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improbus
08-13-2008, 11:23 AM
Let's call this the Dunn-Tracker thread.

Last night he hit 4th (are you taking notes Dusty) and went 1-3 with a double and a walk. Good start for Dunner. But, here is the best part, from the AP game report.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=280812127

"It felt good," Dunn said. "It's the first time I'd been a part of a win in a long time."

levydl
08-13-2008, 11:48 AM
He had 2 walks.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-13-2008, 12:16 PM
the reds won.. thanks to small ball and defense..

Nasty_Boy
08-13-2008, 12:36 PM
The Reds won because EV pitched like an All-Star again, and of course the 2 small ball HRs by BP and Javy.

levydl
08-13-2008, 12:43 PM
the reds won.. thanks to small ball and defense..

Hahaha. You kill me, man. First you divine that Dickerson's mistake in the OF (that ball in the 3rd should have been caught by a defensive whiz, heck, by an average OFer) was because of nerves. You'll make all the excuses for anyone else, huh, as long as you can try to make Dunn look bad. Of course, you know that Dickerson had one of those dreaded strikeouts you beat on Dunn for (he's had over 100 Ks this year already - against AAA pitching!), and left 4 on base.

Then you claim the Reds won by defense and small ball. Laughable.

They won because Volquez was pitching well and they were playing the Pirates, who suck about as much as the Reds.

And how'd we score our runs, by the way? 2 HRs and Corey Patterson had one of his 5 games a year where he actually does something at the plate.

Spare us your nonsense. You got what you wanted.

justincredible
08-13-2008, 12:48 PM
the reds won.. thanks to small ball and defense..


The Reds won because EV pitched like an All-Star again, and of course the 2 small ball HRs by BP and Javy.

Busted!

Caveman Techie
08-13-2008, 12:58 PM
the reds won.. thanks to small ball and defense..

So when did Homeruns become a part of "small ball"? If thats the case Dunn is the league leader in "small ball" homeruns :)

bgwilly31
08-13-2008, 01:04 PM
Hahaha. You kill me, man. First you divine that Dickerson's mistake in the OF (that ball in the 3rd should have been caught by a defensive whiz, heck, by an average OFer) was because of nerves. You'll make all the excuses for anyone else, huh, as long as you can try to make Dunn look bad. Of course, you know that Dickerson had one of those dreaded strikeouts you beat on Dunn for (he's had over 100 Ks this year already - against AAA pitching!), and left 4 on base.

Then you claim the Reds won by defense and small ball. Laughable.

They won because Volquez was pitching well and they were playing the Pirates, who suck about as much as the Reds.

And how'd we score our runs, by the way? 2 HRs and Corey Patterson had one of his 5 games a year where he actually does something at the plate.

Spare us your nonsense. You got what you wanted.

ahhhorrsepoo is walking away from this thread with his tail between his legs.

By by ahhhorsepooo. :cool:

-----------------------------------


I'll be rooting for the Diamondbacks.

I want them to get to the playoffs so i can watch Dunner again.

Hondo
08-13-2008, 01:09 PM
Hahaha. You kill me, man. First you divine that Dickerson's mistake in the OF (that ball in the 3rd should have been caught by a defensive whiz, heck, by an average OFer) was because of nerves. You'll make all the excuses for anyone else, huh, as long as you can try to make Dunn look bad. Of course, you know that Dickerson had one of those dreaded strikeouts you beat on Dunn for (he's had over 100 Ks this year already - against AAA pitching!), and left 4 on base.

Then you claim the Reds won by defense and small ball. Laughable.

They won because Volquez was pitching well and they were playing the Pirates, who suck about as much as the Reds.

And how'd we score our runs, by the way? 2 HRs and Corey Patterson had one of his 5 games a year where he actually does something at the plate.

Spare us your nonsense. You got what you wanted.

I agree... Pittsburgh sucks and Volquez pitched good against a team that's best 2 power hitters were Traded (Bay and Nady)...

This team has no real options in next years Free Agent market... No Premier pitchers to go in the Rotation so what? What What What are they going to do? This team has zero direction.... Bob C said Win now and Krivisky was fired.... Anyone know if the teams record is better under Krivisky or Jocketty? I don't want to look it up and I am sure someone else knows the answer...

improbus
08-13-2008, 01:36 PM
I agree... Pittsburgh sucks and Volquez pitched good against a team that's best 2 power hitters were Traded (Bay and Nady)...

