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View Full Version : Micah Owings is one of the players to be named in the Adam Dunn deal.



redsfan4445
08-12-2008, 09:49 PM
per the Arizona republic and rotoworld.com:

The Arizona Republic reports that Micah Owings is one of the players to be named in the Adam Dunn deal.
Depending on who the second player to be named is, this could end up looking like a great deal for Cincinnati, who wasn't going to re-sign Dunn anyway. Owings was a big disappointment this season after posting a 4.30 ERA in 2007, and while the Diamondbacks refused to say he was injured, he's currently dealing with shoulder stiffness in the minors. He'll need to improve his change-up to make it as a starter, and who knows - the Reds could always convert him to an outfielder or first baseman.

flyer85
08-12-2008, 09:53 PM
CTR said tha Owings was claimed on waivers ... won't see him in a Reds uniform his year.

lollipopcurve
08-12-2008, 09:56 PM
I hope the Reds look seriously at making Owings a hitter.

redsfan30
08-12-2008, 09:57 PM
We'll have some power off the bench, that's for sure!

edabbs44
08-12-2008, 09:58 PM
I hope the Reds look seriously at making Owings a hitter.

It's one of the safeties of drafting a pitcher who mashes. I thought the same thing when Drabek was in the draft.

OnBaseMachine
08-12-2008, 09:59 PM
I'd like see Owings kept as a pitcher and see if he can't return to his 2007 form. If not, he could always be converted back to a hitter.

wolfboy
08-12-2008, 10:00 PM
BoilerBC11 in the minor league forum is claiming his "inside sources" say the other player is Jarrod Parker. I'd find it highly unlikely, but there could be something to it. It looks like from previous posts that the poster went to the same HS as Parker. Just a rumor like any other at this point though.

flyer85
08-12-2008, 10:00 PM
I hope the Reds look seriously at making Owings a hitter.he isn't all that impressive as a pitcher ... really struggles against LHB

MWM
08-12-2008, 10:03 PM
I'm not at all enamored by Owings.

CTA513
08-12-2008, 10:05 PM
If true maybe the Reds could get the Diamondbacks to have him convert to a position player in the minors before coming to the Reds at the end of the season?

lollipopcurve
08-12-2008, 10:08 PM
I'm not at all enamored by Owings.

How so? Prior to his going downhill this year, presumably due to shoulder problems, he looked like a very solid young starter. And even now, if his arm is pretty damaged, he could become a RH hitter of consequence. Tremendous baseball athlete.

Falls City Beer
08-12-2008, 10:10 PM
Gotta believe he'll be converted to offense. This team is light years behind every team in the Central in offense now.

wolfboy
08-12-2008, 10:12 PM
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/images/2006/06/23/pdouipnO.jpg

Puffy
08-12-2008, 10:20 PM
Go Wave!!

Always Red
08-12-2008, 10:20 PM
Gotta believe he'll be converted to offense. This team is light years behind every team in the Central in offense now.

"Batting 5th and playing LF for the Reds, #44, Micah Owings....Owings." ~ Paul Sommerkamp.

Just maybe, Owings has a sore shoulder... Jocketty's done it before, with good success.

VR
08-12-2008, 10:30 PM
So far, two significant names, two significant injuries.

RedEye
08-12-2008, 10:34 PM
An Owings-Parker-Buck return would be an absolute HAUL for Dunn at this point.

Dare we dream?

jojo
08-12-2008, 10:36 PM
he isn't all that impressive as a pitcher ... really struggles against LHB

Ya. He's basically a back end guy who is overrated in a Kordell Stewart kind of way.

vaticanplum
08-12-2008, 10:38 PM
Where is Owings in terms of service time? What kind of a contract does he have?

edit: here's what Cots has on him:

Micah Owings rhp
1 year/$0.402M (2008)
re-signed 3/9/08
1 year (2007), contract purchased 4/07
drafted 2005 (3-83), $0.44M signing bonus
ML service: 1.000

His agent is Scott Boras. Yay.

Not sure when last updated, so not sure how accurate that 1.000 service time figure is, but close enough, anyway.

OnBaseMachine
08-12-2008, 10:40 PM
Owings has a 3.14 ERA, 0.38 HR/9, 2.66 BB/9, and 7.94 K/9 in the minor leagues. Not to mention he had a solid rookie season last year. I'll take that. I don't think anyone expects him to be an ace but he looks like a solid bet to be a nice 3/4 starter.

Falls City Beer
08-12-2008, 10:42 PM
I think he can be a plus bat.

wolfboy
08-12-2008, 10:43 PM
Owings has a 3.14 ERA, 0.38 HR/9, 2.66 BB/9, and 7.94 K/9 in the minor leagues. Not to mention he had a solid rookie season last year. I'll take that. I don't think anyone expects him to be an ace but he looks like a solid bet to be a nice 3/4 starter.

He has a nice frame for a pitcher as well. 6'5/225.

RedEye
08-12-2008, 10:43 PM
Owings has a 3.14 ERA, 0.38 HR/9, 2.66 BB/9, and 7.94 K/9 in the minor leagues. Not to mention he had a solid rookie season last year. I'll take that. I don't think anyone expects him to be an ace but he looks like a solid bet to be a nice 3/4 starter.

Ditto. I think one ML ready arm is about what we should have hoped for in a Dunn deal on August 11th. Once the third player is announced, I will either be somewhat happy with the deal or just sadly content.

Blitz Dorsey
08-12-2008, 10:45 PM
I joked about this yesterday saying it would help make up for some of the HRs lost with Dunn's departure, but maybe not so much with the pitching staff. But honestly I'm glad Owings is included in this deal. He can be a good No. 4 if things fall right or at least a No. 5. And he will help the lineup every fifth day. Lol.

jojo
08-12-2008, 10:49 PM
Owings has a 3.14 ERA, 0.38 HR/9, 2.66 BB/9, and 7.94 K/9 in the minor leagues. Not to mention he had a solid rookie season last year. I'll take that. I don't think anyone expects him to be an ace but he looks like a solid bet to be a nice 3/4 starter.

He relies way too much on a sinking fastball yet still manages to have flyball tendencies....he struggles against lefties too.

#3 starter is pretty optimistic......

kaldaniels
08-12-2008, 10:49 PM
He held (or still holds...not sure) the all time Georgia high school HR record.

Stormy
08-12-2008, 10:50 PM
I think he can be a plus bat.

Obviously his injury has taken a toll on his swing this year, as well as impeding his pitching prowess. Assuming it's not a long-term impediment (ala Kearns post-King), you may well be right that he'll be a more productive bat than arm. At least there are multiple possibilities for his usage.

bucksfan2
08-12-2008, 10:58 PM
I really like Owings. Last season if the Reds would have picked him up he probably would have been the #2 pitcher. Not to mention he will probably be the best pinch hitter on the team.

The_jbh
08-12-2008, 11:00 PM
I think Owings is a great pick up for the Reds. I think he can definitely be a solid middle to back end starter in the league and gives us another major league ready arm. I think he was hurt this year and will be able to return to his rookie year form.

Owings was the DBacks #6 rated prospect in 2007. For those of you that are Baseball America Subscribers, here is his 2007 scouting report
http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/prospects/features/263346.html

basically says good fastball 88-92 that can reach 95-96 when needed (consistently in 95-97 as a reliever) with a possible plus slider and average change that needs to be become more consistent. Work horse and competitor, great athlete

redsfan4445
08-12-2008, 11:00 PM
Maybe Jocketty sees in Owings like he did in the Cardinals Rick Ankiel??? He was converted to a outfielder because he couldn't pitch (Jocketty was there), now maybe he is thinking the same can be done with Owings??

fearofpopvol1
08-12-2008, 11:03 PM
Owings minor league numbers look pretty solid to me. I think he can be, at the very least, a very solid #4 starter. Reds need pitching still.

Falls City Beer
08-12-2008, 11:05 PM
Owings minor league numbers look pretty solid to me. I think he can be, at the very least, a very solid #4 starter. Reds need pitching still.

Reds need a TON of pitching. But now they need offense just as badly.

Stormy
08-12-2008, 11:05 PM
Owings minor league numbers look pretty solid to me. I think he can be, at the very least, a very solid #4 starter. Reds need pitching still.

How about as a reliever, who also is in the starting lineup 5 days a week. ;) It will save Dusty from burning an extra player when he double switches, too.

nate
08-12-2008, 11:06 PM
Reds need a TON of pitching. But now they need offense just as badly.

They get both with one guy!

11larkin11
08-12-2008, 11:06 PM
I know this gets mentioned with every pitcher we have, but they say all he really needs to become fairly good again is to work on his change. We have this guy name Mario from the DR...

The_jbh
08-12-2008, 11:13 PM
Owings has had too much success in the majors pre-injury to move him to OF right now... maybe further down the road but for now he is certainly a starting pitcher.

Honestly, after a couple months of rehab for Owings I am pretty enthusiastic about a rotation of...

Harang
Volquez
Arroyo
Cueto
Owings

With Thompson, Maloney, and Bailey in the wings if someone fails/gets hurt.

I like our starting pitching depth for next year.

The line up is a whole different story

Falls City Beer
08-12-2008, 11:20 PM
Harang
Volquez
Arroyo
Cueto
Owings



This rotation looks a whole lot like the stinker that's got us to 53 wins this season.

Time to add some different bulldog principals to the front of that.

Cyclone792
08-12-2008, 11:21 PM
A couple interesting things I've heard floating around amongst those in the know ...

1) Micah Owings is one of the two PTBNLs
2) Corey Patterson IS engaged to Dusty Baker's daughter

I have no idea if either is true, though I guess we'll know about #1 fairly soon.

