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OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 05:22 PM
With the trade of Dunn today, Dunner finishes his Reds career with a .247/.380/.520 - .900 OPS line. The .900 OPS is the second best in Reds history and his 270 homeruns are the fourth most in Reds history. He's also sixth in walks with 755. Dunner had a great career and finishes as one of the best offensive players in the long history of the Cincinnati Reds. Thanks a lot for all the great memories Dunn! You have been my favorite Red since the day the Reds called you up on July 20th, 2001. You represented the Reds well on and off the field. Good luck in Arizona!

wheels
08-11-2008, 05:26 PM
What he said.

Big Klu
08-11-2008, 05:27 PM
Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Adam Dunn - 270
5. Ted Kluszewski - 251
6. George Foster - 244
7. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 210
8. Eric Davis - 203
9. Barry Larkin - 198
10. Vada Pinson - 186
11. Wally Post - 172
12. Gus Bell - 160
13. Joe Morgan - 152
13. Pete Rose - 152
15. Lee May - 147
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96

LincolnparkRed
08-11-2008, 05:27 PM
I will miss seeing his long home runs when he came to wrigley. Some of the balls that were just foul were even more impressive.

Cyclone792
08-11-2008, 05:28 PM
Thanks for the memories, Dunn. You'll go down in Reds history as one of the franchise's greatest hitters and probably one of it's most underrated and underappreciated players.

Go win a pennant in Arizona and face Junior and the White Sox in October. Then go launch a few monster seasons, preferably in the National League so I can still watch you a couple times a year.

And if you tee off on Reds pitching in the future, I won't hold it against you; the Reds will just deserve it.

Good luck.

nate
08-11-2008, 05:29 PM
Let's also celebrate how incredibly durable and consistent his production was from season to season. Simply amazing how a big man could stay healthy, play 150 games a year and smack 40 HR.

A unique player, not without his flaws but a fascinating statistical study.

I wonder if Marty's wearing a shirt?

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 05:31 PM
Let's also celebrate how incredibly durable and consistent his production was from season to season. Simply amazing how a big man could stay healthy, play 150 games a year and smack 40 HR.

A unique player, not without his flaws but a fascinating statistical study.

I wonder if Marty's wearing a shirt?

Don't forget that he tore a ligament in his thumb during a game against the Astros in 2003 and then later in that same game belted a walk off homerun against Brad Lidge. And then in 2006 he played half the season with a broken wrist and yet never told anyone about it. In 2007 he played through a bum knee before finally undergoing surgery with a week left in the season. He is the definition of durable.

wheels
08-11-2008, 05:34 PM
Don't forget that he tore a ligament in his thumb during a game against the Astros in 2003 and then later in that same game belted a walk off homerun against Brad Lidge. And then in 2006 he played half the season with a broken wrist and yet never told anyone about it. In 2007 he played through a bum knee before finally undergoing surgery with a week left in the season. He iss the definition of durable.

What a slacker!

NC Reds
08-11-2008, 05:58 PM
Dunn has been my favorite Red for a long time now. Words can't adequately summarize how disappointed I am that he has been traded. I feel like this organization lost a big part of its soul today.

I hope he does a great job in Arizona and plays in a World Series this year. Arizona versus White Sox, please.

RichRed
08-11-2008, 06:04 PM
Two of my all-time favorite players wore #44 and were underappreciated by Reds fans: Eric Davis and Adam Dunn. I hate that Dunn will be smackin' homers and crackin' jokes in another uniform. He's an offensive force and I think we're going to feel the sting from this trade for a long time.

Here's to Dunn meeting up with his ol' buddy Junior in October for a few postseason laughs and trots around the bases.

Ltlabner
08-11-2008, 06:04 PM
Two words...

Walk-Off-Grandslam against the Indians

Caveat Emperor
08-11-2008, 06:05 PM
I can't imagine ever seeing Dunn in another uniform, but I can only hope the fans in Arizona will be more appreciative of his immense talent and skills than the fans in Cincinnati ever were.

Dunn wasn't a bragger, wasn't a loudmouth, rarely complained, and showed up for work every day. His eye at the plate was a true gift and his power is something I'll consider myself fortunate to see again. He played hurt, he played hard, and he played with immense pride in his work.

As a fan, I couldn't ask for anything more.

Best of luck to Dunner -- go smack around the AL West and do something about those idiot Cubs while you're at it.

SunDeck
08-11-2008, 06:16 PM
Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Adam Dunn - 270
5. Ted Kluszewski - 251


Four of the top five are Reds Hall of Famers, three out of five are MLB Hall of Famers. Not bad company, Dunner. Best wishes!

Sea Ray
08-11-2008, 06:47 PM
Dunn has been my favorite Red for a long time now. Words can't adequately summarize how disappointed I am that he has been traded. I feel like this organization lost a big part of its soul today.




I think the Reds' brass made a decision that the Reds needed a new soul. The Reds' soul during the Dunn years has been a losing one. I'm happy for him because he has had to put up with an awful lot of losing.

HokieRed
08-11-2008, 06:52 PM
I'm sorry to see Adam go but sorry too that the team couldn't have had more success during the years he was here. It certainly wasn't his fault. He's been a terrific, much underappreciated player who will be impossible to replace. With Griff gone and now Dunn, it's clearly a turning point in franchise history. Hope better days are ahead, but we should all be very appreciative of the effort and talent Adam brought to his play here. I will certainly miss the thrill of watching him bat, knowing that any at-bat could turn into a memorable home run.

SirFelixCat
08-11-2008, 06:53 PM
With the trade of Dunn today, Dunner finishes his Reds career with a .247/.380/.520 - .900 OPS line. The .900 OPS is the second best in Reds history and his 270 homeruns are the fourth most in Reds history. He's also sixth in walks with 755. Dunner had a great career and finishes as one of the best offensive players in the long history of the Cincinnati Reds. Thanks a lot for all the great memories Dunn! You have been my favorite Red since the day the Reds called you up on July 20th, 2001. You represented the Reds well on and off the field. Good luck in Arizona!


Thanks for the memories, Dunn. You'll go down in Reds history as one of the franchise's greatest hitters and probably one of it's most underrated and underappreciated players.

Go win a pennant in Arizona and face Junior and the White Sox in October. Then go launch a few monster seasons, preferably in the National League so I can still watch you a couple times a year.

And if you tee off on Reds pitching in the future, I won't hold it against you; the Reds will just deserve it.

Good luck.

What they said. You'll be missed and I hope you are more appreciated going forward than you ever were while a Red. Best of luck, Big Donkey!:thumbup:

WVRedsFan
08-11-2008, 07:01 PM
Adam Dunn was something. He was a kid playing X Box one minute and a man hitting a 400-foot plus homerun the next. Much like his good friend Junior Griffey, he could change the complexion of a game with one swing. He got on base often and seemed like a really nice guy. I'll miss him. In two weeks, the Reds have gone 1-9 since the departure of Griffey and you have to wonder if they will ever win without Dunn. Not a good day for me. Godspeed, Adam.

Degenerate39
08-11-2008, 07:08 PM
Adam Dunn was something. He was a kid playing X Box one minute and a man hitting a 400-foot plus homerun the next. Much like his good friend Junior Griffey, he could change the complexion of a game with one swing. He got on base often and seemed like a really nice guy. I'll miss him. In two weeks, the Reds have gone 1-9 since the departure of Griffey and you have to wonder if they will ever win without Dunn. Not a good day for me. Godspeed, Adam.

You just summed it all up for me.

I'll miss Dunn a lot. But I hope he has a great career out of Cincy

KittyDuran
08-11-2008, 07:14 PM
Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Adam Dunn - 270
5. Ted Kluszewski - 251
6. George Foster - 244
7. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 210
8. Eric Davis - 203
9. Barry Larkin - 198
10. Vada Pinson - 186
11. Wally Post - 172
12. Gus Bell - 160
13. Joe Morgan - 152
13. Pete Rose - 152
15. Lee May - 147
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96
I'm going to miss those posts, BK...:(

The Baumer
08-11-2008, 07:21 PM
Anyone think Dunn is going to start getting respect from analysts during the talking heads segments on ESPN that will go on in the next few days? I can see people start saying how they "always knew Dunn was a dangerous hitter and yeah he has his flaws but look at his OBP and OPS". They only seem to pump up players when it's in their favor, in this instance, they are going to be hyping the Diamondbacks, which is one of their teams. In the past, they had no reason to give praise to a player on a cellar dwelling Reds team.

KronoRed
08-11-2008, 07:52 PM
Sad day indeed, one of the best players this organization has produced in years, hopefully his future is filled less with whining about what he can't do and more with praise for what he's great at.

bucksfan2
08-11-2008, 08:07 PM
Dunn is an enigma. That is the best way to describe him. I don't think I have ever seen anyone with his skill set. If Dunn plays hot and focused baseball he could carry the DBacks to the pennant and through the playoffs. If Dunn hits one of his funks then he won't help the team at all.

If only could you bottle up Dunn's great weeks and you would have a very very dangerous player. I will forever remember Dunn for his walk off grand slam against the Indians. When it hit the ball it went a long way. The problem was he didn't hit the ball as often as most would like. Dunner sure was fun to watch and has one of the best nicknames in all of sports "The Big Donkey".

I will miss Dunn's towering homeruns as well as his problems fielding a fly ball in the wind. Seing him fall over fielding a ball last season's opening day was classic. If he moves to 1b he could hit 600 HR's. If he stays in the OF I have a feeling his career won't last as long. :beerme: Here's to you Adam Dunn. You sure were fun to watch. May you have many long long HR's and a successful career.

Big Klu
08-11-2008, 08:31 PM
I'm going to miss those posts, BK...:(

I'll start them up again when Edwin Encarnacion or Brandon Phillips hit another 32-34 more homers. :)

SteelSD
08-11-2008, 08:51 PM
Adam Dunn is the most under-appreciated Red ever. It honestly sickens me that the Reds were not able to cull more advertisting revenue from forwarding the concept that he was a player people should come out to watch. Especially for his age, his production as a Red has been historic, a concept lost on the awful announcers the Reds continue to employ, the inept radio stations the Reds continue to support, and an intense throng of nonsensical fans who have little idea how baseball actually works.

Adam Dunn has been a tough guy to take out. He's worked through many injuries over the course of his career and he's done so without excuse. He's smart. He's personable and funny. Those attributes would have earned him a better nickname than "Big Donkey" in the long-ago-time and his grit, determination, and consistency should have earned him better treatment from both the media and fans than we have seen. Had the Reds put a better team around him, who knows what folks might be calling him today. "Mr. October" didn't get there by himself. Not "clutch"? Nah. If that's the excuse, then we're not paying attention.

Instead, we saw a truly marketable player lambasted time after time for having the audacity to not be able to pitch a lick and not be able to coach a lick and not be able to make numerous front offices draft a lick or trade a lick or find anything resembling a cohesive team. In the end, Dunn's time ran out. He was here for every single moment of every single "win-now" scenario, but was always handcuffed by an owner and/or GM who really didn't know how.

Farewell, Adam Dunn. You're not an "enigma". You're just an incredibly productive player folks didn't appreciate because you're not someone who folks wanted you to be. You weren't appreciated not because you weren't productive. You weren't appreciated because you weren't nostalgic. You didn't allow folks to harken back to times where they recognized your game. And that's far more a commentary on Cincinnati Reds fans than it is you.

You have talent, you have drive, you have heart, you have the grit, and you have the soul. Now it's time for you to put it together for a team, and hopefully, a fan base that understands exactly how valuable you are.

cincinnati chili
08-11-2008, 08:57 PM
I agree he's among the most underrated Reds ever. Also, Dunn at his age is among the he most underappreciated since Frank Robinson was called an "old 30."

I scoff at the offense that the Reds will throw out there, sans Dunner.

reds44
08-11-2008, 09:00 PM
Scrappy has many meanings. You could be Ryan Freel scrappy and run all over the field, play a bunch of positions, and go 900% all of the time and end up on the disabled list very often, or you could go out everyday no matter what, play through injuries, and produce runs year in and year out. Adam Dunn was this type of scrappy.

Goodbye Adam. You'll be missed.

harangatang
08-11-2008, 09:31 PM
Man, how spoiled have Reds fans been looking at that career .900 OPS. I'll never forget the 535 foot bomb he hit in to the Ohio River off Jose Lima. Number 44 should be the number of underrated sluggers in Reds history (Davis and Dunn).

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 09:32 PM
Man, how spoiled have Reds fans been looking at that career .900 OPS. I'll never forget the 535 foot bomb he hit in to the Ohio River off Jose Lima. Number 44 should be the number of underrated sluggers in Reds history (Davis and Dunn).

I was there for that 535 foot homerun. Yesterday was actually the four year anniversary for that homerun.

RedFanAlways1966
08-11-2008, 09:39 PM
Good luck to Adam Dunn. A run producer, a guy who played all the time and someone who seemed to be a good person.

