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Redlegs
07-28-2008, 11:38 PM
Jeff Brantley's comments, in no way, shape, or form, deserved the reaction of Junior Griffey. Griffey has gone too far. He needs to get out of Cincinnati.

To hear his comments:
http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/CINCINNATI-OH/WLW-AM/080728_1_eddietracy.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=CINCINNATI-OH&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&SITE_ID=1209&STATION_ID=WLW-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=700WLW&PCAST_CAT=News_Talk_Radio&PCAST_TITLE=Ed_Fingers_%26_Tracy_Jones_On_Demand

757690
07-29-2008, 12:18 AM
I am sorry, but how in the world could Junior have heard what Brantley said during the game? And you are trusting something you heard on talk radio?

This message board has already established who Griffey was referring to, and it was a fan in the stands, and no one knew exactly what the fan said.

NeilHamburger
07-29-2008, 12:45 AM
Nope, he was referring to Brantley. Griffey, you can't get out of here fast enough for me.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Ken-Griffey-throws-a-throat-slash-toward-Jeff-Br?urn=mlb,96385

NeilHamburger
07-29-2008, 12:56 AM
And now good for Brantley, he said he's still upset at Jr. and everything isn't better.



Ill will over Griffey gesture lingers

By John Fay
jfay@enquirer.com

HOUSTON – Ken Griffey Jr. and Jeff Brantley spoke.

So is everything good between them?

“No,” Brantley said. “How can it be when someone gives you a death signal from the dugout?”

Said Griffey: “I’m not going to talk about it.”

Griffey made the gesture after hitting a home run in Saturday’s game. He ran his finger along his throat.

“You can’t do that in the NFL or the NBA,” Brantley said.

Griffey was upset about Brantley saying Griffey has been pouting because the Reds have not pick up his option for the next year.

Brantley denied saying that.

“The only thing I said is the ball in right field should have been caught,” Brantley said.

A fly ball fell in front of Griffey in the first inning of Saturday’s game.

Brantley – and all broadcasters – have been asked to stay out of the players lounge and dining room.




I really hope this is the begining of the end for Jr. in Cincy. What a classless act.

kpresidente
07-29-2008, 01:32 AM
Good for Griffey. Brantley deseved it.

757690
07-29-2008, 01:33 AM
Well we know it was aimed at Brantley, but we still don't know why, everyone is just guessing about that part.

And I have looked at that video dozens of times and can not see the throat slash. Not saying it didn't happen, I just would like to know where in the video does it happen. If someone could watch the video below and tell me at what time does Griffey move his hands to his throat, it would be appreciated. thanks

http://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/Griffey_Throws_A_Throat_Slash_Gesture_At_Reds_Anno uncer_Jeff_Brantley/296967

NeilHamburger
07-29-2008, 01:45 AM
Good for Griffey. Brantley deseved it.

Brantley deserves to be given a gang sign for death and to be told to f off because he said a ball hit to griffey needed to be caught? Okay, that makes great sense.

robmadden1
07-29-2008, 01:50 AM
It's at :30.

757690
07-29-2008, 02:05 AM
Its at :30.

thanks, still can't see it, but that is probably because they edited out, cutting to the wide when it happened.


I just wanted to know exactly what Griffey did. Not trying to defend him, as anything he did was wrong, but I want to see if it was a "gang sign" for I am going to kill you, or something less offensive. I just have a hard time believing that Griffey would even know what a gang sign is. He might have just meant, "shut up", or maybe he did the sicilian gesture for F-U, which looks like the throat slashing sign.

757690
07-29-2008, 02:10 AM
Brantley deserves to be given a gang sign for death and to be told to f off because he said a ball hit to griffey needed to be caught? Okay, that makes great sense.

No one knows why Griffey did what he did. Sounds like there was some bad blood between them before Sat. game. Could have easily been something that Brantley said in the clubhouse or dining room, since broadcasters are now banned from there.

goreds2
07-29-2008, 03:27 AM
dining room, since broadcasters are now banned from there.

More chicken wings for the players now. :D

(Trade or let go Griffey Jr. and KEEP Brantley.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-29-2008, 05:34 AM
This organization is going in the crapper. The chippiness between commentators, players, and fans is at all time highs.

