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MasonBuzz3
08-11-2008, 03:28 PM
http://www.ktar.com/sports/?nid=22&sid=930425

MrCinatit
08-11-2008, 03:29 PM
Um....wow...


I honestly am speechless. Anybody know anything about this Dallas Buck guy?

RedLegSuperStar
08-11-2008, 03:30 PM
wonder who the other 2 prospects are..

KronoRed
08-11-2008, 03:31 PM
Hilarious.

Let the WINNING begin, I read it on the sundeck.

redsmetz
08-11-2008, 03:31 PM
Despite all the vitriol that he got on this board at times, I think we will rue this day. What a shame.

kaldaniels
08-11-2008, 03:32 PM
Get your posts in fast before the server meltsdown. :D

cumberlandreds
08-11-2008, 03:32 PM
Wow! I think it's safe to say the Reds are now officially in a total rebuild mode.

lollipopcurve
08-11-2008, 03:32 PM
Good luck, big guy.

Time for a new team, all around.

RedLegSuperStar
08-11-2008, 03:33 PM
Um....wow...


I honestly am speechless. Anybody know anything about this Dallas Buck guy?

he's pitching in single A.. Visalia Oaks

Always Red
08-11-2008, 03:33 PM
This is a sad day in Reds baseball history.

sonny
08-11-2008, 03:33 PM
WHAT!?

This is quite a suprise indeed. Half of this board will implode.

Matt700wlw
08-11-2008, 03:33 PM
I'm all discombobulated now.

KronoRed
08-11-2008, 03:34 PM
Good luck to Adam, he desevres a lot better then he got in this town.

If this is true of course...some Arizona radio station? that like guy at bar who knows a guy? ;)

MrCinatit
08-11-2008, 03:34 PM
Despite all the vitriol that he got on this board at times, I think we will rue this day. What a shame.

I hate to say this, but I agree. Unless the players to be named later are whoppers, this has the signs of a pure and simple salary dump.

On the other hand, Dunn will be pulling in a lot next year - a lot. A lot more than Griffey had - and if the bidding gets passionate enough, he could even near Giambi-type numbers. I am not sure that a ball club like the Reds would have been able to afford him and put up winning numbers.
And that, in more ways than one, is a tragedy.

Sea Ray
08-11-2008, 03:34 PM
Why isn't this a sticky?

kaldaniels
08-11-2008, 03:35 PM
Why isn't this a sticky?

Its 6 minutes old.

MrCinatit
08-11-2008, 03:35 PM
he's pitching in single A.. Visalia Oaks

Yeah, I took a look. To be honest, I was kind of under impressed. 23 seems a bit old for A, the ERA and WHIP were not really impressive.

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 03:36 PM
WHAT?!?!?!

The Reds better be getting a big return.

Matt700wlw
08-11-2008, 03:36 PM
We have confirmation that it is a true report....

Patrick Bateman
08-11-2008, 03:37 PM
Unless Scherzer is in the return, I'm not going to be particularly happy.

sonny
08-11-2008, 03:37 PM
WHAT?!?!?!

The Reds better be getting a big return.


Time to change your signature OBM

Matt700wlw
08-11-2008, 03:37 PM
Dallas Buck is a name I'm hearing...not sure on the other guys.

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 03:37 PM
Wow. Buck is pretty highly rated and an extreme groundball pitcher ....but an A ball prospect? The players to be named later better be AAA and tremendous. I am incredulous. Speechless.

Walt seems to be leaning toward pitchers who will fare decently in GAB. Groundball tendencies. I hope. About time the GM noticed how that might help a pitcher here.

Wonder if the quality of the PTBNL are contingent on Dunn re-upping with Az?

Dallas Buck??? Again. I'm speechless. Dallas freakin' Buck??

redsfan30
08-11-2008, 03:37 PM
I have been in the middle on Dunn for the last five years. I don't think he's nearly as bad as half make him out to be, but on the other hand I don't think he's nearly as good as the other half makes him out to be.

But with that being said, I am COMPLETELY shocked at this.

I fully expected him to be signed to a long term deal.

RedLegSuperStar
08-11-2008, 03:38 PM
start chanting Dallas Buck!

cincrazy
08-11-2008, 03:38 PM
WOW. Stunned

jmcclain19
08-11-2008, 03:38 PM
It's all over the news here in AZ.

Dallas Buck - he of the complete loss of velocity in his senior year at OSU?

Meh....not exactly exciting news.

sonny
08-11-2008, 03:39 PM
Watch the Reds to score 7 runs a game and finish with 80 wins. Just you watch.

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 03:39 PM
Unless Scherzer is in the return, I'm not going to be particularly happy.

Exactly.

Patrick Bateman
08-11-2008, 03:40 PM
FYI, Buck was very good in high-A last year, then had Tommy John surgery in the offseason. As of now, he's in Low-A, and his stuff isn't back yet. His K's are the suck. Last year, it looked like he was developing quite nicely, but he's been a different pitcher to start the year (not surprising afetr major surgery).

EDIT: He's actually been bumped up to High A despite the rough start to the year.

RedsFan75
08-11-2008, 03:40 PM
How did he clear waivers?

KronoRed
08-11-2008, 03:40 PM
Watch the Reds to score 7 runs a game and finish with 80 wins. Just you watch.

They better not lose again, I read on this here board 5000 times that Dunn and JR were what was wrong with the team, undefeated from now on:cool:

RedLegSuperStar
08-11-2008, 03:40 PM
question was it worth losing the draft picks?

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 03:41 PM
It's all over the news here in AZ.

Dallas Buck - he of the complete loss of velocity in his senior year at OSU?

Meh....not exactly exciting news.

His velocity is back. He throws a heavy sinking fb with extreme groundball tendencies. Some comps to Webb on the D'Backs forums in earlier threads there about their prospects. A ball is a long way from the majors and Webb though. It's like comparing Lotzkar to Rijo.

An edited note: He's had a tough year due to a TJ surgery last winter and probably isn't fully back but he's supposedly throwing very well despite being a bit under strength.

Roy Tucker
08-11-2008, 03:41 PM
So that means Dunn made it through waivers?

Wow.

cumberlandreds
08-11-2008, 03:42 PM
So that means Dunn made it through waivers?

Wow.

I don't think Dunn's value around the league is what many on this board think it is.

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 03:42 PM
This is a sad, sad day for me. I'll miss Dunner.

RedLegSuperStar
08-11-2008, 03:43 PM
Deal Not Dunn!!


1:41pm: Ken Rosenthal does not agree with Gambadoro's report. Rosenthal says the D'Backs won a waiver claim on Dunn but could not complete a deal before the window expired today.

traderumor
08-11-2008, 03:43 PM
Just coming over here to see if anything exciting was going on. I guess not. Another ho hum off day ;)

Interested to see the deal in its entirety.

Patrick Bateman
08-11-2008, 03:44 PM
So that means Dunn made it through waivers?

Wow.

It means he at least made it to the D-Backs. I don't think he even sniffed the AL teams. It's fairly common for non-contending teams to pass on free agents to be like this because they would have no use for him/no chance to work out a sensible trade.

rotnoid
08-11-2008, 03:44 PM
incredible. best of luck Dunner. We'll miss you more than some realize.

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 03:44 PM
Deal Not Dunn!!

Man, I hope. The return really was underwhelming.

NDRed
08-11-2008, 03:44 PM
This stinks!

The Reds are going to really struggle to score runs in the future. The youngsters better develop power and fast.

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 03:45 PM
Jarrod Parker better be one of the prospects.

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 03:45 PM
Sounds like the radio station guy tried to get a jump on the competition. Now I'll just have to wait for a confirmation one way or the other.

MrCinatit
08-11-2008, 03:46 PM
Deal Not Dunn!!

