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cincrazy
07-30-2008, 01:53 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/07/29/heyman.tradeblog/index.html?eref=T1


Finally, there appears to be some action on Reds slugger Adam Dunn. An NL source says at least two teams are expressing interest in the formerly unwanted star. Dunn is the Major League leader in home runs (over No. 2 Alex Rodriguez) and walks (over Todd Helton) over the past five years. Maybe somebody's finally realizing that.

Take it for what it's worth. Sometimes Heyman is on the money, sometimes he's not. But there may finally be a market developing for Dunn at the last minute.

NJReds
07-30-2008, 01:56 PM
Not a shock now that Teixeira is off the market. I'd guess that Tampa might be one of the teams, and maybe the Mets or Twins.

flyer85
07-30-2008, 01:56 PM
Mets(who just named Tatis the everyday LF), Snakes, Dodgers ... that would be my guess.

BRM
07-30-2008, 02:01 PM
Speaking of Dunn, from Dan Graziano of the Star-Ledger:



PLAYER OF THE DAY
ADAM DUNN, Cincinnati OF
Dunn is the man without a rumor. The Reds would deal him, but none of the teams out there looking for outfield help seem to be interested, and it's one of the more confounding aspects of this year's deadline.

Dunn is 28 years old. He's on track for a fifth straight 40-homer season. His on-base percentage is .386, which would be the highest on the Angels, White Sox, Tigers, Brewers, Marlins and Rays and the second-highest on the Mets.

Negatives include his astronomical strikeout totals and the perception (articulated last month publicly and somewhat embarrassingly by Toronto GM J.P. Ricciardi) that Dunn is a soft, unmotivated player who doesn't come through in the clutch.

But nobody's perfect, and there are a lot of players drawing interest on the market who don't put up 40 home runs and a .380 on-base percentage every year. Why can't Dunn get a look? Wouldn't he look pretty nice in left field at Shea?

cincrazy
07-30-2008, 02:02 PM
Not a shock now that Teixeira is off the market. I'd guess that Tampa might be one of the teams, and maybe the Mets or Twins.

Supposedly the Rays have a "50/50 shot" of acquiring Jason Bay, so I think they're leaning in that direction instead.

flyer85
07-30-2008, 02:06 PM
Supposedly the Rays have a "50/50 shot" of acquiring Jason Bay, so I think they're leaning in that direction instead.there need is for a RH bat more than a LH bat.

RedRoser
07-30-2008, 02:07 PM
I could see Dunn and Weathers being dealt to the Mets.

Raisor
07-30-2008, 02:08 PM
Move along! There is nothing to see here! Dunn has no trade value!

Highlifeman21
07-30-2008, 02:08 PM
If Dunn is traded, it'll give me a great reason to buy another team's jersey...

Raisor
07-30-2008, 02:10 PM
If Dunn is traded, it'll give me a great reason to buy another team's jersey...

It'll be easy if he's traded to the Redsox. I'll just have to add "ox" to everything.

flyer85
07-30-2008, 02:11 PM
Mets make the most sense ... however, they only have one minor leaguer I would want(Martinez).

RedsManRick
07-30-2008, 02:13 PM
The D'Backs are my guess in terms of who's most interested. They were hot and heavy after Teixeira and given their flexibility with Jackson and Tracy, Dunn makes for a reasonable back up plan.

I imagine they'd offer Tracy and a prospect.

flyer85
07-30-2008, 02:14 PM
if they wouldn't trade Jackson for Tex they won't deal him for Dunn. I wouldn't take Tracy. The only guy I would want is Scherzer.

Raisor
07-30-2008, 02:15 PM
if they wouldn't trade Jackson for Tex they won't deal him for Dunn. .

unless they get desperate.

Degenerate39
07-30-2008, 02:16 PM
Note to possible teams Dunn could go to: You'll lose for 8 straight years because he hits 40 homers a year, 100 RBI's, 100 runs, and 100 walks.

Good luck with the lazy guy who would rather fish than take BP.

durl
07-30-2008, 02:23 PM
Who would step up to drive in 100 runs and score 100 runs, as well? Frankly, I like him having no perceived trade value. People talk about inconsistency with this team, but Dunn is probably the most consistent performer at the plate. I don't see the point of trading a .230 hitter that drives in runs while keeping .240 hitters that drive in 20-30 fewer runs a season.

I've reached the conclusion that I'd rather keep Dunn and bring in a couple of players that can hit .290-.300 around him.

flyer85
07-30-2008, 02:27 PM
I've reached the conclusion that I'd rather keep Dunn and bring in a couple of players that can hit .290-.300 around him.
seems to me the Reds have reached the opposite conclusion ... the fact that Castellini had no comment when asked is telling. The fact that he didn't say anything tells me that they are not actively seeking a contract extension at this time.

redsmetz
07-30-2008, 02:30 PM
seems to me the Reds have reached the opposite conclusion ... the fact that Castellini had no comment when asked is telling. The fact that he didn't say anything tells me that they are not actively seeking a contract extension at this time.

I can't reach that conclusion, although I understand your logic. But when has a club ever said, particularly at the trade deadline, we're hot and furious in our negotiations and will reach an agreement. In fact, Castellini reiterated that writers know how he feels about Dunn. Now the could trade him tomorrow and it wouldn't shock me, but I still can't say for certain that they've made a decision that they're not going to attempt to resign him.

flyer85
07-30-2008, 02:32 PM
Now the could trade him tomorrow and it wouldn't shock me, but I still can't say for certain that they've made a decision that they're not going to attempt to resign him.
I think the only way they resign is that Dunn tests the FA market and finds less money available then what he hoped for ... I think the Reds are only interested in a short term deal(3 years) at a discount(40-45M).

rdiersin
07-30-2008, 02:32 PM
seems to me the Reds have reached the opposite conclusion ... the fact that Castellini had no comment when asked is telling. The fact that he didn't say anything tells me that they are not actively seeking a contract extension at this time.

IIRC, Jocketty has said he doesn't like to do contracts during the season, as it may be a distraction. So, yeah there probably aren't any active negotiations. That doesn't mean that there won't be after the season is over though. I'm not sure what Castellini said means anything.

Spring~Fields
07-30-2008, 02:34 PM
Note to possible teams Dunn could go to: You'll lose for 8 straight years because he hits 40 homers a year, 100 RBI's, 100 runs, and 100 walks.

Good luck with the lazy guy who would rather fish than take BP.

I would like to see what AD could do in a situation of having a Kinsler, Young type hitting ahead of him with a Bradley type batting behind him. Might be surprising just how good Dunn is.

flyer85
07-30-2008, 02:37 PM
IIRC, Jocketty has said he doesn't like to do contracts during the season, as it may be a distraction. So, yeah there probably aren't any active negotiations. That doesn't mean that there won't be after the season is over though. I'm not sure what Castellini said means anything.it may not but he could have said we aren't trading him and we will try to negotiate an extension after the season. No reason not to say it if it is true. The fact that he didn't speaks volumes to me.

