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View Full Version : I think its time to put Bailey back in double A



LouisvilleCARDS
08-01-2008, 08:26 PM
Harang is almost back, its time to send the guy down. He just isn't cutting it. After all the hype, so far the guy has been a total bust. Maybe he needs a new pitching coach and some mechanics change or something, but I can't think being up here and getting rocked constantly is good for the guys mental state, or his arm. Send him back down to double A competition and get the pitching coach on him to find out whats going on. Or maybe just shut him down for the year, and regroup.

Griffey012
08-01-2008, 08:27 PM
Give him The Volquez treatment.

improbus
08-01-2008, 08:29 PM
He should probably just throw the ball over the fence himself and get it over with.

LouisvilleCARDS
08-01-2008, 08:29 PM
Give him The Volquez treatment.

Trade him to Texas for Josh Hamilton? Hey, I'm all for it, just don't think it would happen. :p:

JWP
08-01-2008, 08:31 PM
I say it's about time to trade him while he still has a little value left.

He's been all hype, and hasn't really shown any signs of improvement. And with Dick Pole still around, I can't see him getting much better, to be brutally honest.

Griffey012
08-01-2008, 08:54 PM
Where is Bailey's curveball. It seems like he rarely throws his big duece and is instead throwing a changeup all the time. Dick Pole needs to realize Volquez and Bailey are opposites, Volquez's #2 pitch is a change 3 is a breaker, Bailey's breaker is his 2 and changeup 3. Not to mention Bailey needs to just stop with this so called "slider" and bring down the hammer.

Grande Donkey
08-01-2008, 08:57 PM
Let him pitch the rest of the year in the bigs to see if he can figure it out. It's not like the Reds have anything to play for this year.

Ghosts of 1990
08-01-2008, 09:05 PM
Bailey stinks

schmidty622
08-01-2008, 09:16 PM
I like what the Masset guy has done so far. Maybe being in the NL against the weaker lineups could bode well for him. Maybe he could be an good swing man or if we're lucky an ok #5.

keeganbrick
08-01-2008, 09:33 PM
Teagarden?

steig
08-01-2008, 09:49 PM
Let him pitch the rest of the year in the bigs to see if he can figure it out. It's not like the Reds have anything to play for this year.

I completely agree. Let him know going into the off season that he has to earn a spot in the rotation next spring and he was just getting and education this year with the Reds.

You never know, Pole could be out as the pitching coach and we could get somebody that can work with Bailey and turn him around. The talent is there, he just needs to learn how to use it. He is still young and a lot of pitchers don't develop until 25 - 27. I don't think anybody, other than Bailey, is expecting him to be a dominant #1, HOF level pitcher at this point in his career.

LouisvilleCARDS
08-01-2008, 10:02 PM
If Dave Duncan was pitching coach, chances are Bailey would have a 3.50 ERA and we would be praising a future #1 starter. Look what he constantly does in STL with junk pitchers and turns them int oreasonable to great starters.

Griffey012
08-01-2008, 10:02 PM
I completely agree. Let him know going into the off season that he has to earn a spot in the rotation next spring and he was just getting and education this year with the Reds.

You never know, Pole could be out as the pitching coach and we could get somebody that can work with Bailey and turn him around. The talent is there, he just needs to learn how to use it. He is still young and a lot of pitchers don't develop until 25 - 27. I don't think anybody, other than Bailey, is expecting him to be a dominant #1, HOF level pitcher at this point in his career.

I don't think Bailey is either right now, and it's part of the problem. He looks timid to pitch to every hitter that steps up to the plate. On the plus side, his 2 seam fastball showed good movement tonight, just needs to control it. Its a lot better than the straight as an arrow 4 seamer he threw last year, he needs to stick the 4 seams in the back pocket until he is running it up chest high or above.

Redlegs
08-01-2008, 10:06 PM
I'm all for sending him back down to the farm. It's important to keep in mind, the guy's only 22 years old.

dthomas24
08-01-2008, 11:00 PM
the guy's only 22 years old.

Finally someone gets it!

