PDA

View Full Version : What to do with Harang



LincolnparkRed
08-16-2008, 11:45 PM
Do you let him continue to go out there and get his brains beat in or do you let him go on the DL for the last month and a half and tell him to get everything checked out?

I take the later, no pitcher that looked that good last year, could suddenly be this bad right? I have a hard time coming up with a good parellel career arc but maybe someone can help me with that. If he is not injured, though what does that do for next year? Now you need at least two starters to go with Voloquez, Cueto and Arroyo. Plus a catcher, and at least one outfielder, but really two.

Walt and Bavasi really have their work cut out for them.

Maybe dusty can get us one year of Moises Alou, since he is such a great free agent recruiter.

Wheelhouse
08-16-2008, 11:53 PM
I hang Harang up for the year.

Homer Bailey
08-16-2008, 11:57 PM
I hang Harang up for the year.

Might need him for an extra innings game though.

RFS62
08-16-2008, 11:59 PM
If it's not physical, is shutting him down the best idea?

It might be physical, I don't know.

I do know we have to have someone up here to throw innings if he's shut down.

Raisor
08-17-2008, 12:00 AM
I do know we have to have someone up here to throw innings if he's shut down.

I'm available. I can get my brains beat in just as well as anyone.

CTA513
08-17-2008, 12:03 AM
It depends on if he's still hurt or just needs work.
If he's hurt then put him on the DL, if he needs work then talk to him about going to the minors to work some things out like the Phillies did with Brett Myers.

WVRedsFan
08-17-2008, 12:11 AM
He claims it's not physical, and after hearing him tonight on the post-game, I believe him. He says it's command and I think he's right. Shutting him down might do more damage than letting him work through this. The Reds aren't going to win anything this year anyway. The Reds have a rookie at first, another in left or center and another behind the plate, not to mention two starting pitchers in their first full year. IF they're sure it's not physical, let him pitch. It's not as if there is anything better to put in his place. If it is physical, that's another matter.

Krusty
08-17-2008, 12:45 AM
I would shut him down for the year. What is there to prove at this point?

Big Klu
08-17-2008, 12:45 AM
He claims it's not physical, and after hearing him tonight on the post-game, I believe him. He says it's command and I think he's right. Shutting him down might do more damage than letting him work through this. The Reds aren't going to win anything this year anyway. The Reds have a rookie at first, another in left or center and another behind the plate, not to mention two starting pitchers in their first full year. IF they're sure it's not physical, let him pitch. It's not as if there is anything better to put in his place. If it is physical, that's another matter.

I think he's right about the problem being command. He wasn't hitting his spots at all. On the pitch that Schumaker hit for a home run, Hanigan set up on the outside corner at the knees, and had to lunge to the inside, where the ball was belt high on the inside corner.

RedsManRick
08-17-2008, 12:48 AM
Shut him down. Livingston is back, right?

Spitball
08-17-2008, 01:19 AM
His command was a definate problem, but he was certainly lacking velocity. He was in the mid to upper 80's. There is a problem, and I believe it is physical.

Kc61
08-17-2008, 01:56 AM
Harang just took an MRI which reportedly was normal except for the forearm thing. He says he feels good. I guess I don't understand the point of shutting him down in mid August.

If it were me, I'd probably send Harang on another rehab assignment and let him pitch in the minor leagues for a couple of starts. See if he gets sharper. Then see where we are.

Harang missed a lot of time, he needs to build up his arm strength and his command. I don't see how that gets accomplished on the sidelines.

kaldaniels
08-17-2008, 02:43 AM
The easy answer, as many have said is shut him down.

However, if he is cleared medically and the MRI checks out...it is very possible that it could just be a mechanical issue.

Due diligence must be done. Talk to Aaron. Talk to the medical staff. Take a look at the videotapes, etc.... Then, come to the best conclusion based on all the information you have complied. None of us have all that info, so the best we can do is speculate.

Something is wrong with Aaron, I don't dispute that. However, if it is mechanical, I'd rather have him work thru the kinks now as compared to doing it next season. Shutting him down now could result in him starting off next season behind schedule, i.e. there is/could be a drawback to shutting him down.

OnBaseMachine
08-17-2008, 02:46 AM
Harang now has a 9.00+ ERA since his relief appearance. Ouch.

Jpup
08-17-2008, 03:07 AM
No way Harang is not hurt. Shut him down and get the problem fixed.

Caveat Emperor
08-17-2008, 04:03 AM
Harang now has a 9.00+ ERA since his relief appearance. Ouch.

