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redhawk61
07-30-2008, 01:59 PM
From Jon Heyman:

Finally, there appears to be some action on Reds slugger Adam Dunn. An NL source says at least two teams are expressing interest in the formerly unwanted star. Dunn is the Major League leader in home runs (over No. 2 Alex Rodriguez) and walks (over Todd Helton) over the past five years. Maybe somebody's finally realizing that.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/07/29/heyman.tradeblog/index.html?eref=T1

I could see the following teams being potential fits:
Arizona
Boston (if they trade Manny)
New York Mets
Dodgers
Rays

In that order

Ahhhorsepoo
07-30-2008, 02:05 PM
Mets,

Please send us Fernando Martinez and Daniel Murphy.. I would GO CRAZY if we got that deal.. for adam dunn..

I have heard nothing short of almost assured about those two as potential MLB starters..

Red Sox,

Chris Carter or Jeff Coraletti and Michael Bowden..

Diamondbacks,
Whitesell.. thats it.. then we move votto to LF.. he is more built than adam dunn as well..

those would be my hopes for return..

redhawk61
07-30-2008, 02:10 PM
Lets hope we can get that top tier talent that Walt is after now. I have been an advocate of moving Dunn but we really need to get a ML ready bat ( at least ready by '09) in any deal back. IF we don;t get that then there is no choice and I think WJ and company offer him arbitration and bring him back for 1 more year till potentially more bats are ready from within the system, like the Stubbs, Dorns, Cumberlands, Henry's, and Fraizers of the world.

I would love if Walt could get the Dodgers really into it and agree to give up Kemp/ Either

Ghosts of 1990
07-30-2008, 02:33 PM
Keeping my fingers crossed that Dunn remains a red....

Ghosts of 1990
07-30-2008, 02:34 PM
I'd also bet the two interested teams are NL teams (since the NL source would be more familiar with them).

I'd bet those teams are Arizona (lost out on Teixiera) and Los Angeles (doesn't want him to go to Arizona, have liked Dunn for a while)

Ahhhorsepoo
07-30-2008, 02:39 PM
usually the second or third player in a position catch the best fall, because the team that lost out on their original goal(tex) realize maybe they have to up their bid to get a player.. soo lets hope we get a ML ready OF'er and a prospect or 2, or 2 great prospects..

44Magnum
07-30-2008, 02:42 PM
I don't care who we get in return. I just want him gone!

Ghosts of 1990
07-30-2008, 02:53 PM
I don't care who we get in return. I just want him gone!

Unreal.

I notice you're an Eric Davis fan.

Eric Davis wasn't 1/4th of the player Dunn is, at his best.... when he was actually on the field.

will5979
07-30-2008, 02:55 PM
I'm also hoping Dunn stays a Red. Trust me, Reds fans will miss him if he gets traded.

Ghosts of 1990
07-30-2008, 02:57 PM
I'm also hoping Dunn stays a Red. Trust me, Reds fans will miss him if he gets traded.

There were Reds fans all over that couldn't wait to "trade Josh Hamilton" for anything that resembled a pitching prospect. We got lucky and got a decent deal (I still don't like it).

Ahhhorsepoo
07-30-2008, 02:58 PM
Unreal.

I notice you're an Eric Davis fan.

Eric Davis wasn't 1/4th of the player Dunn is, at his best.... when he was actually on the field.

Did you honestly say that..?! when he played for Cinci and was winning gold gloves.. he was potentially the best outfielder in the game.. or at least in that argument.. and he did go 35/35 one year..

when he was healthy(meaning for the first 6 or 7 years of his career) some considered him to have the talent of one of the BEST OUTFIELDERS OF ALL TIME... I still know people that to this day, at ages over 70 years old.. MULTIPLE people that is, say he had the talent to be as great as ANYONE, and was one of the finest fielders they ever saw.. and he could hit real well too..

please dont make remarks that are totally wrong again..

Grounds_Crew
07-30-2008, 03:00 PM
The George Bush comment was a little (a lot) far fetched...but I agree with your comment about Dunn. I hope the Reds keep him.

ED44
07-30-2008, 03:02 PM
Unreal.

I notice you're an Eric Davis fan.

Eric Davis wasn't 1/4th of the player Dunn is, at his best.... when he was actually on the field.

That is one of the most ridculous posts I have ever seen on this board...and I've seen lots. Adam Dunn doesn't begin to sniff the jock of Eric Davis in terms of overall ability (and I like Dunn).

Ghosts of 1990
07-30-2008, 03:04 PM
Lets not talk in terms of ability or make it a Dunn vs. ED thread.

I'm talking in terms of what Davis accomplished (fell short and will never be HOF) and what Dunn has and will accomplish. Dunn is on his way to the Hall of Fame.

Fon Duc Tow
07-30-2008, 03:04 PM
Dunn will be appreciated after he's gone, just like George W. Bush.

:rolleyes:

:thumbdown

Ahhhorsepoo
07-30-2008, 03:07 PM
dunn will hit 1100 homers, get 12 GG's and have 4 at least WS rings?? because then you can tell me ED wasn't 1/4 of Dunn, if you are looking at WHOLE CAREER..

There isn't one part of that post that is even remotely right.. except that you spelled the real #44's name right..

757690
07-30-2008, 03:10 PM
Lets not talk in terms of ability or make it a Dunn vs. ED thread.

I'm talking in terms of what Davis accomplished (fell short and will never be HOF) and what Dunn has and will accomplish. Dunn is on his way to the Hall of Fame.

When he gets to the Hall of Fame, I hope it is not sold out. I would hate for him to go all the way to Cooperstown, and not get to see all the exhibits.

Ahhhorsepoo
07-30-2008, 03:12 PM
he will be listed as the man with the most strikeouts in ML history.. at least until Ryan howard passes him.. because howard has more staying power in baseball, and will surely beat Dunns number that will blow Reggies number outta the water..

