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osuceltic
08-06-2008, 03:02 PM
There are a lot of holes on this team heading into next season. Let's try to prioritize. I'm going to start with a batting order, 1-8, and place someone who fits the role in a certain spot. I'll list position next to them. I'm leaving pitching for another discussion.

1.
2.
3. Bruce, RF (a question mark, but he's one of those "ifs" we have to rely upon)
4.
5. Phillips, 2B
6. EE/Votto ??
7.
8.

As I see it, everything else is in doubt and up for grabs. There are two glaring holes in the lineup: A leadoff hitter and a cleanup hitter. You can piece together the other spots, but leadoff and cleanup are premium, expensive, tough-to-find players.

So, as Walt goes shopping this winter, he has the following available positions to fill those holes in the lineup: 1B, 3B, SS, LF, CF, C.

What about Votto and Encarnacion? Either or both could have a role, but I'm not assuming it. Plus, there are issues in where they play. The Reds need a cleanup hitter--a true middle-of-the-order bat. That guy is most likely to play 1B or LF. There simply aren't that many players who can fill that role in the batting order while playing 3B, SS, CF or C. So we have a new guy either at 1B or LF. In my mind, that leaves one spot for either Votto or Encarnacion. Why? Because I don't think this team can go into another season with Edwin as the third baseman. He's terrible defensively. He may make a fine 1B or LF. But he's a poor 3B.

So, you find a bopper at either 1B or LF and shift either Votto or Encarnacion to the other spot. The odd man out is traded.

The leadoff spot is tough. Ideally, you'd find a center fielder who could handle it. That's another tall order. But you need to find someone in CF or SS to handle that spot.

So my priorities would be:

1. Cleanup hitter (most likely LF or 1B)
2. Leadoff hitter (most likely CF or SS)
3. SS or CF (whichever isn't filled with the leadoff hitter)
4. Catcher (most important defensive position)
5. 3B (Keppinger could handle this and fill that second spot in the lineup)

Clearly, Walt has his work cut out for him. There are no internal options. I'm not including Dunn in the mix, basically because I don't think the team is including him in their plans.

Here is the best-case scenario as far as the organization is concerned (and I mean that in the sense that, if everyone performed well, this would be the least amount of roster turnover):

1. Import, CF
2. Keppinger, 3B
3. Bruce, RF
4. Import LF/1B
5. Phillips, 2B
6. Votto/EE 1B/LF
7. Import, C
8. Gonzo, SS

So get to work finding us a CF who can lead off and a slugging LF/1B type who can hit in the middle of the order. Any prospects are on the table to trade, as is the Votto/Encarnacion loser. Then we can talk catchers.

OnBaseMachine
08-06-2008, 03:03 PM
Jeff Keppinger is an awful third baseman and his bat is no where near good enough for that position. A big no thanks there.

Patrick Bateman
08-06-2008, 03:08 PM
I'm beginning to question just how good a utility player Kepp is. His skillset is really ugly. Unless his hits fall in, he does nothing of value. Having him in the starting line-up for another year would be a big whiff. He needs to be kept strictly to the bench.

osuceltic
08-06-2008, 03:31 PM
I don't necessarily disagree on Keppinger. That's why he's only included on my "best case" list. If he hits like he did last season or before his injury this season, the guy could handle third and fit fine in that No. 2 spot in the lineup. And he's a better defensive third baseman than Edwin. Is he the long-term answer? Obviously no.

Anyway, I think you zeroed in on an awfully small piece of that post.

redsmetz
08-06-2008, 03:51 PM
I'm not sure I can say the front office doesn't plan on Dunn next year. It may be a question mark as to whether we can meet his price (and I have no idea what that is - but it's going to be lower now than later), but as your review shows, it's a huge hold without Adam Dunn. That's especially true if we buy your thesis at either Votto or Encarnacion goes.

Kc61
08-06-2008, 03:57 PM
Bruce, Phillips, and Votto will stay. Three positions are filled.

Four starters should return, unless Arroyo gets traded. Unlikely. One major starter needed.

