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jesusfan
08-16-2008, 09:42 AM
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

An obvious question surrounds where Alonso will play once he reaches the Majors. The Reds already have a young rookie first baseman in Joey Votto.

"He played first most of the time at Miami, but Miami had a good third baseman," Buckley said. "We think he can play third base. He can definitely play first. He may be able to play third."

During his junior season at Miami, Alonso batted .370 with 24 home runs and 72 RBIs.

This was part of the Alonso signing article... I definitely like the idea, Edwin has soured in my eyes and I think he may have soured with the reds front office also... If only Alonso goes down and knocks the cover off the baseball and has a tremendous spring training maybe we have our 3rd basemen starting around July of next year.... He would definitely be a much needed boost of power on the team... Phillips, Bruce, Votto, and Alonso surrounded around whatever Free agent we make a play for could really turn this team around... However, he is young.. but because he is a seasoned college player I have hope that this will happen.. Ryan Braun played for the Brewers and tore it up when he was 23 and Alonso will be 22 in April.

Rounding Third
08-16-2008, 09:46 AM
Everything that I have read, besides that, says he can play nowhere except 1B and a mediocre 1B at that. I think we see Votto in LF before we see Alonso at 3B.

icehole3
08-16-2008, 10:41 AM
I agree Votto is more likely to move somewhere else, but Alonso hitting cleanup would be nice.

lollipopcurve
08-16-2008, 10:42 AM
I don't see the 3rd base thing at all. I thought Votto looked passable in his few games in left last year, so maybe he will move. For 09 at least, I think you'll see both at 1B. Neither guy has proved indispensable yet, so I'd keep them at their best defensive position and let them focus on developing their best tool -- the bat.

jesusfan
08-16-2008, 10:58 AM
I agree too about the Votto to left and Alonso at 1st move... If that happens do you see Edwin staying at 3rd or being moved, Frazier may or may not be ready and I'm not sold on Keppinger.. He will provide adequate defense at 3rd, but his stick has really went downhill, maybe it's just effects from the injury.... What do you guys think?

Sea Ray
08-16-2008, 11:20 AM
I agree too about the Votto to left and Alonso at 1st move... If that happens do you see Edwin staying at 3rd or being moved, Frazier may or may not be ready and I'm not sold on Keppinger.. He will provide adequate defense at 3rd, but his stick has really went downhill, maybe it's just effects from the injury.... What do you guys think?

I still think Kepp is a fine hitter. He's starting to come around now. Before his injury he was arguably the Reds best offensive player. I think he'll regroup over the winter and go back to being an over .300 hitter with nary a strikeout.

Superdude
08-16-2008, 01:55 PM
Votto-left...Alonso-first...EdE/Frazier-third

Unless Alonso's a whole lot more athletic than he leads on, wouldn't Votto be much more passable in left than Alonso would be at third?

Blue
08-16-2008, 02:26 PM
Votto was terrible in LF last season. A noticeable defensive dropoff from Dunn.

NorrisHopper30
08-16-2008, 03:11 PM
Everything that I have read, besides that, says he can play nowhere except 1B and a mediocre 1B at that. I think we see Votto in LF before we see Alonso at 3B.

He plays an above average 1b. Where are you guys hearing he plays a mediocre 1b?

Steve4192
08-16-2008, 03:28 PM
"He played first most of the time at Miami, but Miami had a good third baseman,"

Ryan Braun played for the Brewers and tore it up when he was 23 and Alonso will be 22 in April.

Ryan Braun is an atrocious defensive third baseman, and Miami opted to move Alonso rather than move Braun. That tells me all I need to know about this 3B experiment with Alonso.

Yonder has good hands and solid defensive fundamentals but his range and arm strength, while solid for a 1B, are well below average for a 3B. The Reds should leave him at the position where he has a chance to excel rather than trying to shoehorn him into a position where there is a slight chance he might prove to be barely adequate.

