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OnBaseMachine
08-16-2008, 06:47 PM
More Alonso
Posted by JohnFay at 8/16/2008 4:44 PM EDT on Cincinnati.com

Talked to Walt Jocketty about Yonder Alonso today. Two things:

--They think he'll be ready in the 2010. "He thinks he's ready now," Jocketty said. "I like that."

--The Reds will consider moving Joey Votto to the outfield. Left is the obvious spot. Alonso will work out at third base as well as first.

Was it a good signing? It depends on how Alonso turns out. I think he has the potential to be a Lance Berkman type -- a good hitter with power and a great on-base percentage. His on-base was .534 this year. The Reds need more hitters like that. This team is terrible at running up pitch counts.

But it's a huge step from college to the majors. We saw that with Brandon Larson, who the Reds took over Berkman by the way.

Here's the details on the contract:

--$2 million signing bonus. $1.5 million paid at approval. $500,000 paid June 15, 2009.

--$50,000 in salary for the rest of this season.

--$400,000 in 2009; $500,000 in 2010; $600,000 in 2011; $1 million in 2012.

--Tuition payments of three semesters at $26,000 each ($20,000-tuition; $6,000 expenses.)

--Family trip to Major League Debut

--Bonus money: $25,000 Rookie of the year; $100,000 MVP; $25,000 Gold Glove; $100,000 World Series MVP; $50,000 League Champion Series MVP; $25,000 Silver Slugger; $50,000 All-Star MVP; $25,000 All-Star selection.

--2012 may be voided if he has enough Major League service time to qualify for arbitration.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3afd413d67-bccf-439e-92c4-52e6e7b84e96&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

RedsManRick
08-16-2008, 06:56 PM
He looks a lot more like Youkilis than Berkman to me;Both offensively and defensively.

reds44
08-16-2008, 07:01 PM
Well if you move Votto to LF, then you need to sign a stop gap first baseman in the offseason (or move EE to 1B). If you move EE to 1B, then you need to sign an everyday 3rd baseman. If Chris Dickerson proves he can play everyday it will take a big burden off of the Reds front office going into the offseason.

mth123
08-16-2008, 07:08 PM
Well if you move Votto to LF, then you need to sign a stop gap first baseman in the offseason (or move EE to 1B). If you move EE to 1B, then you need to sign an everyday 3rd baseman. If Chris Dickerson proves he can play everyday it will take a big burden off of the Reds front office going into the offseason.

Move Votto to LF, EE to 1B and Sign Joe Crede. Then deal EE when Alonso is ready.

I move Votto ASAP and get the learning curve out of the way. I'd play him in LF tonight with Dickerson in CF, EE a 1B and Rosales and Kepp splitting 1B the rest of the way (with maybe Alonso in September???). I don't really like exposing the staff like that, but get it out now when the games mean little. Call up some fodder to absorb the innings. Matt Belisle and Adam Pettyjohn for example.

reds44
08-16-2008, 07:09 PM
Move Votto to LF, EE to 1B and Sign Joe Crede. Then deal EE when Alonso is ready.

I move Votto ASAP and get the learning curve out of the way. I'd play him in LF tonight with Dickerson in CF, EE a 1B and Rosales and Kepp splitting 1B the rest of the way (with maybe Alonso in September???). I don't really like exposing the staff like that, but get it out now when the games mean little. Call up some fodder to absorb the innings. Matt Belisle and Adam Pettyjohn for example.
I want no part of Joe Crede, his back, his inconsistent bat, and his inconsistent glove. Joe Crede is an older, more expensive, more fragile version of Edwin Encarnacion.

RedsManRick
08-16-2008, 07:19 PM
I want no part of Joe Crede, his back, his inconsistent bat, and his inconsistent glove. Joe Crede is an older, more expensive, more fragile version of Edwin Encarnacion.

Agreed. If you're going to go in to FA, at least get somebody who can't get internally. Any bat acquired in FA needs to be impact level -- Teixeira, Burrell, Dunn, Bradley, Ramirez.

Here's an idea that won't happen: Brian Giles. Word is that the Padres are leaning towards not exercising his option. He's still solid defensively, especially if in LF. He gets on base a ton and his power should rebound in Cincy. I'd only give him 1 year with a team option, as he's getting up there. But there are many worse stop gaps out there.

reds44
08-16-2008, 07:31 PM
Not saying I disagree with you on Giles, but he just veto'd a deal to Boston because he wanted to say close to his family.

RedsManRick
08-16-2008, 07:35 PM
Not saying I disagree with you on Giles, but he just veto'd a deal to Boston because he wanted to say close to his family.

Yeah. If the Padres don't take him back, I could even see him retiring. Seems like a guy pretty content with his career. Only the A's have openings in the OF among the teams in the southwest if he wants to stay in the region.

mth123
08-16-2008, 08:01 PM
Agreed. If you're going to go in to FA, at least get somebody who can't get internally. Any bat acquired in FA needs to be impact level -- Teixeira, Burrell, Dunn, Bradley, Ramirez.