Ahhhorsepoo
07-30-2008, 03:14 PM
When he gets to the Hall of Fame, I hope it is not sold out. I would hate for him to go all the way to Cooperstown, and not get to see all the exhibits.

Honestly I wouldn't hate that at all.. I am sure he would rather fish than see individuals who actually worked hard to improve their talents and upgrade their value for a team..

Fon Duc Tow
07-30-2008, 03:24 PM
Doesn't Dunn lead the league in HRs right now?

Just checking... You would think he was in Patterson's league, reading some of the replies here.

redsfanfalcon
07-30-2008, 03:25 PM
Unreal.

I notice you're an Eric Davis fan.

Eric Davis wasn't 1/4th of the player Dunn is, at his best.... when he was actually on the field.

I think that when one criticizes the play of a player they do not remember playing (due to being young) it is important not to compare their play to a current Red.
I am careful not to do this since I missed the Big Red Machine and it stinks that I did. I was born the second year of their back to back WS wins. I loved to watch Eric Davis play, he was my favorite growing up, and Dunn is a different type of player. Davis was a (hate to quote Jim Bowden!) five tool player, when healthy. Dunn is more of a one tool player...hit for power.

Ahhhorsepoo
07-30-2008, 03:30 PM
Doesn't Dunn lead the league in HRs right now?

Just checking... You would think he was in Patterson's league, reading some of the replies here.

I never said he was the worst ever.. but comparing him to ED when healthy.. he better be Ken Griffey Junior of the 90's to even have a possible argument.. not current Adam Dunn..

bounty37h
07-30-2008, 03:48 PM
Unreal.

I notice you're an Eric Davis fan.

Eric Davis wasn't 1/4th of the player Dunn is, at his best.... when he was actually on the field.

OK, you have made some good arguements in the past for Dunn, but this one is ridiculous.

Fon Duc Tow
07-30-2008, 03:49 PM
I never said he was the worst ever.. but comparing him to ED when healthy.. he better be Ken Griffey Junior of the 90's to even have a possible argument.. not current Adam Dunn..

Agreed there. Both players, at their best and worst, are absolutely nothing like each other. Dave Parker from the era I could see... maybe. Even that is a stretch. I'm not sure the Reds have ever had a player like Dunn. Average fielder, below average arm, Mendoza-like batting average and leads the league in HRs.

We have a DH for a LFer. But he'd be an awesome DH in the 6-hole though, would he not?

bounty37h
07-30-2008, 03:52 PM
Lets not talk in terms of ability or make it a Dunn vs. ED thread.

I'm talking in terms of what Davis accomplished (fell short and will never be HOF) and what Dunn has and will accomplish. Dunn is on his way to the Hall of Fame.

He cant even make an allstar team ,you really think he will make the HOF???? Reds HOF, yes, most likely, thats about as far as you can go though-and i like Dunn, not bashing him. Your really losing any credibility you had fast with this crazy talk, your homerism is taking over rational thinking.

BLEEDS
07-30-2008, 03:56 PM
IFF we HAVE to trade Dunn, I hope it's to the Dodgers.
I'd warm up to the idea of Matt Kemp in CF for the next 3-4 years of his Arbitration, after which we probably couldn't afford him, but perhaps we could offer him a BP type contract to buy out his option years.
He would be a definite solid guy in CF for us, and OPS in the .800 range, with a .350-ish OBP.
He also a Righty who can hit RHP (.283 career), and CRUSHES Lefties (.348 career).
We'd probably have to throw in someone else - maybe a Bailey - to get it done, along with them throwing in another prospect or two, but I could live with that.
It also makes sense for the Dodgers, since they need the 450+ft HRS in that stadium, whereas in GABP, even Brandon Phillips can sneak more than his fair share 382 or so and get 30 in a luck-filled year.

THEN, I'd make my play for Jason Bay to play Left Field.
The Pirates are stupid enough to give him away for some AA prospects, of which we have many. He would be $7.5M for 2009. He seems to have rebounded from last year, and he can OPS in the .900 range for us.
AND he's Right Handed - and can HIT RIGHT HANDERS as well as Lefties (What a concept!), although he's struggled this year against lefties which looks like an anamoly, not a trend.
MAYBE we could even sign him to a long-term deal in the $12M per range - which is WAY more than he's ever made yet, would be under market value, and he's only a year older than Dunn.


See, it's not that hard to come up with a REALISTIC way to replace Dunn's Production, I just had to do it for y'all!!

Don't know if the Dodgers would give up Kemp, which is step one, but if we're SERIOUS about getting value for value - a la Hamilton for Volquez - we may have to give up Bailey to get it done, which I'm sure would cause some grief, but I'd say it'd be worth the effort.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Griffey012
07-30-2008, 03:57 PM
Agreed there. Both players, at their best and worst, are absolutely nothing like each other. Dave Parker from the era I could see... maybe. Even that is a stretch. I'm not sure the Reds have ever had a player like Dunn. Average fielder, below average arm, Mendoza-like batting average and leads the league in HRs.

We have a DH for a LFer. But he'd be an awesome DH in the 6-hole though, would he not?

The only people with a Mendoza-like batting average on this team is Patterson and Bako.

tsj017
07-30-2008, 04:40 PM
Eric Davis RIGHT NOW is probably a better defensive outfielder than Dunn.

With Dunn wearing 44, Davis has grounds for a defamation lawsuit.

Please, God (and/or Castellini and/or Jocketty), let Dunn be traded, so we can finally be rid of this lumbering oaf.

And Griffey, too, if we can manage it.

When the Reds finally get rid of these two--and hopefully get away from the softball-team mentality--we might have a chance at being good again. Maybe.