According to a link on SunDeck, the deal went through

RedLegSuperStar
08-11-2008, 03:46 PM
Update yet again:


1:45pm: MLB.com's Steve Gilbert says the D'Backs are "close to working out a deal" for Dunn for a minor league pitcher and two players to be named later.

edabbs44
08-11-2008, 03:46 PM
Dallas Buck was actually touted as a potential #1 overall pick before his senior season, IIRC. Then he had some elbow probs.

Danny Serafini
08-11-2008, 03:46 PM
The Reds website says Arizona claimed Dunn and the teams are working on a trade. Story came up a few minutes ago.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080811&content_id=3291023&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 03:47 PM
ESPN confirms the trade for three prospects.

*BaseClogger*
08-11-2008, 03:47 PM
This guy sounds like Daryl Thompson II...

KoryMac5
08-11-2008, 03:47 PM
If this deal indeed does happen and all we get for Dunn is an A ball pitcher and filler I will be leading the charge for Walt's head.

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 03:48 PM
Dallas Buck was actually touted as a potential #1 overall pick before his senior season, IIRC. Then he had some elbow probs.

Actually I'm high on Buck in Cincinnati - he's the "type" of pitcher that should succeed here but still...A ball is a long, long way from GAB.

George Anderson
08-11-2008, 03:48 PM
Jarrod Parker better be one of the prospects.

I saw Parker first hand while umpiring one of his game last year.

He is nnnaaasssttyyyyy !!!

nate
08-11-2008, 03:48 PM
Wow.

edabbs44
08-11-2008, 03:48 PM
If this deal indeed does happen and all we get for Dunn is an A ball pitcher and filler I will be leading the charge for Walt's head.

PTBNLs aren't always "filler".

edabbs44
08-11-2008, 03:49 PM
Actually I'm high on Buck in Cincinnati - he's the "type" of pitcher that should succeed here but still...A ball is a long, long way from GAB.

Absolutely.

Matt700wlw
08-11-2008, 03:49 PM
This is waaaaaay too much excitement for a Monday...I'm worn out :)

*BaseClogger*
08-11-2008, 03:49 PM
Is the return any better than the draft picks?

traderumor
08-11-2008, 03:49 PM
If this deal indeed does happen and all we get for Dunn is an A ball pitcher and filler I will be leading the charge for Walt's head.I'm sure your posting nastygrams on RZ will have a huge impact ;)

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 03:50 PM
I'd guess the PTBNL may be linked to time expiring and the teams felt they could work out something, somehow. Or, tied to Dunn re-signing, or some kind of choice list the Reds want to examine more thoroughly, scouts visit, etc. Likely the last.

NC Reds
08-11-2008, 03:50 PM
This absolutely stinks.

This franchise may be the worst in baseball. Dunn stated earlier in the season he would be willing to re-sign with the team, yet the franchise shows no interest in return.

What a joke.

KoryMac5
08-11-2008, 03:50 PM
PTBNLs aren't always "filler".

Key words in the phrase aren't always. When all is said and Dunn we will remember this moment as "The Trade".

Roy Tucker
08-11-2008, 03:50 PM
1:47pm: Rosenthal has changed his report. It now says a deal was consummated just before the window expired. Dunn is a Diamondback.

1:45pm: MLB.com's Steve Gilbert says the D'Backs are "close to working out a deal" for Dunn for a minor league pitcher and two players to be named later.

1:41pm: Ken Rosenthal does not agree with Gambadoro's report. Rosenthal says the D'Backs won a waiver claim on Dunn but could not complete a deal before the window expired today.

1:27pm: John Gambadoro of Arizona radio station KTAR 620 reports that the Diamondbacks have acquired outfielder Adam Dunn for three prospects, including pitcher Dallas Buck. Right field is a poor match for Dunn, but this is still an excellent move by Josh Byrnes. Dunn didn't really make sense for the eight NL teams with a better waiver position than Arizona.

Dunn isn't the ideal fit for Arizona, given the strikeouts and defense. But a .900 OPS more than balances out his flaws.

Ltlabner
08-11-2008, 03:51 PM
Wait a sec, I thought they didn't make any moves at the deadline because they wanted to win as many games as possible with the players they had?

CTA513
08-11-2008, 03:51 PM
Have they said what position Dunn will play?
The Diamondbacks moved Jackson to the outfield a little while ago, so Im guessing he would move back to 1st so Dunn could play left.

nate
08-11-2008, 03:52 PM
MLBTR said Dunn would play RF.

Yes, RF.

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 03:52 PM
Wait a sec, I thought they didn't make any moves at the deadline because they wanted to win as many games as possible with the players they had?

I think the latest run kinda sunk that idea. I don't believe that Walt privately believed it anyway.

Ltlabner
08-11-2008, 03:52 PM
Well it all depends on the return (duh) but this is a sad day. I had hoped for a reasonable LTC with the big guy.

Patrick Bateman
08-11-2008, 03:52 PM
Buck is pretty interesting... as he should recover fully from TJ given time. He does have real meaningful ground ball rates (however, he still gave up a decent amount of homers last year), and the rest of his arsenal was interesting last year. At full strength, he's the type of guy that can start next year at AA, and be put on the fast track. Still, he has to get fully healthy first, but he's pretty interesting.

nate
08-11-2008, 03:53 PM
I wonder what the rest of the return is.

RichRed
08-11-2008, 03:53 PM
This blows. Wish I had something more eloquent to say than that.

Krusty
08-11-2008, 03:53 PM
If you can't win with them, you can lose without them.

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 03:53 PM
Buck is pretty interesting... as he should recover fully from TJ given time. He does have real meaningful ground ball rates, and the rest of his arsenal was interesting last year. At full strength, he's the type of guy that can start next year at AA, and be put on the fast track. Still, he has to get fully healthy first, but he's pretty interesting.

My feeling is Buck is a great guy to take a flier on in a trade like this but the other two guys need to be very good players, too, or else the trade is a bomb.

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 03:54 PM
Buck is pretty interesting... as he should recover fully from TJ given time. He does have real meaningful ground ball rates, and the rest of his arsenal was interesting last year. At full strength, he's the type of guy that can start next year at AA, and be put on the fast track. Still, he has to get fully healthy first, but he's pretty interesting.

I agree. Buck could be pretty good but I still want another top prospect in return, someone like a Jarrod Parker.

nate
08-11-2008, 03:55 PM
I guess this is Walt's "the trade."

NC Reds
08-11-2008, 03:55 PM
I could see this franchise losing 100 games next year.

top6
08-11-2008, 03:55 PM
Wait a sec, I thought they didn't make any moves at the deadline because they wanted to win as many games as possible with the players they had?

Apparently, the powers that be on the Reds are so stupid, they originally thought they could win but now, since the All Star Break, they have realized they cannot.

Honestly, this is simply the worst-run sports team I have ever rooted for. I would prefer the Bengals of the '90s. At least they had a plan: spend as little money as possible. I have no idea what the Reds are trying to accomplish.

edabbs44
08-11-2008, 03:55 PM
Dallas Buck's draft bio from BA:


1. Dallas Buck, rhp (National rank: 48)
School: Oregon State. Class: Jr.
Hometown: Newberg, Ore.
B-T: R-R. Ht.: 6-3. Wt.: 210. Birthdate: 11/11/84.
Scouting Report: No pitcher elicits more head-scratches in the West than Buck, who has gone from hard-throwing bad boy to soft-tossing, innings-eating warrior. A former special-teams player for Oregon State's football team, Buck is one of the draft's better athletes, and his athletic ability and competitiveness have helped him pitch through a dead-arm period that has sapped his velocity. While Buck won his first nine decisions for the Pacific-10 Conference-leading Beavers, his fastball registered in the 82-87 mph range after sitting around 89-91 mph last season and touching 94. A mid-April MRI showed a sprain of his ulnar collateral ligament, with no tear. He had three solid starts with improved velocity thereafter, but slid back in mid-May to the mid-80s. Without his velocity, Buck has relied on adding sink to his fastball, spotting it better and outwitting hitters with his slider and changeup, both average pitches. While his mound demeanor has turned off scouts in the past, his willingness to compete without his best stuff has offset many makeup concerns. If his velocity returns, Buck should be better than ever, having learned to pitch in its absence.

