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OnBaseMachine
07-27-2008, 05:17 PM
The Rangers activated Gerald Laird off the disabled list on Saturday after he missed a month because of a pulled hamstring muscle. He made his first start on Sunday and continues to draw interest from both the Reds and the Yankees. The Rangers want top young pitching prospects in return and that's keeping any deal from getting done right now.

http://trades.mlblogs.com/

mth123
07-27-2008, 05:19 PM
Laird would be an upgrade, but if its a top young pitcher, I'd want Teagarden. A guy like Travis Wood for Laird would be ok.

OnBaseMachine
07-27-2008, 05:21 PM
I prefer Teagarden but I'd settle for Laird.

Matt700wlw
07-27-2008, 05:22 PM
Salty. Doable?

RedsManRick
07-27-2008, 05:24 PM
I don't understand this at all. The grass is greener on the other side, I guess.

Gerald Laird, 28: 1064 AB, .257/.308/.387
Dave Ross, 31: 1095 AB, .226/.312/.443

Well, I guess he hits for a higher batting average. That should make some people happy, even if he's not actually an upgrade. Reds baseball -- gotta love it.

Ron Madden
07-27-2008, 05:26 PM
I prefer Teagarden but I'd settle for Laird.

Eighther one of Teagarden or Laird would be a huge improvement to what we've got.

Neighther one of our catchers is very good behind the plate.

mth123
07-27-2008, 05:26 PM
I don't understand this at all. The grass is greener on the other side, I guess.

Gerald Laird, 28: 1064 AB, .257/.308/.387
Dave Ross, 31: 1095 AB, .226/.312/.443

Well, I guess he hits for a higher batting average. That should make some people happy, even if he's not actually an upgrade. Reds baseball -- gotta love it.

Laird can actually catch the ball. Ross not so much. Since the position is called Catcher, that's important.

Sorry for the snark. I like your posts, but can't wait for Ross to be out from behind the plate in Cincy.

IslandRed
07-27-2008, 05:29 PM
Laird can actually catch the ball. Ross not so much. Since the position is called Catcher, that's important.

Without getting into the specifics of Laird's defense versus Ross', because I don't know enough about Laird to have an educated opinion, I agree in principle. Catcher is not a spot where I just wave my hand and say "play whoever hits better."

Spitball
07-27-2008, 05:38 PM
Without getting into the specifics of Laird's defense versus Ross', because I don't know enough about Laird to have an educated opinion, I agree in principle. Catcher is not a spot where I just wave my hand and say "play whoever hits better."

Please, please don't bring Laird to town to be the starting catcher. I watch a lot of Ranger games and truly believe he is only marginally better than Ross. Both are basically nice back ups but not the kind you want catching 130 games a year.

Bringing in Laird would be a lateral move.

mth123
07-27-2008, 05:41 PM
Please, please don't bring Laird to town to be the starting catcher. I watch a lot of Ranger games and truly believe he is only marginally better than Ross. Both are basically nice back ups but not the kind you want catching 130 games a year.

Bringing in Laird would be a lateral move.

Sounds like you've seen him more than me, so I'll stand corrected. Its hard to swallow though, IMO anybody has to be better than Ross back there.

fearofpopvol1
07-27-2008, 05:45 PM
Please, please don't bring Laird to town to be the starting catcher. I watch a lot of Ranger games and truly believe he is only marginally better than Ross. Both are basically nice back ups but not the kind you want catching 130 games a year.

Bringing in Laird would be a lateral move.

I agree with this. He's an upgrade over Ross, but it's not substantial. He's certainly not worth giving up a top pitching prospect for.

SirFelixCat
07-27-2008, 05:49 PM
So who, of the 3 catchers in Texas, would be the realistic upgrade for the Reds?

RedsManRick
07-27-2008, 05:49 PM
Laird can actually catch the ball. Ross not so much. Since the position is called Catcher, that's important.

