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View Full Version : The Reds New OPS+ leader: Edwin Encarnacion



harangatang
08-12-2008, 01:47 AM
With the departure of Dunn, Edwin Encarnacion now leads the Reds in OPS+ with more than 200 AB's.



Player OPS+
Edwin Encarnacion 111
Joey Votto 104
Brandon Phillips 100
Jay Bruce 96
Jeff Keppinger 72
Paul Bako 63

RedsManRick
08-12-2008, 01:53 AM
And I'd be shocked if Dusty bats him higher than 5th.

Gainesville Red
08-12-2008, 01:56 AM
And I'd be shocked if Dusty bats him higher than 5th.

Got nothing to do w/ Ede. Third basemen bat fifth or lower. Hank told him.

Big Klu
08-12-2008, 03:22 AM
This may be a dumb question, but is OPS+ normalized (like IQ), so that a score of 100 is the mean?

OnBaseMachine
08-12-2008, 03:33 AM
This may be a dumb question, but is OPS+ normalized (like IQ), so that a score of 100 is the mean?

Yep. An OPS+ over 100 is better than average, less than 100 is below average.

Big Klu
08-12-2008, 03:58 AM
Yep. An OPS+ over 100 is better than average, less than 100 is below average.

Are the scores relative to position? in other words, is Phillips (OPS+: 100) considered average among 2B only, or is he average compared to all players?

reds44
08-12-2008, 04:44 AM
Don't worry, Reds fans hates Edwin too, only a matter of time before he follows in Griffey and Dunn's footsteps.

Ltlabner
08-12-2008, 08:00 AM
With the departure of Dunn, Edwin Encarnacion now leads the Reds in OPS+ with more than 200 AB's.



Player OPS+
Edwin Encarnacion 111
Joey Votto 104
Brandon Phillips 100
Jay Bruce 96
Jeff Keppinger 72
Paul Bako 63


Geesssh

Just think of all that vetern goodness behind the dish guiding and mentoring our young pitchers. Isn't it all worth it to have your 6th best player putting up a 63 OPS+ ?

LoganBuck
08-12-2008, 08:30 AM
Get the pitchforks and rile up the villagers.

nate
08-12-2008, 08:50 AM
That's quite something.

Oh well, it's August in the 21st century, Reds fans!

We're used to our place in the standings...

wolfboy
08-12-2008, 10:08 AM
Don't worry, Reds fans hates Edwin too, only a matter of time before he follows in Griffey and Dunn's footsteps.

Volquez and EE = Griffey and Dunn.

durl
08-12-2008, 10:10 AM
Don't worry, Reds fans hates Edwin too, only a matter of time before he follows in Griffey and Dunn's footsteps.

True. Dunn committed errors which (to many) negated his incredibly high offensive production. Meanwhile, EE commits MORE errors (twice as many this year than Dunn) and has lower offensive output.

EE should be glad that he makes a lot less money or else he'd already be run out of town.

SMcGavin
08-12-2008, 11:29 AM
Edwin should play LF now. If the offense is going to suck, let's at least build a good defense.

Will M
08-12-2008, 11:34 AM
The Reds need offense. We knew that.

EE's OPS+ looks great at 3B. Unfortunately he can't play 3B. He is only 25 years old so his OPS+ may improve. I expect him to play LF in 2009 ( if he isn't traded ) so we will see how he does. Once he starts making some big money his OPS+ needs to be higher than 110 to play LF.

Will M
08-12-2008, 11:38 AM
Votto and Bruce are rookies & will hopefully improve. They better improve quick because in the short term the Reds are counting on them for a lot.

IMO Phillips's OPS+ of 100 at 2B with his gold glove defense is fine.

So we have RF, LF, 1B & 2B covered. Hanigan and Dickerson get to audition for 2009. I really really hope Walt is stockpiling 'B' prospects to try to trade for a SS and a 3B.

OnBaseMachine
08-12-2008, 12:26 PM
Are the scores relative to position? in other words, is Phillips (OPS+: 100) considered average among 2B only, or is he average compared to all players?

No, OPS+ is only adjusted for the park and the league.

harangatang
08-12-2008, 02:46 PM
IMO Phillips's OPS+ of 100 at 2B with his gold glove defense is fine.I think it would be fine as well if Dusty didn't bat him in the cleanup spot all year.

SMcGavin
08-13-2008, 11:54 AM
Micah Owings has a 124 OPS+ for his career.

RedsManRick
08-13-2008, 12:01 PM
Owings would be the best bat on our bench, by far.

SMcGavin
08-13-2008, 12:05 PM
Forget the bench, with our current lineup he should start in LF and hit fifth. I don't think his MLB numbers are a fluke at all, considering he had a 1.189 OPS his last year of college.

camisadelgolf
08-14-2008, 03:31 AM
The 25-year-old Edwin Encarnacion is one of the longest-tenured Reds and the third-longest-tenured Red on offense, just barely behind Ryan Freel (2003) and Javier Valentin (2004). Javy probably won't be back in 2009, and Freel's contract is over after next year. Maybe EE will be the team captain and face of the franchise in 2010. :D

Ron Madden
08-14-2008, 04:09 AM
Maybe EE will be the team captain and face of the franchise in 2010. :D

Don't count on it.