Today is just another reminder that I am a fan of a small market team. This is not a move to help the team get better. Strictly a move to spend less money on less productive players. Such is MLB life in the 21st century. I love the Cincinnati REDS, but I hate the setup of MLB.

jojo
08-11-2008, 10:01 PM
First ballot Reds HOFer and very little that the Reds can criticize based upon what he gave them for what they gave him.

I'll enjoy watching you DH in Seattle next season Adam.... fresh salmon is like candy. Stay young.

TheBurn
08-11-2008, 10:05 PM
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9591/clappingyv0.gif
I like Big Dunner. At least I'll get to see him in AZ...

jojo
08-11-2008, 10:06 PM
Adam Dunn is the most under-appreciated Red ever. It honestly sickens me that the Reds were not able to cull more advertisting revenue from forwarding the concept that he was a player people should come out to watch. Especially for his age, his production as a Red has been historic, a concept lost on the awful announcers the Reds continue to employ, the inept radio stations the Reds continue to support, and an intense throng of nonsensical fans who have little idea how baseball actually works.

Adam Dunn has been a tough guy to take out. He's worked through many injuries over the course of his career and he's done so without excuse. He's smart. He's personable and funny. Those attributes would have earned him a better nickname than "Big Donkey" in the long-ago-time and his grit, determination, and consistency should have earned him better treatment from both the media and fans than we have seen. Had the Reds put a better team around him, who knows what folks might be calling him today. "Mr. October" didn't get there by himself. Not "clutch"? Nah. If that's the excuse, then we're not paying attention.

Instead, we saw a truly marketable player lambasted time after time for having the audacity to not be able to pitch a lick and not be able to coach a lick and not be able to make numerous front offices draft a lick or trade a lick or find anything resembling a cohesive team. In the end, Dunn's time ran out. He was here for every single moment of every single "win-now" scenario, but was always handcuffed by an owner and/or GM who really didn't know how.

Farewell, Adam Dunn. You're not an "enigma". You're just an incredibly productive player folks didn't appreciate because you're not someone who folks wanted you to be. You weren't appreciated not because you weren't productive. You weren't appreciated because you weren't nostalgic. You didn't allow folks to harken back to times where they recognized your game. And that's far more a commentary on Cincinnati Reds fans than it is you.

You have talent, you have drive, you have heart, you have the grit, and you have the soul. Now it's time for you to put it together for a team, and hopefully, a fan base that understands exactly how valuable you are.

I enjoyed this post tremendously.

Dunn's legacy would likely be completely different had the Reds given him some post season opportunities.

He's a contact deficient, poor fielding, true three outcome guy but there is no doubt that his SLG/OBP skills have been special.

VR
08-11-2008, 10:09 PM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/gameday_recap.jsp?ymd=20060630&content_id=1531422&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Edskin
08-11-2008, 10:16 PM
Adam Dunn is the most under-appreciated Red ever. It honestly sickens me that the Reds were not able to cull more advertisting revenue from forwarding the concept that he was a player people should come out to watch. Especially for his age, his production as a Red has been historic, a concept lost on the awful announcers the Reds continue to employ, the inept radio stations the Reds continue to support, and an intense throng of nonsensical fans who have little idea how baseball actually works.


See, I think that pushes the argument on what Dunn "was" to the other end of the spectrum. It's funny, I totally agree that probably half of Reds fans totally under-appreciated Dunn. But I think the other half may have over-appreciated him. There seems to be no middle ground with Dunn: Either you think he's vastly overrated or vastly underrated.

I choose to view him as what I think he is: A very, very good player, but not a complete star.

I think the most compelling argument AGAINST Dunn is that so many BASEBALL people aren't too fond of him. I think what Riccardi (who is from the OPS/stats/Beane/Epstein shcool) said probably echoes how a lot of GM's feel-- and not just old, crusty, radar-gun types.

Steel-- by reading your paragraph it sounds as if you are describing one of the very best players in baseball-- a Hall of Famer perhaps. I'm not even arguing at that point-- I'm just saying, it seems weird that so many people "in the biz" seem to disagree. Interesting. In the end, Dunn didn't command a whole lot of attention.

Edskin
08-11-2008, 10:21 PM
Sorry, my reply to Steel strayed a bit...I would like to keep with the thread theme and say that Adam Dunn was one of the few things worth watching for the Reds during this decade. I'm wasn't quite as in love with him as many on RZ were :), and I've always felt he could better.....having said that, I certainly appreciate what he accomplished here-- our failings as a team had nothing to do with Dunn...he provided some of the only good memories from the 2000's.

vaticanplum
08-11-2008, 10:58 PM
Adam Dunn is the most under-appreciated Red ever. It honestly sickens me that the Reds were not able to cull more advertisting revenue from forwarding the concept that he was a player people should come out to watch. Especially for his age, his production as a Red has been historic, a concept lost on the awful announcers the Reds continue to employ, the inept radio stations the Reds continue to support, and an intense throng of nonsensical fans who have little idea how baseball actually works.

Adam Dunn has been a tough guy to take out. He's worked through many injuries over the course of his career and he's done so without excuse. He's smart. He's personable and funny. Those attributes would have earned him a better nickname than "Big Donkey" in the long-ago-time and his grit, determination, and consistency should have earned him better treatment from both the media and fans than we have seen. Had the Reds put a better team around him, who knows what folks might be calling him today. "Mr. October" didn't get there by himself. Not "clutch"? Nah. If that's the excuse, then we're not paying attention.

Instead, we saw a truly marketable player lambasted time after time for having the audacity to not be able to pitch a lick and not be able to coach a lick and not be able to make numerous front offices draft a lick or trade a lick or find anything resembling a cohesive team. In the end, Dunn's time ran out. He was here for every single moment of every single "win-now" scenario, but was always handcuffed by an owner and/or GM who really didn't know how.

Farewell, Adam Dunn. You're not an "enigma". You're just an incredibly productive player folks didn't appreciate because you're not someone who folks wanted you to be. You weren't appreciated not because you weren't productive. You weren't appreciated because you weren't nostalgic. You didn't allow folks to harken back to times where they recognized your game. And that's far more a commentary on Cincinnati Reds fans than it is you.

You have talent, you have drive, you have heart, you have the grit, and you have the soul. Now it's time for you to put it together for a team, and hopefully, a fan base that understands exactly how valuable you are.

This is a near-perfect tribute. Fair, accurate, and heartbreakingly true.

IslandRed
08-11-2008, 11:46 PM
I'm sure going to miss watching him hit. Hope he gets that playoff appearance now.

Sea Ray
08-12-2008, 12:19 AM
Adam Dunn has been a tough guy to take out. He's worked through many injuries over the course of his career and he's done so without excuse. He's smart. He's personable and funny. Those attributes would have earned him a better nickname than "Big Donkey" in the long-ago-time and his grit, determination, and consistency should have earned him better treatment from both the media and fans than we have seen. Had the Reds put a better team around him, who knows what folks might be calling him today. "Mr. October" didn't get there by himself. Not "clutch"? Nah. If that's the excuse, then we're not paying attention.




Dunn's skill set didn't work well on a bad team. His greatest skill is his batting eye and the Reds didn't have enough hitters in their lineup to take advantage of his numerous walks. Opposing teams gladly put him on and pitched to the #6 or 7 hitter behind him. The Reds rarely put him in the right place in the lineup as well.

The Dodgers have added Manny and now the D-backs have countered with Dunn. This will be interesting to see how this plays out.

RedsManRick
08-12-2008, 01:10 AM
Dunn's skill set didn't work well on a bad team. His greatest skill is his batting eye and the Reds didn't have enough hitters in their lineup to take advantage of his numerous walks.

What does that mean? ARod's skill set wouldn't have made the Reds a winner. Nor would Albert Pujols.

Dunn's skill set works well on every team. The failure of other players to produce and compliment Dunn's game is the fault of those players, the fault of Reds management, not of Dunn.

He may not be a Hall of Famer, but he's a lot closer than most people seem to realize. He's got good odds on 600 career HR. 600; With a .380 OBP to go with it. His game might not be pretty. He might not be fast or dive head first in to 3B. He strikes out a ton, which certainly offends fans who place contact as the most important skill. But he's the greatest Red of the decade, by far. He's one of the 20 best Reds of all-time.

Steel, I think you pretty much said it all. I've been on record arguing for the Reds to offer Dunn arbitration and let him go. I'm not changing my position and think that this deal might work out well. But the failure of the Reds organization and of the fanbase of Cincinnati to recognize a Reds great is indeed a sad statement.

vaticanplum
08-12-2008, 02:10 AM
I'm going to allow myself a few moments to be personal and verbose, and then I'll be done with it.

I can't speak to Adam Dunn's career, to everything he did for this team, to the numbers he gave to the Reds. The numbers speak for themselves, and others shed better light on them, and I can't change the minds of those who twist or disregard them. I can't speak to his work ethic or his attitude, both of which have always seemed as exemplary to me as they seemed deplorable to others. I can't shift those people's point of view to my own. God knows I have tried.

I do want to try to put into words what he meant to me, which is something I don't think I've ever really done before. I have an extraordinary talent (and timing) for missing the great Reds. I was born in Cincinnati a few years after the Big Red Machine's peak, which for a baseball fan is really a terrible time and place to be born -- close enough to have memories of the team still spoken about as if they're present, far enough not to actually witness any of its players anywhere near their peak. The only one left was Pete Rose, who was banned from baseball right after my 11th birthday. Say what you will about his scrappiness and his love of the game; compare every Reds player to him for all eternity if you like. For those of us who witnessed only the bad side of his extremes, his love of baseball leaves a pretty bitter taste.

There was one bright spot for me as a young baseball fan, a guy who made me see a bit of what everybody made such a fuss about. He was #44, Eric Davis, and he could do everything you were supposed to do in baseball and then some. He won a World Series with the Reds and, being the one who hit the first home run in the first inning of the first game, he was more or less completely responsible for this win as far as I was concerned. Terrible trades and incompetent teams notwithstanding, I do love baseball, and there would be no baseball in my life without him.

Then he was traded. And I lost interest in the Reds (and, after the strike, in baseball completely), thus setting myself up to more or less miss the entire career of one of the only truly great Reds in my lifetime. I can't really express how embarrassing it is for someone who purports to be a huge Reds fan to be completely unable to discuss Barry Larkin. When his name comes up at parties, I have to excuse myself to the bar. I am essentially the drunkest Cincinnati party guest ever, all because of Barry Larkin.

I moved away from Cincinnati in 1996. By all rights, I should have never been a Reds fan again. I was still too mad at baseball in 1999 to enjoy that fleetingly joyful team, and after that, the Reds gave me little legitimate reason to love them. For the better part of ten years, I was in and out of New York, and I resisted Yankees fandom just long enough that I have never, as a fan, seen them win the World Series (there's my great timing again). And at the very moment I was starting to give into the Evil Empire, a single player came along to make me remember that first team I loved. He was -- what else? -- number 44.

Adam Dunn is the first Reds player whom I have loved as an adult. He is the first player I remember following with great interest who is younger than I am. And so it is ironic that he is one of the only players left in baseball who makes me feel like a kid. He's been criticized for not living up to his potential, for being apathetic, and the reason these arguments actually hit me personally is not because they are antithetical to the numbers and the consistent performances, but because they cut to the very heart of what he gave me as a baseball player. Potential? As someone who was half-heartedly following the Reds' young players from afar, I can tell you that the reason this kid caught my attention was that he far surpassed what he was supposed to do. He was supposed to be a lesser player than Austin Kearns. Apathy? I remember specifically being home for a summer wedding in 2003, falling asleep in front of my mom's television, and waking up to a blond giant running around left field as if he had just discovered an ant farm. I had not seen such joy in a Reds ballpark in a very long time. He woke me up.

He has been so good. He has been so, so good. Steel said it well, but it is worth reiterating: he played for a terrible team, in a city that berated him, and for a period of five, six years, he never let up. He was misused and miscoached, at times, and he never used that as an excuse; he tried at every turn, he took every criticism, and he put up better numbers than anybody else, year after year. Reporters screamed at him for not being clutch as he consistently owned the bottom of the ninth; he never called them on it. Fans tortured him with chants of being lazy as he regularly showed up two hours early for batting practice; he never got distracted by them. My good-looking cousin teased him for his bubble-butt at half the bars in Northern Kentucky; he responded by buying her countless beers without ever making a pass at her. Everything that I know about him indicates to me that he was tough as nails on the field, salt of the earth off of it, but he never bothered to tell anyone. I have to assume that he wanted his on-field performance to speak for itself. I wish this city could have let it do so.

I have good feelings about Adam Dunn in Arizona. The Diamondbacks are a good team, they appear laden with happy players, and I suspect that Dunn will come into his own there in a way in which the team that developed him never permitted him. There are a lot of us who make fun of the Diamondbacks for being a young team, myself included, but there are benefits to being a new team. They will likely not hold Adam Dunn to a long-gone standard that doesn't suit him. They will allow him to be what he is, what he represents in today's baseball. And when he is what he is, the sky is the limit. I think he will do well. I think he could win a World Series. And I think that is what he deserves, as much as anybody else currently playing baseball.