Here's an idea that won't happen: Brian Giles. Word is that the Padres are leaning towards not exercising his option. He's still solid defensively, especially if in LF. He gets on base a ton and his power should rebound in Cincy. I'd only give him 1 year with a team option, as he's getting up there. But there are many worse stop gaps out there.

But I didn't think those 8 Figure per season deals were an option. If so, I'm hoping for Dunn coming back. Why trade him if you're going to pay 1 guy that much? I thought the plan was to spread it around on various mediocrities that $4 to $5 Million per year buys these days. At least Crede would help achieve some other goals like moving Votto off of 1B to clear the way for Alonso down the road and getting EdE off of 3B.

Seriously, I do think getting EdE off of 3B may help his bat. He seems to carry his miscues around with him. Maybe relieving him of the burden will improve his offense. I also believe that the 2009 OF will be Votto, Dickerson and Bruce with the RH bench guys (Hairston, Freel, Hopper) filling in for the LH starters and resting a couple of them against lefty pitchers.

If Alonso is really the plan for 2010, the Reds probably won't want to give out a multi-year deal anyway and a guy like Crede would probably want more than 1 year. I'm guessing a guy like Kevin Millar to add a RH bat and good clubhouse rep might be a guy they would target. I don't buy into chemistry as much as most do, but the team has stated a desire to change the atmosphere and Millar has that reputation. He somewhat fits the job despcription (RH bat with some pop to play 1B until Alonso is ready) and would probably be a cheap one year signing. We all likely want some one better, but I don't see the team blocking Alonso with a long term commitment that some one better would probably require. Jocketty said that Votto and EdE are "untouchable" so I don't think trading them is in the plan (though I'd deal EdE to improve C, SS and/or the rotation)

Far East
08-16-2008, 09:31 PM
If the OF is Votto, Dickerson, and Bruce, (and eventually possibly adding the LH bat of Alonzo at 1B) then all other positions need to be RH batters.

Degenerate39
08-16-2008, 09:35 PM
If the OF is Votto, Dickerson, and Bruce, (and eventually possibly adding the LH bat of Alonzo at 1B) then all other positions need to be RH batters.

Phillips is right handed
Keppinger and Hairston are right handed
Edwin is right handed
Hanigan is right handed

flyer85
08-16-2008, 09:36 PM
all rather premature at the moment

Caveat Emperor
08-16-2008, 09:47 PM
all rather premature at the moment

Not really. You want to planning for the future -- letting Votto get some ML experience in left field helps open up multiple option for 2009 and beyond.

_Sir_Charles_
08-16-2008, 09:57 PM
Well if you move Votto to LF, then you need to sign a stop gap first baseman in the offseason (or move EE to 1B). If you move EE to 1B, then you need to sign an everyday 3rd baseman. If Chris Dickerson proves he can play everyday it will take a big burden off of the Reds front office going into the offseason.

This is pretty close to what I called a few months ago. Votto to LF, Edwin to 1B, Rosales 3B (if dusty would've actually played him maybe you guys would agree with me on that one).

If they keep Phillips at 2nd, then Kepp/Janish man SS for now. I'd prefer it if Phillips went to SS and Kepp filled in at 2B until Valiaka is ready for 2B.

LF-Votto
CF-Dickerson
RF-Bruce
3B-Rosales
SS-Phillips
2B-Keppinger (Valiaka once ready)
1B-Edwin (Alonso once ready)
C-Hannigan

I'd be MORE than happy with that. By the time Soto's ready for SS, I think that'll be about when we'll be ready to deal Phillips.

jojo
08-16-2008, 10:58 PM
This is pretty close to what I called a few months ago. Votto to LF, Edwin to 1B, Rosales 3B (if dusty would've actually played him maybe you guys would agree with me on that one).

If they keep Phillips at 2nd, then Kepp/Janish man SS for now. I'd prefer it if Phillips went to SS and Kepp filled in at 2B until Valiaka is ready for 2B.

LF-Votto
CF-Dickerson
RF-Bruce
3B-Rosales
SS-Phillips
2B-Keppinger (Valiaka once ready)
1B-Edwin (Alonso once ready)
C-Hannigan

I'd be MORE than happy with that. By the time Soto's ready for SS, I think that'll be about when we'll be ready to deal Phillips.

Phillips is a good second baseman but he'd be less interesting as a shortstop. To me Rosales is a long shot to be an everyday major leaguer. Also, the only way I'd move Votto off of first would be if it was forced by someone else kicking a hole in the sky. I think the best compromise is the fewest ones. Either get a leftfielder or move EE to left because you get a better third baseman or if you want to stay young, try and finagle a guy like a Neil Walker from the Pirates given they have LaRoche in their fold.

Jpup
08-17-2008, 02:10 PM
leave Votto at first. Keep Alonso until he's ready and then trade him for something really good.