Bullpen not a priority for next year, maybe a lefty to replace Affeldt.

Order of priority

1. Major starting pitcher. Fastest way to success is to add another real good starter.

2. Dunn or new power hitter.

3. Catcher. You need a catcher or you have all passed balls.

4. Centerfield.

5. Left side of infield. Need better defenders.

6. Lefty reliever.

7. Improve bench.

RedlegJake
08-06-2008, 05:09 PM
3B-SS-CF-C.

Defense, defense, defense. I really believe the pitching will improve A LOT with great defense.

At third, trade EE or possibly move him to LF if Dunn isn't signed. Or, if a great deal is offered for Votto, move EE to first. Best - Dunn is signed, and either EE or Votto can be moved for a need. Crede would be a nice stopgap at third, acquire him as a FA.

SS - AGon will be back....right? I'm going with what I truly believe the Reds will do here and that's hand it to AGon. I'll go on record arguing that he is a definite improvement over Kepp or Hairston and with Janish as a backup the defense should be reliable here.

CF - try out Dickerson in September to see if he can at least carry the RH pitching side of a platoon role. If it looks like he can then a platoon of Dickerson against RHers and Hairston/Freel vs. lefties might be workable.

C - Put a couple decent chips into acquiring a good young catcher here - a Ramirez or Saltamachia, bring up Hanigan as the backup. You could also go FA Barrett here but that's not nearly as good a solution, although it would work for a year or two.

Then you'd have Salty or Barrett behind the dish, Votto or EE at first, BP at second, AGon at SS, Crede at third, Dickerson/Freel(Hairston whichever is not DL'd at the time) in CF, Bruce in RF and hopefully, Dunn in left.

durl
08-06-2008, 05:18 PM
Jeff Keppinger is an awful third baseman and his bat is no where near good enough for that position. A big no thanks there.

Is 3B supposed to be a power hitter position? If that's the case, it seems power hitter positions are 1B, 3B, and all outfield positions.

I don't know if Kepp is good enough defensively to play 3B but I don't think a player's hitting ability should determine his position. His bat gets him in the lineup and his glove determine where he plays (or not. See Pena, Wily Mo).

puca
08-06-2008, 05:32 PM
Upgrade defensively at SS and don't wait till the offseason.

If there are no better SS gloves available right now, then call up Janish, bat him 8th and move Kepp to the bench. I doubt AGon will be back, or if he is whether he will still be a plus defender, so this offseason try and find the best defender available.

That should be the top priority.

dougdirt
08-06-2008, 05:58 PM
Is 3B supposed to be a power hitter position? If that's the case, it seems power hitter positions are 1B, 3B, and all outfield positions.

I don't know if Kepp is good enough defensively to play 3B but I don't think a player's hitting ability should determine his position. His bat gets him in the lineup and his glove determine where he plays (or not. See Pena, Wily Mo).

Centerfield is not a power position. Not even close.

nate
08-06-2008, 06:06 PM
Centerfield is not a power position. Not even close.

Right. It's the corner D (LF, RF, 1B, 3B) that one would prefer power at.

WVRedsFan
08-06-2008, 06:24 PM
Bruce, Phillips, and Votto will stay. Three positions are filled.

Four starters should return, unless Arroyo gets traded. Unlikely. One major starter needed.

Bullpen not a priority for next year, maybe a lefty to replace Affeldt.

Order of priority

1. Major starting pitcher. Fastest way to success is to add another real good starter.

That is, unless your team is so pitiful at hitting that it only gets 3 runs a game. Even the best guys cannot hold the opposition to 2 runs most games.


2. Dunn or new power hitter.
Agreed. This offense without Dunn would be so anemic they'd need a tranfusion. So if they let Dunn go, they'll have to put money out for a 30-40 HR guy. The solution is just to keep Dunn IMHO.


3. Catcher. You need a catcher or you have all passed balls.

4. Centerfield.

5. Left side of infield. Need better defenders.

6. Lefty reliever.

7. Improve bench.


Totally agree with that. Now, who was it that said we would contend next year? Hogwash. If we get the needed replacements, maybe. If not, we'll still be fighting the Pirates for last place.