Griffey's career is obviously basically over, and the end of one of the worst hard luck stories of sports history. The guy is on pace to hit either 19 or 20 HR's this year, his numbers are completely down in every single aspects, his career is basically over. He might have another year as a DH in him next year, but thats probably it. It's gonig to go down as one of the worst hard luck stories in sports, like I said, and at this point I'm sure he wants it over, along with the fans, and to move on and remember the guy at his best instead of his worst right now. I think everyone needs to just accept what is and honor the guy while he's still playing as one of the best ever.

Brantley should know better than anyone what father time and injuries do to you. His last three years with Philly and Texas in the majors he had ERA's of 5.19, 5.89, and 5.14 and arm problems several of his last few years. I'm sure commentators and fans at that time were all over him as well for his failing arm. Junior doesn't have much time left as a player, so I think its a little mean spirited of him to presume he's dogging it out there.

Redlegs
07-29-2008, 07:43 AM
Brantley should know better than anyone what father time and injuries do to you. His last three years with Philly and Texas in the majors he had ERA's of 5.19, 5.89, and 5.14 and arm problems several of his last few years. I'm sure commentators and fans at that time were all over him as well for his failing arm. Junior doesn't have much time left as a player, so I think its a little mean spirited of him to presume he's dogging it out there.There are times when Griffey fails to hustle. Plenty of times. Anyone who watches the Reds consistantly knows this. We've all seen him hit the ball in the gap or off the wall for a long single. The single part isn't that bad, it's the fact the ball gets fielded, thrown back in, and Griff is just getting to first base. There are times when he gives it his all. That's all the fans want. Heck, Sean Casey was slower than molasses, but he hustled.

Lockdwn11
07-29-2008, 08:13 AM
Did this really need it's own thread?

Griffey012
07-29-2008, 08:16 AM
It is in no way right to slash that sign, but honestly, Brantley is a piece of dog doo doo. I can't stand him during broadcasts because all he seems to know how to do is harp on any players who do anything wrong or even slightly wrong. If Phillips makes 1 bonehead mistake, for 2 innings we have to listen about it. We have to listen about how awful EdE is because he can't make a throw to first. Maybe in a way Griffey was just as fed up about all the ripping his teammates take from this joke in the hometown broadcast booth as he does himself. I was readin in another thread where Brantley has had to apologize to players multiple times this year because of things he has said on the air in the booth. Let's ship him out with the first guy we trade before the deadline if we trade any.

schmidty622
07-29-2008, 08:24 AM
The players make millions of dollars to be good at what they do. If anyone should be unfairly criticized for making stupid mistakes, or worse, not hustling it is MLB baseball players. I couldn't care less if it hurts their feelings. Don't be lazy and you won't get criticized.

Ghosts of 1990
07-29-2008, 08:26 AM
Cant wait to see Griffey go here.

ChatterRed
07-29-2008, 08:49 AM
Wow. I defended Junior on another thread, but didn't realize he gave the throat slash gesture. I've even changed my mind about the F U outburst after his home run. I thought maybe he was mad at a harassing fan, but this is getting ridiculous.

I like when our announcers call it like it is. I was at the game and me and my 3 buddies all thought both of those fly balls should have been caught. I guess Junior was sloat slashing us too? We boo-ed.

What a primadonna baby. Get him out of here.

Brantley did nothing wrong.

This is at the core of what is wrong with this team. This is the same reason Junior continues to bat third. He seems to run the team and can do whatever he wants without repercussion.

Management should suspend him and put someone else in the three hole. The season is a loss. Take back the team now.

JayBruce4HOF
07-29-2008, 09:13 AM
Wow does the sun deck suck or what. :laugh:

Fon Duc Tow
07-29-2008, 09:31 AM
I actually find Brantley's honesty refreshing.

If Griffey didn't have a fork in his back yet somehow batting 3rd, this wouldn't even have happened.

lidspinner
07-29-2008, 10:11 AM
I actually find Brantley's honesty refreshing.

If Griffey didn't have a fork in his back yet somehow batting 3rd, this wouldn't even have happened.