LvJ
07-30-2008, 02:43 PM
I traded him for Willingham and Miller in OOTP. http://smiliesftw.com/x/elmo.gif

Spring~Fields
07-30-2008, 02:44 PM
IIRC, Jocketty has said he doesn't like to do contracts during the season, as it may be a distraction. So, yeah there probably aren't any active negotiations. That doesn't mean that there won't be after the season is over though. I'm not sure what Castellini said means anything.

If it waits until the off season I think that Adam Dunn may reconsider his options as he receives offers from other teams and organizations. I believe that his agent will point him in the direction where he can receive the best financial offer coupled with the best chance of being on a winning team.

Castellini's comments are like those of Baker, they are not credible.

Obviously he hedged when asked the question which could readily be infered that he has no intention of signing Dunn, because of money. Castellini could have easily said, that we are going to do everything possible to try and resign AD, but he chose not to say that during this interview.

reds44
07-30-2008, 03:05 PM
Seeing Adam Dunn in a different jersey would be wrong.

redsmetz
07-30-2008, 03:06 PM
IIRC, Jocketty has said he doesn't like to do contracts during the season, as it may be a distraction. So, yeah there probably aren't any active negotiations. That doesn't mean that there won't be after the season is over though. I'm not sure what Castellini said means anything.

I knew he'd said that, but then I wondered about the extensions of MacGwire and Rolen. He signed extensions with both of them in the September after they were acquired (1998 and 2002 respectively). So, when push comes to shove and he needs to get it done, he's shown he can negotiate in season.

OnBaseMachine
07-30-2008, 03:20 PM
Looks like I'll be leaving for Florida in a couple hours to watch by brother play in the Senior League baseball tournament, so last night's game could be the last game I ever seen Dunn play in a Reds uniform. I sure hope not but it's entirely possible. It's pretty sad if you ask me. He's been a favorite of mine since I started following him in the minor leagues in 2001. He's always been under appreciated in Cincy and I'll never understand that. My hope is unless the Reds are knocked over with an offer for him, they re-sign him and watch him become the greatest homerun hitter in Reds history and eventually maybe among the best in baseball history.

flyer85
07-30-2008, 03:31 PM
so last night's game could be the last game I ever seen Dunn play in a Reds uniform. I would be very surprised if the is traded by the deadline.

Chip R
07-30-2008, 03:34 PM
I would be very surprised if the is traded by the deadline.


What about after the deadline?

flyer85
07-30-2008, 03:38 PM
What about after the deadline?
shocked because there is no way he will pass through waivers.

KronoRed
07-30-2008, 03:38 PM
What about after the deadline?

I think he gets grabbed on waivers by anyone near the top of the pile, 2 month rental? oh yeah.

Kc61
07-30-2008, 03:43 PM
I would be very surprised if the is traded by the deadline.


In the sense that the deadline is tomorrow, sure it would be surprising.

In the sense of what the realistic options are, it wouldn't be surprising at all.

If the Reds don't trade Dunn now they can't later. This is time to fish or cut bait. A decision to hold him past tomorrow means they either have to sign him or get draft choices in return.

I would assume that Reds are furiously trying to determine the market. If offered a high caliber prospect who is close to major league ready, I'd guess that they will pull the trigger.

Spring~Fields
07-30-2008, 03:43 PM
What about after the deadline?

Serious question:

What would happen on a hypothetical like that,

Say a Dunn is up on waivers in an attempt to trade him, other teams make a claim, do they have to match the offer of the other team that he would be a target to trade him to?

OldXOhio
07-30-2008, 03:46 PM
In the sense that the deadline is tomorrow, sure it would be surprising.

In the sense of what the realistic options are, it wouldn't be surprising at all.

If the Reds don't trade Dunn now they can't later. This is time to fish or cut bait.

I would assume that they are furiously trying to determine the market. If offered a high caliber prospect who is close to major league ready, I'd guess that they will pull the trigger.

I'm with ya - something about this one concerns me if for no other reason than it's been WJ who's said he's been attempting to make the rounds with various teams. I fully expect someone to offer a counter that at least forces Walt to think long and hard.

PuffyPig
07-30-2008, 03:47 PM
Serious question:

What would happen on a hypothetical like that,

Say a Dunn is up on waivers in an attempt to trade him, other teams make a claim, do they have to match the offer of the other team that he would be a target to trade him to?

Serious answer (but another question).

How can anyone ever match an offer? Both teams couldn't make identical offers, as (presumably) the same player can't play on two (or more) teams.

But if a player gets claimed on revocable waivers, the claiming team can try and negotiate a trade or can simply say they want him for nothing (other than his contract).

Chip R
07-30-2008, 03:49 PM
The way it works is that the worst team in the NL would get first crack at him. Gee, I wonder if JimBo would claim him? :D

Kc61
07-30-2008, 03:52 PM
Serious question:

What would happen on a hypothetical like that,

Say a Dunn is up on waivers in an attempt to trade him, other teams make a claim, do they have to match the offer of the other team that he would be a target to trade him to?

I don't think it works that way.

Dunn goes on revocable waivers. A team claims him. Reds say to that team -- give us X players in a trade or we will pull AD back off waivers. The claiming team either negotiates a trade or Dunn comes back.

In other words, the only team that would be involved in trade talks is the one that claims Dunn. Nobody else would be bidding for him at that point.

Spring~Fields
07-30-2008, 03:52 PM
Serious answer (but another question).

How can anyone ever match an offer? Both teams couldn't make identical offers, as (presumably) the same player can't play on two (or more) teams.

But if a player gets claimed on revocable waivers, the claiming team can try and negotiate a trade or can simply say they want him for nothing (other than his contract).

Okay, I did not know, as I don't recall having seen such a situation like that.
I was wondering how something like that might play out.

Spring~Fields
07-30-2008, 03:54 PM
I don't think it works that way.

Dunn goes on revocable waivers. A team claims him. Reds say to that team -- give us X players in a trade or we will pull AD back off waivers. The claiming team either negotiates a trade or Dunn comes back.

In other words, the only team that would be involved in trade talks is the one that claims Dunn. Nobody else would be bidding for him at that point.

That could be interesting if it worked to get more for him, somehow.

hebroncougar
07-30-2008, 03:54 PM
I don't think it works that way.

Dunn goes on revocable waivers. A team claims him. Reds say to that team -- give us X players in a trade or we will pull AD back off waivers. The claiming team either negotiates a trade or Dunn comes back.

In other words, the only team that would be involved in trade talks is the one that claims Dunn. Nobody else would be bidding for him at that point.

AND the players the Reds want have to clear waivers as well.

Kc61
07-30-2008, 04:04 PM
AND the players the Reds want have to clear waivers as well.

Good point.

This next 24 hours is really interesting. The more I think about it the more I would guess that somehow Dunn will be traded. It's hard even to say after all these years of having him as a Red. But it just seems logical to me.

If the team intended to sign Dunn long term IMO it would have happened already (or will happen today or tomorrow). If Reds want to sign him, why sign him in the off-season as a free agent, bidding against other teams? A contract would have been signed by now if both parties wanted to continue with AD as a Red.