:lol:

Well ... my source was correct on item #1. I don't want to think about what that means for item #2.

Blitz Dorsey
08-12-2008, 11:24 PM
This rotation looks a whole lot like the stinker that's got us to 53 wins this season.

Time to add some different bulldog principals to the front of that.

This year is the aberration for Harang. Or maybe you choose to think that the three years (2005-07) he was awesome were aberrations. I still think the Reds can have a good rotation next year with Harang at the top as long as they add a legit No. 2 to go along with him. The Reds need to plan to have seven starting pitchers and hope that five of them work out. They have five legit contenders now with Harang, Volquez, Arroyo, Cueto and Owings. Jocketty has the money to get two more this offseason. Then he needs to work on the OF.

The_jbh
08-12-2008, 11:24 PM
This rotation looks a whole lot like the stinker that's got us to 53 wins this season.

Time to add some different bulldog principals to the front of that.

History shows Harang isn't going to stink. This year is a fluke

Arroyo is adequate at #3 or #4.

Volquez is Volquez

I think Cueto has a huge year after a year of experience.

Owings as a 5 starter.

Depth in AAA

I think its the best rotation we've had in awhile

We can hope that WJ is going to improve the defense behind these guys as well

11larkin11
08-12-2008, 11:24 PM
This rotation looks a whole lot like the stinker that's got us to 53 wins this season.

Time to add some different bulldog principals to the front of that.

The difference? Arroyo looks now like the Arroyo immediately when we traded for him. Cueto will be much better, he is learning on the go. Volquez will slide a bit but still be, IMO, our ace. Owings is much better than Fogg/Bailey/Belisle. IMO it will all depend on if Harang returns to 2006-2007 Aaron Harang.

vaticanplum
08-12-2008, 11:26 PM
:lol:

Well ... my source was correct on item #1. I don't want to think about what that means for item #2.

I thought the Patterson thing was common knowledge, actually. Someone I knew who doesn't even follow the Reds threw it into casual conversation not long ago. I'm not confirming or saying that I heard this from any reliable source or anything...just pointing out that at least in some places it's being bandied about as fact.

The_jbh
08-12-2008, 11:28 PM
This year is the aberration for Harang. Or maybe you choose to think that the three years (2005-07) he was awesome were aberrations. I still think the Reds can have a good rotation next year with Harang at the top as long as they add a legit No. 2 to go along with him. The Reds need to plan to have seven starting pitchers and hope that five of them work out. They have five legit contenders now with Harang, Volquez, Arroyo, Cueto and Owings. Jocketty has the money to get two more this offseason. Then he needs to work on the OF.

I think we are fine adding one more arm to the competition... in fact I think Catching is MUCH MORE of a priority than adding any more pitchers. Thompson Bailey and Maloney can all provide competition to Owings or Cueto. Catching is the true black hole. Definitely have an issue in the OF now

wolfboy
08-12-2008, 11:29 PM
This rotation looks a whole lot like the stinker that's got us to 53 wins this season.

Time to add some different bulldog principals to the front of that.

I just don't understand why you hate the pitching we have so much. Harang is a proven commodity who has had a down year. I think Volquez has more than shown that he can be a solid #2 this year. Cueto has taken his lumps, but has an upside of a #3. Arroyo seems on his way down, but he's still a capable 4/5. I don't think Owings gives you a great 5, but not many teams have a great 5.

That's not a Hall of Fame rotation by any means, but it could look a heck of a lot worse. This isn't Elmer Dessens and Jimmy Haynes. I know you haven't forgotten that name.

Hoosier Red
08-12-2008, 11:31 PM
History shows Harang is going to stink


?????

I'm not sure history shows anything, but if it does, I don't think it shows he will stink.

hebroncougar
08-12-2008, 11:32 PM
History shows Harang is going to stink

Arroyo is adequate at #3 or #4.

Volquez is Volquez

I think Cueto has a huge year after a year of experience.

Owings as a 5 starter.

Depth in AAA

I think its the best rotation we've had in awhile

We can hope that WJ is going to improve the defense behind these guys as well

Please explain?

Cyclone792
08-12-2008, 11:32 PM
I thought the Patterson thing was common knowledge, actually. Someone I knew who doesn't even follow the Reds threw it into casual conversation not long ago. I'm not confirming or saying that I heard this from any reliable source or anything...just pointing out that at least in some places it's being bandied about as fact.

I first heard it a few weeks ago before WLW ran with it on the local airwaves. I actually thought the fact that WLW ran with it would have buried it more as a rumor than a fact, because after all, I don't believe a word Tracy Jones says.

Sea Ray
08-12-2008, 11:33 PM
I think we are fine adding one more arm to the competition... in fact I think Catching is MUCH MORE of a priority than adding any more pitchers. Thompson Bailey and Maloney can all provide competition to Owings or Cueto. Catching is the true black hole. Definitely have an issue in the OF now

I agree. In fact I hope all three are not pitchers. We have plenty of candidates for our pitching staff next year. We need some offense.

As for the rotation, they need at least one Lefty. I don't see what loading up on #4/5 starters does to improve this team. I'd rather they improve on Corey Patterson and Paul Bako

Falls City Beer
08-12-2008, 11:33 PM
I just don't understand why you hate the pitching we have so much. Harang is a proven commodity who has had a down year. I think Volquez has more than shown that he can be a solid #2 this year. Cueto has taken his lumps, but has an upside of a #3. Arroyo seems on his way down, but he's still a capable 4/5. I don't think Owings gives you a great 5, but not many teams have a great 5.

That's not a Hall of Fame rotation by any means, but it could look a heck of a lot worse. This isn't Elmer Dessens and Jimmy Haynes. I know you haven't forgotten that name.

Harang is a proven commodity who completely fell apart at the seams this year. The guy's always walking a razor's edge with his FBs. I hope to heck he's hurt. Genuinely hurt. Otherwise, he's fallen off a cliff. Arroyo is old.

What's not to like about Volquez and Cueto? They're great, sure. But they're two starters. Young, young starters. And young starters suck for long stretches.

I'd love to see this team grab an anchor, an honest to God bulldog anchor like a healthy Tim Hudson, mid-career Mike Mussina, Curt Schilling.

A guy who will will himself not to suck for a half-season at a time.

And then they have to replace the whole offense.

vaticanplum
08-12-2008, 11:34 PM
I first heard it a few weeks ago before WLW ran with it on the local airwaves. I actually thought the fact that WLW ran with it would have buried it more as a rumor than a fact, because after all, I don't believe a word Tracy Jones says.

I heard it in a land far away. Sometimes when I'm in Cincinnati I really do feel like I'm encased in bubble wrap.

Falls City Beer
08-12-2008, 11:37 PM
Oh, and the Reds have nada in AAA for starting depth.

wolfboy
08-12-2008, 11:39 PM
Harang is a proven commodity who completely fell apart at the seams this year. The guy's always walking a razor's edge with his FBs. I hope to heck he's hurt. Genuinely hurt. Otherwise, he's fallen off a cliff. Arroyo is old.

What's not to like about Volquez and Cueto? They're great, sure. But they're two starters. Young, young starters. And young starters suck for long stretches.

I'd love to see this team grab an anchor, an honest to God bulldog anchor like a healthy Tim Hudson, mid-career Mike Mussina, Curt Schilling.

A guy who will will himself not to suck for a half-season at a time.

And then they have to replace the whole offense.

I'm not arguing that it's a complete rotation by any means. However, you have to concede that it's a rotation with some promise.

Harang should have been that bulldog anchor, but it looks like he's injured. You'd look at going out and getting one if you had the intention of competing next year. That's clearly not the case with this team.

WVRedsFan
08-12-2008, 11:39 PM
I just don't understand why you hate the pitching we have so much. Harang is a proven commodity who has had a down year. I think Volquez has more than shown that he can be a solid #2 this year. Cueto has taken his lumps, but has an upside of a #3. Arroyo seems on his way down, but he's still a capable 4/5. I don't think Owings gives you a great 5, but not many teams have a great 5.

That's not a Hall of Fame rotation by any means, but it could look a heck of a lot worse. This isn't Elmer Dessens and Jimmy Haynes. I know you haven't forgotten that name.I think what FCB is trying to say is we have some question marks to consider. Will Harang come back to form? Will Arroyo continue to pitch lights out? Will Volquez be the pitcher he was in the first half or the one se've seen since just before the AS break? Will Cueto be able to hold his temper and learn to pitch without giving up Miltonesque numbers of HR's? Is Owings' arm problem serious?

That's a lot of questions for one pitching staff, so we need a stud or two to add to this bunch. That's all.

wolfboy
08-12-2008, 11:41 PM
I think what FCB is trying to say is we have some question marks to consider. Will Harang come back to form? Will Arroyo continue to pitch lights out? Will Volquez be the pitcher he was in the first half or the one se've seen since just before the AS break? Will Cueto be able to hold his temper and learn to pitch without giving up Miltonesque numbers of HR's? Is Owings' arm problem serious?

That's a lot of questions for one pitching staff, so we need a stud or two to add to this bunch. That's all.

Sometimes I'm just easily fooled.


Reds need a TON of pitching. But now they need offense just as badly.

Will M
08-12-2008, 11:46 PM
while the Diamondbacks refused to say he was injured, he's currently dealing with shoulder stiffness in the minors.

does anyone know exactly what is wrong with him? after the Majeski fiasco the fact that Owings has a sore shoulder and we just pulled off a quick trade in a 48 hr window makes me a little anxious. did we buy damaged goods because we didn't have time to do our homework?