Sorry for the snark. I like your posts, but can't wait for Ross to be out from behind the plate in Cincy.

I agree, Ross is a pretty poor receiver, but at the end of the day, overall production and the overall level of talent in the organization is what I care about.

If all you want is a guy who can catch the ball, I don't necessarily disagree with that approach. But we've got a few of those in the minor leagues. There's no need to give up talent in a trade for a catch-and-throw catcher.

Release Javy, call up Hannigan, Tatum or whoever our best defensive catcher is these days. If I trade talent away, I would want to actually fix a hole in the team, not merely shift the problem from defense to offense.

membengal
07-27-2008, 05:51 PM
Given the catcher stable in Texas of Salty, Teagarden, Max Ramirez and Laird, the one that I would not really want is Laird. I hope the Reds set their sights higher. Teagarden really ought to be available.

jojo
07-27-2008, 05:55 PM
I don't understand this at all. The grass is greener on the other side, I guess.

Gerald Laird, 28: 1064 AB, .257/.308/.387
Dave Ross, 31: 1095 AB, .226/.312/.443

Well, I guess he hits for a higher batting average. That should make some people happy, even if he's not actually an upgrade. Reds baseball -- gotta love it.

He's different. And different is better. Right?

mth123
07-27-2008, 05:55 PM
If all you want is a guy who can catch the ball, we've got a few of those in the minor leagues. There's no need to give up pitching talent in a trade for a catch-and-throw catcher.

I'm ready for that to happen. Ross is dreadful.

OnBaseMachine
07-27-2008, 05:57 PM
So who, of the 3 catchers in Texas, would be the realistic upgrade for the Reds?

Max Ramirez projects as an offensive minded catcher with 25-30 homerun power but his defense isn't great. Taylor Teagarden is considered a Gold Glove caliber defender and projects as an average to maybe slightly above average hitter. Salty has a nice bat but I don't think his defense is considered to be all that great. Laird is a solid defender but is the oldest of the bunch at 28. Teagarden is the guy I like the most...I'd trade Homer + Jukich for him or maybe even Daryl Thompson straight up.

SirFelixCat
07-27-2008, 06:02 PM
Teagarden, based on what I'm reading, is the guy they should be targeting then....

RedsManRick
07-27-2008, 06:03 PM
I'm ready for that to happen. Ross is dreadful.

To what end? So we can complain about something else while still losing 85 games?

We need to patch holes, not shuffle deck chairs.

Ross isn't the answer; But neither is Gerald Laird.

mth123
07-27-2008, 06:11 PM
I think a better catcher is the place to start when it comes to upgrading the defense. I know there aren't range factors and other stats to go on, but this team needs to improve defensively. Losing the bats of the guys behind the plate will be no big loss, so it should be a place that can be upgraded without hurting the offense much.

If it saves a couple of Million bucks for use elsewhere, that's a nice bonus.

Patrick Bateman
07-27-2008, 06:13 PM
I'm partial to a Bailey-Salty deal. I think it makes a lot of sense on both sides of the equation. Admidettly his defense is shaky, but I think in time it will be adequate. I am really high on his bat, and that should well make up for his possible defensive shortcomings. Teagarden obviously is better defensively, but I seriously question whether his bat can be anything better than back-up. Salty is the guy I'm targeting. His bat is ready, he's 23, with lots of room for growth.

mth123
07-27-2008, 06:24 PM
I'm partial to a Bailey-Salty deal. I think it makes a lot of sense on both sides of the equation. Admidettly his defense is shaky, but I think in time it will be adequate. I am really high on his bat, and that should well make up for his possible defensive shortcomings. Teagarden obviously is better defensively, but I seriously question whether his bat can be anything better than back-up. Salty is the guy I'm targeting. His bat is ready, he's 23, with lots of room for growth.

If the Reds let Dunn walk, Salty at 1B and Votto in LF may be an option with a decent defensive catcher.

