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44Magnum
08-11-2008, 04:48 PM
I am starting to like the direction of the team. Out with the old and in with the new. Let's just hope that the new is better than the old was. Not that it would take much!

Fon Duc Tow
08-11-2008, 04:50 PM
I hope you mean next year, unless you think Patterson/Cabrerra is somehow better than Dunn/Griffey.

redsbuckeye
08-11-2008, 04:57 PM
In maybe 5 or 6 years, when the team is sold again and Dusty has been fired and the front office has been replaced.

BurgervilleBuck
08-11-2008, 05:02 PM
There are some Reds fans who see the glass as half-empty. There are some Reds fans that see the glass as half-full. And then there are the Reds fans who wonder why in the heck we bother having a glass.

Orodle
08-11-2008, 09:00 PM
We should probably just run an isolation play for Bruce everytime down the floor.....wait wrong sport.

JWP
08-11-2008, 10:10 PM
Do people honestly think that this team is better having traded away Adam Dunn?

Slyder
08-11-2008, 10:12 PM
I'm going to laugh if Dunn is batting 2nd or 3rd with real protection and goes absolutely bonkers in Arizona. Just like Griffey to the White Sox the rest of baseball shows exactly what Duhhhsty Baker is... a moron.

Marge'sMullet
08-11-2008, 10:39 PM
The Reds didn't win with Dunn or Griffey for years........LIKE EVERY YEAR THEY HAVE BEEN HERE!

So why don't you give Jockety a chance to make the team he wants. He should have plenty of money next year now.

It should would be nice to have Hamilton though.

SarasotaFan
08-11-2008, 11:07 PM
Reds are still going to lose...

Chi-Town Red
08-11-2008, 11:19 PM
when your on the bottom,there is nowhere else to go but up

keeganbrick
08-11-2008, 11:23 PM
Wish we woulda signed him LT. Really dont see what else is out there that will be better for this team. Offense could be really anemic for us next year.

CRedsLarkin11
08-12-2008, 01:11 AM
I can't really understand why there are so many upset folks here about Adam Dunn being traded. I am a Reds fan... not a fan of particular players. This team has never really committed to rebuilding, call it grasping for straws(and it may be) but I have faith that this team needs a fresh start with youth. Small market teams like the Reds have to take a different approach and it looks like they are heading in that direction. Everyone who loves Dunn will bash the Reds as they continue to fall the rest of the season and likely finish in last and say, haha, you don't know anything... but this is a marathon, not a sprint. It's going to take a long time to build the Reds into a winner and Dunn would not have been a part of that. Of course, you don't have to agree with me but I am actually going to have some faith here and believe in a rebuilding experiment. Hell, what's the worst that can happen? The last 13 years haven't exactly been a success(yes, even the ones with Dunn, guys)

Kingspoint
08-12-2008, 01:29 AM
If I lived in Cincinnati right now, I'd be trying to scoop up some season tickets from someone who's disgruntled over the trade and then say, "No Thanks", to them the next couple of years when they try to buy some back from you.

fadetoblack2880
08-12-2008, 01:34 AM
Do people honestly think that this team is better having traded away Adam Dunn?

Seemingly, yes. I don't know yet. I'm holding out to see who the other two players are. I hate to see Dunn go, but if the Reds get a decent return, it will make the trade less painfull.

Kingspoint
08-12-2008, 03:15 AM
Do people honestly think that this team is better having traded away Adam Dunn?

Yes, I will take the combination over the next five or six (what it would have taken to keep Dunn in a REDS' uniform) seasons of Sean Henry, Daniel Dorn, Chris Dickerson, Drew Stubbs, Shaun Cumberland, Jerry Hairston, Joey Votto (when Alonzo gets here in Sep of '10, he'll be at 1B pushing Votto to the Outfield), and Jeff Keppinger (he has played Left Field), and Dallas Buck and the PTBNL's and others over Dunn in a heartbeat.

DannyB
08-12-2008, 05:53 PM
I'm going to laugh if Dunn is batting 2nd or 3rd with real protection and goes absolutely bonkers in Arizona. Just like Griffey to the White Sox the rest of baseball shows exactly what Duhhhsty Baker is... a moron.

I really think thats going to happen.