The Lost Decade of the 00s? One of the worst stretches in Reds history? Two players have been constants for most (Dunn) or all (Griffey) of that time.

How many winning teams has either of them played for? Answer: not many. Griffey had at least a few winning seasons in Seattle and one here.

This is not a coincidence.

freestyle55
07-30-2008, 04:49 PM
How many winning teams has either of them played for? Answer: not many. Griffey had at least a few winning seasons in Seattle and one here.

This is not a coincidence.

Wow....just wow...guess that means that Ernie Banks must not have been very good and a cancer in the locker room since he never won a World Series and played on only 6 winning teams in his career...

If you're going to make the argument that these 2 need to go fine, I think with Griffey, ok, Dunn that's stupid, but whatever...but don't lay the blame of gross incompetence in the management and ownership of this franchise at it's best player in the 2000's and a HOF-er who suffered through bad luck and injuries...

Ghosts of 1990
07-30-2008, 04:49 PM
Some will just never 'get it' about adam dunn. and that is fine. He's more productive then eric davis ever was, and I bet he will be more productive than Davis was at ages 30-38.

Ghosts of 1990
07-30-2008, 04:50 PM
Wow....just wow...guess that means that Ernie Banks must not have been very good and a cancer in the locker room since he never won a World Series and played on only 6 winning teams in his career...

If you're going to make the argument that these 2 need to go fine, I think with Griffey, ok, Dunn that's stupid, but whatever...but don't lay the blame of gross incompetence in the management and ownership of this franchise at it's best player in the 2000's and a HOF-er who suffered through bad luck and injuries...


No kidding, like Dunn is the one who decided to have Jimmy Haynes and Paul Wilson bolster the rotation when he began his career....

We havent had anything that resembled a decent team since 1999, when Dunn was a pup.

kpresidente
07-30-2008, 04:51 PM
I guess everybody was just waiting to see where Tixeira would go.

Ghosts of 1990
07-30-2008, 05:03 PM
Whatcha gonna do... when Adam Dunn's hall of fame plaque, runs willllld on you?

/Hulk Hogan voice

realreds1
07-30-2008, 05:09 PM
Unreal.

I notice you're an Eric Davis fan.

Eric Davis wasn't 1/4th of the player Dunn is, at his best.... when he was actually on the field.

Sorry, but I disagree. Dunn is a great player, but Davis -- when healthy -- was an all-around ballplayer. The key phrase was "when healthy." I spent a lot of summers watching both guys. While their style of play is quite different, I'd take a healthy Davis in a heartbeat over Dunn.

Kingspoint
07-30-2008, 05:14 PM
The Cubs are looking at acquiring a LH power bat to put in Right Field.

That would be payback for us getting Patterson and Baker.

Seriously, it'd be a win-win for both clubs.

The Snow Chief
07-30-2008, 05:16 PM
Some will just never 'get it' about adam dunn. and that is fine. He's more productive then eric davis ever was, and I bet he will be more productive than Davis was at ages 30-38.

More production at the plate, certainly. Factoring in base running and + defense, it is, at best, a wash. If you are going to argue Dunn is more productive than ED, that is worthy of debate. Saying ED when healthy is not 1/4th the player of Dunn causes you to lose credibility.

ChatterRed
07-30-2008, 05:39 PM
ED one of my favorite Reds players of all time in him prime and when healthy.

They took a poll of major league catchers and asked them who they feared the most trying to steal a base. ED was the #1 choice.

Yes, he was a 5 tool outfielder, who when healthy, delivered the goods.

44Magnum
07-30-2008, 05:48 PM
Lets not talk in terms of ability or make it a Dunn vs. ED thread.

I'm talking in terms of what Davis accomplished (fell short and will never be HOF) and what Dunn has and will accomplish. Dunn is on his way to the Hall of Fame.

Talk about back-pedaling! At least you realize what a crazy statement you made.

bgwilly31
07-30-2008, 07:30 PM
There were Reds fans all over that couldn't wait to "trade Josh Hamilton" for anything that resembled a pitching prospect. We got lucky and got a decent deal (I still don't like it).

What the heck were they thinking.

A relapse. :lol: I love it how many people were commenting about his relapse possibilities being so great. :lol: Yeah fellas keep holding your breath.


Dunn is a good fit in cincinnati. He's just not a good fit with griffey still batting in the 3 hole. Griffey needs to be gone a long time ago. When that happens i think a lot fo the dunn haters will go away.

redsfanmia
07-30-2008, 08:09 PM
Unreal.

I notice you're an Eric Davis fan.

Eric Davis wasn't 1/4th of the player Dunn is, at his best.... when he was actually on the field.

What are you smoking?

CWRed
07-30-2008, 08:28 PM
I don't care who we get in return. I just want him gone!

Ignorant. Simply unreal.

redsfanmia
07-30-2008, 08:36 PM
Ignorant. Simply unreal.

I dont want him back next season I just think it time to move on, but I think peoples reaction to Dunn just show what a frustrating ball player he is.

fadetoblack2880
07-30-2008, 09:43 PM
If the Reds trade Dunn, I hope to God all of these Dunn hating idiots disappear.

redhawk61
07-30-2008, 10:19 PM
If the Reds trade Dunn, I hope to God all of these Dunn hating idiots disappear.
In could go either way, but for me not to lose complete faith in this organization, they must deal for a catcher, preferably Saltalamacchia. It would be a deal which wouldn't break apart the team just like the FO wants, so the chance to reach their magical goal of above .500 could still be attainable. The only guy on the ML roster we might lose is Homer, and I will gladly part with him for a 23 yr olf offensive minded catcher who can be here for many years. I'm sick of the LaRue's, Ross', Valentine's, and Bako's, I want someone who can at least do something above the average catcher.

Would Homer and Carlos Fisher be enough?