Patrick Bateman
07-27-2008, 06:27 PM
I think he'll stick at catcher long term. At first base his bat doesn't project to be a huge plus, instead just adequate. IMO, he needs to stick at catcher to be a very valuable commodity.

Matt700wlw
07-27-2008, 06:51 PM
Salty?????

GAC
07-27-2008, 06:55 PM
The Rangers want top young pitching prospects in return and that's keeping any deal from getting done right now.

Well they ain't getting Volquez back! ;)

HokieRed
07-27-2008, 07:57 PM
I'd send them Volquez back for a certain outfielder they have.

missionhockey21
07-27-2008, 07:59 PM
I'd send them Volquez back for a certain outfielder they have.
Ian Kinsler is a middle infielder though. :confused::confused::confused:

HokieRed
07-27-2008, 08:01 PM
They can keep Kinsler, if we can have Josh.

KronoRed
07-27-2008, 08:17 PM
I'll take Volquez over Hamilton, if they throw in Kinsler AND Hamilton we can talk.

OnBaseMachine
07-27-2008, 08:44 PM
I'd send them Volquez back for a certain outfielder they have.

No thanks. I'll take Volquez over an outfielder who is an average player at best away from home.

KoryMac5
07-27-2008, 08:50 PM
Salty's defense is about on caliber with Javy's, teams run on him any chance they get. I would look at the free agent pool to see if there is a catcher coming on the market next year that can handle this young staff. I definitely don't want someone back there that will set their growth back.

nate
07-27-2008, 08:51 PM
I'd send them Volquez back for a certain outfielder they have.

I think Milton Bradley's a FA after this season.

OnBaseMachine
07-27-2008, 08:54 PM
I think Milton Bradley's a FA after this season.

What's funny is Josh Hamilton gets all the press but he hasn't even been the best outfielder on that team - that honor belongs to Milton Bradley and it's not even close. Bradley has an OPS over .100 points higher than Josh Hamilton and may be the front runner for MVP right now IMO.

Patrick Bateman
07-27-2008, 08:58 PM
No thanks. I'll take Volquez over an outfielder who is an average player at best away from home.

Hamilton is a considerably better player than that. Is he as gooas as the home version? No, but the road stats are just as misleading. His OPS+ is right around Adam Dunn, and I think that's a pretty good ballpark for where he is right now. That's pretty good production out of CF.

That said, I feel more comfortable with Volquez for a few reasons. Firstly, Hamilton's history makes it difficult to predict how long his shelf life will be. He could crash and burn a lot earlier than his age suggests. And secondly, I think he's a long term right fielder, not centre fielder. If we plan on keeping Dunn, and I hope that we do, Hamilton is not a fabulous fit for the Reds with Bruce entrenched in right for the next decade +. I know for sure that a pitcher of Volquez' magnitude will always be a great fit.

At face value, we're still talking about two very good players, and I don't see any evidence suggesting one player has been anything but marginally more valuable than the other. It's a pretty close race in total value IMO.

Raisor
07-27-2008, 08:58 PM
What's funny is Josh Hamilton gets all the press but he hasn't even been the best outfielder on that team - that honor belongs to Milton Bradley and it's not even close. Bradley has an OPS over .100 points higher than Josh Hamilton and may be the front runner for MVP right now IMO.

Bradley's only played 18 games in the OF this year, which means he won't win the MVP (fair or unfairly)

edabbs44
07-27-2008, 09:04 PM
I can't fathom Cincy "buying" anyone right now. Buy one of the younger catchers, if anyone.

corkedbat
07-27-2008, 09:11 PM
I'd do Bailey for Ramierez

mbgrayson
07-28-2008, 12:12 AM
From the Rangers MLB.COM site (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080725&content_id=3195986&vkey=news_tex&fext=.jsp&c_id=tex&partnerId=rss_tex):


The Reds also covet Laird, but aren't willing to give up their top young Minor League pitchers. At least 20 teams have asked about at least one of the four Rangers catchers.