Grande Donkey
08-16-2008, 03:29 PM
Ryan Braun is an atrocious defensive third baseman, and Miami opted to move Alonso rather than move Braun. That tells me all I need to know about this 3B experiment with Alonso.

Yonder has good hands and solid defensive fundamentals but his range and arm strength, while solid for a 1B, are well below average for a 3B. The Reds should leave him at the position where he has a chance to excel rather than trying to shoehorn him into a position where there is a slight chance he might prove to be barely adequate.Braun was gone when Alonso was at Miami.

Steve4192
08-16-2008, 03:30 PM
Braun was gone when Alonso was at Miami.

I thought Braun was there his freshman year.

redsof72
08-16-2008, 03:40 PM
I talked to a scout at length about Alonso about a week ago who had seen him play several times. He compared him some to Brett Wallace, the player the Cardinals drafted out of Arizona State. He told me Alonso was definitely below average defensively at first base and that there was no way he could play anywhere else, but he said Alonso would be the best hitting prospect in the organization the day he signed.

Grande Donkey
08-16-2008, 03:42 PM
I thought Braun was there his freshman year.Braun was drafted in 05. Alonso's freshman season was 06.

Falls City Beer
08-16-2008, 03:43 PM
Trade Votto before the shine comes off.

Degenerate39
08-16-2008, 05:02 PM
Put Votto in left. Alonso at 1st and keep EE at 3rd until Frazier is with the Reds.

RedlegJake
08-16-2008, 05:17 PM
I think I agree with FCB. If Yonder can only play first then I'd put Joey on the block and at least see what offers you'd get.

OnBaseMachine
08-16-2008, 05:27 PM
If the Reds can get another young stud starting pitcher or a young SS then I'd deal Votto for one of those pieces, if not I'd hang on to him. I like Votto a lot, he's never going to be a superstar but I think he'll settle in as a .875 OPS type of hitter.

Caveat Emperor
08-16-2008, 05:27 PM
Trade Votto before the shine comes off.

At that point, the Reds best offensive strategy might be stand in the batters box without swinging and attempt to bore opposing pitchers to death.

Raisor
08-16-2008, 05:33 PM
If the Reds can get another young stud starting pitcher or a young SS then I'd deal Votto for one of those pieces, if not I'd hang on to him. I like Votto a lot, he's never going to be a superstar but I think he'll settle in as a .875 OPS type of hitter.

Yeah, I'd move him for the right haul for sure.

If they did though, they'd need to bring in another Canadian. All teams should have at least one Canadian.

kpresidente
08-17-2008, 12:24 PM
IF Alonso could play 3rd, and IF he becomes a great hitter, I think you have to trade EE, because the big bat at 3rd is more valuable than one at 1st or LF.

PuffyPig
08-17-2008, 01:41 PM
If the Reds can get another young stud starting pitcher or a young SS then I'd deal Votto for one of those pieces, if not I'd hang on to him. I like Votto a lot, he's never going to be a superstar but I think he'll settle in as a .875 OPS type of hitter.


WIW, .875 OPS first basemen don't grow on trees.

It would put him 4th in the NL, 9th in the majors (with 4 of the 8 above him only marginally so).

Kingspoint
08-17-2008, 05:23 PM
.

"He played first most of the time at Miami, but Miami had a good third baseman," Buckley said. "We think he can play third base. He can definitely play first. He may be able to play third."




Buckley who?

redsmetz
08-17-2008, 07:23 PM
Buckley who?