The_jbh
08-12-2008, 11:48 PM
?????

I'm not sure history shows anything, but if it does, I don't think it shows he will stink.


whoops that was supposed to say history shows Harang is not going to stick like 08...

I'm optimistic towards next years rotation

wolfboy
08-12-2008, 11:54 PM
does anyone know exactly what is wrong with him? after the Majeski fiasco the fact that Owings has a sore shoulder and we just pulled off a quick trade in a 48 hr window makes me a little anxious. did we buy damaged goods because we didn't have time to do our homework?

I'll re-post the blurb I found earlier about Owings and his shoulder. It's from the Arizona Star. The story is from today, but was posted prior to any of the solid leads about Owings being one of the players coming back in the trade.
http://www.azstarnet.com/sports/252362


Inside pitch
● Manager Bill Plummer said starting pitcher Micah Owings (shoulder stiffness) will probably miss his start Wednesday. "Precautionary more than anything." Plummer said.

The same story states the following:


OWINGS HURTING?
Micah Owings has been dealing with a stiff shoulder, and manager Bill Plummer said the starting pitcher would be seeing a doctor.
Owings declined to comment on his shoulder, which was wrapped up before Monday's game. The D-backs optioned him to Tucson on July 29 after he went 6-9 with a 5.93 ERA.

Here's another story that makes mention of the sore shoulder, but has a different account of it:
http://www.ktar.com/sports/?nid=22&sid=932143


Owings was scheduled to start Wednesday night for the Tucson Sidewinders but is not expected to miss the start with a stiff shoulder.

Will M
08-13-2008, 12:00 AM
I'll re-post the blurb I found earlier about Owings and his shoulder. It's from the Arizona Star. The story is from today, but was posted prior to any of the solid leads about Owings being one of the players coming back in the trade.
http://www.azstarnet.com/sports/252362



The same story states the following:



Here's another story that makes mention of the sore shoulder, but has a different account of it:
http://www.ktar.com/sports/?nid=22&sid=932143


thanks. still makes me nervous as the haul for Dunn looks quite good with Owings and the other pitcher & a 3rd player but not so good if the Diamondbacks only traded Owings because he was injured.

jojo
08-13-2008, 12:04 AM
Elbow problems, shoulder issues...... shopping for pitchers like this is kind of like buying electronic equipment from one of those discount places that sells only refurbished stuff with a "before close today" warranty....

lollipopcurve
08-13-2008, 12:11 AM
Elbow problems, shoulder issues..

Buck has had his TJ surgery. Owings can hit if his shoulder problems are serious.

How many pitchers don't ever have arm issues?

Stormy
08-13-2008, 12:12 AM
Elbow problems, shoulder issues...... shopping for pitchers like this is kind of like buying electronic equipment from one of those discount places that sells only refurbished stuff with a "before close today" warranty....

Yea, the enormous risk, high reward approach. However, that tack is best utilized when taking fliers on the gamble (akin to the acquisitions of Hamilton and Phillips, or the old style reclamation projects of guys like Harnisch). The stakes are much higher when you just traded away the most productive player your anemic offensive team has featured this decade. However, given the likelihood of Dunn's departure one way or the other, it's been a decent return, and one which a good 'third player' among the PTBNL could really improve.

By the same token, these guys could also wash out as quickly as what gm once branded 'the ever shrinking Denny Neagle trade.' Heck, we have even already added the obligatory post TJ Claussen of the deal... ;)

Stormy
08-13-2008, 12:15 AM
Buck has had his TJ surgery. Owings can hit if his shoulder problems are serious .

How many pitchers don't ever have arm issues?

Tell Brandon Claussen and Austin Kearns those things, respectively. ;) Actually, I'm with you in tentatively liking aspects of the return we've received, but I certainly realize the major attendant risks.

Blitz Dorsey
08-13-2008, 01:27 AM
This also gives us a RHH pinch hitter with pop. And I'm completely serious. Owings should be used in that role occasionally IMO.

And with him and Bronson (if we keep him, which I hope we do), Reds could lead the NL in pitcher OPS in more ways than one ;-)

I think Owings is going to be a solid pitcher here eventually. Really like his minor league numbers. This trade is getting better. Curious to hear who mystery player No. 3 is.

Raisor
08-13-2008, 01:39 AM
This also gives us a RHH pinch hitter with pop. And I'm completely serious. Owings should be used in that role occasionally IMO.

And with him and Bronson (if we keep him, which I hope we do), Reds could lead the NL in pitcher OPS in more ways than one ;-)

I think Owings is going to be a solid pitcher here eventually. Really like his minor league numbers. This trade is getting better. Curious to hear who mystery player No. 3 is.



Reds pitchers have created 2.1 runs this year, so that would be a good place for some improvement.

:thumbup:

AmarilloRed
08-13-2008, 01:46 AM
Let Owings recover from his injury this year; give him a chance to make the starting rotation next year in spring training.

oregonred
08-13-2008, 01:52 AM
Wikipedia is amazing... Check out the first line of his page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micah_Owings

"Micah Burton Owings (born September 28, 1982 in Gainesville, Georgia) is a major league baseball player, a right-handed pitcher for the Cincinnati Reds.

A breakout star in the 2007 season, Owings finished the season with a memorable performance in his home state, a complete game shut-out, and an impressive batting record, which earned him the 2007 Silver Slugger Award for excellence at the plate. Owings is widely regarded as the best hitting pitcher in the majors, and the Diamondbacks frequently use him as a pinch hitter."
Owings holds Georgia's high school home run record with 69, fourth in the nation only to Drew Henson, Jeff Clement, and James Peterson. As a sophomore, he hit .630 with 21 homers; as a senior he hit .448 with 25 home runs while going 12-1 on the mound with a 1.03 ERA, 121 strikeouts, 3 walks in 75 innings. Owings played his freshman and sophomore seasons at Forsyth Central High School in Cumming and transferred to Gainesville High School as a junior.

Owings played college baseball at Georgia Tech in 2003 and 2004 before transferring to Tulane University in New Orleans.[1]

He was selected by the Colorado Rockies in the 2nd round (50th overall) in the 2002 Major League Baseball draft but did not sign with them. He was selected again in 2003 in the 19th round (576th overall) by the Chicago Cubs and again chose not to sign. In 2005, he was selected in the third round by the Arizona Diamondbacks (83rd overall).

After signing with the D-backs, he was assigned to the Single-A Lancaster Jethawks. He pitched in 16 games out of the bullpen, going 1-1 with a 2.45 ERA. In 2006, he played in Double-A and Triple-A for the Tennessee Smokies and the Tucson Sidewinders, respectively. He made 12 starts for the Smokies and went 6-2 with a 2.88 ERA. His stats in Triple-A were also impressive, in which he went a perfect 10-0 with a 3.75 ERA in just 15 starts.

Major league career
Owings made his major league debut on April 6, 2007 against the Washington Nationals. He pitched five shutout innings, allowing only one hit, and striking out six. Originally brought up to fill a starter spot while Randy Johnson recovered from back surgery, management was very impressed by his performances. On July 26, Owings hit his first Major League home run against Byung-Hyun Kim of the Florida Marlins.

Owings was having an uneventful season in the major leagues in 2007, until his return to the state of Georgia to face the Atlanta Braves on August 18, 2007. In front of more than 48,000 fans, he pitched 7.0 innings, allowing three hits and three earned runs, striking out seven. However, it was his batting performance that made it a career night. Owings went 4 for 5 at the plate, including two home runs, scoring four times, and knocking in six runs. He is the first pitcher with four hits, four runs and six RBI in the same game. The last pitcher in the Major Leagues to record four hits and four runs was Danny Jackson in 1988. Owings' 11 total bases are the most by a pitcher in the last 50 seasons. The last Arizona player to have four hits, two homers, four runs and six RBI was Shea Hillenbrand in 2003. He was also the first Diamondbacks pitcher to have 2 home runs in one game. The Diamondbacks would win the game 12-6.

After the game, Owings said "It's up there with the best ever. To be back home and have the game I had tonight, I'm just unbelievably blessed."[citation needed]

Following two particularly poor outings in early September 2007 (pulled before the fourth inning in each, with a combined 12 runs scored), Owings pitched his first Major League complete game shutout on September 18, 2007, allowing only two hits against the San Francisco Giants.[2]

Later in 2007, on September 27, Owings made an emergency start in place of Brandon Webb and pitched 6 1/3 innings of shutout ball, while going 4-for-4 at the plate with three doubles and three RBI. He became the first pitcher since Whitey Ford to have two 4-hit games in one season. His batting average of .333 for the 2007 season ranks fourth best for pitchers with more than 50 ABs (20 hits in 60 at bats) since 1973, the beginning of the Designated Hitter era (in the American League).

On December 5, 2007, the Arizona Republic newspaper reported that the Diamondbacks were considering playing Owings at first base during the days that he was not pitching, in an effort to get his potent bat into the lineup on a more regular basis. [3]

On April 30, 2008, Owings had a pinch-hit 2-run home run against the Houston Astros. It was the first pinch homer by a pitcher in the majors in more than four years. Brooks Kieschnick of the Milwaukee Brewers had last done it against Matt Mantei of the Arizona Diamondbacks on April 22, 2004.[4]

On June 4, 2008, manager Bob Melvin inserted Owings 8th in the batting order at Milwaukee. Diamondbacks lost 10-1 to Milwaukee. [5]

On August 11, Cincinnati Reds left fielder Adam Dunn was traded to the Diamondbacks for a prospect and 2 players to be named. There is speculation that Owings is one of these players.