KoryMac5
08-11-2008, 03:55 PM
I wonder if Cast is still in "win now" mode, I would have to imagine he gave his ok for this trade to happen. Seats were not being filled as it was, with Dunn and Jr gone GABP will be a ghost town.

Ltlabner
08-11-2008, 03:55 PM
So who starts in left tonight? Colbrera with Bruce in RF?

cumberlandreds
08-11-2008, 03:55 PM
The question will be whether the Reds got two number one worthy players in return. Essentially they gave up two number one picks by trading Dunn and not letting him walk.

edabbs44
08-11-2008, 03:56 PM
Wait a sec, I thought they didn't make any moves at the deadline because they wanted to win as many games as possible with the players they had?

Yeah, kind of a headscratcher to say the least.

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 03:56 PM
I wouldn't mind getting Micah Owings as one of throw ins.

cumberlandreds
08-11-2008, 03:56 PM
So who starts in left tonight? Colbrera with Bruce in RF?

No one. They don't play tonight. :D

princeton
08-11-2008, 03:56 PM
my guess is that PTBNLs are likely on 40 man roster, and Reds will wait for them to clear waivers.

link to Dbacks 40 man:

http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=ari

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 03:56 PM
So who starts in left tonight? Colbrera with Bruce in RF?

The Reds are off tonight but the smart thing would be to callup Chris Dickerson...

Blitz Dorsey
08-11-2008, 03:57 PM
I will second (or maybe third, fourth, 10th) what others have said... Max Scherzer better be in this deal. Otherwise, I don't like it one bit.

Just kills me that we finally traded Dunn and we don't even know exactly what we're getting back. I also wonder if they were close to a deal before the trading "deadline" (too bad all deadlines aren't this loose) or if this just popped up this week. I have to think they had discussions about this before today/yesterday.

And let me repeat: Scherzer better be in this deal!

Patrick Bateman
08-11-2008, 03:57 PM
I agree. Buck could be pretty good but I still want another top prospect in return, someone like a Jarrod Parker.

Abolsutely. He's a interesting second piece, but as the primary return? Hell no. He profiles more as a mid rotation guy, and his stuff hasn't come all the way back yet. The track record with TJ is very good nowadays, but I'd feel very uneasy about a guy fresh off surgery as the primary haul, even as successful as it is.

edabbs44
08-11-2008, 03:57 PM
I could see this franchise losing 100 games next year.

No problems with that as long as we can see them winning 90 a few years from now.

Cyclone792
08-11-2008, 03:57 PM
Sad to see Dunn go. I can't wait to see the Reds start "winning" with a Padres-like offense.

Good luck, Dunn. I hope he blasts 15 home runs the rest of the season and drops a couple 1.000 OPS seasons on MLB the next few years. The Reds will deserve it.

Roy Tucker
08-11-2008, 03:57 PM
So who the heck is going to play the OF for the rest of 2008?

Ltlabner
08-11-2008, 03:57 PM
soft-tossing, innings-eating warrior.

Not exactly the kind of write up I'd hoped to hear regarding the cornerstone of a deal for Dunn.

News on the other two guys? How about now? Now? How about now?

TeamBoone
08-11-2008, 03:57 PM
Makes me sick to my stomach. A few goosebumps too (and not in a good way).

Ron Madden
08-11-2008, 03:57 PM
I'm afraid Walt Joketty has made a huge mistake.

I'm very disappointed.

:(

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 03:57 PM
I could see this franchise losing 100 games next year.

I'm not ready to proclaim that yet. Walt has a winter ahead of him to rebuild thngs, a lot of FAs that he can dump, another slot open by cutting Ross. Jocketty can say what he wants publicly this is going to be a rebuild job. And he might just get it done quicker than anyone thinks.

*BaseClogger*
08-11-2008, 03:58 PM
Guys, we weren't gonna get much of a return for a month and a half for Dunn, but why didn't Walt just take the picks if he is gonna get 2 PTBNL?

cumberlandreds
08-11-2008, 03:58 PM
my guess is that PTBNLs are likely on 40 man roster, and Reds will wait for them to clear waivers.

link to Dbacks 40 man:

http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=ari

Hey! I see Coutlangus on their roster. Maybe he makes a Reds return. :)

cincrazy
08-11-2008, 03:58 PM
People whine, and whine, and whine that the Reds don't rebuild, they go into every year trying to unrealistically win, etc. etc. etc. Now they're TRYING to rebuild, and taking the necessary steps to do that, and people complain again. Walt's in a lose-lose situation.

KronoRed
08-11-2008, 03:58 PM
I don't think Dunn's value around the league is what many on this board think it is.

Sad that a lot of GM's around baseball are stuck in the wrong mind set.

RedsBaron
08-11-2008, 03:58 PM
They better not lose again, I read on this here board 5000 times that Dunn and JR were what was wrong with the team, undefeated from now on:cool:

Based on some of the posts I've read, I now assume the Reds will go 43-0 the rest of the way. Post-season, here we come! ;)

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 03:58 PM
Makes me sick to my stomach. A few goosebumps too (and not in a good way).

I feel just the opposite. Its makes me nervous and excited in a good way.

traderumor
08-11-2008, 03:58 PM
For all those looking for a tear down for lo these many years, the wrecking ball has just hit the old cornerstone.

nate
08-11-2008, 03:59 PM
I will second (or maybe third, fourth, 10th) what others have said... Max Scherzer better be in this deal. Otherwise, I don't like it one bit.

Just kills me that we finally traded Dunn and we don't even know exactly what we're getting back. I also wonder if they were close to a deal before the trading "deadline" (too bad all deadlines aren't this loose) or if this just popped up this week. I have to think they had discussions about this before today/yesterday.

And let me repeat: Scherzer better be in this deal!

I don't know if that's likely.

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 03:59 PM
At least one of these guys have to be in the deal for it to be considered a decent return: Max Scherzer, Micah Owings, Jarrod Parker, or Miguel Montero.

Patrick Bateman
08-11-2008, 03:59 PM
Dallas Buck's draft bio from BA:

That's pretty interesting. Apparently the TJ surgery was long overdue. It's possible he hasn't been pitching at full strength since college. If that's the case, his upside coud be conceivably higher than middle of the rotation. A wildcard of sorts.

KronoRed
08-11-2008, 03:59 PM
If it's a real tear down Phillips should be next.

RedsBaron
08-11-2008, 03:59 PM
Sad to see Dunn go. I can't wait to see the Reds start "winning" with a Padres-like offense.

Good luck, Dunn. I hope he blasts 15 home runs the rest of the season and drops a couple 1.000 OPS seasons on MLB the next few years. The Reds will deserve it.

Yep.
I wonder who the Reds fans and media will now blame if/when the Reds continue to lose?

cincrazy
08-11-2008, 04:00 PM
Adam Dunn would never get a Max Scherzer in any return. No way, no how.

NC Reds
08-11-2008, 04:01 PM
I wish Dunn nothing but the best. He's better than the podunk operation he was a part of these many years.

lollipopcurve
08-11-2008, 04:01 PM
Buck was very highly touted out of Oregon State -- a possible top 5 pick until his elbow started acting up. Now that he's had TJ surgery, he's on track to become a solid pitching prospect again. Very high GB rates. By himself he's probably better than the 2 picks, in my opinion. If the other two guys are borderline prospects (I'm hoping for one of Enright/Roemer), so much the better, but I figure the Reds weren't in a great spot to demand a lot here. I'm fine with turning the roster over, and young arms are the right target in any prospect deals the team can make.

KronoRed
08-11-2008, 04:01 PM
Yep.
I wonder who the Reds fans and media will now blame if/when the Reds continue to lose?

Step right up Jay Bruce, you're next on "you better never fail cause OMG we are tHE rEDZ!"

Tom Servo
08-11-2008, 04:01 PM
I'm afraid Walt Joketty has made a huge mistake.