This team has no real options in next years Free Agent market... No Premier pitchers to go in the Rotation so what? What What What are they going to do? This team has zero direction.... Bob C said Win now and Krivisky was fired.... Anyone know if the teams record is better under Krivisky or Jocketty? I don't want to look it up and I am sure someone else knows the answer...
I think this team is pointed in the right direction. when was the last time they had all of the following:
2 top of the rotation pitchers (Volquez and a healthy Harang)
1 up and coming fireballer (Cueto)
2 young offensive studs - (Bruce and Votto)
A closer and setup man (Cordero and Burton)

That is a solid core. They've begun cutting dead weight and huge contracts. I am excited about the Reds future.

BurgervilleBuck
08-13-2008, 01:39 PM
They've begun cutting dead weight and huge contracts. I am excited about the Reds future.
Ditto. It's these pains we feel now that will make it worth what we have later.

levydl
08-13-2008, 01:40 PM
I agree... Pittsburgh sucks and Volquez pitched good against a team that's best 2 power hitters were Traded (Bay and Nady)...

This team has no real options in next years Free Agent market... No Premier pitchers to go in the Rotation so what? What What What are they going to do? This team has zero direction.... Bob C said Win now and Krivisky was fired.... Anyone know if the teams record is better under Krivisky or Jocketty? I don't want to look it up and I am sure someone else knows the answer...

We were 9-12 when Krivsky was fired for a .428 winning percentage.

We are 53-67 now, so we've gone 44-55 since Krivsky was fired, for a .444 winning percentage.

Hondo
08-13-2008, 01:42 PM
We were 9-12 when Krivsky was fired for a .428 winning percentage.

We are 53-67 now, so we've gone 44-55 since Krivsky was fired, for a .444 winning percentage.

Thanks. So they are playing better. Wow...

bounty37h
08-13-2008, 02:55 PM
Thanks. So they are playing better. Wow...

So, you go walking through the woods, and see 2 piles of poo on the ground. One is stinky, steamy and fresh, flies circling around looking for dessert. the other pile is obviuosly older, it has turned crusty and grey and is breaking down into the earth around it. Are they not still both piles of poo?

Ahhhorsepoo
08-13-2008, 03:07 PM
Hahaha. You kill me, man. First you divine that Dickerson's mistake in the OF (that ball in the 3rd should have been caught by a defensive whiz, heck, by an average OFer) was because of nerves. You'll make all the excuses for anyone else, huh, as long as you can try to make Dunn look bad. Of course, you know that Dickerson had one of those dreaded strikeouts you beat on Dunn for (he's had over 100 Ks this year already - against AAA pitching!), and left 4 on base.

Then you claim the Reds won by defense and small ball. Laughable.

They won because Volquez was pitching well and they were playing the Pirates, who suck about as much as the Reds.

And how'd we score our runs, by the way? 2 HRs and Corey Patterson had one of his 5 games a year where he actually does something at the plate.

Spare us your nonsense. You got what you wanted.


where to start.. ohh my..

reds did win with small ball, with a few long balls sprinkled in(just because they played well and advanced the runners better than they have all year doesn't mean they cant hit the occasional long ball, but wait i thought all the power was gone from this team.....?!?!?!).. but they hit the gaps, and were a threat on the base path MULTIPLE TIMES.. and the defense saved EV at least 2 runs.. one by the catch by dickerson in the 2nd.. (i'll admit he should have caught at least one of the two balls he nearly got to..).. but also the one where he was going down the line and at least got a piece of it.. enough to make it shoot into the stands to save at least 1 run..

to be completely honest.. volquez missed more pitches than the score says.. he was just lucky the pirates blow.. go back and watch there were multiple pitches where the catcher would call for a fastball low and away.. and it would be up and in.... or a changeup mid away and it would be off the inside part of the plate..

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

Volquez pitched well, but the defense and the fact that the pirates are abysmal kept him in the game.. not just his pitching..

I also realize every player has some strikeouts.. but I dont expect dickerson to get the silver sombrero once a week either.. He left 4 on base.. BTW DUNN LEFT 3 ON TONIGHT..

I can argue all day on why the newer, non-lazy power swinging approach is much better.. and unfortunately the same few people still wont get it that i just want to watch winning baseball.. the old way didnt work.. soo you must change it..

levydl
08-13-2008, 05:22 PM
where to start.. ohh my..

reds did win with small ball, with a few long balls sprinkled in(just because they played well and advanced the runners better than they have all year doesn't mean they cant hit the occasional long ball, but wait i thought all the power was gone from this team.....?!?!?!).. but they hit the gaps, and were a threat on the base path MULTIPLE TIMES.. and the defense saved EV at least 2 runs.. one by the catch by dickerson in the 2nd.. (i'll admit he should have caught at least one of the two balls he nearly got to..).. but also the one where he was going down the line and at least got a piece of it.. enough to make it shoot into the stands to save at least 1 run..

to be completely honest.. volquez missed more pitches than the score says.. he was just lucky the pirates blow.. go back and watch there were multiple pitches where the catcher would call for a fastball low and away.. and it would be up and in.... or a changeup mid away and it would be off the inside part of the plate..