I have said for years that I cannot support a team that consistently berates and -- at its worst moment -- trades its best players. I'm on record for that here. I know myself better than that, unfortunately. I have a borderline abusive relationship with this team, but I won't desert it. I'm too old and already jaded; I'm stuck with this godforsaken team for life at this point. And I can give it time, I can wait to see how it rebuilds, I can recognize the better potential for Adam Dunn's career here in this trade and even -- if they do it right -- the better future for the Reds even as they trade their best player.

But there is a part of me that unquestionably dies with this trade. A part beyond numbers, beyond logic; the part that woke up sleepy-eyed to that blond Texan running half-blind around the outfield five years ago. With the possible exception of Josh Hamilton, no player in baseball has made me feel the full-out purity of baseball since Adam Dunn, and given my age and ever-increasing skepticism, I don't know that any player will again. ADAM DUNN, the message board controversy, managed to surpass all the arguments of numbers and motivation and still perform at elite levels of baseball -- and, no matter how you feel about him, it takes an extraordinary player to do that. Adam Dunn, the kid, still made me smile every time he bobbled a line drive or hit a home run in the first or fifth or eleventh inning. And to make a jaded fan of a perpetually losing team smile...in its own way, there is nothing more extraordinary than that.

I watched him grow up; he allowed me to feel like he was my own kid. In the greater scheme of things, that may prove to be a fleeting part of his career, and I hope that it does. In the greater scheme of things, I will never be young enough to look at a gifted clueless outfielder the same way again, and that's just the way it is, and I was lucky that my couple of brief shots at it were are great as they were.

RedlegJake
08-12-2008, 02:16 AM
I liked Dunn. Loved watching him when he was hot and could count on him to get on even when he wasn't. He's the fascinating type that always generates tremendous debates. I've probably learned more about statistics from Steel and others and from studying on my own in following the debates about Dunn than all other players & subjects on here combined. In the final analysis I think he'll be appreciated far more after the fact and someday, after I'm gone and you younger guys are grandfathers, you'll be telling your grandkids - "You know, I actually saw Adam Dunn hit a home run, he was something else"

OnBaseMachine
08-12-2008, 02:48 AM
And the other part consists of home runs and walks, the two special qualities that separate Dunn from his predecessors and contemporaries. Think five straight years of 40 homers is impressive? Dunn is 20 walks from hitting 100 for the fifth straight year, and only Bonds has done 40-100 five in a row. Never Babe Ruth. Never Ted Williams. No one but Bonds and, soon, Dunn.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AivPak9Y2M8zlLuzpI11S9sRvLYF?slug=jp-dunn081108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

jojo
08-12-2008, 08:03 AM
What does that mean? ARod's skill set wouldn't have made the Reds a winner. Nor would Albert Pujols.

Dunn's skill set works well on every team. The failure of other players to produce and compliment Dunn's game is the fault of those players, the fault of Reds management, not of Dunn.

I think what it means is that the Reds largely failed to leverage Dunn's skill set during his time as a Red.

Dunn's legacy as a Red will really be diminished by two things that were out of his control-the Reds ineptness which deprived him of playoff opportunities (imagine the Cleveland grand slam coming in a key playoff game) and stereotypes that pervade major league baseball (big power hitters need to bat 4th and guys with contact issues can't bat 2nd etc).

wheels
08-12-2008, 08:54 AM
I'm going to allow myself a few moments to be personal and verbose, and then I'll be done with it.

I can't speak to Adam Dunn's career, to everything he did for this team, to the numbers he gave to the Reds. The numbers speak for themselves, and others shed better light on them, and I can't change the minds of those who twist or disregard them. I can't speak to his work ethic or his attitude, both of which have always seemed as exemplary to me as they seemed deplorable to others. I can't shift those people's point of view to my own. God knows I have tried.

I do want to try to put into words what he meant to me, which is something I don't think I've ever really done before. I have an extraordinary talent (and timing) for missing the great Reds. I was born in Cincinnati a few years after the Big Red Machine's peak, which for a baseball fan is really a terrible time and place to be born -- close enough to have memories of the team still spoken about as if they're present, far enough not to actually witness any of its players anywhere near their peak. The only one left was Pete Rose, who was banned from baseball right after my 11th birthday. Say what you will about his scrappiness and his love of the game; compare every Reds player to him for all eternity if you like. For those of us who witnessed only the bad side of his extremes, his love of baseball leaves a pretty bitter taste.

There was one bright spot for me as a young baseball fan, a guy who made me see a bit of what everybody made such a fuss about. He was #44, Eric Davis, and he could do everything you were supposed to do in baseball and then some. He won a World Series with the Reds and, being the one who hit the first home run in the first inning of the first game, he was more or less completely responsible for this win as far as I was concerned. Terrible trades and incompetent teams notwithstanding, I do love baseball, and there would be no baseball in my life without him.

Then he was traded. And I lost interest in the Reds (and, after the strike, in baseball completely), thus setting myself up to more or less miss the entire career of one of the only truly great Reds in my lifetime. I can't really express how embarrassing it is for someone who purports to be a huge Reds fan to be completely unable to discuss Barry Larkin. When his name comes up at parties, I have to excuse myself to the bar. I am essentially the drunkest Cincinnati party guest ever, all because of Barry Larkin.

I moved away from Cincinnati in 1996. By all rights, I should have never been a Reds fan again. I was still too mad at baseball in 1999 to enjoy that fleetingly joyful team, and after that, the Reds gave me little legitimate reason to love them. For the better part of ten years, I was in and out of New York, and I resisted Yankees fandom just long enough that I have never, as a fan, seen them win the World Series (there's my great timing again). And at the very moment I was starting to give into the Evil Empire, a single player came along to make me remember that first team I loved. He was -- what else? -- number 44.

Adam Dunn is the first Reds player whom I have loved as an adult. He is the first player I remember following with great interest who is younger than I am. And so it is ironic that he is one of the only players left in baseball who makes me feel like a kid. He's been criticized for not living up to his potential, for being apathetic, and the reason these arguments actually hit me personally is not because they are antithetical to the numbers and the consistent performances, but because they cut to the very heart of what he gave me as a baseball player. Potential? As someone who was half-heartedly following the Reds' young players from afar, I can tell you that the reason this kid caught my attention was that he far surpassed what he was supposed to do. He was supposed to be a lesser player than Austin Kearns. Apathy? I remember specifically being home for a summer wedding in 2003, falling asleep in front of my mom's television, and waking up to a blond giant running around left field as if he had just discovered an ant farm. I had not seen such joy in a Reds ballpark in a very long time. He woke me up.

He has been so good. He has been so, so good. Steel said it well, but it is worth reiterating: he played for a terrible team, in a city that berated him, and for a period of five, six years, he never let up. He was misused and miscoached, at times, and he never used that as an excuse; he tried at every turn, he took every criticism, and he put up better numbers than anybody else, year after year. Reporters screamed at him for not being clutch as he consistently owned the bottom of the ninth; he never called them on it. Fans tortured him with chants of being lazy as he regularly showed up two hours early for batting practice; he never got distracted by them. My good-looking cousin teased him for his bubble-butt at half the bars in Northern Kentucky; he responded by buying her countless beers without ever making a pass at her. Everything that I know about him indicates to me that he was tough as nails on the field, salt of the earth off of it, but he never bothered to tell anyone. I have to assume that he wanted his on-field performance to speak for itself. I wish this city could have let it do so.

I have good feelings about Adam Dunn in Arizona. The Diamondbacks are a good team, they appear laden with happy players, and I suspect that Dunn will come into his own there in a way in which the team that developed him never permitted him. There are a lot of us who make fun of the Diamondbacks for being a young team, myself included, but there are benefits to being a new team. They will likely not hold Adam Dunn to a long-gone standard that doesn't suit him. They will allow him to be what he is, what he represents in today's baseball. And when he is what he is, the sky is the limit. I think he will do well. I think he could win a World Series. And I think that is what he deserves, as much as anybody else currently playing baseball.

I have said for years that I cannot support a team that consistently berates and -- at its worst moment -- trades its best players. I'm on record for that here. I know myself better than that, unfortunately. I have a borderline abusive relationship with this team, but I won't desert it. I'm too old and already jaded; I'm stuck with this godforsaken team for life at this point. And I can give it time, I can wait to see how it rebuilds, I can recognize the better potential for Adam Dunn's career here in this trade and even -- if they do it right -- the better future for the Reds even as they trade their best player.

But there is a part of me that unquestionably dies with this trade. A part beyond numbers, beyond logic; the part that woke up sleepy-eyed to that blond Texan running half-blind around the outfield five years ago. With the possible exception of Josh Hamilton, no player in baseball has made me feel the full-out purity of baseball since Adam Dunn, and given my age and ever-increasing skepticism, I don't know that any player will again. ADAM DUNN, the message board controversy, managed to surpass all the arguments of numbers and motivation and still perform at elite levels of baseball -- and, no matter how you feel about him, it takes an extraordinary player to do that. Adam Dunn, the kid, still made me smile every time he bobbled a line drive or hit a home run in the first or fifth or eleventh inning. And to make a jaded fan of a perpetually losing team smile...in its own way, there is nothing more extraordinary than that.

I watched him grow up; he allowed me to feel like he was my own kid. In the greater scheme of things, that may prove to be a fleeting part of his career, and I hope that it does. In the greater scheme of things, I will never be young enough to look at a gifted clueless outfielder the same way again, and that's just the way it is, and I was lucky that my couple of brief shots at it were are great as they were.

That's what I was trying to say yesterday, but was in full nail spitting mode.

This post helps me sort out those feelings.

Oh, and don't worry. Another player will give you that feeling again. That's the thing about Baseball. They don't wear helmets that cover the face, and they aren't covered in pads. As a Baseball fan, it's natural to latch onto certain players because there's nothing there to really mask the human element to them. They aren't just robots executing prescribed tasks, so to speak.

Does that make any sense?

RedLegSuperStar
08-12-2008, 09:16 AM
Who can hit a ball into the Ohio River? Adam Dunn.. Thank You!

His power was out of this world. Imagine if he were in a homerun hitting contest and the distances you would see the ball travel. He was an on base slash slugging god. You always wanted Dunn up when the Reds were in a close game and had the chance to win the game with one swing of the bat. Not to take anything from the actual Dunn appriciation but to him and Junior.. may October be good to you and hope to see the D'Backs and White Sox battling for World Series gold. But I'm rooting for the White Sox!

In closing it will be very hard to fill those type of shoes of number 44

TRF
08-12-2008, 09:21 AM
1st week of June, 2002 I think. Reds at Rangers. 2 of my friends joined me on the 400 mile trip to Arlington to see the Reds play. I was eager to see Jr. in a Reds uni for the first time live. He was hurt though and only took BP. He'd go on the DL a week or so later. The Reds dropped game 1.

Game 2 was the Adam Dunn Show. 2 HR's and a double. There was this hilarious Indians fan raining fire down on Russel Branyan (who also had a very good day) Reds won, I got a Texas Rangers beach towel. I also got a ball smacked by Jr. during BP. Later signed by Dunn. I told him he was my son's favorite player (my boy was 10 at the time) Adam's response was simply uh oh. I couldn't believe how he towered over me. The only time I have ever asked for an autograph, and the only time I had ever been that close to a major league baseball player since I was 14. (I marched in the Baseball Bunch Parade at Johnny Bench's last game. Got to shake his hand.)

I'm probably going to be pissed about this for the rest of the year.

Sea Ray
08-12-2008, 09:26 AM
What does that mean? ARod's skill set wouldn't have made the Reds a winner. Nor would Albert Pujols.



That's just a guess on your part. Let's get more specific. I think Albert Pujols' skillset could have very well led to a division title in 2006. A hot hitter with those skills in Sept could have carried our Reds into the post season and that might have changed the course of events for this franchise. We'll never know for sure but it's a possibility. That Reds team wasn't eliminated until after game 161.

wolfboy
08-12-2008, 09:39 AM
That's just a guess on your part. Let's get more specific. I think Albert Pujols' skillset could have very well led to a division title in 2006. A hot hitter with those skills in Sept could have carried our Reds into the post season and that might have changed the course of events for this franchise. We'll never know for sure but it's a possibility. That Reds team wasn't eliminated until after game 161.

Get over it.

Sea Ray
08-12-2008, 09:56 AM
Get over it.

Oh I'm well over it. In fact I'm so over it that I had to look it up to confirm what year it was. I was merely using it as an example that Dunn did have a chance to lead this team to the promise land. Don't kid yourself that he didn't.

wolfboy
08-12-2008, 09:59 AM
Oh I'm well over it. In fact I'm so over it that I had to look it up to confirm what year it was. I was merely using it as an example that Dunn did have a chance to lead this team to the promise land. Don't kid yourself that he didn't.