Fon Duc Tow
08-12-2008, 06:37 PM
Like a Duhhhhagger in my heart every time they show Dunn going yard in a Diamondbacks uniform.

Then flash back to that stupid toothpick and mindless stare.

2 more years...

BLEEDS
08-12-2008, 06:44 PM
2 more years...

I agree. We might be able to field a winning team then.

Of course that will be the LAST year of Harang/Arroyo/Cordero, and the FIRST of/before Arbitration for Bruce/Votto/Volquez/Cueto/Bailey and Free Agency for EE/Keppinger

ONE year to win it all before we have to start dumping salaries/making trades because we can't afford to keep all of our young talent.

ONE year every 15-20 years to compete for the postseason. THAT'S Cincinnati Baseball fellas!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

improbus
08-12-2008, 11:00 PM
Any rebuilding project that involved keeping Dunn would have been a waste. It wasn't Dunn's fault that the Reds lost, but that doesn't mean that they should have kept him. Here's the recipe (in order of priorities):
1) Pitching
2) Pitching
3) Pitching
I don't care if the Reds are the worst offensive team in baseball. In GABP, if they don't have outstanding pitching they will never win.

improbus
08-12-2008, 11:16 PM
By my account (including injuries), there are only 6 players on the 25 man roster who were on last years opening day roster.
6 new everyday lineup guys
5 new bench guys
1 new closer
3 new starters
4 new relievers

Unbelievable...

tsj017
08-13-2008, 08:38 AM
Reds are undefeated post-Dunn.

Print the playoff tickets!

Kingspoint
08-13-2008, 05:01 PM
This is the most young talent that's been assembled together on a REDS ballfield since the late 60's.

These are the games I love to watch....young, talented players making adjustments to their games and then watching the rewards of all the hard work that they've put in to get to this point.

Dreams are being lived on the REDS' ballfield right now.

The talent is there now to go for the playoffs each of the next several years beginning in 2009. One more veteran starting pitcher, like possibly Derek Lowe is needed to get them there.

The over/under next year will certainly be in the high-70's again, but with the developing players that are here, they could easily get to the High-80's and that would be contending for the playoffs.

Enjoy it. I know I'm going to love every bit of being a REDS' fan for the next 7 years. I've gone through Hell with this club since 1977 with only the 1990 club to come away with a Ring. One Ring in 41 years. The next one is coming during these next 7 years and the Adventure begins right now.

757690
08-13-2008, 05:10 PM
This is the most young talent that's been assembled together on a REDS ballfield since the late 60's.

These are the games I love to watch....young, talented players making adjustments to their games and then watching the rewards of all the hard work that they've put in to get to this point.

Dreams are being lived on the REDS' ballfield right now.

The talent is there now to go for the playoffs each of the next several years beginning in 2009. One more veteran starting pitcher, like possibly Derek Lowe is needed to get them there.

The over/under next year will certainly be in the high-70's again, but with the developing players that are here, they could easily get to the High-80's and that would be contending for the playoffs.

Enjoy it. I know I'm going to love every bit of being a REDS' fan for the next 7 years. I've gone through Hell with this club since 1977 with only the 1990 club to come away with a Ring. One Ring in 41 years. The next one is coming during these next 7 years and the Adventure begins right now.

What are you doing? This is Redszone, optimism is not allowed!

Actually, a nice, refreshing post, I agree on all counts. The groundwork has been laid for a talented team to succeed, if the right moves are made and patience is practiced. At the very least it will be much more fun to watch than the last 7 years.

:thumbup:

Ahhhorsepoo
08-13-2008, 05:13 PM
kingspoint.. great post.. you have summed up how i have felt about this new era for 3 years (just waited for it to start).. unfortunately some people still think we dont have anything in the cupboard..

Ghosts of 1990
08-13-2008, 05:17 PM
I love the reds, I love the young players. But we're not going to win a World Series in 7 years. That is just reality. We'll also trade away any of those good young players before they're eligible for a LTC, just like we did Dunn.

People gripe about Dunn wanting $100 million, the rumor of it. They say that we could never pay it. What if Jay Bruce wants $100 million and he's "worth it". Or Volquez? Or.....

None of these guys will ever stay for long like the quality franchises do for their players. It's just the reality of being a bottom feeding reds fan.