Keep him for now and offer arbitration? A very unsatisfying idea IMO. It then becomes Dunn's decision whether to stay a Red by accepting or rejecting arbitration. That's not a good way to plan for the future. And if he goes, you get draft picks, which can be good except high picks cost a lot and are years away from helping.

So -- unless the Reds are secretly negotiating a LTC with Dunn right now -- my guess is he will be traded. It just seems logical.

Spring~Fields
07-30-2008, 04:12 PM
AND the players the Reds want have to clear waivers as well.

Oh, scratch that thought then.

M2
07-30-2008, 04:18 PM
Speaking of Dunn, from Dan Graziano of the Star-Ledger:

The messed up thing it that articles like that, which basically shame teams for not pursuing a player with Dunn's rather obvious talents, are probably what it takes to get teams interested.

The game is so polluted with herd mentality. It's like watching high schoolers fumble through the dating ritual. Oh, it's now all right to like that person? Well let's all beat a path in that direction!

princeton
07-30-2008, 04:26 PM
Keep him for now and offer arbitration? A very unsatisfying idea IMO. It then becomes Dunn's decision whether to stay a Red by accepting or rejecting arbitration.

unless his agent sniffs collusion/deflation, there's zero chance that Dunn accepts arbitration.

he has earned the security of a multi-year deal.

flyer85
07-30-2008, 04:27 PM
unless his agent sniffs collusion/deflation, there's zero chance that Dunn accepts arbitration.

he has earned the security of a multi-year deal.if dunn signs before early December the arbitration thing becomes moot.

Nugget
07-30-2008, 04:29 PM
Dunn has obvious talents but if you look at the guys traded and the return received Dunn is no where near the value that people ascribe to him - either at the upper or lower end.

While Dunn is arguably a better hitter than Tex he plays at a lest valuable position for his hitting ability. That is as an outfielder you are expected to hit a little better than a first baseman. Secondly, it appears that teams willing to trade position players (other than the Yankees) are more likely to want some chance of retaining the player rather than just being a rental. So the trade market is a little different that a team willing to just go out and get some help. The D'Backs were not willing to let Conor Jackson go for Tex it is unlikely that they'll let him go for Dunn.

flyer85
07-30-2008, 04:33 PM
That is as an outfielder you are expected to hit a little better than a first baseman.1B is the most productive offensive position in baseball most every year.

Raisor
07-30-2008, 04:33 PM
. That is as an outfielder you are expected to hit a little better than a first baseman. .

Actually, you have that backwards.

At least for this season.

LF 342/440
1B 355/454

Kc61
07-30-2008, 04:36 PM
unless his agent sniffs collusion/deflation, there's zero chance that Dunn accepts arbitration.

he has earned the security of a multi-year deal.

Unless there is no market for him outside Cincy, which is doubtful, correct. Dunn would likely decline arbitration and sign elsewhere.

So then (absent a Reds LTC, which I think would have happened already) the two choices are --

A trade by tomorrow.

Two draft choices.

It obviously comes down to what is offered, but it's hard for me to see the Reds taking the draft picks. They don't act like they are building for the long-term future. If offered one major prospect by any team tomorrow, I think the Reds make the deal.

princeton
07-30-2008, 04:40 PM
as an outfielder you are expected to hit a little better than a first baseman.

that's only in Cincinnati, where we love nonsluggers like Dan Driessen, Pete Rose, Todd Benzinger, Hal Morris, and Sean Casey.

PuffyPig
07-30-2008, 05:00 PM
AND the players the Reds want have to clear waivers as well.

And they only have to clear waivers if they are on the 40 man roster I think. Or it may be 25 man roster. But in any event, they can be all just PTBNL, so the return for Dunn wouldn't really matter with respect to clearing waivers. As long as Dunn cleared a trade could be worked out.

Nugget
07-30-2008, 05:16 PM
that's only in Cincinnati, where we love nonsluggers like Dan Driessen, Pete Rose, Todd Benzinger, Hal Morris, and Sean Casey.

I guess what I mean is that as a hitter/slugger - a slugging outfielder is not as prized a commodity as a hitting/slugging 1B - while not a dime a dozen hitting outfielders are expected - 1B are prized.

LoganBuck
07-30-2008, 05:17 PM
Is that still true PuffyPig? Remember when the Reds used Mark Lewis as a PTBNL for David Wells? For some reason I think I remember them not being allowed to do that anymore. Am I correct I looked around on the internet but can't find a link saying that.

Caveat Emperor
07-30-2008, 05:23 PM
I guess what I mean is that as a hitter/slugger - a slugging outfielder is not as prized a commodity as a hitting/slugging 1B - while not a dime a dozen hitting outfielders are expected - 1B are prized.

Lance Berkman, Albert Pujols, Derrek Lee -- half the teams in the NL Central have offensive monsters sitting on first base.

I'd hardly call it rare.

flyer85
07-30-2008, 05:27 PM
Lance Berkman, Albert Pujols, Derrek Lee -- half the teams in the NL Central have offensive monsters sitting on first base.

I'd hardly call it rare.left out Prince Fielder.

OnBaseMachine
07-30-2008, 05:29 PM
Looks like I'll be leaving for Florida in a couple hours to watch by brother play in the Senior League baseball tournament, so last night's game could be the last game I ever seen Dunn play in a Reds uniform.

I decided to not go so tonight could be the last time I see Dunn in a Reds uniform. :D

Raisor
07-30-2008, 05:30 PM
I decided to not go so tonight could be the last time I see Dunn in a Reds uniform. :D

Unless your brother is about to be traded, you're making the right choice.

OnBaseMachine
07-30-2008, 05:39 PM
Unless your brother is about to be traded, you're making the right choice.

:D

Reds Fanatic
07-30-2008, 11:13 PM
The latest on Dunn from Jon Heyman of SI. Apparently the Dbacks are interested and offered Chad Tracy.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/07/29/heyman.tradeblog/index.html?eref=T1


The Diamondbacks made a play for Adam Dunn, offering first baseman Chad Tracy. Another National League team also is said to have called about Dunn, a slugger who's drawn surprisingly little interest. Reds GM Walt Jocketty could also keep Dunn, who's a free agent after the year. All in all, the Reds' sale hasn't exactly been a hit. They also have Ken Griffey Jr, who hasn't scared up one decent rumor, plus reliever David Weathers.

Patrick Bateman
07-30-2008, 11:19 PM
Tracey would be a horrendous retun IMO. His bat isn't very interesting as a corner guy, his defense is suspect, and he's already making money. He really wouldn't be anything but a placeholder.

If Arizona is the target, Sherzer should be the target, and I don't think they'd part with him. Miguel Montero would be a sensical player to be included too as they are pretty well set with Chris Snyder.

KronoRed
07-30-2008, 11:24 PM
Unless Arizona is hiding another Chad Tracy or he's going to play the part of Royce Clayton that is a laughable trade offer from the snakes.

Wheelhouse
07-31-2008, 12:25 AM
mlbtraderumors.com now says Reds are talking to Tampa on Dunn, but that they are holding out for Jason Bay.

