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View Full Version : Arizona's Top 20 Prospects from BP? / C. Trent says PTBNL will come from these six



Kingspoint
08-11-2008, 08:38 PM
....

Blue
08-11-2008, 08:47 PM
What's it matter? We've already got Dallas Buck, and he has a fresh arm because someone else's ligament is in his elbow! Isn't that enough?

These other two players coming our way better be world beaters.

texasdave
08-11-2008, 09:00 PM
From John Sickels site: Note this list is from January, 2008. Some of these players may have moved on.

Arizona Diamondbacks Top 20 In Review by John Sickels on Aug 1, 2008 7:03 PM EDT

This list was originally posted January 5, 2008. THIS IS NOT A NEW LIST. THIS IS A REVIEW OF THE OLD LIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1) Jarrod Parker, RHP, Grade B+
3.87 ERA with 84/28 K/BB in 91 innings for Class A South Bend, 91 hits allowed. Overall his holding his own although he hasn't been super-spectacular.
2) Max Scherzer, RHP, Grade B+
Was blowing away the PCL and did well in the majors, 2.90 ERA with 33/14 K/BB in 31 innings. It all depends on if he can stay healthy or not.
3) Gerardo Parra, OF, Grade B
.301/.381/.413 with 12 steals in 50 games in the California League, .263/.335/.365 with 12 steals in 46 games in the Southern League. I'm starting to worry that he won't develop enough power.
4) Billy Buckner, RHP, Grade B
4.73 ERA with 63/39 K/BB in 110 innings for Triple-A Tucson. Status hasn't changed much, could be a nice fourth starter or a decent reliever.
5) Wes Roemer, RHP, Grade B
4.44 ERA with 92/30 K/BB in 128 innings for Visalia in the Cal League, 154 hits allowed. Good command, but no margin for error.
6) Brooks Brown, RHP, Grade B-
3.63 ERA with 92/52 K/BB in 119 innings for Double-A Mobile, 113 hits allowed. A decent but not excellent performance, needs sharper command.
7) Esmerling Vasquez, RHP, Grade B-
7.23 ERA with 46/65 K/BB in 71 innings for Triple-A Tucson, 68 hits allowed. Everything has collapsed here, strikeout rate way down.
8) Barry Enright, RHP, Grade B-
4.65 ERA with 110/30 K/BB in 128 innings, 150 hits allowed for Visalia. Like Roemer, he's got great command but is there enough stuff?
9) Juan Gutierrez, RHP, Grade C+
6.83 ERA with 64/33 K/BB in 82 innings, 118 hits allowed in Triple-A. They need to stop using the flubber ball in Tucson.
10) Emilio Bonifacio, INF, Grade C+
Was hitting .302/.348/.387 with 17 steals for Tucson, then was traded to Nationals for Jon Rauch.
11) Hector Ambriz, RHP, Grade C+
5.40 ERA with 97/37 K/BB in 127 innings, 138 hits allowed for Mobile. Another guy with command but perhaps not quite enough oomph.
12) Matt Torra, RHP, Grade C+
2.85 ERA with 50/12 K/BB in 79 innings for Mobile, then 4.37 ERA with 22/11 K/BB in 45 innings for Tucson. Excellent control, has proven he's healthy after labrum problems but K/IP is unimpressive.
13) Cyle Hankerd, OF, Grade C+
.233/.275/.319 for Mobile, 16 walks and 51 strikeouts in 361 at-bats. Not looking like a prospect right now.
14) Ed Easley, C, Grade C+
.244/.303/.341 for Visalia, with 28 walks and 82 strikeouts in 352 at-bats. Weak discipline and poor production, not what you want to see obviously.
15) Dan Stange, RHP, Grade C+
Limited sample, but a good one: 1.59 ERA with 17/1 K/BB in 17 innings for South Bend, 11 hits allowed. Just promoted to Viisalia, threw a scoreless inning with two Ks yesterday. Very intriguing.
16) Jailen Peguero, RHP, Grade C
Surviving Tucson, 4.42 ERA with 60/36 K/BB in 59 innings, 56 hits. Relief candidate going forward.
17) Matt Green, RHP, Grade C
4.91 ERA with 20/10 K/BB in 26 innings, 33 hits allowed for Mobile. Not impressive.
18) Reynaldo Navarro, SS, Grade C
.256/.352/.340 with 12 steals in 40 games for Missoula in the Pioneer League. Toolsy, but lots of questions about his bat.
19) Leo Rosales, RHP, Grade C
4.08 ERA with 27/13 K/BB in 35 innings for Tucson, 2.87 ERA with 11/8 K/BB in 16 innings for Arizona. A relief sleeper pre-season and has done well enough to get more chances.
20) Sean Morgan, RHP, Grade C
Massive control problems, 11.37 ERA with 5/7 K/BB in 6 innings for Yakima.