BLEEDS
08-13-2008, 05:19 PM
Yeah, what's not to love about a lineup featuring 5 guys batting under .255.

I love the future for Votto, Bruce, and EE - but we have NOTHING around them, other than an over-hyped 2nd baseman who can't hit RHP to save his life.

Our offense is going to be HORRID for the next 5 years unless we make a MAJOR acquisition in the off-season. Dickerson/Patterson/Freel/Hopper aren't the answer in the OF, and we have no future at SS.

I like our pitching much better. Volquez and Cueto are going to be good for awhile, but they are only going to have Harang and Arroyo for a couple more years - and I don't see us winning anything in that window of opportunity as the roster is currently.

Any pipe dream of a Derek Lowe or a Mark Texeira coming into Cincinnati is frought with so many holes - the only way they'd come here is if we were the Highest Bidder AND signed 2-3 other big name FA's, at the Highest Bid. NOBODY in their right mind would want to come play for this band of misfit toys.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

mroby85
08-13-2008, 05:22 PM
I love the reds, I love the young players. But we're not going to win a World Series in 7 years. That is just reality. We'll also trade away any of those good young players before they're eligible for a LTC, just like we did Dunn.

People gripe about Dunn wanting $100 million, the rumor of it. They say that we could never pay it. What if Jay Bruce wants $100 million and he's "worth it". Or Volquez? Or.....

None of these guys will ever stay for long like the quality franchises do for their players. It's just the reality of being a bottom feeding reds fan.


Adam Dunn wasn't worth $100 million, if he was they may have paid it. He played terrible defense, and was streaky as all get out. He's not a $100 million player imo, Jay Bruce or Volquez have the potential to be.

redsbuckeye
08-13-2008, 05:24 PM
Adam Dunn wasn't worth $100 million, if he was they may have paid it. He played terrible defense, and was streaky as all get out. He's not a $100 million player imo, Jay Bruce or Volquez have the potential to be.

What Dunn wants and what Dunn actually gets are two different things.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-13-2008, 05:25 PM
Bleeds.. Phill has as high BA against Righties than Dunn does against them.. and against lefties dunn is even lower...

you said hit.. soo you can't include walks.. soo dont look at OBP..

just wanted to make your statement resonate on both sides.. since you think Dunn is god of all softball kings..

Ahhhorsepoo
08-13-2008, 05:26 PM
Adam Dunn wasn't worth $100 million, if he was they may have paid it. He played terrible defense, and was streaky as all get out. He's not a $100 million player imo, Jay Bruce or Volquez have the potential to be.

mroby.. a good friend named Bleeds told me defense is WAY overrated and didn't matter.. and his yearly totals showed he was consistent.. not his weekly ups and downs..

schmidty622
08-13-2008, 05:29 PM
I love the reds, I love the young players. But we're not going to win a World Series in 7 years. That is just reality. We'll also trade away any of those good young players before they're eligible for a LTC, just like we did Dunn.

People gripe about Dunn wanting $100 million, the rumor of it. They say that we could never pay it. What if Jay Bruce wants $100 million and he's "worth it". Or Volquez? Or.....

None of these guys will ever stay for long like the quality franchises do for their players. It's just the reality of being a bottom feeding reds fan.

Then why are you still here? We get it, the Reds traded away your favorite player, grow up and move on.

DannyB
08-13-2008, 05:40 PM
Looks like theres only 3 people in the ticket line right now.

Lockdwn11
08-13-2008, 05:41 PM
For me it was alot more fun watching the game last night then it was a week ago.I mean I had pretty much lost interest in watching a team (my team)going no where fast but I watched as hard as it was at times. Last night I got to see the future of this team the young guys with more good young players (Todd Frazier, Chris Valaika, Josh Roenicke) soon to follow not to mention the players WJ may bring in this off-season I like where this team is going.

757690
08-13-2008, 05:53 PM
Yeah, what's not to love about a lineup featuring 5 guys batting under .255.

I love the future for Votto, Bruce, and EE - but we have NOTHING around them, other than an over-hyped 2nd baseman who can't hit RHP to save his life.

Our offense is going to be HORRID for the next 5 years unless we make a MAJOR acquisition in the off-season. Dickerson/Patterson/Freel/Hopper aren't the answer in the OF, and we have no future at SS.