Kingspoint
07-30-2008, 10:39 PM
If that 2nd HOMERUN TONIGHT doesn't get someone to pull the trigger on Dunn, then I've just got to think that all of the G.M.'s around the league are idiots. He leads the Major Leagues in homeruns and he's hot and he's in his prime. What more would they want?

Sell high....sell high....

Kingspoint
07-30-2008, 10:56 PM
12 homeruns in July (so far)....

I would think that would be a REDS' record for homeruns in July.

757690
07-30-2008, 11:46 PM
If that 2nd HOMERUN TONIGHT doesn't get someone to pull the trigger on Dunn, then I've just got to think that all of the G.M.'s around the league are idiots. He leads the Major Leagues in homeruns and he's hot and he's in his prime. What more would they want?

Sell high....sell high....

Not that this is fair, but this might have something to do with teams shying away from Dunn.

Career:
Sept .222 .355 .422 .778

last year he did have a great Sept. but he does have a rep for end of the season slumps.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-31-2008, 12:41 AM
Reds and Tampa Bay are talking I've read from Jayson Stark and another website. They seem to have prospects to spare.

pitcher7
07-31-2008, 01:17 AM
Saw a link to Jon Heyman's blog from www.ohiosportnews.com . Seems like he is also reporting the Rays have contacted Dunn.

It is very intriguing, the Rays have tons of top prospects. However, for what the Reds seem to be asking for Dunn, I don't know whether a deal would get done. The Rays really don't want to give up any of their talent. Now its time to see what Jocketty can do.

Slyder
07-31-2008, 01:19 AM
Reds and Tampa Bay are talking I've read from Jayson Stark and another website. They seem to have prospects to spare.

Bait and switch talk down Dunn and talk up Griffey. :cool:

joshua
07-31-2008, 01:32 AM
How many winning seasons have the Reds had with Dunn?

Exactly.

Time to start selling off, rebuilding and acquiring youth. You don't build rosters on veterans, you build it on the young guys and plug in vets to round out it all out.

pitcher7
07-31-2008, 01:38 AM
Bait and switch talk down Dunn and talk up Griffey.

I only wish that was possible. Trading Griffey could be the best thing that happens to the Reds, even if it means eating his salary for the rest of the season

757690
07-31-2008, 01:48 AM
Bait and switch talk down Dunn and talk up Griffey. :cool:

Would be nice, but Griffey can not be traded. He has a full no trade, and has made it clear that he will not accept a trade no matter what. Sorry.

pitcher7
07-31-2008, 01:49 AM
Maybe he could be DFA...could you imagine that! I wonder how people would react to that...of course, Corey Patterson would have to be DFA'd before him and we know that won't happen.

ChatterRed
07-31-2008, 01:58 AM
Would be nice, but Griffey can not be traded. He has a full no trade, and has made it clear that he will not accept a trade no matter what. Sorry.

That's simply not true. He has said he'd be interested in the Rays because it's close to his home.

Ain't gonna happen because nobody wants him. But certainly an option.

757690
07-31-2008, 02:04 AM
That's simply not true. He has said he'd be interested in the Rays because it's close to his home.

Ain't gonna happen because nobody wants him. But certainly an option.

Just reporting what I read on Hal's Blog. I have no idea if he is right. But you are right, the Rays don't want him, or at least they shouldn't.

Mr.RedStripe
07-31-2008, 02:27 AM
2 HRs for Dunn tonight vs. HOU. That makes 32 for the season, leading all of MLB.

After his performance tonight and with the deadline upon us, I think his value has hit its highest point in a long time.

I am not advocating a trade, as I would like the 2 #1's if he signs elsewhere next season.
But If they are going to just let him walk next year without trying to resign him, now would be the best time to try and get something for him.

The only way I would do a trade is if what came in return was greater than the 2 #1's.

fadetoblack2880
07-31-2008, 02:54 AM
How many winning seasons have the Reds had with Dunn?

Exactly.

Time to start selling off, rebuilding and acquiring youth. You don't build rosters on veterans, you build it on the young guys and plug in vets to round out it all out.

yeah, 10 more years of rebuilding is what we all want. i believe the term "rebuild" was thrown out a few years ago. it should've been "build." trading dunn will kill what little offense the reds have had lately, which before tonight was zilch. trade some aging soon to be free agent relievers, not a 28 year old who's on pace for a 5th straight 40+ homer season. the reds haven't had a winning season since dunn's been here but he didn't sign the half rates bowden and o'brien signed to pitch. it's not dunns fault the reds had guys like jimmy haynes, danny serafini, and john bale starting games. you don't send a guy like dunn to an opponent, you build around young guys like dunn, harang, phillips, volquez, cueto, votto, etc. oh, and keppinger isn't the answer at short either...

LouisvilleCARDS
07-31-2008, 03:24 AM
The Rays aren't going to give up top prospects for Dunn most likely, but if they will, why not trade him? People forget, what is Dunn being traded have to do with RESIGNING him? Whether he finishes the final 50 or so games as a Red or a Ray, he's a free agent. Meaning, if we can get some decent prospects via trade for him, why not?

Of course, they would get the comp pick from us if we traded and resigned, but if the players they're offering are more solid than the draft picks we would get be compensation of letting Dunn go, then its a win. The draft is a crapshoot, even in the first round - so if we can bag one of their top prospects, thats an automatic deal. Then deal with the possibility of bring Dunn back after the year. Is that too difficult?

Mutaman
07-31-2008, 06:04 AM
Unreal.

I notice you're an Eric Davis fan.

Eric Davis wasn't 1/4th of the player Dunn is, at his best.... when he was actually on the field.

I seem to recall Davis leading his team to a ring. As we patiently await the end of the dismal "Dunn Era" , would leading your team to a .500 record be too much to ask? I wouldn't bet on it.