Check out the first 2 years, and Bailey hasn't even come close to two years worth of starts, of Curt Schilling, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, Randy Johnson, etc. I am by no way saying that Bailey is going to have a career like any of these guys but you can't say he's not based on a handful of starts in his early 20's.

The Cincinnati Sports Attitude strikes again...build em way up, and quickly strike em down!

JR+Rose=G.O.A.T
08-01-2008, 11:42 PM
Like GRANDE DONKEY said let bailey stay up for the rest of the year and get his lumps. like REDLEGS said he is only 22!
send Dick Pole down to double A!

HeatherC1212
08-02-2008, 12:09 AM
Bailey may go back down when Aaron Harang comes back but I bet he comes back up to the main club for September call ups to finish out the season. That would be really good IMO because then they might be able to give the younger guys an extra day off here and there so they can finish the season but not get too many innings on the year. :)

ChatterRed
08-02-2008, 12:47 AM
Trade Bailey to the A's so he can get some good pitching advice. Then in a few years, trade to get him back, when he improves. ;)

BEETTLEBUG
08-02-2008, 04:51 AM
Just get another pitching coach like ROCKIN CHAIR MAN MOZONE.

SarasotaFan
08-02-2008, 10:28 AM
he's garbage. should have thrown him in a package deal with dunn and traded him. he'll never cut it in the big leagues.

ChatterRed
08-02-2008, 11:10 AM
the guy's only 22 years old.


So is Johnny Cueto. And he's not getting hammered this badly. :p:

SarasotaFan
08-02-2008, 11:16 AM
how long will people keep using the "he's only 22 years old" excuse ? next year are you gonna say "he's only 23", "he's only 24" - stop using his age as an excuse. there's other young pitchers out there providing quality starts 80% of the time. he's providing garbage starts 80% of the starts.

move him to the pen. when a team is blowing us out like when he pitches, then throw him in there as the long relief guy and let him wear it the rest of the game.

redsfanmia
08-02-2008, 11:23 AM
how long will people keep using the "he's only 22 years old" excuse ? next year are you gonna say "he's only 23", "he's only 24" - stop using his age as an excuse. there's other young pitchers out there providing quality starts 80% of the time. he's providing garbage starts 80% of the starts.

move him to the pen. when a team is blowing us out like when he pitches, then throw him in there as the long relief guy and let him wear it the rest of the game.

You should be a pitching coach. How many pitchers are successfull in the bigs at 22?

SarasotaFan
08-02-2008, 12:03 PM
You should be a pitching coach. How many pitchers are successfull in the bigs at 22?
how many of them have done well enough in AAA to earn a promotion or been hyped up enough like bailey ? there's a reason why there aren't many 22 year old pitchers in the major leagues.

bailey was rushed because he continued to have dominant success (before this year), but now his success has turned to failure.

ChatterRed
08-02-2008, 12:10 PM
Lincecum (San Fran) is 24 and has been starting in the majors since he was 23. Doubt I need to post HIS stats.

Yusmeiro Petit (Arizona) is 23 and has been pitching in the majors for 3 years. As a 22 year old, he had a mid - 4.00 e.r.a. and went 3-4 as a starter with a WHIP of 1.33. He has an e.r.a of 2.55 this year.

Ubaldo Jimenez (Colorado) is 24 and has been pitching in the majors for 3 years with good results. Career e.r.a. of 3.85.

Manual Corpus (Colorado) is 25 and has been pitching in the majors for 3 years with good results. In 32 IP (as a 22 year old) had an e.r.a. of 3.62.

Aaron Cook (Colorado) at age 23 posted a 4.54 e.r.a. in 35 innings.

Jonathan Broxton (Dodgers) at age 22 posted a 2.59 e.r.a. in 76 innings. Still pitching well as a 24 year old.

Chad Billingsley (Dodgers) is currently 24, but at age 22 posted a 3.80 e.r.a. and as a starter went 7-4.

Clayton Kershaw (Dodgers) is currently 20 years old, has started 11 games, is 1-3 with a 4.02 e.r.a.