Matt700wlw
08-13-2008, 02:19 AM
www.thelotd.com/ctrent/blog/2008/08/12/what_im_hearing Was it Leatherpants that claimed Owens? I could see it...

WVRedsFan
08-13-2008, 02:52 AM
www.thelotd.com/ctrent/blog/2008/08/12/what_im_hearing Was it Leatherpants that claimed Owens? I could see it...
According to what I read. Pitiful. When will he be fired? Not soon enough.

Regardless, we will get Owings. JB is just a pain in the behind. always has been and always will be. Note to Walt Jocketty. Avoid this scum like the plague. Wayne Krivsky agrees and has the wounds to prove it.

Degenerate39
08-13-2008, 02:54 AM
www.thelotd.com/ctrent/blog/2008/08/12/what_im_hearing Was it Leatherpants that claimed Owens? I could see it...

I wish they'd just send him to jail already for what ever the situation was in the Dominican.

gm
08-13-2008, 02:58 AM
By the same token, these guys could also wash out as quickly as what gm once branded 'the ever shrinking Denny Neagle trade.' Heck, we have even already added the obligatory post TJ Claussen of the deal... ;)

Make that the "incredibly shrinking Denny Neagle deal"...Ed Yarnall, anyone? And another part of that blockbuster was a former Michigan QB who toiled as a Red's farmhand and was briefly a member of the Viking's practice squad, last year (his name escapes me...ah yes, Drew Henson, of course)

But trust me, it won't take long for someone to remind me that a by-product of "Denny's home run breakfast" was Wily Mo Pena, who as we all know was eventually traded for...Bronson Arroyo.

Cincy ex-GMs, you gotta love 'em. And I wouldn't be consistent if I failed to mention that DN was 14-2 in his last 16 decisions with Cincy (you could look it up...) That should've been worth a few more "can't miss" prospects than 32 HRs from a two-month Texan rental unit, eh?

(maybe JimBo "knew something" about the train whistle's left arm that he didn't bother mentioning to the Yankees...egads, how could I even THINK such a thing?!)

Just for the record, I was ready for the Griffey/Dunn era to be over this spring. For no particular reason, I found myself yawning at the same ol' blah results. (Tonight's game, by contrast, was refreshing.) I'm not promising that there will be more wins coming down the pike, but at least the wishbone-C "laundry" has some fresh faces in it

Speaking of which, Micah Owings wishes he could be...Brooks Kieschnick (sp?)

Big Klu
08-13-2008, 03:51 AM
"Batting 5th and playing LF for the Reds, #44, Micah Owings....Owings." ~ Paul Sommerkamp.

Just maybe, Owings has a sore shoulder... Jocketty's done it before, with good success.

Thanks for the nostalgia blast. As a kid, I always liked the way Paul Sommerkamp announced. It was very professional, and it seemed like the right way to do it. (The Yankees and Dodgers announcers also have that kind of style.) I have occasionally served as the PA announcer for our high school team, and I have always tried to emulate him


This also gives us a RHH pinch hitter with pop. And I'm completely serious. Owings should be used in that role occasionally IMO.

And with him and Bronson (if we keep him, which I hope we do), Reds could lead the NL in pitcher OPS in more ways than one ;-)

I think Owings is going to be a solid pitcher here eventually. Really like his minor league numbers. This trade is getting better. Curious to hear who mystery player No. 3 is.


Well, the Reds now have an answer to Carlos Zambrano and C.C. Sabathia in one way. :D

Seriously, with the 12-man (and sometimes 13-man) pitching staffs forcing the bench size to only five players (or maybe even four), I think it is going to become more important to have pitchers who can contribute offensively off the bench when they are not starting--guys like Micah Owings and Bronson Arroyo at the plate, and Arroyo, Johnny Cueto, and Daryl Thompson as pinch-runners.

camisadelgolf
08-13-2008, 03:56 AM
Maybe it's better if the Reds wait to receive Micah Owings. The worse record they have, the better draft position they have next year.

Blimpie
08-13-2008, 08:28 AM
Maybe it's better if the Reds wait to receive Micah Owings. The worse record they have, the better draft position they have next year.While I agree with this notion, I was kinda looking for a reason to tune in to the last 40 games this season.

LoganBuck
08-13-2008, 08:54 AM
The Reds could decide to push for Owings to settle that pesky grievance. What an
http://www.explorecrete.com/albums/album19/donkey.jpg

Always Red
08-13-2008, 09:04 AM
If I'm a GM and Micah Owings comes across my desk on waivers, I'd claim him too.

I have no idea how the process works- do the GM's know that the waiver process on a traded player like Owings is specifically for a trade, or is it just like every other player that has been put to waivers and floats across the wire? Can anyone help with that who really knows and isn't just giving an educated guess?

I love to dump on Leatherpants at any opportunity, but did he know he was blocking a trade? A trade that will eventually happen and he is just delaying it out of spite?

princeton
08-13-2008, 09:22 AM
I love to dump on Leatherpants at any opportunity, but did he know he was blocking a trade? A trade that will eventually happen and he is just delaying it out of spite?


yes, he knew

he started the practice years ago. Before that, it was an unwritten rule to let these trades complete themselves.

he probably would have blocked the Dunn claim if he could have explained to his boss why he was spending $4mill for a rental.

PuffyPig
08-13-2008, 09:27 AM
If I'm a GM and Micah Owings comes across my desk on waivers, I'd claim him too.

I love to dump on Leatherpants at any opportunity, but did he know he was blocking a trade? A trade that will eventually happen and he is just delaying it out of spite?

There is no way any GM would think that he could claim Owings and get to keep him. These are revocable waivers, and it would be clear to everyone that Owings wasn't placed on waivers to clear a spot on the roster. Otherwise, every team would claim him.

blumj
08-13-2008, 09:39 AM
It's not just that. I'm pretty sure that major league GMs find out about things like this before we do. If you're either the D-Backs or the Reds, don't you want it to be out there in the open, so the other teams know that they absolutely, postively, won't get the player if they do claim him?

camisadelgolf
08-13-2008, 09:52 AM
The grievance between the Nationals and Reds has been dropped.

Always Red
08-13-2008, 09:53 AM
yes, he knew

he started the practice years ago. Before that, it was an unwritten rule to let these trades complete themselves.

he probably would have blocked the Dunn claim if he could have explained to his boss why he was spending $4mill for a rental.


There is no way any GM would think that he could claim Owings and get to keep him. These are revocable waivers, and it would be clear to everyone that Owings wasn't placed on waivers to clear a spot on the roster. Otherwise, every team would claim him.

thanks for shedding light on this practice for me- I really had no idea how the process unfolded.

Redny
08-13-2008, 09:56 AM
The grievance between the Nationals and Reds has been dropped.

I must have missed that, when did it get dropped?

RedlegJake
08-13-2008, 09:57 AM
Yep. Only Leatherpants. In a deal like this the general unwritten rule is to let the trade go through. Why block a player going to a franchise like the Reds, in no position to go anywhere. This kind of thing is why I hated Bowden as our GM - he has no integrity and no common sense.

princeton
08-13-2008, 10:00 AM
I must have missed that, when did it get dropped?

about a month ago there was an article on Majewski:

according to two baseball sources, the grievance was recently dropped after the Reds relieved Wayne Krivsky of his duties as general manager. Nationals general manager Jim Bowden, who is in Cincinnati for the Nats' weekend series against the Reds, was not available for comment and Majewski declined to comment. The Nationals have always maintained they were innocent of any wrongdoing.

The only thing Majewski would say was that he was not 100 percent and had undergone a cortisone shot a few days before the trade. Majewski never had surgery on the shoulder. It turns out that he had muscle fatigue, and he spent the first half of the 2007 season strengthening the shoulder.

"I wouldn't say I was hurt, completely," Majewski said. "I was on a lot of medication. ... We didn't know what was wrong. We didn't know if it was biceps tendinitis. They didn't know if I was hurt. It was one of things where I wasn't feeling good, but we couldn't put a finger on it. I didn't know what was going on. I was definitely feeling something in there."

flyer85
08-13-2008, 10:09 AM
The grievance between the Nationals and Reds has been dropped.I guess they all finally concluded Majewski just isn't very good

blumj
08-13-2008, 10:19 AM
Yep. Only Leatherpants. In a deal like this the general unwritten rule is to let the trade go through. Why block a player going to a franchise like the Reds, in no position to go anywhere. This kind of thing is why I hated Bowden as our GM - he has no integrity and no common sense.
The reason it's particularly creepy is, it doesn't hurt the D-Backs, it doesn't hurt the Reds in any significant way, the only person it hurts is the young player who has to spend the rest of his season in this weird kind of limbo, as a member of a team he knows he's already been traded from, and not as a member of a team he already knows he's been traded to.

lollipopcurve
08-13-2008, 10:27 AM
The reason it's particularly creepy is, it doesn't hurt the D-Backs, it doesn't hurt the Reds in any significant way, the only person it hurts is the young player who has to spend the rest of his season in this weird kind of limbo, as a member of a team he knows he's already been traded from, and not as a member of a team he already knows he's been traded to.

Exactly.

That's why, if it was Washington who claimed Owings, MLB needs to turn the page on Bowden. And then slam the book shut.

RedlegJake
08-13-2008, 10:42 AM
Exactly.

That's why, if it was Washington who claimed Owings, MLB needs to turn the page on Bowden. And then slam the book shut.