I like our pitching much better. Volquez and Cueto are going to be good for awhile, but they are only going to have Harang and Arroyo for a couple more years - and I don't see us winning anything in that window of opportunity as the roster is currently.

Any pipe dream of a Derek Lowe or a Mark Texeira coming into Cincinnati is frought with so many holes - the only way they'd come here is if we were the Highest Bidder AND signed 2-3 other big name FA's, at the Highest Bid. NOBODY in their right mind would want to come play for this band of misfit toys.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Most teams would love to have Bruce/Votto/EE/Phillips to build around on offense and Valquez/Cueto/Harang/Arroyo/Owings as their rotation.

The Reds need a real cleanup hitter and if they can get one, I think they'll be fine offensively. Bruce may even become that in a few years. Until then, I am sure Jocketty will get one, either through trade or free agency. Don't ask how, or who, as this world it too unpredictable to figure out like that. I mean, I never would have guessed that the Reds could get anything for Griffey, or a player like Owings (plus two others) for Dunn. With Jocketty, expect the unexpected.

But most importantly, the Reds need to improve their defense, and Jocketty has a great record on that. It looks like he is headed in that direction with the call ups of Dickerson and Hanigan.

All reasons to be optimistic.

kpresidente
08-13-2008, 06:15 PM
Most teams would love to have Bruce/Votto/EE/Phillips to build around on offense and Valquez/Cueto/Harang/Arroyo/Owings as their rotation.

The Reds need a real cleanup hitter and if they can get one, I think they'll be fine offensively. Bruce may even become that in a few years. Until then, I am sure Jocketty will get one, either through trade or free agency. Don't ask how, or who, as this world it too unpredictable to figure out like that. I mean, I never would have guessed that the Reds could get anything for Griffey, or a player like Owings (plus two others) for Dunn. With Jocketty, expect the unexpected.

But most importantly, the Reds need to improve their defense, and Jocketty has a great record on that. It looks like he is headed in that direction with the call ups of Dickerson and Hanigan.

All reasons to be optimistic.

Plus we just drafted a near-ML-ready guy who's supposed to be a future cleanup hitter.

I'm with you. Fill a roster with guys that OB .350-.360 and SLG .490-.500 and you'll have a great offense. You don't need a superstar.

Our future already has 4 guys that fit that profile in Phillips, EE, Votto and Bruce. Add the guys in the minors who are projecting the same....Dorn, Frazier and soon enough Alonso. Then you've got a bunch of good role-players and fill-ins in Kepp, Hopper, Dickerson and Valaika, Richar, Cumberland, Henry in the minors.

The only thing we need is catching.

mroby85
08-13-2008, 06:34 PM
mroby.. a good friend named Bleeds told me defense is WAY overrated and didn't matter.. and his yearly totals showed he was consistent.. not his weekly ups and downs..

Ahhhorsepoo, your friend bleeds must not watch very much reds baseball, and if he does watch reds baseball, then that makes it even more sad to come up with those assessments. Finally, anyone who said that defense is overrated, i would no longer have any reason to listen to the rest of what they said after that.

BLEEDS
08-13-2008, 06:36 PM
I'm with you. Fill a roster with guys that OB .350-.360 and SLG .490-.500 and you'll have a great offense. You don't need a superstar.

Our future already has 4 guys that fit that profile in Phillips, EE, Votto and Bruce.

Did you actually check the stats before you posted that one? You just projected these guys to be .840 OPS, is that correct? We'll be lucky if ONE of them can get above .800, and NONE of these guys projects anything remotely close to .350 OBP - other than Votto, who I think will be hard pressed to do that unless they put him in the 2 hole where he belongs.

EE is the only guy that MIGHT get anywhere clsoe to .840 in his career in the next 3 years.

I do have high hoped for Bruce in the power department, but he's hard-pressed to get above .320 OBP, just like BP.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Griffey012
08-13-2008, 06:52 PM
Did you actually check the stats before you posted that one? You just projected these guys to be .840 OPS, is that correct? We'll be lucky if ONE of them can get above .800, and NONE of these guys projects anything remotely close to .350 OBP - other than Votto, who I think will be hard pressed to do that unless they put him in the 2 hole where he belongs.