I could not agrree more....Griff is a pro making millions....he needs to act like it. I was friends with dave parker back when Dave was starting to decline and not play as good...He once told me over steak and lobsters and I quote, but not verbatium, but close enough....."if all I have to worry about are people telling me I suck at baseball, then I guess I am going to retire a happy man"......mind you he is telling me this while we are stuffing our face with $50 dollar filet mingion and lobster tail, drinking wine and leaving hundred dollar tips......Dave Parker declined fast and he knew he was declining but at least he knew that he had his family, friends and he knew he had enough money to live on. Point is, he knew to overlook the critics and go home, spend his money and love his family........I sure wish Jr. could do the same.

another quick story.....I remember tony Gwynn doing a speach at a dinner i went to one time about 6 years ago......he talked about how an announcer said he should have took 3 instead of stopping at 2. The padres lost the game by 1 and Tony would have scored on the next guys hit but got stoipped at3rd...nect guy made 3rd out. Tony got mad and made a big fuss about said announcer, Tony talked about how he went 3 years and never spoke with that announcer again. Passed him every day and never said a wrod after 15 years of talking to him everyday. Tons speach was all about why did I lose a freind over him giving an honest opinion of ME, that washis job. He got paid one fourth of what I do to do his job.........

If KGJ would just step back and realize that in 5 years from now, JB's comments will be an afterthough but jr's throat slash wont be, he will also realize why baseball players get looked down upon so much......they are getting paid to play a game

Orodle
07-29-2008, 10:31 AM
Griffey needs to get out of Cincinnati......Brantley has every right to get on Griffey about not sucking in the outfield

redsfanmia
07-29-2008, 11:23 AM
Brantley and the Brenneman boys need to be reeled in IMO, they are way to negative and it seems that something (not quite to this level) pops up every year because they are overly critical. Look we all know this is a bad baseball team I don't need to be reminded at nauseum of that during the radio broadcast.

texasdave
07-29-2008, 11:38 AM
I am kind of curious if Griffey offered a public apology for his boorish behavior. Did anyone see, hear or read of one? The throat-slash doesn't particularly bother me. It was petty to be sure, but the apology should not be for Brantley. If Griffey and Brantley have problems let them work it out in private. Dropping the F-bomb and grabbing the crotch, especially in a public, family-oriented atmosphere, do demand an apology. Not every single fan at the ballpark was riding Griffey. In fact the vast majority were cheering for KG. Yet still a large number of them were obviously exposed to Junior's immature reactions. I suppose if one hasn't been offered up by now one never will be.

Ghosts of 1990
07-29-2008, 12:01 PM
It's funny b/c I've been to hundreds of Reds games over the years. Ken Griffey Jr. is always looking up into the crowd paying way waaay too much attention to who's in the crowd. Especially when he's on deck and when he's in the outfield.

I've been to another game this year when I was in the moon deck in right and Griffey said "F--- you. F--- you. F--- you." To some guy in the RF stands giving Griffey a little razz.

I recall as a kid when he was a great player, him homering and grabbing his infamous crotch at Sparky Anderson when Anderson was the Tigers manager.

Junior is moody, lacks professionalism, and all that is fine when he's producing; it was overlooked for a long time. right or wrong, it was, he's always been this way. A brat. Now, he's an aging declining player who simply doesn't have it anymore and I will be thrilled when he's gone.

I've seen the kind acts. He's given my fiance a baseball. He's given some fans helmets, bats, etc.

He's still a real jerk and unprofessional. Other guys on this team don't even look into the crowd during the game. Just like they shouldn't. But not griffey.

schmidty622
07-29-2008, 01:54 PM
Brantley and the Brenneman boys need to be reeled in IMO, they are way to negative and it seems that something (not quite to this level) pops up every year because they are overly critical. Look we all know this is a bad baseball team I don't need to be reminded at nauseum of that during the radio broadcast.

Don't listen.

I'm sure they don't want to be reminded of it either, yet the team is lazy and makes the same errors game after game. Unfortunately they have to be there to watch it, and they are paid to relay both the play by play and their thoughts about actions on the field. If Marty and Jeff didn't do those things they would be guilty of the same thing the Reds players are, not doing their jobs correctly and just being downright lazy.

44Magnum
07-29-2008, 02:29 PM
How can any adult defend Jr.?
They are obviously clueless as to how this makes them look.:eek:

Jr's Boy
07-29-2008, 03:26 PM
How can any adult defend Jr.?
They are obviously clueless as to how this makes them look.:eek:

How can any adult have such an elitist attitude,using such blanket statements as to others being clueless, due to the hearsay they believe about a player who they don't even know.