Kc61
08-06-2008, 07:12 PM
That is, unless your team is so pitiful at hitting that it only gets 3 runs a game. Even the best guys cannot hold the opposition to 2 runs most games.


Agreed. This offense without Dunn would be so anemic they'd need a tranfusion. So if they let Dunn go, they'll have to put money out for a 30-40 HR guy. The solution is just to keep Dunn IMHO.




Totally agree with that. Now, who was it that said we would contend next year? Hogwash. If we get the needed replacements, maybe. If not, we'll still be fighting the Pirates for last place.

Folks shouldn't overlook the pitching need. If Harang comes back strong and Reds add another top guy, then with Volquez, Arroyo and Cueto filling out the rotation, the team would be way better.

With all the offensive woes, the team ERA has taken a major turn for the worse lately. This corresponds with the losing streak.

Think how much better this year would be if Harang had been healthy and effective and the Reds had another front of the rotation starter.

But I agree with this post that the overall team needs are considerable.

I do like Bruce and Votto though. Good young players.

edabbs44
08-06-2008, 07:24 PM
So much work, so little time. Is it even feasible to right the ship in the near future? If so, then get it done. If not, then man up and start rebuilding. Enough with the fence sitting routine. It is getting old.

Kc61
08-06-2008, 07:26 PM
Upgrade defensively at SS and don't wait till the offseason.

If there are no better SS gloves available right now, then call up Janish, bat him 8th and move Kepp to the bench. I doubt AGon will be back, or if he is whether he will still be a plus defender, so this offseason try and find the best defender available.

That should be the top priority.


FWIW, I think this post is very sound. Kepp hasn't been the same since his injury, I doubt he is really healthy. Whatever, the team needs a truer shortstop and Gonzo is obviously a question mark.

I thought Janish should have stayed with the Reds and I still think he needs to be up with the club. They aren't getting any offense from shortstop anyway. He is a very good defender and I don't see Janish's bat improving materially with more minor league reps.

Would like to see Janish on the team next year, even in a reserve role. He doesn't hit much, I don't really care. He can take an occasional walk, get an occasional clutch hit, and brings much needed defense.

Highlifeman21
08-06-2008, 08:54 PM
LF D is our biggest area needing improvement


... or so some may claim...

nate
08-06-2008, 08:56 PM
I think the two biggest offensive holes are:

1. CF - Current Reds CF position is getting us an 89 OPS+.

But, this is the problem a lot of teams had. I ran a search for CF who had a >=90 OPS+ over the past two seasons with 250 games and age 30 or under. That list looks like this:


Spanning Multiple Seasons or entire Careers,
From 2006 to 2008,
Younger than 30, P
layed 50% of games at CF,
(requiring OPSp>=90 and At least 250 games),
sorted by greatest OBP

Cnt Player OBP OPS+ G From To
+----+-----------------+-----+----+----+----+----+
1 Grady Sizemore .383 130 433 2006 2008
2 B.J. Upton .371 113 287 2006 2008
3 Carlos Beltran .370 138 284 2006 2007
4 David DeJesus .357 102 370 2006 2008
5 Curtis Granderson .352 119 408 2006 2008
6 Aaron Rowand .350 106 377 2006 2008
7 Marlon Byrd .346 103 262 2006 2008
8 Nate McLouth .338 109 352 2006 2008
9 Andruw Jones .337 107 310 2006 2007
10 Vernon Wells .331 107 367 2006 2008
11 Cody Ross .327 115 266 2006 2008


David DeJesus is kind of interesting but he's signed until 2010 with a team option for 2011. Mike Cameron will be a FA if the Brewers don't pick up his option, want to bring him back for a couple years? Tough to say what to do. I might say, if you're trying to stay competitive, sign Mike Cameron.

If you're rebuilding, give the job to Chris Dickerson.