_Sir_Charles_
07-31-2008, 12:26 AM
By Jayson Stark

Wednesday, July 30, 2008
The Reds and Rays talked Wednesday night about a deal that would send Adam Dunn to Tampa Bay. According to a source with knowledge of the discussions, those talks haven't yet moved beyond the conversation stage. But that conversation is expected to resume Thursday morning. Clubs that have spoken with Tampa Bay believe the Rays don't want to rush into anything as long as Jason Bay remains an option. But they now have Dunn on their plate as an intriguing Plan B.

RedsManRick
07-31-2008, 12:29 AM
By Jayson Stark

Wednesday, July 30, 2008
The Reds and Rays talked Wednesday night about a deal that would send Adam Dunn to Tampa Bay. According to a source with knowledge of the discussions, those talks haven't yet moved beyond the conversation stage. But that conversation is expected to resume Thursday morning. Clubs that have spoken with Tampa Bay believe the Rays don't want to rush into anything as long as Jason Bay remains an option. But they now have Dunn on their plate as an intriguing Plan B.

Dunn to Tampa bay makes all kinds of sense for us both. Reid Brignac and an arm would be real nice.

Kc61
07-31-2008, 12:29 AM
By Jayson Stark

Wednesday, July 30, 2008
The Reds and Rays talked Wednesday night about a deal that would send Adam Dunn to Tampa Bay. According to a source with knowledge of the discussions, those talks haven't yet moved beyond the conversation stage. But that conversation is expected to resume Thursday morning. Clubs that have spoken with Tampa Bay believe the Rays don't want to rush into anything as long as Jason Bay remains an option. But they now have Dunn on their plate as an intriguing Plan B.

Rays make sense. Wonder who they would offer?

Falls City Beer
07-31-2008, 12:33 AM
I can't imagine how much cash the Reds are going to have to shell out chasing down offensive production if they trade Dunn. If they think the losing's going to stop with Dunn, wait till they get a dose of without.

johngalt
07-31-2008, 12:36 AM
Any Dunn trade needs to involve a ML-ready outfielder coming back in return who will be able to either step in right away this year or be able to start next year out of Spring Training.

AtomicDumpling
07-31-2008, 12:40 AM
We may find out tonight or tomorrow whether the Reds want to win or whether they want to save money and make a bigger profit for the multi-millionaire owners.

RedLegSuperStar
07-31-2008, 12:44 AM
Bay is going to Boston in the Manny trade

Raisor
07-31-2008, 12:45 AM
Looks like this will be an allnighter for all of us. I pity you people with jobs.

johngalt
07-31-2008, 12:45 AM
Fernando Perez might not be a bad guy to look at to give us a potential leadoff hitter who can cover a lot of ground in center. Also right handed. You could probably do worse than having him and Dickerson platoon out there in center next year.

Kc61
07-31-2008, 12:47 AM
The Rays have a young catcher Jaso. Has had some injuries but can hit. Lefty bat. One of their better prospects apparently, started at AA now at AAA.

kaldaniels
07-31-2008, 12:51 AM
All I can say is that if the Reds trade Dunn...I don't want that saved money to burn a hole in their pocket. Heck, if they have to wait till 2010 to use it wisely, so be it.

Spitball
07-31-2008, 12:52 AM
Bay is going to Boston in the Manny trade

The trade is on the commisioner's desk, but Manny could nix the trade.

Gainesville Red
07-31-2008, 01:19 AM
Any Dunn trade needs to involve a ML-ready outfielder coming back in return who will be able to either step in right away this year.

What? You don't want to watch Corey Patterson every night?

Caveat Emperor
07-31-2008, 01:30 AM
Any Dunn trade needs to involve a ML-ready outfielder coming back in return who will be able to either step in right away this year or be able to start next year out of Spring Training.

If a team has one that is worth Adam Dunn, that player would most likely be playing and they'd have no need for Dunn.

Gainesville Red
07-31-2008, 01:36 AM
people with jobs.

Suckers.

SteelSD
07-31-2008, 01:39 AM
All I can say is that if the Reds trade Dunn...I don't want that saved money to burn a hole in their pocket. Heck, if they have to wait till 2010 to use it wisely, so be it.

Should the Reds trade Dunn, that "saved money" better be burning a hole in the team's pocket because they're entering a potential "window" period where they could potentially compete for the division if they simply re-signed Dunn and added a few pieces. They've graduated enough young pitchers and hitters who've taken lumps this season in order to position themselves as a real threat come 2009. If the Reds position their chess pieces properly, 2009 could just be 1990 all over again.

KronoRed
07-31-2008, 01:40 AM
What about jobs that have you on the computer all the time? ;)

Caveat Emperor
07-31-2008, 01:44 AM
Should the Reds trade Dunn, that "saved money" better be burning a hole in the team's pocket because they're entering a potential "window" period where they could potentially compete for the division if they simply re-signed Dunn and added a few pieces. They've graduated enough young pitchers and hitters who've taken lumps this season in order to position themselves as a real threat come 2009. If the Reds position their chess pieces properly, 2009 could just be 1990 all over again.

Wait, wait, wait...

Are you telling me that we WANT to have the current major league HR leader on the team for a potential 2009 run?

You're talking crazy-speak right there.

kaldaniels
07-31-2008, 01:44 AM
Should the Reds trade Dunn, that "saved money" better be burning a hole in the team's pocket because they're entering a potential "window" period where they could potentially compete for the division if they simply re-signed Dunn and added a few pieces. They've graduated enough young pitchers and hitters who've taken lumps this season in order to position themselves as a real threat come 2009. If the Reds position their chess pieces properly, 2009 could just be 1990 all over again.

Realize I want to keep Dunn. But if has been decided already to part ways...

I don't want to see 15 Million dollars blown this offseason is what I am saying. The window is not only for 2009, but beyond. I agree that keeping Dunn is the best option to compete, but Cast better be ready to open up the wallet a bit.

However, if the team has chose its course with Dunn, I hope there is a decent, targeted plan to spend the saved cash. If 2010 is the year to spend, fine.

With your 1990 comparsion there does that include Dunn, not include Dunn, or both.

RedlegJake
07-31-2008, 01:48 AM
If Dunn is resigned the window starts next year, imo. The correct moves this winter with Dunn in the fold and this team is a contender. If the decision is NOT to sign Dunn then I think the window just moved out at least another year, probably 2 or 3 years.

Caveat Emperor
07-31-2008, 01:49 AM
Incidentally, if Dunn were to be traded to Tampa Bay he would instantly become the AL's leading HR hitter, a top-5 RBI man for the league, and a top-5 OPS player in the league.

Nope. Don't want that around here. Call us when you learn to hustle or lose some weight.

oregonred
07-31-2008, 02:06 AM
Incidentally, if Dunn were to be traded to Tampa Bay he would instantly become the AL's leading HR hitter, a top-5 RBI man for the league, and a top-5 OPS player in the league.

Nope. Don't want that around here. Call us when you learn to hustle or lose some weight.

Dunn's 2004-2008 numbers are amazing for their consistency. 4 of the 5 years Dunn's OBP is between .385-.388 and slg % between .540 and .567. We're looking at 1.6 seasons of .950+ OPS numbers and he plays everyday. I'm torn on the LTC since I think Dunn in 2009-2010 will be fantastic, but the risk of getting stuck in 2012+ with a $15M+ contract could be Griffey part II. If I'm a big market team I'd be working to steal him now, roll the dice and give a 5/75 extension in a heartbeat. Dunn's production is making it look like 5/75 will be the minimum which probably pushes the Reds out of the picture long term.