Not the greatest year for Arizona prospects other than Scherzer and Parker. The guys with good command might not have enough stuff, and the guys with the stuff may not have the command. Tucson seems death on pitchers. Trades weakened the depth of his system.

big boy
08-11-2008, 10:41 PM
because someone else's ligament is in his elbow!

Yeah, only the ligament came from his non-throwing hand.

schmidty622
08-11-2008, 10:42 PM
The top 20 prospects don't matter. The players we get have to be on the 40 man and have to be minor leaguers. Get your list from that.

fewfirstchoice
08-12-2008, 01:09 AM
Will come from this list of 6 players.

M. Owings, M. Scherzer, J. Peguero these 3 are pitchers

and

W. Castillo Catcher, J. Brito, J. Whitesell the last 2 are 1B.

C. Trent said the Reds wouldnt have made the deal without the D-Backs adding a major league ready pitcher or one of the infielders mentioned above.

If the Reds somehow pull Buck and any 2 of the above mentioned players from the D-Backs it should be looked at as a big win for the Reds.

texasdave
08-12-2008, 01:14 AM
Buck, Owings and Scherzer please. Thank you.

redlegs7089
08-12-2008, 01:14 AM
i hope its scherzer!!! but i doubt that happens

Kingspoint
08-12-2008, 01:16 AM
Let's see how this matches up with this though like you said, the above list is from January and it's John Sickels and not Baseball prospectus or Baseball America.:

C. Trent says the 3 PTBNL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Will come from this list of 6 players.

M. Owings, M. Scherzer, J. Peguero these 3 are pitchers

and

W. Castillo Catcher, J. Brito, J. Whitesell the last 2 are 1B.

C. Trent said the Reds wouldnt have made the deal without the D-Backs adding a major league ready pitcher or one of the infielders mentioned above.

If the Reds somehow pull Buck and any 2 of the above mentioned players from the D-Backs it should be looked at as a big win for the Reds.

Kingspoint
08-12-2008, 01:17 AM
Scherzer is #2, Peguero is #16....

Anyone have access to the mid-season BA or BP reports?

NorrisHopper30
08-12-2008, 01:20 AM
It's not going to be Scherzer.

Not even WK could pull that off. :D

Ahhhorsepoo
08-12-2008, 01:22 AM
whitesell is a pretty decent power bat..

ED44
08-12-2008, 01:22 AM
I'm guessing Owings and Whitesell...

fewfirstchoice
08-12-2008, 01:23 AM
I say it'll be Buck, Owings, and Whitesell. If these are infact the players invovled in the trade it would be a major win for the Reds.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-12-2008, 01:24 AM
if it is anything more than a salary dump it is a huge win for the reds..

fadetoblack2880
08-12-2008, 02:08 AM
if it is anything more than a salary dump it is a huge win for the reds..

Not really a salary dump. Seems the front office had no intentions of bringing Dunn back, so it's more like they wanted to guarantee they would get something for him.

JWP
08-12-2008, 02:43 AM
Um, that's quite a list. I wouldn't hesitate to trade Dunn for Scherzer straight up.

NeilHamburger
08-12-2008, 02:44 AM
One other thing, Owings would legit be the reds best hitter right now. And I'm only half joking. Seriously, best hitting pitcher I've ever seen. Essentially, it'd give you an American League lineup on his starts, and a strong bat to pinch hit on his off days


In 112 career at bats Owings is hitting .313, with a .350 OBP and Slugging .545

Not bad for a pitcher


On days when he starts I'd be all for Cincy hitting him 5th in the lineup. He's that good

walk-off
08-12-2008, 02:45 AM
M. Owings, M. Scherzer, and W. Castillo please with a side order of 2 million dollars. Then we sign Dunn back or Tiexera in November. The front office has to pull something of if they want to sell any tickets next season...

fadetoblack2880
08-12-2008, 02:49 AM
M. Owings, M. Scherzer, and W. Castillo please with a side order of 2 million dollars. Then we sign Dunn back or Tiexera in November. The front office has to pull something of if they want to sell any tickets next season...

I hope...

Redus
08-12-2008, 02:54 AM
I say it'll be Buck, Owings, and Whitesell. If these are infact the players invovled in the trade it would be a major win for the Reds.