Mutaman
07-31-2008, 06:11 AM
If the Reds trade Dunn, I hope to God all of these Dunn hating idiots disappear.

Nobody hates Dunn, he's a Red, we're Red fans. But its clear we can't win with the guy and it's time for a change. I'm tired of losing. 7 years of this stuff is enough.

Mutaman
07-31-2008, 06:13 AM
12 homeruns in July (so far)....

I would think that would be a REDS' record for homeruns in July.

All of which led the Reds to the amazing record of 12 wins and 13 losses in July. Par for the course.

Trace's Daddy
07-31-2008, 08:02 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8398172/?MSNHPHMA

Teams should still consider trading for Dunn by Ken Rosenthal
Ken Rosenthal has been the senior baseball writer for FOXSports.com since Aug. 2005. He appears weekly on the FSN Baseball Report and MLB on FOX.


Updated: July 31, 2008, 1:29 AM EST 4 comments add this RSS blog email print We all know about Adam Dunn's deficiencies. His below-average defense. His low batting average. His high strikeout rate.

Well, Dunn took over the major-league home-run lead Wednesday night by hitting Nos. 31 and 32 in the Reds' 9-5 victory over the Astros.

To repeat: Nobody wants this guy?

The Rays might — they contacted the Reds about Dunn on Wednesday — but their preference is for a right-handed hitter such as the Pirates' Jason Bay.

The Diamondbacks also made a run at Dunn, according to SI.com, but the interest from other clubs appears minimal, putting the Reds in a potentially tenuous position.

If the Reds fail to trade Dunn, then decline to sign him long-term, the only way they could get compensatory draft picks for him would be if they offered him salary arbitration as a free agent.

If Dunn accepted, he would stand to gain a significant raise from his current $13 million salary, likely zooming past $15 million.

Dunn, 28, would not accept a one-year deal with the Reds if he had substantial multiyear offers from other clubs — the more likely scenario, given the shortage of power in the sport.

Nobody wants this guy? Impossible.

Dunn is one of only 10 hitters since 1947 with a career on-base percentage above .380 and slugging percentage above .520 through his age 28 season.


How Dunn stacks upName Season Games OBP SLG
Adam Dunn 2008 1076 .381 .523
Albert Pujols 2008 1185 .423 .619
Vladimir Guerrero 2004 1160 .390 .589
Alex Rodriguez 2004 1430 .381 .574
Barry Bonds 1993 1169 .391 .526
Frank Robinson 1964 1346 .390 .556
Mickey Mantle 1960 1399 .422 .568
Eddie Mathews 1960 1330 .385 .549
Willie Mays 1959 1065 .391 .590
Duke Snider 1955 1135 .383 .552
The list, compiled by STATS LLC, consists of players who appeared in a minimum of 1,000 games, with their ages determined on July 1 of the given season (see table at right).

jimbo
07-31-2008, 08:45 AM
Nobody hates Dunn, he's a Red, we're Red fans. But its clear we can't win with the guy and it's time for a change. I'm tired of losing. 7 years of this stuff is enough.

Yeah, Dunn is the reason why the Reds have been losing during all this time. :rolleyes:

ChatterRed
07-31-2008, 09:08 AM
Trade him. Get some prospects. Then re-sign him in the offseason. ;)

schmidty622
07-31-2008, 09:12 AM
Id take Chad Tracy for Dunn right now, providing he has more than 1 year left on his deal. He could hit 25-30 HR in GABP, and probably drive in a good amount of runs depending on where Dusty had him hit.

ChatterRed
07-31-2008, 09:15 AM
Micah Owings was just sent back down to the minors. I'd be interested in him.

I(heart)Freel
07-31-2008, 09:45 AM
Micah Owings for Dunn, and then turn around and trade Homer to Texas for Salty. Plus whatever they get for Junior. All that and some payroll to play with... I think 2009 could be interesting. Which is how to view today: as the beginning of the 2009 pre-season.

bounty37h
07-31-2008, 10:36 AM
Whatcha gonna do... when Adam Dunn's hall of fame plaque, runs willllld on you?

/Hulk Hogan voice

Im going to do whatever the heck I feel like doing, cause if that happens the world is ending anyways, so can get away with whatever :)

bounty37h
07-31-2008, 10:40 AM
In could go either way, but for me not to lose complete faith in this organization, they must deal for a catcher, preferably Saltalamacchia. It would be a deal which wouldn't break apart the team just like the FO wants, so the chance to reach their magical goal of above .500 could still be attainable. The only guy on the ML roster we might lose is Homer, and I will gladly part with him for a 23 yr olf offensive minded catcher who can be here for many years. I'm sick of the LaRue's, Ross', Valentine's, and Bako's, I want someone who can at least do something above the average catcher.

Would Homer and Carlos Fisher be enough?

While Salty can swing the bat better obviously, way better, but he is no upgrade behind the dish over any of those guys. He is, at best, an average catcher, and thats on his good days.

BLEEDS
07-31-2008, 10:54 AM
I only wish that was possible. Trading Griffey could be the best thing that happens to the Reds, even if it means eating his salary for the rest of the season


Would be nice, but Griffey can not be traded. He has a full no trade, and has made it clear that he will not accept a trade no matter what. Sorry.


That's simply not true. He has said he'd be interested in the Rays because it's close to his home.

Ain't gonna happen because nobody wants him. But certainly an option.


Just reporting what I read on Hal's Blog. I have no idea if he is right. But you are right, the Rays don't want him, or at least they shouldn't.

This is why none of us work for MLB, let alone the Reds.

The ChiSox have wanted Griffey since 2005. Looks like they are going to get him.