Jr's Boy
07-29-2008, 03:26 PM
Jul 29 RF Ken Griffey Jr. has an 11-game hitting streak since the All-Star break and has hit .343 (12-for-35) in that span.

Fon Duc Tow
07-29-2008, 03:58 PM
How can any adult have such an elitist attitude,using such blanket statements as to others being clueless, due to the hearsay they believe about a player who they don't even know.


At least that describes most adults.

Much better than blindly insisting that a washed up ball player can do no wrong. THAT sounds much more childlike to me. ;)

bgwilly31
07-29-2008, 04:06 PM
Brantley and the Brenneman boys need to be reeled in IMO, they are way to negative and it seems that something (not quite to this level) pops up every year because they are overly critical. Look we all know this is a bad baseball team I don't need to be reminded at nauseum of that during the radio broadcast.

Yeah better everything be sugar coated and beating around the bush. :rolleyes:

Better those guys just sit up there with there thumbs in their butts saying what the REDS organization wants them to say to keep the fans coming to the ball game. :rolleyes:

I love announcers that tell it like they see it. :)

markymark69
07-29-2008, 04:12 PM
Just remember guys, the opposite of Brantley and the Brennamen's is George Grande and we all know there have plenty of threads on this site.

You can't have it both ways, unless you're a woman or a democrat.

ChatterRed
07-29-2008, 04:14 PM
Jul 29 RF Ken Griffey Jr. has an 11-game hitting streak since the All-Star break and has hit .343 (12-for-35) in that span.

Woo-hoo. What did he do the other 3 1/2 months? :D ;) :p: :thumbdown :rolleyes: :beerme:

ChatterRed
07-29-2008, 04:15 PM
Just remember guys, the opposite of Brantley and the Brennamen's is George Grande and we all know there have plenty of threads on this site.

You can't have it both ways, unless you're a woman or a democrat.

Hey now! How dare you say that about a woman! ;)

44Magnum
07-29-2008, 05:00 PM
Jr's Boy - your user name says it all?

Jr's Boy
07-29-2008, 07:07 PM
At least that describes most adults.

Much better than blindly insisting that a washed up ball player can do no wrong. THAT sounds much more childlike to me. ;)


Another generalization.I don't make excuses for Griffey's play,he does need to retire.However I have issue's with someone who thinks they know a player's psyche,and use baseless accusations.Did you at all read my reply in my earlier post Fon?

Redlegs
07-29-2008, 07:34 PM
It is in no way right to slash that sign, but honestly, Brantley is a piece of dog doo doo. I can't stand him during broadcasts because all he seems to know how to do is harp on any players who do anything wrong or even slightly wrong. If Phillips makes 1 bonehead mistake, for 2 innings we have to listen about it. We have to listen about how awful EdE is because he can't make a throw to first. Maybe in a way Griffey was just as fed up about all the ripping his teammates take from this joke in the hometown broadcast booth as he does himself. I was readin in another thread where Brantley has had to apologize to players multiple times this year because of things he has said on the air in the booth. Let's ship him out with the first guy we trade before the deadline if we trade any.Awwww, the players got their feelings hurt and the bad man in the booth had to say he's sorry. How sweet.

Look, the things you talked about such as bad throws and bonehead plays is the very reason this team sucks again this year and for several years in a row. Brantley is old school. He calls them like he sees them. I'm fine with that. These guys are not bigger than the game. The quicker they realize it, the better.

Redlegs
07-29-2008, 07:36 PM
I could not agrree more....Griff is a pro making millions....he needs to act like it. I was friends with dave parker back when Dave was starting to decline and not play as good...He once told me over steak and lobsters and I quote, but not verbatium, but close enough....."if all I have to worry about are people telling me I suck at baseball, then I guess I am going to retire a happy man"......mind you he is telling me this while we are stuffing our face with $50 dollar filet mingion and lobster tail, drinking wine and leaving hundred dollar tips......Dave Parker declined fast and he knew he was declining but at least he knew that he had his family, friends and he knew he had enough money to live on. Point is, he knew to overlook the critics and go home, spend his money and love his family........I sure wish Jr. could do the same.