Glad to see your contribution to the "Adam Dunn appreciation thread" was well researched.

nate
08-12-2008, 10:04 AM
Oh I'm well over it. In fact I'm so over it that I had to look it up to confirm what year it was. I was merely using it as an example that Dunn did have a chance to lead this team to the promise land. Don't kid yourself that he didn't.

Some of us are trying to reminisce about our favorite Adam Dunn moments.

Maybe you could start a new thread do accommodate the topic you want to talk about because it's different from the one being discussed here.

nate
08-12-2008, 10:14 AM
Finally found it...at Redszone of all places...duh!

Lest we forget, the famous banana phone call (http://www.getsportsinfo.com/lance/dunncall.mp3).

Sea Ray
08-12-2008, 10:36 AM
Some of us are trying to reminisce about our favorite Adam Dunn moments.

Maybe you could start a new thread do accommodate the topic you want to talk about because it's different from the one being discussed here.

Reminisce all you want but if something is posted that doesn't reflect reality I'll comment. Let's not embellish Dunn to being something that he's not.

Bear in mind the first "challenge" was directed at me. I contributed a very positive review of Dunn's contributions and yet I was called to task.

nate
08-12-2008, 11:09 AM
Reminisce all you want but if something is posted that doesn't reflect reality I'll comment.

But your comment wasn't "reality", it was opinion. And this thread isn't the place to rehash all of Dunn's shortcomings, real or imaginary.


Let's not embellish Dunn to being something that he's not.

We're not, we're talking about appreciating what he did. We know he was imperfect.


Bear in mind the first "challenge" was directed at me. I contributed a very positive review of Dunn's contributions and yet I was called to task.

As I suggested, if you want to debate the merits of that "challenge," please take it to another thread and we'll talk about it there.

I think to do otherwise would be rude.

Chip R
08-12-2008, 11:16 AM
Dunn joines a long line of Reds who were underappreciated when they left. Most of those players eventually came back and were beloved. Both Ted Kluszewski and Joe Nuxhall were pretty much booed out of town after their performance had fallen off. IIRC, Klu had some back problems that he kept to himself and his performance suffered greatly. He eventually was brought back as the hitting coach of the legendary Big Red Machine. Joe just basically stunk and was traded to Kansas City. After a his purgatory in K.C. and the minor leagues, Joe was re-acquired and performed fairly well until he retired and became not only a broadcaster but a beloved figure till he passed away lat last year.

Then we come to Frank Robinson. 1956 Rookie of the Year, 1961 NL MVP on a team that went to the World Series, 8 time NL All Star. He was traded to Baltimore after the 1965 season because he was an "old 30". Robinson won the Triple Crown the following year and was voted into the HOF. Robinson's departure was somewhat similar to Dunn's. While both players had a lot of support, a lot of fans were glad when Robinson was traded. You probably won't find many people admitting to that these days since Robinson was so successful in his post-Reds career. You may ask yourself why a player of Robinson's calibar was traded in the prime of his career. He certainly didn't have a bad season hitting just under .300 with an OPS of .926 in an era where it wasn't easy to score runs. It was a different era where the color of a man's skin played a part in how he was judged both as a person and as a player. Robby was pretty bitter for a number of years towards the Reds but present day fans have accepted him as the elite player that he was and old wounds have been healed to the point that there is a statue of Robinson - along with Klu and Nuxy - outside GAB.

Eric Davis was another player that Reds fans had mixed feelings about. While I don't think that fans were happy that he was traded, it was seen as more of something that was going to happen sooner or later. Someone with his skills in the free agent era was unlikely to stick around small market Cincinnati. There were a set of fans who were not happy with Davis because of his fragility. But even Pete Rose himself said he got all those injuries by going all out. Davis eventually came back with the Reds for a season and was welcomed back as a prodigal son and is now a beloved figure.

Adam Dunn's departure has produced mixed feelings among Reds fans. Some are glad to see him go even though they bear him no ill will and some are irate. There are always going to be some haters for about any player. I suspect that Dunn will one day be a part of the Reds family and a member of the Reds HOF. People will remember his towering HRs and gloss over his defensive shortcomings.

MWM
08-12-2008, 11:20 AM
vp, you really should be a professional writer, if you're not already.

Sea Ray
08-12-2008, 11:28 AM
As I suggested, if you want to debate the merits of that "challenge," please take it to another thread and we'll talk about it there.



No, that would be impractical. If you want to keep this thread as an appreciation thread don't initiate challenges. What's really inappropriate is debating what to post and not post on this thread and I'm done with that. My future responses here will be strictly limited to Adam Dunn.

RichRed
08-12-2008, 11:46 AM
vp, you really should be a professional writer, if you're not already.

Amen to that. That was a fantastic post.

OnBaseMachine
08-12-2008, 05:50 PM
Dunn cared and Dunn worked

By Hal McCoy | Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 04:57 PM
Latest comment

It was Sunday, long after the Cincinnati Reds lost their sixth straight game, long after they lost for the 14th time in 16 games.

Most of the players were dressed and gone, fleeing the scene of the carnage.

There were, though, five players gathered in a corner discussing the mess the team made this year, the embarrassment of losing, what it would take to improve the stifling situation.

The players were: Paul Bako, Jerry Hairston, Josh Fogg, Jolbert Cabrera and …

And …Adam Dunn.

Yes, Adam Dunn. So many fans misread Dunn. They thought him lazy. Have you ever tried moving 6-foot-7 and 275 pounds of muscle and bone? Ain’t easy, pal.

We know he was a defensive liability. We know he struck out too much. But to label him as a guy who didn’t care was unfair just because of his easy-going demeanor.

Nobody was more embarrassed than Dunn when he botched or bungled a play. Nobody was more embarrassed than Dunn when he struck out with two on and two out in a one-run game.

He said it, admitted it. He told the media he was awful at times. In 36 years of covering the Red, I never met a more honest or self-deprecating guy. He never made excuses. He took the blame, sometimes blame he didn’t deserve.

So it wasn’t surprising that Dunn was one of the players holding a post-game koffee klatch to discuss the many woes of the team.

And the next day Dunn was gone. Traded to become the biggest snake in Arizona.

My take? Big mistake. He won’t be replaced. Ever. To me, his home runs, his RBIs, his on-base percentage, his walks and his fearsome presence overrode his defensive deficiences and his strikeouts.

And I’m weary of hearing people say, “They never won with him and Griffey in the eight years they were here.” No, they didn’t. And they didn’t win with anybody else, either. Blaming Dunn and Griffey is absurd. Blame management for not surrounding two superb players with quality pitching and quality defense.

Now they’re gone, the team moves on. Question? Does it move up or does it move down? It appears it will be down before it’s up and it is going to take years to start the upward trend.

Said manager Dusty Baker, who had two superstars when he took the Reds job and now has none (maybe a couple in the making), tries to put the positive spin on it by saying, “This is our new beginning and there is always a period of adjustment. Trades like that change the dynamics of the team and it takes a while.”

A long, long, long, long while at the pace the Reds move.

Jay Bruce knows that more than anybody. Dunn and Griffey were his two best friends on the team.

When he arrived in the visiting clubhouse in Pittsburgh’s PNC Park Tuesday and walked to his locker, he was unaware that he was using the locker Dunn used during his Pittsburgh visits.

“Really? All right. Didn’t know that,” said Bruce. “Pure coincidence.” But there was a stack of color actions photos of Dunn on Bruce’s shelf and that was no coincidence.

“He gave ‘em to me and I just decided to bring ‘em,” said Bruce. “I’m absolutely going to miss Dunn, even more so than Griffey. We had a relationship before I got to the big leagues — working out together in Texas during the offseason.”

Working out? With Dunn? Fans thought Dunn, the big oaf, never worked out, never workede hard. “He worked his tail off,” said Bruce.

“We’re still going to be friends, but this place is a lot different now,” Bruce added. He could have added, “A lot, lot, lot, lot, lot different.”

“We’re moving forward and we have to accept it for what it is and the way it is,” Bruce said. “You can’t give up just because people are gone. You have to move forward. Nothing stops for anyone in this game. The show must go on.”

Did he mean sideshow?

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

RichRed
08-12-2008, 05:56 PM
Wow, that article by McCoy almost reads like a direct rebuttal to PD's article from yesterday. Good for him.

OnBaseMachine
08-12-2008, 06:00 PM
Wow, that article by McCoy almost reads like a direct rebuttal to PD's article from yesterday. Good for him.

I get the feeling judging from Hal's blogs lately that he doesn't like Paul Daugherty at all.

KronoRed
08-12-2008, 06:03 PM
I get the feeling judging from Hal's blogs lately that he doesn't like Paul Daugherty at all.

No sane baseball fan would.

westofyou
08-12-2008, 06:04 PM
59 years ago


Hank Sauer came to camp in Tampa in 1949 fresh off setting the Reds single season record for home runs, the 31-year-old WW 2 vet had worked his way through the Reds system since the early 1940’s and had starred at Rochester after the war, yet still he could get no interest from Warren Giles until 1948 when deadball era manager Bill McKetchnie finally left. It was then that he finally won the left field job and ended up the season with 35 home runs, a Reds team record.

Sauer was a dead pull hitter playing in a park that boasted that it had the most expansive outfield in the major leagues, however the LF line was only 328 feet away and the wall was 18 feet high.

However, operating under the adage that a manager knows best in the spring of 1949 Reds manager Bucky Walters entered camp with a pet project, he and his staff were going to get Hank Sauer to use the whole field, not only would he get 30 home runs buy he would rack up the doubles as well. Sauer was no spring chicken, and the 31 year old took offense to the request and promptly replied,

“You wanted to provide power and I hit 35 homers, what in the hell is wrong with that?”

Despite his pleas they still attempted the change, focusing much of the spring on taking the ball to right field. Sauer eventually worked so much that his hands swelled up from the change in approach, limiting all his baseball activities, it was then that the project was stopped and Sauer was allowed to return to his prior hitting approach. Because of the lack of regular work Sauer had a hard time finding his stroke in the early part of 1949 and by June he had only batted 152 times and he had only .673 OPS.

Once again the Reds brain trust made a move that they would rather forget than remember when they traded Sauer and Frank Baumholtz to the Cubs for Peanuts Lawrey and Harry Walker, a lopsided deal if there ever was one, this deal was later termed by Reds GM Warren Giles as

“The worst deal I ever made.”

When asked by the Sauer why he was traded Bucky Walters replied,

” Because I couldn’t make an all around hitter out of you.”

Sauer went on to hit 242 home runs for assorted teams around baseball and took home the MVP award in 1952. He never was much of a doubles hitter only topping 25 twice in his career. However his dead pull hitting made him a popular slugger in a hitter’s era and the Reds got nothing out of it other than the heartbreak of watching him do it in another teams uniform.

Bucky Walters was let go by the Reds after the 153rd game of the season. He never managed in the major leagues again.

I wonder why.

MWM
08-12-2008, 06:27 PM
That was a great article by Hal. I've often thought the same thing re: Dunn. He durely was misunderstood. All the folks on here who just accepted the "lazy, lacksadaisical" image as gospel were way off.

gonelong
08-12-2008, 08:05 PM
I guess better late than never.

GL

vaticanplum
08-12-2008, 10:15 PM
I love how Hal McCoy backs up his assertions with facts and anecdotes. That's so novel. Journalism should check into this.

Degenerate39
08-12-2008, 10:17 PM
Dunn just doubled to right field for his first hit as a D-Back.

Big Klu
08-13-2008, 01:56 AM
I know Hal catches some grief on here now and then, and he may not quite be what he once was (I'm sure his physical ailments contribute to that), but it's columns like this one that show everybody why he's a Hall-Of-Famer.

And I agree that it reads like a direct rebuttal to Daugherty's drivel.

OldRightHander
08-13-2008, 10:17 AM
I guess the thing I appreciated (and still do) most about Dunn as a player is the thing that gets him maligned by others. He has an even keeled approach to the game. He doesn't get too high on himself when he's going well and he doesn't get too down when he's struggling. I like athletes who have that approach. You don't have to wear your heart on your sleeve to impress me. Just show me the results.

deltachi8
08-13-2008, 08:53 PM
I emailed Hal to say thanks for writing that piece on Adam. I don't think I will bother going to see the Reds in a couple weeks while they are here in Texas, but I may go see the Snakes this weekend.

OnBaseMachine
08-14-2008, 10:59 AM
The Big Donkey
Posted by johnerardi at 8/14/2008 10:41 AM EDT on Cincinnati.com

READERS: I'm back. Figured I'd share w/ you non-Kentuckians this KY-edition column that was published this morning on the south shore. (Normally, my KY columns appear in the Opinion/Columns dropdown box of cincinnati.com, but this one didn't, so I'll post it here, as it pertains to Adam Dunn.) Perhaps it will provoke a comment or two from detractors of the Big Donkey. -- JE

By John Erardi

Up in the Bit column

Adam Dunn

"Big Donkey"

Left fielder, 2001-2008

“Ranks among the Reds all-time greatest power hitters;

Stands 4th in home runs with 270; 2nd in slugging pct.;

hit 1 HR every 13.8 at-bats, tops in club history.