I really think most GMs hate having to deal with Bowden. Ricciardi, for all his faults, once took a player back in a deal when he turned out hurt. He didn'thave to as I understand it, he did it because he didn't want the other GM to feel he'd misrepresented the deal. Most GMs I think would do that. Bowden never would. Jimbo has always done stuff like blocking this deal. He may be the least trusted, least liked GM in baseball. You can be shrewd and smart (not sure he even qualifies here anymore) but if you aren't trusted and respected, you've got nothing.

Sea Ray
08-13-2008, 10:51 AM
The Reds are stockpiling RH SPs. I think this makes Arroyo an expensive luxury we can't afford. His money could be better spent elsewhere. If he can be moved before next year I'd say it behooves us to do so. And this is nothing against Bronson who to his credit has improved his game this year. He's just not worth an 8 figure salary to this ballclub

OldXOhio
08-13-2008, 10:54 AM
According to what I read. Pitiful. When will he be fired? Not soon enough.

Regardless, we will get Owings. JB is just a pain in the behind. always has been and always will be. Note to Walt Jocketty. Avoid this scum like the plague. Wayne Krivsky agrees and has the wounds to prove it.

I'm not going to get into the whole "the trade" thing but Jimbo's got some wear from that deal too ya know.

We speculated on this very thing yesterday - never put anything past JB or anyone for that matter who has no conscience.

RedlegJake
08-13-2008, 10:56 AM
The Reds are stockpiling RH SPs. I think this makes Arroyo an expensive luxury we can't afford. His money could be better spent elsewhere. If he can be moved before next year I'd say it behooves us to do so. And this is nothing against Bronson who to his credit has improved his game this year. He's just not worth an 8 figure salary to this ballclub

I expect Bronson will be shopped hard this winter. I also expect that BP will be traded.

Sea Ray
08-13-2008, 11:00 AM
I expect Bronson will be shopped hard this winter. I also expect that BP will be traded.

We'll see. BP isn't making big money next year so that would be more of a case of being bowled over by offers than a salary dump which Arroyo would be

PuffyPig
08-13-2008, 11:09 AM
I expect Bronson will be shopped hard this winter. I also expect that BP will be traded.

Posters are looking at the Dunn trade as a sign the team is rebuilding and dumping their best players.

Dunn was traded to get the best return for the 6 weeks he had left with us.

It's very unlikley that Phillips will be traded, unless it's for a huge return.

Falls City Beer
08-13-2008, 11:13 AM
Posters are looking at the Dunn trade as a sign the team is rebuilding and dumping their best players.

Dunn was traded to get the best return for the 6 weeks he had left with us.

It's very unlikley that Phillips will be traded, unless it's for a huge return.

I don't think it's so black and white. I think Bronson will be traded, but Phillips retained.

So which is it? A dump? A rebuilding? A reloading? Probably a bit of all.

Wheelhouse
08-13-2008, 11:15 AM
So far, two significant names, two significant injuries.
Traded for one significant problem: Dunn was not going to re-sign with the Reds (per Arroyo and the 100-120 MM dollars).

OldXOhio
08-13-2008, 11:15 AM
Posters are looking at the Dunn trade as a sign the team is rebuilding and dumping their best players.

Dunn was traded to get the best return for the 6 weeks he had left with us.

It's very unlikley that Phillips will be traded, unless it's for a huge return.

Yeah, I'd put Harang and Arroyo in that category as well. Just don't buy into the notion that this will be a complete overhaul. Reshuffle a few, discard some of the excess parts, see what some of the newbies can do, get ready for the offseason.

Wheelhouse
08-13-2008, 11:19 AM
I don't think it's so black and white. I think Bronson will be traded, but Phillips retained.

So which is it? A dump? A rebuilding? A reloading? Probably a bit of all.

I think the opposite: I don't think the Reds are about to trade Arroyo based on Castellini's comments. The Reds could get a MAJOR power bat or power pitcher for BP.

Unassisted
08-13-2008, 12:10 PM
I expect Bronson will be shopped hard this winter. I also expect that BP will be traded.FWIW, BP was on Castellini's list of untouchables. Bronson was not.

letsgojunior
08-13-2008, 12:16 PM
FWIW, BP was on Castellini's list of untouchables. Bronson was not.

If you're referring to Jocketty's list of untouchables, BP was not on that list.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69400&highlight=untouchable+encarnacion

Put me in the column of preferring draft picks over the return we received here. A more accurate labeling for the PTBNL in this deal would likely be "players who will need surgery later."

vaticanplum
08-13-2008, 12:19 PM
Traded for one significant problem: Dunn was not going to re-sign with the Reds (per Arroyo and the 100-120 MM dollars).

This is speculation from one player, and not the player in question. It's reasonable speculation, but let's not treat it as fact.

Strikes Out Looking
08-13-2008, 12:19 PM
According to CTrent, the other player is Catcher Wilkin Castillo.

Unassisted
08-13-2008, 12:24 PM
If you're referring to Jocketty's list of untouchables, BP was not on that list.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69400&highlight=untouchable+encarnacionDuly noted. Thanks. :oops:

Az Red
08-13-2008, 12:26 PM
According to CTrent, the other player is Catcher Wilkin Castillo.

Is it in his blog?

princeton
08-13-2008, 12:38 PM
This is speculation from one player, and not the player in question. It's reasonable speculation, but let's not treat it as fact.


the longer the Reds went without signing Dunn, the more likely that he was going to go on the market.

after that, who knows what it was going to take to sign him. I don't think that he'll get what Arroyo says he's looking for, but the Reds didn't seem to have a particular advantage especially since the guy was looking like he was tired of this place.

cumberlandreds
08-13-2008, 12:40 PM
Is it in his blog?

Yep, here it is.

http://www.thelotd.com/ctrent/blog

RedLegSuperStar
08-13-2008, 12:42 PM
Because we can't get Owings do to other teams putting a claim on him.. Does that mean we get some sort of compensation? Seems a little unfair that the main piece in the return is still on the same team as the player we gave up to acquire him.

Kc61
08-13-2008, 12:44 PM
If you're referring to Jocketty's list of untouchables, BP was not on that list.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69400&highlight=untouchable+encarnacion

Put me in the column of preferring draft picks over the return we received here. A more accurate labeling for the PTBNL in this deal would likely be "players who will need surgery later."

Arbitration offer and draft picks has big downsides --

Player can accept arbitration
Draft picks are unproven and far from the major leagues
High draft picks have become extremely expensive.

The last point is the key. Loading up with first and second round picks is an expensive proposition. And the guys are years from the majors and unproven.

The Reds will have a high first pick next year, and maybe two if Alonso doesn't sign.

I can understand why they didn't want to load up with more high draft choices and preferred some guys closer to the majors.

Wheelhouse
08-13-2008, 12:57 PM
Arbitration offer and draft picks has big downsides --

Player can accept arbitration
Draft picks are unproven and far from the major leagues
High draft picks have become extremely expensive.

The last point is the key. Loading up with first and second round picks is an expensive proposition. And the guys are years from the majors and unproven.

The Reds will have a high first pick next year, and maybe two if Alonso doesn't sign.

I can understand why they didn't want to load up with more high draft choices and preferred some guys closer to the majors.

Excellent post.

Blitz Dorsey
08-13-2008, 01:48 PM
Leatherpants is too easy of a nickname.

I prefer Pastacheeks.

redsmetz
08-13-2008, 02:06 PM
Because we can't get Owings do to other teams putting a claim on him.. Does that mean we get some sort of compensation? Seems a little unfair that the main piece in the return is still on the same team as the player we gave up to acquire him.

As I understand it, the D'Backs will revoke the waivers and retain him. They cannot post him on the waiver wire for another 30 days, at which point the season is nearly over. If they put him on waivers again and someone claims him, he cannot be pulled back. So I suspect that once the season's over (perhaps after the Series?), they are free to trade him without placing him on waivers, so he'll come over to us then. I have no idea whether we can insist that another player be given should his condition deteriorate.

MartyFan
08-13-2008, 02:27 PM
Can I get an update on the trade...

It looks like Buck, Owings and do we have an idea of who the third player is yet or is it still all speculation?

OnBaseMachine
08-13-2008, 02:28 PM
Can I get an update on the trade...

It looks like Buck, Owings and do we have an idea of who the third player is yet or is it still all speculation?

Wilken Castillo, a 24-year old AAA catcher is the rumored third player but it's still just a rumor at this point.

flyer85
08-13-2008, 02:37 PM
Wilken Castillo, a 24-year old AAA catcher is the rumored third player but it's still just a rumor at this point.So is Owings for that matter. Nothing official on either PTBNL.

bucksfan2
08-13-2008, 02:38 PM
I wonder how much control over Owings the Reds have. Can the Reds tell the DBacks they don't want Owings to pitch for the rest of the season? Can the Reds have Kremcheck look at Owings shoulder? The last thing I would want is the AAA club now keeping a close eye on Owings because he is really no longer in the Arizona organizatoin.

OnBaseMachine
08-13-2008, 02:39 PM
So is Owings for that matter. Nothing official on either PTBNL.

It's nearly all but confirmed that Owings is in the deal. Hal McCoy says Owings is definitely in the deal.

Caveat Emperor
08-13-2008, 02:48 PM
You stay classy, Jimmy Bowden.

KronoRed
08-13-2008, 02:51 PM
This is speculation from one player, and not the player in question. It's reasonable speculation, but let's not treat it as fact.

Stop with the logic ;)

KronoRed
08-13-2008, 02:51 PM
I wonder how much control over Owings the Reds have. Can the Reds tell the DBacks they don't want Owings to pitch for the rest of the season? Can the Reds have Kremcheck look at Owings shoulder? The last thing I would want is the AAA club now keeping a close eye on Owings because he is really no longer in the Arizona organizatoin.