2. Catcher. Current Reds OPS+ is 90. It's really hard to improve here.
Here are all the OPS+ 91 and greater guys over the past two seasons...including old dudes!


Spanning Multiple Seasons or entire Careers,
From 2006 to 2008,
Played 50% of games at C,
(requiring OPSp>=91 and At least 250 games),
sorted by greatest OBP

Cnt Player OBP OPS+ G From To
+----+-----------------+-----+----+----+----+----+
1 Joe Mauer .409 133 349 2006 2008
2 Jorge Posada .396 134 338 2006 2008
3 Victor Martinez .375 117 354 2006 2008
4 Russell Martin .373 109 381 2006 2008
5 Josh Bard .363 111 261 2006 2008
6 Brian McCann .360 127 368 2006 2008
7 Gregg Zaun .350 102 272 2006 2008
8 Ramon Hernandez .329 98 342 2006 2008
9 A.J. Pierzynski .323 91 370 2006 2008
10 Dave Ross .322 96 251 2006 2008
11 Ivan Rodriguez .319 93 352 2006 2008
12 Bengie Molina .307 91 351 2006 2008


Take a chance on Pudge Rodriguez? Otherwise, just resign Ross. In the scheme of things, his bat isn't so bad. I know his glove is suspicious but he caught a ball thrown directly to him and took a hit from Prince Fielder today.

SirFelixCat
08-07-2008, 03:27 AM
Go after CC hard in the off-season. Look to land Orlando Hudson and move BP to SS. Homer Bailey and ??? to Tex for Salty or Teagarden?


CF is still a big black hole....


As for EdE and his defense...he has 18 errors this year. One less than everyone's replacement for him Joe Crede.

EdE is 25 yrs old. Crede is 30.

EdE is OPS'ing .803. Crede .797

I understand that EdE is still trying to get his defense under control (read: throwing) but here are some other 3B and the # of errors this season:

Crede (19)
Mark Reynolds (19)
Jorge Cantu (17)
David Wright (13)

EdE is either younger than every one of them or the same age. Hell he's a year younger than everyone's posterboy, David Wright. Patience with him people. His defense is getting better. His power is developing and he's still quite young. He is 10th in MLB @ 3B OPS (min. 300 PA's).

I fail to understand why most are trying to unload him. If we had even a half-way decent SS, this team would be vastly improved.

Obviously, I'm the one missing something I guess.....

flyer85
08-07-2008, 08:42 AM
run differential

PuffyPig
08-07-2008, 09:14 AM
You lost me when you said that EE can't be our third baseman next year, and suggested Keppinger as his replacement.

There's nothing Kepp does at third that EE doesn't do better.

Sea Ray
08-07-2008, 09:24 AM
I don't see them re-signing Adam Dunn with 3 guys already making in excess of $10mill/yr in Harang, Cordero and Arroyo. We don't have the payroll to handle 4 in that range.

My priority for next year begins with two new coaches. Pitching coach is #1 and batting coach is #2. I think this is more important than any player acquisition. Look at what the Cardinals coaches can do with their players. They've turned players like Ludwick and Ankiel into stars and Duncan has led Lohse to a career year.

Meanwhile our coaches continue to flounder. What they've done to Homer Bailey is downright criminal and I've seen precious little improvement from our other pitchers. Guys like Cueto, Cordero, and Volquez have all regressed this season.

No veteran hitter is having a better year than 2007. None. That reflects very poorly on Jacoby.

As we head into 2009 and 2010 we'll be bringing up a lot of youngsters. They'll need excellent coaching. I'd like to see Leo Mazzone and maybe Merv Rettenmund brought in next year.

Chip R
08-07-2008, 10:21 AM
I don't see them re-signing Adam Dunn with 3 guys already making in excess of $10mill/yr in Harang, Cordero and Arroyo. We don't have the payroll to handle 4 in that range.


I don't think they will either but I don't think it's about money.

Sea Ray
08-07-2008, 10:41 AM
I don't think they will either but I don't think it's about money.

If you add up the salaries of those four plus Phillips you don't have an adequate amount left to sign the additional 20 players if the payroll stays about where it is. The numbers just don't work.

Chip R
08-07-2008, 10:51 AM
If you add up the salaries of those four plus Phillips you don't have an adequate amount left to sign the additional 20 players if the payroll stays about where it is. The numbers just don't work.


Sure you do. By my calculations, counting generous arbitration raises for EE, Majewski, and a modest one for Belisle; including raises and buyouts, if you don't renew any potential free agent's contract, the Reds will have about $24M to use. That could be used to re-sign Dunn for about $15M and have $9M leftover for whatever. I don't think they re-sign him because I don't think they will be able to justify hitting a guy like Dunn 5th, 6th or 7th as Dusty is wont to do. Dusty's also going to want some guys in here that fit in his system and I don't think he sees Dunn as a fit.

HokieRed
08-07-2008, 12:39 PM
Somehow I don't think we're going to have to worry about arbitration raises for Matt Belisle (or Gary Majewski, for that matter).

Chip R
08-07-2008, 12:51 PM
Somehow I don't think we're going to have to worry about arbitration raises for Matt Belisle (or Gary Majewski, for that matter).


Don't bet against it.

Sea Ray
08-07-2008, 03:06 PM
Sure you do. By my calculations, counting generous arbitration raises for EE, Majewski, and a modest one for Belisle; including raises and buyouts, if you don't renew any potential free agent's contract, the Reds will have about $24M to use. That could be used to re-sign Dunn for about $15M and have $9M leftover for whatever. I don't think they re-sign him because I don't think they will be able to justify hitting a guy like Dunn 5th, 6th or 7th as Dusty is wont to do. Dusty's also going to want some guys in here that fit in his system and I don't think he sees Dunn as a fit.

I think your numbers are in the ballpark. Let's look at it this way. The Reds are committed to 6 players next year to the tune of $46.6mill, Arroyo, Phillips, Harang, Cordero, A Gon and Freel. That leaves about $30mill for the remaining 19 players. If you do not consider A Gon a starter then that means you still need to pay 7 starting, everyday players out of all of that. If you pay Dunn $15 mill then you need to squeeze 18 players into about $15mill. I don't see that happening. Even guys like Fogg cost 1 mill. How do you replace Weathers, Affeldt, Hairston under those kinds of restraints? You also need to find a CF, C and resign EE. I think you're asking a bit too much from Walt to ask him to deliver us a winner under those restrictions.

The only way I see it happening is if they can somehow dump Freel and A Gon.

nate
08-07-2008, 03:23 PM
I think your numbers are in the ballpark. Let's look at it this way. The Reds are committed to 6 players next year to the tune of $46.6mill, Arroyo, Phillips, Harang, Cordero, A Gon and Freel. That leaves about $30mill for the remaining 19 players. If you do not consider A Gon a starter then that means you still need to pay 7 starting, everyday players out of all of that. If you pay Dunn $15 mill then you need to squeeze 18 players into about $15mill. I don't see that happening. Even guys like Fogg cost 1 mill. How do you replace Weathers, Affeldt, Hairston under those kinds of restraints? You also need to find a CF, C and resign EE. I think you're asking a bit too much from Walt to ask him to deliver us a winner under those restrictions.

The only way I see it happening is if they can somehow dump Freel and A Gon.

It's not 19 players, these guys will still be here:

Bruce
Votto
Bray
Burton
Kep
Volquez
Cueto
Homer
Masset

Sea Ray
08-07-2008, 03:31 PM
It's not 19 players, these guys will still be here:

Bruce
Votto
Bray
Burton
Kep
Volquez
Cueto
Homer
Masset


They will likely be 8 of the 19 players which I mentioned will be part of the $30mill left over. I'm confused what point you're trying to make.

Will M
08-07-2008, 03:54 PM
There are a lot of holes on this team heading into next season. Let's try to prioritize. I'm going to start with a batting order, 1-8, and place someone who fits the role in a certain spot. I'll list position next to them. I'm leaving pitching for another discussion.

1.
2.
3. Bruce, RF (a question mark, but he's one of those "ifs" we have to rely upon)
4.
5. Phillips, 2B
6. EE/Votto ??
7.
8.

As I see it, everything else is in doubt and up for grabs. There are two glaring holes in the lineup: A leadoff hitter and a cleanup hitter. You can piece together the other spots, but leadoff and cleanup are premium, expensive, tough-to-find players.

So, as Walt goes shopping this winter, he has the following available positions to fill those holes in the lineup: 1B, 3B, SS, LF, CF, C.

What about Votto and Encarnacion? Either or both could have a role, but I'm not assuming it. Plus, there are issues in where they play. The Reds need a cleanup hitter--a true middle-of-the-order bat. That guy is most likely to play 1B or LF. There simply aren't that many players who can fill that role in the batting order while playing 3B, SS, CF or C. So we have a new guy either at 1B or LF. In my mind, that leaves one spot for either Votto or Encarnacion. Why? Because I don't think this team can go into another season with Edwin as the third baseman. He's terrible defensively. He may make a fine 1B or LF. But he's a poor 3B.

So, you find a bopper at either 1B or LF and shift either Votto or Encarnacion to the other spot. The odd man out is traded.

The leadoff spot is tough. Ideally, you'd find a center fielder who could handle it. That's another tall order. But you need to find someone in CF or SS to handle that spot.

So my priorities would be:

1. Cleanup hitter (most likely LF or 1B)
2. Leadoff hitter (most likely CF or SS)
3. SS or CF (whichever isn't filled with the leadoff hitter)
4. Catcher (most important defensive position)
5. 3B (Keppinger could handle this and fill that second spot in the lineup)

Clearly, Walt has his work cut out for him. There are no internal options. I'm not including Dunn in the mix, basically because I don't think the team is including him in their plans.

Here is the best-case scenario as far as the organization is concerned (and I mean that in the sense that, if everyone performed well, this would be the least amount of roster turnover):

1. Import, CF
2. Keppinger, 3B
3. Bruce, RF
4. Import LF/1B
5. Phillips, 2B
6. Votto/EE 1B/LF
7. Import, C
8. Gonzo, SS

So get to work finding us a CF who can lead off and a slugging LF/1B type who can hit in the middle of the order. Any prospects are on the table to trade, as is the Votto/Encarnacion loser. Then we can talk catchers.

priorities:
1. A SS who can field. We have one in Janish but he can't hit. Rather than trying to find a SS elsewhere I would move Phillips to SS.
2. Replace Phillips at 2B with Orlando Hudson. OPS > 800 and gold glove defense.
3. Find a catcher who can field. All three of our current catchers cannot. Hanigan and Tatum are backups. This will have to come via trade.
4. I suspect we will see Freel +- Dickerson in CF. I would vastly prefer platooning Dickerson with a speedy RH hitting defender. Stubbs won't be that guy in 2009 ( could be in 2010 ). A cheap stop gap type guy would be ok.
5. Move EE off 3B. If Dunn goes EE plays LF. If Dunn stays EE is trade bait.
3B is manned by an acquisition, Kep, Richar, Rosales or reupping Hairston.
6. Spend money on one of the free agent starters who projects to be a #1,#2 or #3. Then move guys like Maloney & Bailey for help elsewhere. Getting a catcher and 3rd baseman isn't going to happen via free agency so we will have to trade for these.

That gives you:
1B Votto
2B O Hudson
SS Phillips
3B Acquisition, Kep, Richar, Rosales or Hairston
LF Dunn or EE
CF Platoon of Dickerson/Acquisition
RF Bruce
C Acquisition

SP: Harang-Arroyo-Volquez-Cueto PLUS CC, Sheets, Burnett, Lowe or Moyer
RP: Cordero, Burton, Bray, Lincoln, Roenicke, Herrara,

Looking at this it is a pitching & defense team. It would be so so nice if EE could be a strong defender at 3B and RH bat for the middle of the order but I just don't see it.

REDREAD
08-07-2008, 04:48 PM
Somehow I don't think we're going to have to worry about arbitration raises for Matt Belisle (or Gary Majewski, for that matter).

The Reds aren't going to arb with Belisle. I doubt whether he will even be asked back. If he is, I suspect it will be a minor league contract after no other ML team wants him.

It is time to give up on Belisle. We've given him almost 5 years, and he still hasn't shown anything.

SirFelixCat
08-07-2008, 05:23 PM
Go after CC hard in the off-season. Look to land Orlando Hudson and move BP to SS. Homer Bailey and ??? to Tex for Salty or Teagarden?


CF is still a big black hole....


As for EdE and his defense...he has 18 errors this year. One less than everyone's replacement for him Joe Crede.

EdE is 25 yrs old. Crede is 30.

EdE is OPS'ing .803. Crede .797

I understand that EdE is still trying to get his defense under control (read: throwing) but here are some other 3B and the # of errors this season:

Crede (19)
Mark Reynolds (19)
Jorge Cantu (17)
David Wright (13)

EdE is either younger than every one of them or the same age. Hell he's a year younger than everyone's posterboy, David Wright. Patience with him people. His defense is getting better. His power is developing and he's still quite young. He is 10th in MLB @ 3B OPS (min. 300 PA's).

I fail to understand why most are trying to unload him. If we had even a half-way decent SS, this team would be vastly improved.

Obviously, I'm the one missing something I guess.....


Although ignored the first time, I repost this for those wanting to move/unload EdE.

Kc61
08-07-2008, 05:42 PM
Although ignored the first time, I repost this for those wanting to move/unload EdE.


Just to help complete the picture.

While there are other third basemen with a lot of errors, according to ESPN.com, of the 25 "qualified" third basemen (those with enough games at third) EE's fielding percentage of .921 is the lowest of the 25.

EE does rank tenth in OPS among baseball's third basemen. That is heavily a function of his high home run output this year, fourth among third sackers. If one looks at batting average, his .245 is 21st in baseball among the qualified group.

Sea Ray
08-07-2008, 05:46 PM
David Wright's error last night cost them a ballgame. EE does make a lot of errors, especially on throws, but he makes some spectacular plays too. He also works hard. Until we find a better option I'd stick with EE at 3B.

Kc61
08-07-2008, 05:55 PM
David Wright's error last night cost them a ballgame. EE does make a lot of errors, especially on throws, but he makes some spectacular plays too. He also works hard. Until we find a better option I'd stick with EE at 3B.

I'm not disagreeing, I see other more urgent areas of need, but if you watch almost any starting major league third basemen you will see some spectacular plays. It is a reaction position, lot of hard hit balls, and a starting MLB third baseman will usually have the reflexes and athletic ability to make some great plays. As does EE.

nate
08-07-2008, 06:00 PM
They will likely be 8 of the 19 players which I mentioned will be part of the $30mill left over. I'm confused what point you're trying to make.

Ah, yes. Sorry, I read it as something else!

Ltlabner
08-07-2008, 07:07 PM
I fail to understand why most are trying to unload him. If we had even a half-way decent SS, this team would be vastly improved.

Don't get it either.

His bat has been one of the few shining lights on the team this year, and his defense is nowhere near as damaging as some would have you believe.

EE isn't the problem on this team.

HokieRed
08-07-2008, 07:19 PM
Redread,
Completely agree Belisle won't be back. That was my point. I'm also hoping Coffey, Majewski, Weathers, and Affeldt are gone--not all for the same reason--and that's not to mention the even more obvious ones: Patterson, Bako, Valentin, Fogg, A. Phillips. More difficult calls but still on the release list, IMHO, are Ross and Hairston. It might be easier to list the guys who will be back than the ones let go.

edabbs44
08-07-2008, 07:20 PM
This is likely too big of a job to do in one season, unless you have unlimited capital and a sick FA class. Trying to do it in one year will probably be counterproductive and saddle you with unfavorable contracts. But what do I know?