Now that Adam Dunn is gone the target is now on Edwins back. Marty has already proclaimed EE a failure at 3B and as a RH bat in the middle of the lineup. Like always the local media and fanbase will follow suit, Edwin will be blamed for all the sins of this organization.

reds44
08-14-2008, 04:21 AM
There is no doubt that the next player on the fans and media hitlist is Edwin Encarnacion.

camisadelgolf
08-14-2008, 05:19 AM
I don't know . . . Fans might latch onto the Brandon-Phillips-showing-up-the-other-team thing. And Bronson Arroyo already has a target on his back with his rock star image that will only get bigger as his salary grows. EE is still young, and as long as he stays average, he might be protected.

nate
08-14-2008, 09:41 AM
I don't know . . . Fans might latch onto the Brandon-Phillips-showing-up-the-other-team thing. And Bronson Arroyo already has a target on his back with his rock star image that will only get bigger as his salary grows. EE is still young, and as long as he stays average, he might be protected.

I'm putting my money on Jay Bruce.

And smiles.

KronoRed
08-14-2008, 02:35 PM
There is no doubt that the next player on the fans and media hitlist is Edwin Encarnacion.

He's already been getting shots for awhile.

I think Phillips escapes the fans wrath, Jay Bruce though..he better win ther triple crown ;)

RedlegJake
08-14-2008, 02:44 PM
Not sure EE is considered good enough to be the next target. Bruce is more likely. Already has to win multiple MVPs and lead the Reds to back-to-back-to back WS to live up to the hype. Fans love to abuse their best player.

Will M
08-14-2008, 06:52 PM
Don't count on it.

Now that Adam Dunn is gone the target is now on Edwins back. Marty has already proclaimed EE a failure at 3B and as a RH bat in the middle of the lineup. Like always the local media and fanbase will follow suit, Edwin will be blamed for all the sins of this organization.

well he is a failure at 3B and hasn't hit well in the middle of the lineup. I would move him to LF and hope the removal of the anxiety/stress of his defense helps him hit better. if not then he won't be here in a couple of years.

camisadelgolf
08-15-2008, 02:38 AM
well he is a failure at 3B and hasn't hit well in the middle of the lineup. I would move him to LF and hope the removal of the anxiety/stress of his defense helps him hit better. if not then he won't be here in a couple of years.

What do you mean by 'hasn't hit well'? He has hit significantly better (.819 OPS) than most Major League third basemen (.742 OPS) this year and has produced as one of the best number-six hitters in baseball and as a decent number-five option.

The thing I love about EE, other than his ability to hit with runners on base, is that he's one of those guys who doesn't need a lot of protection in the lineup for him to produce. And if he shoudl receive more at-bats, because he's right-handed, he could be the perfect guy to break up Joey Votto and Jay Bruce in the lineup.

Will M
08-15-2008, 12:12 PM
What do you mean by 'hasn't hit well'? He has hit significantly better (.819 OPS) than most Major League third basemen (.742 OPS) this year and has produced as one of the best number-six hitters in baseball and as a decent number-five option.

The thing I love about EE, other than his ability to hit with runners on base, is that he's one of those guys who doesn't need a lot of protection in the lineup for him to produce. And if he shoudl receive more at-bats, because he's right-handed, he could be the perfect guy to break up Joey Votto and Jay Bruce in the lineup.

what i mean is that he hasn't hit well enough of consistent enough to be a cleanup hitter. i disagree that he is a good enough hitter to be the guy to hit 4th between Bruce and Votto. he could hit 4th on a team that wins 75 games but not on a team that wants to make the playoffs

Spring~Fields
08-15-2008, 02:27 PM
what i mean is that he hasn't hit well enough of consistent enough to be a cleanup hitter. i disagree that he is a good enough hitter to be the guy to hit 4th between Bruce and Votto. he could hit 4th on a team that wins 75 games but not on a team that wants to make the playoffs

What about in a comparison between Phillips who is the cleanup batter now and Encarncion?



Three year (2005-2007)
By Batting Order AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB AVG OBP SLG OPS
Encarncion Batting #4 185 30 53 16 0 10 32 18 .286 .373 .535 .908
B.Phillips Batting #4 339 56 104 14 2 15 52 20 .307 .352 .493 .845

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=5904&type=batting3
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=5031&type=batting3

What about either of them against right handed pitching?


Three year (2005-2007)
By Batting Order AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB AVG OBP SLG OPS
Encarncion vs. Right 786 110 218 51 1 28 126 53 .277 .340 .452 .792
B.Phillips vs. Right 847 119 223 41 6 28 121 44 .263 .310 .425 .735
C.Patterson vs. Right 994 140 260 46 7 27 92 50 .262 .300 .403 .703

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=5904&type=batting3
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=5031&type=batting3
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=4239&type=batting3



Three year (2005-2007)
AVG OBP SLG OPS
Dunn .248 .379 .527 .906
Batting #4 .231 .354 .494 .848

Ken Griffey .278 .355 .520 .875
Batting #4 .281 .366 .565 .931

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=4808&type=batting3
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=2148&type=batting3

Will M
08-15-2008, 04:29 PM
I never said Phillips was a #4 hitter. I have stated in the past Phillips should hit high up in the order vs lhp but 6th or 7th vs RHP.

IMO if the Reds want to retrun to the post season in a couple of years they must find a big RH slugger to hit 4th. Bruce hits 3rd. Votto 2nd or 5th.
Neither EE nor Phillips is the cleanup hitter we need.

Spring~Fields
08-15-2008, 06:15 PM
Neither EE nor Phillips is the cleanup hitter we need.

I agree especially against right handed pitching where they get the most of their PA/AB from, though I think that EE is better in that slot than Phillips.