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View Full Version : I guess the best thing about the Dunn trade is...



BurgervilleBuck
08-11-2008, 04:47 PM
...no more Dunn threads. :D

Fon Duc Tow
08-11-2008, 04:51 PM
...no more Dunn threads. :D

Kind of like how there are no more Hamilton threads since he was traded?

;)

BurgervilleBuck
08-11-2008, 04:52 PM
Doh!!! ;)

Hondo
08-13-2008, 01:00 PM
Um, I guess there is a lot of people happy now that Dunn is gone...

I for one am not one... This team and people on the board complain about Dunn wanting 100 Million Dollar contract but this team pays 3 Million for a guy hitting less than .200... And then say, "Atleast he plays good defense"

If the Reds were planning on Trading Griffey and Dunn, Hamilton should not have been traded... even for Volquez...

Volquez is a Premier pitching Talent but his stock was at an all time LOW when that trade was made...

Unless Max Sherzer is part of that Dunn trade.. It was a joke... Allard Baird proportions amongst Trades...

BurgervilleBuck
08-13-2008, 01:11 PM
I for one am not one... This team and people on the board complain about Dunn wanting 100 Million Dollar contract but this team pays 3 Million for a guy hitting less than .200... And then say, "Atleast he plays good defense"
Different GMs. Different players. Different attributes. Even if Dunn's bat was combined with Patterson's defense, I still say there's no way you pay him $125-million.


If the Reds were planning on Trading Griffey and Dunn, Hamilton should not have been traded... even for Volquez...
Who says they were at the start of this season? They needed pitching and you were not going to get Volquez for Dunn or Griffey. So Hamilton it was. But I don't think they went into this season thinking, well, if we tank, let's just trade the two faces of this organization.

I understand all of the manlove for Hamilton but cut the cord, folks. He's a Texas Ranger now. Because, a good Christian like Hamilton would remind you that coveting is a sin.

kpresidente
08-13-2008, 01:15 PM
I for one am not one... This team and people on the board complain about Dunn wanting 100 Million Dollar contract but this team pays 3 Million for a guy hitting less than .200... And then say, "Atleast he plays good defense"


Right. That seems to be the general feeling about Patterson. :rolleyes:

I mean, sometimes all I see around here is Patterson apologists.

Hondo
08-13-2008, 01:19 PM
Different GMs. Different players. Different attributes. Even if Dunn's bat was combined with Patterson's defense, I still say there's no way you pay him $125-million.


Who says they were at the start of this season? They needed pitching and you were not going to get Volquez for Dunn or Griffey. So Hamilton it was. But I don't think they went into this season thinking, well, if we tank, let's just trade the two faces of this organization.

I understand all of the manlove for Hamilton but cut the cord, folks. He's a Texas Ranger now. Because, a good Christian like Hamilton would remind you that coveting is a sin.

Dude, it is not madlove for Josh Hamilton... Volquez had been demoted to A ball and career stats were like 4-11, with a 6.36 ERA...

All time Low value is what I was saying...

I also understand that they didn't know that they were letting Griffey and Dunn go... But lets be real... Dunn was a Free Agent... You are either going to pay him or your not... Griffey was due either 16 Million or 4 Million buy out... Um, you are going to buy him out or trade him to a contender... The organization did't just decide on a random day in July and August to move those guys....

Also I wasn't suggestign combining the 2 would be worth 100-125 MILLION. No other team in the majors would pay a guy 3 million who has zero offers. No other team would keep playing any player making 3 Million or 390,000 that is hitting .200 or lower... My gosh, even the Royals benched Tony Pena Jr. for his .150 BA and he played GREAT defense...

Anyway... Volquez has came to Earth the last few games, albeit the game versus the Pirates last night, and Josh has 28 Homers and 111 RBI...

Oh, ok...

Anyway... Bob C said win now. Krivisky was fired... Now there is a payroll purge... This team isn't even concerend with playing .500 ball or finishing above .500... so is is a joke...