I'm very disappointed.

:(
Co-signed.


Dunner was my favorite Red. Very sad to see him go.

Ltlabner
08-11-2008, 04:01 PM
I'm sorry....I missed it.

Are the other two guys PTBNL or are we just waiting on the details to come in?

edabbs44
08-11-2008, 04:02 PM
I wonder if they would have had the potential to get more in return for Dunn if they faced facts last year and realized that the team wasn't going anywhere anytime soon?

edabbs44
08-11-2008, 04:02 PM
I'm sorry....I missed it.

Are the other two guys PTBNL or are we just waiting on the details to come in?

I thought PTBNL.

Patrick Bateman
08-11-2008, 04:02 PM
Guys, we weren't gunna get much of a return for a month and a half for Dunn, but why didn't Walt just take the picks if he is gonna get 2 PTBNL?

As edabbs said earlier, PTBNL don't have to be junk/filler.... especially at this point. It likely signifies that they are on the 40 man, and wont neccessarily clear waivers (thus can't technically be traded right now). They could be basically anyone in the minors (Scherzer included).

Chris Reitsma could have been a PTBNL when we got him from Boston (as he was a post deadline trade for Bichette)... but I think teams let him clear because he was involved in a trade. He was considered a pretty interesting prospect at the time.

*BaseClogger*
08-11-2008, 04:02 PM
At least one of these guys have to be in the deal for it to be considered a decent return: Max Scherzer, Micah Owings, Jarrod Parker, or Miguel Montero.

Excellent point, I was really pulling for the Reds to pursue Monetero...

Matt700wlw
08-11-2008, 04:03 PM
...And here I thought it would be just your typical ease-back-in Monday at the office...

:)

rotnoid
08-11-2008, 04:03 PM
any FA's in the OF worth throwing money at this winter? I know the pitching market, but hadn't checked out OF so much. Never thought they'd not resign Dunner.

CTA513
08-11-2008, 04:04 PM
Good day for Dunn, he goes from a last place team to a first place team.

traderumor
08-11-2008, 04:04 PM
That's pretty interesting. Apparently the TJ surgery was long overdue. It's possible he hasn't been pitching at full strength since college. If that's the case, his upside coud be conceivably higher than middle of the rotation. A wildcard of sorts.A current Moneyball technique is targeting once highly regarded post TJers

Cyclone792
08-11-2008, 04:04 PM
Yep.
I wonder who the Reds fans and media will now blame if/when the Reds continue to lose?

Jay Bruce is stepping up.

One full season of 150+ strikeouts and he'll be the new devil.

Blitz Dorsey
08-11-2008, 04:04 PM
Adam Dunn would never get a Max Scherzer in any return. No way, no how.

Then why trade him? The draft picks would have been decent -- it's not like we had to trade him or get nothing for him at the end of the year. Worst case, we were going to get a couple draft picks. If Scherzer is not in the deal, I would have honestly preferred the draft picks.

nate
08-11-2008, 04:04 PM
Over/under on the Reds scoring 100 runs the rest of the season?

Hoosier Red
08-11-2008, 04:05 PM
The question will be whether the Reds got two number one worthy players in return. Essentially they gave up two number one picks by trading Dunn and not letting him walk.

Keep in mind though, they don't need to pay the bonuses on whatever players they acquire. If they got two draft picks next year, that's a lot of money they'd have to throw around on unproven talent.

Perhaps this way Walt gets to play with money on the major league side while continuing to keep the minor league system useful for help down the road.

nate
08-11-2008, 04:05 PM
I wonder if they would have had the potential to get more in return for Dunn if they faced facts last year and realized that the team wasn't going anywhere anytime soon?

I doubt it. Dunn's situation last year was pretty much the same as this year: a two-month rental.

rotnoid
08-11-2008, 04:06 PM
Then why trade him? The draft picks would have been decent -- it's not like we had to trade him or get nothing for him at the end of the year. Worst case, we were going to get a couple draft picks. If Scherzer is not in the deal, I would have honestly preferred the draft picks.
signability? with the slotting the way it is, high picks are getting harder and harder to sign. I don't agree that that should be how an organization is run, just throwing things agains the wall hoping they stick. I'm still stunned.

RichRed
08-11-2008, 04:06 PM
Good day for Dunn, he goes from a last place team to a first place team.

Here's hoping for a White Sox-D'backs World Series.

Caveat Emperor
08-11-2008, 04:06 PM
Put me on the record at 3:08 PM 8/11/08 - I'd rather have the draft picks.

See ya, Dunner. Give Cincinnati and it's baseball "fans" the finger on your way out of town for all of us that still appreciate good ballplayers.

Kc61
08-11-2008, 04:06 PM
This was inevitable. The only choice the Reds had was to offer arbitration and get two draft choices. Given how expensive (and unpredictable) high draft choices are, I can understand why the Reds preferred to go this route.

IMO, you can't look at this move in a vacuum. For the first time since the Griffey trade, the Reds are fundamentally changing their team. The Dunn/Griffey days are over and we won't be able to judge the outcome for a few years.

Anyone who trashes the Reds for this must remember that Dunn was free in about 7 weeks. The Indians traded Sabathia. The Braves traded Texiera. That's the way it goes.

Blitz Dorsey
08-11-2008, 04:06 PM
At least one of these guys have to be in the deal for it to be considered a decent return: Max Scherzer, Micah Owings, Jarrod Parker, or Miguel Montero.

Well, if Owings is in the deal, that will help make up for some of the HRs we're losing. However, not sure if it will help the pitching staff too much.

*BaseClogger*
08-11-2008, 04:06 PM
As edabbs said earlier, PTBNL don't have to be junk/filler.... especially at this point. It likely signifies that they are on the 40 man, and wont neccessarily clear waivers (thus can't technically be traded right now). They could be basically anyone in the minors (Scherzer included).

Chris Reitsma could have been a PTBNL when we got him from Boston (as he was a post deadline trade for Bichette)... but I think teams let him clear because he was involved in a trade. He was considered a pretty interesting prospect at the time.

Come on, Scherzer won't be in this deal. I guess we will just have to wait and see if the other guys that make up the return have more value than the picks...

edabbs44
08-11-2008, 04:06 PM
Keep in mind though, they don't need to pay the bonuses on whatever players they acquire. If they got two draft picks next year, that's a lot of money they'd have to throw around on unproven talent.

Perhaps this way Walt gets to play with money on the major league side while continuing to keep the minor league system useful for help down the road.

Good point.

Ltlabner
08-11-2008, 04:06 PM
On the bright side, now they don't have to hire movers to take out the clubhouse couch.

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 04:07 PM
PTBNL are usually minor leaguers because they MUST change leagues. So it will be a 2 guys in the minors now. PTBNL are NOT always filler. David Ortiz, Jeremy Bonderman, Coco Crisp et al, have all been PTBNL just to name a few. Deals of this magnitude, with a player of Dunn's caliber, usually aren't involved in deals where PTBNL are a significant part of the deal. Usually they're back end filler to "pad" the deal a bit. This is pretty much unusual and I'd expect the DBacks gave the Reds a list of players. The Reds can choose after they scout the players more exhaustively. Losing as they are and going nowhere, why should the Reds be in any hurry to make their choices if it is indeed a list of choices? Is it better than two draft picks? I'd say yes depending on who else comes back. Three guys with a jump start and a resume are better than 2 blind picks. Buck is a good start but the other two need to be solid.

KronoRed
08-11-2008, 04:07 PM
I doubt it. Dunn's situation last year was pretty much the same as this year: a two-month rental.

Yep, all Walt did today was grad 3 maybes instead of the two we could have gotten in the draft when he left town after the season.

Patrick Bateman
08-11-2008, 04:07 PM
Put me on the record at 3:08 PM 8/11/08 - I'd rather have the draft picks.


