PDA

View Full Version : NBA fans' opinions wanted.



texasdave
07-30-2008, 04:17 PM
According to CNNSI.com the Houston Rockets have acquired Ron Artest from the Sacramento Kings. Just curious how NBA followers would critique this trade. Opinions wanted.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/07/29/artest.traded.rockets.ap/index.html

All I know is whenever the Rockets played the Kings Ron Artest was a beast.

How serious of a contender is this starting five?

G-Rafer Alston
G-Tracy McGrady
C-Yao Ming
F-Shane Battier
F-Ron Artest

Joseph
07-30-2008, 04:22 PM
Are there any NBA fans anymore? ;)

Kidding TD.

It's a solid 5, you [assuming you are a Rockets fan] gave up nothing to get a Chris Henry-esque player. He has talent and brings a lot of headaches. No reason they can't be a contender to move deep into the playoffs next year, so long as Ming doesn't go down again. A lot rests on his wide shoulders.

Caveat Emperor
07-30-2008, 04:24 PM
I'll root for any team that has Rafer Alston (aka And-1 Baller "Skip to my Lou") on the roster.

NJReds
07-30-2008, 04:37 PM
Good deal. Not many teams will be able to score more than 85 against Houston. That's some defensive team.

cincrazy
07-30-2008, 04:37 PM
I think the Rockets are set to go far. They are an extremely deep team. Battier and Artest at the forward positions, Luis Scola, Carl Landry, etc. at the forward spot, Mutumbo to back up Yao, a superstar in T-Mac. The point guard position worries me a bit, but Alston played well last year. If they could find someone else to complement him (which Bobby Jackson was supposed to do, but didn't really work out) then they will be a force to be reckoned with. The key to this team is health. If they're healthy, they're right there

KoryMac5
07-30-2008, 08:24 PM
Looking at that starting 5, if Yao and TMac stay healthy Houston could win this thing. They have a solid bench and with the addition of Artest they will be a very good defensive club. Like cincrazy said I would be worried about pg as Alston runs hot and cold.

West Conf.
1. Spurs- Just out of respect
2. New Orleans- Paul and company
3. Lakers- Kobe and company
4. Houston- If they stay healthy
5. Dallas/Suns- Both of these teams are getting older with additions of Shaq and Kidd

MaineRed
07-30-2008, 09:49 PM
You forgot Utah. Lost in the coference finals to SA two years ago and ran into the Lakers this past year. Utah is young and talented (Deron Williams, Carlos Boozer). They are no worse than the 3rd best team going into next season, IMO. They also have a terrific coach.

Houston is going to be good but they already were. They won 22 in a row during one stretch. And that was without Yao Ming. Now they have Yao and Artest and didn't have to give up anything to get them. Are they going to win 44 in a row now? I don't blame them for trying to improve, it is the right thing to do but I don't see a move like this pushing them over these other teams who seem to have those intanglibles that you need to have. Houston just seems to be missing something. T-Mac has never even won a play-off series before. And you know he or Yao will go down with some injury. I like Houston but I still think they will have to fight like crazy just to get homecourt in the first round (4 seed or better). Wouldn't surprise me to see them win 50+ games and come in around 6. Artest will have an impact but it won't be that big in terms of wins.

KoryMac5
07-30-2008, 09:55 PM
You forgot Utah. Lost in the coference finals to SA two years ago and ran into the Lakers this past year. Utah is young and talented (Deron Williams, Carlos Boozer). They are no worse than the 3rd best team going into next season, IMO. They also have a terrific coach.

Houston is going to be good but they already were. They won 22 in a row during one stretch. And that was without Yao Ming. Now they have Yao and Artest and didn't have to give up anything to get them. Are they going to win 44 in a row now? I don't blame them for trying to improve, it is the right thing to do but I don't see a move like this pushing them over these other teams who seem to have those intanglibles that you need to have. Houston just seems to be missing something. T-Mac has never even won a play-off series before. And you know he or Yao will go down with some injury. I like Houston but I still think they will have to fight like crazy just to get homecourt in the first round (4 seed or better). Wouldn't surprise me to see them win 50+ games and come in around 6. Artest will have an impact but it won't be that big in terms of wins.


