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GAC
08-16-2008, 07:29 AM
I was browsing through various baseball (scouting) sites this morning, and caught this on Baker by Jayson Stark...

http://www.mylot.com/nr/viewframe.aspx?id=1030995&url=http%3a%2f%2fredlegnation.com%2f2008%2f08%2f15 %2fblame-dusty-baker%2f&type=Blog


We've heard some buzzing lately, among baseball men, scouts and players, about a recent Dusty Baker quote on the Reds' troubles that sure looked like an attempt to absolve himself of all blame. "I have never wanted to win more than I do right here, and I will," Baker told the Dayton Daily News' Hal McCoy. "But this is Wayne Krivsky's team, not Walt Jocketty's and not mine. I just hope there is enough out there after the season that we can get to help us."
Maybe we're not reading that right. But if we're misinterpreting it, suffice it to say we're not the only ones. And it appears Baker is saying that the Reds' disappointing record is his players' fault, and his former GM's fault, but not his own or his current GM's doing. Well, obviously, Jocketty is only now beginning to put his stamp on this roster. And the players haven't exactly overachieved. But doesn't the manager bear some responsibility for this mess, too? Scouts who have followed the Reds continually talk about their messy execution, their mediocre defense and their distinct lack of energy. There also has been plenty of second-guessing of Baker's lineup choices (particularly those 242 at-bats Corey Patterson has gotten). And there is no shortage of people wondering whether Aaron Harang's forearm injury -- along with his 1-6, 8.49 slide in the past 2 months -- might be a direct result of Baker's decision to allow him to throw 63 pitches in relief on two days' rest in a May 25 18-inning game, then start him on three days' rest immediately afterward. Dusty Baker has many admirable traits. And this is not an attempt to heap all the blame on him. We're just saying that when teams like this fall apart, it's everybody's fault -- including the manager's.


I'm no Baker fan obviously.

But my point in posting the above is not an attempt to rail on Dusty either. There is plenty of blame to go around. And yes, that also includes Krivsky.

And I have liked the moves that Jocketty has started to make. I believe it's just the beginning, and more is to come.

I agree with calling up Hanigan (but he is 28), and Dickerson (does he now go by CDick?)

I've started to "warm" to the players Walt got in return for Dunn. I'm glad we signed Alonso, and I'm impressed with the signing of those kids from Venezuela. It really appears that we are moving towards a "youth movement". Maybe that means that Walt sat Bob C down, pulled the phone jack out of the wall, and told him to stay away from any mikes, and convinced him that this team is not going to win now so "Shut Up!.

My "expectations" going into the '08 season was not one of making the post-season. I say that because I didn't see it as a reality. I saw it more of a year of taking one more step, meaning one of development and getting young players, like Volquez, Cueto, Bruce, Votto, and even Bailey more exposure at the ML. And at the conclusion of this season, they were not only going to get a clearer picture of these young players (what they have/have not); but that would be coupled with further cleaning off of the dross (players/contracts).

IMHO, the culmination of the '08 season (and the above), puts this team at a vital stage to really move this organization forward. And no, I don't mean that to be we can make the post-season in '09. I don't see how anyone can say (or believe) that when they look at the direction Walt is taking this team? It's not about an immediate turn around, but trying to build on what we already have. But I hope no one is getting their hopes up in that sense (looking towards the '09 season). But I don't think it's being unfair to say that we had better start seeing some vast improvement from the '09 team.

And it has appeared to me that Bob C wanted a guy like Jocketty, who has a solid resume, to be making those decisions. And I'm fine with that. I'm fully behind Walt.

Walt is now putting his "fingerprints" (or should I say fist) on this team/organization. He is making it "his" team.

But that brings me now back to Dusty Baker. ;)

At what point (or stage) does it become Dusty's team? Or do you believe it is already? It is his team in the sense he is the manager. But as much as I don't care for the guy, I have tried to maintain some objectivity in '08 because, for the most part, he has had to "play the cards dealt him". Yes, it appears he was very instrumental in bringing guys like Cordero, Patterson, and Hairston to this team. And I haven't, for the most part, agreed with the way he has "played those cards" during the season. That "glimpse" of Dusty's approach to the game has caused a few more gray hairs to sprout. But I guess that is better then pulling them out.