Jpup
07-28-2008, 12:15 AM
Teagarden is the prize, but Laird is a good 2nd choice.

OnBaseMachine
07-28-2008, 12:19 AM
I found this on a Rangers blog:


Today's proposal: Would you offer Gerald Laird or Jarrod Saltalamacchia (their choice) and Omar Poveda to Cincinnati for Homer Bailey?

Does this make any sense? Read on to find out ...

Why it might make some sense: Think of this as a duplication of the Josh Hamilton-Edinson Volquez deal, but with the teams having different needs. The Reds believe they can contend in 2009 and their farm system entered the year one of the few ranked higher than the Rangers, but catching is a weakness. Though Cincinnati spent is No. 1 on C Devin Mesoraco in 2007, he's at low Class A and high school-drafted catchers usually take a significant amount of time to develop. The Reds are using a journeyman duo of Paul Bako and David Ross there right now and they have checked in on Laird. Bailey was recently called back to the majors, but, after three years atop the Reds' organization ranking, he hasn't lived up to expectations. Laird would be under control for two more years; Salty for even longer than that. The Rangers have depth at catcher and could afford to trade either one. The Rangers absolutely must have pitching if they hope to contend next year. Bailey spent three years atop the Reds' prospect rankings, but he hasn't lived up to expectations. He's pitched better in two starts since being recalled from the minors, but is still 0-3 with a 6.29 ERA and he's fallen behind Edinson Volquez and Johnny Cueto in the Reds' pecking order.

Why it might not: Bailey is 22 and has been projected as a potential No. 1 starter for the last three seasons. Though he's 4-5 with a 5.94 ERA in 14 major league starts (including last year), he is merely a pup. If he develops next year and Cincinnati has a young starting trio of Volquez, Cueto and Bailey to anchor their rotation, along with the veteran Aaron Harang, they might just have the best rotation in the NL. They could afford to put Johnny Bench back there (and he'll be 61 next season) and still contend.

A win-win trade? Something that needs a bit of tweaking? Am I abso-flippin'-lutely nuts? You are on the clock.

Reading some of the Rangers' fans comments, they would trade Salty and a decent pitching prospect in Poveda for Homer in a heartbeat. I would too. I still like Homer but I'd deal him for Salty and Poveda and not look back. This deal would give us a good young catcher and a raw 20-year old power arm.

Jpup
07-28-2008, 12:22 AM
I found this on a Rangers blog:



Reading some of the Rangers' fans comments, they would trade Salty and a decent pitching prospect in Poveda for Homer in a heartbeat. I would too. I still like Homer but I'd deal him for Salty and Poveda and not look back. This deal would give us a good young catcher and a raw 20-year old power arm.

except Salty can't catch. right?

OnBaseMachine
07-28-2008, 12:29 AM
except Salty can't catch. right?

I went back and looked at his scouting report on Baseball America from 2006 and it says his defense was considered suspect coming out of high school but he's worked hard on his defense and it's gotten better. It also says he has a strong arm and quick release, which enabled him to thrown out 36% of the runners in 2006. It does say he still needs some work on his footwork. With time he can probably develop into an average to slightly above average catcher with a good stick.

mbgrayson
07-28-2008, 12:35 AM
From Baseball Prospectus:

If there's something goofy, it's having to call up Teagarden already because of Jarrod Saltalamacchia's unhappy combination of a bum groin and an infection that laid him out over the break. Max Ramirez is up as well, so the Rangers have all three of their premium catching prospects up at once, with veteran Gerald Laird unavailable to provide the veteran insurance he's supposed to represent because he's still out with a sore hamstring. It makes for an interesting situation in which all of them will have had some exposure this season, and perhaps generate that much more freedom of action for Jon Daniels to entertain offers for any one of them, and that on top of the potential to swap out Laird's last two years of arbitration eligibility while those aren't especially expensive, potentially raising his value to a needy contender.