I like Utah esp at home, I guess they are easy to forget about. I still think they need something more than Okur inside though. Portland may suprise people

MaineRed
07-30-2008, 10:49 PM
I don't disagree. Matt Harpring and Kyle Korever essentially give them what Okur does. A better compliment to Boozer would really make them tough. But then again the NBA is pretty short on decent big men. The Lakers made the finals with two girls playing in the paint. There literally are about 2 big men in the league who are willing to get dirty, know how to rebound, can catch the ball, can finish with ease when left wide open, and make 70% of their free throws. And I don't even know who those two are.

Boston Red
07-30-2008, 11:14 PM
Houston might finally be good enough to get out of the first round...maybe. When you've got to get through one of San Antonio, New Orleans, Utah, LAL, Phoenix or Dallas in all likelihood, it'd going to be pretty damned tough.

improbus
07-30-2008, 11:16 PM
They still don't have a true PG.

GoReds33
07-31-2008, 09:33 AM
I agree with a few of the previous posters, it all depends on who's healthy.

That being said, if they can find a Rajon Rondo type, they would be set to make a huge run.

Unassisted
07-31-2008, 10:02 AM
IMO, the Rockets are overpaying for Brent Barry.

The Spurs are going to be younger next season. I think their biggest worry is whether Ginobili will be healthy coming out of the Olympics.

TeamSelig
07-31-2008, 11:04 PM
They will be amazing... Just think the Kobes, Lebrons, etc. will be guarded by Battier or Artest for the entire game. :) Good luck with that.

More importantly from lock down defense, Artest is a pretty good scorer so now Tmac won't be forced to score at a crazy rate. As long as Artest doesn't explode, they should be pretty well set.

And if he does explode, he is a FA after the season, where they will probably rebuild if they cannot win anything in the playoffs anyhow.

NorrisHopper30
07-31-2008, 11:53 PM
According to CNNSI.com the Houston Rockets have acquired Ron Artest from the Sacramento Kings. Just curious how NBA followers would critique this trade. Opinions wanted.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/07/29/artest.traded.rockets.ap/index.html

All I know is whenever the Rockets played the Kings Ron Artest was a beast.

How serious of a contender is this starting five?

G-Rafer Alston
G-Tracy McGrady
C-Yao Ming
F-Shane Battier
F-Ron Artest

One thing I notice about this starting lineup is top to bottom those are upper tier defenders with the best being Battier and Artest.

They will be a playoff team for sure, i'm not sure if it'll boost them to a playoff series win though - remember Tmac is on the team :D.

In all seriousness, the Rockets would be consistently better if they stopped getting injured, I hope it falls into place for them this year for Tmacs' sake.

Good deal IMO, even though I think Donte Greene is a hell of a talent. Him, Kevin Martin, Jason Thompson, Spencer Hawes, Francisco Garcia and Sean Singletary (underrated IMO) are a great young core for the Kings. Obviously, they are a few years away still..but they do have a bright future.

Unassisted
08-01-2008, 09:17 AM
Yao and Artest had a phone conversation to patch things up after Yao expressed concern about adding one of the principals in the famous Detroit brawl to the team.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/5918737.html

improbus
08-01-2008, 09:30 AM
Ron Ron's comments about still being "Ghetto" were priceless. That might have been my favorite quote of the last few years. Somehow, I can picture steam pouring out of David Stern's ears. Good times...

BTW, this is the same kind of thing that Rednecks/Hillbillies say all the time... You can't take the "country" out of me.

gm
08-01-2008, 07:12 PM
Portland may suprise people

Shh!