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

Volquez pitched well, but the defense and the fact that the pirates are abysmal kept him in the game.. not just his pitching..

I also realize every player has some strikeouts.. but I dont expect dickerson to get the silver sombrero once a week either.. He left 4 on base.. BTW DUNN LEFT 3 ON TONIGHT..

I can argue all day on why the newer, non-lazy power swinging approach is much better.. and unfortunately the same few people still wont get it that i just want to watch winning baseball.. the old way didnt work.. soo you must change it..

So your definition of small ball is advancing runners and then spinkling in a couple of HRs? You're using your own dictionary on that one. The Reds didn't win with small ball, the Reds scored their runs on HRs. For you to say otherwise is beyond dumb.

Volquez wasn't perfect, but he didn't need to be. His stuff was good enough to beat the lowly Pirates. The Pirates suck, I said that, that's why we won. Not because Dickerson made 1 of 2 catches. Not because we're all of a sudden a small ball team, as you say.

I too just want to watch winning baseball. I thought we should try to sign Dunn long term, but if we weren't, then I'm glad we got something for him (though we don't exactly know what yet). But don't try to tell me that since Dunn's gone and we beat the Pirates in one game we're all of a sudden a small ball team that's coming together. We got two small ball RBIs - from even a stopped clock is right twice a day Corey Patterson. The rest were from HRs. Same old way the Reds have done it all year, just now we're not as good at it as we were.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-13-2008, 05:29 PM
no i never said we were there yet.. but we did better with advancing runners and such and long balls will come every once in a while.. but we would have won without those 3 runs from the homers.. its few a far between games that we can say that for....

i never said it was a perfect example of small ball, but that we were using that to our advantage for once..

DannyB
08-13-2008, 05:43 PM
So, you go walking through the woods, and see 2 piles of poo on the ground. One is stinky, steamy and fresh, flies circling around looking for dessert. the other pile is obviuosly older, it has turned crusty and grey and is breaking down into the earth around it. Are they not still both piles of poo?

:clap:

Lockdwn11
08-13-2008, 05:52 PM
The Reds couldn't have hit two HRs last night! Don't they know Dunn was traded and all the power on this team went with him atleast thats what I have been hearing here at the Redszone so it had to be small ball. Right?

levydl
08-13-2008, 06:03 PM
no i never said we were there yet.. but we did better with advancing runners and such and long balls will come every once in a while.. but we would have won without those 3 runs from the homers.. its few a far between games that we can say that for....

i never said it was a perfect example of small ball, but that we were using that to our advantage for once..

The only thing that changed was Dickerson for Dunn.

How do you know they would have won without those HRs? They were the only runs the Reds scored until the 6th. Who knows what happens if they don't have an early lead.

They weren't playing small ball, they won because they got the lead on some HRs and Volquez pitched well against a garbage Pittsburgh team. Quit trying to make it into something it's nt.

texasdave
08-13-2008, 06:17 PM
Let's call this the Dunn-Tracker thread.

Last night he hit 4th (are you taking notes Dusty) and went 1-3 with a double and a walk. Good start for Dunner. But, here is the best part, from the AP game report.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=280812127

"It felt good," Dunn said. "It's the first time I'd been a part of a win in a long time."

No, the best part is the fact that Dunn would bring it up in the first place. During the Reds' recent August slide Dunn was 5 for 36. That works out to an inspiring .139 BA. If BA isn't your beverage of choice how about sipping from any one of these cups - .244 OBP or .167 SLG or .411 OPS? Refills, anyone? During the Reds' recent tumble Adam never scored a run and knocked home exactly none of the 20 baserunners that were on base when he came up to bat. Yes, Adam, it has been a long time since you left the field on the winning side. And you were a big part of that.

Fullboat
08-13-2008, 07:41 PM
No, the best part is the fact that Dunn would bring it up in the first place. During the Reds' recent August slide Dunn was 5 for 36. That works out to an inspiring .139 BA. If BA isn't your beverage of choice how about sipping from any one of these cups - .244 OBP or .167 SLG or .411 OPS? Refills, anyone? During the Reds' recent tumble Adam never scored a run and knocked home exactly none of the 20 baserunners that were on base when he came up to bat. Yes, Adam, it has been a long time since you left the field on the winning side. And you were a big part of that.