EE is the only guy that MIGHT get anywhere clsoe to .840 in his career in the next 3 years.

I do have high hoped for Bruce in the power department, but he's hard-pressed to get above .320 OBP, just like BP.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Yea, because typically top prospects don't improve any from their rookie seasons in the bigs. Where is your justification for your bold statement?

Blue
08-13-2008, 07:01 PM
The talent is there now to go for the playoffs each of the next several years beginning in 2009. One more veteran starting pitcher, like possibly Derek Lowe is needed to get them there.

The over/under next year will certainly be in the high-70's again, but with the developing players that are here, they could easily get to the High-80's and that would be contending for the playoffs.

I don't see it, with or without Dunn. Phillips is a certified out-machine, Bruce can't get on-base at this point, Reds fans overrate Votto, EE may be a very good player or may stink, AAAA types with no range man shortstop, no leftfielder, no centerfielder, catchers who stink, Arroyo couldn't break glass, Bailey, Thompson, and Maloney all have major issues to work out, Harang is off his game, Cueto may be young but has a 5.01 ERA through 24 starts, Cordero was a huge waste of money, Owings is nothing special as a pitcher, but could be good as a hitter, maybe.

The roster is a mess. The Reds are more than a couple of moves away.

I(heart)Freel
08-13-2008, 07:32 PM
(sorry, wrong thread)

BLEEDS
08-13-2008, 07:41 PM
Where is your justification for your bold statement?

Well, one of the reasons they kept Bruce in AAA so long, is because they wanted him to cut down on his K's and increase his BB's so they could get his projected MLB OBP up in the .340 range. This was well documented by the FO.

He's still projected to K about once a game, other than that, that's the only stat he's carrying forward from the minors right now.

Go ahead though, don't let me stop you from projecting prospects to hit their ceilings within 2-3 years of hitting the bigs. It happens all the time.

I don't have a problem with young guys, I can live with their growth and bumps in that road, but you need to surround them with consistent veterans if you want to succceed.

Hanging your entire hopes on 3 rookie and one reclamation project position players, and 3 rookie pitchers, hoping they ALL have steady, consistent growth every year is not a recipe for success.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
08-13-2008, 07:42 PM
oh - and his current OBP is .316...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Griffey012
08-13-2008, 07:54 PM
oh - and his current OBP is .316...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Exactly, it's his rookie season, his first taste of the bigs at 21 years old. He will likely be batting .300 in the future, his obp will at least go up because of that.

And by bold statement I was just talking about Bruce's OBP staying in the Phillips range, I agree with the rest of your post.

redsfanmia
08-13-2008, 08:02 PM
This is the most young talent that's been assembled together on a REDS ballfield since the late 60's.

The late 1980's say hello.

Chi-Town Red
08-13-2008, 08:14 PM
The only way for the team to compete is through the farm system. because i hate to break it to you, not many free agents want to go to Cincinnati...

BLEEDS
08-13-2008, 08:16 PM
Exactly, it's his rookie season, his first taste of the bigs at 21 years old. He will likely be batting .300 in the future, his obp will at least go up because of that.

And by bold statement I was just talking about Bruce's OBP staying in the Phillips range, I agree with the rest of your post.

I never said staying, I said struggling to get there currently. I don't expect him to raise it 30 points in one year.

BP is another issue, he's never raised his one iota, and is actually worse than ever, and has a GLARING weakness 70% of the time he's hitting.

I don't know if Bruce will ever hit .300 in his career, but .285/.290 with a .340 OBP would be nice to see in a year or two. If and when he starts SLG-ing in the .500 range, then you might see his OBP go up as people will pitch around him much like they do Dunn now - especially in RISP opportunities with 1st base open. That should get the pitchforks and torches back out!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
08-13-2008, 08:17 PM
I don't see it, with or without Dunn. Phillips is a certified out-machine, Bruce can't get on-base at this point, Reds fans overrate Votto, EE may be a very good player or may stink, AAAA types with no range man shortstop, no leftfielder, no centerfielder, catchers who stink, Arroyo couldn't break glass, Bailey, Thompson, and Maloney all have major issues to work out, Harang is off his game, Cueto may be young but has a 5.01 ERA through 24 starts, Cordero was a huge waste of money, Owings is nothing special as a pitcher, but could be good as a hitter, maybe.