Chris Buckley, Reds scouting director.

kentjett
08-17-2008, 07:58 PM
Phillips has plenty of range to switch to SS, he is smooth when it comes to fielding the ball. We have too many really good hitting prospects that don't have the range to play anything other than 2nd or 3rd. Frazier and Valaika are two similiar players and they will be up before too long. Their bats are too good to leave down for 2 more years. Soto is young but I think he'll make significant progress through our system in the next 2 years. If we don't trade any of them guys, we'll have to deal Phillips or move him to short. I don't think it is a stretch to say that Frazier, Valaika, Soto, Alonso will be in the bigs and I also think Fransisco could join that list as well if he can make a couple of adjustments. That is way too many infielders w/ really good bats and average too below average defense. They need to make some really tough decisions before too long.

mth123
08-17-2008, 08:05 PM
Phillips has plenty of range to switch to SS, he is smooth when it comes to fielding the ball. We have too many really good hitting prospects that don't have the range to play anything other than 2nd or 3rd. Frazier and Valaika are two similiar players and they will be up before too long. Their bats are too good to leave down for 2 more years. Soto is young but I think he'll make significant progress through our system in the next 2 years. If we don't trade any of them guys, we'll have to deal Phillips or move him to short. I don't think it is a stretch to say that Frazier, Valaika, Soto, Alonso will be in the bigs and I also think Fransisco could join that list as well if he can make a couple of adjustments. That is way too many infielders w/ really good bats and average too below average defense. They need to make some really tough decisions before too long.

Trade Valaika, Francisco and Stubbs among others to get a real SS of the future.

RedlegJake
08-17-2008, 09:24 PM
Trade Valaika, Francisco and Stubbs among others to get a real SS of the future.

How far in the future? Junior Arias is supposedly a slick fielder who can also hit but even if he is the real deal it'll be oh...5 or 6 years minimum. I agree SS is a problem - even in AGon can play next year he's aging fast and there's no one beyond him. Also forgot about Cozart who has started hitting a bit this year.

Benihana
08-18-2008, 01:06 AM
Could Votto possibly play 3B? I know he was drafted originally as a C/3B, so maybe he could play there while EdE moves to LF? Not sure if it's feasible, but just a thought

camisadelgolf
08-18-2008, 01:23 AM
Could Votto possibly play 3B? I know he was drafted originally as a C/3B, so maybe he could play there while EdE moves to LF? Not sure if it's feasible, but just a thought

He's having a hard enough time at first base. I think the Reds are better off with Edwin Encarnacion staying there.

Brian
08-20-2008, 01:54 PM
Trying to move Votto to third is pretty silly, he might be serviceable in left, but really, he doe the least damage defensively at first and is still young, with the opportunity to get better. At third, you know what you get with EE. He's not very good defensively and shows flashes of offensive potential. He's with the Reds probably until they have a young replacement. I think you need to fill the position with a true 3B, trying to re-purpose Alonso, who BTW hasn't swung a bat yet in professional baseball, or Votto, seems like a waste of breath.

dougdirt
08-20-2008, 02:07 PM
Trying to move Votto to third is pretty silly, he might be serviceable in left, but really, he doe the least damage defensively at first and is still young, with the opportunity to get better. At third, you know what you get with EE. He's not very good defensively and shows flashes of offensive potential. He's with the Reds probably until they have a young replacement. I think you need to fill the position with a true 3B, trying to re-purpose Alonso, who BTW hasn't swung a bat yet in professional baseball, or Votto, seems like a waste of breath.

At this point, I am willing to think its in the cards that EE goes to LF and maybe an Adam Rosales plays 3B next year. I could certainly see that playing out.

Brian
08-20-2008, 03:28 PM
I have no problem with that in theory, but Rosales has a lot to do in order to show that he can play every day at this level. He's probably a full season of part time play away from making that statement.

dougdirt
08-20-2008, 03:32 PM
I have no problem with that in theory, but Rosales has a lot to do in order to show that he can play every day at this level. He's probably a full season of part time play away from making that statement.

Only if the Reds want it that way. You can't show you can play every day until someone lets you play every day.

RedsManRick
08-20-2008, 03:36 PM
Only if the Reds want it that way. You can't show you can play every day until someone lets you play every day.

Exactly. Might as well start the experiment sooner rather than later. I would not at all oppose a EE-LF, Rosales-3B, Dickerson-CF lineup starting tonight.