Ken Griffey, Jr. is a first ballot hall of famer, however, he can't hold Parker's jockstrap when it comes to being a team player, a leader, and a winner, IMO.

Redlegs
07-29-2008, 07:37 PM
Did this really need it's own thread?
I often wonder about the person who goes onto a thread only to state how stupid or useless it is. I don't believe I'd bother. But that's me.

kpresidente
07-29-2008, 08:46 PM
The self-righteous really came out for this thread I see. With all the underserved crap that professional athletes take from these super-market tabloid journalists, I think it's refreshing when they take a stand for themselves.

Brantley's a colossal jerk and always has been. Griffey's a stand up guy. He didn't punch him. He made a gesture. More power to him and I wish more players would voice their displeasure with the media. Of course they don't because they're afraid of the backlash.

And so the reactionary, inflammatory blow-hard media rules all and nobody governs them or says anything.

Griffey012
07-29-2008, 09:15 PM
Awwww, the players got their feelings hurt and the bad man in the booth had to say he's sorry. How sweet.

Look, the things you talked about such as bad throws and bonehead plays is the very reason this team sucks again this year and for several years in a row. Brantley is old school. He calls them like he sees them. I'm fine with that. These guys are not bigger than the game. The quicker they realize it, the better.

The problem is Brantley goes on and on and on about the play. It'll be in the next half inning and he is still talking about it. I would like to move on and enjoy listening to the commentary during the rest of the game instead of wanting Brantley to just shut up about the play in the previous inning. I feel like I am listening to a little league coach trying to teach his team the basics of baseball. I already have to watch the boneheaded plays, hearing about them on and on just makes it worse. Any d*mbass who knows the least bit about baseball can point out and go on and on about the boneheaded plays we continue to make, I'd much rather listen to someone who can tell me something I don't know about the game.

Also, I said the throat slashing was wrong, I said maybe that is why Griffey did it, I have no clue, just threw it out there, wasn't defending it.

Jack Burton
07-30-2008, 01:23 AM
Griffey is finished as a major league ball player and the comments were well deserved. Challenge the comments with your play on the field, not some child like gestures.

Maldez
07-30-2008, 12:37 PM
I don't recall seeing Griffey make the throat-slash move, but I remember clearly Griff turning to the stands and bellowing "F-YOU !!!" to somebody after a HR. Was this the same incident?

bounty37h
07-30-2008, 01:30 PM
Brantley deserves to be given a gang sign for death and to be told to f off because he said a ball hit to griffey needed to be caught? Okay, that makes great sense.

Hahahahah, thanks for the laugh, the "gang sign" for death huh? heheheh. The "gang sign" for death is death man. Brantley needs some time off to man up if he thinks that was a death threat or even threatening at all. Both seem lie babies at this whole thing imo, guess years of losing games makes one lose their sanity too?

Ghosts of 1990
07-30-2008, 01:36 PM
Junior is a punk. How can anyone deny this? I am a Reds fan and I call it like it is. I don't even hate Junior, at all. I grew up worshipping his play. But he is a punk and always has been one.

The Snow Chief
07-30-2008, 05:36 PM
Junior is a punk. How can anyone deny this? I am a Reds fan and I call it like it is. I don't even hate Junior, at all. I grew up worshipping his play. But he is a punk and always has been one.

Agreed

Redeye fly
07-30-2008, 05:41 PM
Ok, I'm trying to stay out of this one, or have been trying to, but some of you don't even realize how over the top you sound. Yeah, the act was wrong, but "Junior is a punk and always has been one? Why, because he chases kids down and tries to run them over with his car, or puts a tracking device on his ex's car like Albert Belle? Maybe it's because he assaults team officials like Shawn Chacon, or Manny Ramirez. I know, it's because he beats his wife, or other women he comes across. No wait... it's the multiple DUI's and arrests on his record. The bar room and night club brawls? The drug and weapons charges? I knew, it's because he drug a security guard through the parking lot while the guy was hanging on the back of his motorcycle.

See this is the thing... Junior's actions were born out of frustation and there's no way any one of us can know the whole story. For all we know Brantley might be the one who needs to go. It's not like it's his first incident this year where he crossed some line of professionalism with a player.