The roster is a mess. The Reds are more than a couple of moves away.

And I thought I was a tad pessimistic these days!! ;)

PEACE

-BLEEDS

OUReds
08-13-2008, 08:17 PM
So we're going to stink next year, but be great later when all the kids pan out and improve?

I think I've heard that one before. Based on the recent history of the franchise, forgive me if I am not jumping for joy.

BLEEDS
08-13-2008, 08:18 PM
So we're going to stink next year, but be great later when all the kids pan out and improve?

I think I've heard that one before. Forgive me if I am not jumping for joy.

Don't worry, we'll have 3 $12M pitchers while we stink for the next 3 years, so all is good!!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Marge'sMullet
08-13-2008, 08:40 PM
The Reds need to change the culture of the team. IMO, Griffey and Dunn set a bad tone for the rest of the players.

ChatterRed
08-13-2008, 08:47 PM
I think Volquez will come down to earth and be more of a 3.50 pitcher and Cueto will improve to be a 3.50 pitcher. If you remove 3 bad outings from Arroyo, his e.r.a. is closer to 4.00 than 5.00. I'd keep him. Harang I am worried about. I would love to sign Lowe in the offseason.

Jr's Boy
08-13-2008, 09:27 PM
You can make an argument about Philips offense all you want,but his defense is stellar,and we need a few more like him.Hit all you want,but the Reds defense has stunk for so long and it has to be upgraded.Much like the starting pitching has been.

UPRedsFan
08-13-2008, 09:29 PM
With Owings, might Walt consider trading Arroyo for Burrell or some similar return? In my mind the biggest need is a right handed bat for left field that can OPS over 800

Griffey012
08-13-2008, 09:29 PM
I never said staying, I said struggling to get there currently. I don't expect him to raise it 30 points in one year.

BP is another issue, he's never raised his one iota, and is actually worse than ever, and has a GLARING weakness 70% of the time he's hitting.

I don't know if Bruce will ever hit .300 in his career, but .285/.290 with a .340 OBP would be nice to see in a year or two. If and when he starts SLG-ing in the .500 range, then you might see his OBP go up as people will pitch around him much like they do Dunn now - especially in RISP opportunities with 1st base open. That should get the pitchforks and torches back out!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

I thought you were meaning he would be hard pressed in his career to get his obp above .320 and would be there with phillips. Hopefully we will start to see the gappers and doubles from Bruce pour next year. His power will happen eventually.

Stephenk29
08-13-2008, 09:38 PM
With Owings, might Walt consider trading Arroyo for Burrell or some similar return? In my mind the biggest need is a right handed bat for left field that can OPS over 800

Burrell would only be a rental, and I doubt the Phillies dump him in the middle of a playoff race.

UPRedsFan
08-13-2008, 09:41 PM
I meant in the off season. When does Burrell become a free agent? 2010?

superred
08-13-2008, 09:45 PM
I meant in the off season. When does Burrell become a free agent? 2010?

at the end of this year

UPRedsFan
08-13-2008, 09:49 PM
Forget what I said Walt. Just sign him.

superred
08-13-2008, 09:54 PM
Forget what I said Walt. Just sign him.

why hes prettty much a right handed Adam Dunn

Chi-Town Red
08-13-2008, 10:35 PM
Reds are undefeated post-Dunn.

Print the playoff tickets!
not anymore

kpresidente
08-13-2008, 10:41 PM
Did you actually check the stats before you posted that one? You just projected these guys to be .840 OPS, is that correct?

Absolutely, I expect Votto, Bruce and Encarnacion to put up those numbers in the relatively near future. Not so much Phillips, but I'm thinking he's capable of .800. Bruce should eclipse that .840.

All these guys are young and improving. Bruce was hitting .365 in AAA at 21 when we called him but you don't think he'll be a .300 hitter in the majors? The numbers you gave for Bruce are what I'm expecting from Votto (more or less).

ChatterRed
08-13-2008, 11:17 PM
Burrell is better than Dunn in terms of average.

But why not just go for the gusto and trade/sign Teixeira or Holliday?