Spring~Fields
08-21-2008, 03:49 PM
Exactly. Might as well start the experiment sooner rather than later. I would not at all oppose a EE-LF, Rosales-3B, Dickerson-CF lineup starting tonight.
:clap:

doug wrote:Only if the Reds want it that way. You can't show you can play every day until someone lets you play every day.

:clap:

Spring~Fields
08-21-2008, 09:31 PM
Will Alonso play with any minor league team yet this year, or is it too late?

OnBaseMachine
08-21-2008, 09:36 PM
Will Alonso play with any minor league team yet this year, or is it too late?

He's supposed to play a couple games with the GCL Reds and then head to High-A Sarasota for the last few games.

Spring~Fields
08-22-2008, 01:36 AM
He's supposed to play a couple games with the GCL Reds and then head to High-A Sarasota for the last few games.

Thanks OBM

Kingspoint
08-22-2008, 09:22 AM
Votto-left...Alonso-first...EdE/Frazier-third

Unless Alonso's a whole lot more athletic than he leads on, wouldn't Votto be much more passable in left than Alonso would be at third?

That's my scenario.

Sea Ray
08-22-2008, 11:16 AM
Reds fans are complaining daily about EE's defense at 3rd and that a defense/pitching oriented team can't afford him at 3rd. I seriously doubt that this Alonzo kid could ever be better than EE at 3rd so why is there so much talk about moving him? I've read the scouting reports on him and I've seen him on TV during the CWS. He's a 1B or a DH. We either move Joey to LF or we use Alonzo as trade bait. Don't waste the energy on a 3rd base experiment. I like the leadership intangibles that I see in Votto so I'd like to keep him around.

princeton
08-22-2008, 11:29 AM
Reds fans are complaining daily about EE's defense at 3rd and that a defense/pitching oriented team can't afford him at 3rd. I seriously doubt that this Alonzo kid could ever be better than EE at 3rd so why is there so much talk about moving him? I've read the scouting reports on him and I've seen him on TV during the CWS. He's a 1B or a DH. We either move Joey to LF or we use Alonzo as trade bait. Don't waste the energy on a 3rd base experiment. I like the leadership intangibles that I see in Votto so I'd like to keep him around.

I wonder if the Reds have ever thought about Votto as a catcher ;)

HokieRed
08-22-2008, 12:41 PM
I think we need to get past the point where we're willing to move a player at the expense of defense. For me, that means Votto plays 1b or maybe LF. Alonso plays 1b. Alonso hasn't gotten one minor league hit as yet so I think it's premature to be imagining timetables for him at the moment. The primary issue is what to do with EE. He needs to be moved, IMO, but the only place you can move him to is one of the two premium power spots on the field--LF or 1b--and the guy you've got at the other one--Votto--is probably only going to be average, at best, in power for those positions. So I'd draw four immediate conclusions from this: 1. Play Adam Rosales every day the rest of the way (not at third, just somewhere) to start to see if he can be your 3baseman; 2. Move Dorn to Louisville for the rest of the season to see if he can be all or part of the solution in LF and when; 3. Bump Frazier up to AA and decide, ASAP, whether he's the longer term solution at 3b; 4. Start looking for a package deal and a trading partner for some combination of your best assets that will bring a package of assets that fits better with what we have in the system--this would involve EE, probably Phillips, maybe Arroyo, and one or more of the pitching prospects.

Sea Ray
08-22-2008, 01:11 PM
Until I see a better 3B than EE I'm OK with leaving him there. That's not an easy position to fill. Just ask the Cubs, post Ron Santo. If we decide to trade EE, that's fine. At this point I think he's our best option there. We've got too many other candidates for LF. It's not like EE's bat is George Foster and we just have to get his stick in the lineup

camisadelgolf
08-23-2008, 12:59 AM
One thing I want to throw out there: Edwin Encarnacion is only 25 years old. He's younger than a lot of the Reds' current prospects.