He's OPS'ing over 1.100 in July so he's certainly done nothing to diminish his value over the past few weeks.

I have to believe someone is going to see the light and offer up the Reds a decent package by the deadline. Tampa seems a good choice and given Yankee/Red Sox/Marlins moves they might jump.

I personally don't get Manny to the Fish other than the Marlins trying to grab some spotlight from the uncaring local So Fla masses (half of whom are rabid Yankees/Red Sox/Mets fans and the other half never will be interested in MLB baseball)

Rojo
07-31-2008, 02:19 AM
Should the Reds trade Dunn, that "saved money" better be burning a hole in the team's pocket because they're entering a potential "window" period where they could potentially compete for the division if they simply re-signed Dunn and added a few pieces.

Agreed. But even with an open wallet, adding those pieces will be hard.

schroomytunes
07-31-2008, 02:24 AM
If we do send Dunn to the Rays then I want these guys in return:

1)Jose Guzman-(AAA) 3rd baseman
2)Jeff Nieman-(AAA) RHSP

this gives us 2 ML ready prospects to have in 2009

Cedric
07-31-2008, 02:29 AM
Dunn's 2004-2008 numbers are amazing for their consistency. 4 of the 5 years Dunn's OBP is between .385-.388 and slg % between .540 and .567. We're looking at 1.6 seasons of .950+ OPS numbers and he plays everyday. I'm torn on the LTC since I think Dunn in 2009-2010 will be fantastic, but the risk of getting stuck in 2012+ with a $15M+ contract could be Griffey part II. If I'm a big market team I'd be working to steal him now, roll the dice and give a 5/75 extension in a heartbeat. Dunn's production is making it look like 5/75 will be the minimum which probably pushes the Reds out of the picture long term.

He's OPS'ing over 1.100 in July so he's certainly done nothing to diminish his value over the past few weeks.

I have to believe someone is going to see the light and offer up the Reds a decent package by the deadline. Tampa seems a good choice and given Yankee/Red Sox/Marlins moves they might jump.

I personally don't get Manny to the Fish other than the Marlins trying to grab some spotlight from the uncaring local So Fla masses (half of whom are rabid Yankees/Red Sox/Mets fans and the other half never will be interested in MLB baseball)

I get the marlins here. They aren't going to win by their rotation, they must keep mashing. Adding the best rh bat of our generation always works for me. The two Ramirez fellas and uggla are a dominant middle of the lineup. You have to remember the rest of the best in the nl are not loaded with amazing pitching. The fish can certainly win it now. IMO

RedsManRick
07-31-2008, 02:36 AM
I get the marlins here. They aren't going to win by their rotation, they must keep mashing. Adding the best rh bat of our generation always works for me. The two Ramirez fellas and uggla are a dominant middle of the lineup. You have to remember the rest of the best in the nl are not loaded with amazing pitching. The fish can certainly win it now. IMO

If the Marlins have proven anything over the past decade, it's that flags fly forever. Sometimes you raise on a high pair.

Rojo
07-31-2008, 02:44 AM
If we do send Dunn to the Rays then I want these guys in return:

1)Jose Guzman-(AAA) 3rd baseman
2)Jeff Nieman-(AAA) RHSP

this gives us 2 ML ready prospects to have in 2009

I like the three mentioned earlier -- Jaso, Perez and Brignac. Multi-dimensional, ML-cuspy, up-the-middle players. If 2009's the window, you trade for need. And we have platoon partners for all of them.

Rojo
07-31-2008, 02:46 AM
I get the marlins here.


I do too. I have the feeling Manny would just mash with a new team.

oregonred
07-31-2008, 02:52 AM
I get the marlins here. They aren't going to win by their rotation, they must keep mashing. Adding the best rh bat of our generation always works for me. The two Ramirez fellas and uggla are a dominant middle of the lineup. You have to remember the rest of the best in the nl are not loaded with amazing pitching. The fish can certainly win it now. IMO

All depends what they give up, but the Fish have a nice window in 2009-2010 with a lot of their better arms starting to finally coming back into the picture (Josh Johnson). Hanley is signed LT so there's no reason 2008 needs to be a go for it season in the least (unlike 1997 and 2003). The Marlins 2008 staff is too inexperienced (no Josh Beckett type to carry a possible post season load).

Note the -31 run differential and third worst ERA in the NL means they aren't going anywhere in 2008 even at 6 over .500. In 2009-2010 the Fish staff will be much improved.

For a two month rental, Manny would be amazing in the middle of the lineup but having Bay for 2009 makes a lot more sense given where the Fish are with their pitching staff. No one in SF has heard of Jason Bay or Adam Dunn so Manny easily wins the popularity contest in the local media and might actually bump attendance -- actual fans in the seats from 5K per game to 6K per game :)

With the Dolphins and Heat taking suckitude to a new level this past season, the once mighty Hurricanes football program really down for the last few years and a mediocre NHL team hiding up in Broward County, one would think the Fish could actually get some local lovin' but it ain't happening. Manny might wake some people up down here...

The Fish are also suddenly back in the WC picture too with the recent drubbing of the Brewers by the Cubs.

AmarilloRed
07-31-2008, 03:07 AM
The latest from Fay:


Adam Dunn's name is suddenly swirling around the rumor mill. The Rays and Diamondbacks have reportedly talked the Reds about him. SI.com reports that the D-Backs offered Chad Tracy. That would help the Reds corner the market on left-handed hitting first basemen.

Walt Jocketty said the Reds had had no discussions about Dunn. That could have changed during the game. But my guess is Dunn's still at Red at 4 p.m. tomorrow -- or actually later today.

Now, if the Rays offer David Price, the lefty who throws 98, that could change. But Rays don't want to give up their top prospects.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a409ab22f-cacf-4e3e-a900-6b2ed9cf3576&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Ron Madden
07-31-2008, 03:50 AM
I hope and pray that Walt & Bob have enough sense to keep and to resign Adam Dunn.

Dunn is like an Ace in the hole any prospects the Reds get in return are just a roll of the dice.

OnBaseMachine
07-31-2008, 03:55 AM
If the Reds are going to deal Dunn then Tampa is the team they need to focus on. A package of SS Reid Brignac and one of RHP Jeremy Hellickson/RHP Jeff Niemann would be a very solid return IMO. Maybe they'll toss Perez in as a throw in. The DBacks are also interesting. A package of C Miguel Montero and RHP Micah Owings would be enticing.

icehole3
07-31-2008, 04:59 AM
Reds would be nuts to not trade Dunn to the Rays

The Baumer
07-31-2008, 05:07 AM
If only Dunn hit 15 less home runs a year, 20 less RBI, and hit 50 points higher. We'd be able to trade him for a decent return!

Ron Madden
07-31-2008, 05:15 AM
Reds would be nuts to not trade Dunn to the Rays

Thats your opinion.