You don't even know what we got yet?

cincrazy
08-11-2008, 04:07 PM
Then why trade him? The draft picks would have been decent -- it's not like we had to trade him or get nothing for him at the end of the year. Worst case, we were going to get a couple draft picks. If Scherzer is not in the deal, I would have honestly preferred the draft picks.

You make a fair point. I was just commenting that there's no way Dunn gets a player of that caliber in return, especially as a 2 month rental.

Also, we don't know what Walt's plans are for the offseason. I have a feeling a free agent or two will be coming to Cincy.

oregonred
08-11-2008, 04:08 PM
Does this mean the Dodgers, Rangers and Tigers passed on Dunn? They might be considered the remote WC contenders with LA in contention for the NL West. Maybe even Houston to get an edge on FA next year or maybe even Oakland just to get the draft picks. I can't believe how low Dunn's value is perceived by most GMs.

Big coup for AZ being in the crappiest division and getting the advantage over all the other 12 serious playoff contender

I can't see how the return on Aug 11th could be better then late July. The idiotic .500 mantra in '08 from ownership appears to have once again set this rudderless franchise back in time...

indy_dave00
08-11-2008, 04:08 PM
Any chance the slashing of Dunn's salary frees money up to sign Yonder Alonso by Friday's deadline???

Chip R
08-11-2008, 04:08 PM
Over/under on the Reds scoring 100 runs the rest of the season?


Under.

Hoosier Red
08-11-2008, 04:08 PM
Good point.


Woo hoo, 8 years in and I finally make one!

nate
08-11-2008, 04:09 PM
Woo hoo, 8 years in and I finally make one!

Heh!

Patrick Bateman
08-11-2008, 04:09 PM
Come on, Scherzer won't be in this deal. I guess we will just have to wait and see if the other guys that make up the return have more value than the picks...

I'm not saying he is, I'm saying that the PTBNL restriction does not neccessarily mean "crappy prospect". It just means it could be any prospect that needs to clear waivers. That could mean Scherzer... or it could mean Bozo the Clown. I don't have the slightest idea. In this case, the PTBNL could conceivably be the main return... but they didn't clear waivers.

VR
08-11-2008, 04:10 PM
Based on the Reds superior scouting and talent evaluation....it wouldn't surprise me to find out the Dback's sent over Buck's scouting report from OSU touting him as a top 5 pick, and the Reds bit.

To be honest....the identity of the Reds organization is hinging on the two PTBNL's in this deal. If they are quality....OK, there's some semblance of business acumen.

If they are garbage, along with Buck....we are destined to be the Los Angeles Clippers/ Detroit Lions of MLB.

KoryMac5
08-11-2008, 04:10 PM
Any chance the slashing of Dunn's salary frees money up to sign Yonder Alonso by Friday's deadline???

Good point, Votto has played some left field. Yonder maybe holding out for a major league deal.

Chip R
08-11-2008, 04:10 PM
Does this mean the Dodgers, Rangers and Tigers passed on Dunn?


Only the Dodgers.

RedsManRick
08-11-2008, 04:11 PM
Well boys and girls, it's going to be a very interesting offseason.

Big Klu
08-11-2008, 04:12 PM
People whine, and whine, and whine that the Reds don't rebuild, they go into every year trying to unrealistically win, etc. etc. etc. Now they're TRYING to rebuild, and taking the necessary steps to do that, and people complain again. Walt's in a lose-lose situation.

You can say that again. People complain that Jocketty is "doing nothing" and "just sitting on his hands" since he got the GM job. Then he makes a move, and the same people complain about the move he makes. Seems like folks here think that six weeks of Dunn should be worth three primo prospects. I like Adam Dunn as much as the next guy, but certainly appears that the rest of the baseball world does not hold Dunn in as high esteem as RedsZone does. And I hate to say it, but maybe they are right and we are wrong. Maybe we overvalue Dunn as much as we accuse others of undervaluing him. My preference would have been to resign him, but Walt has been at this for a lot of years--he didn't just fall off the turnip truck. Maybe he feels that Dunn doesn't fit his vision for the club, and this offer is better what he projects the draft picks to be. It is almost certainly better than any offer before the July 31 deadline--otherwise he would have continued to hold onto Dunn.

RedEye
08-11-2008, 04:12 PM
What is our starting OF now? Bruce-Patterson-Dickerson?

*BaseClogger*
08-11-2008, 04:12 PM
This is pretty much unusual and I'd expect the DBacks gave the Reds a list of players.

What I would give to see that list! :)

missionhockey21
08-11-2008, 04:12 PM
Any chance the slashing of Dunn's salary frees money up to sign Yonder Alonso by Friday's deadline???
That'd be a shame too, I'd rather try again at that slot next year versus give into Alonso's demands (he is not worth what he is demanding.)

Also put me down on record, 3:13 PM EST on 8/11/2008.... a day the Reds are going to end up regretting unless we're getting a Parker or a Schezer or someone of that caliber back which is highly doubtful.

If the return is less than the two draft picks, I think Walt is only going to confirm that he is a dinosaur. Now if the plan is to resign Dunn and thus the two picks wouldn't have even been an option.... THAT could be a different story.

rotnoid
08-11-2008, 04:13 PM
What is our starting OF now? Bruce-Patterson-Dickerson?
Probably. Doesn't Cabrera play some OF too?

Cyclone792
08-11-2008, 04:13 PM
What is our starting OF now? Bruce-Patterson-Dickerson?

I really hope Patterson plays every day. Because when I look back on the 2008 Reds, I want to tell people that I saw one of the worst players in baseball history get 400 plate appearances for a hapless franchise in the most hapless decade in that franchise's history.

Roy Tucker
08-11-2008, 04:13 PM
I guess you have to tear it down before you can build it up.

Jocketty will need to earn his keep in the off-season.

Reds have some serious holes. Hopefully, they have some cash to fill them.

New Fever
08-11-2008, 04:13 PM
Jarrod Parker, the first round pick of DBacks last year signed on Aug. 15, 2007 so he can't be traded yet, can he?

NC Reds
08-11-2008, 04:14 PM
Football can't get here quickly enough.

traderumor
08-11-2008, 04:14 PM
I think alot of this deal is predicated on the Dbacks intentions to extend Dunn. If they are looking to rent, the PTBNL will likely be named very soon. If it stays hanging, then it was contingent on the Dbacks extending Dunn.

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 04:15 PM
Jarrod Parker, the first round pick of DBacks last year signed on Aug. 15, 2007 so he can't be traded yet, can he?

Good point. He can't be traded until this Friday, August 15th.

nate
08-11-2008, 04:15 PM
As noted in the Sun Deck, the D-Backs were rumored to have been offering Chad Tracy for Dunn before the deadline. Not that it really makes any sense whatsoever, but that could be someone coming back to us.

Roy Tucker
08-11-2008, 04:15 PM
I predict Votto gets some starts in LF.

wheels
08-11-2008, 04:15 PM
This is the worst case scenario in regards to the Dunn saga.

Let's face it. It's Buck and chaff. I have no hope whatsoever that the PTBNL are going to be anything but dreck.

What a monstrously horrific franchise.

Caveat Emperor
08-11-2008, 04:15 PM
You don't even know what we got yet?

Doesn't matter -- the odds of one or both of the PTBNL being better than the type of player available to the Reds as compensation draft picks is slim to none.

oregonred
08-11-2008, 04:15 PM
Football can't get here quickly enough.

Earlier today, MSNBC was showing some exciting Badmitton action from Beijing. Time to dig out the old set from the parents attic and train the youngsters for Chicago 2016.

Matt700wlw
08-11-2008, 04:16 PM
Here's the offical release from the Reds:






REDS TRADE DUNN TO DIAMONDBACKS

Receive Three Players From Arizona


CINCINNATI - The Cincinnati Reds today acquired from the Arizona Diamondbacks RHP Dallas Buck and 2 players to be named later in exchange for OF Adam Dunn and cash.