If he gets hurt again the Reds would have grounds to ask for another player.

LoganBuck
08-13-2008, 03:06 PM
Other teams routinely send players to meet with Kremchek so that would be just fine.

Falls City Beer
08-13-2008, 03:31 PM
This is speculation from one player, and not the player in question. It's reasonable speculation, but let's not treat it as fact.

When it comes to FA contracts, it is speculation, but it's not like players have taken considerably less money (without I guess the "hometown discount") than their comps within a similar timeframe. So while a solid figure can't be hammered out, you can say with some certainty that it will be within the 100 million dollar range--give or take (likely "give") 5 million.

HokieRed
08-13-2008, 03:44 PM
IIRC, waiver order is based on last year's finish and goes league by league. If that's right, I'd assume the claim was made by a team that would like to have seen the deal aborted, one that would not want to play (possibly) a Dunn-improved D'backs team in the playoffs--in other words, the Marlins.

redsmetz
08-13-2008, 03:46 PM
IIRC, waiver order is based on last year's finish and goes league by league. If that's right, I'd assume the claim was made by a team that would like to have seen the deal aborted, one that would not want to play (possibly) a Dunn-improved D'backs team in the playoffs--in other words, the Marlins.

But the claim on Owings doesn't negate the Dunn trade, it just delays the Reds getting Owings.

HokieRed
08-13-2008, 03:50 PM
When was the claim made--since the trade--or during the negotiation? If during the negotiation, then it could certainly be made as a way of trying to block the trade itself. As it was, they barely got this deal done.

OldXOhio
08-13-2008, 03:54 PM
But the claim on Owings doesn't negate the Dunn trade, it just delays the Reds getting Owings.

so is there a reason for a team like the Nats to put the claim in, other than a guy like Jimbo just wanting to be a pain in the arse?

RedsManRick
08-13-2008, 04:01 PM
so is there a reason for a team like the Nats to put the claim in, other than a guy like Jimbo just wanting to be a pain in the arse?

Other than the desperate hope Arizona won't notice and will let him go or that the Nats can offer a better last second offer and convince Arizona to change its mind... no.

Given that Jimbo is on the outs, he doesn't need to worry about making friends. Smells like a snub to me.

Sea Ray
08-13-2008, 04:20 PM
IIRC, waiver order is based on last year's finish and goes league by league. If that's right, I'd assume the claim was made by a team that would like to have seen the deal aborted, one that would not want to play (possibly) a Dunn-improved D'backs team in the playoffs--in other words, the Marlins.


At this point in the year it's based on current record not 2007 so there are very few teams ahead of the Reds.

Sea Ray
08-13-2008, 04:21 PM
Can the Reds have Kremcheck look at Owings shoulder? The last thing I would want is the AAA club now keeping a close eye on Owings because he is really no longer in the Arizona organizatoin.

The Reds would be idiots to agree to any trade for a player that doesn't have to pass a Kremchek physical first

LoganBuck
08-13-2008, 04:31 PM
Can Bud Selig override the Nats' waiver claim? He did it to be a fly in the ointment, and there is no competitive advantage, just bad blood.

My guess is he probably can, but will he?

letsgojunior
08-13-2008, 04:34 PM
Arbitration offer and draft picks has big downsides --

Player can accept arbitration
Draft picks are unproven and far from the major leagues
High draft picks have become extremely expensive.

The last point is the key. Loading up with first and second round picks is an expensive proposition. And the guys are years from the majors and unproven.

The Reds will have a high first pick next year, and maybe two if Alonso doesn't sign.

I can understand why they didn't want to load up with more high draft choices and preferred some guys closer to the majors.

I disagree on several points.

First, I view it as highly unlikely, and especially in view of reports that he was seeking a $120 million contract, that Dunn would have accepted arbitration. So I think the notion that that was a huge concern is somewhat overstated.

Second, I agree that draft picks are typically, at a minimum, three years out from everyday play. Nevertheless, I think that goes to the basic question of when the Reds have a strong chance of competing. Based upon these moves and other factors, I think it's relatively unlikely that they'll be able to field any more than a mediocre team next year. The Reds have essentially gutted what was once the team's greatest strength (the offense), are saddled with several large contracts which increase substantially next year (see Harang, Arroyo, Phillips, and especially Cordero) - essentially eating away most of the salary savings from trading Dunn/Griffey. That is not even getting to the fact that the free agent market is extremely weak, and that the Reds lack attractive trading chips (other than the guys who will not be moved, i.e., Volquez, Bruce).

In essence, I think it comes down to the basic question of whether the Reds want to set themselves a realistic goal and slowly add the pieces necessary for contention, or continue the “lets compete, but not really” trend that was started during the JimBo era.

Third, I don’t think that the general statement that draft picks are expensive fully captures the financial commitment the Reds would need to make had Dunn signed with another team. If Dunn was classified as a type A free agent (highly likely), the Reds would have received a sandwich pick and the signing team’s pick. Given that the average first round signing bonus last year was a little over $2 M, it seems that would result in an initial financial commitment of around $4 M for the Reds (probably less given that sandwich picks would not command as much).

That's pretty insubstantial IMO in view of two things. First, the Reds would have the drafted players under their control, and would be paying the drafted players slightly above the league minimum for three years. Thus, if the Reds made solid picks, they would potentially have beneficial production at a fraction of the cost compared to players with 6+ years of service time, resulting in long-term savings. Second, I would consider $4 M spent on young talent to be a much more solid investment than the other ways the Reds have recently elected to spend their money ($3 M on Corey “I can’t hit my way out of a paper bag” Patterson; 2 year/$7 M extension for Freel; huge contract coupled with limited NTC for Cordero).

Always Red
08-13-2008, 04:41 PM
Other than the desperate hope Arizona won't notice and will let him go or that the Nats can offer a better last second offer and convince Arizona to change its mind... no.

Given that Jimbo is on the outs, he doesn't need to worry about making friends. Smells like a snub to me.

Why would a guy who is getting ready to lose his job (and presumably look for another in baseball) burn bridges behind him? It's not just the Reds that will be ticked off about this. And all of the Reds FO guys that Jimbo is angry with have also moved on. What an idiot!

Never mind, I forgot for a second we were talking about Jim Bowden, teflon man.

Danny Serafini
08-13-2008, 04:43 PM
Can Bud Selig override the Nats' waiver claim? He did it to be a fly in the ointment, and there is no competitive advantage, just bad blood.

My guess is he probably can, but will he?

I was thinking the same thing. It wouldn't be the first time the Reds got someone's waiver claim invalidated, that's how the Reds got Bobby Livingston. Little different circumstance, but still it can be done.

klw
08-13-2008, 05:04 PM
Wilken Castillo, a 24-year old AAA catcher is the rumored third player but it's still just a rumor at this point.

Someone wise and dutiful ;) has posted a link in a Minor League thread that an Arizona paper is saying that the third player is actually a pitcher on the 40 man roster.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/122935

Here is Arizona's 40 man roster




40-Man Roster
Pitchers B/T Ht Wt DOB
33 Billy Buckner R/R 6-2 215 08/27/83
* -- Jonathan Coutlangus L/L 6-1 185 10/21/80
37 Juan Cruz R/R 6-2 145 10/15/78
49 Doug Davis R/L 6-4 215 09/21/75
* 62 Emiliano Fruto R/R 6-3 230 06/06/84
** 31 Edgar Gonzalez R/R 6-2 210 02/23/83 60-day Disabled List
* 58 Juan Gutierrez R/R 6-2 210 07/14/83
15 Dan Haren R/R 6-5 215 09/17/80
51 Randy Johnson R/L 6-10 225 09/10/63
38 Brandon Lyon R/R 6-1 195 08/10/79
* 44 Micah Owings R/R 6-5 220 09/28/82
* 36 Jailen Peguero R/R 6-0 185 01/04/81
56 Tony Pena R/R 6-2 220 01/09/82
48 Yusmeiro Petit R/R 6-0 255 11/22/84
50 Chad Qualls R/R 6-5 220 08/17/78
57 Jon Rauch R/R 6-11 290 09/27/78
47 Leo Rosales R/R 6-0 205 05/28/81
* 39 Max Scherzer R/R 6-3 215 07/27/84
* 45 Doug Slaten L/L 6-5 215 02/04/80 15-day Disabled List
* 65 Esmerling Vasquez R/R 6-1 175 11/07/83
17 Brandon Webb R/R 6-2 230 05/09/79

Catchers B/T Ht Wt DOB
* 60 Wilkin Castillo S/R 6-0 200 06/01/84
* 7 Robby Hammock R/R 5-10 185 05/13/77
26 Miguel Montero L/R 5-11 190 07/09/83
19 Chris Snyder R/R 6-4 245 02/12/81

Infielders B/T Ht Wt DOB
* 61 Javier Brito R/R 6-1 245 03/25/83
2 Chris Burke R/R 5-11 195 03/11/80
13 Tony Clark S/R 6-7 245 06/15/72
* 21 Jamie D'Antona R/R 6-2 220 05/12/82
6 Stephen Drew L/R 6-0 185 03/16/83
** 1 Orlando Hudson S/R 6-0 190 12/12/77 60-day Disabled List
11 Augie Ojeda S/R 5-9 175 12/20/74
27 Mark Reynolds R/R 6-2 220 08/03/83
18 Chad Tracy L/R 6-2 215 05/22/80
* -- Josh Whitesell L/L 6-1 225 04/14/82

Outfielders B/T Ht Wt DOB
** 22 Eric Byrnes R/R 6-2 215 02/16/76 60-day Disabled List
32 Adam Dunn L/R 6-6 275 11/09/79
34 Conor Jackson R/R 6-2 215 05/07/82
28 Alex Romero L/R 6-0 200 09/09/83
12 Jeff Salazar L/L 6-0 195 11/24/80
* 10 Justin Upton R/R 6-2 205 08/25/87 15-day Disabled List
24 Chris Young R/R 6-2 200 09/05/83

* Not on Active Roster
** Not on 40-Man Roster

Just saw that this was posted on the Dunn Trade thread part XXXIV

Far East
08-13-2008, 05:19 PM
Wilkin Castillo
Born: 06/01/1984
Birthplace: Bani, Dominican Republic
Height: 6' 0"
Weight: 200
Bats: S
Throws: R

2008 Season
Team League AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS
TUC PCL .254 103 382 39 97 17 2 6 47 136 23 54 4 1 .304 .356 .660

Excellent teammate for fellow Dominicans Volquez and Cueto?!