Call Junior's actions childish, call them vulgar, call them whatever. But this is the reason why, as fun as it would be to be that gifted and make that much money to play a game, being a professional athlete, particularly of the superstar variety, can't always be all it's cracked up to be. I'm sure the Junior away from the field is often quite different than the Junior on the field. But the thing is the one thing you can be assured of when you're an athlete the caliber of Ken Griffey Jr., any misstep you make, any indiscretion, is going to be in the national news, and some people are going to blow it out of proportion. I'm not saying this is being blown out of proportion as a matter, but some people's reactions are, to me, a bit over the top, when you get into almost a character assassination of the man. Just like Neil more or less equating Griffey with a gang banger, or Brantley himself saying Jr. gave him the "death sign". Yeah, I'm sure Junior is rounding up people to take Brantley out right now as I type this.:rolleyes:

The action may very well be hard to defend, if not indefensible altogether. It would be nice if there were would an explanation and/or apology from Junior, either publically, privately to Brantley, or both. That being said,this is a man who's had to deal with death threats, racist remarks, threats against and insults toward his family, and whatever else... most often from his "hometown fans". And while he should be expected to uphold a certain level and standard of discretion and professionalism, he also can't be expected to be anything more than (or less than) human. Yeah, he should watch himself at the ballpark when kids are around. But at the same time, why should we come down any harder on him if we can't always meet the same standard ourselves? Because he makes so much money? Is that the perception we really want to create... rich people are just "better" than the rest of us, or should be anyway? Because, as someone said in the other thread... he's "on the job"? Ok, fine. Let's have the first person who can say that they have been a total and complete professional, kind and cordial to everyone at work and every customer, client, patient, whomever, never lost their cool with anyone etc., step forward. I'll then tell you to sit down because there's no way I would believe you- unless maybe you're extremely introverted and never or rarely say anything to anybody, and keep everything inside... and even then it would be hard to believe that you never slipped up in some way with someone... even if it was just one little remark.

I'm not saying Junior should get a complete pass. I'm just saying that some of the over the top witch hunters kind of put me in the mind of the slimy, ambulance chasing paparazzi, or at least the clientele that keep them in business.

Redeye fly
07-30-2008, 05:43 PM
Griffey is finished as a major league ball player and the comments were well deserved. Challenge the comments with your play on the field, not some child like gestures.

What "comments" though? See, that's the thing. Brantley says it's because of one thing, Junior says it's because of something else. So no one really knows what brought this on, except Junior I guess.

That said, I actually do agree with the general statement you just made.

thatcoolguy_22
07-30-2008, 05:47 PM
delete

CWRed
07-30-2008, 08:33 PM
Junior is a punk. How can anyone deny this? I am a Reds fan and I call it like it is. I don't even hate Junior, at all. I grew up worshipping his play. But he is a punk and always has been one.

Usually when people say they "call it like it is" or someone says that about someone else...it just means they blow a lot of hot air or are just plain angry and mean. And usually wrong. Junior is a punk? Um ok.

And if you disagree with this post, I'm just telling it like it is. :cool:

scounts22
08-01-2008, 12:58 PM
The problem is Brantley goes on and on and on about the play. It'll be in the next half inning and he is still talking about it. I would like to move on and enjoy listening to the commentary during the rest of the game instead of wanting Brantley to just shut up about the play in the previous inning. I feel like I am listening to a little league coach trying to teach his team the basics of baseball. I already have to watch the boneheaded plays, hearing about them on and on just makes it worse. Any d*mbass who knows the least bit about baseball can point out and go on and on about the boneheaded plays we continue to make, I'd much rather listen to someone who can tell me something I don't know about the game.

I completely agree. We all know when a player makes a mistake, and, ok, point it out, but move on. He does go on and on about it for innings at a time. I would personally like a happy medium between Grande and Brantley. If there are problems or issues with a player, point them out and discuss them in an objective way. Nobody's perfect. We know they made mistakes, the players know they made a mistake. Move on. He's really hard on the younger players. I've heard him go off on both Votto and Phillips a number of times. I tell ya what...I'd much rather see a bad throw by EE or an honest mistake by any player than watch the lack of hustle by a now former Red.

And, oh yeah, if I hear "Right down broadway" one more time, I'll...oh I don't know what I'll do, but it won't be pretty! :D