Hit 40 or more HR 4 consecutive seasons; 2nd player in club

history to produce 100 RBI, 100 walks and score 100

runs in same season (3 times). After his trade to Arizona in August, 2008, he completed another 40 HR, 100 walk season, making him only the second player in baseball history to accomplish that in five consecutive years.”

Something like the above is how I believe Adam Dunn’s plaque for the Reds Hall of Fame will read someday. I am writing about him today, because I first met him in 2001 when he was a Louisville Bat in Triple-A., the Reds top farm club. For me, that makes him a Kentucky story. Dunn enjoyed his time in Louisville .

Seven years ago, I was in Fort Mill , N.C. , to do a story on the attempted miracle comeback of Jose Rijo, after six arm surgeries. Dunn had helped with that comeback, not with a three-run homer to keep Rijo in the game, but with an all-the-way-in-the-air throw to Bats catcher Corky Miller to get a big out that allowed Rijo to survive a tough, third inning. Rijo finished that game strong, and soon after brought down the house (at then-Cinergy Field) on one of the most emotional nights I ever experienced in the ballpark that was home to the Big Red Machine.

I believe that Dunn is going to go down as one of the best players in franchise history. I think he’s Ted Kluszewski with a lot more strikeouts and no Frank Robinson to help him get into a pennant race (1956). I think he’s Wally Post with not as many hits but a lot more walks and no “Robby” to take him to the World Series (1961). Make of that what you will, and don’t take it as a slam on Ken Griffey Jr. – he wasn’t the player he was here in Seattle . And of course, both the ’56 and ’61 teams -- and some of the ones in between and a little after -- had the type of pitching the Reds haven’t had since 1999, two years before Dunn arrived.

It’s an unpopular opinion in Greater Cincinnati to say you are an Adam Dunn fan.

The subject came up at Dickmann’s Café in Fort Wright Wednesday night where I made an appearance with the Two Angry Guys. I said then what I feel today: Dunn was under-rated. His offense will be hard to replace.

Dunn's negatives are easy to isolate; on a good team, they would fade away.

Simply put, Dunn became the poster boy for a lousy team. Slice and dice the Big Donkey however you want: He couldn't hit for average, wasn’t a graceful fielder, wasn't the clubhouse leader. The misconceptions about him abound: He couldn't hit with runners in scoring position, he hit “meaningless home runs,” he drove in “meaningless runs.” He was a “lousy outfielder.”

There are numbers to disprove all of that. Let us, instead, take you to the meat of the matter.

Bullet: Dunn has a career .380 on-base percentage. That's good for 20th among active big-league players with 3,000 or more plate appearances.

Bullet: Dunn is one of only 14 players to drive in 90 or more runs in each of the last 4 seasons.

Bullet: Dunn is one of only 10 players to score 90 or more runs in each of the last 4 seasons. The only other players on the RBI/runs scored lists are Alex Rodriguez, Albert Pujols, David Ortiz. Miggy Cabrera and Bobby Abreu.

Bullet: In career walk-off home runs, Dunn is tied with Pujos, A-Rod and Chipper Jones with seven. Among active players, only Vladimir Guerrerro, David Ortiz and Jim Thome have more walk-off home runs than Dunn. Every one of the hitters ahead of Dunn has at least 700 more plate appearances – and in most cases, 1,000 more.

Bullet: Of Dunn's 270 career home runs, 54 (or 20.0%) have come in what is known as “high leverage” situations. That's a better rate than David Ortiz (18.1%), Manny Ramirez (19.5%), Lance Berkman (17.0%), and Griffey (17.8%)…and anybody else except Pujols (20.9%).

Bullet: About 43% of Dunn's HRs have either tied the game or given the Reds the lead. That's a better rate than A-Rod or Ramirez.

I apologize for all the numbers. But the numbers are who Dunn was here…and who he will be elsewhere. If you are not into numbers, you are probably not into Dunn.

The point: When it comes down to numbers, Dunn wasn’t the one to blame for the last eight years.

The blame belongs to the owners. They didn’t provide him with the supporting cast that would have driven his numbers even higher

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a0a366073-cc98-4c38-b49e-d1c985a2adb2&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

nate
08-14-2008, 12:08 PM
The Big Donkey
Posted by johnerardi at 8/14/2008 10:41 AM EDT on Cincinnati.com

Very nice! Thanks, OBM.

Degenerate39
08-14-2008, 12:09 PM
Adam Dunn

"Big Donkey"

Left fielder, 2001-2008

“Ranks among the Reds all-time greatest power hitters;

Stands 4th in home runs with 270; 2nd in slugging pct.;

hit 1 HR every 13.8 at-bats, tops in club history.

Hit 40 or more HR 4 consecutive seasons; 2nd player in club

history to produce 100 RBI, 100 walks and score 100

runs in same season (3 times). After his trade to Arizona in August, 2008, he completed another 40 HR, 100 walk season, making him only the second player in baseball history to accomplish that in five consecutive years.”

Something like the above is how I believe Adam Dunn’s plaque for the Reds Hall of Fame will read someday. I am writing about him today, because I first met him in 2001 when he was a Louisville Bat in Triple-A., the Reds top farm club. For me, that makes him a Kentucky story. Dunn enjoyed his time in Louisville .

Seven years ago, I was in Fort Mill , N.C. , to do a story on the attempted miracle comeback of Jose Rijo, after six arm surgeries. Dunn had helped with that comeback, not with a three-run homer to keep Rijo in the game, but with an all-the-way-in-the-air throw to Bats catcher Corky Miller to get a big out that allowed Rijo to survive a tough, third inning. Rijo finished that game strong, and soon after brought down the house (at then-Cinergy Field) on one of the most emotional nights I ever experienced in the ballpark that was home to the Big Red Machine.

I believe that Dunn is going to go down as one of the best players in franchise history. I think he’s Ted Kluszewski with a lot more strikeouts and no Frank Robinson to help him get into a pennant race (1956). I think he’s Wally Post with not as many hits but a lot more walks and no “Robby” to take him to the World Series (1961). Make of that what you will, and don’t take it as a slam on Ken Griffey Jr. – he wasn’t the player he was here in Seattle . And of course, both the ’56 and ’61 teams -- and some of the ones in between and a little after -- had the type of pitching the Reds haven’t had since 1999, two years before Dunn arrived.

It’s an unpopular opinion in Greater Cincinnati to say you are an Adam Dunn fan.

The subject came up at Dickmann’s Café in Fort Wright Wednesday night where I made an appearance with the Two Angry Guys. I said then what I feel today: Dunn was under-rated. His offense will be hard to replace.

Dunn's negatives are easy to isolate; on a good team, they would fade away.

Simply put, Dunn became the poster boy for a lousy team. Slice and dice the Big Donkey however you want: He couldn't hit for average, wasn’t a graceful fielder, wasn't the clubhouse leader. The misconceptions about him abound: He couldn't hit with runners in scoring position, he hit “meaningless home runs,” he drove in “meaningless runs.” He was a “lousy outfielder.”

There are numbers to disprove all of that. Let us, instead, take you to the meat of the matter.

Bullet: Dunn has a career .380 on-base percentage. That's good for 20th among active big-league players with 3,000 or more plate appearances.

Bullet: Dunn is one of only 14 players to drive in 90 or more runs in each of the last 4 seasons.

Bullet: Dunn is one of only 10 players to score 90 or more runs in each of the last 4 seasons. The only other players on the RBI/runs scored lists are Alex Rodriguez, Albert Pujols, David Ortiz. Miggy Cabrera and Bobby Abreu.

Bullet: In career walk-off home runs, Dunn is tied with Pujos, A-Rod and Chipper Jones with seven. Among active players, only Vladimir Guerrerro, David Ortiz and Jim Thome have more walk-off home runs than Dunn. Every one of the hitters ahead of Dunn has at least 700 more plate appearances – and in most cases, 1,000 more.

Bullet: Of Dunn's 270 career home runs, 54 (or 20.0%) have come in what is known as “high leverage” situations. That's a better rate than David Ortiz (18.1%), Manny Ramirez (19.5%), Lance Berkman (17.0%), and Griffey (17.8%)…and anybody else except Pujols (20.9%).

Bullet: About 43% of Dunn's HRs have either tied the game or given the Reds the lead. That's a better rate than A-Rod or Ramirez.

I apologize for all the numbers. But the numbers are who Dunn was here…and who he will be elsewhere. If you are not into numbers, you are probably not into Dunn.

The point: When it comes down to numbers, Dunn wasn’t the one to blame for the last eight years.

The blame belongs to the owners. They didn’t provide him with the supporting cast that would have driven his numbers even higher

Great article. I agree with all that was stated and that's why he's my favorite player since '01. It makes me sad that he'll be on another team for the rest of his career (probably). And it makes me mad that he was so under appreciated here.

nate
08-14-2008, 12:12 PM
Great article. I agree with all that was stated and that's why he's my favorite player since '01. It makes me sad that he'll be on another team for the rest of his career (probably). And it makes me mad that he was so under appreciated here.

Yeah, just read that one. It's good.

Maybe he'll find PEACE in Arizona.

RedsManRick
08-14-2008, 12:22 PM
Good to see Hal and Erardi standing up for Dunn and calling out the real causes of the Reds' failures. If only media members had been more adamant about doing so while he was here, instead of letting Brennaman, Fay, and company run his reputation in to the ground among casual fans.

RFS62
08-14-2008, 04:24 PM
vp, you really should be a professional writer, if you're not already.



I'll second that. That was one fantastic post.

Degenerate39
08-19-2008, 11:06 PM
Big Dunn just got his first career homer as a D-Back.

RedsManRick
08-20-2008, 01:24 AM
Big Dunn just got his first career homer as a D-Back.

Great line from the D'Backs announcer on the call. "My name is Adam Dunn and I hit home runs!"

deltachi8
08-20-2008, 01:54 AM
Big Dunn just got his first career homer as a D-Back.

He also walked twice and scored twice in another D-Backs win.

lollipopcurve
08-20-2008, 08:38 AM
we need a separate forum for threads about ex-Reds

RedsBaron
08-20-2008, 10:38 AM
He also walked twice and scored twice in another D-Backs win.

Clogging the bases again I see. ;)

puca
08-20-2008, 11:50 AM
Clogging the bases again I see. ;)

It's not clogging if the guys behind you knock you in.

Somewhere there is a lesson to be learned.

oregonred
08-20-2008, 05:36 PM
VP -- Great post. Loved watching Dunn as a Red. Every AB of his was must see TV.

reds44
08-20-2008, 10:49 PM
Dunn hit one of the lowest and fastest homers I've ever seen tonight. As the D'Backs announcer put it, you could hang two years worth of laundry on it.

RedsManRick
08-20-2008, 10:57 PM
I think trading him was probably the right move, but I think as time goes on, a lot of people are going to realize how much they miss having him on the Reds.

oregonred
08-21-2008, 01:15 AM
The nerve of the D-Backs to clog the bases with a couple of guys in the first inning for new cleanup man Adam Dunn's first inning HR.

Ron Madden
08-21-2008, 03:18 AM
Adam Dunn has been My favorite Red since 2001. I'll miss him.

The Reds will miss him too, but I don't expect them to realize just how much they will really miss him.

deltachi8
08-21-2008, 09:49 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-dunn082008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Dunn is Diamondbacks’ Donkey Kong
By Tim Brown, Yahoo! Sports

PHOENIX – The man they call Big Donkey said, sure, he still talks to Junior all the time.

At that moment, as though summoned, his cell phone shimmied like one of those old electric football players.

“This is him right here, I guarantee you,” he said. “He calls me every day. Hit a homer today.”

He held up the phone.

“See?”

Ken Griffey Jr., fellow Cincinnati Reds expat, indeed had homered for the Chicago White Sox on Wednesday afternoon.

Adam Dunn let out a big donkey laugh. Yeah, this pennant-race stuff is a kick.

“This is a side of baseball I’ve never seen,” he said. “I’ve never been here.”

Three hours later, Dunn lined a fastball over the right-field wall at Chase Field, a first-inning tracer off San Diego Padres ace Jake Peavy that scored three runs and made the Arizona Diamondbacks game again.

And so the National League West, the plainest of divisions, is not just a two-team race, but potentially a two-man race.

Eleven days after the Dodgers relieved the Boston Red Sox of Manny Ramirez (and eight days after Ramirez put a three-game whipping on them), the Diamondbacks took the plunge with Dunn.

Like Ramirez, Dunn will be a free agent after the season.

Like Ramirez, he bats fourth in a lineup that hadn’t done much cleaning up without him.

Like Ramirez, he’s not much in the field, but, oh, what he can do with a bat.