Buck, 24, this season went 1-4 with a 3.94 ERA in 9 games and 8 starts with Class A South Bend. Last Monday he was promoted to High Class A Visalia and made one appearance, pitching 5.0 shutout innings Thursday vs San Jose. He will be assigned to Class A Sarasota.



Buck was selected by Arizona in the third round of the 2006 first-year player draft. He attended Oregon State University, where he was a member of the 2006 NCAA national championship team. He made his professional debut last season by going 4-4 with a 3.41 ERA in 16 starts with Visalia.



Dunn batted .233 with 32 home runs and 74 RBI in 114 games with the Reds.



The Reds have not announced who will replace Dunn on the 25-man roster.

dougdirt
08-11-2008, 04:16 PM
We aren't going to get Parker or Scherzer, so stop saying it. Adam Dunn isn't worth that type of return with his contract status. Not even close.

westofyou
08-11-2008, 04:16 PM
Paul wins the battle, now we can look forward to him scapegoating the next player who doesn't play by the rules that Daugherty deems important.

I'll miss Dunn, but he's gone and what happens next will at least be interesting, if not intriguing.

wolfboy
08-11-2008, 04:16 PM
I really hope Patterson plays every day. Because when I look back on the 2008 Reds, I want to tell people that I saw one of the worst players in baseball history get 400 plate appearances for a hapless franchise in the most hapless decade in that franchise's history.

I kind of agree. One day, Patterson will be emblematic of how bad things were during this lost decade (+?) of Reds baseball.

RedEye
08-11-2008, 04:16 PM
I guess you have to tear it down before you can build it up.

Jocketty will need to earn his keep in the off-season.

Reds have some serious holes. Hopefully, they have some cash to fill them.

Maybe Bavasi was just hired as a glorified gofer. You know, bring Walt hus lunch, file paperwork, etc. Jocketty's certainly going to need a lot of coffee this off-season, and a "special assistant" could really help him out that way.

Sea Ray
08-11-2008, 04:16 PM
Until we know who we're getting it's hard to comment on the wisdom of it

RedEye
08-11-2008, 04:18 PM
Paul wins the battle, now we can look forward to him scapegoating the next player who doesn't play by the rules that Daugherty deems important.

I'll miss Dunn, but he's gone and what happens next will at least be interesting, if not intriguing.

I wonder if "couch" was really an epithet for "Adam Dunn." Guess we'll see if there's another column next year about this time...

Ltlabner
08-11-2008, 04:18 PM
Paul wins the battle, now we can look forward to him scapegoating the next player who doesn't play by the rules that Daugherty deems important.

I'll miss Dunn, but he's gone and what happens next will at least be interesting, if not intriguing.

Couch 1: Dunn 0

wheels
08-11-2008, 04:18 PM
Until we know who we're getting it's hard to comment on the wisdom of it

We're getting no one.

Dougdirts gotta be happy about this one.

rotnoid
08-11-2008, 04:18 PM
We aren't going to get Parker or Scherzer, so stop saying it. Adam Dunn isn't worth that type of return with his contract status. Not even close.

Maybe not. If the Reds threw in some cash, as the release says, that may improve the quality of the return. I can't imagine they'd kick in cash for Buck and some filler. Esp for just 2 months of Dunn.

Az Red
08-11-2008, 04:19 PM
Pages are adding up faster than I can read...

Count me as selfish but if it's any team, I am glad it's Arizona! Reds fan first, D-Backs second.

MrCinatit
08-11-2008, 04:19 PM
The series on September 12, 13 and 14 could be quite interesting. Too bad it is not a home series.

Caveat Emperor
08-11-2008, 04:19 PM
Until we know who we're getting it's hard to comment on the wisdom of it

I'm not going to hold my breath that the PTBNLs are anything of value -- they are rarely better than scratch-off lottery tickets as far as prospects go.

Cyclone792
08-11-2008, 04:19 PM
The Cincinnati Reds today acquired from the Arizona Diamondbacks RHP Dallas Buck and 2 players to be named later in exchange for OF Adam Dunn and cash.

Edit: NM

traderumor
08-11-2008, 04:19 PM
Paul wins the battle, now we can look forward to him scapegoating the next player who doesn't play by the rules that Daugherty deems important.

I'll miss Dunn, but he's gone and what happens next will at least be interesting, if not intriguing.
Surely you do not think that Daugherty's article subliminally influenced the front office :confused:

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 04:19 PM
At least one of these guys have to be in the deal for it to be considered a decent return: Max Scherzer, Micah Owings, Jarrod Parker, or Miguel Montero.

It can't be Montero or Owings since they are with Az and the rule is that they must change leagues to be a PTBNL. Rule out anyone currently on the Arizona 25 man.

edabbs44
08-11-2008, 04:19 PM
Doesn't matter -- the odds of one or both of the PTBNL being better than the type of player available to the Reds as compensation draft picks is slim to none.

Comp picks aren't exactly gold.

Hoosier Red
08-11-2008, 04:20 PM
Except we're giving cash, not getting it. Which makes it pretty much the opposite of 2003.

oregonred
08-11-2008, 04:20 PM
Comp picks aren't exactly gold.

Especially the way this clueless franchise tends to draft.

RedEye
08-11-2008, 04:20 PM
Did we actually get LESS for Dunn than we did for Griffey? I never would have expected that.

rotnoid
08-11-2008, 04:21 PM
Never mind.

RedEye
08-11-2008, 04:21 PM
I mean, at least for Griffey we got a ML level pitcher...

cincrazy
08-11-2008, 04:21 PM
That'd be a shame too, I'd rather try again at that slot next year versus give into Alonso's demands (he is not worth what he is demanding.)

Also put me down on record, 3:13 PM EST on 8/11/2008.... a day the Reds are going to end up regretting unless we're getting a Parker or a Schezer or someone of that caliber back which is highly doubtful.

If the return is less than the two draft picks, I think Walt is only going to confirm that he is a dinosaur. Now if the plan is to resign Dunn and thus the two picks wouldn't have even been an option.... THAT could be a different story.

A dinosaur with a World Series ring from two seasons ago

nate
08-11-2008, 04:21 PM
Except we're giving cash, not getting it. Which makes it pretty much the opposite of 2003.

Ah...I misread that too.

GIVING cash AND Dunn?

I'm about to have a Fred Sanford moment.

dougdirt
08-11-2008, 04:21 PM
Maybe not. If the Reds threw in some cash, as the release says, that may improve the quality of the return. I can't imagine they'd kick in cash for Buck and some filler. Esp for just 2 months of Dunn.

I don't think they will get back filler, but they aren't going to get either one of their stud's either in Parker or Scherzer.

wheels
08-11-2008, 04:22 PM
When the first name mentioned has lost 5-7 mph off of his fastball (young Paul Wilson, anyone?), I'd hardly expect the players NOT mentioned to be anything of value.

Garbage. Garbage. Garbage.

*BaseClogger*
08-11-2008, 04:22 PM
Jocketty: Adam, we really want to re-sign you.

Dunn: And I want to re-sign and finish my career in Cincinnati, Walt.

Jocketty: But I need you to do a favor for this franchise first.

Dunn: Sure thing, anything for the Reds!

Jocketty: We are going to trade you to a contender so we can get some extra prospects. Heck, maybe you will even get to play in the playoffs. Then, when the season ends, you can re-sign and come back to Cincinnati.

Dunn: Great plan! Where am I going?

Jocketty: Arizona. We haven't had time to figure out which players we are getting in return because I have spent my whole afternoon formulating this plan with you.



My dream... :)

Ltlabner
08-11-2008, 04:22 PM
This is a good deal for the most productive Reds player of this horrific decade IF

....Buck's arm returns to health after TJ surgery

....Buck can make it from A to the big leagues

....the two prospects are of interest and not just scratch off tickets

....the amount of cash is significant enough to be used elsewhere

That's a whole lotta "ifs" for this deal to make more sense than inking a 4 year deal.

rotnoid
08-11-2008, 04:22 PM
I don't think they will get back filler, but they aren't going to get either one of their stud's either in Parker or Scherzer.
Yeah, after I re-read the page I realized that. But for me, know they threw in some money too makes the expectation much higher than the actual return might be. I'm setting up for a let down.

mbgrayson
08-11-2008, 04:23 PM
I told my sons about this, and my 12 year old said: "Are the Reds drunk!", and he couldn't beleive the Reds did this.