(The Blazers like flying under the radar...watch out for Rudy Fernandez on team Spain)

Artest is a beast. He's a great defender but his shot selection is like his personaility: erratic

Adelman is a good coach with a veteran club, but he couldn't seem to win the big one with Sac-Town or Portland

MasonBuzz3
08-02-2008, 01:45 AM
I would love that starting 5...if they werent in the West. A good 5 but the West is loaded, they are going to need some scoring. Just another reason that I am glad the Cavs are in the East. In the East if you go get an Artest, you are a conference favorite....but in the West you are just another team

Kingspoint
08-04-2008, 10:05 PM
There are very few coaches that have the ability to get the most out of Artest and Rick Adelman is one of them. It's a great trade for both clubs.

Kingspoint
08-04-2008, 10:06 PM
Adelman is a good coach with a veteran club, but he couldn't seem to win the big one with Sac-Town or Portland

He did, but Donaghey would have none of it.

Revering4Blue
08-05-2008, 08:24 PM
Spot-on analysis.


When the Houston Rockets make a move, I pay extra attention. With Daryl Morey as general manager and top analysts Sam Hinkie, Ed Kupfer and Eli Witus all on the payroll, the Rockets make use of statistical analysis in a manner unlike any other NBA team. That has played a role in unconventional moves like taking lightly-regarded Carl Landry with the top pick of the second round of last year's draft. In terms of boldness, that decision pales in comparison to the one Houston agreed to last week. The Houston Chronicle reported Tuesday that the Rockets agreed to send backup guard Bobby Jackson, rookie Donté Greene, next year's first-round pick and cash to Sacramento in exchange for talented but volatile forward Ron Artest in a deal that cannot be completed until Aug. 14 because of the inclusion of the recently-signed Greene.

While dealing for Artest is surprising, it's not a move that reflects Houston's use of statistical analysis, at least superficially. The numbers merely confirm Artest's reputation as one of the league's most valuable players when properly focused and motivated. I was a little surprised, in looking up Artest's adjusted plus-minus numbers, how consistently he has rated near the NBA's leaders. In 2005-06, numbers compiled by David Lewin put Artest sixth in the league in terms of his on-court impact adjusted for the quality of his teammates and opponents. Last year, BasketballValue.com rated Artest as 4.84 points better than average per 100 possessions, his worst single-season rating dating back to 2004-05 but still among the NBA's top 40 players.

Despite that performance, the Kings have been looking to move Artest since last year's trade deadline. Artest wasn't a huge problem for Sacramento last year, but he was a nuisance, whether in his occasional ill-begotten attempts to control the team's offense or his recent public flip-flopping on whether he wanted to stay with the Kings after deciding not to opt out of the final year of his contract.

How will Artest fit in Houston? That figures to be one of next season's most fascinating and entertaining storylines. A smaller role--whether he starts as an undersized power forward or comes off the bench, and deferring to Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming as the go-to options when all three players are on the floor--could prove challenging for Artest.

The biggest factor in Houston's favor in terms of making this all work is head coach Rick Adelman, who coached Artest for the second half of the 2005-06 season in Sacramento after a midseason deal with Indiana brought Artest to the Kings. That was one of Artest's happiest and most successful stretches of basketball, and the Kings closed the season 26-14 after posting an 18-24 record prior to the trade.

If Adelman and Artest click as they did with the Kings, it's easy to envision a scenario where in which Artest could be very valuable to the Rockets. Houston has been looking for an offensive leader for its second unit, a role the Rockets hoped another former King, Bonzi Wells, would fill last year. The emergence of rookies Landry and Luis Scola helped give Houston more punch last season, but when either McGrady or Yao is out of the lineup--something the Rockets simply have to accept is going to happen for extended stretches every year--having Artest as a second player capable of creating his own offense could make a big difference.

A focused Artest also gives Adelman options at the end of close games. He can go with last year's starting lineup of Rafer Alston, McGrady, Shane Battier, Scola and Yao, a traditional look. He can put Artest at power forward and match up with smaller, more versatile fours while having two stoppers on the floor. Or he could even slide McGrady to the point for stretches and have both Artest and Battier able to defend on the wings in a lineup where every player is 6'7" or bigger.