And like the Dodgers, the Diamondbacks are an entirely different offensive team today, more like the 161-run mirage we saw in April, and now their ballpark is aflutter with homemade signs gushing, “I like mine well Dunn,” and, “Hey, Gracie, call it an Adam bomb!”

L.A.’s Manny Mania is Phoenix’s Donkey Throng.

“I love it out here,” Dunn said. “I know it’s only August whatever, but it seems like every day does matter now. And oh yeah, I’m nervous. I haven’t been nervous in a long time. I keep waiting for the nerves to go away, but they haven’t.”

By nature of his Reds upbringing, Dunn nearly made it all the way to free agency without playing for a winner. He nearly made it to freedom without ever tasting a big at-bat, without ever hitting a big home run, without ever experiencing September as anything other than one-month-to-go.

And now he has hit home runs in each of his first two home games, both Diamondbacks wins. In his first eight games of consequence, he has reached base more than half the time, forced pitches to teammates who were beginning to look like the moments were getting too big and stood in the middle of a lineup averaging nearly seven runs a game since he first pulled on the clubhouse door.

Those 32 home runs before he got here? Those 270 career home runs? Nice. Fine. Impressive.

The last two?

“That’s why we’ve got Dunn right there, I guess,” Diamondbacks third baseman Mark Reynolds said. “It’s awesome. He creates so much. It’s pretty cool to have something like that.”

They beat the Padres on Wednesday night, 8-6. They won though their 14-game winner, Dan Haren, allowed four first-inning runs. But with one out, a couple of guys got on, Dunn came up and worked Peavy for seven pitches, the last of which changed everything.

“I was hoping at 3-2 Jake wouldn’t throw me the slider right there,” Dunn said, “and he didn’t.”

Fastball, down.

“He hits homers,” Peavy said. “He changes games.”

Meanwhile in L.A., Ramirez had a lousy single in four at-bats, the Dodgers lost, and the Diamondbacks are two games up.

“When I talked to Adam, I told him, ‘Don’t try to be something you’re not,’ ” Diamondbacks manager Bob Melvin said. “Just be Adam Dunn. And he’s been exactly that.”

Dunn saw 22 pitches in four plate appearances. He walked twice, once after an 0-2 count. He’s going to strike out – “obviously,” he said, “I strike out a lot” – but what happens around those strikeouts is going to help color a division race.

The Dodgers and Diamondbacks pitch alike. They win and lose alike. And their GMs, for one stretch drive, began to think alike. One hitter, one deep threat, one guy who can drag a club along for five or six weeks, who maybe wins a division.

Just as Ramirez has lightened the load on Matt Kemp, James Loney and Andre Ethier, Dunn is a nice place to lean for Reynolds, Chris Young and Stephen Drew.

“It just seems like it takes a lot of pressure off a lot of the guys,” Melvin said. “Nailing down the four-hole for us allows guys not to press so much.”

So out with the prospects and in with the heavy bats, the broad backs, the significant Septembers. That’s good because the first 4½ months, for the most part, weren’t so significant.

“For so long we played poorly, and nobody really gained on us,” Melvin said. “We’re lucky to be in the position we are.”

Tell Dunn about it.

“This is something,” he said, “I’ve been waiting for since I’ve been in the big leagues.”

Raisor
08-21-2008, 09:51 AM
I'm glad he's having fun

flyer85
08-21-2008, 09:53 AM
You're just an incredibly productive player folks didn't appreciate because you're not someone who folks wanted you to be.
In the end the biggest problem that Dunn had is that he wasn't Albert Pujols.

Ltlabner
08-21-2008, 10:00 AM
Don't try to be someone you're not. Just be Adam Dunn.

Thats some wild stuff man.

RedsManRick
08-21-2008, 10:15 AM
“When I talked to Adam, I told him, ‘Don’t try to be something you’re not,’ ” Diamondbacks manager Bob Melvin said. “Just be Adam Dunn. And he’s been exactly that.”

Imagine that. How many Reds managers have tried to make Dunn in to something else?

BRM
08-21-2008, 10:26 AM
Imagine that. How many Reds managers have tried to make Dunn in to something else?

Reds announcers and fans always wanted him to be something he's not as well.

lollipopcurve
08-21-2008, 10:28 AM
“When I talked to Adam, I told him, ‘Don’t try to be something you’re not,’ ” Diamondbacks manager Bob Melvin said. “Just be Adam Dunn.

And play right field, for now. Then maybe play a little first base.

You know, like you've always done.

flyer85
08-21-2008, 10:30 AM
Reds announcers and fans always wanted him to be something he's not as well.they wanted him to be like that guy in St. Louis, he could have. He's just stubborn and liked to hit as many HRs as possible and was a loafer who didn't want to work to get any better.

Chip R
08-21-2008, 10:46 AM
they wanted him to be like that guy in St. Louis, he could have. He's just stubborn and liked to hit as many HRs as possible and was a loafer who didn't want to work to get any better.

oregonred
08-21-2008, 03:49 PM
If Dunn has a good stretch run it will be interesting to see if/what the DBacks offer him as a LTC in the offseason.

As most of us diehards shake our heads, it is just maddening and frustrating that in a sport built on its history, you can start a franchise a decade ago and be light years ahead of a historic franchise like the Reds in strategy, execution and perception.

osuceltic
08-21-2008, 04:03 PM
“When I talked to Adam, I told him, ‘Don’t try to be something you’re not,’ ” Diamondbacks manager Bob Melvin said. “Just be Adam Dunn. And he’s been exactly that.”

Imagine that. How many Reds managers have tried to make Dunn in to something else?

They tried to get the best out of him.

Look, if Dunn had played in Cincy like he has played for eight games in Arizona, no one would have had a complaint. He has had a great start with the Diamondbacks. Either he's in a really hot streak or he was dogging it in Cincinnati. Time will tell.

nate
08-21-2008, 04:07 PM
I think it's very telling that Dunn goes to Arizona, bats 4th and has a reportedly calming effect on a strikeout prone Arizona offense. Maybe it's a change of scenery thing but how come he's lifting their game up?

nate
08-21-2008, 04:16 PM
wrong thread! nm

Chip R
08-21-2008, 04:20 PM
They tried to get the best out of him.

Look, if Dunn had played in Cincy like he has played for eight games in Arizona, no one would have had a complaint. He has had a great start with the Diamondbacks. Either he's in a really hot streak or he was dogging it in Cincinnati. Time will tell.


Or he has better players around him.

http://citybeat.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A145891

Sports
The Ghost of Pete Rose Still Haunts the Reds
BY Bill Peterson (http://citybeat.com/gyrobase/Archive?author=oid%3A5934) | Posted 08/20/2008


Somewhere, wafting through the Cincinnati airwaves and above Great American Ball Park, the ghost of Pete Rose hovers like a rain cloud.

No matter how thoroughly Rose is discredited on other grounds, his image as a baseball player continues to define the ideal for Reds fans, which means Reds fans will never be happy with their best players until he's forgotten.

Only the Reds could trade away the National League's leading home run hitter in the middle of the season and suffer almost no public relations fallout. Of course, Adam Dunn is in his walk year, the club is going nowhere and Dunn would be a fool to re-up with the Reds, so the trade made some sense.

But it goes deeper than that. As badly as the Reds need Dunn's production, a good many Reds fans couldn't wait for him to leave, so enslaved are they by the paradigm of a baseball player they learned from Rose, whose like has not re-appeared in the major leagues since he left the game 20 years ago.

Understanding that many Reds fans see the game differently and more clearly, it remains that a large and influential swath of Reds fans and commentators simply can't value a baseball player unless his backside is on fire. How else is one to understand the enmity toward a player who consistently hit 40 homers with 100 RBI and 100 runs?

It's one matter to say a player has room for improvement. It's quite another to suggest he leave town because his collar isn't blue enough.

Like no other player, Dunn illustrates the chasm between fans who assess players by images and those who assess players by the numbers. Dunn will never win with the image crowd because of his big, slow approach to the game. If Pete Rose was Charlie Hustle, then Adam Dunn is Big Donkey.

Arguably, though, the value of statistics lies in their usefulness for sizing up players like Dunn and, conversely, for helping us see through players who put on a good show without producing.

Unlike the images, the numbers are real, true facts. And the facts tell a pretty good story about Dunn, even in so-called clutch hitting situations. Without laboring through the various clutch numbers, just consider one in which on the face of it Dunn fares poorly, understanding that the sample size is ridiculously small.

With runners on second and third but no one on first, Dunn has been to the plate 16 times this year with one hit -- so the image crowd says he's poor in the clutch. But Dunn walked six times, five of them intentional, and hit two sacrifice flies. So the most popular numbers show a .125 batting average (one-for-eight) and a .563 OPS. In reality, he produced positive, useful results in nine of those 16 plate appearances with six walks, two sacrifice flies and a single. And that's his worst split by far.

Look through the other clutch scenarios and you'll find that Dunn produces much better numbers, by far, than the league averages. Indeed, he produces numbers worthy of a clean-up hitter. We might not argue that Dunn is one of the great clutch hitters, but the notion that he's a "poor" clutch hitter is simply an illusion wrought by an image to which Reds fans are especially susceptible.

Reds fans are forever falling in love with players like Ryan Freel, Chris Sabo and Tracy Jones while forever denigrating players like Eric Davis, Paul O'Neill and Adam Dunn. And it's true that all the players in the first group have their merits while all the players in the second group have their demerits.

Still, any baseball club would quickly trade Freel, Sabo and Jones for Davis, O'Neill and Dunn, sweating to pull the trigger before the other party comes to its senses and kills the deal. Any baseball club would trade any one of the first group for any one of the second, praying that the commissioner's office doesn't investigate.

While we're at it, let's trade Brandon Phillips to Toronto for David Eckstein even up. Maybe the Jays will throw in Aaron Hill for a longhaired pitcher.

It seems Reds fans won't be happy until they have 25 medium-sized white guys with dirty uniforms. That club won't win, but many Reds fans won't know why.

Hustle, grit and fierce determination are always to be esteemed in baseball players, but without extraordinary skills they'll never add up to more than a nice try. Pete Rose combined all those attributes like no one else, which is why he added up to all but a Hall of Famer.

Rose wasn't just a dirty uniform with a burning desire to play. He possessed unique skills -- maybe not what we'd usually call athletic skills, but baseball skills like remarkable vision, hand-eye coordination and unmatched presence of mind within the game that helped him become the all-time hits leader. To borrow from a nearby basketball coach, Rose isn't coming through that door, which means whoever comes through that door will fail in comparison with the image.

One goes back to a well-targeted remark some years ago from former Reds first baseman Todd Benzinger when The Los Angeles Times asked him why baseball fans would still support Rose. Benzinger said every major league park should play a Pete Rose highlight reel before every game, then fans could compare that with what they would see for the next three hours. That guy is nowhere to be found on a baseball field anywhere.

We certainly didn't find him standing in left field at Great American Ball Park for all these years. What we did find there was the only guy on the club who could be counted on year after year and day after day. You knew exactly what you were going to get, and it was going to be a lot. It wasn't going to be everything, but no one player can do everything.

Baseball is a team game. Some guys pitch, some guys hit home runs, some guys cut off base hits through the middle, some guys lead. The best producer on the club isn't necessarily the emotional center. Insisting that Dunn's lack of fire killed the Reds ignores the blatant reality that the Reds are full of holes everywhere else one looks.

If you put Pete Rose in left field instead of Adam Dunn, this is still a poor ball club. Rose will tell you he had a lot of help. Joe Morgan didn't need Pete Rose to make himself a good baseball player, and neither did Johnny Bench or Tony Perez.

The four of them together were magic. Which four players on the Reds this year add up to magic?

Ever since Rose went away, Reds fans are pathologically driven to hate on their best players, failing to realize that their second, third, fifth and 10th best players are the problem. So long as the Reds and their fans bank on one great player combining all the virtues to take them anywhere, they'll go nowhere, because Pete Rose isn't coming back.

RedsManRick
08-21-2008, 05:16 PM
What a spot on article by Peterson. Just great stuff. Glad to see somebody put it in print.

redsmetz
08-21-2008, 05:17 PM
What a spot on article by Peterson. Just great stuff. Glad to see somebody put it in print.

I agree. Thanks for posting it, Chip. I meant to put it up when I picked up this week's issue.

nate
08-21-2008, 05:32 PM
Excellent read!

flyer85
08-21-2008, 06:12 PM
Dunn was just a dogging good for nothing loafer ... that's why the Reds are winning now that he is gone.

Caveat Emperor
08-21-2008, 06:18 PM
It seems Reds fans won't be happy until they have 25 medium-sized white guys with dirty uniforms. That club won't win, but many Reds fans won't know why.

Probably the most accurate statement I've ever read regarding the average "Joe Redsfans" who populate this town.

westofyou
08-21-2008, 07:01 PM
Probably the most accurate statement I've ever read regarding the average "Joe Redsfans" who populate this town.