Agreed :beerme:

JayBruceFan
08-12-2008, 06:32 AM
I want Owings

He can play left when he isn't pitching

:D

I(heart)Freel
08-12-2008, 08:18 AM
M. Owings, M. Scherzer, and W. Castillo please with a side order of 2 million dollars. Then we sign Dunn back or Tiexera in November. The front office has to pull something of if they want to sell any tickets next season...

We reportedly sent cash to them. Thats one of the reasons I'm optimistic about our return.

Question of the day: when do we find out? Do they have to pass waivers? Will they???

kpresidente
08-12-2008, 09:26 AM
I bet one of them is the catcher, which might have prompted the release of Ross.

improbus
08-12-2008, 09:35 AM
M. Owings, M. Scherzer, and W. Castillo please with a side order of 2 million dollars. Then we sign Dunn back or Tiexera in November. The front office has to pull something of if they want to sell any tickets next season...

That is the attitude that has gotten us in trouble. The Reds were more worried about putting people in the seats than winning. Why do you think they held onto Junior for so long? Don't worry about the tickets, worry about the future. Signing Dunn or Tex would be a mistake if we are really wanting to rebuild.

BTW, we can thank the Red Sox for this Dunn deal. When they traded Manny to the Dodgers they upped the ante in the west.

Redus
08-12-2008, 10:56 AM
M. Owings, M. Scherzer, and W. Castillo please with a side order of 2 million dollars. Then we sign Dunn back or Tiexera in November. The front office has to pull something of if they want to sell any tickets next season...

It wont be Castillo..he played last night and they wouldnt risk him getting hurt. Now Whitesell did not play.....either its a coincidental night off or hes one of the guys. Id be glad if he is.:thumbup:

GoReds33
08-12-2008, 11:44 AM
Question of the day: when do we find out? Do they have to pass waivers? Will they???We'll probably know by tomorrow if they passed through waivers.

TheBigLebowski
08-12-2008, 11:56 AM
Really looks like Buck/Whitesell/Owings. I would be very happy with that return - borderline giddy.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-12-2008, 12:00 PM
i would seriously give owings the rest of the year to find himself pitching wise.. and if he doesnt switch him to an OF in the spring..

Redus
08-12-2008, 12:11 PM
It wont be Castillo..he played last night and they wouldnt risk him getting hurt. Now Whitesell did not play.....either its a coincidental night off or hes one of the guys. Id be glad if he is.:thumbup:

Also Sherzerr pitched last night so FORGET HIM...he's not part of this obviously.

GoReds33
08-12-2008, 12:50 PM
Here are Whitesell's stats this year:


Year Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
2008 AAA-Tucson 110 407 75 135 30 0 22 91 62 116 1 2 .427 .568 .332

TheBigLebowski
08-12-2008, 12:57 PM
I sincerely hope that, if we do get confirmation that the deal is Buck/Whitesell/Owings that people realize what a tremendous haul that is and don't bemoan the lack of Scherzer in the return. It was never a realistic expectation.

BurgervilleBuck
08-12-2008, 12:58 PM
I sincerely hope we just hear something. Soon.

schmidty622
08-12-2008, 01:27 PM
Don't these player to be named deals usually take awhile?

Griffey012
08-12-2008, 01:38 PM
Here are Whitesell's stats this year:


Year Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
2008 AAA-Tucson 110 407 75 135 30 0 22 91 62 116 1 2 .427 .568 .332




:eek: this is the first look Ive had at his stats, and they look great all around. What do you know about him defensively? If it is Buck, Owings, and this guy...seems like we got the good deal Jocketty has been holding for.

texasdave
08-12-2008, 02:04 PM
I can't find it right now but I read somewhere that they are probably allowing the players-to-be-named later to finish the season with their teams. If so, then a Scherzer or whomever playing last night would not necessarily rule them out. In a way this makes sense. If the Reds have 6 players to choose from, it permits the Reds' scouts to watch them play for awhile before selecting whichever 2 they finally decide upon.

schmidty622
08-12-2008, 02:14 PM
Word was the players have already been decided upon.

Keep in mind that Whitesell will be 28 next year.

Griffey012
08-12-2008, 02:15 PM
If Jocketty gets Scherzer, Buck, and any 1 of the other 5 he should be taken to jail for stealing.

schmidty622
08-12-2008, 02:19 PM
We won't get Scherzer. Owings, maybe but I doubt it. I'd be looking for Pequero and J. Brito back in return.

J. Brito actually isn't too terrible, 2 years younger than whitesell too.

texasdave
08-12-2008, 02:22 PM
PTBNL rules:


Player To Be Named Later
Quite often, you'll read that a player has been traded to another team for "a player to be named later."