RedlegJake
07-28-2008, 09:02 AM
I'd rather the Reds call up Hanigan than acquire Laird. Trading for marginal upgrades won't help this team unless the acquisition is coupled with another trade sending Ross out for a part that can actually be of use. Laird/Hanigan would be a little better defensively and offensively than Ross/Bako. If Ross brought someone useful - even a role player - from the Fish, then Laird could make sense depending on which young pitcher he cost us. I'd rather spend more and snag Ramirez, though.

corkedbat
07-28-2008, 09:27 AM
I'd rather the Reds call up Hanigan than acquire Laird. Trading for marginal upgrades won't help this team unless the acquisition is coupled with another trade sending Ross out for a part that can actually be of use. Laird/Hanigan would be a little better defensively and offensively than Ross/Bako. If Ross brought someone useful - even a role player - from the Fish, then Laird could make sense depending on which young pitcher he cost us. I'd rather spend more and snag Ramirez, though.

I'd want Teagarden or Ramierez for Homer

RedlegJake
07-28-2008, 10:26 AM
I'd want Teagarden or Ramierez for Homer

Absolutely. Laird would only get an A ball pitcher, imo, and he wouldn't be named Lotzkar.

OnBaseMachine
07-28-2008, 11:49 AM
Rosenthal talked to one club official who finds a 50% chance of Gerald Laird or Jarrod Saltalamacchia being traded before the deadline. The Rangers want young pitching.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Come on Walt, offer up Homer Bailey and a lesser prospect for Salty. That would take care of the catching situation for the next five years.

Raisor
07-28-2008, 11:51 AM
Rosenthal talked to one club official who finds a 50% chance of Gerald Laird or Jarrod Saltalamacchia being traded before the deadline. The Rangers want young pitching.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Come on Walt, offer up Homer Bailey and a lesser prospect for Salty. That would take care of the catching situation for the next five years.

yep, I'd do that too.

HokieRed
07-28-2008, 12:17 PM
Raisor,
I'd be very surprised if WJ hasn't made precisely that offer. Problem is getting the Rangers to believe Homer is worth it.

Falls City Beer
07-28-2008, 12:18 PM
Salty's a terrible catcher. I wouldn't mind giving them Bailey and Votto for Salty and AA or higher bullpen arm, and play Salty at first base.

OnBaseMachine
07-28-2008, 12:21 PM
Salty's a terrible catcher. I wouldn't mind giving them Bailey and Votto for Salty, and play Salty at first base.

Salty's bat doesn't project as well at first base. And no thanks on trading Votto for him as that would be a step down. I'd trade Homer and a lesser prospect for him but not Votto.

Jpup
07-28-2008, 12:21 PM
Salty's a terrible catcher. I wouldn't mind giving them Bailey and Votto for Salty and AA or higher bullpen arm, and play Salty at first base.

Votto? Votto is better than Salty by himself.

Falls City Beer
07-28-2008, 12:24 PM
Votto? Votto is better than Salty by himself.

I thought he projected better with the bat. Never mind. I have no interest in Salty--just looked at his numbers. Can't catch; can't hit either.

Heck, just send the Rockies a bullpen arm for Torrealba and be done with it. At least we'd have great defense if nothing else.

Johnny Footstool
07-28-2008, 12:32 PM
If Saltalamacchia can catch well enough to stay behind the plate, he'll be one of the best hitting catchers in the NL. He showed good patience in the minors, and his power stroke is developing.

Teagarden is the one to target, but he's still at least two years away from being a productive major leaguer.

VR
07-28-2008, 12:45 PM
I'll take Volquez over an outfielder who is an average player at best away from home.

You'd better take out EV's home splits then too?

Can't hit lefties. Check
Can't play center. Check.
Injury Prone. Check.

and now...
can't hit on the road.

The good thing is that by a year from now it will be, "can't hit loogies when behind in the count in Comiskey Park in May"

:beerme:

OnBaseMachine
07-28-2008, 12:54 PM
You'd better take out EV's home splits then too?