Reds Scrappy HOF

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52495

traderumor
08-21-2008, 07:16 PM
Probably the most accurate statement I've ever read regarding the average "Joe Redsfans" who populate this town.I think its a fine example of a strawman argument and a caricature designed to make some folks, including the writer, feel like they "get it."

klw
08-21-2008, 07:22 PM
He's a hit in Arizona. I didn't see this linked. Hope it hasn't been already.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/123666


Bordow: Dunn frees up D-Backs to be themselves
Comments 1| Recommend 0
Scott Bordow, Tribune
You want to know about the Adam Dunn effect?

OK, here goes:

Bottom of the first inning Wednesday at Chase Field. The San Diego Padres have a 4-0 lead and Jake Peavy on the mound.

Diamondbacks survive slugfest with Padres

That's as sure of a thing as there is in baseball.

Then Augie Ojeda doubles to left. Conor Jackson draws a base on balls.

Dunn, standing just outside the on-deck circle, walks slowly to the plate.

He's hitting .292 with one homer and five RBIs in seven games with the Diamondbacks. Nice numbers, but that Manny guy is going nuts in Los Angeles.

Dunn works the count full, showing off the batting eye that has him leading the major leagues in walks.

Peavy, a power pitcher, throws his best pitch: A 93mph fastball over the inside part of the plate.

Dunn, a power hitter, swings and hammers it over the right-field fence.

The Padres' lead is cut to 4-3. And the shot is heard 356 miles away at Dodger Stadium.

"I think it was huge," Dunn said after the Diamondbacks' 8-6 victory. "You don't really expect to score a lot of runs off one of the game's best pitchers."

Everyone wants to talk about the statistical impact Dunn has had on the Diamondbacks' offense. Arizona is averaging 6.7 runs per game since his arrival, and it's become much more selective at the plate, drawing 6.2 walks per contest.

Are the rest of the D-Backs taking a cue from Dunn, whose on-base percentage is a ridiculous .513? Who knows.

But it can't be a complete coincidence that a free-swinging team suddenly has discovered the joy of ball four.

"All I know is that I'm getting a heck of a lot more at-bats with runners on base," third baseman Mark Reynolds said.

Here's what you don't see in the box score: Dunn has freed the Diamondbacks' hitters up to be themselves.

When a team doesn't have a true clean-up hitter, others try to compensate. They fail most of the time because they're trying to be something they're not.

But with Dunn in tow, guys like Chris Young and Jackson and Chad Tracy don't have to try to jack every pitch 400 feet. They know Dunn will take care of the long ball.

"It takes a lot of pressure off a lot of the guys in the lineup," manager Bob Melvin said. "Nailing down that four hole allows guys not to press too much."

Or as Peavy succinctly put it:

"He hits homers. He changes games."

Could these last eight games be an aberration? Sure.

We've seen the Diamondbacks get hot before only to revert to their old, impatient ways. And other than Peavy and Houston's Roy Oswalt, they haven't exactly faced some of baseball's best arms.

For now, though, Arizona is a different team. A better team.

Meanwhile, Manny Ramirez has become L.A.'s newest celebrity, and what a final month of the season this promises to be.

"I like tight pennant races outside our division," Melvin said with a smile. "I would much rather be in the position the (Los Angeles Angels) are."

Sorry, Bob, but that's not going to happen.

It'll be Arizona and Los Angeles, Los Angeles and Arizona, down to the wire.

Unless, of course, Dunn keeps getting on base and the Diamondbacks win it in a walk.

missionhockey21
08-21-2008, 07:41 PM
It seems Reds fans won't be happy until they have 25 medium-sized white guys with dirty uniforms. That club won't win, but many Reds fans won't know why.
I think the white guy comment is a bit unfair. To many, Norris Hopper was seen as a key piece to future success. Brandon Phillips was consider to had been the most unfair ASG "snub" of the Reds by many 700 WLW callers and fans around. Ken Griffey Jr. caused many to buy their first Reds player jersey. I don't think race is an issue.

I agree with your overall premise though in regards to scrappy, dirty uniformed players though. But I think if there was a group of rag-tag average aliens who played harder than the next guy/species and while they didn't have the most talent they made up for it with sheer grit and determination... the fans would go crazy for it.

Always Red
08-21-2008, 07:45 PM
Here's what you don't see in the box score: Dunn has freed the Diamondbacks' hitters up to be themselves.

When a team doesn't have a true clean-up hitter, others try to compensate. They fail most of the time because they're trying to be something they're not.

Wow, so it turns out all along that Dunn was a true clean up hitter?? ;)

vaticanplum
08-21-2008, 07:55 PM
Wow, so it turns out all along that Dunn was a true clean up hitter?? ;)

Dunn bats fifth!! DUNN BATS FIFTH!!!

Always Red
08-21-2008, 08:02 PM
Dunn bats fifth!! DUNN BATS FIFTH!!!

Yes, on dysfunctional teams!

MWM
08-21-2008, 08:05 PM
I've always thought that Dunn was eventually going to go somewhere else and blossom in an organzation that leaves him alone and lets him be who is is without trying to mold him into something he's not. Maybe AZ is that place, only time will tell. But if he's used correctly and is left alone, he could blossom. My guess is he'll be pretty similar to what he's been with the Reds. But if he does blossom, I don't think for a second it would an indictment on him and his "loafing." If he goes to another organization and becomes a much better player, it will be an indictment on the Reds organization without question.

traderumor
08-21-2008, 08:19 PM
My goodness, all the folks who are normally warning the poor baseball bumpkins about small sample size, all giddy with excitement over the daily exploits of a player over a two week time frame, one who is in the midst of the baseball equivalent of having a hot new girl friend...

MWM
08-21-2008, 08:25 PM
My goodness, all the folks who are normally warning the poor baseball bumpkins about small sample size, all giddy with excitement over the daily exploits of a player over a two week time frame, one who is in the midst of the baseball equivalent of having a hot new girl friend...

And the guy who can't post in a thread without accusing others of a strawman, just made one of his own.

Ltlabner
08-21-2008, 08:49 PM
"He hits homers. He changes games."

But the strike outs! The girly-walks! Don't these people realize he doesn't even like baseball?!?!?!

jojo
08-21-2008, 08:55 PM
And the guy who can't post in a thread without accusing others of a strawman, just made one of his own.

Even though your thoughts are http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/sport020.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org), it's still probably best to just ignore thread poison.

IMHO, .308/.514/.615 in the heat of a playoff battle is plain cool even if it's just 40 or so PA's.

traderumor
08-21-2008, 09:05 PM
Even though your thoughts are http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/sport020.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org), it's still probably best to just ignore thread poison.

IMHO, .308/.514/.615 in the heat of a playoff battle is plain cool even if it's just 40 or so PA's.Well, now two folks show they don't know what a strawman argument is in the first place. I know who argues what around here, and the same folks arguing small sample size are now using one to advance their own presuppositions. Most folks like to be consistent, but there are also those, like yourselves, who use double standards when it suits their position.

Speaking of irony, you obviously couldn't ignore the "poison." :rolleyes:

RedEye
08-21-2008, 09:26 PM
I think the white guy comment is a bit unfair. To many, Norris Hopper was seen as a key piece to future success. Brandon Phillips was consider to had been the most unfair ASG "snub" of the Reds by many 700 WLW callers and fans around. Ken Griffey Jr. caused many to buy their first Reds player jersey. I don't think race is an issue.

I agree with your overall premise though in regards to scrappy, dirty uniformed players though. But I think if there was a group of rag-tag average aliens who played harder than the next guy/species and while they didn't have the most talent they made up for it with sheer grit and determination... the fans would go crazy for it.

While I agree with you that race isn't necessarily an issue with Reds fans in describing their ideal prototype players, I do tend to think that the word "scrappy" does have veiled racial connotations in MLB (as do terms like "throwback," "head case" and "hot dog").

jojo
08-21-2008, 09:34 PM
Everyone who is arguing that Dunn's last 40 PA's are representative of his true skill set and is what we should expect he will consistently produce in the future over a great many PA's say, "I'm now a believer!".

Everyone who is simply enjoying Dunn put up some insane numbers in a context where they are actually meaningful but make no assertion that he'll do this forever from this point on say, "I'm enjoying Dunn's recent stretch and it's fun to talk about it!".

jojo
08-21-2008, 09:34 PM
"I'm enjoying Dunn's recent stretch and it's fun to talk about it!"

Patrick Bateman
08-21-2008, 09:35 PM
"I'm enjoying Dunn's recent stretch and it's fun to talk about it!"

Highlifeman21
08-21-2008, 09:37 PM
I think the white guy comment is a bit unfair. To many, Norris Hopper was seen as a key piece to future success. Brandon Phillips was consider to had been the most unfair ASG "snub" of the Reds by many 700 WLW callers and fans around. Ken Griffey Jr. caused many to buy their first Reds player jersey. I don't think race is an issue.

I agree with your overall premise though in regards to scrappy, dirty uniformed players though. But I think if there was a group of rag-tag average aliens who played harder than the next guy/species and while they didn't have the most talent they made up for it with sheer grit and determination... the fans would go crazy for it.

If Norris Hopper is seen as a key piece to future success, then the Reds will continue to be a lousy ballclub and a lousy organization.

nate
08-21-2008, 09:37 PM
"I'm enjoying Dunn's recent stretch and it's fun to talk about it!"

AtomicDumpling
08-21-2008, 09:40 PM
"I'm enjoying Dunn's recent stretch and it's fun to talk about it!"

SteelSD
08-21-2008, 09:47 PM
"I don't even care about Dunn's recent stretch, but I'm enjoying that a MLB organization, their fans, media, and Manager appear to both understand and appreciate him and it's fun to talk about it."

Raisor
08-21-2008, 10:16 PM
"I like pie".

deltachi8
08-21-2008, 10:16 PM
"I like pie".

With ice cream

Highlifeman21
08-21-2008, 10:16 PM
"I don't even care about Dunn's recent stretch, but I'm enjoying that a MLB organization, their fans, media, and Manager appear to both understand and appreciate him and it's fun to talk about it."

Now just wait a gosh darn minute, you're tellin' me Adam Dunn got traded?

"I just like talking about Adam Dunn in any context"

MWM
08-21-2008, 10:18 PM
Well, now two folks show they don't know what a strawman argument is in the first place. I know who argues what around here, and the same folks arguing small sample size are now using one to advance their own presuppositions. Most folks like to be consistent, but there are also those, like yourselves, who use double standards when it suits their position.


Yeah, I know what a strawman is and your last post is a good example of one. No one was arguing that 40 PAs means anything, yet that's the argument you were being critical of. That's textbook strawman; attributing a position to someone else and arguing against that position when that someone else never made such an argument. My point was that no one was suggesting the sample was representive of anything (show me where someone said otherwise. I just went back and re-read everything and no one, not even the "small sample size" crowd even remotely suggested that his small sample in AZ meant he was a different player). People were responding to the overall approach the AZ organization seems to be taking with him, specifically Melvin's comment about letting him be who he is. That's it, and that was very clear in the thread. The argument that the "small sample size" crowd was drawing conclusions on a small sample was never made. You made that up yourself, hence the strawman.

Sea Ray
08-21-2008, 10:40 PM
He's a hit in Arizona. I didn't see this linked.

If they re-sign him I'll be convinced he's a hit. If they let him go at the end of the year then they will have made the same long term decision on him that the Reds did.

missionhockey21
08-21-2008, 11:29 PM
If Norris Hopper is seen as a key piece to future success, then the Reds will continue to be a lousy ballclub and a lousy organization.
I certainly wasn't speaking from my perspective. But if we were taking trending data based on popularity, I can guarantee you that among the typical 700 WLW caller, Hopper at points would rank higher than Dunn, probably more than any would like to admit.

Players like him and Freel are seen as scrappy, hard-working and could cause "excitement" during the game to change momentum. Dunn was seen as lumbering, slow, and if he hit a homerun it wasn't because he wanted to but it was rather that was ALL he could do. I think even someone on the board called him (Dunn) an "ogre."

Degenerate39
08-21-2008, 11:33 PM
"I'm enjoying Dunn's recent stretch and it's fun to talk about it!"




Just thought I'd join in

mbgrayson
08-21-2008, 11:52 PM
"I'm enjoying Dunn's recent stretch and it's fun to talk about it!"

Per the AZ TV guys:
"Dunn is 4 for 8 with 6 walks with runners in scoring position as a Diamondback."

toledodan
08-22-2008, 12:01 AM
"I'm enjoying Dunn's recent stretch and it's fun to talk about it!"

Per the AZ TV guys:
"Dunn is 4 for 8 with 6 walks with runners in scoring position as a Diamondback."



i'm watching as well. they are just letting dunn be dunn. he looks so relaxed even in the playoff run. :thumbup:

OnBaseMachine
08-22-2008, 12:45 AM
"I'm enjoying Dunn's recent stretch and it's fun to talk about it!".