Nicely done and with Stats. :thumbup:

improbus
08-14-2008, 11:08 AM
Tough night for Dunner. 1 for 5 with 4 LOB including the final out with the D-Backs down 1 and the bases loaded.

Boston Red
08-14-2008, 11:58 AM
Tough night for Dunner. 1 for 5 with 4 LOB including the final out with the D-Backs down 1 and the bases loaded.


Not only that, but the Rockies issued an intentional pass in order to pitch to Dunn in that situation.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-14-2008, 12:04 PM
dunn is the great almighty.. Atlas Dunn.. he strikes soo much fear into the eyes of other pitchers......

has to be one of only a few times a year someone issues a free pass to pitch to the #4 hitter on a team.. HAHAHA

REDblooded
08-14-2008, 12:27 PM
Yup......... that move last night speaks VOLUMES about what people actually in the know about baseball think of the big dunner

Jack Burton
08-14-2008, 01:19 PM
Not too surprising that Dunn fails again in a huge situation. Good luck in AZ, rats off to ya.

ChatterRed
08-14-2008, 01:21 PM
Dunn is just tearing it up in 'Zona.

OesterPoster
08-14-2008, 05:37 PM
Bases loaded single today with 2 RBI so far.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-14-2008, 05:49 PM
but he also bobbled a ball for an error to negate yet another one of his RBI's....

justincredible
08-14-2008, 05:57 PM
Dunn is just tearing it up in 'Zona.

Yeah, those 2 and a half game sample sizes are great indications! :rolleyes:

bgwilly31
08-14-2008, 05:59 PM
i never said it was a perfect example of small ball, but that we were using that to our advantage for once..

But you did say it was the reds BEST example of small ball all year. Which i will also have to completely disagree with you on. Its actually far from the best example this year.


Tough night for Dunner. 1 for 5 with 4 LOB including the final out with the D-Backs down 1 and the bases loaded.

ohhh ouch. Sounds like us.


but he also bobbled a ball for an error to negate yet another one of his RBI's....

Ouch again.

BLEEDS
08-14-2008, 06:02 PM
Yep, now he's only batting .500 with the Bases Loaded for Arizona...

and he got intentionally walked with Runners on 2nd and 3rd - STUPID Dunn and his deciding to take a walk instead of getting a hit in that situation!!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Nasty_Boy
08-14-2008, 07:02 PM
but he also bobbled a ball for an error to negate yet another one of his RBI's....

It didn't cost Zona a run. An error does not equal a run scored. And if so, then his diving catch in the 8th gives him the RBI back.

You truely amaze me!

Ahhhorsepoo
08-15-2008, 03:31 AM
how did that not cost them a run.. the double next up scored the runner from second.. his diving catch... most of'ers make that catch standing up..

Caveman Techie
08-15-2008, 09:28 AM
but he also bobbled a ball for an error to negate yet another one of his RBI's....

Uhh, all runs scored by Colorodo were Earned runs. So how does his error that did not lead to a run being scored negate an RBI?

Caveman Techie
08-15-2008, 09:33 AM
how did that not cost them a run.. the double next up scored the runner from second.. his diving catch... most of'ers make that catch standing up..

Because the error only allowed the runner to advance to second base, it was not an out play to begin with.

improbus
08-15-2008, 09:59 AM
1-4 with 2 RBI's, 1 walk and an error. If that doesn't sound like a Dunn line, I don't know what else would.

Lockdwn11
08-15-2008, 01:10 PM
Dunn is just tearing it up in 'Zona.

His OPS is .733 is that tearing it up?:rolleyes:

Nasty_Boy
08-15-2008, 01:13 PM
3 flipping games. He has 2 singles, 1 double, 2 RBI, 4 walks, and 4 or 5 Ks... Nice sample size.

justincredible
08-15-2008, 02:08 PM
3 flipping games. He has 2 singles, 1 double, 2 RBI, 4 walks, and 4 or 5 Ks... Nice sample size.

Lol. The Dunn haters amaze me sometimes.

Ahhhorsepoo
08-15-2008, 02:11 PM
the dunn lovers dont? ohh my...

Lockdwn11
08-15-2008, 03:23 PM
3 flipping games. He has 2 singles, 1 double, 2 RBI, 4 walks, and 4 or 5 Ks... Nice sample size.