Everything from Bob C's first press conference to firing Krivisky (who I didn't like anyway), to this Adam Dunn Trade...

kpresidente
08-13-2008, 01:26 PM
The organization did't just decide on a random day in July and August to move those guys....


I think you're wrong, at least about Dunn. WK might have tried to sign him. WJ let it be known from the get-go he didn't want him around.

Two different GMs could very easily had different plans.

Anyway, I'd rather have Volquez than Hamilton. Volquez is 6th in the majors in ERA pitching out of a hitters park. Hamilton is only 19th in OPS hitting in a hitters park. In other words, Volquez is a better pitcher than Hamilton is a hitter. That's pretty much the whole story.

BurgervilleBuck
08-13-2008, 01:34 PM
Dude, it is not madlove for Josh Hamilton... Volquez had been demoted to A ball and career stats were like 4-11, with a 6.36 ERA...
But he had potential. That's what the Reds were looking at. After all, who thought a former self-destructive, drug using, arrogant flame out would be worth a pick up? The Reds did last year with Hamilton.


I also understand that they didn't know that they were letting Griffey and Dunn go... But lets be real... Dunn was a Free Agent... You are either going to pay him or your not... Griffey was due either 16 Million or 4 Million buy out... Um, you are going to buy him out or trade him to a contender... The organization did't just decide on a random day in July and August to move those guys....
I'm sure that the organization went into this season thinking that this could be the last year for one or both of them. However, those were matters that would wait until the off-season.

At the trade deadline, nobody wanted Griffey or Dunn, or were going to offer anything that was more useful than a box of toothpicks.


Anyway... Bob C said win now. Krivisky was fired... Now there is a payroll purge... This team isn't even concerend with playing .500 ball or finishing above .500... so is is a joke...

Everything from Bob C's first press conference to firing Krivisky (who I didn't like anyway), to this Adam Dunn Trade...
First off, this isn't a payroll purge. If so then Cordero, Arroyo, Harang and several other players would be gone. The Reds were willing to spend money to get Dunn and Junior off the team. They've eaten a lot of contracts this season.


Also, I'd like to know how you divine that this organization isn't concerned with playing .500 ball. What article did you read that nugget of wisdom in?

In my opinion, this organization is still recovering from the Schott/Lindner/Bowden era. Castellini made the mistake of trying to go for the quick fixes rather than continue the plan Dan O'Brien had. It's going to be another year or so before all of that gets straightened out.

tsj017
08-13-2008, 01:35 PM
Nah, the best thing is watching the pro-Dunn forces go into complete toddler-meltdown mode, venting at everything in sight--Marty, Cincinnati sports media, Reds fans, Pete Rose, the Big Red Machine, Jocketty, Castellini, maybe even Peanut Jim Shelton--because the Reds traded a one-dimensional defensive liability who we most likely wouldn't have re-signed anyway.

They're right, and EVERYBODY ELSE is wrong.

It's been quite entertaining.

Hondo
08-13-2008, 01:39 PM
Nah, the best thing is watching the pro-Dunn forces go into complete toddler-meltdown mode, venting at everything in sight--Marty, Cincinnati sports media, Reds fans, Pete Rose, the Big Red Machine, Jocketty, Castellini, maybe even Peanut Jim Shelton--because the Reds traded a one-dimensional defensive liability who we most likely wouldn't have re-signed anyway.

They're right, and EVERYBODY ELSE is wrong.

It's been quite entertaining.

Dude, your post is RUDE #1, and the Dunn supporters could say the same exact thing about you... You think you are right and there is no other way about it...

Thats a great Post though... Atleast the other guys who disagree with me are debating and not throwing out Garbage texts like that...

Toddler- Meldown Mode, yeah you are the joke.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-13-2008, 04:34 PM
there are more dunn threads right now than i EVER remember there being.. and he has been gone for 2 days..