Bittersweet to say the least.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

redhawk61
07-31-2008, 11:01 AM
While Salty can swing the bat better obviously, way better, but he is no upgrade behind the dish over any of those guys. He is, at best, an average catcher, and thats on his good days.
agreed, its just when was the last time the Reds had a catcher who could do at least one thing above average, between defense and offense, instead of being below average in both categories?

BUTLER REDSFAN
07-31-2008, 11:07 AM
OK-take this with a grain of salt..I know someone who knows someone who know someone...that sorta thing..but I am hearing possbly Dunn for Connor Jackson from Arizona.

Ahhhorsepoo
07-31-2008, 11:12 AM
OK-take this with a grain of salt..I know someone who knows someone who know someone...that sorta thing..but I am hearing possibly Dunn for Connor Jackson from Arizona.

They already offered chad tracy straight up and we turned it down..

I want a ruggiano for dunn from the rays deal.. like YESTERDAY..

Grande Donkey
07-31-2008, 11:19 AM
OK-take this with a grain of salt..I know someone who knows someone who know someone...that sorta thing..but I am hearing possbly Dunn for Connor Jackson from Arizona.
If that deal is available then you have to take it. I'd even be willing to throw in a little sweetener for them. I'll believe it when I see it though.

levydl
07-31-2008, 11:21 AM
How many winning seasons have the Reds had with Dunn?

Exactly.

Time to start selling off, rebuilding and acquiring youth. You don't build rosters on veterans, you build it on the young guys and plug in vets to round out it all out.

How many winning seasons have we had with Harang?

Ship him out too, huh?

Correlation vs. causation. Look it up.

By the way, since when is 28 old?

levydl
07-31-2008, 11:31 AM
Sorry, but I disagree. Dunn is a great player, but Davis -- when healthy -- was an all-around ballplayer. The key phrase was "when healthy." I spent a lot of summers watching both guys. While their style of play is quite different, I'd take a healthy Davis in a heartbeat over Dunn.

Yeah, and I'd take a healthy Bo Jackson over Walter Payton. But it's a moot point, since Jackson was never healthy and Payton always was.

I loved ED. He was my favorite player growing up. I met him once when I was 7 or 8 and he was as nice as could be - talked to me for a few minutes, signed my Reds hat - it was probably the best day of my life at that point. He was electric at the plate, on the basepaths, and in the field. A great talent. He messed up a lot of kids swings back then, as we all tried to hold our hands low and do that hitch like he did, but only someone with his quick hands and wrists could do it. Those were fun times to grow up a Reds fan.

But he could never stay healthy. He was just incredibly unlucky in that regard (maybe his slight frame had something to do with it too). I mean, he got cancer while he was playing. Lacerated a spleen diving for a ball in the WS, for crying out loud. He never played in more than 135 games in a year for us. Played over 100 games only 8 times in his 16-17 year career. Never got 500 ABs in a season.

So, yeah, when healthy, Davis was amazing. But he was rarely healthy, and that has to count against him, even though it was largely out of his control. Dunn, I think, has tons of talent (different than ED), probably not as much pure talent as ED, but he's always healthy and he always puts up big numbers.

levydl
07-31-2008, 11:37 AM
I seem to recall Davis leading his team to a ring. As we patiently await the end of the dismal "Dunn Era" , would leading your team to a .500 record be too much to ask? I wouldn't bet on it.

Yep, all by himself, Davis led us to a ring. No help from Larkin, Paul O, Sabo, Duncan, Hatcher, Rijo, Browning, Jackson, Armstrong, Dibble, Charlton, Myers.

ChatterRed
07-31-2008, 11:47 AM
I think ED had like 1% body fat. LOL. Just kidding. He did have some ridiculous low amount of bodyfat, though.......I remember it being talked about. Possibly contributed to him being injury-prone.

Ahhhorsepoo
07-31-2008, 11:56 AM
sorry but no matter what.. any guy who thinks adam dunn was 1/2 as good as a healthy ED has no idea what they are talking about..

BLEEDS
07-31-2008, 12:37 PM
So, yeah, when healthy, Davis was amazing. But he was rarely healthy, and that has to count against him, even though it was largely out of his control. Dunn, I think, has tons of talent (different than ED), probably not as much pure talent as ED, but he's always healthy and he always puts up big numbers.

I don't know if I'd say Dunn always is healthy, but he always plays, even when hurt. He was hurt for most of 2006 and some of 2007, but still managed to put up close to his average of 40/100/100/100...

I think what you are seeing now is what Dunn is capable of doing when he's 95% healthy - he was ailing in July obviously, but played through it.

It's amazing that you can pencil in a guy for 155+ games a year, expect 40/100/100/100, is top HR and BB guy for the last 3/4 years in all of MLB, is one of 10 hitters since 1947 with a career on-base percentage above .380 and slugging percentage above .520 through his age 28 season, and he catches this much grief and is SOOO undervalued it's almost sickening.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Grande Donkey
07-31-2008, 02:59 PM
ESPN said that the Rays were no longer interested in Dunn.

Trace's Daddy
07-31-2008, 04:23 PM
It's amazing that you can pencil in a guy for 155+ games a year, expect 40/100/100/100, is top HR and BB guy for the last 3/4 years in all of MLB, is one of 10 hitters since 1947 with a career on-base percentage above .380 and slugging percentage above .520 through his age 28 season, and he catches this much grief and is SOOO undervalued it's almost sickening.



EXACTLY!:beerme:

realistic
08-01-2008, 04:37 AM
All the Dunn worship is why i quit coming to this board. Its depressing to see a once proud franchise worship this guy.

Hes a nice guy and smiles a lot and cracks jokes. Congrats! This generation of fans has a big brother or drinking buddy or lovable nephew to cheer into mediocrity!