Greg Maddux (Padres), when he was 22 years old, he pitched 249 innings, went 18-8 and had an e.r.a of 3.18.

Cla Meredith (Padres), currently 25, but when he was 23, he pitched 50 innings, and had an e.r.a. of 1.07.

Jake Peavy (Padres), when he was 22, he went 12-11 and had an e.r.a. of 4.11 while pitching 194 innings.

Matt Cain (San Fran) is currently 23. When he was 21, he started 31 games, went 13-12, pitched 190 innings, and had an e.r.a of 4.14. Still pitching well.

Kevin Correia (San Fran) is currently 28, but when he was 23, he started 7 games, went 3-1 with a 3.66 e.r.a.

Barry Zito (San Fran) is currently 30, but when he was 22, he started 14 games, went 7-4 with a 2.75 e.r.a.

I have just gone through the National League West and found 14 examples of success at age 22 or 23, and all of these pitchers are still pitching. If I go through the entire major leagues, team by team, I could very possibly find 14 examples in each of the 6 divisions equalling 84 players (possibly) or 84 examples.

The point is, Homer isn't showing anything. Doesn't mean he's washed up. But all of these examples, some of them very good players, showed they deserved to be in the majors right away. And let's not forget that Homer had a chance even last season as a 21 year old. In researching most of these examples, none of them had 2 bad seasons to start their careers, and Homer has.

DTCromer
08-02-2008, 12:26 PM
Finally someone gets it!

Check out the first 2 years, and Bailey hasn't even come close to two years worth of starts, of Curt Schilling, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, Randy Johnson, etc. I am by no way saying that Bailey is going to have a career like any of these guys but you can't say he's not based on a handful of starts in his early 20's.

The Cincinnati Sports Attitude strikes again...build em way up, and quickly strike em down!

Has he improved at all?

ChatterRed
08-02-2008, 08:32 PM
Too funny. I shut all the "he's only 22 years old" posters up with my 14 examples of 22 and 23 year old pitchers who succeeded.

Funny.

kpresidente
08-03-2008, 11:06 AM
Too funny. I shut all the "he's only 22 years old" posters up with my 14 examples of 22 and 23 year old pitchers who succeeded.

I could come up with 100 that weren't successful yet, but why waste my time on such an obvious point?

kpresidente
08-03-2008, 11:07 AM
So is Johnny Cueto. And he's not getting hammered this badly. :p:

Volquez did.

ChatterRed
08-03-2008, 04:30 PM
Not many examples of pitchers getting hammered for 2 years early in their career and them becoming great pitchers. I'm sure there are a few, but there are more stories of success at age 21, 22, 23 laying the groundwork for a good/great career.

Bailey is nothing but a 4 or 5 starter.........and it amazes me how defensive people on this board get about him.

I'd trade him in a heartbeat for some good return, but that opportunity probably has passed.

kpresidente
08-03-2008, 08:51 PM
Bailey is nothing but a 4 or 5 starter.........and it amazes me how defensive people on this board get about him.
Why not talk about baseball instead of talking about everybody else on the boards like a little brat? It's annoying and ruins the conversation.

Anyway, that doesn't characterize Bailey at all.

He's either going a #1/#2 or he's going to wash out of the league. His command is erratic and his velocity is all over the place. But the tools are there, at least.

ChatterRed
08-03-2008, 10:43 PM
Why not talk about baseball instead of talking about everybody else on the boards like a little brat? It's annoying and ruins the conversation.

Anyway, that doesn't characterize Bailey at all.

He's either going a #1/#2 or he's going to wash out of the league. His command is erratic and his velocity is all over the place. But the tools are there, at least.

Why? Because I'm right and you're wrong?

Of course.

Betterread
08-03-2008, 11:17 PM
Why? Because I'm right and you're wrong?

Of course.

Since you're an expert, why stop at one scouting report? Let's get a scouting report on the top 30 Reds prospects and a prediction on their ML ceiling. If you're really as confident as you say you are, you'll post those scouting reports soon and we'll all be edified.