Kingspoint
08-13-2008, 05:08 PM
...no more Dunn threads. :D

RU kidding me? There'll be a lot of Dunn threads. He still hits 40 homeruns a year and at 28 is having his best year ever. It will get more one-sided though as nobody has to watch his defense any more on a day-to-day basis. It's likely they never see his defense again unless it's a playoff game or they're facing the REDS. It will just be the SportsCenter highlights 40 times a year.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-13-2008, 05:14 PM
the sportscenter highlight of him half trying to get to that ball last night on the double was plenty of reason for me to lift a glass and smile..

levydl
08-13-2008, 05:59 PM
the sportscenter highlight of him half trying to get to that ball last night on the double was plenty of reason for me to lift a glass and smile..

I think he was nervous playing RF for the first time in a while. Just like you thought Dickerson was.

Lockdwn11
08-13-2008, 06:08 PM
I think he was nervous playing RF for the first time in a while. Just like you thought Dickerson was.

No, he is just a bad outfielder.I think it was the D-backs that were nervous having Dunn playing Right.

BLEEDS
08-13-2008, 06:08 PM
the sportscenter highlight of him half trying to get to that ball last night on the double was plenty of reason for me to lift a glass and smile..

Yeah, don't talk about Dickerson like that! He's probably going to hit 15 HR's next year!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Lockdwn11
08-13-2008, 06:11 PM
Yeah, don't talk about Dickerson like that! He's probably going to hit 15 HR's next year!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

If we get 15 Hrs out of Dickerson while playing Gold glove defense in CF I will be more than pleased.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-14-2008, 12:22 PM
i see no reason why we cant think dickerson is capable of 10-15 homers with his great defense..

redsbuckeye
08-14-2008, 12:31 PM
i see no reason why we cant think dickerson is capable of 10-15 homers with his great defense..

Low average, hits homers, gets walks and strikesout a lot. If it weren't for the defense, he'd be Dunn (ok and he really doesn't hit many homers).

Ahhhorsepoo
08-14-2008, 12:39 PM
reds.. he doesnt strikeout nearly 200 times a year.. and wont cost this ball team 20 mil a year.. for 4 mil a year his kind of play is a GREAT piece..

OUReds
08-14-2008, 12:43 PM
Dickerson struck out 162 times in 468 ABs last year

Dunn struck out 165 times in 522 ABs last year

redsbuckeye
08-14-2008, 12:47 PM
reds.. he doesnt strikeout nearly 200 times a year.. and wont cost this ball team 20 mil a year.. for 4 mil a year his kind of play is a GREAT piece..

Actually Dickerson strikes out about 27% of his plate appearances. Dunn is 26%.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-14-2008, 12:49 PM
that was the most ever for dickerson, and one of the best seasons ever for dunn..

Ahhhorsepoo
08-14-2008, 12:49 PM
dickerson is also still getting use to better and better pitching.. dunn has seen the same caliber pitchers for 8 years..

Ahhhorsepoo
08-14-2008, 12:52 PM
look i understnad all the whining babies who want dunn back.. will hate dickerson for "Taking" his spot.. but any person that isnt the red sox yankees mets or tigers.. knows that the return for a player who brings slightly less to the table, but with a far better price tag is a far better investment..

redsbuckeye
08-14-2008, 12:53 PM
that was the most ever for dickerson, and one of the best seasons ever for dunn..

Those are career numbers i posted (minor league for Dickerson).

redsbuckeye
08-14-2008, 12:55 PM
dickerson is also still getting use to better and better pitching.. dunn has seen the same caliber pitchers for 8 years..

He didn't do it in the minors, how is he going to do it in the majors?

redsbuckeye
08-14-2008, 12:55 PM
look i understnad all the whining babies who want dunn back.. will hate dickerson for "Taking" his spot.. but any person that isnt the red sox yankees mets or tigers.. knows that the return for a player who brings slightly less to the table, but with a far better price tag is a far better investment..