OPS OBP whatever - he aint a baseball player.

realistic
08-01-2008, 04:54 AM
and quit patting teh guy on the back for walks

he walks because the Reds stink and the hitters behind him dont get hits either. so why would a pitcher play with the risk of the hr? in the logn ru na successful team wins by putting together enough hits before making 3 outs in an inning. its simple. strikeouts kill an inning. who cares when he hits a 2 run shot and lose 5-2 because the team struck out 13 times and never could put a rally together...blah ill quit now

cya in another 2 yrs

improbus
08-01-2008, 04:34 PM
Jon Heyman from cnnsi.com listed his biggest winners and losers from the trade deadline.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/08/01/winners.losers/index.html?eref=T1

He listed Adam Dunn as the 4th biggest loser.
Per Heyman:
"4. Adam Dunn. The man has a major-league leading 32 home runs (not to mention an MLB-best 198 over the past five years), yet apparently no one likes him much more than Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi does. This can't be great news for Dunn as he's about to hit the free-agent market."

My conclusion: Good news for Cincy. Maybe this means he will be looking for somewhere around $12 million and not around $16-18 million per year.

757690
08-01-2008, 04:58 PM
Jon Heyman from cnnsi.com listed his biggest winners and losers from the trade deadline.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/08/01/winners.losers/index.html?eref=T1

He listed Adam Dunn as the 4th biggest loser.
Per Heyman:
"4. Adam Dunn. The man has a major-league leading 32 home runs (not to mention an MLB-best 198 over the past five years), yet apparently no one likes him much more than Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi does. This can't be great news for Dunn as he's about to hit the free-agent market."

My conclusion: Good news for Cincy. Maybe this means he will be looking for somewhere around $12 million and not around $16-18 million per year.

Add in the fact that Manny will be a free agent next year. That will move Dunn even further down team's list of powers hitters. Manny is represented by Dr. Evil (Boras), who likes to wait out negotiations, which means that a lot of teams will wait until they know if they got Manny before bidding on Dunn. That should lower his price even further.
If the Reds want him back, he should be cheaper than expected, which is one reason not to offer a deal during the season.

gilpdawg
08-01-2008, 05:03 PM
OPS OBP whatever - he aint a baseball player.
So tell me, dear genius, what IS a baseball player?

757690
08-01-2008, 06:49 PM
So tell me, dear genius, what IS a baseball player?

Reminds me of the John Kruk story. He was at a restaurant, eating and drinking like, well John Kruk. A woman at a table next to him was disgusted at how much he was eating and drinking, leaned over and said, "I thought you were an athlete." Kruk responded, "Hey Lady, I ain't an athlete, I'm a baseball player."

realistic
08-01-2008, 08:10 PM
Reminds me of the John Kruk story. He was at a restaurant, eating and drinking like, well John Kruk. A woman at a table next to him was disgusted at how much he was eating and drinking, leaned over and said, "I thought you were an athlete." Kruk responded, "Hey Lady, I ain't an athlete, I'm a baseball player."

realistic
08-01-2008, 08:21 PM
You kind of reinforce my point on accident. John Kruk in his healthy prime was maybe 4 time more valuable to a baseball team. He even won a world series with a team of ballplayers. On paper the 93 (i think) Phillies didnt ooh and ahh folks but they played winning baseball. You guys crack me up - you can grasp the concept of a pitchers 'makeup' but you can not understand what it means to be a ballplayer on a good 'ballclub' . Junior is a ballplayer. The 91 reds were a good 'ballclub'

Dunn is a beast. No denying hes a physical specimen. He hits the ball hard. So did Rob Deer. Pete Incaviglia. There are dozens of 25 yr old guys across america that could hit 50 hrs and k 200 times in 600 ab's if they had followed the same career path as Adam Dunn and wound up in a city desperate for a great white hope to believe in. Just like there are a handful of guys playing streetball in NYC that could win the NBA dunk contest. Hes far from a special player and the inability to trade him shows just how much GMs care about a one dimensional player.

LouisvilleCARDS
08-01-2008, 08:38 PM
I think the thing with Dunn is this: he really is a good baseball player. Not many will argue that. But you look at his stats and constantly think how much BETTER the guy could be. I understand he's a big guy, but looking at his stats, his batting average vs. his walks vs. his strikeouts vs. his power - you wonder if the guy spent the offseason with a new strategy of hitting the cardio a little more and the bulking a little less, what kind of player he could transform into in the field and at the plate.

I mean, he's a big guy, you can tell it. But you can tell it that guy is not 100% muscle. Have no idea what his body fat percentage is, but imagine if the guy went to work in the offseason like a machine, jumping rope and doing cardio, would it turn things around a bit? I mean, set a goal of losing 10-15 pounds in the offseason and get a little more ripped and a little more speed for next season. If he loses soem power and starts hitting 400 foot bombs instead of 450, so be it. It's still a HR.

I think the problem with Dunn is just that. He's good, but you constantly ask yourself how this guy can have such a good eye to get walks, but so many strikeouts. How a guy who can have so much talent, how much better he could be if the guy went on the Jerry Rice training regiment in the offseason, hardcore.

BLEEDS
08-02-2008, 02:42 PM
The 91 reds were a good 'ballclub'



The 91 Reds sucked.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
08-02-2008, 02:47 PM
I think the thing with Dunn is this: he really is a good baseball player. Not many will argue that. But you look at his stats and constantly think how much BETTER the guy could be. I understand he's a big guy, but looking at his stats, his batting average vs. his walks vs. his strikeouts vs. his power - you wonder if the guy spent the offseason with a new strategy of hitting the cardio a little more and the bulking a little less, what kind of player he could transform into in the field and at the plate.

I mean, he's a big guy, you can tell it. But you can tell it that guy is not 100% muscle. Have no idea what his body fat percentage is, but imagine if the guy went to work in the offseason like a machine, jumping rope and doing cardio, would it turn things around a bit? I mean, set a goal of losing 10-15 pounds in the offseason and get a little more ripped and a little more speed for next season. If he loses soem power and starts hitting 400 foot bombs instead of 450, so be it. It's still a HR.