In my opinion it would be nuts for the Reds to let Adam Dunn leave this organization via trade or as a free agent.

;)

Topcat
07-31-2008, 06:28 AM
Thats your opinion.

In my opinion it would be nuts for the Reds to let Adam Dunn leave this organization via trade or as a free agent.

;)

I personally bet Dunn walks at end of year as is. I want guys who are close to now contributing, Sorry to state the obvious but are you kidding me ? It's Ohio and red's at best are a suprise team to make playoffs next season at best. Build a contender then guys will reconsider. Do you no bias wise see that happening next year ? I hope and pray so , but logically speaking it would be a surprise.

icehole3
07-31-2008, 07:39 AM
Thats your opinion.

In my opinion it would be nuts for the Reds to let Adam Dunn leave this organization via trade or as a free agent.

;)


good for you, I strongly disagree

:thumbdown

Reds Fanatic
07-31-2008, 07:54 AM
I still think it is going to a be a major mistake getting rid of Dunn. Interesting stat from Ken Rosenthal's article about Dunn today.


Dunn is one of only 10 hitters since 1947 with a career on-base percentage above .380 and slugging percentage above .520 through his age 28 season.


How Dunn stacks up


Name Season Games OBP SLG
Adam Dunn 2008 1076 .381 .523
Albert Pujols 2008 1185 .423 .619
Vladimir Guerrero 2004 1160 .390 .589
Alex Rodriguez 2004 1430 .381 .574
Barry Bonds 1993 1169 .391 .526
Frank Robinson 1964 1346 .390 .556
Mickey Mantle 1960 1399 .422 .568
Eddie Mathews 1960 1330 .385 .549
Willie Mays 1959 1065 .391 .590
Duke Snider 1955 1135 .383 .552
The list, compiled by STATS LLC, consists of players who appeared in a minimum of 1,000 games, with their ages determined on July 1 of the given season (see table at right).

oneupper
07-31-2008, 08:19 AM
With the Dolphins and Heat taking suckitude to a new level this past season, the once mighty Hurricanes football program really down for the last few years and a mediocre NHL team hiding up in Broward County, one would think the Fish could actually get some local lovin' but it ain't happening. Manny might wake some people up down here...



Nice analysis. As a fellow South Florida resident, I'll mention that there would be an additional incentive for a deal. The new stadium deal has come under some legal fire recently. Some Marlin playoff action could sway some opinions.

http://www.miamiherald.com/460/story/615843.html

Caveat Emperor
07-31-2008, 09:00 AM
Reds would be nuts to not trade Dunn to the Rays

So you trade Dunn -- where do you replace his 100+ RBI, 40+ HRs and .385 OBP skills next season?

Because the Reds already have a run differential problem they must overcome to ever have a shot at competing. Why dig your pitching a deeper hole by gutting your offense?

RedLegSuperStar
07-31-2008, 09:26 AM
So you trade Dunn -- where do you replace his 100+ RBI, 40+ HRs and .385 OBP skills next season?

Because the Reds already have a run differential problem they must overcome to ever have a shot at competing. Why dig your pitching a deeper hole by gutting your offense?

Well banking on the fact they get prospects in any potential Dunn trade I think they could make a run a dealing some of those prospects for a power bat. Perhaps they sign Pat Burrell or Vladimir Guerrero.

I'd like to see B.J. Upton and John Jaso in return for Adam Dunn.

Ltlabner
07-31-2008, 09:26 AM
Thats your opinion.

In my opinion it would be nuts for the Reds to let Adam Dunn leave this organization via trade or as a free agent.

Oh but Ron, you don't understand all the reasons why he's killing this team.

He doesn't love baseball, he loves playstation.

He doesn't "play the game the right way". That he is very successfull at "playing the game the wrong way" is beside the point.

He doesn't play "small ball". Sure he plays "long ball" but where's the "small ball" I ask.

He doesn't "choke up and make contact with RISP". Just forget that he is a runner in scoring position when he comes to the plate. Don't over complicate things.

He doesn't "know how to win". That he has been the most productive Reds player of the century, and has contributed in total (and many times as the sole reason) to many of what little wins the Reds have, isn't really relevant.

He doesn't "do the little things". 40HR, 100RBI and 100R aren't the "little things".

He doesn't play a very good LF. nobody else does either, but I woln't tell if you don't.

He doesn't have "guts". I'm not really sure what the hell that means.....see Jeff Brantley.

He doesn't adjust...he doesn't get any better. That he was already good to begin with really doesn't matter. Oh yea, don't ask about why Corey Patterson doesn't "get any better", we're talking about Dunn here tough-guy.

See....just think of how much better this team will be once you get rid of the cancer that is Mr. Adam Dunn. Norris Hopper, here we come!

edabbs44
07-31-2008, 09:27 AM
So you trade Dunn -- where do you replace his 100+ RBI, 40+ HRs and .385 OBP skills next season?

Because the Reds already have a run differential problem they must overcome to ever have a shot at competing. Why dig your pitching a deeper hole by gutting your offense?

They would be creating a short term deficiency for a long term solution. At least that's what they should be doing.

deltachi8
07-31-2008, 09:30 AM
Reds would be nuts to not trade Dunn to the Rays

Depends on the return...and it better be a whopper to move Dunn....

princeton
07-31-2008, 09:44 AM
I still think it is going to a be a major mistake getting rid of Dunn. Interesting stat from Ken Rosenthal's article about Dunn today.

the timing of that article is very fortunate for the Reds. I like to think that our canny marketing department released it to Rosenthal??? (j/k)

Hopefully some GM or owner reads this information and makes an appropriate offer-- be it another team, or Castellini.

that said, Dunn is MUCH inferior to every player on that list. baseball's not all about stats.

durl
07-31-2008, 10:08 AM
I say you keep Dunn and allow him to be your power bat. Then bring in other guys that can get on base and have a higher OBP and BA w/RISP. I really can't understand trading away one of the most productive offensive players in baseball over the past 4 years.

I mentioned it elsewhere, but I don't see the point of trading a .240 batter that gives you 40 HR/100 RBIs/100 Runs scored while keeping several other guys that hit .250-.260 with 20 HR/75 RBIs/80 Runs.

RedLegSuperStar
07-31-2008, 10:12 AM
I say you keep Dunn and allow him to be your power bat. Then bring in other guys that can get on base and have a higher OBP and BA w/RISP. I really can't understand trading away one of the most productive offensive players in baseball over the past 4 years.

I mentioned it elsewhere, but I don't see the point of trading a .240 batter that gives you 40 HR/100 RBIs/100 Runs scored while keeping several other guys that hit .250-.260 with 20 HR/75/RBIs/80 Runs.

and truth be told Dunn has never had much protection in the order.. he's maybe batted 3rd.. a hand full of times if that. Imagine if he had the chance to get 1 more at bat a game.

I'm torn on this.. You love Dunn because he can get on base and hit with so much power.. but you love to hate Dunn because he strikesout and has below average to average defense.

RedsBaron
07-31-2008, 10:16 AM
Well banking on the fact they get prospects in any potential Dunn trade I think they could make a run a dealing some of those prospects for a power bat. Perhaps they sign Pat Burrell or Vladimir Guerrero.