There are two restrictions at work here. First, the transaction must be completed within six months. And second, the player named later can't have played in the same league as the team he's being traded to. That's why the player named later is almost always a minor leaguer.

And what if the teams can't agree on who that player will be? This happens rarely, but if no names are agreed upon initially, the clubs will agree on a price to paid in lieu of a player.

Sometimes, at the time of the deal the team receiving the player will provide the other club a list of minor leaguers, and later the club will have their pick of the players on that list. This list is negotiated at the time of the trade. In recent years, the Minnesota Twins lost Enrique Wilson this way. When it came time for Cleveland to make their choice, the Twins did what they could to "hide" Wilson, but the Indians found him anyway.

Finally, sometimes "Player to be named later" is used to trade players on the Disabled List, since it can be embarrassing for a club to trade for a guy who's on the DL.

I suppose this means if any of the six on Trent's list are called up then we can safely assume they aren't the ones.

schmidty622
08-12-2008, 02:35 PM
That rules out Scherzer, Owings, and Pequero.

texasdave
08-12-2008, 02:42 PM
That rules out Scherzer, Owings, and Pequero.

The wording is a little nebulous, but I believe it means none of the players can play in the same league after the deal goes down. If they played with the D'Backs earlier in the season that is irrelevant to the situation. That is my understanding, although by no means is that a guarantee.

schmidty622
08-12-2008, 02:44 PM
I read it as saying that said player can not ever have played in the same league. But I dont know anything about it either.

Ghosts of 1990
08-12-2008, 02:48 PM
scherzer would be best case scenario. owings will be a bust.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-12-2008, 02:54 PM
owings will be a solid everyday outfielder since his pitching career is being overshadowed by his ab performance..

schmidty622
08-12-2008, 02:55 PM
Wikipedia makes it sound more like what you were talking about:

"Another interesting circumstance involves the second rule: players must change leagues. Generally to work around this rule minor leaguers are chosen, and thus very few PTBNLs are of star quality."

Maybe it only matters where the player is at the time of the agreement.

Strider
08-12-2008, 03:21 PM
From SOSH

Player to be Named Later
In many trades, one or both of the teams may agree to send "a player to be named later". A specific player must be agreed upon within six months of the initial trade; if this does not occur, the two teams may agree upon a cash amount to be sent instead. Often, the teams will agree to a list of players who can be used as the PTBNL; such an agreement would happen before the trade has been announced, and once the trade is final, the team receiving the PTBNL may take any of the players from the list within six months.

If a team receives a PTBNL, the player must not have been playing in the league to which he is being sent at the time of the trade (e.g. if the Red Sox receive a PTBNL, the player may not have been playing in the American League at the time of the trade). This rule was instituted after Harry Chiti was traded for himself in 1962 (he was traded from the Indians to the Mets for a PTBNL, which turned out to be himself). As a result, PTBNL's are usually minor leaguers. Sometimes, teams will use players on the disabled list as players to be named so as to avoid having to get special permission from the commissioner's office.

redhawk61
08-12-2008, 03:23 PM
Wikipedia makes it sound more like what you were talking about:

"Another interesting circumstance involves the second rule: players must change leagues. Generally to work around this rule minor leaguers are chosen, and thus very few PTBNLs are of star quality."

Maybe it only matters where the player is at the time of the agreement.
Yeah I think it is about where they are when the trade is agreed upon. MLB is considered 1 league, so any one on the 25 is not applicable, regardless of NL or AL.

schmidty622
08-12-2008, 03:30 PM
So if say Scherzer gets the call he would then be ineligble? What if they demote him back down at the end of the year? Or if he is a september call up?

JWP
08-12-2008, 03:58 PM
So if say Scherzer gets the call he would then be ineligble? What if they demote him back down at the end of the year? Or if he is a september call up?

I doubt Max Scherzer is going to be a part of the deal.

I'd love to be wrong though.

Kingspoint
08-12-2008, 06:04 PM
It's 5:04 EST now and I just checked the board for the first time today. I would have thought that the names of the PTBNL would have been released by now...guess not. Wonder what the holdup is? Why are they waiting so long to release the names that they said have already been agreed to?

nemesis
08-12-2008, 07:49 PM
It should be easy to figure out. Its Owings, Buck and ... If Whitesell doesn't play again tonight we have a winner. And Whitesell is only 26 so it would be real hard to age 2 years by this time next year. DOB 4-14-82

Jack Burton
08-12-2008, 08:28 PM
There's no way the DBacks would part with Scherzer for a 2 month donkey rental.