I think the problem with Dunn is just that. He's good, but you constantly ask yourself how this guy can have such a good eye to get walks, but so many strikeouts. How a guy who can have so much talent, how much better he could be if the guy went on the Jerry Rice training regiment in the offseason, hardcore.

He has a HUGE strike-zone, and a big swing, that's why his propensity for K's is there. It's a nod to his SKILL that he has such a good eye.

10-15 lbs isn't going to help that, in fact it will probably only hurt.

The guy works out all the time, and his workout buddy is Jay Bruce. Jerry Rice? Why in the world would a 6'6 275 MLB Power hitter need to work out like an NFL Wide Receiver?!?!
You guys think you know what it takes to be a baseball player, you have no idea.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

4-28
08-02-2008, 03:48 PM
You kind of reinforce my point on accident. John Kruk in his healthy prime was maybe 4 time more valuable to a baseball team. He even won a world series with a team of ballplayers. On paper the 93 (i think) Phillies didnt ooh and ahh folks but they played winning baseball. You guys crack me up - you can grasp the concept of a pitchers 'makeup' but you can not understand what it means to be a ballplayer on a good 'ballclub' . Junior is a ballplayer. The 91 reds were a good 'ballclub'

Dunn is a beast. No denying hes a physical specimen. He hits the ball hard. So did Rob Deer. Pete Incaviglia. There are dozens of 25 yr old guys across america that could hit 50 hrs and k 200 times in 600 ab's if they had followed the same career path as Adam Dunn and wound up in a city desperate for a great white hope to believe in. Just like there are a handful of guys playing streetball in NYC that could win the NBA dunk contest. Hes far from a special player and the inability to trade him shows just how much GMs care about a one dimensional player.

So much in this post, so little time...

Your choice of John Kruk is ironic. John Kruk had a career 133 OPS+. Adam Dunn's OPS+ is 131. OPS+ corrects for era and ballpark. Both play less than gold glove caliber defense at non-premium defensive positions. So essentially, they are the same player thus far in terms of offensive worth and defensive abilities. If you're going to try and sell me on John Kruk's "leadership" abilities making him four times better than Dunn, I'm going to tell you you're out of your mind.

On to the next point:

Dozens of 25 year olds who could hit 50 homers, huh? You do realize in the history of the game, there have been right around 30 players to hit 50 homeruns in a season? Your argument is the antithesis of you name.

And don't give me some speech about how it's because Dunn swings for the fences everytime and they didn't. Adam Dunn hits homers because he's a big man and when he makes solid contact the ball goes far. If you want to see someone who hits homers solely because he swings for the fences and as a result it actually hurts his offensive game, I'll point you to one Mr. Brandon Phillips.

BLEEDS
08-02-2008, 07:22 PM
So much in this post, so little time...

Your choice of John Kruk is ironic. John Kruk had a career 133 OPS+. Adam Dunn's OPS+ is 131. OPS+ corrects for era and ballpark. Both play less than gold glove caliber defense at non-premium defensive positions. So essentially, they are the same player thus far in terms of offensive worth and defensive abilities. If you're going to try and sell me on John Kruk's "leadership" abilities making him four times better than Dunn, I'm going to tell you you're out of your mind.

On to the next point:

Dozens of 25 year olds who could hit 50 homers, huh? You do realize in the history of the game, there have been right around 30 players to hit 50 homeruns in a season? Your argument is the antithesis of you name.

And don't give me some speech about how it's because Dunn swings for the fences everytime and they didn't. Adam Dunn hits homers because he's a big man and when he makes solid contact the ball goes far. If you want to see someone who hits homers solely because he swings for the fences and as a result it actually hurts his offensive game, I'll point you to one Mr. Brandon Phillips.

:beerme::beerme:

:clap::clap:

:notworthy:notworthy

PEACE

-BLEEDS

levydl
08-02-2008, 09:20 PM
You kind of reinforce my point on accident. John Kruk in his healthy prime was maybe 4 time more valuable to a baseball team. He even won a world series with a team of ballplayers. On paper the 93 (i think) Phillies didnt ooh and ahh folks but they played winning baseball. You guys crack me up - you can grasp the concept of a pitchers 'makeup' but you can not understand what it means to be a ballplayer on a good 'ballclub' . Junior is a ballplayer. The 91 reds were a good 'ballclub'

Dunn is a beast. No denying hes a physical specimen. He hits the ball hard. So did Rob Deer. Pete Incaviglia. There are dozens of 25 yr old guys across america that could hit 50 hrs and k 200 times in 600 ab's if they had followed the same career path as Adam Dunn and wound up in a city desperate for a great white hope to believe in. Just like there are a handful of guys playing streetball in NYC that could win the NBA dunk contest. Hes far from a special player and the inability to trade him shows just how much GMs care about a one dimensional player.

John Kruk never won a World Series. The Phillies lost to Toronto. Joe Carter hit a somewhat famous walkoff HR.

25 year olds who hit 50 HRs:
Ruth
Foxx
Mize
Kiner
Mays
Mantle
Prince Fielder

Rob Deer hit 30 HRs twice. Career .324 OBP (.360 high), .220 BA (.252 high), .442 SLG (.547 high), .766 OPS (.884 high).

Pete Incaviglia hit 30 HRs once (on the nose). Career .310 OBP (.332 high), .246 BA (.274 high), .448 SLG (.540 high), .758 OPS (.848 high).

Adam Dunn has hit 40 HRs 4 times and has hit more than 30 already this year. Career .381 OBP (.400 high), .248 BA (.266 high), .523 SLG (.569 high), .904 OPS (.957 high).

Good examples.