I agree, It was just a reply to the poster who said he was tearing it up. I have seen enough of Dunn in cinn. to know what/who he is without those stats from his three games in Ari

DannyB
08-17-2008, 01:17 PM
Last night-2/2 with 3 walks

justincredible
08-17-2008, 01:20 PM
Dunn with a .520 OBP and .333 BA in Arizona. His teammates have started talking about the "Dunn effect" as the reason their offense has started to explode.

BLEEDS
08-17-2008, 01:26 PM
meanwhile our team had 10 hits - 2 home runs, 8 singles - and scored 3 runs.

So much for "Small Ball"...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

DTCromer
08-17-2008, 03:57 PM
meanwhile our team had 10 hits - 2 home runs, 8 singles - and scored 3 runs.

So much for "Small Ball"...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Haha. . . .and you believe Rome was built in a day.

Are Reds fans this dumb?

Give Dunn until the end of the season and we'll see his numbers.

BLEEDS
08-17-2008, 07:06 PM
Are Reds fans this dumb?


Yes, the average Reds fan would rather have 8 singles than 2 home runs + a hit or two.

That's what we've got - on a GREAT day.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

LouisvilleCARDS
08-17-2008, 08:00 PM
Wow, what does it flipping matter what he does now? So I guess you're going to have two sides here - one rooting for him to "prove" Reds management made some sort of mistake, one side hoping he screws up to prove them right.

Either way, his time here is done. Him staying wouldn't make a bit of difference this season. I hope he does well there, but that doesn't prove Reds management wrong for trading him.

CWRed
08-18-2008, 09:29 PM
the dunn lovers dont? ohh my...

Hey Dusty Junior...give the Dunn-hating a rest. You got your way. Dunn is a much better player than you give him credit for and one of the most durable and toughest guys in the game. He also is probably a little over-valued by a few here. But he is truly one of the most undeservedly piled upon athletes in the game today. Just stop. Your words are tiring.

improbus
08-18-2008, 10:53 PM
If the NL Central hadn't improved so much, the Reds might have been able to keep Dunn and go after one or two guys. But the Brewers, Cubs, and Cards were too good for the below average Reds to catch. They needed to go a different route. Spending $15 mil out of a $75 million dollar budget on a LF'er didn't make sense when you need a C, SS, CF, and a starter, all more critical positions.

Betterread
08-18-2008, 11:39 PM
I think this team is pointed in the right direction. when was the last time they had all of the following:
2 top of the rotation pitchers (Volquez and a healthy Harang)
1 up and coming fireballer (Cueto)
2 young offensive studs - (Bruce and Votto)
A closer and setup man (Cordero and Burton)

That is a solid core. They've begun cutting dead weight and huge contracts. I am excited about the Reds future.

I don't enjoy puncturing your optimism, but I just don't see what it is based on.
We don't have two top of the rotation pitchers. When a team can boast this talent, it gives the club confidence that 40%. Harang is not top of the rotation. And the argument that when he is healthy he is a #1 or 2 is revisionist. He is what he is at this time. Volquez is having a top starter year, but he needs to follow it up with another year or two before he is a legitimate #1 or 2.
Cueto has a plus fastball, but he does not have a plus plus (elite) fastball. If he did he wouldn't give up the jacks he does. You don't give up that many homers with an elite fastball.
Bruce is a potential stud. Our only one. Votto is not even close to Bruce. I like his work rate, and I think the club should keep him, but he's above average, not exceptional.
Cordero was a waste of money. Burton is injured. The bullpen is mediocre, despite efforts to improve it.

Our core is Bruce, Phillips, Cueto, Volquez, Encarnacion, and Bray. That's not good enough for me.

Rob387
08-19-2008, 12:56 PM
does anyone know for sure who the 3rd player in the Dunn deal is going to be?

Nasty_Boy
08-19-2008, 01:28 PM
It's Buck, Owings, and Castillo

BLEEDS
08-19-2008, 01:58 PM
It's Buck, Owings, and Castillo

So:

A Defensive-minded young catcher
A Tommy John recovering A baller with tons of potential
A Rick-Ankiel-light possibility.

The catcher is the most major-league ready - albeit stick-less.

Buck is as useful as a comp pick IMO, since he won't be in the majors anytime soon, if at all, so no better than a high draft pick - sans the signing bonus.

To me, it all hinges on Owings.
If he can return to his 4.3 ERA/1.3 WHIP than he's useful in the short-term for us, which makes it a better deal than 2 comp picks.

PEACE

-BLEEDS