Kingspoint
08-13-2008, 11:48 PM
For me it was alot more fun watching the game last night then it was a week ago.I mean I had pretty much lost interest in watching a team (my team)going no where fast but I watched as hard as it was at times. Last night I got to see the future of this team the young guys with more good young players (Todd Frazier, Chris Valaika, Josh Roenicke) soon to follow not to mention the players WJ may bring in this off-season I like where this team is going.

Unfortunately, if you went tonight, you got to watch the "mentally challenged" Dusty Baker sit Dickerson so Patterson could play. What is insanely wrong with Dusty Baker.

I hate all ex-Dodgers, and Dusty Baker is at the top of the list.

Kingspoint
08-13-2008, 11:53 PM
The Reds need to change the culture of the team. IMO, Griffey and Dunn set a bad tone for the rest of the players.

With them gone and Alex Gonzalez back at SS next year, the TEAM ERA will drop by a full run per game.

We'll get to see more of Cordero.

Badoom-boom!

BLEEDS
08-14-2008, 12:40 AM
I thought you were meaning he would be hard pressed in his career to get his obp above .320 and would be there with phillips. Hopefully we will start to see the gappers and doubles from Bruce pour next year. His power will happen eventually.

I hope so too!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
08-14-2008, 12:43 AM
not anymore

more small-ball offense by the Reds.

Nice O-fer BP, you allegedly LHP killing machine!!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Ghosts of 1990
08-14-2008, 12:06 PM
Then why are you still here? We get it, the Reds traded away your favorite player, grow up and move on.

excellent question. Because I grew up playing baseball into my adult ages, I love baseball and the Reds are the team I sadly follow.

Jack Burton
08-15-2008, 11:38 AM
excellent question. Because I grew up playing baseball into my adult ages, I love baseball and the Reds are the team I sadly follow.

The trades were necessary for this teams success in the future, you should be able to see that.

4-28
08-15-2008, 08:01 PM
With them gone and Alex Gonzalez back at SS next year, the TEAM ERA will drop by a full run per game.

We'll get to see more of Cordero.

Badoom-boom!

You do realize that that projection would put the Reds as having the best pitching staff in the NL given current ERA numbers, correct? That's a complete and utter pipedream. It would be astounding to shave a half a run of the team ERA next year, much less a full run. And I hate to tell ya, but for that half run to happen, you're going to need to get a whole bunch of better pitchers, cause the defense isn't going to do it. While you'll get some improvement from Cueto, Volquez isn't likely to improve on this year much, nor is Arroyo, Harang at this point is a huge question mark, and half the bullpen still sucks something fierce. Having 9 gold glovers out there isn't going to make up for the pitching problems we still have.

Oh, and you're counting on a below average defensive shortstop to come off a devastating knee injury to shore up the defense? I wouldn't put that one in the bank either...

BLEEDS
08-16-2008, 12:43 PM
hey 4-28, he MAAAAY have been being sarcastic. I don't know...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

4-28
08-16-2008, 06:42 PM
hey 4-28, he MAAAAY have been being sarcastic. I don't know...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

If so, my bad, but I can't tell for certain either...

kpresidente
08-16-2008, 07:33 PM
While you'll get some improvement from Cueto, Volquez isn't likely to improve on this year much, nor is Arroyo, Harang at this point is a huge question mark, and half the bullpen still sucks something fierce. Having 9 gold glovers out there isn't going to make up for the pitching problems we still have.

Ah, you're way too down on the pitching. Our starting ERA will drop minimum 1/2 a run next year with no moves at all. Arroyo and Harang will bounce back, and Cueto will be around 4.00

4-28
08-16-2008, 11:48 PM
Ah, you're way too down on the pitching. Our starting ERA will drop minimum 1/2 a run next year with no moves at all. Arroyo and Harang will bounce back, and Cueto will be around 4.00

You mean the same Harang who got lit up tonight and has something obviously wrong with his arm? I wouldn't count on him for anything next year at this point. And Arroyo is no sure bet to get any better either. Then, what 5th starter are we coming up with that's going to drop the ERA? And for nearly every bit you project Cueto to progress, Volquez is likely to regress.

You're way too optimistic about our pitching. Unless we get a solid free agent starter (which we're not), this pitching staff is going to give us the same exact results we saw this year.