Can't hit lefties. Check
Can't play center. Check.
Injury Prone. Check.

and now...
can't hit on the road.

The good thing is that by a year from now it will be, "can't hit loogies when behind in the count in Comiskey Park in May"

:beerme:

Volquez has pitched well at home and on the road.:D

I'm a big fan of Josh Hamilton, I think he's a remarkable story but I also think he's starting to become a bit overrated. People talk about him like he's the best player in the game...he's not, heck, he's not even the best or even second best player on the Rangers IMO, as that belongs to Ian Kinsler and Milton Bradley. Our own Adam Dunn is OPSing 25 points higher than Hamilton despite not having as many good hitters around him as Hamilton does. Josh is an awesome player but I'd take Volquez over Hamilton any day of the week.

RedsManRick
07-28-2008, 01:11 PM
Hamilton has been very good, no doubt. But normalize his RBI opportunities and he's just another very good player. If he had 75 RBI, nobody would be talking him up as the best player in the league. Pat Burrell has easily been a better player than Hamilton, and he didn't even make the all-star team. Ian Kinsler has been more productive than Hamilton, as has Milton Bradley, when he's played. PA for PA, Hamilton is the 3rd best batter on his own team -- and yet Hamilton is being called the front runner for MVP.

It's ironic, but for all the complaining conventional types do about stat-heads ruining the game, the inane focus on "real stats" like batting average and RBI really detracts from our ability to appreciate the contributions of players in proper proportion.

osuceltic
07-28-2008, 01:17 PM
Hamilton has been very good, no doubt. But normalize his RBI opportunities and he's just another very good player. If he had 75 RBI, nobody would be talking him up as the best player in the league. Pat Burrell has easily been a better player than Hamilton, and he didn't even make the all-star team. Ian Kinsler has been more productive than Hamilton, as has Milton Bradley, when he's played. PA for PA, Hamilton is the 3rd best batter on his own team -- and yet Hamilton is being called the front runner for MVP.

It's ironic, but for all the complaining conventional types do about stat-heads ruining the game, the inane focus on "real stats" like batting average and RBI really detracts from our ability to appreciate the contributions of players in proper proportion.

How about the inane focus on defense? Because if you can watch Pat Burrell and Josh Hamilton play the game and conclude Burrell is the better player, then I'd say you're watching a different game. Better hitter? Maybe, although it's arguable. More statistically favorable offensive player? Burrell's got him there.

jojo
07-28-2008, 01:21 PM
Hamilton has been very good, no doubt. But normalize his RBI opportunities and he's just another very good player. If he had 75 RBI, nobody would be talking him up as the best player in the league. Pat Burrell has easily been a better player than Hamilton, and he didn't even make the all-star team. Ian Kinsler has been more productive than Hamilton, as has Milton Bradley, when he's played. PA for PA, Hamilton is the 3rd best batter on his own team -- and yet Hamilton is being called the front runner for MVP.

It's ironic, but for all the complaining conventional types do about stat-heads ruining the game, the inane focus on "real stats" like batting average and RBI really detracts from our ability to appreciate the contributions of players in proper proportion.

Perhaps a compelling case can be made for Burrell having a better season at the plate thus far but it's difficult to argue that Burrell is a better player IMHO.

M2
07-28-2008, 01:38 PM
I like Laird and think he'd probably give the Reds a quality primary backstop for the next couple of years (his OB and SLG percentages this season reflect the kind of work he can do, IMO), provided he can stay healthy. That last one is a major concern because he's never healthy for long.

RedsManRick
07-28-2008, 01:41 PM
How about the inane focus on defense? Because if you can watch Pat Burrell and Josh Hamilton play the game and conclude Burrell is the better player, then I'd say you're watching a different game. Better hitter? Maybe, although it's arguable. More statistically favorable offensive player? Burrell's got him there.


Perhaps a compelling case can be made for Burrell having a better season at the plate thus far but it's difficult to argue that Burrell is a better player IMHO.