I will reserve judgment until we know the whole deal. But I think that there has to be some decent substance to the PTBNL. Otherwise, we gave up two months of Dunn and the two comp draft picks for one pitcher trying to recover from TJ surgery.

Dunn's final 2008 line as a Red:
.233/.373/.528 for an OPS of .901.
32 HRs, 74 RBIs, 58 runs scored, 80 BBs, and 120 Ks.

As to saying Dunn was not worth much, I disagree. Not many .900 OPS guys are avilable right now. All those teams close to making the playoffs would have wanted him. I think some of the talk was just to drive down his value.

George Anderson
08-11-2008, 04:24 PM
Marty is on WLW and is saying it is a great move.

lollipopcurve
08-11-2008, 04:24 PM
I'm thinking the PTBNLs will be borderline guys. Think Masset/Richar. My guess is Jocketty wants a hungry roster.

Ltlabner
08-11-2008, 04:24 PM
This is a good deal for the most productive Reds player of this horrific decade IF

....Buck's arm returns to health after TJ surgery

....Buck can make it from A to the big leagues

....the two prospects are of interest and not just scratch off tickets

....the amount of cash is significant enough to be used elsewhere

That's a whole lotta "ifs" for this deal to make more sense than inking a 4 year deal.

Holy bat-crap. I misread the press release. We traded Dunn AND cash?

I am at a loss for words.

westofyou
08-11-2008, 04:24 PM
Surely you do not think that Daugherty's article subliminally influenced the front office :confused:

Nah, I think Daugherty would a hard time influencing anyone with an 8 pack of Little Kings in them to take a leak much alone influence someone who actually understands baseball to make a move based on his opinion.

TeamBoone
08-11-2008, 04:25 PM
Regarding the official Reds release article, isn't this just a WONDERFUL tribute to Adam Dunn's history with the Reds, which is the only reference to him in the whole thing (except the intro paragraph, of course):


Dunn batted .233 with 32 home runs and 74 RBI in 114 games with the Reds.

Disgusting.

Ltlabner
08-11-2008, 04:25 PM
http://carolynbaker.net/site/images/train%20wreck.jpg

RedEye
08-11-2008, 04:25 PM
I'm thinking the PTBNLs will be borderline guys. Think Masset/Richar. My guess is Jocketty wants a hungry roster.

Could have just had them fast for a day. :confused:

wheels
08-11-2008, 04:25 PM
Holy bat-crap. I misread the press release. We traded Dunn AND cash?

I am at a loss for words.

They've gone totally bonkers.

Worst trade of my lifetime to be sure.

Ron Madden
08-11-2008, 04:25 PM
Marty is on WLW and is saying it is a great move.


Marty is wrong.

TeamBoone
08-11-2008, 04:25 PM
Marty is on WLW and is saying it is a great move.

Of course he is.

nate
08-11-2008, 04:25 PM
Holy bat-crap. I misread the press release. We traded Dunn AND cash?

I am at a loss for words.

I didn't even know Pilo Cash was in our organization.

RedEye
08-11-2008, 04:26 PM
I was horrified by the Kearns trade. I'm not even sure how to describe my emotions after this one.

Caveat Emperor
08-11-2008, 04:26 PM
Marty is on WLW and is saying it is a great move.

I wish we could trade that moronic windbag to Arizona for a franken-arm A baller and a PTBNL.

You want to change the "culture" of the ballclub -- start with the old fossil upstairs who berates the players and turns casual fans against the talent ownership wants them to pay money to see.

Roy Tucker
08-11-2008, 04:26 PM
Some things in life are bad
They can really make you mad
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on life's gristle
Don't grumble, give a whistle
And this'll help things turn out for the best...

And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life...

RedsFan75
08-11-2008, 04:27 PM
Marty is on WLW and is saying it is a great move.

I would expect nothing less from him.

edabbs44
08-11-2008, 04:27 PM
They've gone totally bonkers.

Worst trade of my lifetime to be sure.

Probably not if you factor in them probably deciding that they weren't bringing him back next year. Then, technically, it would be the three guys (including Buck) for 1.5 months of Dunn and a couple of comp picks.

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 04:28 PM
Dunn and cash means the Reds are going to get good players back. Maybe Parker after the August 15th timeline. I hope I don't regret this but I'm going to trust Jocketty.

RichRed
08-11-2008, 04:28 PM
Jocketty: Adam, we really want to re-sign you.

Dunn: And I want to re-sign and finish my career in Cincinnati, Walt.

Jocketty: But I need you to do a favor for this franchise first.

Dunn: Sure thing, anything for the Reds!

Jocketty: We are going to trade you to a contender so we can get some extra prospects. Heck, maybe you will even get to play in the playoffs. Then, when the season ends, you can re-sign and come back to Cincinnati.

Dunn: Great plan! Where am I going?

Jocketty: Arizona. We haven't had time to figure out which players we are getting in return because I have spent my whole afternoon formulating this plan with you.



My dream... :)

I emailed almost the exact same scenario to my brother just now. Ahh, if only.

RedEye
08-11-2008, 04:29 PM
I may have missed this discussion earlier on, but is Dallas Buck any good?

bucksfan2
08-11-2008, 04:29 PM
I don't think the two guys are filler. There was are reason that the Reds and Dbacks went down to the wire before this trade was completed.

Jocketty built the Cards into a powerhouse in the central. He built a WS champ and a team that went to the playoffs year in year out. IMO Jocketty isn't an idiot and there was a reason he traded Dunn to the DBacks. The Reds as an organizatoin "aren't drunk"

To me Dunn was overvalued by Redszone. When 4/5 of the teams in baseball don't put in a claim for Dunn that tells me something. He also spent the last two trading deadlines commanding very little in return.

NC Reds
08-11-2008, 04:29 PM
Regarding the official Reds release article, isn't this just a WONDERFUL tribute to Adam Dunn's history with the Reds, which is the only reference to him in the whole thing (except the intro paragraph, of course):



Disgusting.

I completely agree. Dunn would have easily been the biggest slugger in the history of the franchise in just a few short years and they footnote the guy.

Marty Brennaman is an old coot.

wheels
08-11-2008, 04:29 PM
Some things in life are bad
They can really make you mad
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on life's gristle
Don't grumble, give a whistle
And this'll help things turn out for the best...

And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life...

Somebody posted that in the original "Milton Thread" a few years ago.

Doesn't bode well.

I think I'm gonna be sick.

durl
08-11-2008, 04:29 PM
1-9 without Griffey and we just traded our top run producer.

While I had to admit that the season ended after being swept by the Nationals, this officially lays it to rest. This makes Encarnacion our top home run threat (1/3rd as many as Dunn), and makes Phillips our RBI leader.

It will be extremely ugly from here on out. And perhaps for another few years.

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 04:29 PM
Dunn finishes 4th in Reds history with 270 career homeruns. He became my favorite players when he was called up on July 20th of 2001. It's a shame the Reds didn't surround him with better talent. I'll miss him a lot.

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 04:30 PM
I don't think the two guys are filler. There was are reason that the Reds and Dbacks went down to the wire before this trade was completed.

Jocketty built the Cards into a powerhouse in the central. He built a WS champ and a team that went to the playoffs year in year out. IMO Jocketty isn't an idiot and there was a reason he traded Dunn to the DBacks. The Reds as an organizatoin "aren't drunk"

To me Dunn was overvalued by Redszone. When 4/5 of the teams in baseball don't put in a claim for Dunn that tells me something. He also spent the last two trading deadlines commanding very little in return.