OnBaseMachine
08-13-2008, 06:03 PM
Somebody said to manager Dusty Baker, “So, you’re getting Micah Owings from Airzona in the Adam Dunn deal?”

Before he thought, Baker said, “Yeah.” Then, realizing this stuff hasn’t been announced yet, he added, “Really?”

But the flash in his eyes said it all.

Then he was told that there is a report that the Reds can’t get Owings right now - because he had to clear waivers and Washington general manager and former Reds GM Jim Bowden put in a claim for him.

That forced Arizona to withdraw Owings from waivers and now the Reds can’t get him until after the season.

“Bowden was just doing what he could to help his club,” said Baker, another smile on his face.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

edabbs44
08-13-2008, 08:56 PM
MLB.com reports that Micah Owings hasn't been placed on waivers.

There have been reports that the Nationals put in a claim on Owings to prevent him from being sent to Cincy as part of the Adam Dunn deal, but MLB.com says those are untrue. There are four teams that could block such a move, so Owings might not become a Red until the offseason.

from rotoworld

reds44
08-13-2008, 08:56 PM
You can't put an injured player on waivers, thus he hasn't been put on them yet. When he gets healthy they will try to pass him through waivers.

OnBaseMachine
08-13-2008, 08:57 PM
I got a new twist on Micah Owings thing: I'm told that injured players cannot be put on waivers. Owings was scratched from his start Wednesday with shoulder stiffness, according to reports in Arizona.

When asked if he'd like to have Owings now, Dusty Baker said "I don't think he's available now. He has some oblique problem or something."

Whether it's an oblique or a shoulder, Owings won't be put on waivers until he's healthy. He'll have to pass through waivers for the Reds to get him. If another club picks him, the Diamondbacks will pull him back and the Reds will get him at the end of the year.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a666082c2-d967-464b-a0b9-69305c89177e&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

gm
08-13-2008, 08:58 PM
Another explanation of motivation for a Nat's-Owings waiver claim


When he is, it is unlikely he would get past Washington. The Nationals have long had interest in Owings, and assistant general manager Mike Rizzo drafted Owings in 2005.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/122935

IslandRed
08-13-2008, 09:06 PM
Which makes you wonder why the Nats would bother, since he's already ticketed for Cincinnati. I guess they're hoping the entire Diamondbacks front office comes down with the flu or something and there would be no one around to submit the paperwork to pull Owings back from waivers?

edabbs44
08-13-2008, 09:22 PM
Which makes you wonder why the Nats would bother, since he's already ticketed for Cincinnati. I guess they're hoping the entire Diamondbacks front office comes down with the flu or something and there would be no one around to submit the paperwork to pull Owings back from waivers?

What if all the rumors are just rumors and he isn't headed to Cincy?

OnBaseMachine
08-13-2008, 09:24 PM
What if all the rumors are just rumors and he isn't headed to Cincy?

Hal McCoy has already confirmed that Owings is definitely in the deal.

edabbs44
08-13-2008, 09:33 PM
Hal McCoy has already confirmed that Owings is definitely in the deal.

Well there you have it. :)

wheels
08-13-2008, 10:14 PM
I disagree on several points.

First, I view it as highly unlikely, and especially in view of reports that he was seeking a $120 million contract, that Dunn would have accepted arbitration. So I think the notion that that was a huge concern is somewhat overstated.

Second, I agree that draft picks are typically, at a minimum, three years out from everyday play. Nevertheless, I think that goes to the basic question of when the Reds have a strong chance of competing. Based upon these moves and other factors, I think it's relatively unlikely that they'll be able to field any more than a mediocre team next year. The Reds have essentially gutted what was once the team's greatest strength (the offense), are saddled with several large contracts which increase substantially next year (see Harang, Arroyo, Phillips, and especially Cordero) - essentially eating away most of the salary savings from trading Dunn/Griffey. That is not even getting to the fact that the free agent market is extremely weak, and that the Reds lack attractive trading chips (other than the guys who will not be moved, i.e., Volquez, Bruce).

In essence, I think it comes down to the basic question of whether the Reds want to set themselves a realistic goal and slowly add the pieces necessary for contention, or continue the “lets compete, but not really” trend that was started during the JimBo era.

Third, I don’t think that the general statement that draft picks are expensive fully captures the financial commitment the Reds would need to make had Dunn signed with another team. If Dunn was classified as a type A free agent (highly likely), the Reds would have received a sandwich pick and the signing team’s pick. Given that the average first round signing bonus last year was a little over $2 M, it seems that would result in an initial financial commitment of around $4 M for the Reds (probably less given that sandwich picks would not command as much).

That's pretty insubstantial IMO in view of two things. First, the Reds would have the drafted players under their control, and would be paying the drafted players slightly above the league minimum for three years. Thus, if the Reds made solid picks, they would potentially have beneficial production at a fraction of the cost compared to players with 6+ years of service time, resulting in long-term savings. Second, I would consider $4 M spent on young talent to be a much more solid investment than the other ways the Reds have recently elected to spend their money ($3 M on Corey “I can’t hit my way out of a paper bag” Patterson; 2 year/$7 M extension for Freel; huge contract coupled with limited NTC for Cordero).

Dingdingding!!!

Heck, even if Dunn accepted arbitration they'd be able to shop him with near impunity due to the lack of a no trade clause. I wouldn't call that a worst case scenario by any means.

If they're willing plunk down the coin for a 16 year old Juan Duran, they shouldn't have much trouble ponying up for domestic picks, but that's just my silly-fied logic talking.

Of course, the best way to go would have been trading Dunn for guys that aren't injured or post - op.

jojo
08-13-2008, 10:49 PM
I can understand why they didn't want to load up with more high draft choices and preferred some guys closer to the majors.

I can't-especially given the guys we think they preferred.

4256 Hits
08-13-2008, 11:34 PM
Man you guys have thrown Bowden under the bus and back up and drove over him again about 100 times. Talk about :deadhorse

Then it turns out none of you knew the truth. :rolleyes: :nono:

Caveat Emperor
08-13-2008, 11:55 PM
Then it turns out none of you knew the truth

It was reported by a reporter, known to be reliable in the past, that the Nats were the ones who had claimed Owings. Getting information from a reporter is about as close the "truth" as you'll get with virtually any story unless you fly someplace, get credentialed, and interview a player or coach yourself. Otherwise, you're always taking someone else's word for it.

Besides, this fits completely with how I expect Bowden would operate.

mbgrayson
08-14-2008, 01:00 AM
It was reported by a reporter, known to be reliable in the past, that the Nats were the ones who had claimed Owings. ...Besides, this fits completely with how I expect Bowden would operate.

Well, it may not be the 'Leatherpants is a jerk' thing after all:

From the East Valley Tribune (http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/122935) in Arizona:


It is unclear if Owings has been placed on waivers.
When he is, it is unlikely he would get past Washington. The Nationals have long had interest in Owings, and assistant general manager Mike Rizzo drafted Owings in 2005.

Once the regular season ends, waivers are no longer required to make a trade.

Owings was 8-8 with a 4.30 ERA for the D-Backs last season, and he also won the NL Silver Slugger award. He won his first four starts this season but went into a slump and was 6-9 with a 5.93 ERA when he was optioned to Tucson on July 29. He has made two appearances for the Sidewinders, going 0-0 with a 4.09 ERA.

Matt700wlw
08-14-2008, 01:14 AM
He's still a jerk... ;)

mbgrayson
08-14-2008, 01:51 AM
He's still a jerk... ;)

Agreed! :beerme:

gm
08-14-2008, 02:52 AM
maybe they're just waiting for the Nat's W-L record to climb above the Reds?

RFS62
08-14-2008, 07:55 AM
Nice post, LGJ


Nice of you to drop in, now that you're a fancy schmancy lawyer and stuff.

REDREAD
08-14-2008, 10:13 AM
from rotoworld


MLB.com reports that Micah Owings hasn't been placed on waivers.

There have been reports that the Nationals put in a claim on Owings to prevent him from being sent to Cincy as part of the Adam Dunn deal, but MLB.com says those are untrue. There are four teams that could block such a move, so Owings might not become a Red until the offseason.


You mean the Cincinnati media totally fabricated something in order to make everyone's favorite villian (Bowden) look bad? You mean Bowden doesn't sit around obsessed all day with trying to screw over the Reds?

It amazes me the blatant falsehoods the Reds media get away with. Bowden was "over" the Reds a long time ago. I suspected this report of Bowden claiming Owings was wrong.