But is it far to assume that with the various personnel changes taking place - as well as any future ones that may come down in the off-season (which I assume Baker (and Bavasi) will be involved in - that the '09 season will be a very "telling" one for Baker as a manager? Baker, from looking at his two previous managerial stints, doesn't have much experience in building with youth. Is he the man for the job?

After the Jr and Dunn trade I listened to a guy on a radio talk show say that "The era of the walk and 3 run homer is dead in Cincy. With Baker you are going to see a more aggressive team, built on speed, defensive, and a small ball approach (get'em on, get'em over, and get'em in)."

I kinda laughed at the remark; but do you see that as transpiring, moving in that direction EVEN MORE, with Baker at the helm in '09?

hebroncougar
08-16-2008, 07:32 AM
Dusty will say it is his team when and if they ever win. It will even change from night to night, and week to week. That's how he works.

Redhook
08-16-2008, 07:55 AM
Is he the man for the job?



Of course he's not the man for the job. He has no common sense. He doesn't understand baseball 101 principles like lineup construction and on-base percentage. IMO, he's a terrible manager.

I'm glad Stark wrote this article. It's good to get some response from the media outside of Cincinnati on Dusty's performance. What a poor thing to say by a manager. And to throw Wayne under the bus as well. You just don't do that.

Wheelhouse
08-16-2008, 08:25 AM
Of course he's not the man for the job. He has no common sense. He doesn't understand baseball 101 principles like lineup construction and on-base percentage. IMO, he's a terrible manager.

I'm glad Stark wrote this article. It's good to get some response from the media outside of Cincinnati on Dusty's performance. What a poor thing to say by a manager. And to throw Wayne under the bus as well. You just don't do that.

And to throw Wayne under the bus after he supported Dusty when he left. I think good ole Dusty of the Hank Aaron yarns should remember he's a part of Wayne's team too.

Rounding Third
08-16-2008, 08:49 AM
I remember reading a Sporting News recently that had a ton of polls from players and people like that asking who was the best manager, best hitter etc. After I read best manager I quickly scanned the next several pages wanting to see the worst manager. Unfortunatly it wasn't there, I just wanted to see Dusty Baker's name at number one and see that outside of Reds Country people know the idiocy.

This article made me smile.

GAC
08-16-2008, 11:05 AM
When I was browsing this morning I found this link to a discussion on Baker (and Patterson) on the Cubs board from a few weeks ago. Some hilarious stuff!

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=messages&webtag=ml-cubs&tid=332147

RedsManRick
08-16-2008, 11:40 AM
Dusty will say it is his team when and if they ever win. It will even change from night to night, and week to week. That's how he works.

Yep.

MWM
08-16-2008, 11:51 AM
Dusty accepted the job with the roster as it was. He did that because he thought he could win with it. He pretty much said as much when he took the job. His comments are bush league and typical Dusty Baker.

oneupper
08-16-2008, 12:49 PM
When I was browsing this morning I found this link to a discussion on Baker (and Patterson) on the Cubs board from a few weeks ago. Some hilarious stuff!

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=messages&webtag=ml-cubs&tid=332147

Cubbies have a "traderumor" too...:D. Apparently some brain cells were lost in the cloning of our "traderumor".

MartyFan
08-16-2008, 04:47 PM
Good post...Honestly, when it looked like Krivsky was going to keep some vets around to pepper in with the rookies, I thought Dusty COULD be a decent fit for this team but I always wished they would have held onto Mac...now he is in the Yankees fold and we have what we have...I am not wanting to throw Dusty under the bus but I do not believe he is a good enough manager for the talent this organization is putting together and the stage that that talent is at.

GAC
08-16-2008, 07:32 PM
Cubbies have a "traderumor" too...:D

I noticed that too. Unless it's our traderumor posting over there. ;)

RFS62
08-16-2008, 07:35 PM
Yeah, that was pretty bush to say those things about Krivsky.