I can't see the Reds getting Vlad. As for Burrell, he is three years older than Dunn, has never hit 40 HRs in a season, and his career batting average/OBP/SLG numbers of .260 .370 .490 are no improvement over Dunn's .248 .381 .523. Replacing Dunn with Burrell would be getting a guy three years older who is at best no improvement as a hitter.

NC Reds
07-31-2008, 10:42 AM
I love Dunn. Re-sign him and surround him with some better talent.

The losing seasons are attributable to poor pitching, not lack of production from Adam Dunn.

OnBaseMachine
07-31-2008, 11:07 AM
9:40 a.m.

More and more, the Rays are looking at Adam Dunn as a realistic possibility. He isn't the right-handed hitter they have been seeking, but he would bring them needed power. He leads the majors in homers over the last five years (198) and this year (32). He also hit two Wednesday night, boosting Reds GM Walt Jocketty's position.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/07/29/heyman.tradeblog/index.html?eref=T1

IslandRed
07-31-2008, 11:15 AM
So you trade Dunn -- where do you replace his 100+ RBI, 40+ HRs and .385 OBP skills next season?

Don't trade him and you might have to replace it anyway. Y'all kind of forget sometimes that he gets a vote from now on.

Cyclone792
07-31-2008, 11:25 AM
Griffey to White Sox

by Will Carroll

Ken Rosenthal is reporting that Ken Griffey Jr has been traded to the White Sox. My sources called minutes after — how? C is before R on the call list, right? — to confirm this. As yet, no word on who the Reds get or, more importantly, if Griffey will approve the deal. The Reds earlier had “discussions” with the Rays regarding Adam Dunn, but I’m told that those talks did not get serious. The Reds are also expected to deal David Weathers. More on this once we have more info.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=970

Excellent news if the Rays talks aren't getting serious.

Dunn's a loyal guy. Reach out to him for an extension. Offer him a no-trade - he hates trade rumors so a no-trade would give him the loyalty he likes - and try to land him on a nice deal for both sides.

OnBaseMachine
07-31-2008, 11:30 AM
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=970

Excellent news if the Rays talks aren't getting serious.

Dunn's a loyal guy. Reach out to him for an extension. Offer him a no-trade - he hates trade rumors so a no-trade would give him the loyalty he likes - and try to land him on a nice deal for both sides.

Heyman's recent update says the Rays are viewing Dunn as a more realistic possibility now. If the Rays were to offer Reid Brignac, Jeff Niemann, and another prospect I would consider it, otherwise I'd hold on to him and lock him up.

OnBaseMachine
07-31-2008, 12:21 PM
From Will Carroll:

The Rays remain Plan B with Jason Bay, but they haven’t put up the
prospects in quality or quantity that the Pirates want in return. The
Rays have also made some inquiries regarding Adam Dunn, though they
were very cursory. It’s unclear whether Dunn could still be traded,
assuming that the Ken Griffey deal is completed. Don’t expect much to
happen here—the Reds would want “three premium prospects” in return
for Dunn.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=971

Cyclone792
07-31-2008, 12:26 PM
From Will Carroll:

The Rays remain Plan B with Jason Bay, but they haven’t put up the
prospects in quality or quantity that the Pirates want in return. The
Rays have also made some inquiries regarding Adam Dunn, though they
were very cursory. It’s unclear whether Dunn could still be traded,
assuming that the Ken Griffey deal is completed. Don’t expect much to
happen here—the Reds would want “three premium prospects” in return
for Dunn.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=971

Fan-freakin-tastic!

SirFelixCat
07-31-2008, 02:02 PM
From Will Carroll:

The Rays remain Plan B with Jason Bay, but they haven’t put up the
prospects in quality or quantity that the Pirates want in return. The
Rays have also made some inquiries regarding Adam Dunn, though they
were very cursory. It’s unclear whether Dunn could still be traded,
assuming that the Ken Griffey deal is completed. Don’t expect much to
happen here—the Reds would want “three premium prospects” in return
for Dunn.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=971

Thrilled to hear this...saw it earlier but the board was down.

Either have them meet your asking price or don't move'em. Play hardball, Walt!

OnBaseMachine
07-31-2008, 02:35 PM
If they miss out on Bay, the Rays are also rumored to be eyeing Reds' slugger Adam Dunn, with Cincinnati expressing interest in both Hellickson and Niemann. As a left-handed hitter, Dunn is a less than ideal fit as the Rays are in dire need of a right-handed bat that can also platoon in right field. But Dunn does pose power -- with a Major League-leading 32 home runs -- and could be an option if the Rays come up short in Pittsburgh.

http://trades.mlblogs.com/

Caveat Emperor
07-31-2008, 02:59 PM
Reds are holding all the chips here -- the Rays prospect rich and success poor.

That's a disaster looking for a place to happen.

Besides, this is one situation where it absolutely does not hurt to walk away from the table.

OnBaseMachine
07-31-2008, 04:28 PM
There was a rumor that the Rays had a deal for Dunn as a backup plan to Bay but it now looks as if Bay has been traded to the Rays.

Az Red
07-31-2008, 07:33 PM
This one may simmer through the waiver trading season.

Raisor
07-31-2008, 09:24 PM
CTRENT


Thursday, July 31, 2008, 06:52 PM EST [Reds]


The post-Ken Griffey Jr. era in Cincinnati will feature Adam Dunn -- for now, at least.

Reds general manager Walt Jocketty said he wants to get a look of an outfield of Dunn, Jerry Hairston Jr. and Jay Bruce before making any long-term decisions.

"It gives us an opportunity to look at what our future can be, bring Jerry Hairston back a day early," Jocketty said on a conference call on Thursday. "Move Jay Bruce to right, Dunn in left and see how that outfield makeup works as we evaluate our club for the future."

Hairston has been on a rehab assignment with Class AAA Louisville. He has played in two games with the Bats and is eligible to come off of the disabled list.

Griffey was the only Red moved on Thursday, the non-waiver trade deadline. Although the Tampa Bay Rays had been rumored to be interested in Dunn, no trade was completed.

Dunn, David Weathers, Jeremy Affeldt and David Ross had all had varying levels of rumors attached to their names, but none were moved.

Jocketty said he was surprised about the relative lack of movement, despite the blockbuster deals in the last two days that sent three future Hall of Famers packing -- Griffey, Manny Ramirez and Ivan Rodriguez.

"We never felt there was one that really benefited us," Jocketty said. "We were better off holding onto the players and trying to win as many games as we can."

A Major League source said he expected Dunn, Affeldt and Ross to pass through waivers. Affeldt's one-year contract is back-loaded with a large bonus due after the season.

The Reds received major league reliever Nick Masset and minor league infielder Danny Richar in return. Jocketty said he was surprised that he was able to acquire those two in return for Griffey.

Jocketty said the decision had already been made not to pick up the club's $16 million option after the season. Griffey has a $4 million buyout if the option is declined. The White Sox will reportedly split that bill with the Reds.