Ahh, deflection time. Let's change the subject and not admit to being wrong.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-14-2008, 12:59 PM
yeah.. and like i said you normally see an increase as you go up.. but anyone who works on it.. will get better yearly as they see the same caliber..

also dunns k/AB ratio is higher..

I AM NOT SAYING HE WILL REPLACE HIS OFFENSE..

but his defense and his much lower cost will make him more valuable to this team when it comes to building a team.. and not just 1 or 2 all stars with a cast of fools like the last 8 years..

Ahhhorsepoo
08-14-2008, 01:00 PM
Ahh, deflection time. Let's change the subject and not admit to being wrong.

It's amazing that everyone else must watch me argue when i state my OPINION based on facts..

I am truly sorry for the people who are sick of watching me and a few others argue over my opinion.. since we are all entitled to one..

redsbuckeye
08-14-2008, 01:06 PM
yeah.. and like i said you normally see an increase as you go up.. but anyone who works on it.. will get better yearly as they see the same caliber..

Show me some players who do.


also dunns k/AB ratio is higher..

That's misleading, Dunn walks more and makes fewer outs but the walks don't show up as at bats.


I AM NOT SAYING HE WILL REPLACE HIS OFFENSE..

but his defense and his much lower cost will make him more valuable to this team when it comes to building a team.. and not just 1 or 2 all stars with a cast of fools like the last 8 years..

Hey I'm just pointing out Dickerson does strike out a lot, contrary to what you think.

redsbuckeye
08-14-2008, 01:07 PM
It's amazing that everyone else must watch me argue when i state my OPINION based on facts..

I am truly sorry for the people who are sick of watching me and a few others argue over my opinion.. since we are all entitled to one..

Opinions can be wrong too.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-14-2008, 01:11 PM
Show me some players who do.



That's misleading, Dunn walks more and makes fewer outs but the walks don't show up as at bats.



Hey I'm just pointing out Dickerson does strike out a lot, contrary to what you think.

have i ever thought he didnt strikeout alot? NO, just it is my understanding that his strikeouts have gone up as he has gone up the ladder.. but according to a buddy of mine who watched him down in loserville.. he got alot better at the plate as he adjusted to the better pitching..

have i thought dunn strikesout too much for his contract..

redsbuckeye
08-14-2008, 01:15 PM
You said this:


reds.. he doesnt strikeout nearly 200 times a year.. and wont cost this ball team 20 mil a year.. for 4 mil a year his kind of play is a GREAT piece..

I contended that and pointed that the strikeout %s are about the same. If Dickerson got as many plate appearances as Dunn, he'd get the same amount of Ks. End of story.

I haven't gotten into contract talk, but if Dickerson isn't helping you win, what's the point? You have to pay someone to help the team win.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-14-2008, 01:21 PM
dickerson does help the team win.. with defense.. something this team hasnt had in years.. since well 1999..........

redsbuckeye
08-14-2008, 01:23 PM
dickerson does help the team win.. with defense.. something this team hasnt had in years.. since well 1999..........

Ok. How much will he help the team win? Give me a number. Or give me a run differential. Give me something otherwise this is just another baseless assertion.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-14-2008, 01:24 PM
what number that you have supplied hasn't been either a baseless assertion or a number based on a subjective stat that was created?

both are opinionated.. neither can be 100% backed up by a stat.. LETS BE HONEST..

redsbuckeye
08-14-2008, 01:50 PM
what number that you have supplied hasn't been either a baseless assertion or a number based on a subjective stat that was created?

That's what I'm trying to get across to you, the stats are NOT subjective, they are objectively based and tested to predict accurate results. After all, what good is a stat if it doesn't tell you anything useful?

Go to baseballprospectus.com and look up VORP, WARP, EQA and the like.

Edit: And when I used those stats above you trashed them without knowing how they actually work.


both are opinionated.. neither can be 100% backed up by a stat.. LETS BE HONEST..

No, false, it has nothing to do with opinions. The stats use base measures (like hits, walks, etc) that are ojective events. If baseball can't be backed up by 100% statistics, then it has to be 99.999%