Well, two of us feel this way anyway. Rebuilding comes with some pain.

westofyou
08-11-2008, 04:30 PM
Probably not if you factor in them probably deciding that they weren't bringing him back next year. Then, technically, it would be the three guys (including Buck) for 1.5 months of Dunn and a couple of comp picks.

Yep... worst trade?

This one stunk.. and continues to.

February 10, 1982: George Foster traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the New York Mets for Alex Trevino, Jim Kern, and Greg Harris.

schroomytunes
08-11-2008, 04:30 PM
I'd be willing to bet the other 2 prospects are Gerard Parra(OF) and Brooks Brown(SP) both are in AA Mobile.

RedEye
08-11-2008, 04:31 PM
Well, two of us feel this way anyway. Rebuilding comes with some pain.

Yes, I suppose the Reds are undeniably in rebuilding mode now. I just wish they could have done it more like the A's. You know, trade our good players at their peak value for a ton of prospects who then turn out to be much better than everyone else thought.

NC Reds
08-11-2008, 04:31 PM
Dunn finishes 4th in Reds history with 270 career homeruns. He became my favorite players when he was called up on July 20th of 2001. It's a shame the Reds didn't surround him with better talent. I'll miss him a lot.

I completely agree. I wish the rebuilding project had started years ago and featured a role for him.

dougdirt
08-11-2008, 04:32 PM
They've gone totally bonkers.

Worst trade of my lifetime to be sure.

I think you are taking this a little far. Had they made this deal a year or two ago, then you might have a point. However with 2 months left in an absolute lost season and a FA at the end of the year? It isn't a huge deal if they weren't bringing him back, which obviously they weren't planning on.

Caveat Emperor
08-11-2008, 04:32 PM
Well, two of us feel this way anyway. Rebuilding comes with some pain.

This isn't rebuilding.

This is using all your money to buy a wrecking ball to clear a job site and then looking confused when your workers ask you where the materials are for the new house.

*BaseClogger*
08-11-2008, 04:32 PM
I'm becoming more optimistic that the PTBNL's are of higher quality since the Reds included cash with Dunn in the deal...

wheels
08-11-2008, 04:32 PM
Probably not if you factor in them probably deciding that they weren't bringing him back next year. Then, technically, it would be the three guys (including Buck) for 1.5 months of Dunn and a couple of comp picks.

No offense to you, I think you're a funny guy most of the time.....But I don't give a flying flapjack about justifying a return right now.

There is no way you can justify that return, anyway.

It's easy. Just ask the Diamondbacks how much a division title is worth to them. If it's just Dallas Buck and some leftover puke from last night's party, you walk away.

RedEye
08-11-2008, 04:32 PM
Well, two of us feel this way anyway. Rebuilding comes with some pain.

I do agree, though, that it doesn't look like Walt is going to do this half-way rebuild thing the franchise has been stuck in for the past two decades.

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 04:33 PM
Yes, I suppose the Reds are undeniably in rebuilding mode now. I just wish they could have done it more like the A's. You know, trade our good players at their peak value for a ton of prospects who then turn out to be much better than everyone else thought.

I agree but hopefully with Walt at the helm he'll recognize the time to trade. For now he's clearing the decks and instead of just slapping a coat of paint on the same tired structure he's rebuilding the framework. That may hurt before it helps.

IslandRed
08-11-2008, 04:34 PM
Yes, I suppose the Reds are undeniably in rebuilding mode now. I just wish they could have done it more like the A's. You know, trade our good players at their peak value for a ton of prospects who then turn out to be much better than everyone else thought.

I like that approach too. Although that approach applied to Dunn would have made him an ex-Red about 20 months ago, and I can only imagine how that would have gone over, considering the gnashing of teeth over losing a few (definitely) meaningless weeks' production before (probably) losing him to free agency.

RichRed
08-11-2008, 04:34 PM
Yep... worst trade?

This one stunk.. and continues to.

February 10, 1982: George Foster traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the New York Mets for Alex Trevino, Jim Kern, and Greg Harris.

That one completely broke my heart as a 12-year-old. I'm not feeling a whole lot better about this one but I hope Jocketty proves me wrong.

Ltlabner
08-11-2008, 04:34 PM
It would be foolhardy to declair this the worst trade ever without even knowing the return.

However, the chances of this one turning out good are very slim (as it appears right now).

RedEye
08-11-2008, 04:34 PM
I agree but hopefully with Walt at the helm he'll recognize the time to trade. For now he's clearing the decks and instead of just slapping a coat of paint on the same tired structure he's rebuilding the framework. That may hurt before it helps.

Especially since we just traded our only hammer for some bent nails.

cincrazy
08-11-2008, 04:34 PM
Well, two of us feel this way anyway. Rebuilding comes with some pain.

Make that three

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 04:34 PM
I'd be willing to bet the other 2 prospects are Gerard Parra(OF) and Brooks Brown(SP) both are in AA Mobile.

Parra is raw but has talent. He's been rushed a bit but has hit decent at lower levels. Brooks Brown has good stuff but I still want more than that.

Matt700wlw
08-11-2008, 04:35 PM
So far Walt is the only GM who's realized that this team, in it's current construct, was going NOWHERE.

He's the only one who's been willing to tear it down....now hopefully he can be the one to build it the right way. The GMs before him simply reshuffled deck chairs for 7 years.

cincrazy
08-11-2008, 04:35 PM
Especially since we just traded our only hammer for some bent nails.

And we know this how? I must have left my crystal ball that looks into the future somewhere else...

TeamBoone
08-11-2008, 04:35 PM
Yes, I suppose the Reds are undeniably in rebuilding mode now.

The Reds have been rebuilding for so long that it's become old hat.

edabbs44
08-11-2008, 04:35 PM
No offense to you, I think you're a funny guy most of the time.....But I don't give a flying flapjack about justifying a return right now.

There is no way you can justify that return, anyway.

It's easy. Just ask the Diamondbacks how much a division title is worth to them. If it's just Dallas Buck and some leftover puke from last night's party, you walk away.

We don't even know the entire return just yet.

RedEye
08-11-2008, 04:35 PM
Parra is raw but has talent. He's been rushed a bit but has hit decent at lower levels. Brooks Brown has good stuff but I still want more than that.

Where are people getting the names Brooks and Parra?

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 04:36 PM
So far Walt is the only GM who's realized that this team, in it's current construct, was going NOWHERE.

He's the only one who's been willing to tear it down....now hopefully he can be the one to build it the right way.

Makes me wonder what kind of behind the scenes talks he's had with boss Bob.

RedEye
08-11-2008, 04:36 PM
Is this hunch about Brooks Brown and Parra based on anything more than a hunch?

RedlegJake
08-11-2008, 04:36 PM
Where are people getting the names Brooks and Parra?

Pure speculation.

Matt700wlw
08-11-2008, 04:36 PM
Makes me wonder what kind of behind the scenes talks he's had with boss Bob.

Oh, to be a fly...

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 04:36 PM
It sucks that the Reds waited this freaking long to start rebuilding. They should have started this five years ago, now they wait until they finally have some young talent on the roster and begin tearing it down.

edabbs44
08-11-2008, 04:36 PM
So far Walt is the only GM who's realized that this team, in it's current construct, was going NOWHERE.

He's the only one who's been willing to tear it down....now hopefully he can be the one to build it the right way. The GMs before him simply reshuffled deck chairs for 7 years.

Seriously. As long as he piles on young talent over the next couple of years, this team could drop 120 games each season and I wouldn't bat an eye.

princeton
08-11-2008, 04:37 PM
like the Griffey deal, I think that Walt got lucky again--

a team that actually wanted Dunn, and that had a lot of good young talent, made a claim :thumbup:

I'm liking Walt so far. he seems to have been empowered to go for big things instead of having to play things two ways at once.

schroomytunes
08-11-2008, 04:37 PM
Brown and Parra are just guesses!! but they are in Arizona's top 10 prospects.

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 04:37 PM
Where are people getting the names Brooks and Parra?

That's just someone throwing those names out. The other two players haven't been named yet.