Fair enough, I should have been more specific. The point still stands in so far as Hamilton's RBI total is garnering him disproportionate attention. And even with defense included, the gap in perception is disproportionate to the gap in reality. I'd still make the case for Kinsler being the overall more productive of the two.

How is Hamilton's CF defense looking? Because if he's a poor CF, good RF that narrows the gap considerably.

Nugget
07-28-2008, 04:17 PM
Too right on the Hamilton thing - I mean Brantly and Brennaman were going on like he was the second coming and it would be a travesty if he wasn't the AL MVP.

On the catching situation it would seem that there is no real difference between what the REDS have now. Also what's going to happen when Laird is acquired - the four headed catching montser?

Spitball
07-28-2008, 04:29 PM
... Problem is getting the Rangers to believe Homer is worth it.

The problem should be getting the Reds to believe Saltalamacchia is worth it. He has also been a big a disappointment.

I prefer Saltalamacchia to Laird, but wouldn't trade Bailey for him. I think he will develop basically into another Eddie Taubensee and not much more. He will put up Eddie T's offensive numbers and throw out about 10% of baserunners attempting to steal. A team could win with him behind the plate for 120 games.

Big Klu
07-28-2008, 05:41 PM
The problem should be getting the Reds to believe Saltalamacchia is worth it. He has also been a big a disappointment.

I prefer Saltalamacchia to Laird, but wouldn't trade Bailey for him. I think he will develop basically into another Eddie Taubensee and not much more. He will put up Eddie T's offensive numbers and throw out about 10% of baserunners attempting to steal. A team could win with him behind the plate for 120 games.

I could live with that, if the backup is a solid defense-first receiver (like Brook Fordyce was for Taubensee). Could somebody more familiar with the farm system than I am tell me if Ryan Hanigan is that kind of player?

SirFelixCat
07-29-2008, 08:08 AM
Bailey for Teagarden?

KronoRed
07-29-2008, 12:06 PM
Bailey for Teagarden?

I hear laughter from Dallas

Chip R
07-29-2008, 12:13 PM
If you look at Walt's history with StL, he has gone after defensive catchers like Matheny and Molina.

flyer85
07-29-2008, 12:16 PM
If you look at Walt's history with StL, he has gone after defensive catchers like Matheny and Molina.
Laird is thought of as a solid defensive catcher ... none of the other three really fill that bill.

Offer some non-prospects for Laird, it might work.

BTW, I'd do Bailey for Laird

OnBaseMachine
07-29-2008, 12:25 PM
Laird is thought of as a solid defensive catcher ... none of the other three really fill that bill.

Offer some non-prospects for Laird, it might work.

BTW, I'd do Bailey for Laird

I believe Teagarden is considered to be a strong defensive catcher.

flyer85
07-29-2008, 12:27 PM
I believe Teagarden is considered to be a strong defensive catcher.stuff I have read is that there are concerns about his arm after the TJ surgery. Seems to me that Laird would be the cheapest to acquire in terms of prospects.

Reds Fanatic
07-29-2008, 03:08 PM
This is from Ken Rosenthal. Marlins are very interested in Laird but the Reds are still on the list but would probably have to give up a young pitcher to get him.


The Marlins are the most aggressive suitor for Rangers catcher Gerald Laird, but add the Brewers to the list of interested clubs, which also includes the Reds and Yankees.
Brewers GM Doug Melvin acquired Laird for the Rangers in 2002, and Laird would be a strong complement to Jason Kendall, who needs to start only 16 more games to guarantee his vesting option for next season.

The Rangers are seeking a young starting pitcher in return for Laird, and also fielding calls on their other catcher, Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

The Marlins, according to the Ft. Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel, are considering three catchers besides Laird: The Giants' Bengie Molina, Orioles' Ramon Hernandez and Pirates' Ryan Doumit.

Matt700wlw
07-29-2008, 03:36 PM
How is Salty at 1B?