Craziest thing about all this is that his relief appearance was one of the most dominating performance I've ever seen by a starter pitching in an extra-inning game.

lollipopcurve
08-17-2008, 08:46 AM
The guy can't throw a breaking ball any more. If you watched him late in the game yesterday, he was throwing 90% fastballs (88-90mph) and the couple of breaking balls he tried to throw were not in the home plate zip code.

I say there's an injury. They should shut him down, whether they can identify the problem or not.

traderumor
08-17-2008, 09:39 AM
The troublesome thing to me is that he was struggling mightily before the relief appearance that so many want to point to as his demise. I recall that the reason he was available for that relief appearance is because he had gotten beaten around in the Thursday night game. And his previous starts had been very unlike Harang's norm, as well.

In other words, he has not pitched well all year, overall, not just since the relief appearance.

As for shutting him down, those were my words watching it last night.

Chip R
08-17-2008, 09:52 AM
The troublesome thing to me is that he was struggling mightily before the relief appearance that so many want to point to as his demise. I recall that the reason he was available for that relief appearance is because he had gotten beaten around in the Thursday night game. And his previous starts had been very unlike Harang's norm, as well.

In other words, he has not pitched well all year, overall, not just since the relief appearance.


He pitched just fine earlier in the year. The Reds weren't scoring any runs for him but up until 3-4 starts before that S.D. game he was the Harang we all know and love.

mbgrayson
08-17-2008, 10:38 AM
I know that location has a lot to do with it too, but his velocity is down. The three homers on 8/16/08 were all on fastballs, 91 mph to Shumaker, 87 mph to Pujols, and 89 mph to Ludwick. (Info from Gameday (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2008_08_16_slnmlb_cinmlb_1&mode=gameday)).

Yesterday, Harang's fastball speed topped out at 93, with the great majority being 89-91 mph. He does seem to be throwing more fastballs than he used to...

Az Red
08-17-2008, 11:20 AM
Pitch through it.

membengal
08-17-2008, 12:47 PM
Same as I was saying when this first cropped up, shut him down.

Lost year, let his arm get some rest.

OldXOhio
08-17-2008, 01:11 PM
How about shutting him down so he doesn't lose 20

OldXOhio
08-17-2008, 01:20 PM
The troublesome thing to me is that he was struggling mightily before the relief appearance that so many want to point to as his demise. I recall that the reason he was available for that relief appearance is because he had gotten beaten around in the Thursday night game. And his previous starts had been very unlike Harang's norm, as well.

In other words, he has not pitched well all year, overall, not just since the relief appearance.

As for shutting him down, those were my words watching it last night.

IIRC, he was cruising in that Thurs night game up until the 4th-5th inning when things started going south. He then came back in his relief appearance and pitched as well as he has all year.

Harang had pitched well the first 6 weeks of the season but had a bad record due to run support. I think Aaron started pressing in May knowing he needed a sub 2.00 ERA just to have a chance. Throw in the extra appearance in the Padres series in May and I think you have a combination of a fatigue, a minor medical condition and a mental rut he just couldn't get out of. I'd think shutting him down and preparing for a better 2009 would be in order.

harangatang
08-18-2008, 02:04 AM
How about shutting him down so he doesn't lose 20Does anyone know if 2 separate pitchers have won and lost 20 games on the same staff in the same year? Harang would have to lose 7 more games this season which might be a stretch, especially if "command issues" really means that his arm is falling off. Not to mention Volquez would have to win 5 more on a terrible team.

Big Klu
08-18-2008, 03:13 AM
Does anyone know if 2 separate pitchers have won and lost 20 games on the same staff in the same year? Harang would have to lose 7 more games this season which might be a stretch, especially if "command issues" really means that his arm is falling off. Not to mention Volquez would have to win 5 more on a terrible team.

I don't know about two different pitchers (I figure it has probably happened), but Phil Niekro was both a 20-game winner and a 20-game loser in 1979. He was 21-20, and tied his brother Joe for the most wins in the NL. (Joe was 21-11 with the Astros that year.)

remdog
08-18-2008, 03:21 AM
I know that location has a lot to do with it too, but his velocity is down. The three homers on 8/16/08 were all on fastballs, 91 mph to Shumaker, 87 mph to Pujols, and 89 mph to Ludwick. (Info from Gameday (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2008_08_16_slnmlb_cinmlb_1&mode=gameday)).

Yesterday, Harang's fastball speed topped out at 93, with the great majority being 89-91 mph. He does seem to be throwing more fastballs than he used to...

That's been his range for his career with the Reds.

Team Clark shed some light on Aaron's problems with this post: http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71193

Rem