In Masset and Richar, the Reds got two players Jocketty said he's been eyeing for years. Masset will join the Reds and could be with the team as soon as Friday, while Richar will be assigned to Class AAA Louisville.

"Initially we'll use him as a reliever," Jocketty said. "We don't have a lot of depth in pitching. If we had something happen to one of our starters, with (Daryl) Thompson and (Matt) Maloney at AAA it gives us more depth."

Masset, 26, is 1-0 with a 4.63 ERA in 32 games for the White Sox this season. He's also been a starter during his career, starting two big league games, including one this season.

Richar, 25, is hitting .263 with eight home runs and 38 home runs in 60 games for Class AAA Charlotte. He hit .230 with six home runs in 56 games with the White Sox last season.

To make room for Richar on the 40-man roster, INF/OF Ryan Freel was transferred to the 60-day disabled list.

"We added quality players we'll control for quite a while," Jocketty said. "That's what you've got to do building an organization."

icehole3
08-01-2008, 08:53 AM
So you trade Dunn -- where do you replace his 100+ RBI, 40+ HRs and .385 OBP skills next season?

Because the Reds already have a run differential problem they must overcome to ever have a shot at competing. Why dig your pitching a deeper hole by gutting your offense?

this is from Lance's Blog

Things heard
I just went back and watched ESPN's Trade Deadline show. They were discussing the lack of interest in Dunn....his flaws, not knowing where he really fits in the order, the money involved...etc. Buster Olney said, "I talked to one GM today that said he wouldn't give Dunn more than a one or two year deal at 5-million a year when he becomes a free agent this offseason.

I think I'll go with what other scouts and GMs think about Dunn and say he wont be resigning with the Reds at the price he thinks he's worth.

jojo
08-01-2008, 09:00 AM
this is from Lance's Blog

Things heard
I just went back and watched ESPN's Trade Deadline show. They were discussing the lack of interest in Dunn....his flaws, not knowing where he really fits in the order, the money involved...etc. Buster Olney said, "I talked to one GM today that said he wouldn't give Dunn more than a one or two year deal at 5-million a year when he becomes a free agent this offseason.

I think I'll go with what other scouts and GMs think about Dunn and say he wont be resigning with the Reds at the price he thinks he's worth.

He won't be resigning with the Reds at a pay cut either.....

RichRed
08-01-2008, 10:36 AM
this is from Lance's Blog

Things heard
I just went back and watched ESPN's Trade Deadline show. They were discussing the lack of interest in Dunn....his flaws, not knowing where he really fits in the order, the money involved...etc. Buster Olney said, "I talked to one GM today that said he wouldn't give Dunn more than a one or two year deal at 5-million a year when he becomes a free agent this offseason.


Ricciardi?

marcshoe
08-01-2008, 11:08 AM
this is from Lance's Blog

Things heard
I just went back and watched ESPN's Trade Deadline show. They were discussing the lack of interest in Dunn....his flaws, not knowing where he really fits in the order, the money involved...etc. Buster Olney said, "I talked to one GM today that said he wouldn't give Dunn more than a one or two year deal at 5-million a year when he becomes a free agent this offseason.


I'm sorry, but that's absurd. If a gm said that, the game is in worse shape than I thought. Forget pay inequity, steroids, etc.--the deeper problem may be that the guys in decision-making positions care more about their own limited perception than reality.

redsmetz
08-01-2008, 11:17 AM
Again, I could be wrong in my little analysis on the Signing Dunn Long Term thread, but easily there could be 7-8 clubs who would have serious interest in Adam Dunn, not including us. And the piper will be paid. The GM Olney spoke with must have been pretty sauced.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-01-2008, 11:22 AM
I still don't trust this front office.

Since this season is toast, I'm kind of hoping that Hairston regresses to his former self from here on out so that they don't make the mistake of thinking he's the team's CF in 2009.

Hairston and Keppinger are great utility/bench players and that is it (see past mistake: Freel, Ryan).

RedsManRick
08-01-2008, 11:23 AM
I still don't trust this front office.

Since this season is toast, I'm kind of hoping that Hairston regresses to his former self from here on out so that they don't make the mistake of thinking he's the team's CF in 2009.

Hairston and Keppinger are great utility/bench players and that is it (see past mistake: Freel, Ryan).

Amen.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-01-2008, 11:24 AM
this is from Lance's Blog

Things heard
I just went back and watched ESPN's Trade Deadline show. They were discussing the lack of interest in Dunn....his flaws, not knowing where he really fits in the order, the money involved...etc. Buster Olney said, "I talked to one GM today that said he wouldn't give Dunn more than a one or two year deal at 5-million a year when he becomes a free agent this offseason.

I think I'll go with what other scouts and GMs think about Dunn and say he wont be resigning with the Reds at the price he thinks he's worth.

It's scary that there are people in positions to make major baseball decisions that think this way.

princeton
08-01-2008, 11:25 AM
It's scary that there are people in positions to make major baseball decisions that think this way.

nonsense.

it's opportunity.

Dunn's a job-coster. He could very well hit .220, set a K record, never be tradeable, and cause Talk Radio to advocate for the GM's ouster. most gm's like to hold their jobs. that's why George'll be the one to sign him. he's not a gm.

RedsManRick
08-01-2008, 11:27 AM
nonsense.

it's opportunity.

:beerme:

I hope there are 29 other GMs who don't think Dunn is worth more than 2/10.

westofyou
08-01-2008, 11:27 AM
this is from Lance's Blog

Things heard
I just went back and watched ESPN's Trade Deadline show. They were discussing the lack of interest in Dunn....his flaws, not knowing where he really fits in the order, the money involved...etc. Buster Olney said, "I talked to one GM today that said he wouldn't give Dunn more than a one or two year deal at 5-million a year when he becomes a free agent this offseason.

I think I'll go with what other scouts and GMs think about Dunn and say he wont be resigning with the Reds at the price he thinks he's worth.

Lance is equally moronic as well, his baseball acumen is currently registering in the negative range... as for ESPN... well I guess it is as bad as all that these days.

Johnny Footstool
08-01-2008, 11:28 AM
Olney used to be a good writer. Now he's hungry for controversy -- he wants to be the straw that stirs the drink, so he takes an extreme position on every issue. I have very little respect for his opinions now.

blumj
08-01-2008, 11:41 AM
nonsense.

it's opportunity.

Dunn's a job-coster. He could very well hit .220, set a K record, never be tradeable, and cause Talk Radio to advocate for the GM's ouster. most gm's like to hold their jobs. that's why George'll be the one to sign him. he's not a gm.
George?

KronoRed
08-01-2008, 01:40 PM
George?

Little Hanks papa.

NJReds
08-01-2008, 02:16 PM
It's scary that there are people in positions to make major baseball decisions that think this way.

The same people who give Andrew Jones 2 yrs - $18M.

Caveat Emperor
08-01-2008, 02:29 PM
I think I'll go with what other scouts and GMs think about Dunn and say he wont be resigning with the Reds at the price he thinks he's worth.

Other scouts apparently think that 40 HRs, 100+ RBI, .380+ OBP grows on trees.

That's cool for them -- best of luck finding that in the offseason. I'll stick with what I know works very well.