Move Votto to the outfield when Dunn and/or Griffey are gone this offseason...


Just thinking out loud....

flyer85
07-29-2008, 03:47 PM
How is Salty at 1B?
not sure how well his bat will play there ... the Reds need a catcher, Walt needs to make it happen.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-29-2008, 03:59 PM
BTW, I'd do Bailey for Laird

As would I.

Kc61
07-29-2008, 05:51 PM
Doesn't Laird have a .697 lifetime OPS?

Always Red
07-29-2008, 06:29 PM
Doesn't Laird have a .697 lifetime OPS?

Why yes, he does.

I have a lot of questions about whether I want Laird as our everyday C. He's 28 years old and really never been a starter until this year- and I think the Rangers are buffing him up to trade him because they know they have Salty and Teagarden in the wings. I'm thinking Jason LaRue. Didn't we just do that, and it didn't work out that well?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lairdge01.shtml

He has below average fielding percentage and range factor, as compared to the rest of the league.

I'd pass.

Patrick Bateman
07-29-2008, 06:47 PM
I'm really not sold on Laird. He's around a .740-.750 OPS type of bat with slightly above average defense. That makes him an okay starting catcher, but considering his service time I don't see him as a long term asset. If he was a few years younger I could get on board with him being a solution to the glaring problem.

As such, I don't have interest in moving Bailey for him. By the time the Reds look to be a contender, Laird will be making some decent coin. That's why I'd prefer Salty, he'll be affordable for awhile, and I think his bat will be pretty special at catcher. He makes sense in the long term aspect, and because of it, dealing a decent chip like Bailey would be palatable. Bailey is still a good chip IMO, and either needs to be kept to patiently develop, or put towards a long term need. Laird does not address that.

OnBaseMachine
07-29-2008, 06:55 PM
I'm really not sold on Laird. He's around a .740-.750 OPS type of bat with slightly above average defense. That makes him an okay starting catcher, but considering his service time I don't see him as a long term asset. If he was a few years younger I could get on board with him being a solution to the glaring problem.

As such, I don't have interest in moving Bailey for him. By the time the Reds look to be a contender, Laird will be making some decent coin. That's why I'd prefer Salty, he'll be affordable for awhile, and I think his bat will be pretty special at catcher. He makes sense in the long term aspect, and because of it, dealing a decent chip like Bailey would be palatable. Bailey is still a good chip IMO, and either needs to be kept to patiently develop, or put towards a long term need. Laird does not address that.

Agreed with it all. I wouldn't mind Laird but I prefer Salty by a mile.

RedlegJake
07-29-2008, 10:02 PM
Salty makes sense to me, Laird does not. If Salty comes up a bit short defensively his bat will make up for it. Laird doesn't have the defense to make up for a lackluster bat. If it's him or Torrealba - no thanks. I'd rather put Hanigan back there and spend the bullets on other needs.

remdog
07-31-2008, 12:55 AM
Forget all of these guys---get me Russell Martin. The Dodgers can have EdE plus two of the following three: Baily, Thompson, Maloney.

Rem

CTA513
07-31-2008, 01:18 AM
Forget all of these guys---get me Russell Martin. The Dodgers can have EdE plus two of the following three: Baily, Thompson, Maloney.

Rem



:beerme:

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-31-2008, 02:06 AM
Forget all of these guys---get me Russell Martin. The Dodgers can have EdE plus two of the following three: Baily, Thompson, Maloney.

Rem

I think the Reds have a better job of acquiring Dodger Stadium and moving it to the banks of the Ohio River than they do prying Russell Martin loose.

WebScorpion
08-01-2008, 09:35 AM
I think the Reds have a better job of acquiring Dodger Stadium and moving it to the banks of the Ohio River than they do prying Russell Martin loose.

I think you've both got that right. Russ Martin is the best catcher in the game today and I'm pretty sure the Dodgers know it. :( Hopefully, someone will say that about Dev Mesoraco and the Reds one day. :thumbup: