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Matt700wlw
08-08-2008, 05:37 PM
BILL BAVASI JOINS REDS' FRONT OFFICE

Named Special Assistant to Walt Jocketty


CINCINNATI - Cincinnati Reds President of Baseball Operations and General Manager Walt Jocketty today announced the hiring of former Anaheim Angels and Seattle Mariners general manager Bill Bavasi as a special assistant.

Bavasi, 50, will advise and assist Jocketty in matters related to the front office, Major League field and support personnel and scouting.

"We're excited Bill has joined our organization," Jocketty said. "Over his career of more than 30 years, he has worked in almost every facet of baseball operations. We will benefit from his experience and insights."

Bavasi was the vice president/general manager for the Angels from 1994-99 and executive vice president and general manager of baseball operations for the Mariners from November 7, 2003 through June 15 of this season.

Bavasi began his professional baseball career in 1974 with the San Diego Padres. He was named Angels general manager after 14 years in their player development department and helped lay the groundwork for that club's 2002 World Series championship. He spent the 2002-03 seasons as the Los Angeles Dodgers' director of player development before he was hired by the Mariners as their GM in November 2003.

His father, Buzzie Bavasi, was general manager of the Angels and the Brooklyn and Los Angeles Dodgers and president of the Padres. His brother, Peter, was general manager of the Padres, founding president of the Toronto Blue Jays and president of the Cleveland Indians.

westofyou
08-08-2008, 05:38 PM
Great...... the Anthony Young of GM's

fearofpopvol1
08-08-2008, 05:39 PM
jojo??

flyer85
08-08-2008, 05:40 PM
Great...... the Anthony Young of GM'sand that is being kind. Maybe Walt will use him as a "reverse barometer".

Unassisted
08-08-2008, 05:40 PM
So if Bavasi is the new TVIW, what is Walt? ;)

KronoRed
08-08-2008, 05:41 PM
jojo??

Rolling on the floor laughing?

BRM
08-08-2008, 05:41 PM
Ugh.

:all_cohol

_Sir_Charles_
08-08-2008, 05:44 PM
Now if they brought him in to ask him his opinion on trades and signings...I'm all for it. As long as the strategy is to do the exact OPPOSITE of his suggestions. Good lord, what are they THINKING?!?

My advise to you...start drinking heavily.
http://www.celebritypro.com/photos/john-belushi.jpg

wolfboy
08-08-2008, 05:51 PM
Dave Littlefield for special assistant to the special assistant?

princeton
08-08-2008, 05:51 PM
he'll know when it's time to wake up Walt.

"You were sleeping so I went ahead and traded Bruce for Bedard. I didn't think that it was big enough to wake you."


but at least Cast's next GM is again in house.

BRM
08-08-2008, 05:53 PM
but at least Cast's next GM is again in house.

:eek:

What a scary thought.

Kc61
08-08-2008, 05:56 PM
Am I wrong that the Reds seem to spend most of their effort acquiring new owners, front office people, scouts, managers and coaches.

How about a couple of good players?

And westofyou, Anthony Young was a pretty highly touted prospect. C'mon, you know the old RedsZone bromide that a pitcher's won-lost record is meaningless.

RichRed
08-08-2008, 05:58 PM
Is there such a thing as August Fools Day? Please say yes.

marcshoe
08-08-2008, 06:00 PM
I don't curse, so I guess I can't reply to this.

BRM
08-08-2008, 06:03 PM
Hopefully I'll feel better a few beers from now.

wolfboy
08-08-2008, 06:03 PM
I don't curse, so I guess I can't reply to this.

If this doesn't get you started then nothing will.

RFS62
08-08-2008, 06:04 PM
but at least Cast's next GM is again in house.


This news is bad enough without that prediction.

jojo
08-08-2008, 06:07 PM
jojo??

Clearly this is just a bad dream.......

edabbs44
08-08-2008, 06:07 PM
Unfrigginbelievable.

Ltlabner
08-08-2008, 06:09 PM
Yep.....my suspicions that BCast was part of the problem, and not the solution, was dead on.

Bozo.

Unassisted
08-08-2008, 06:09 PM
Now that a potential successor is in place, I wonder if Jocketty's departure will happen because Castellini had his fill of him or the other way around.

edabbs44
08-08-2008, 06:10 PM
Hmm...where's the link for this article?

wolfboy
08-08-2008, 06:11 PM
Now that a potential successor is in place, I wonder if Jocketty's departure will happen because Castellini had his fill of him or the other way around.

IIRC, Jocketty had expressed some initial reluctance in coming here. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a short tenure. Now, we know what the future holds...and it's not going to be pretty.

*BaseClogger*
08-08-2008, 06:13 PM
Time to "win now!"



:explode:

Ltlabner
08-08-2008, 06:13 PM
IIRC, Jocketty had expressed some initial reluctance in coming here. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a short tenure. Now, we know what the future holds...and it's not going to be pretty.

Don't worry Wolfboy, the losing stops now.

And this time, he really means it.

Matt700wlw
08-08-2008, 06:14 PM
Hmm...where's the link for this article?

My first post is now the official release from the Reds

wheels
08-08-2008, 06:15 PM
What does a Special Assistant to the General Manager actually do? I'm assuming the role means different things to different organizations.

If that's the case, let's hope that Bavasi's role will be to make sure the coffee's being served in a timely manner.

westofyou
08-08-2008, 06:18 PM
What does a Special Assistant to the General Manager actually do? I'm assuming the role means different things to different organizations.

If that's the case, let's hope that Bavasi's role will be to make sure the coffee's being served in a timely manner.

Keeps his hand on the pulse of other assistants.

Problem is the man is King Midas in reverse, and now he has Mr Redleg on his business cards.

jojo
08-08-2008, 06:19 PM
Rolling on the floor laughing?

If Dusty wasn't enough of a sign, I think such a move would say there will be no change in a direction even remotely resembling what I hunger for in Cincy....

Bavasi is a truly nice guy-basically a stand up individual in all regards. He just sucked terribly at his job when the GM in Seattle. He places a great deal of emphasis on chemistry and intangibles (things I think best completely ignored when evaluating players)....

As a special assistant, though, who knows what his job responsibilities would really be?

All in all though, it wouldn't be a sign that I'd regard as encouraging.

Cyclone792
08-08-2008, 06:21 PM
ROFFLE

:bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl:

Strikes Out Looking
08-08-2008, 06:23 PM
What does a Special Assistant to the General Manager actually do? I'm assuming the role means different things to different organizations.

If that's the case, let's hope that Bavasi's role will be to make sure the coffee's being served in a timely manner.

He waits for the owner to have a bee in his bonnet, call a press conference and announces he's tired of losing and wants to win now. He then sits around and does nothing for the next four months. (Yes, that is a shot at Walt Jocketty).

wheels
08-08-2008, 06:24 PM
Keeps his hand on the pulse of other assistants.

Problem is the man is King Midas in reverse, and now he has Mr Redleg on his business cards.

Gulp!

Seeing this type of reaction from a man of your level headed-ness really gives me reason to fear this cat.

Does Walt really think he did a decent job in Seattle, or could this be a good buddy network hire, just to throw a few ducats his way?

Really...What does this tell us about Walt Jocketty?

BRM
08-08-2008, 06:25 PM
This move helps a lot. Now, finally, the Reds are serious about winning.

mbgrayson
08-08-2008, 06:30 PM
This move helps a lot. Now, finally, the Reds are serious about winning.

How many beers are you up to?

Counting Dusty, we now have two clear signs of the Apocalypse.

Always Red
08-08-2008, 06:33 PM
This move helps a lot. Now, finally, the Reds are serious about winning.

So, does the winning start now, then? for real?

*BaseClogger*
08-08-2008, 06:37 PM
The Reds have found two of the keys to finding Pandora's box!

RFS62
08-08-2008, 06:42 PM
We'll probably trade Bruce for Ichiro now.

Patrick Bateman
08-08-2008, 06:57 PM
The more things change, the more they stay the same. This organization just doesn't get it.

marcshoe
08-08-2008, 06:59 PM
This miserable season has been filled with one disappointment after another, with the general miasma choking out the hope that had been building. The young players have arrived, but there's an almost indecipherable something about this club that gives the idea that even if they develop on schedule, the team still won't be what was hoped. There's something there, but it's not enough, and while the will to improve, to add the needed pieces to make this a workable winning club might be there, the know-how doesn't seem to be. The will seems to be the sort that makes the chances of actually taking needed actions less.

And now, this. The only man who made it a question whether Dan O'Brien was the worst ML GM in recent memory has been hired to work for the club. This is a man who had something else in common with O'Brien--he owed his job to his last name, not his ability. This is the kind of hire that is possibly the very least desirable, the least helpful, the most aggrevating. This is the kind of hire that pours drano into the tub to make sure that hope circles the drain even faster and soon disappears.

In other words, it doesn't make me happy.

mbgrayson
08-08-2008, 07:03 PM
Here is a link (http://ussmariner.com/2008/05/24/bavasi-blissfully-unaware-of-real-analysis/) and an excerpt from the Mariner's Blog "U.S.S. Mariner" and their discussions on Bavasi.


Lots of people had “the nerve” to tell you that you did a horrible job building this roster, Bill. Lots of people pointed out that this team wasn’t a contender. Lots of people told you that you that you had a roster setup for failure, with collapse potential everywhere. You just don’t listen to those people, because they’re nerds with computers who don’t understand baseball. Or something.

But you don’t get to rewrite history. We knew this team wasn’t good, and we spent the entire offseason trying to tell you that. You ignored us at your own peril, and you built a terrible baseball team for $117 million. That’s your fault.

And now, rather than learning from your mistakes, admitting that you have absolutely no idea how to evaluate pitching talent, you’re completely ignorant of how to value defense, you don’t know what kinds of hitters work in your own park, and realizing that there’s an entire school of analysis that could help improve the decision making of the club, you’re once again focusing on things like clubhouse leadership and character.

This is ridiculous. Build a good baseball team, and you won’t have to talk about all this psycho babble crap that you guys invent to try to justify your horrible decisions. Learn more about baseball than a blogger who lives 2,500 miles from Safeco Field and covers the team as a freaking hobby. I shouldn’t know more about how to build a baseball team than you, but I do, and that’s why you and your entire staff deserve to be fired.

Tom Servo
08-08-2008, 07:05 PM
Jose Vidro is available.

Matt700wlw
08-08-2008, 07:07 PM
Just because everybody HATES this deal...I will call it a good move. Don't ask me to elaborate, because I have nothing...

:p: :D

oneupper
08-08-2008, 07:07 PM
The only explanation I can find for such a move is that Walt Jocketty doesn't want to continue much longer in the post, for whatever reason. Bavasi is getting a chance to familiarize himself with the team before taking over.

Sorry...but that's what it looks like.

marcshoe
08-08-2008, 07:10 PM
The only explanation I can find for such a move is that Walt Jocketty doesn't want to continue much longer in the post, for whatever reason. Bavasi is getting a chance to familiarize himself with the team before taking over.

Sorry...but that's what it looks like.

Take it back!!!!!

wolfboy
08-08-2008, 07:10 PM
The only explanation I can find for such a move is that Walt Jocketty doesn't want to continue much longer in the post, for whatever reason. Bavasi is getting a chance to familiarize himself with the team before taking over.

Sorry...but that's what it looks like.

Unfortunately, that's my thought as well. :(

Heath
08-08-2008, 07:11 PM
Just because your dad's was a decent GM, doesn't make you one.

/baseball nepotism

Matt700wlw
08-08-2008, 07:13 PM
Just because your dad's was a decent GM, doesn't make you one.

/baseball nepotism

Ask Dave Shula.

Different sport...different position.....same idea.

princeton
08-08-2008, 07:17 PM
Just because everybody HATES this deal...I will call it a good move. Don't ask me to elaborate, because I have nothing...

:p: :D


I don't hate it-- there are good assistants that make bad bosses. How would I know how good/bad Bavasi is at the job for which he's been hired

and that's how I plan to think until Jocketty either gets pushed out or fed up...

Matt700wlw
08-08-2008, 07:21 PM
Let's hope this role is much better suited for him

Patrick Bateman
08-08-2008, 07:31 PM
Let's hope this role is much better suited for him

If the role involves analyzing baseball players, it probably isn't a good fit.

Always Red
08-08-2008, 07:40 PM
Let's hope this role is much better suited for him

Why would this team want to hire men whom have already failed in baseball?

Aren't there enough of them on the field of play?

KronoRed
08-08-2008, 07:41 PM
Bring Back Dan O :D

VR
08-08-2008, 07:49 PM
Uncle.

RedEye
08-08-2008, 08:05 PM
This is the worst news I've heard in a long time. In what way can Bavasi possibly help Walt improve this team? He just single-handedly ran the Mariners into the ground and that somehow now qualifies him for another job? This is the old boy's network at its worst. The Reds continue to be the prime example of how anti-Moneyball logic is still alive and well.

GAC
08-08-2008, 08:21 PM
What does a Special Assistant to the General Manager actually do?

Take the then acting GM's job. :lol:

This team is on their 4th GM in 6 years. So you have to keep something back in reserve in the system.

Even Patton needed a backup plan at Gettysburg.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1285/698214287_dc654f8c8b.jpg?v=0

Falls City Beer
08-08-2008, 08:26 PM
I too think Walt's a goner. Meaning, he'll just step down and retire, IMO.

GAC
08-08-2008, 08:35 PM
The only explanation I can find for such a move is that Walt Jocketty doesn't want to continue much longer in the post, for whatever reason. Bavasi is getting a chance to familiarize himself with the team before taking over.

Sorry...but that's what it looks like.

After Jocketty took over, there was an article (interview) with Jocketty inwhich he said that he and Bob didn't have anything in writing (contract-wise); but have a verbal (hand shake) commitment until 2011.


I too think Walt's a goner. Meaning, he'll just step down and retire, IMO.

Then why hire the guy in the first place (if true)?

If Walt vacates the role, while making no great improvements to this team, or maybe because he has had a change of heart, no longer wants the job, nor is up for the task at hand, then this one one huge misstep by Castellini IMHO.

And then they are possibly going to turn it ove to this dufus?

THE GUY JUST GOT FIRED because of his poor performance and his team has one of the worst records in MLB. Do we need to list the bad player decisions this guy has made during his tenure with the Ms?

Geez!

Falls City Beer
08-08-2008, 08:38 PM
The Reds are officially the Orioles West. Sad. But not unexpected.

Falls City Beer
08-08-2008, 08:43 PM
After Jocketty took over, there was an article (interview) with Jocketty inwhich he said that he and Bob didn't have anything in writing (contract-wise); but have a verbal (hand shake) commitment until 2011.



Then why hire the guy in the first place (if true)?

If Walt vacates the role, while making no great improvements to this team, or maybe because he has had a change of heart, no longer wants the job, nor is up for the task at hand, then this one one huge misstep by Castellini IMHO.

And then they are possibly going to turn it ove to this dufus?

THE GUY JUST GOT FIRED because of his poor performance and his team has one of the worst records in MLB. Do we need to list the bad player decisions this guy has made during his tenure with the Ms?

Geez!

I don't think Walt's heart is in it. This deadline was way too quiet for him. I think it's a simple change of heart. I don't blame him; even under the best conditions, this team is years away from contention.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Walt wanted to trade some principals (Dunn/Arroyo), but got shot down by Cast, so Walt's saying "Forget it."

Spring~Fields
08-08-2008, 08:46 PM
Unfrigginbelievable.

:) Not everything is always the GM's fault...........:thumbup:


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

fearofpopvol1
08-08-2008, 08:47 PM
I'd rather have Krivsky back

Falls City Beer
08-08-2008, 08:48 PM
I'd rather have Krivsky back

Than Bavasi? Absolutely. And I really disliked Krivsky.

Spring~Fields
08-08-2008, 08:48 PM
I too think Walt's a goner. Meaning, he'll just step down and retire, IMO.

Bob must have told him what the budget was going to be. :evil:

:lol:

edabbs44
08-08-2008, 08:53 PM
I'd rather have Krivsky back

I would have to agree. I think Wayne has value, but I wouldn't put him in charge of an entire organization.

Assistant GM? Special Assistant? Absolutely.

Spring~Fields
08-08-2008, 08:53 PM
Yep.....my suspicions that BCast was part of the problem, and not the solution, was dead on.

Bozo.

Well we tried to tell them. :cool:

NJReds
08-08-2008, 08:58 PM
Great. We're like the Steinbrenner Yankees without the winning.

RedEye
08-08-2008, 09:06 PM
Great. We're like the Steinbrenner Yankees without the winning.

And without the money.

Caveat Emperor
08-08-2008, 09:25 PM
Oh well...

I've just come to terms with the fact that this team likes shooting itself too much to ever point the gun someplace else.

remdog
08-08-2008, 09:26 PM
This entire team becomes more depressing by the day.

Rem

GAC
08-08-2008, 09:34 PM
I don't think Walt's heart is in it. This deadline was way too quiet for him. I think it's a simple change of heart. I don't blame him; even under the best conditions, this team is years away from contention.

I don't fault Walt either (if he does step down).

But I do fault this impetuous owner.

Always Red
08-08-2008, 09:34 PM
:) Not everything is always the GM's fault...........:thumbup:


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

A fish always stinks from the head first.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-08-2008, 09:38 PM
Honestly.

I just don't think I care anymore.

Always Red
08-08-2008, 09:40 PM
Honestly.

I just don't think I care anymore.

I'm longing for the days when Uncle Carl owned the team. :eek:

Spring~Fields
08-08-2008, 09:58 PM
I'm longing for the days when Uncle Carl owned the team. :eek:

Oh if the chief executive officer, Bob Castellini keeps running the ship aground with Mr. Lindner‘s, Mr. Reik’s and Mr. Strikes money, we will be hearing from them eventually. Bob’s hired him several high maintenance boy’s in Jocketty, Bavasi and Baker, guys who are use to the big budget high life, it has all the makings of something interesting to come.

Always Red
08-08-2008, 10:11 PM
Oh if the chief executive officer, Bob Castellini keeps running the ship aground with Mr. Lindner‘s, Mr. Reik’s and Mr. Strikes money, we will be hearing from them eventually. Bob’s hired him several high maintenance boy’s in Jocketty, Bavasi and Baker, guys who are use to the big budget high life, it has all the makings of something interesting to come.

There is no one else left to blame for this mess but Cast.

I'm willing to give him some time, but he has to build some stability. When I hear there is a new "special ass't to the GM" like many here, I am conditioned to hear "future Red's GM." Frankly, I'd rather have Bowden, Kuhlman, O'Brien, Krivsky or Jocketty, rather than Bavasi.

As many mentioned earlier- this team needs to stop adding or changing FO exec's and start adding or changing baseball players.

I am losing faith. :(

Spring~Fields
08-08-2008, 10:19 PM
but he has to build some stability.

I think that you have said it the best right there.

Raisor
08-08-2008, 10:26 PM
Now I wish I hadn't come home and checked the MB.

SteelSD
08-08-2008, 10:44 PM
Gah. Bill Bavasi is to a front office as Eric Milton is to a starting rotation.

After the Baker hire, I figured that everyone is prone to one huge mistake from time to time. But at this point, it appears that Castellini was smacked upside the head with the stupid stick. Things I would let Bavasi do if he were my assistant:

1. Have him fire himself.

There. Done. That's it.

hebroncougar
08-08-2008, 11:04 PM
Holy smokes, this is unbelievable. I'm sorry, but Castellini doesn't know how to run a baseball organization at all. Baker? Jocketty?? Bavasi?? You have to seriously question Jocketty's judgement with this hire.

LoganBuck
08-08-2008, 11:49 PM
This is how George, Paul, and Ringo felt when John introduced them to Yoko.

Ltlabner
08-08-2008, 11:51 PM
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Walt wanted to trade some principals (Dunn/Arroyo), but got shot down by Cast, so Walt's saying "Forget it."

I can easily see that scenario unfolding.

Walt trying to make some moves to get the team righted for 2009 and beyond. BCast saying, "nope, we gotta win now" and Walt realizing that BCast is an idiot.

Obviously I have no idea if that's what's really happened but I just can't imagine Walt going along with the "lets keep our players and try to win as many games as possible" crap.

Topcat
08-09-2008, 12:40 AM
This does not sit well with me at all.

RedsManRick
08-09-2008, 01:15 AM
We are the stupidest organization in baseball. I'm embarrassed to be a Reds fan.

MartyFan
08-09-2008, 02:14 AM
I'd rather have Krivsky back

You know if the FO would have kept DanO for his ability to scout amateur talent and kept Special K for his ability to find the hidden gems in other teams system...our FO would be pretty good right now sadly Cincinnati is the roulette GM spot in baseball.

cincinnati chili
08-09-2008, 02:40 AM
Great...... the Anthony Young of GM's

Ha!

I was thinking more the Nancy Sinatra of GMs.

Ron Madden
08-09-2008, 02:55 AM
This is not good news.

Sometimes I think the Cincinnati media and a large portion of the Reds fanbase deserve guys like Dusty Baker and Bill Bavasi.

Be careful what you wish for... you just might get it.

:(

Matt700wlw
08-09-2008, 03:05 AM
I may have created the most depressing thread in years....Sadly, it all deals with actual stuff....that REALLY OCCURED.....sorry, guys!!

Ron Madden
08-09-2008, 03:51 AM
Our broadcasters, beat writers and local sportstalk callers all say to build the team around Brandon Phillips. The popular notion is to surround Phillips with the likes of Kepp, Gonzo, Hairston, Hopper and Freel.

I like Phillips but it scares the hell outta me that Jocketty, Bavasi and Baker might do just that.

:(

WebScorpion
08-09-2008, 05:24 AM
Holy Crap! they've hired the only guy who would ever make me want JimBo, DanO, and/or Krivsky back. Any of them is better than Bavasi. He nurtured 2 different organizations through some of the worst years in their entire histories. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/fc/paperbag.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

GAC
08-09-2008, 06:22 AM
This is how George, Paul, and Ringo felt when John introduced them to Yoko.

Yes, but I think Yoko would make a better GM.

And since Ks = PEACE..... then all we are saying is give peace a chance. :p:

cincyinco
08-09-2008, 07:15 AM
You have got to be kidding me.

Amazing. Simply mind boggling. Wouldn't it be just peachy if krivsky landed the Seattle gig? Full circle baby.

In any case...

Like the sands in a hour glass.... These are the days of our lives.

GAC
08-09-2008, 07:23 AM
Like the sands in a hour glass.... These are the days of our lives.

It's definitely a soap opera.

RichRed
08-09-2008, 08:16 AM
I've never wished more that I could just flip a switch and become a fan of a different team. Sadly, I've got this disease for life.

LoganBuck
08-09-2008, 08:58 AM
I checked this thread again to see if it was still true, because I had been drinking beer the first time I read it. It still is. Yuck.

LoganBuck
08-09-2008, 09:01 AM
Do the Reds have even one computer nerd with glasses and a computer, who looks at stats in his underwear, in his parents' basement?

hebroncougar
08-09-2008, 09:47 AM
I've never wished more that I could just flip a switch and become a fan of a different team. Sadly, I've got this disease for life.

Amen. I also, at least like the Rays (not near as much). This is the kind of stuff that is just depressing as heck. I feel like I'm in a nightmare and can't wake up.

wally post
08-09-2008, 10:16 AM
The Cincinnati Reds have become a retirement community for GMs that nobody else wants. I'm very fearful that we will become the old Kansas City Athletics now and service all of our better talent away for the next ten years.

Raisor
08-09-2008, 10:23 AM
Do the Reds have even one computer nerd with glasses and a computer, who looks at stats in his underwear, in his parents' basement?

I would like to apply for that job.

BCubb2003
08-09-2008, 10:27 AM
Do the Reds have even one computer nerd with glasses and a computer, who looks at stats in his underwear, in his parents' basement?

How those stats got in his underwear, he'll never know.

paulrichjr
08-09-2008, 10:50 AM
You guys don't suffer near as bad as me. I have 2 boys (13, 9) that I have brain washed into being Reds fans. We are fairly well known in our area as being fans because of the endless shirts that my kids wear. All of their friends make fun of them because of their affiliation. They believed the lies that I told them about the Reds future is looking bright with such good young talent. How do I tell them that Cast has no clue and we are heading toward 10 more years of futility? This hiring is a joke and I know many don't agree with this position but I feel that the Jock hiring is almost as bad. He isn't impressing me so far.

traderumor
08-09-2008, 10:54 AM
Any chance Bavasi has a strength that complements a weakness of Jocketty? I mean, even one?

Matt700wlw
08-09-2008, 10:57 AM
I checked this thread again to see if it was still true, because I had been drinking beer the first time I read it. It still is. Yuck.

Switch to the hard stuff....

MWM
08-09-2008, 11:08 AM
Meh, I'm with princeton. Sometimes good assistans just can't handle it when they're the ones having to make the final decision rather than provide insight. Castellini sure does seem to be obsessed with "name" guys, though.

mbgrayson
08-09-2008, 11:15 AM
Here is a list of all the transactions Bavasi made while he was the Mariner's: http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/mariners/2008/06/16/the_bavasi_years

jojo
08-09-2008, 11:20 AM
Bavasi could make a great special assistant given his character/reputation as a good guy (and a baseball man to boot!)-basically a mirror of Jocketty's personality strengths I think. Not bad traits to have for a person who facilitates communication between FO's.

The thing I hate about this hire is what it likely suggests about the thinking process in the Reds FO. Generally you wouldn't hire a person to be your special assistant if their philosophy is dramatically different than your own vision (and I think it's pretty clear that Bavasi's vision doesn't translate on the GM level-he should never get another GM job-ever).

So Bavasi will likely do some of Walt's heavy lifting grunt work (is Walt all in or is his situation like a Clemens deal where the Reds will bend over backwards so Walt only has to work every 5th day?). Bavasi also brings in a voice which IMHO, is the wrong one to be infusing/reinforcing into the Reds vision. All of that said, he does have a strong reputation on the player development side of things (his penchant for challenging players by rapidly promoting them, i.e. believing a player needs to fail in order to grow, should make for some fertile discussions in the minor league forum). Maybe Walt wants more input into the Reds farm system as he plans for the future?

Bavasi does have some talents that perhaps the Reds could leverage but geesh, to me, it seem like moving wasps into your kitchen to control a roach problem.....but then again, I've suffered through the Bavasi years as an Ms fan and I don't have the charity for Bavasi that an impartial observer might have....

Falls City Beer
08-09-2008, 11:39 AM
Here is a list of all the transactions Bavasi made while he was the Mariner's: http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/mariners/2008/06/16/the_bavasi_years

Horrible.

MWM
08-09-2008, 11:44 AM
Here is a list of all the transactions Bavasi made while he was the Mariner's: http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/mariners/2008/06/16/the_bavasi_years

Wow. I knew he was a bad GM, but I never followed Seattle close enough to know all of his moves. That is was one long list of crap. He sure is obsesses with those older name players. That list could give DanO a run for his money.

Raisor
08-09-2008, 11:46 AM
but then again, I've suffered through the Bavasi years as an Ms fan and I don't have the charity for Bavasi that an impartial observer might have....

I'm right there with you sister.

HokieRed
08-09-2008, 12:49 PM
I'm not sure I see why RZers are so universally upset. Looks like the worst deal he made was the big one for Bedard, and I can remember a lot of RZers who thought that's what the Reds should do.

nate
08-09-2008, 12:55 PM
I liked this volley:


April 3, 2004
Acquired infielder Jolbert Cabrera from the Los Angeles Dodgers for RHP Aaron Looper and LHP Ryan Ketchner.

April 12, 2004
Acquired RHP Aaron Looper from the Los Angeles Dodgers for LHP Glenn Bott.

RedEye
08-09-2008, 01:12 PM
I'm not sure I see why RZers are so universally upset. Looks like the worst deal he made was the big one for Bedard, and I can remember a lot of RZers who thought that's what the Reds should do.

What about Adrian Beltre and Richie Sexson? Ouch. Ouch.

RedEye
08-09-2008, 01:15 PM
I suppose you can still make the argument that Beltre was a good signing at the time, but Sexson's contract has been an albatross of Miltonesque proportions.

mbgrayson
08-09-2008, 01:26 PM
The one I hate the most is Jose Vidro. In 2008 his salary is $8,500,000.

His line this year is .234/.274/.338 for an OPS of .612. He was just released. Wow. Worse per dollar than Corey Patterson.

RFS62
08-09-2008, 01:27 PM
I suppose you can still make the argument that Beltre was a good signing at the time, but Sexson's contract has been an albatross of Miltonesque proportions.



I can't make a case for the Beltre deal. A lot of people thought it was a disaster when he made it.

The Beltre and Sexson deals were perfect punctuation marks for his legacy, not that it was much before he went up there.

jojo
08-09-2008, 03:44 PM
What about Adrian Beltre and Richie Sexson? Ouch. Ouch.

Beltre is a perfect example of paying a guy exactly what the market says he should be paid. The Ms have gotten their money's worth from him and should explore the possibility of extending him. Beltre is a positive for Bavasi. Even right now where some might suggest Beltre is having a down year, his unadjusted numbers are league average for a thirdbaseman (and Safeco suppresses numbers for righthanders significantly) while he's obviously a plus defender. Basically he's an above average third baseman-one that might be undervalued this free agent season... Personally, I think Beltre would look good in a Reds uniform and could be part of the jigsaw that replaces Dunn if he departs.

Sexson was an obvious overpay from a back-end loaded standpoint at the time of signing partly in reaction to losing out on Delgado and partly because Bavasi and the Ms tend to ignore what the market says when then decide they need a left-turning widget to fasten their turnytubes.

How about giving away Guillen?

Bavasi really looks bad (actually he looks grossly incompetent) on just about anything he did pitching-wise other than how Felix was handled and how he economically built some great bullpens (though it's tough to credit him with that given how poorly he valuated arms for the rotation).

RedEye
08-09-2008, 03:45 PM
I can't make a case for the Beltre deal. A lot of people thought it was a disaster when he made it.

The Beltre and Sexson deals were perfect punctuation marks for his legacy, not that it was much before he went up there.

Beltré was the top free agent bat on the market that year, and was a young, gold-glove caliber 3B who broke out with 48 HR in Dodger stadium the year before. He was expensive, but I think even a lot of M's fans argued it was a decent investment at the time.

I agree that it doesn't improve Bavasi's overall legacy, but I'll give him a pass on Beltré I think.

jojo
08-09-2008, 03:55 PM
Here's food for thought.....Bavasi is a huge advocate of considering chemistry and intangibles when building a roster (he thinks the Ms troubles this year are due to deficiencies in those areas-even to the point of suggesting several players have "white-line fever" meaning they aren't "clutch")......wonder what he will whisper in Jocketty's ear concerning Dunn?

Spring~Fields
08-09-2008, 08:27 PM
Jocketty looking for a quick fix
Posted by JohnFay at 8/9/2008 5:13 PM EDT on Cincinnati.com

I talked to Walt Jocketty for my Sunday Insider for the paper. While I highly encourage you to pick up up the print version -- think of all the coupons and the color comics -- I'll give you the short version here.

I asked him if he thought the Reds could be fixed in one offseason.
"I hope so," he said. "I don't think we're that far away."

You may disagree with that. But it tells you that the Reds are still in the quick-fix mode. Still, they won't trade young players as part of quick fix.
"That would kind of defeat our purpose," Jocketty said.

So it's a quick fix/youth movement all at the same time.

Other topics:
--Jocketty said the Reds haven't contacted the agents for any of the 12 potential free agents on the club.
--He said no decision has been made on Adam Dunn.
--Alex Gonzalez is still in the club's plans at shortstop. Jocketty said the medical reports indicate he'll be readty. "But you have to be ready either way," Jocketty said.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a89cf1e79-3bc6-41ff-b2a0-c563116a1d4c&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

*BaseClogger*
08-09-2008, 08:37 PM
Do the Reds have even one computer nerd with glasses and a computer, who looks at stats in his underwear, in his parents' basement?

:laugh:

edabbs44
08-09-2008, 08:53 PM
I asked him if he thought the Reds could be fixed in one offseason.

"I hope so," he said. "I don't think we're that far away."

You may disagree with that. But it tells you that the Reds are still in the quick-fix mode. Still, they won't trade young players as part of quick fix.
"That would kind of defeat our purpose," Jocketty said.

So it's a quick fix/youth movement all at the same time.

Very tough to do. And I get the feeling that it will not work. Again.

Tony Cloninger
08-09-2008, 09:19 PM
What was Bavasi's track record for the Angels? I think he did a little better there....even though they never won...they did contend and in some cases...blow some leads. That 1995 became very un-clutch the last few months of the season.

Spring~Fields
08-09-2008, 10:59 PM
Very tough to do. And I get the feeling that it will not work. Again.

I agree with you, and I know that each of us would be happy if somehow he pulls it off.

I am down to, if the guy would just communicate more to us, the fan base, I might be a little happier, rock bottom on the hope meter.

jojo
08-10-2008, 01:03 AM
What was Bavasi's track record for the Angels? I think he did a little better there....even though they never won...they did contend and in some cases...blow some leads. That 1995 became very un-clutch the last few months of the season.

The Angels pretty much won with "his" players comprising a significant portion of their roster though....

OnBaseMachine
08-10-2008, 09:49 PM
Yet another awful decision. Whatever magic touch Walt Jocketty had before he must have left in St. Louis. I'm not sure if he's made one good move yet.

Matt700wlw
08-11-2008, 01:08 AM
I am down to, if the guy would just communicate more to us, the fan base, I might be a little happier, rock bottom on the hope meter.

I think the close to the vest style is the best for the organization...it's like a card game...don't give the opposing players an edge. It's frustrating because it lacks immediate answers, which we ALL want. If they weren't so close to the vest, would the Griffey trade have happened?

Blitz Dorsey
08-11-2008, 02:35 AM
Someone already mentioned Dan O'Brien, but Wayne Krivsky is another guy who immediately got a job after being fired by the Reds. It's not a surprise at all that Bavasi was hired here as an assistant after being fired by the M's. That's how it works around the league. GMs get fired and then they immediately latch on as assistant GMs somewhere else. Castellini and Jocketty are tight... they were both on board with this move. I don't see any hidden agenda like I did when Jocketty was hired. This is Jocketty's team as long as he wants it. And I think he does, if for no other reason than to stick it to the Cardinals eventually.