Razor Shines
08-22-2008, 12:52 AM
"I'm enjoying Dunn's recent stretch and it's fun to talk about it!"

RedsManRick
08-22-2008, 01:13 AM
"Dunn is enjoying Dunn's recent stretch and it's fun to watch Dunn enjoy it!"

mth123
08-22-2008, 04:01 AM
But wait! Dunn Sucks, Right? That three run HR against Peavy was nothing. Heck, it was a meaningless shot in a game where his team had fallen far behind. It wasn't in a late or close situation. It didn't put his team ahead or win the game. It only drove in one guy who was in scoring position so he really shouldn't get any credit for the other two runs from it. A single that extended the rally would have been the better outcome, obviously. After that HR there was no one on base to put pressure on the defense. He just hit a HR because he's lazy and didn't want to have to run hard. ;)

BTW:

"I'm enjoying Dunn's recent stretch and it's fun to talk about it!"

boognish
08-22-2008, 05:02 AM
"I'm enjoying Dunn's recent stretch and it's fun to talk about it!"

What he said.

I wish the first winning team to which Dunn's production contributed had been the Cincinnati Reds.

I miss Adam Dunn already.

Highlifeman21
08-22-2008, 11:29 AM
I certainly wasn't speaking from my perspective. But if we were taking trending data based on popularity, I can guarantee you that among the typical 700 WLW caller, Hopper at points would rank higher than Dunn, probably more than any would like to admit.

Players like him and Freel are seen as scrappy, hard-working and could cause "excitement" during the game to change momentum. Dunn was seen as lumbering, slow, and if he hit a homerun it wasn't because he wanted to but it was rather that was ALL he could do. I think even someone on the board called him (Dunn) an "ogre."

And I hope it didn't sound like I was lumping you into the Norris Hopper fanclub.

Last year was very telling when the poofy haired one said that the Reds were a better team with Norris Hopper in the lineup than Adam Dunn. The masses took what he said as gospel, and in turn elevated Hopper's status.

I definitely agree with the notion that's been bumped around like a volleyball of "Reds fans want more Pete Roses, and less Eric Davises."

paulrichjr
08-25-2008, 10:40 AM
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=stark_jayson


Get out the rye bread, grandma. It's time once again to honor the most sandwich-worthy feats of the week.

STRIKE ONE -- THE ON-A-ROLL AWARD: Adam Dunn isn't a dreadlock kind of guy. He also isn't a hide-inside-the-scoreboard, cut-off-his-own-center fielder's-relay-throw or can't-remember-which-knee-needed-an-MRI kind of guy.

Dunn

But just because he isn't Manny Ramirez, in just about any way, doesn't mean he can't make an impact, simply by being an Adam Dunn kind of guy. Unlike Manny, Dunn isn't hitting .400 for his new team. (He's at .296, if you're calculating along at home.) But amazingly, the Diamondbacks seem to have noticed he's around, anyway. Since he entered that Arizona lineup on Aug. 12, here's what he has done:

• Walked 14 times -- more than any player in either league.

• Compiled a .537 on-base percentage -- second among all National League hitters (behind only Geovany Soto, who is at .556).

• And struck out only seven times in 41 visits to home plate -- which isn't exactly zero, but it's still fewer times than Derek Jeter, Lance Berkman or (how 'bout this?) Manny himself has whiffed in the same span.

So is it some kind of cute coincidence that since Dunn showed up the Diamondbacks are 7-2, have averaged 6.3 runs a game or have piled up a .380 team on-base percentage? Hey, you know what? It's not.

Dunn may be one of the rarest offensive players of modern times. If you enjoy count-working, a few hundred at-bats a year in which the ball never leaves the batter's box and a whole bunch of fly balls that come down around the burrito stand, this fellow can definitely spew out all of that. And now he even has his own sandwich award to show for it.

TeamBoone
08-28-2008, 03:49 PM
Great article (IMHO).

Note that two stat tables appear in the article that I'm unable to copy for some reason. To review them, you'll have to go to the original article. I've provided the link at the end of the article.


Thursday, August 28, 2008

Why No Love For the Big Donkey?
By Mike Round

Adam Dunn provokes resentment from all sides of the baseball divide — from old-schoolers like Joe Morgan to Moneyball-loving, computer nerds like J.P. Ricciardi. Morgan once chastised him on ESPN for hitting 40 home runs in 2006 but "only" having 92 RBIs, as if it was Dunn's fault there was hardly anyone on base for him while he was slugging his butt off. Ricciardi recently made a total fool of himself on a Toronto radio station for claiming that Dunn doesn't like baseball that much so he wasn't interested in acquiring him, despite the fact that if his anemic Blue Jay team acquired Micah Owings, he'd be more use to the team as a slugger than a pitcher.

The prosecution's case against Dunn is pretty straightforward. He strikes out a lot, his batting average is dreadful, he chokes with men on base, and he can't field.

No one is disputing Dunn strikes out a ton. He's a fixture around the top of the strikeout list every year. He's in his eighth year in the league and he's struck out 1,223 times in 3,763 ABs — quite a record.

His career batting average is an extremely pedestrian .247. Whether this is a big negative depends on your point of view as to how important batting average is. Old schoolers love it. Personally, I think it's the second worst statistic in baseball in terms of measuring worth — using wins to measure a pitcher being the absolute worst.

Dunn is possibly the worst outfielder in the National League. Even his mother covers her eyes when he's fielding. He's a stereotypical DH, but is marooned in the wrong league.

The "choking" accusation is the one that really hurts Dunn's reputation, and will, without doubt, affect his pay check this offseason when he's a free agent. Jon Heyman on SI.com recently tagged Dunn as "rarely coming through in the clutch" and worth "J.D. Drew money." Quite an insult considering Drew has only twice hit more than 20 home runs in a 10-year career and — to use old-school statistics to bash an old-school writer — only once has driven in 100 runs, mainly because, it has to be said, he's constantly on the DL, unlike that big choker Dunn.

Is Dunn a choker as Heyman and others claim? Does he prefer glorious solo shots so he can preen around the bases basking in singular glory or is he a team guy who likes a homo-erotic butt slap around home plate after a 450-foot 3-run homer?

What is "clutch", anyway? Is it a bases empty, 2-out, single in the bottom of the ninth when your team is 3 runs down, or is it a bases loaded, 0-2 count, home run when you're 12-0 up? No one has truly defined "clutch" except Joe Buck, who insists clutch is any famous player, except Alex Rodriguez, and anyone who wears a Red Sox uniform.

As I believe "clutch" is simply a lazy journalistic term that covers only "SportsCenter" highlight reel plays, I will address the issue of whether Dunn hits better, worse, or the same as his career average with RISP.

Dunn has been in the league long enough to draw some reasonable conclusions from his career numbers, which are reproduced below. The first obvious conclusion is that his bases empty numbers are almost a replication of his career numbers, with a slight dip in OBP. Dunn has hit 152 solo home runs in his career, more than with runners on base by a good margin, but he's had 2,128 ABs in that situation, 500 more ABs than with runners on.

[Table here]

RISP, 2 out shows a dip from the career average in every category except OBP, a nice tool for the knockers who claim that hitters like Dunn prefer to walk than take the responsibility of driving in the runner(s).

Dunn has been walked a staggering 300 times in 938 ABs with RISP. However, this isn't surprising given that a succession of managers in Cincinnati have seen fit to bat him at sixth or even seventh in the lineup, giving pitchers the ideal opportunity to either IBB him or pitch carefully around him. Dangerous hitters like Dunn can't hit at the bottom of the lineup without risking being pitched around, but Dusty Baker and others don't like "clogging the bases" with big guys. He should be hitting second or third in a NL lineup.

The theory that Dunn gets nothing to hit with RISP gets more credence once the bases loaded figures are examined. Batting average sees a 30-point spike, OBP drops, and slugging/OPS rises 100 points. He also walks about as much as he does with bases empty and below his career numbers.

With a man on third and less than 2 outs, the figures show another spike from the career norm. In just 179 career ABs in this situation, Dunn has driven in 135 non-choking RBI's.

[Table here]

In comparison with Mister Clutch himself, David Ortiz, Dunn is a notch below, but the numbers indicate he's quite prepared to shorten his swing or sac fly when the situation calls for it.

Overall, these aren't the numbers of a choker, but the likes of Joe Morgan, a succession of Reds beat writers, and Jon Heyman are far too important to waste their time doing a bit of research to substantiate their dubious claims. Dunn has a number of holes in his game that are well-documented, but not being a "clutch" hitter isn't one of them.

Dunn is a free agent this offseason. He should move to the AL, where he can DH. His career DH numbers, admittedly a very small sample size of 36 ABs, are significantly better than his career numbers. Not every player can adapt to DHing, and Dunn may be one who can't, but he'd be a perfect fit at Yankee Stadium, where the short porch to RF would be very inviting. At 28 and in today's fiscal climate, he's worth $15 million a year of any GMs money.
http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2008/08/28/why_no_love_for_the_big_donkey.php

flyer85
08-30-2008, 12:03 AM
tonight Berkman hit a HR in the bottom of the 9th to beat the Cards. Happened to be his 1st career walkoff HR(according to SC). Dunn hit 7 walkoff HRs in his time with the Reds.

OnBaseMachine
08-30-2008, 12:28 AM
Dunner is currently going through one of those worst power outages of his career. He belted two homeruns on July 30th (Griffey's last game as a Red) to give him 32 homeruns on the season. It appeared he was well on his way to a 45 homerun season, but since that point he's hit only two homeruns in 86 atbats in August, leaving him with 34 on the season. Hopefully he can find his power stroke again and reach 40 homeruns for the fifth straight season.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2008, 03:29 AM
Is he a 9 figure salary the Reds were going to afford? Nope. Quite honestlty, I haven't paid much attention to what he's done in AZ. Good to hear he's having success so far......even if the long ball isn't there right now

Ron Madden
08-30-2008, 04:57 AM
Is he a 9 figure salary the Reds were going to afford? Nope. Quite honestlty, I haven't paid much attention to what he's done in AZ. Good to hear he's having success so far......even if the long ball isn't there right now


You never paid much attention to what he did in Cincinnati eighther.

You're just like Seg-Man, Furman, and Lance. You don't have an opinion, you wait to hear what Marty thinks then you automatically agree with him.

:p:

GAC
08-30-2008, 07:01 AM
Dunner is currently going through one of those worst power outages of his career. He belted two homeruns on July 30th (Griffey's last game as a Red) to give him 32 homeruns on the season. It appeared he was well on his way to a 45 homerun season, but since that point he's hit only two homeruns in 86 atbats in August, leaving him with 34 on the season. Hopefully he can find his power stroke again and reach 40 homeruns for the fifth straight season.

Yeah but when he is not hitting Hrs he's doing this (contributing), as the article above illustrates since the trade....

• Walked 14 times -- more than any player in either league.

• Compiled a .537 on-base percentage -- second among all National League hitters (behind only Geovany Soto, who is at .556).

• And struck out only seven times in 41 visits to home plate -- which isn't exactly zero, but it's still fewer times than Derek Jeter, Lance Berkman or (how 'bout this?) Manny himself has whiffed in the same span.

RFS62
08-30-2008, 08:55 AM
Yeah but when he is not hitting Hrs he's doing this (contributing), as the article above illustrates since the trade....

• Walked 14 times -- more than any player in either league.

• Compiled a .537 on-base percentage -- second among all National League hitters (behind only Geovany Soto, who is at .556).

• And struck out only seven times in 41 visits to home plate -- which isn't exactly zero, but it's still fewer times than Derek Jeter, Lance Berkman or (how 'bout this?) Manny himself has whiffed in the same span.


Boy, GAC has come a long way from his tobacco chewing neanderthal days.

Teaching GAC how to look up stats to make his arguments...... well, it reminds me of giving a drunken monkey a machine gun in a crowded mall.

:p:

mth123
08-30-2008, 09:05 AM
Boy, GAC has come a long way from his tobacco chewing neanderthal days.

Teaching GAC how to look up stats to make his arguments...... well, it reminds me of giving a drunken monkey a machine gun in a crowded mall.

:p:

Nah. He cut and pasted from post 143.;)

LoganBuck
08-30-2008, 12:24 PM
Adam Dunn Authentic Jerseys were marked down from $275 to $25 at the pro shop.

GAC
08-31-2008, 05:16 AM
Nah. He cut and pasted from post 143.;)

You know, it's taken me 8 years to establish my reputation and convince these fools on here that I know what I'm talking about, and you just had to bust my bubble didn't you? :p:

Boy that just fries my chicken!

Cut n paste - the greatest invention since duct tape.

GAC
08-31-2008, 05:17 AM
Adam Dunn Authentic Jerseys were marked down from $275 to $25 at the pro shop.

Adam who? :confused:

Degenerate39
08-31-2008, 11:15 AM
Adam who? :confused:

That fat lazy guy who sat in his recliner in left field.