Team Clark
08-17-2008, 06:23 PM
I heard this rumor a few weeks ago. I made mention of it in another post. Seems to me it is a stronger possibility than many will give credit for. If Dickerson performs in LF then I see no reason for Votto to even sniff the OF. As good as Alonso's hand are I wouldn't mind seeing him at 3B. Just hope he's not like a Jim Thome type of 3B.

mth123
08-17-2008, 06:39 PM
I heard this rumor a few weeks ago. I made mention of it in another post. Seems to me it is a stronger possibility than many will give credit for. If Dickerson performs in LF then I see no reason for Votto to even sniff the OF. As good as Alonso's hand are I wouldn't mind seeing him at 3B. Just hope he's not like a Jim Thome type of 3B.

So if Dickerson looks good in LF and Votto stays at 1B, who plays CF?

GAC
08-17-2008, 07:17 PM
Well if you move Votto to LF, then you need to sign a stop gap first baseman in the offseason

That one yr "stop gap" at 1B may be Valentin. ;)

If, as a GM, you're going with youth and entering a developmental stage that began this year in August, and may go through the '09 season, then why go out and spend money on someone when you can have an in-house solution for a year? And who would want to come here, especially anyone of worth that is, if they knew they were going to be a temp solution, holding down the fort for this Alonso kid?


(or move EE to 1B). If you move EE to 1B, then you need to sign an everyday 3rd baseman.

EE needs to be worried IMO. I have no idea what Walt's plans are for this Alonso kid; but it could be 3B. Walt "hearts" defense. ;)

WVRedsFan
08-17-2008, 07:37 PM
So if Dickerson looks good in LF and Votto stays at 1B, who plays CF?

Don't go there. Do the initials CP mean anything to you?

KronoRed
08-17-2008, 07:44 PM
Don't go there. Do the initials CP mean anything to you?

The Horror?

GAC
08-17-2008, 08:58 PM
Don't go there. Do the initials CP mean anything to you?

Hey! Don't be surprised if CPatt is not retained, or at least invited to ST next year, as an option in CF due to his defense. Wouldn't put it past Dusty to want to do it unless Walt really makes a serious effort to go after someone in the off-season.

And again - since we are seeing a youth movement (or experiment) going on, I just don't see Walt spending a lot of money on an established CFer if he is attempting to build something internally with youth. I could possibly see him going after, or at least trying to, if it's someone of youth (under 30), and who would prove to be viable for several years. But not say a vet like a Brian Giles or Reggie Sanders type.

RFS62
08-17-2008, 09:13 PM
Hey! Don't be surprised if CPatt is not retained, or at least invited to ST next year, as an option in CF due to his defense.



Maybe we could get Dusty's daughter to rework her contract and take Corey to AAA with her.

Mario-Rijo
08-18-2008, 01:33 PM
I heard this rumor a few weeks ago. I made mention of it in another post. Seems to me it is a stronger possibility than many will give credit for. If Dickerson performs in LF then I see no reason for Votto to even sniff the OF. As good as Alonso's hand are I wouldn't mind seeing him at 3B. Just hope he's not like a Jim Thome type of 3B.

I gotta disagree with ya a bit here TC. I only saw a handful of Alonso's games (mostly CWS and a couple games before) but I saw him whiff on a couple of catches I think most "good hands" types would have easily caught. I suppose It could have been I just caught him at a bad time or something but It was enough for me to question just how good defensively he is/can be on either corner, let alone one where he has to react superiorly to any other position on the field.

I just don't envision him as the answer at 3rd in way, shape or form.

Ltlabner
08-18-2008, 01:35 PM
Don't go there. Do the initials CP mean anything to you?

Yes.

They mean I'll be stabbing myself in the eye with a fork.

flyer85
08-18-2008, 01:38 PM
I'd like to see him at something other than PH for now

Big Klu
08-18-2008, 03:43 PM
Don't go there. Do the initials CP mean anything to you?

Carson Palmer? :D

Team Clark
08-18-2008, 03:48 PM
I gotta disagree with ya a bit here TC. I only saw a handful of Alonso's games (mostly CWS and a couple games before) but I saw him whiff on a couple of catches I think most "good hands" types would have easily caught. I suppose It could have been I just caught him at a bad time or something but It was enough for me to question just how good defensively he is/can be on either corner, let alone one where he has to react superiorly to any other position on the field.

I just don't envision him as the answer at 3rd in way, shape or form.

You could be right. I really need to see the kid in person before drawing a conclusion. I keep "hearing" that he has great hands but I need to see it for myself. Maybe you caught him at a bad time. Maybe you didn't. Hopefully he will get to Dayton soon enough so I can see first hand. Good observation Mario.

I truly do not envision him as a 3B either.

gm
08-18-2008, 06:50 PM
Walt "hearts" defense. ;)

Exactly, which is why I'm surprised to hear him contemplate moving Votto to LF

I remember making a similar comment when WJ took over (that he values defense...) and I speculated that Dunn and EdE were going to be the most obvious candidates for change. (besides Junior, goes without saying, perhaps I should've added Ross to that list?)

Shortly thereafter, the streaky EdE started raking and someone argued against my suggestion to "sell him high" (as the Cowboy would say "how do you like me, now?")

Well, Adam is gone and unless EdE can hit well/consistently enough to play LF/1b (does anyone really believe he can?) he'll be on the way out, as well