righthander Brian Moehler, against whom he is hitting .297. “He hits this guy tonight (lefthander Wandy Rodriguez) even better,” said Baker.

“It’s like the day he dropped a fly ball in right field and was on the bench the next day,” said Baker. “Dropping the fly ball had nothing to do with it. His days off are planned in advance.”

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/