REDREAD
08-14-2008, 10:17 AM
It was reported by a reporter, known to be reliable in the past, that the Nats were the ones who had claimed Owings. Getting information from a reporter is about as close the "truth" as you'll get with virtually any story unless you fly someplace, get credentialed, and interview a player or coach yourself. Otherwise, you're always taking someone else's word for it.

Besides, this fits completely with how I expect Bowden would operate.

It started out as speculation, and then it was reported as fact.
Very irresponsible reporting by Cincy media, but that is no surprise.

This is the same reason I didn't believe Daughtry immediately "knew" the players we were getting back for Dunn but could not tell us.

Everyone is ignoring the fact that Bowden would not claim Owens, because if he did, Walt could screw up every waiver wire claim Bowden tried. Do you think Bowden wants Walt to claim every Nats player next August, so the Nats can't trade anyone to a contender?

nate
08-14-2008, 10:20 AM
It started out as speculation, and then it was reported as fact.
Very irresponsible reporting by Cincy media, but that is no surprise.

This is the same reason I didn't believe Daughtry immediately "knew" the players we were getting back for Dunn but could not tell us.

Everyone is ignoring the fact that Bowden would not claim Owens, because if he did, Walt could screw up every waiver wire claim Bowden tried. Do you think Bowden wants Walt to claim every Nats player next August, so the Nats can't trade anyone to a contender?

Do you mean to tell me that the Nats aren't going to be buyers at the trade deadline next year?

HokieRed
08-14-2008, 10:22 AM
A question: Do we actually know anything about which players are coming our way other than Buck? Is there any real reason to think Owings or Castillo or anybody else is one of the players? I mean a reason other than some "source" says so--all of which is obviously about as reliable as some of the "sources" quoted here on RZ from time to time.

Chip R
08-14-2008, 10:24 AM
You mean the Cincinnati media totally fabricated something in order to make everyone's favorite villian (Bowden) look bad? You mean Bowden doesn't sit around obsessed all day with trying to screw over the Reds?

It amazes me the blatant falsehoods the Reds media get away with. Bowden was "over" the Reds a long time ago. I suspected this report of Bowden claiming Owings was wrong.


Not that I'm a big fan of JimBo but I'm inclined to believe that the Nats didn't do this to block the trade. After Aug 1, players are put on waivers all the time. While it's true some teams claim a guy to block another team from taking him, those are usually high profile players not minor leaguers. It's been said that this Rizzo fellow drafted Owings so it would make sense that if he saw his name on the waiver wire, he'd try to pick him up and perhaps AZ would let them have him. And who knows when Owings was claimed. It might have been before the Dunn trade went down. Even if it happened afterwards, how did they know Owings was a PTBNL? I think it's just the Cincinnati media wanting something to write and talk about and who better than one of their favorite boogeymen, JimBo?

princeton
08-14-2008, 10:31 AM
Not that I'm a big fan of JimBo but I'm inclined to believe that the Nats didn't do this to block the trade. After Aug 1, players are put on waivers all the time. While it's true some teams claim a guy to block another team from taking him, those are usually high profile players not minor leaguers. It's been said that this Rizzo fellow drafted Owings so it would make sense that if he saw his name on the waiver wire, he'd try to pick him up and perhaps AZ would let them have him. And who knows when Owings was claimed. It might have been before the Dunn trade went down. Even if it happened afterwards, how did they know Owings was a PTBNL? I think it's just the Cincinnati media wanting something to write and talk about and who better than one of their favorite boogeymen, JimBo?

Jimbo is happy to block any trades, not Cincy's in particular

jojo
08-14-2008, 10:44 AM
What disadvantage is there for the Reds as a result of Micah being claimed/pulled back?

NJReds
08-14-2008, 10:45 AM
Jimbo is happy to block any trades, not Cincy's in particular

I was listening to ESPN Radio the other morning and they were discussing the "waiver block." Apparently there was a gentleman's agreement not to block waiver deals, but that changed in part because Steve Phillips began to put in multiple waiver claims to stop players from being traded to the Braves, his main rival when he was the Mets GM.

lollipopcurve
08-14-2008, 10:46 AM
What disadvantage is there for the Reds as a result of Micah being claimed/pulled back?

He would remain under the control of a team that will be competing against him.

fearofpopvol1
08-14-2008, 10:47 AM
What disadvantage is there for the Reds as a result of Micah being claimed/pulled back?

Depends on how lingering the injury is. If he's healthy before the season is over, I would think the advantage would be to get a good look at him before the season is up on our home turf. Not only that, but getting to meet with teammates and coaches and becoming familiar with the organization now doesn't seem like a bad idea.

Chip R
08-14-2008, 10:50 AM
Jimbo is happy to block any trades, not Cincy's in particular


I'm sure you're right but it's a dangerous game to play. In this case I think it's hyperbole.

jojo
08-14-2008, 10:55 AM
He would remain under the control of a team that will be competing against him.

The Reds aren't competing with anyone at this point. How does waiting several weeks for Micah damage them?

jojo
08-14-2008, 10:58 AM
Depends on how lingering the injury is. If he's healthy before the season is over, I would think the advantage would be to get a good look at him before the season is up on our home turf. Not only that, but getting to meet with teammates and coaches and becoming familiar with the organization now doesn't seem like a bad idea.

The Reds can get a good idea about him through scouts (presumably they already have). Being able to touch him is nice, but I don't see not being able to touch him as a significant blow to the Reds.

I'm not sure the people he'll meet in August will be the same ones he'll be meeting in April....

lollipopcurve
08-14-2008, 11:01 AM
The Reds aren't competing with anyone at this point. How does waiting several weeks for Micah damage them?

Baseball doesn't end in 2008.

Sea Ray
08-14-2008, 11:14 AM
It amazes me the blatant falsehoods the Reds media get away with. Bowden was "over" the Reds a long time ago. I suspected this report of Bowden claiming Owings was wrong.


Let's get specific. Who threw this rumor out in the Cin media? Was is C Trent? Fay?

fearofpopvol1
08-14-2008, 11:17 AM
The Reds can get a good idea about him through scouts (presumably they already have). Being able to touch him is nice, but I don't see not being able to touch him as a significant blow to the Reds.

I'm not sure the people he'll meet in August will be the same ones he'll be meeting in April....

I don't think it would be a significant loss if he wasn't able to join the club unless he is healthy and able to play, which is still a possibility at this point.

jojo
08-14-2008, 11:49 AM
Baseball doesn't end in 2008.

I'm not sure how that effects the impact of having to wait until the off season o complete this hypothetical trade....

lollipopcurve
08-14-2008, 12:24 PM
I'm not sure how that effects the impact of having to wait until the off season o complete this hypothetical trade....

Let's say he's injured, as reported. Who's more likely to give him the best care possible, the Reds, or a team that will be playing against the Reds down the road? It's simple conflict of interest. If the teams have agreed on Owings, and he's hurt, MLB needs to help them work out a way the Reds' interests will be met/protected while he remains under Dbacks control.

jojo
08-14-2008, 12:36 PM
Let's say he's injured, as reported. Who's more likely to give him the best care possible, the Reds, or a team that will be playing against the Reds down the road? It's simple conflict of interest. If the teams have agreed on Owings, and he's hurt, MLB needs to help them work out a way the Reds' interests will be met/protected while he remains under Dbacks control.

Personally, I wouldn't do business with an organization that would throw a player under the bus by cavalierly disregarding his health.

Even so, basically, a 5 week wait would just mean delaying a decision as to whether to have surgery or not and frankly, if a deal is made in principle, the Reds could request that Micah be shut down or basically get the care they think is necessary.

So really, the above issue is a non issue.

RedlegJake
08-14-2008, 12:38 PM
Personally, I wouldn't do business with an organization that would throw a player under the bus by cavalierly disregarding his health.

Even so, basically, a 5 week wait would just mean delaying a decision as to whether to have surgery or not and frankly, if a deal is made in principle, the Reds could request that Micah be shut down or basically get the care they think is necessary.

So really, the above issue is a non issue.


I agree. The DBacks aren't going to risk Micah's health in any way shape or form. In fact, they'll probably be more careful just because of the possible ramifications if they did something that hurt him.

lollipopcurve
08-14-2008, 12:51 PM
Even so, basically, a 5 week wait would just mean delaying a decision as to whether to have surgery or not and frankly, if a deal is made in principle, the Reds could request that Micah be shut down or basically get the care they think is necessary.

So really, the above issue is a non issue.

It's hardly a non-issue since it requires that the Diamondbacks do what the Reds want. If Owings is hurt, this may require lots of medical attention -- and 1.5 months is a significant period of time if we're talking about surgery/significant rehab -- perhaps requiring a lot of one-on-one attention with a team trainer. It's not just a matter of politesse -- real work and dollars are required.

What about if he's healthy and someone claims him, leaving him under AZ control? You think the teams just kind of shake hands and the Dbacks agree to "do what's right"? What if the Reds want him to work on a changeup? Or be in the lineup twice a week? Or close games instead of starting? What if the Dbacks want him up in September to spot start?

It's unworkable. That's why PTBNLs should not be named before they can be traded.

RedsManRick
08-14-2008, 12:53 PM
I was listening to ESPN Radio the other morning and they were discussing the "waiver block." Apparently there was a gentleman's agreement not to block waiver deals, but that changed in part because Steve Phillips began to put in multiple waiver claims to stop players from being traded to the Braves, his main rival when he was the Mets GM.

I think it's fair game to block a trade of major leaguers to a contender. That's completely legitimate. But when you start blocking trades of minor leaguers to teams out of contention, that's just bush league. The only purpose that serves is to be p.i.t.a.