Greene was at least a year or two away from contributing for the Rockets, so the only short-term loss in this deal is Jackson. The expectation was that sophomore Aaron Brooks would wrest the role of backup to Alston away from Jackson this season, but having the veteran was a nice fallback option for Adelman. Houston could probably get by with a combination of McGrady, Luther Head and newcomer Brent Barry if need be, but none of those players is a true point guard.

If everything works, the Rockets have the potential to rank amongst the NBA's all-time top defenses next season. Already, Houston has been near the top of the league in Defensive Rating year in and year out, including finishing second behind the Boston Celtics last season. Adding another top-tier defender to the mix will make the Rockets' defense that much stingier. Though I've never believed Artest to be quite as good as his hype at the defensive end, at his best he is as disruptive as anyone in the league at that end of the floor.

At the other end, Artest has the ability to get Houston out of the long scoring droughts that plagued the team during its first-round postseason loss to Utah. It's not a stretch to imagine that with Artest and a healthy Alston, the Rockets would have won that series--even without the injured Yao. This deal moves Houston up slightly in the still-crowded Western Conference pecking order. I'd still call the Lakers and New Orleans the top two teams in the West, but there's scarcely any drop-off to the second tier that includes the Rockets, Utah and San Antonio.

The real beauty of this trade for Houston is that the Rockets are not depending on Artest for their success; he's something of a bonus. If Artest plays or behaves poorly in a game, he'll find himself on the bench. In the long term, Artest has only this final year remaining on his contract. If he doesn't fit in, Houston can simply move on. A veteran point guard and two late first-round draft picks is a small price to pay to take that kind of gamble.

The deal works for the Kings too. The time had come to move on and part ways with Artest, making a trade inevitable. The biggest thing the Kings get out of this deal is the opportunity for their young perimeter players--Kevin Martin, John Salmons and Francisco Garcia--to step into larger roles. Now, Martin is unquestionably the man in Sacramento, a role he's earned with his efficient scoring. Salmons steps into a full-time starting role with Garcia backing up both swing positions.

Given that center Brad Miller is the only veteran player left in Sacramento, it made sense for the Kings to continue to build with youth rather than flip Artest in a challenge trade for a player like Lamar Odom. Could they have done better than Greene and what figures to be a first-round pick in the 20s? Maybe. At the deadline, the talk was Artest for Denver's Linas Kleiza, a superior prospect. Still, the return was good enough not to wait for a better offer to come around.

Greene impressed observers at the NBA Summer League, averaging 22.6 points per game to rank second amongst all scorers. His Pelton Translation numbers were much less impressive. I don't necessarily take that as a huge strike against Greene, because he is awfully young and players with his skill set--long defenders who can stretch the defense by making threes--have historically been very valuable. What the Kings shouldn't expect is immediate contributions. That's acceptable because, in the wake of this deal, Sacramento's goals are long-term in nature.

Kevin Pelton is an author of Basketball Prospectus.

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=395

improbus
08-05-2008, 08:45 PM
Artest is one reason why I think the NBA is more interesting than most of the other sports. In baseball there is very rarely true team play, it only occurs in DP's, and in the pitcher-catcher combo, and so it is easier to have crazy guys on your team. ex. The Red Sox were able to deal with Manny for almost a decade even though he has the maturity of an eight year old. In football, there are so many guys and they are divided into units that only really have to interact on the practice field. In a way, you could see them as two different teams (not to mention special teams). But in basketball, everyone has to work together on both sides o the ball. If you have one malcontent, it throws everything off. One guy can completely sabotage your team or make it great. For example, if Artest has a meltdown, the Rockets may not make the playoffs. If Pacman melts down, the Cowboys cut him and move on. The team dynamic in the NBA is something that none of the other sports can really compare with.